Pre-season training - 2016

[Mantis]

I did that ride (Along the Great Ocean Road to Skeene's Creek and then the climb) as part of the Amy Gillette ride a few years back.. Beautiful countryside and the views from the top of the climb are great.. I'm sure the lungs would have been empty afterwards.

[bornadog]

It was a joke mate!

so was my comment ;)

[bornadog]

Footage on westernbulldogs.com.au shows participants included Roarke Smith (great to see) and Luke Beveridge (what a champ he is, probably snuck in a quick surf between legs).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CWuUnLAU4AE6NE0.jpg:large

[Go_Dogs]

Someone better tell Bevo he didn't get picked up in the draft (I'm certainly not prepared to break it to him).

[bornadog]

Someone better tell Bevo he didn't get picked up in the draft (I'm certainly not prepared to break it to him).

Bevo ran not cycled:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xlf1/v/t1.0-9/1916698_10153766842487487_6484899250058447830_n.jpg?oh=b7ab3 711749f6bf75dadfd443a6d0978&oe=570D7B1A&__gda__=1460615809_c7cade7404d7b1639be07015af152fe3


quote from Easton Wood


You'd think that would stop him from cracking jokes wouldn't you? But it doesn't. Like for for example, while I was riding, I nearly rode in to a street sign because I was looking at nice ocean in the distance, and Bevo was like "I bet you didn't sea that coming, did you?" He thought it was hilarious.

[Bulldog4life]

Someone better tell Bevo he didn't get picked up in the draft (I'm certainly not prepared to break it to him).

When talking to Bevo he told me he was very unhappy when given the flick from the doggies as a player.He said the recruitment of Romero meant there was no room on the list for him. He said he felt he was just starting to play his best footy.....then we were interrupted by the CEO and he had to give a speech.

[Mofra]

quote from Easton Wood
That's a parody account. Check the other quotes on the account, not bad stuff

[Twodogs]

That's a parody account. Check the other quotes on the account, not bad stuff

Have you got the link please? I can only find his real account.

[bornadog]

Have you got the link please? I can only find his real account.

Being Easton Wood

[Cyberdoggie]

That's an outstanding kit. They should just wear that in the season proper.

Yeah it would look good in a professional cycling team in the TDF I think. Much better than some of the teams that race that is for sure. There are teams with brown and teal with polka dots, and some horrid colours.

The only problem is that it's a little bit similar to U.S. Postal of Lance Armstrong fame.

[bornadog]

Yeah it would look good in a professional cycling team in the TDF I think. Much better than some of the teams that race that is for sure. There are teams with brown and teal with polka dots, and some horrid colours.

The only problem is that it's a little bit similar to U.S. Postal of Lance Armstrong fame.

http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/2012/11/02/2/bettiniphoto_0000991_1_full_600.jpg

[LostDoggy]

Quite a few AFL clubs took this week off, whilst we're on the Great Ocean Road as a big group with Tour De France cyclists working hard and bonding with the new guys. Just another little inch in advance of a number of our opponents.


Love it.

[Mantis]

Quite a few AFL clubs took this week off, whilst we're on the Great Ocean Road as a big group with Tour De France cyclists working hard and bonding with the new guys. Just another little inch in advance of a number of our opponents.

Love it.

Heard Guy McKenna on SEN yesterday morning talk about when Chris Judd first started at WC.. Said that whilst everyone was on Xmas break Judd would be working the hardest as he knew everyone else would be slacking off and he knew he could get an advantage on the rest of the competition.. Scott West & Matthew Boyd (amongst others) live by this philosphy too.

[Mofra]

Scott West & Matthew Boyd (amongst others) live by this philosphy too.
Westy's old quote - "it's easier to stay fit than get fit"

When the boys used to head from WO to Skinner West used to treat it as a time trial and run there as fast as he could. Absolute freak.

[Twodogs]

Westy's old quote - "it's easier to stay fit than get fit"

When the boys used to head from WO to Skinner West used to treat it as a time trial and run there as fast as he could. Absolute freak.


He couldn't sleep after being runner up in the Brownlow so got his push bike out in the middle of the night and rode from Keilor to Hanging Rock to the Shrine.

[LostDoggy]

Horrible to read of the homes lost to bushfires in the Lorne/Wye River area today - a cruel Christmas for many families.

Quite eerie looking back at those cycling photos from earlier in the week, must've been pretty much where the fires hit.

[GVGjr]

Horrible to read of the homes lost to bushfires in the Lorne/Wye River area today - a cruel Christmas for many families.

Quite eerie looking back at those cycling photos from earlier in the week, must've been pretty much where the fires hit.

For many years when I was young we used to holiday in Wye River. We would spend nearly all on December and January there plus most other school holidays. Fond memories of many of the area's that have been subjected to these bush fires.

[S Coast Simon]

Heard a story of the new owner of the Lorne Foodworks giving the keys to the store to the fire brigade and telling them to help themselves to anything they need. What an absolute champion. He then got a $500 dollar award for his generosity and donated that the the fire brigade as well. We should all shop there if in Lorne

[F'scary]

Can anyone help me with the training times for this week and next week? The Club's website page on preseason training is vague and perhaps not up to date.

[ledge]

Not sure they are back until next week

[LostDoggy]

Saw some photos of Mitch Wallis and Tom Boyd doing extra sprint work at Sorrento during their down time. Great to see Boyd doing the extra work - if he takes big strides this year our forward line will be hard to stop.

Would love to know if Mitch initiated these sessions, taking it upon himself to give Boyd every chance to really break through this year. Wouldn't surprise at all, such an outstanding young leader.

[F'scary]

Mitch would be a pretty good choice to train with - he is studying sports science at VU as well.

[Eastdog]

Can anyone help me with the training times for this week and next week? The Club's website page on preseason training is vague and perhaps not up to date.

Im pretty sure they are back from this week but not 100% sure F'scary.

[GVGjr]

Can anyone help me with the training times for this week and next week? The Club's website page on preseason training is vague and perhaps not up to date.

I'd phone the club to check but if they are back (and I think they are) then Monday and Thursday's are closed sessions and other days are okay.

[F'scary]

think I'll do that GVGjr, although I have had mixed results getting people to answer the phone in the Summer in the few attempts I have made over the past 10 years.

[GVGjr]

think I'll do that GVGjr, although I have had mixed results getting people to answer the phone in the Summer in the few attempts I have made over the past 10 years.

Just checked the HUN and it would appear they will be back next week. I'd still check with the club though.

[Twodogs]

As an old hand training is a lot different this year. More closed sessions. Most of the morning sessions are closed.

[Greystache]

As an old hand training is a lot different this year. More closed sessions. Most of the morning sessions are closed.

And when it is open it's little more than a warm up run, and even then it's not on at the advertised time. Trying to attend training is a pretty pointless exercise this year unfortunately.

[Twodogs]

And when it is open it's little more than a warm up run, and even then it's not on at the advertised time. Trying to attend training is a pretty pointless exercise this year unfortunately.


I don't mind if there is a dividend on field. I don't see how you can conceal training at Whitten Oval completely from someone hell bent on seeing it but I assume they have anticipated that problem and come up with a plan.

[F'scary]

Bevo must be worried that Talia is lurking around.

[Mantis]

Spotted the North boys riding along Beach Rd on Saturday morning, a few things I noticed:

* They were wearing training singlets, we wear designer cycling uniforms - We win.

* Beach Rd - meh... We cycle along the Great Ocean Rd. - We win.

* I passed a number of them and I'm very much an amateur rider, no chance I'd pass our boys - We win again.

[LostDoggy]

Bevo must be worried that Talia is lurking around.

He'd make a crap spy - he'd film everything and inexplicably lose the phone :)

[soupman]

Spotted the North boys riding along Beach Rd on Saturday morning, a few things I noticed:

* They were wearing training singlets, we wear designer cycling uniforms - We win.

* Beach Rd - meh... We cycle along the Great Ocean Rd. - We win.

* I passed a number of them and I'm very much an amateur rider, no chance I'd pass our boys - We win again.

On this Matt Boyd posted on Instagram a couple of days ago a large contingent of our players riding in full Dogs lycra gear in the kinglake area. Tagged were Roarke Smith, Fletcher Roberts, Lin Jong, Jordan Roughead, Daniel Giansiracusa, Jed Adcock and Zaine Cordy.

[bornadog]

The next open training session at Victoria University Whitten Oval will be on Tuesday 12 January 2016, commencing at 1:30pm (approx), and Saturday 16 January 2016, commencing at 8:30am (approx). Both sessions will be approximately one hour in duration.


For the duration of preseason, Monday and Thursday training sessions at VU Whitten Oval will be closed to the public until further notice.

[Greystache]

I don't mind if there is a dividend on field. I don't see how you can conceal training at Whitten Oval completely from someone hell bent on seeing it but I assume they have anticipated that problem and come up with a plan.

With the fence around the ground all they need to do is lock the gates and the door at Barkers cafe, roll down the blinds, and no one can get access without trying to scale the 10 foot fence. It wouldn't be hard to pick out the couple of people who went to that length.

[Twodogs]

Or they could sit up on the grass hill of mt mistake and watch from there. That's one of the things I hope they have foreseen.

[F'scary]

Been thinking about it, Bevo must have plenty on the agenda: the new interchange rules; rule tweaks around protecting players; 2nd ruck arrangements; repertoire (new defensive and offensive tactics).

While it is sad not to be able to wander down and watch the lads go through their paces this preseason, I appreciate that we have a coach who seems to know how to innovate and implement on-field change in a team (it is a rare gift) and wants to preserve the element of surprise for the crucial early season assault.

[Torpedo]

Woofers could always chip in for a drone with a camera and watch a live feed of training - as long as its not too windy, from stories I've heard about drones going astray after Xmas. But then again, how many calm days does the WO experience? Not many from my years of watching games there.

[Cyberdoggie]

Woofers could always chip in for a drone with a camera and watch a live feed of training - as long as its not too windy, from stories I've heard about drones going astray after Xmas. But then again, how many calm days does the WO experience? Not many from my years of watching games there.

You can't see much unless you get fairly close, and I think they would notice a drone buzzing 20m over their heads. :)

[Axe Man]

You can't see much unless you get fairly close, and I think they would notice a drone buzzing 20m over their heads. :)

Trying to hit a drone with a footy sounds like good training for the boys, should really sharpen up their foot skills.

[LostDoggy]

Was talking to somebody who attended training today. Was very taken with Josh Dunkley, said he moved like a natural through the drills, had sharp skills, looks physically developed and was very vocal in a positive way. Thought he carried himself like someone ready to go.

[ledge]

Was talking to somebody who attended training today. Was very taken with Josh Dunkley, said he moved like a natural through the drills, had sharp skills, looks physically developed and was very vocal in a positive way. Thought he carried himself like someone ready to go.

Since Jason Mc Cartney came in that's the only kind of player we have recruited, driven and wanting to win kids.
If the attitude is wrong we won't draft them.

[LostDoggy]

Whilst I certainty understand and acknowledge the decision to hold these closed sessions, are these hit and giggle open training sessions that we're being able to attend actually hurting the club financially?

Are we potentially missing out on memberships? I'm sure I speak for a large number of members and non-members when I say reading detailed training reports this time of year really gets the juices flowing. Or being able to see Stringer, Bont and our new recruit Libba going 100% and looking a millions dollars would be enough to convince fence sitters to jump on-board.

We may get thumped by 8 goals Round 1 and those fence sitters decide to hold off for another year.

Bevo is obviously working on a few things and I applaud that, but surely we could still get at least one session a fortnight that we get access to all players and a decent hit out at training, not just the light jobbing and autograph signing which is being currently served up.

[Twodogs]

What sort of crowd are they getting at open training? I haven't been to one yet.

[ledge]

Whilst I certainty understand and acknowledge the decision to hold these closed sessions, are these hit and giggle open training sessions that we're being able to attend actually hurting the club financially?

Are we potentially missing out on memberships? I'm sure I speak for a large number of members and non-members when I say reading detailed training reports this time of year really gets the juices flowing. Or being able to see Stringer, Bont and our new recruit Libba going 100% and looking a millions dollars would be enough to convince fence sitters to jump on-board.

We may get thumped by 8 goals Round 1 and those fence sitters decide to hold off for another year.

Bevo is obviously working on a few things and I applaud that, but surely we could still get at least one session a fortnight that we get access to all players and a decent hit out at training, not just the light jobbing and autograph signing which is being currently served up.
Light jobbing ?? Each other or supporters included ? Now I'm worried ;-)

[Dry Rot]

Anyone go to training today?

[Twodogs]

Anyone go to training today?


Some body did. I was driving home from Footscray and had to stop at the zebra crossing while some supporters walked across.

[Smads57]

Anyone go to training today?

I went this morning DR and was mainly interested in the following:

1. players in rehab
a) Redpath, Prudden, Roberts, Biggs and R Smith - straight line run thrus only
b) Zordy, Hunter, Minson, Wood, C Smith - handball drills only
c) Jong, Bonti - straight line kicking drills with the main group for around half the session only. Bonti looked comfortable (had the binoculars on him - didn't appear to be labouring/grimacing with any of the activities)

2. new recruits
Good builds on Collins, Adams, Dunkley (as expected) and capable in the drills practiced.
Williams worked well as did Lynch, but the latter's body is significantly smaller than any other player (incl Hamilton who I consider still slightly built).
Suckling and Adcock looked like seasoned footballers (Suckers left cannon on show in a couple of the kicking drills)

3. recent recruits
Toyd had one shoulder strapped (he had this strapped on Tuesday as well), but didn't seem to be compromised and joined in all the drills.
Magic had his left shoulder strapped and had heavy strapping around his right knee, but he took part in all drills and didn't look troubled (I was more troubled....).
CD, Webby, Dale all look bigger and more comfortable with the drills. Hamilton continues to show he is clever, but doesn't seem to exude the same confidence as the other 2nd year players (yet).

Jose Romero's eldest boy trained as well. I spoke briefly to Jose who said his son would be playing with Calder this year. He is small but solid enough for a teenager his size.

4. Libba
Trained right thru and looked really comfortable. In one drill a player was potentially about to tackle him until Rohan Smith called out 'dont tackle' and Libba played thru and kicked a simulated goal which the other players around him cheered. Clearly they are still wary of his ACL injury.

The training session went from around 8.40 to 10.15 with the players signing autographs for the few supporters present.

The session started with the player's completing drills that required them kicking with their opposite foot, and finished with simple simulated matchplay (no tackling) in two groups at either end of the ground.

It would be hard to identify anyone in particular 'training the house down' from this morning's session, but as a group they all seemed to be enjoying the training session and were 'up and vocal' where the drills required them to be so.

[Dry Rot]

I went this morning DR and was mainly interested in the following:

1. players in rehab
a) Redpath, Prudden, Roberts, Biggs and R Smith - straight line run thrus only
b) Zordy, Hunter, Minson, Wood, C Smith - handball drills only
c) Jong, Bonti - straight line kicking drills with the main group for around half the session only. Bonti looked comfortable (had the binoculars on him - didn't appear to be labouring/grimacing with any of the activities)

2. new recruits
Good builds on Collins, Adams, Dunkley (as expected) and capable in the drills practiced.
Williams worked well as did Lynch, but the latter's body is significantly smaller than any other player (incl Hamilton who I consider still slightly built).
Suckling and Adcock looked like seasoned footballers (Suckers left cannon on show in a couple of the kicking drills)

3. recent recruits
Toyd had one shoulder strapped (he had this strapped on Tuesday as well), but didn't seem to be compromised and joined in all the drills.
Magic had his left shoulder strapped and had heavy strapping around his right knee, but he took part in all drills and didn't look troubled (I was more troubled....).
CD, Webby, Dale all look bigger and more comfortable with the drills. Hamilton continues to show he is clever, but doesn't seem to exude the same confidence as the other 2nd year players (yet).

Jose Romero's eldest boy trained as well. I spoke briefly to Jose who said his son would be playing with Calder this year. He is small but solid enough for a teenager his size.

4. Libba
Trained right thru and looked really comfortable. In one drill a player was potentially about to tackle him until Rohan Smith called out 'dont tackle' and Libba played thru and kicked a simulated goal which the other players around him cheered. Clearly they are still wary of his ACL injury.

The training session went from around 8.40 to 10.15 with the players signing autographs for the few supporters present.

The session started with the player's completing drills that required them kicking with their opposite foot, and finished with simple simulated matchplay (no tackling) in two groups at either end of the ground.

It would be hard to identify anyone in particular 'training the house down' from this morning's session, but as a group they all seemed to be enjoying the training session and were 'up and vocal' where the drills required them to be so.

Thanks. Excellent report.

[chef]

Great stuff Smads

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Some body did. I was driving home from Footscray and had to stop at the zebra crossing while some supporters walked across.

That's nearly enough info to get me interested. Did they make it? More importantly did Josh Dunkley and all the recruits dazzle them?

[Twodogs]

That's nearly enough info to get me interested. Did they make it? More importantly did Josh Dunkley and all the recruits dazzle them?


The pedestrians made it across Cross st without me running them down, I try not to hit the people wearing red, white and blue-the others can fend for themselves. Is that what you wanted to know? ;)


I didn't actually see training, just drove past.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

The pedestrians made it across Cross st without me running them down, I try not to hit the people wearing red, white and blue-the others can fend for themselves. Is that what you wanted to know? ;)


I didn't actually see training, just drove past.

Terry Wheeler once gave way to me at a roundabout in Footscray or thereabouts. He had right of way but he thought I was going hard enough to be given way. I didn't know who this magnanimous driver was until I entered the intersection and our eyes met, his with magnanimity, mine with deference.
Like yours, this was another case of the red white and blue avoiding running over each other. I'm jealous you go past WO so regularly that you can report on the zebra crossing but really I'm grateful a WOOFER is overlooking the hallowed ground.

[Twodogs]

Terry Wheeler once gave way to me at a roundabout in Footscray or thereabouts. He had right of way but he thought I was going hard enough to be given way. I didn't know who this magnanimous driver was until I entered the intersection and our eyes met, his with magnanimity, mine with deference.
Like yours, this was another case of the red white and blue avoiding running over each other. I'm jealous you go past WO so regularly that you can report on the zebra crossing but really I'm grateful a WOOFER is overlooking the hallowed ground.

Im moving pretty soon. Owner has sold and the new owners want to move in. Not far though just around the corner and up the road a bit. I'll still be walking distance from the ground just not as short a walk as it is now. Good thing that I like walking.

[ledge]

I'm in Melton have often said I wish I win tattslotto so I could buy a home near the sacred turf and spend my days in the pound having a coffee or beer watching training and getting to know the boys.

[Go_Dogs]

Great report Smads. I went along yesterday too, but you have essentially covered it all so I'll keep my report brief.

Seeing Libba get involved in the majority of the session was a real highlight. In all of the kicking drills he is so clean - whilst he's not what I would call a penetrating foot he doesn't waste a touch, and that's off both feet.

To me Bont looked to be labouring a bit in the running he did with Jong. It may be a slow burn for him this season if he can't quite move as well as he'd like. It was good to see him spend a little bit of time taking shots at goal because he may spend more time forward, but his goal kicking was a bit off.

Redpath continues to look slimmer and slimmer. Given Crameri is out, I think Redpath is the likely bloke to have that 'lead high and wide' role with his improved motor.

Caleb Daniel has definitely not grown (in height).

Suckling kicked a nice long goal in one of the half field ball moving exercises. You can hear the players really call for the ball when he has it and despite burning a couple, he's going to really improve our F50 movement (and ability to score goals from outside 50) as he can spot up some difficult targets with fast moving kicks.

Minson also looks to have slimmed down a lot.

[GVGjr]

Redpath continues to look slimmer and slimmer. Given Crameri is out, I think Redpath is the likely bloke to have that 'lead high and wide' role with his improved motor.



I'm wondering if the thinking is to play both Redpath and Boyd as key forwards and the only way that was possible was for Redpath to transition into the type of running forward that Crameri offered. Both boys could also pinch hit in the ruck.
With Redpath's aggression even a slimmed down version will be intimidating.

Quite a few players in various rehab phases which isn't ideal but it should get better soon enough.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm wondering if the thinking is to play both Redpath and Boyd as key forwards and the only way that was possible was for Redpath to transition into the type of running forward that Crameri offered. Both boys could also pinch hit in the ruck.
With Redpath's aggression even a slimmed down version will be intimidating.

Quite a few players in various rehab phases which isn't ideal but it should get better soon enough.

Yes, agree re Redpath. Going to be interesting to see how we structure up during the NAB Cup, but perhaps one ruck and the two big forwards will cover us. Redpath's improved motor will hopefully mean less rotation to the bench, meaning we can carry Tom Boyd a bit as he continues to develop his.

Regarding the rehab group, the main concerns for me are Roberts (has been in that group the majority of sessions I've been too) Jong (likewise) and maybe Prudden (I'm not 100% on him though). Clay and Roarke will both be a while off (although watching Roarke move you wouldn't have known he had done his ACL 4 months ago) but unless I'm missing something, I'd be confident the others will be right to go.

[Twodogs]

H
Yes, agree re Redpath. Going to be interesting to see how we structure up during the NAB Cup, but perhaps one ruck and the two big forwards will cover us. Redpath's improved motor will hopefully mean less rotation to the bench, meaning we can carry Tom Boyd a bit as he continues to develop his.

Regarding the rehab group, the main concerns for me are Roberts (has been in that group the majority of sessions I've been too) Jong (likewise) and maybe Prudden (I'm not 100% on him though). Clay and Roarke will both be a while off (although watching Roarke move you wouldn't have known he had done his ACL 4 months ago) but unless I'm missing something, I'd be confident the others will be right to go.

Is there such a thing as a minor ACL? Some players you see in rehab after even 6 months still labouring and struggling with movement but with Roarke you just couldn't the tell looking at him, both his legs look the same size, he doesn't struggle with lateral movement. But with Libba even you could still tell the leg he did a couple of months ago because it was half the size of his other leg.

[Eastdog]

Great report Smads57. Much appreciated.

[LostDoggy]

I'm wondering if the thinking is to play both Redpath and Boyd as key forwards and the only way that was possible was for Redpath to transition into the type of running forward that Crameri offered.
With Redpath's aggression even a slimmed down version will be intimidating.


Redpath's improved motor will hopefully mean less rotation to the bench, meaning we can carry Tom Boyd a bit as he continues to develop his.



I had a little bit to do with Redpath when he played his juniors with Kyneton. I was one of the club's trainers.

I witnessed him do his ACL for a second time when he was 18 years old.

Having done two ACL as a 17-year-old and an 18-year-old threw away any chance he had of being drafted in 2010, let alone being drafted in the top five as some experts were anticipating after his 2008 season in the u18s as a 16-year-old.

The affect those injuries have done to Big Red means he does not have the lateral movement that is obviously crucial. He is a beast, and an intimidating one at that, when running in straight lines. I don't think he will ever have the physical ability nor the confidence to move laterally in a dynamic motion.

For this reason, it's sad that he will never reach his full potential. I am confident he would already be considered a star had he not had two serious setbacks.

I'm not saying he won't have a role to play, because he definitely has traits that still allows him to have an impact, but I think it's unfair to expect him to have the same running paterns and movement as Crameri. Not many players would be able to match the athleticism of Crameri, so it's unfair to expect him to transition into the same type of player.

You will have to look elsewhere if you're trying to find a player to replace Crameri. It's almost like comparing apples and oranges by including Redpath in this discussion.

[Twodogs]

Cheers CBM can you tell us a bit about his 2008 season perhaps?


Maybe he would be better suited to CHB if lateral movement is an issue? It's mostly running in straight lines from there.

[LostDoggy]

Cheers CBM can you tell us a bit about his 2008 season perhaps?


Maybe he would be better suited to CHB if lateral movement is an issue? It's mostly running in straight lines from there.
I was only the Kyenton trainer in 2009 and 2010, so unfortunately I missed his 2008 season.

I only ever heard positive things about him. When he came back in 2010, from memory he lasted three or four games and was taking strong contested marks and kicking goals from 55m consistently. His partner in crime was James Condos. Redpath was the CHF and Condos (who consistently kicked 6-10 goals every week) was the FF who amazed me with the amount of freakish goals he kicked.

One highlight that stands out of Redpath is him attacking the ball at full speed by taking possession of the footy on the volley with his back towards goal, and continuing to run away from goal by charging at two opponents, one of whom was intent on talking, and the other intent on laying a bump. Redpath left them both for dead, knocking them both to the ground with his brute strength, before giving off a handball.

It was a luxury when he played for Kyenton, which usually meant the Bendigo Bombers had a bye. He definitely used to play at Full Back for them in the VFL, so he has played there. But 100% as a forward for Kyenton.

[Twodogs]

Thanks CBM. Kyneton has the best fish and hip shop I've been to.

[Remi Moses]

The pedestrians made it across Cross st without me running them down, I try not to hit the people wearing red, white and blue-the others can fend for themselves. Is that what you wanted to know? ;)


I didn't actually see training, just drove past.
I nearly knocked someone over there back in the early 90's:eek:
Still sends shivers down the spine

[stefoid]

Thanks CBM. Kyneton has the best fish and hip shop I've been to.

I thought hipsters only did hamburger joints

[LostDoggy]

I thought hipsters only did hamburger joints

I've got TD pegged as a proto-hipster - ahead of the curve.

They'll all be doing what he does in a few years (and they'll reckon they're so hip).

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's a real credit Redpath. He has worked super hard to get to where he is. There's no doubt his lateral movements are a weakness, clearly due to multiple knee reconstructions, but he's still been able to improve his game every year. He came from a long way back too.

Most KPP's (and key forwards particularly) have been criticsed for not working hard enough (Riewoldt the exception), but Jack works really hard which is evident in how he's been able to change his body shape.

Very interesting year ahead for him. With Crameri out and Boyd still raw, he really could play a lot of games

[always right]

Looking forward to seeing the boys train this Saturday morning (8:00am) at the East West day at Wesley College. Hoping for a strong turnout of dog suppoorters.

[Eastdog]

Looking forward to seeing the boys train this Saturday morning (8:00am) at the East West day at Wesley College. Hoping for a strong turnout of dog suppoorters.

Yep will probably head down there on Saturday as well AR. Weather looks like it will be ok and it's good that's in the morning. This is great opportunity for Eastern suburbs based Bulldogs supporters to catch our team train and mingle with the players.

Thoroughly enjoyed the WO experience in the NAB challenge last year. Great crowd and vibe. Only bad thing about that game was Libba doing his knee. Glad he is back and training now.

[westdog54]

I thought hipsters only did hamburger joints

His hair has grown out considerably in recent years...

[chef]

His hair has grown out considerably in recent years...

Has he got it in a manbun yet?

[LostDoggy]

Looking forward to seeing the boys train this Saturday morning (8:00am) at the East West day at Wesley College. Hoping for a strong turnout of dog suppoorters.

Absoluteley AR.

Will be heading down Sat. can't wait to see the boys in the flesh.

#Getaroundem ;)

[jeemak]

I found myself sitting next to David Young last season due to a friendship connection. He didn't quite gush over how determined and how nice he found Redpath, but he got pretty close to it. Apparently there's not many he's come across who deserve it as much as Jack does.

It's not likely, irrespective of improved fitness, that he'll ever be a player that does much outside of the full forward line and pinch hitting in the ruck due to his physical limitations, but if he improves year on year there's no reason why he can't be a very good second option forward. He has decent burst on the lead and kicks straight, so if he improves his fitness there's a spot for him in the pocket for sure.

[Ghost Dog]

I found myself sitting next to David Young last season due to a friendship connection. He didn't quite gush over how determined and how nice he found Redpath, but he got pretty close to it. Apparently there's not many he's come across who deserve it as much as Jack does.

It's not likely, irrespective of improved fitness, that he'll ever be a player that does much outside of the full forward line and pinch hitting in the ruck due to his physical limitations, but if he improves year on year there's no reason why he can't be a very good second option forward. He has decent burst on the lead and kicks straight, so if he improves his fitness there's a spot for him in the pocket for sure.

Let's not put limits on our lads. Can't think of many posters here who didn't have T-Dickson pegged as a 'good solid player' with 'one trick' and a likely candidate for the VFL. Yes, kicking goals straight as an arrow is a bloody good trick.

Jack Redpath, I give you permission to be the next Wayne Carey. It's all yours son.

[ratsmac]

On Redpath, I think he is a real trier, which is a good thing. He doesn't drop his head when things don't go his way. His biggest problem from what I see is he drifts in and out of the game. He just needs to stay involved more. Not sure if it's his running patterns, positioning or what but I think it's definitely something that he can learn. I reckon Easton Wood used to disappear at times as well but he certainly addressed that last season.

I glad to hear the reports that Jack has worked really hard in the pre-season, especially with the Crameri suspension changing our forward set up. I like Redpath but I feel this year is do or die for him. If he can hold his marks and stay in the game as I said, he could be a real weapon for us because he is a good size and a beautiful kick.

[Eastdog]

Look forward to the reports from woofers who can make it down this afternoon.

[Mofra]

I glad to hear the reports that Jack has worked really hard in the pre-season, especially with the Crameri suspension changing our forward set up. I like Redpath but I feel this year is do or die for him. If he can hold his marks and stay in the game as I said, he could be a real weapon for us because he is a good size and a beautiful kick.
My worry is that we have two tall genuine forwards on our list and they both play FF better than anything else.
We're trying to turn Redders into a higher leading forward and/or Boyd into a ruck/forward.

Not sure how well either will go although Boyd's ruckwork isn't too bad.

[kruder]

Amazing the lack of footage coming out the kennel. My mother follows the Dees and I watched some footage today of their preseason camp it was bloody excellent. Seems like we are trying to keep a lid of things but we are in the business of selling memberships.

[Twodogs]

Well they are up to some major change given the levels of paranoia and secrecy at training. We must be going to play a different game style.

Unless. Maybe that's exactly what they want us to think?

[Remi Moses]

Had a peak for about 15 minutes this afternoon
Rohan Smith seemed to be front and centre screaming at the players to show more intensity .
One drill I've never seen was 2 lines of 5 or 6 players about 20 metres apart each with two footballs.
Juggling both balls and counting to 5 they had to kick the ball quickly around the corner .
Then placing the two balls on the ground, counting to 5 and quickly kicking the ball around the corner .
The other drill was a ruck contest between Minson and Tom B and Tom C and alternating with Jed Adcock roving to their ruck work.
The drill was spoiled by some crappy throw ins .Will monstered Tom B( as he should) the other two were quite even .
I noticed plenty of kicking on the non preferred by a fair few

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I saw Will the other day and he looks very fit. Didn't look like a guy resigned to playing VFL.

[dog town]

Had a peak for about 15 minutes this afternoon
Rohan Smith seemed to be front and centre screaming at the players to show more intensity .
One drill I've never seen was 2 lines of 5 or 6 players about 20 metres apart each with two footballs.
Juggling both balls and counting to 5 they had to kick the ball quickly around the corner .
Then placing the two balls on the ground, counting to 5 and quickly kicking the ball around the corner .
The other drill was a ruck contest between Minson and Tom B and Tom C and alternating with Jed Adcock roving to their ruck work.
The drill was spoiled by some crappy throw ins .Will monstered Tom B( as he should) the other two were quite even .
I noticed plenty of kicking on the non preferred by a fair few

I also got down there this arvo while on my holidays.

It wasn't the most intense session but there was plenty going on and they worked into it.

Bevo didn't run any of it and just kept an eye on things as he walked around. The other coaches ran their individual groups.

After a small warm up kicking drill they split into 4 or 5 groups. They would do different drills for 15 minutes then swap. I noticed that the groups were changing and after each set of 15 minutes the drills changed too so it seemed very targeted to different groups of players. They were not simply just running through a series of drills in the same groups.

Some of the drills were

* 3 on 3 inside a confined area (maybe 10 by 10m) with two coaches either side kicking over the group. Focus was on the defending side communicating and keeping the space in front of the attackers so they could zone off and intercept the kick. Think it was about handing over opponents and keeping that space in front. If you watch off the ball at our games our defenders always stand 3-5 metres in front of their opponents and try to control that space to make opponents kick it up and over. This drill had Biggs, Collins, Williams on one team but I cant remember the other 3 besides Hamling. Smith ran this one and was very loud in his encouragement of Collins. Williams looks a very smart player and timed some of his interceptions well. Clearly a drill for the backs.

* As Remi described a bunch of the players at one stage did some simple ball handling drills where they would pick the ball up and kick off one step. They also did things like throw the ball up and kick off one step, hold two balls and kick whichever football the coach yelled out, loop the ball around their back and kick off one step. Then they went into running around poles and kicking off either foot. This one had Macrae, Stringer, Dahlhaus, Libba, Hamilton, Lynch and a few other mid types that I forget now.

* They did several stoppage type exercises but they were on the opposite side to me or a bit further down.

* The big guys did lots of marking of high balls. No body pressure just the ball kicked up with height and the player jumping at it. A coach would stand behind them with a pool noodle and slap them in the head or across the arm as they marked.

* At one stage we had a drill going off each point post. It was simply a coach throwing the ball to a player about ten meters in from the point post and simulating a man on the mark. The player with the ball would push back 5 meters then take off across the face of goal before executing a switch kick to a stationary target while under pressure from the guy who was on the mark. Pretty simple stuff but because there was two groups one group was kicking on their opposite foot under pressure. Collins scuffed a few when I was watching but most of the guys kicked it very well. Its the kick that opens the whole ground up but is obviously quite risky.

* One group did lots of contest and game sense stuff. One part of it involved a two on two where they would converge on a neutral ball and the two defenders would have to decide (pretty much instantly) who was attacking the ball carrier and who would peel off to cover the outlet player. Done a bit of coaching myself and this is very tough to teach. Players instinctively go to the ball and if they don't get it they want to attack the guy who has it. It was all about not having both guys going to the ball. Hrovat took some of the kids under his wing for this one which was good to see. This group also did some game sense handball/keepings off. Coaches put big emphasis on defenders pushing the attackers boundary side during this. Bailey Williams again did some smart things.

I wasn't paying too much attention to who was out there but I don't think I saw Wallis, Bont, Picken, Morris, Murphy or Boyd. May have noticed Boyd helping out in the groups at one stage.

As with last year I definitely think we are much leaner than under McCartney. Not as much muscle and leg size. Macrae looks like he has bulked up nicely though.

Noticed Roughy was mainly with the backs and not so much with the rucks and tall forwards when they split up. Could be nothing but he was involved in the switching and defensive stuff.

I debated whether to share this but I will give an edited version. Late in the session Bevo walked over to the boundary fence and singled out a spectator for filming the session. The guy had some sort of hand held camera. Without detailing the whole exchange Bevo was clearly very annoyed and did not think this was a guy who was just taking a few happy snaps. Happy to elaborate via PM if anyone is really interested. Clearly we are being very careful with this sort of stuff.

[LostDoggy]

Fantastic post DT much appreciated.

[always right]

Brilliant summary....thanks.

[merantau]

Appreciate the work you've put on to this - thanks.

[Pugz89]

Not sure how to PM (new here) but would be keen for you to elaborate. Saw Bevo on the track but didn't see any of this happen, although i had to leave 45mins into the session.

[S Coast Simon]

As a supporter living in QLD I can't thank you guys enough for your training reports. In my 38 years as a member I have never been so excited by what the club is producing. Keep up the fantastic work woofers it is so good to be able to read what is happening at the club. Thank you

[Eastdog]

Not sure how to PM (new here) but would be keen for you to elaborate. Saw Bevo on the track but didn't see any of this happen, although i had to leave 45mins into the session.

Welcome to WOOF Pugz89. If you want to Private message just click on the username of the poster you want to send a message to hit private message and then you'll be able to do it. Hope that helps mate. If you want to PM dog town just click his name then hit private message and then pretty much you can contact him privately from there.

[Bulldog4life]

Well they are up to some major change given the levels of paranoia and secrecy at training. We must be going to play a different game style.

Unless. Maybe that's exactly what they want us to think?

Makes this season more exciting not knowing exactly what to expect yet.

[LostDoggy]

Makes this season more exciting not knowing exactly what to expect yet.

Like last year B4L except the anticapation that we could be even more unpredictable then last year gives me goosebumps all over. ;)

[Twodogs]

Makes this season more exciting not knowing exactly what to expect yet.


Doesn't it! Isn't life grand when the footy season is worth getting really excited about.

[LostDoggy]

Thanks again for the updates guys. Helps address this Darwin member's withdrawals!

[Templeton31]

that report DT was awesome. thanks. Although I suspect Bevo is gonna ban you from future training sessions!!! :D

[The Doctor]

I also got down there this arvo while on my holidays.

It wasn't the most intense session but there was plenty going on and they worked into it.

Bevo didn't run any of it and just kept an eye on things as he walked around. The other coaches ran their individual groups.

After a small warm up kicking drill they split into 4 or 5 groups. They would do different drills for 15 minutes then swap. I noticed that the groups were changing and after each set of 15 minutes the drills changed too so it seemed very targeted to different groups of players. They were not simply just running through a series of drills in the same groups.

Some of the drills were

* 3 on 3 inside a confined area (maybe 10 by 10m) with two coaches either side kicking over the group. Focus was on the defending side communicating and keeping the space in front of the attackers so they could zone off and intercept the kick. Think it was about handing over opponents and keeping that space in front. If you watch off the ball at our games our defenders always stand 3-5 metres in front of their opponents and try to control that space to make opponents kick it up and over. This drill had Biggs, Collins, Williams on one team but I cant remember the other 3 besides Hamling. Smith ran this one and was very loud in his encouragement of Collins. Williams looks a very smart player and timed some of his interceptions well. Clearly a drill for the backs.

* As Remi described a bunch of the players at one stage did some simple ball handling drills where they would pick the ball up and kick off one step. They also did things like throw the ball up and kick off one step, hold two balls and kick whichever football the coach yelled out, loop the ball around their back and kick off one step. Then they went into running around poles and kicking off either foot. This one had Macrae, Stringer, Dahlhaus, Libba, Hamilton, Lynch and a few other mid types that I forget now.

* They did several stoppage type exercises but they were on the opposite side to me or a bit further down.

* The big guys did lots of marking of high balls. No body pressure just the ball kicked up with height and the player jumping at it. A coach would stand behind them with a pool noodle and slap them in the head or across the arm as they marked.

* At one stage we had a drill going off each point post. It was simply a coach throwing the ball to a player about ten meters in from the point post and simulating a man on the mark. The player with the ball would push back 5 meters then take off across the face of goal before executing a switch kick to a stationary target while under pressure from the guy who was on the mark. Pretty simple stuff but because there was two groups one group was kicking on their opposite foot under pressure. Collins scuffed a few when I was watching but most of the guys kicked it very well. Its the kick that opens the whole ground up but is obviously quite risky.

* One group did lots of contest and game sense stuff. One part of it involved a two on two where they would converge on a neutral ball and the two defenders would have to decide (pretty much instantly) who was attacking the ball carrier and who would peel off to cover the outlet player. Done a bit of coaching myself and this is very tough to teach. Players instinctively go to the ball and if they don't get it they want to attack the guy who has it. It was all about not having both guys going to the ball. Hrovat took some of the kids under his wing for this one which was good to see. This group also did some game sense handball/keepings off. Coaches put big emphasis on defenders pushing the attackers boundary side during this. Bailey Williams again did some smart things.

I wasn't paying too much attention to who was out there but I don't think I saw Wallis, Bont, Picken, Morris, Murphy or Boyd. May have noticed Boyd helping out in the groups at one stage.

As with last year I definitely think we are much leaner than under McCartney. Not as much muscle and leg size. Macrae looks like he has bulked up nicely though.

Noticed Roughy was mainly with the backs and not so much with the rucks and tall forwards when they split up. Could be nothing but he was involved in the switching and defensive stuff.

I debated whether to share this but I will give an edited version. Late in the session Bevo walked over to the boundary fence and singled out a spectator for filming the session. The guy had some sort of hand held camera. Without detailing the whole exchange Bevo was clearly very annoyed and did not think this was a guy who was just taking a few happy snaps. Happy to elaborate via PM if anyone is really interested. Clearly we are being very careful with this sort of stuff.

Good to have you back in town DT.

There is always an analytical and insightful view to your posts

[bornadog]

Preseason Training to be ramped up:

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/video/2016-01-16/king-ramping-up-the-intensity

[Happy Days]

Can anyone confirm or deny that Jason Johannisen has bleached the top of his hair, Odell Beckham style?

[LostDoggy]

Can anyone confirm or deny that Jason Johannisen has bleached the top of his hair, Odell Beckham style?

Can confirm. There is a picture of him on the homepage of www.westernbulldogs.com.au (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au) in his role as cultural ambassador (he's top right of the picture).

[Axe Man]

Can anyone confirm or deny that Jason Johannisen has bleached the top of his hair, Odell Beckham style?

Looks like it:
http://s7.postimg.org/poproa9xn/Bulldogs_team_photo_2016.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[Axe Man]

Can confirm. There is a picture of him on the homepage of www.westernbulldogs.com.au (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au) in his role as cultural ambassador (he's top right of the picture).

http://s17.postimg.org/ebh20199r/multicultural.jpg (http://postimage.org/)

[BornInDroopSt'54]

He must be enjoying the limelight, good, as long as it stays the icing not the cake.

[F'scary]

He can wear it...and enjoy a potential increase in Brownlow votes.

[ratsmac]

Thanks DT for that post. I feel like I was there.

[LostDoggy]

Just saw an interview with Bailey Dale, where he was asked to nominate a first year player who was particularly impressive.

With good loyalty, he went with namesake Bailey Williams, commenting particularly on his strong marking.

I know there is a lot of spin this time of year, but really like the prosects of this crop of recruits. Reckon Footscray games will be great viewing this year, with a lot of talented players working double time to push for a senior birth.

[Eastdog]

Great training report dog town. Much appreciated. Reporting on the details of training is not an easy thing to do but it sounds like you nailed it here. Certainly worth reading that a few times to understand the deatils of it better.

Did anyone get to training early this morning?

[Eastdog]

Thanks DT for that post. I feel like I was there.

Yep agree ratsmac.

[Eastdog]

Woofers could always chip in for a drone with a camera and watch a live feed of training - as long as its not too windy, from stories I've heard about drones going astray after Xmas. But then again, how many calm days does the WO experience? Not many from my years of watching games there.

A cool idea Torpedo :) :)

[GVGjr]

Did anyone get to training early this morning?

I'd be surprised if they trained Easty as it really would have been a slap in the face of the East West day.

There was a major Western Bulldogs ladies training session there this morning.

[Eastdog]

I'd be surprised if they trained Easty as it really would have been a slap in the face of the East West day.

There was a major Western Bulldogs ladies training session there this morning.

A poster on our big footy forum said that there was a training session at WO this morning and Bevo asked if there were any East-West people there and he explained that they had to postpone Glen Waverley because the Wesley College ground wasn't up to scratch for the intense session that was required before we headed up north. They were blaming themselves and said they would happily go there but not under the current schedule.

[josie]

I watched them train this morning. I stood on grassy knoll, fortunately no snipers.

A poster on big footy said Bevo spoke to the handful of folk that were near Barker's Cafe and asked I they were east westers and told them Wesley Oval not right for intense training today. So sounds like club did right thing.

Report on big footy quite detailed so will not repeat here. Suffice for to say the match simulation of bout 15 to 20 min halves was great to watch. Caleb Daniel's excellent disposal again stood out to me. And I think Dahl is going to have another stupendous year - his competitiveness is outstanding. Roughead went off with what like a sore right hand however apparently he came back on later according to Big Footy poster. Of the big boys I liked look of Hamling, Collins and Goetz - he looks very mobile and deft with disposal for a tall chap plus has frame that looks like he could add bulk well. Boys seemed to be encouraging TBoyd who kicked 2 goals and was running a fair way from goal trying to make himself a target, plus he is definitely trimmer as is Wilbur. Most encouraging re TBoyd was great tackle he put on his mate Honeychurch in one of preceding handball only mini games - a little bit of controlled agro, TBoyd looked intense to me so hoping for big things this year from him. Plus wonderful to see Libba out there - got a feeling they may hold him back a little to make sure he is really right to go. Libba was in match simo however was wearing pink vest which possibly indicated not to tackle him.Hunter looks chock full of confidence, a little bit of swagger about him. Hope he can continue his upward trajectory.

[Eastdog]

Cheers josie.

Yeah Caleb may be a small player but gee from the sound of it he is definitely set to put it up a notch or two this year. I reckon our recruiters got this one right.

[Twodogs]

Just saw an interview with Bailey Dale, where he was asked to nominate a first year player who was particularly impressive.

With good loyalty, he went with namesake Bailey Williams, commenting particularly on his strong marking.

I know there is a lot of spin this time of year, but really like the prosects of this crop of recruits. Reckon Footscray games will be great viewing this year, with a lot of talented players working double time to push for a senior birth.

It seems like with some very astute trading and some especially competent and some inspired drafting we have gathered a gun list.

The problem maybe that we might have to trade out some very good players to get players for the positions we need although maybe having got a couple of KPPs may have lessened that problem.

[Bulldog4life]

Cheers josie.

Yeah Caleb may be a small player but gee from the sound of it he is definitely set to put it up a notch or two this year. I reckon our recruiters got this one right.

Which ones have they got wrong in your opinion Easty?

[Eastdog]

Which ones have they got wrong in your opinion Easty?

2009 draft I would say B4L even though we didn't get high picks in that year as we had a really strong season it was a poor draft for us.

[Bulldog4life]

2009 draft I would say B4L even though we didn't get high picks in that year as we had a really strong season it was a poor draft for us.

The way it read I was under the impression you were talking about recent drafts. My bad.

[Eastdog]

The way it read I was under the impression you were talking about recent drafts. My bad.

Sorry B4L. Yeah definitely not drafts in recent years which we have done very well in.

[LostDoggy]

Looking at some of the shots from preseason, you can see the conditioning staff have been having an impact, with a few of the lighter guys looking appreciably more muscular (Dale, Hamling, ZCordy and Daniel come to mind), while a few of the bigger guys are looking decidedly leaner (Minson, TBoyd, Redpath).

[LostDoggy]

Hearing more good things about Bailey Williams. This quote is from a respected poster in another forum from yesterday's match simulation:

"Of the rookies, Bailey Williams was the most impressive. Playing in defence, he must have had a dozen possies, including a great defensive grab running into a pack. Every time he got the ball, he hit his target as well."

[Before I Die]

The way it read I was under the impression you were talking about recent drafts. My bad.

I read it as a pat on the back for our recruiters, in that they got it right and everybody else got it wrong with regards to Caleb.

[Eastdog]

I read it as a pat on the back for our recruiters, in that they got it right and everybody else got it wrong with regards to Caleb.

I guess you could say that. Initially there was criticism of that selection but after watching him in 2015 I think that's all but gone now. He looks like he will be a quality player for us. Just love his speed.

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZtA-iLWIAQiR4D.jpg:large

MORE DETAILS HERE (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-01-27/sunshine-coast-open-training)

[Twodogs]

I wish I was on the sunshine coast...

[Mofra]

I guess you could say that. Initially there was criticism of that selection but after watching him in 2015 I think that's all but gone now. He looks like he will be a quality player for us. Just love his speed.
One of the few players who tested well for speed and endurance at the draft camp. Great late pick for the risk/reward payoff

[always right]

Is it me or does this seem like the longest pre-season ever?

I guess expectation does that to you.

[Bulldog4life]

Is it me or does this seem like the longest pre-season ever?

I guess expectation does that to you.

I think when the cricket and tennis are as boring as they have been it would seem so.

[Twodogs]

Is it me or does this seem like the longest pre-season ever?

I guess expectation does that to you.


I think when the cricket and tennis are as boring as they have been it would seem so.

Unless it's Davis Cup or lawn I get bored by tennis pretty quickly anyway but the cricket has been dull this year. It's kind of like they have played reluctantly. Last summer with the WC and all it was a brilliant season but this season just seems a bit of a drag. I love cricket with a passion but I didn't watch a lot of test cricket this summer. Maybe it's because I love cricket so much that I didn't watch any of the tests.

I really enjoyed the BBL though. Great time of year, great time of night, just long enough to have a quick taste of cricket before bed and nobody is complaining that dad is watching cricket all day. Instead they actually watch it with me! Well sit in the room staring at iPads and asking the same question occasionally.

[LostDoggy]

Four weeks to the first NAB cup match - not that I'm calendar watching. Much.

[stefoid]

One of the few players who tested well for speed and endurance at the draft camp. Great late pick for the risk/reward payoff

He has one of the best beeps of all time, but where did he come in the repeat 20m sprint or the 3km trial? Obviously he has the endurance but Im not sure he has the capacity to cover the ground that quickly?

Seemed like he faded in games he played in last year - maybe due to his preseason injury.

[Mofra]

He has one of the best beeps of all time, but where did he come in the repeat 20m sprint or the 3km trial? Obviously he has the endurance but Im not sure he has the capacity to cover the ground that quickly?
The Beep test is a repeat 20m sprint - not sure of his absolute speed over 20m but certain he made it under the magical 3sec mark.

Unsure about his time trial, TBH the 3km trial is less AFL relevant than repeat max effort testing anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-stage_fitness_test

(I still get goosebumps hearing that beeping sound after copping the test so much as a youngster)

[Greystache]

The Beep test is a repeat 20m sprint - not sure of his absolute speed over 20m but certain he made it under the magical 3sec mark.

Unsure about his time trial, TBH the 3km trial is less AFL relevant than repeat max effort testing anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-stage_fitness_test

(I still get goosebumps hearing that beeping sound after copping the test so much as a youngster)

He ran 3.00 seconds.

He actually recorded the exact same time in all three attempts which is pretty unusual.

[stefoid]

The Beep test is a repeat 20m sprint - not sure of his absolute speed over 20m but certain he made it under the magical 3sec mark.

Unsure about his time trial, TBH the 3km trial is less AFL relevant than repeat max effort testing anyway.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-stage_fitness_test

(I still get goosebumps hearing that beeping sound after copping the test so much as a youngster)

There is a repetitive sprint test that is different from the beep test. The former would be more about top speed, and the beep is about endurance.

As for the 3km time trial, Im just guessing, but would it indicate someones ability to get up and down the ground a bunch of times? Just general ability to cover large amounts of territory in a game at speed. Someone like Riewolt, for instance, would shit that in.

At any rate, quick of mind beats quick legs, but it would be nice for someone on the small side to have both.

[Greystache]

There is a repetitive sprint test that is different from the beep test. The former would be more about top speed, and the beep is about endurance.

As for the 3km time trial, Im just guessing, but would it indicate someones ability to get up and down the ground a bunch of times? Just general ability to cover large amounts of territory in a game at speed. Someone like Riewolt, for instance, would shit that in.

At any rate, quick of mind beats quick legs, but it would be nice for someone on the small side to have both.

His repeat sprint time was 25.29 would put him firmly in the average category at the draft camp.

[GVGjr]

One of the few players who tested well for speed and endurance at the draft camp. Great late pick for the risk/reward payoff

Daniel was a bit better than average for his 3 sprint times. He test very well for agility and of course recorded an outstanding 16 - 1 for the beep test. He was middle of the park for the repeat sprints. I can't find his 3km result but I don't think it was in the top bracket.

[F'scary]

He loses them anyway most of the time by taking advantage of his low centre of gravity.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

He loses them anyway most of the time by taking advantage of his low centre of gravity.

Also the short legs which help in changing direction with a smaller turning circle, evasion.

[soupman]

I've never thought he was particularly quick, it's just that he is always moving. He is constantly running at near top speed, and with his small turning circle it makes him hard to grab. Also when he does this with the ball he spends the whole time assessing where to give it off. As he runs with it he is constantly in the motion of handballing it but he never releases until he sees the right option. This combined with his ability to get the ball to his foot incredibly quickly means that he almost always can get it away before someone tackles him and looks quicker than everyone else.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Four weeks to the first NAB cup match - not that I'm calendar watching. Much.

Only four weeks? Prepare your safety harnesses for take off from Whitten Aerodrome. Oxygen masks will drop if we reach Mach 2.
"We flew so high I almost touched the face of God".

[LostDoggy]

I've never thought he was particularly quick, it's just that he is always moving. He is constantly running at near top speed, and with his small turning circle it makes him hard to grab. Also when he does this with the ball he spends the whole time assessing where to give it off. As he runs with it he is constantly in the motion of handballing it but he never releases until he sees the right option. This combined with his ability to get the ball to his foot incredibly quickly means that he almost always can get it away before someone tackles him and looks quicker than everyone else.
That's a great analysis soupaman - never thought of it like that but makes perfect sense. When reading that, made me think of Greg Williams, who was short and not overly athletic. He wasn't quick over the ground but got to every contest and rarely got caught with his low centre of gravity, fast mind and fast hands.

[Mofra]

Bont one of the lowest accelerating kids at draft camp (bottom 10%) but still manages to use smarts to hit the contest at speed so it's not noticeable on the field. Knowing where to run covers a multitude of below-average athletic traits.

[Testekill]

I've never thought he was particularly quick, it's just that he is always moving. He is constantly running at near top speed, and with his small turning circle it makes him hard to grab. Also when he does this with the ball he spends the whole time assessing where to give it off. As he runs with it he is constantly in the motion of handballing it but he never releases until he sees the right option. This combined with his ability to get the ball to his foot incredibly quickly means that he almost always can get it away before someone tackles him and looks quicker than everyone else.

It's what I like to call implied speed. Daniel is only moderately quick (probably about average I guess) but he knows where to run and is never really caught flat footed since he's always moving.

[F'scary]

Bont one of the lowest accelerating kids at draft camp (bottom 10%) but still manages to use smarts to hit the contest at speed so it's not noticeable on the field. Knowing where to run covers a multitude of below-average athletic traits.

Three small steps for a man, one giant leap for Bontempelli

[Twodogs]

Only four weeks? Prepare your safety harnesses for take off from Whitten Aerodrome. Oxygen masks will drop if we reach Mach 2.
"We flew so high I almost touched the face of God".

Was Teddy Whitten alongside God?


That's a great analysis soupaman - never thought of it like that but makes perfect sense. When reading that, made me think of Greg Williams, who was short and not overly athletic. He wasn't quick over the ground but got to every contest and rarely got caught with his low centre of gravity, fast mind and fast hands.


Lallly Bamblett was short, pudgy, slow as treacle with legs like two vats of jelly and made the best defenders in the competition grab more air or fall over themselves trying to catch him than any player in history. I still don't know how but he had this way of running that made the player chasing him cross his legs while he was chasing and they always fell over. It was hilarious. We'd just hoop with delight as Les waddled into the goal square unmolested and quietly tap another through.

He was amazing at intercepting defenders handballs too. A defender would handball to a teammate 5 metres away and Les would appear from nowhere between the two of them pluck the ball out of the air. All of a sudden he was goal side with the ball and the two closest defenders had their back to him wondering where the ball had gone.

Les Bamblett gave me more joy watching him than any other player. There's never been a more enjoyable footballer. There was never a dull moment with Lally, he was one of a kind.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

[QUOTE=Twodogs;479073]Was Teddy Whitten alongside God?]

No God FF, Teddy CHB.

[stefoid]

Was Teddy Whitten alongside God?




Lallly Bamblett was short, pudgy, slow as treacle with legs like two vats of jelly and made the best defenders in the competition grab more air or fall over themselves trying to catch him than any player in history. I still don't know how but he had this way of running that made the player chasing him cross his legs while he was chasing and they always fell over. It was hilarious. We'd just hoop with delight as Les waddled into the goal square unmolested and quietly tap another through.

He was amazing at intercepting defenders handballs too. A defender would handball to a teammate 5 metres away and Les would appear from nowhere between the two of them pluck the ball out of the air. All of a sudden he was goal side with the ball and the two closest defenders had their back to him wondering where the ball had gone.

Les Bamblett gave me more joy watching him than any other player. There's never been a more enjoyable footballer. There was never a dull moment with Lally, he was one of a kind.

Strangely this clip has hardly any Dougie Hawkins in it, but a good Bamblett goal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0u8mQPYtVw

[always right]

Lallly Bamblett was short, pudgy, slow as treacle with legs like two vats of jelly and made the best defenders in the competition grab more air or fall over themselves trying to catch him than any player in history. I still don't know how but he had this way of running that made the player chasing him cross his legs while he was chasing and they always fell over. It was hilarious. We'd just hoop with delight as Les waddled into the goal square unmolested and quietly tap another through.

Lally was slow? I must have been watching a different bloke.

[Twodogs]

Lally was slow? I must have been watching a different bloke.


He wasn't fast fast but he knew where the ball was going better than anyone else. Me saying he wasn't fast is to properly contrast how amazing it was that he did things only lightning quick players usually only did. I'm not saying anything about lal. I'd have him back now.

[F'scary]

Strangely this clip has hardly any Dougie Hawkins in it, but a good Bamblett goal

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0u8mQPYtVw

Caught a couple of highlights of Bamblett on YouTube. Gee, he moves like Stringer.

[ledge]

Bamblett first 20 metres was lightning and did a lot of the run straight through work so if the ball did fall in his hands no one would catch him.
Stringer does it a lot too but up the ground more than Lally did.

[Twodogs]

And each step Lally took he could have kicked it, hand balled it or changed direction or two of the three at once all without breaking stride so defenders had that habit of panicking that Stringer seems to cause. Defenders hate getting caught in 3 on 1s with Stringer and the bouncing ball because at least 2 of the 3 will fall over.

[LostDoggy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvAR4f1EWZY

(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvAR4f1EWZY)
He wasn't fast fast but he knew where the ball was going better than anyone else. Me saying he wasn't fast is to properly contrast how amazing it was that he did things only lightning quick players usually only did. I'm not saying anything about lal. I'd have him back now.

I'm with you 100% on Lally TD. I'm on record here as saying he's my all time favourite Bulldog to watch. Not fast, but such a pure player whose mind was a step ahead of everyone around him. 8.40 of the above clip is a good example of Lally at his best.

[LostDoggy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITBWyKGbgQQ

At 27.50 Lally looks quick in this match winner, but it's his football brain that has him ahead of the play.

[bornadog]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITBWyKGbgQQ

At 27.50 Lally looks quick in this match winner, but it's his football brain that has him ahead of the play.

Wasn't that the first win down at Geelong for 30 years or something ridiculous. I went to that game, it was so enjoyable.

[LostDoggy]

Wasn't that the first win down at Geelong for 30 years or something ridiculous. I went to that game, it was so enjoyable.

I was there too BAD. Wonderful game of football. Lally kicked 5 or 6 sublime goals and a still fairly unknown Garry Ablett had about 30 possessions and kicked 5.9 for Geelong.

[Twodogs]

I was there too. We got called western suburban scum by one fine specimen of manhood. He snarled at us and disappeared into the crowd.

[azabob]

Great signs to see that Bamblett is tearing up the training track this pre-season. He should have a massive 2016.

[Twodogs]

Great signs to see that Bamblett is tearing up the training track this pre-season. He should have a massive 2016.

From all reports Les will be massive in 2016 in much the same way he has been massive since he gave VFL footy away.

[Webby]

Little birdy told me Jake limped off the track on the Sunshine Coast today with either an ankle or foot injury.

[Go_Dogs]

Am I right in saying there was no training today, as the side is just returning from QLD?

[kruder]

just watching the very brief training updates, is it just me or does it look like Zaine has grown again?

[GVGjr]

Am I right in saying there was no training today, as the side is just returning from QLD?

That was my understanding. I was going to head there this morning but made a call on Thursday and was told there would be no training today.

[bornadog]

Sunshine Coast Wrap up (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-02-07/northern-exposure)

While clubs travel the world looking for an edge that will set them apart from the competition, the Bulldogs have spent the past 10 days in the heat and humidity of the Sunshine Coast under the watchful eye of the coaching staff and Physical Performance Manager Mathew Inness.


Inness, in his first full year in the role after previous appointments at the club as Conditioning Coach and VFL High Performance Manager, said that the players have adjusted well to Queensland’s tropical climate.


“Obviously there’s a bit of heat and humidity around here, so that took a while for the players to get used to but once they became accustomed to that, they trained really well," he said.


“There’s three ovals we used which we obviously don’t get in Melbourne, [but] the heat adds an environmental stimulus which is something that definitely tested the boys, which was great.”


Speaking with westernbulldogs.com.au, Inness said that benefits in making the trip north extends beyond the footy field, the 10 days away giving the players, new and old, a chance to bond as a unit.


“It was basically to move our normal training up to here, so it was a chance to get away, spend some time together and get some really good training in the lead up to the NAB Challenge in a couple of weeks.


“It’s been good to get away and spend 10 days together and get some good training under our belts, so it’s achieved its purpose.”


Inness said that one of the more pleasing aspects of the camp has been seeing a full squad out on the park.


“We’ve had some guys who were in long term rehab but they’ve come back and they’re training really well.


“We’ve had pretty much the whole group training throughout the whole camp so that’s been really positive for us.”


The Bulldogs will take on the Greater Western Sydney Giants in the first NAB Challenge match on Thursday, February 25 at Manuka Oval in Canberra.

[bornadog]

The next open training session at Victoria University Whitten Oval will be held from 1:30pm (approx) on Tuesday 9 February 2016, for approximately one hour.

[Twodogs]

Innes has a linear progression. Conditioning, high performance, Footscray, high performance western bulldogs.

[Mofra]

Innes has a linear progression. Conditioning, high performance, Footscray, high performance western bulldogs.
The clear next step is "High Performance with reigning premiers Western Bulldogs"

[Twodogs]

The clear next step is "High Performance with reigning premiers Western Bulldogs"

He already has the "High Performance Manager with VFL premiers Footscray" tucked away. So he got them to perform at a very high level.

[bornadog]

Dogs head to Ballarat for a couple of days: details here (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-02-15/dogs-ballaratbound)

[LostDoggy]

In an article on afl.com.au, all the teams had 3-4 players nominated as pre-season stars.

Ryan Davidson (who always covers us and seems pretty well informed) nominated our stand-outs as Tom Campbell (gets a big rap from Steven King, who reckons his hunger is up and has really good GPS stats), Bailey Dale (has added 8 kg of much needed muscle and improved endurance) and Tom Liberatore ('flawless').

[Mofra]

Interesting, so many different opinions on who is flying.
Libba is unanimous, but heard really good things about Caleb Daniel & JJ, others said McLean was flying yet he had a quiet intra-club day by all accounts (although didn't Morris got o him for a bit?)

[LostDoggy]

Interesting, so many different opinions on who is flying.
Libba is unanimous, but heard really good things about Caleb Daniel & JJ, others said McLean was flying yet he had a quiet intra-club day by all accounts (although didn't Morris got o him for a bit?)

That's true. It's been a most intriguing pre-season, in a good way, with all the closed training sessions, positions up for grabs and a super exciting crop of 1st and 2nd year players to really push our depth.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

In an article on afl.com.au, all the teams had 3-4 players nominated as pre-season stars.

Ryan Davidson (who always covers us and seems pretty well informed) nominated our stand-outs as Tom Campbell (gets a big rap from Steven King, who reckons his hunger is up and has really good GPS stats), Bailey Dale (has added 8 kg of much needed muscle and improved endurance) and Tom Liberatore ('flawless').

The game that Tom Campbell played where he kicked a couple of goals and nearly busted a goal post trying to get to the ball, showed his intensity and near maniacal endeavour. I haven't seen that level of commitment from him since but that game proved he has it. It would be great to see again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqBZQ4Cl0nA

[strebla]

What a train trip home that was train full of doggies my number 9 on my back gee I was happy happy happy that day !!!

[LostDoggy]

I'll be checking out the training session tomorrow morning in Ballarat. Will report back anything of note!

[Cyberdoggie]

The game that Tom Campbell played where he kicked a couple of goals and nearly busted a goal post trying to get to the ball, showed his intensity and near maniacal endeavour. I haven't seen that level of commitment from him since but that game proved he has it. It would be great to see again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqBZQ4Cl0nA

He looked to have some of that endeavour back in the intra club videos. Most of the highlights involve T.C. busting open a stoppage and getting it out to Wallis or others.

[bornadog]

I'll be checking out the training session tomorrow morning in Ballarat. Will report back anything of note!

At Ballarat Library,Official launch of Read programme

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbTKzSqVAAA5X88.jpg:large

[bornadog]

At miners rest Primary

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbThfAGUUAAIUGo.jpg:large

[LostDoggy]

At Ballarat Library,Official launch of Read programme

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbTKzSqVAAA5X88.jpg:large
Great to see. Might just be a few lifelong Dogs fans in that group as a result of that. May seem silly, but I like us sending talls to the Primary Schools/Libraries, increases the sense of awe. I remember in 1979 Steve Taubert, Barry Round and Mark Browning came to Spotswood Primary School, they just seemed like gods to us (shame they were Swans though).

[Twodogs]

At Ballarat Library,Official launch of Read programme

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CbTKzSqVAAA5X88.jpg:large

I count 39 kids but only 37 caps. If the kids didn't want to wear the caps then they don't get in the photo!!!!

[Twodogs]

What a train trip home that was train full of doggies my number 9 on my back gee I was happy happy happy that day !!!


Which game was this?

[Axe Man]

Great to see. Might just be a few lifelong Dogs fans in that group as a result of that. May seem silly, but I like us sending talls to the Primary Schools/Libraries, increases the sense of awe. I remember in 1979 Steve Taubert, Barry Round and Mark Browning came to Spotswood Primary School, they just seemed like gods to us (shame they were Swans though).

Is that Caleb Daniel at the back or just one of the taller kids? :)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Interesting, so many different opinions on who is flying.
Libba is unanimous, but heard really good things about Caleb Daniel & JJ, others said McLean was flying yet he had a quiet intra-club day by all accounts (although didn't Morris got o him for a bit?)

Daniel looked absolutely terrific on the weekend, he's set for a strong season and I think we're all going to be very glad he's on our side - if we're not already.

McLean was quiet but still did some nice things. I thought he worked himself into the game in the second half, wouldn't worry too much.

[F'scary]

Anyone with questions on McLean's ability, recommended viewing is the 2nd St Kilda and the Carlton games last year. The bloke is going to be a real star for us.

[Bulldog Joe]

Is that Caleb Daniel at the back or just one of the taller kids? :)

I had to have another look to realise it was Caleb.

[LostDoggy]

I count 39 kids but only 37 caps. If the kids didn't want to wear the caps then they don't get in the photo!!!!

Why arn't those teachers on board?!!!

[Testekill]

Interesting, so many different opinions on who is flying.
Libba is unanimous, but heard really good things about Caleb Daniel & JJ, others said McLean was flying yet he had a quiet intra-club day by all accounts (although didn't Morris got o him for a bit?)


Sounds like Morris gave McLean a bath which I wouldn't be too worried about, Morris has shut out far more experienced forwards throughout his career.

[bornadog]

Bonti was interviewed on Ch9 news tonight from Ballarat, gee he speaks well for a young bloke.

[LostDoggy]

We've been giving the media a flogging the last few days. Bont on 9 tonight, Stringer was on 7 news with Stevo last night, Bevo on SEN this morning, a whole bunch in Ballarat, Redpath and Macrae doing press.

Good to see.

[strebla]

1985 at Kardinia park we won by 20 odd points and Lally kicked 5 I think Beaser kicked 5 or 6 as well .

[kruder]

Anyone with questions on McLean's ability, recommended viewing is the 2nd St Kilda and the Carlton games last year. The bloke is going to be a real star for us.

Liam Jones dominated a preseason game once. It was if all previous form was forgotten over the preseason. I'm not sure id take too much out of an intra club bar the fact Libba got through.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Which game was this?

Tom Campbell v goalpost game Western Bulldogs v Carlton, Rd 20, 2013

[LostDoggy]

Went and checked out training today

Started at 9.30 and they were done by about 10.45. Was spitting rain pretty much the whole time.

Those who I didn't see included M Boyd, Morris, Picken, Redpath and Jong. Although a couple of players were doing run throughs over the other side of the ground. Couldn't make them out.

Was a stock standard session really, they started off with the opposite foot kicking drill. The skill level was very high.

They then broke into 3 even teams. 1 team did a handball drill on there own whilst the other 2 teams played some half ground match simulation. They rotated so every team had a chance to do the handball drill.
Roughy was playing in the ruck. Webb was mostly down forward. The 2 standouts for me were Wallis and Daniel. Daniel has been hyped up alot this preseason and now I know why. Very skillful, won the hardball and finished off around goals. Wood also looks in senstional condition. He looks set for another massive year.

They ended the session doing a keepings off kicking drill. Was about 5 on 8 so the 5 chasing had to work hard. After around 5 minutes they broke out and did 400 metre runs, then got straight back into it. Obviously testing the kicking and decision making whlist fatigued.

Roughy and Bont stayed back while the others went to mingle with the crowd and sign autographs. They were working with Joel Corey and Stephen King doing some ballup work. King and Roughy would battle for the hitout and Bont and Corey would be roving.

T Boyd did the full session but had the pink no contact jacket on. Collins also did the full session.

Wasn't a huge turnout, think the weather turned a few away. Was a nice touch having one of the staff members walk around the ground and give out free tickets to the Round 1 match.

[Twodogs]

Great report Jaytee, thanks heaps.

The skill level at training really seems to have lifted a notch. Earlier there was lots of running and long range kicking.

[merantau]

Bonti was interviewed on Ch9 news tonight from Ballarat, gee he speaks well for a young bloke.
Agree totally. I can see him as a future Club Captain.

[bornadog]

This week's open training session will be held at Victoria University Whitten Oval on Saturday 5 March, from 10:00am (approx.).

[LostDoggy]

This week's open training session will be held at Victoria University Whitten Oval on Saturday 5 March, from 10:00am (approx.).

Given we play the next day, should be a fairly gentle session.

[Twodogs]

Given we play the next day, should be a fairly gentle session.

Bevo does go for the unexpected though.

[Cyberdoggie]

Bevo does go for the unexpected though.

Would it be with the whole group or just the ones that aren't playing?

If previous years are to go by and the GWS game seems no different. This week we will likely play all the kids against Melbourne and those that didn't play last week.

If that is the case then you may see all the senior guys and those not playing do a hard match intensity style training at W.O.

[bornadog]

Would it be with the whole group or just the ones that aren't playing?

If previous years are to go by and the GWS game seems no different. This week we will likely play all the kids against Melbourne and those that didn't play last week.

If that is the case then you may see all the senior guys and those not playing do a hard match intensity style training at W.O.

Melbourne have stated they will field strong teams during the NAB Challenge, so expect us to lose this week. The important thing is to get some game time into the new draftees.

[Mantis]

Melbourne have stated they will field strong teams during the NAB Challenge, so expect us to lose this week. The important thing is to get some game time into the new draftees.

That's ok.. Will have to check the bookie's odds and load up on the Dees.

Like Lachie Hunter's mate I did so last year as the bookies had us as the favourites even with a large number of 1st 22 players missing.. Had a nice little collect.

[Twodogs]

Would it be with the whole group or just the ones that aren't playing?

If previous years are to go by and the GWS game seems no different. This week we will likely play all the kids against Melbourne and those that didn't play last week.

If that is the case then you may see all the senior guys and those not playing do a hard match intensity style training at W.O.

Yeah, thinking about it there will be a significant number of senior players not playing that will need a decent run. They will probably play tge five a side team games.


That's ok.. Will have to check the bookie's odds and load up on the Dees.

Like Lachie Hunter's mate I did so last year as the bookies had us as the favourites even with a large number of 1st 22 players missing.. Had a nice little collect.

Not on Lochie's phone account I hope.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Anyone at training? How's it going?

[bornadog]

This week's open training session will be held at Victoria University Whitten Oval on Tuesday 8 March at 4:00pm, and Friday 11 March from 10:00am.


Thursday's training session will be a closed session. - See more at: http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/#sthash.b3TLlGOu.dpuf

[LostDoggy]

Did anyone manage to get down to training today?

[bornadog]

This week's open training session will be held at Victoria University Whitten Oval on Tuesday 15 March at 3:30pm.

Thursday's training session will be a closed session.

The club appreciates the understanding of all members and supporters towards our players and coaching staff being allowed to conduct training in private to allow the Club's optimal preparation for the AFL Premiership Season, and apologise for any inconvenience caused.

The club endeavours to open at least one training session for supporters each week in-season and during pre-season.

All open training times are published on westernbulldogs.com.au. Please not all times published are approximate and subject to change at late notice.

[Twodogs]

This week's open training session will be held at Victoria University Whitten Oval on Tuesday 15 March at 3:30pm.

Thursday's training session will be a closed session.

The club appreciates the understanding of all members and supporters towards our players and coaching staff being allowed to conduct training in private to allow the Club's optimal preparation for the AFL Premiership Season, and apologise for any inconvenience caused.

The club endeavours to open at least one training session for supporters each week in-season and during pre-season.

All open training times are published on westernbulldogs.com.au. Please not all times published are approximate and subject to change at late notice.




So if not all times published are approximate then we had better be on time for training sessions.

Or some are and some aren't?