Is this the most talented list you've seen in your lifetime?

[Mofra]

Honestly, is it?

There are a lot of variables left - our best 22 is really just a crapshoot at this stage and there are probably 35 guys who will push for positions - but I can't recall a time where the last 5 spots in the best 22 are so contested by genuinely talented players.

When guys like Macrae & Hunter - who would arguably be our best two potentials in other eras - are being outshone by other talented kids like Stringer & Bonti it is cause for genuine excitement.

The Eade era had locked in back six with Morris-Lake-Hargrave-Gilbee-Williams-Harbrow at their peak the best defensive unit I've seen in Bulldog colours but were let down elsewhere, particularly the lack of a genuine KPF team.
Other eras we always seemed to be a position or two short but post 2015 draft we now genuinely have claims to filling every spot on the field and having depth in that position, albeit in some parts with developing players.

[Twodogs]

For all out talent, 1985 still floats my boat. The best spine, the best rover, one of the best ruckman, a mean lean backline that hated having goals kicked against it, Beasley out of the goalsquare kicking the ton, Jimmy Sewell marking everything at CHF Bamblett cleaning up anything he mised. Wallis in the middle, Dougie on the wing. That team had it all.

What this list has better than any other list I've seen is a better bottom six on the list and in the 22. I can't even figure out a best 22, let alone who the bottom six are.

[bornadog]

This team has the best potential to have sustained success over a number of years, and the good thing is they are all young (nearly all)

If the recruits of 2015 prove they are capable of playing AFL, then yes I would agree with OP. Until then, Twodogs is spot on with 1985. Unfortunately the 1985 team couldn't be sustained, it was a once off.

[Ghost Dog]

Doesn't take a lot of Mr Sheen to polish our silverware. Here's hoping we make an extension to the trophy cabinet soon.

[LostDoggy]

Potentially the best squad I can remember. So many possible up and coming stars. Bontempelli,stringer, Libba, McRae & hunter to name a few.

[Twodogs]

Potentially the best squad I can remember. So many possible up and coming stars. Bontempelli,stringer, Libba, McRae & hunter to name a few.

One thing this list has going for it that only a couple of other lists has had is Bontempelli is on it.

[boydogs]

Interesting choice of words with "talented". A little different to best, most depth, most balanced, most promising, hardest working etc.

The 1997 side came across as blue collar workers up for the fight. The 2009 side was electric with attacking play and high scoring. I would have to say 2009 is the clubhouse leader for proven talent.

The current list shows promise, is well balanced and has good depth, but the most remarkable thing about it is the similarity in age between the group. Many of them will peak together, which could produce a side beyond any we have ever seen

[bulldogtragic]

The kids I watched at the WO in the early and mid 1990's onwards were pretty good.

West, Grant, Johnson, West. Older players like Hawkins, Wynd, Romero, Libba, Hudson & Super. Good honest sorts like Southern, Osborne and kids towards the end like Judas Brown and the 1999 crop.

This talent is pound for pound as good. When we think of the list for next year, think one more year ahead. Say Minson, Boyd and two or three others go off the primary for 2017. Add in another decent free agent, first rounder, favourable trade and some cash to splash about - if we can keep this core group together, Libba, Koby and/or Smith get back to fitness and form, Roughy finds his best role and natural development through next year, and Tom Boyd, Stringer & Bonts becoming the three best players in the AFL then the question of this thread is an easier question for 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023.

[Ghost Dog]

One of the biggest dangers we face is these kids getting ahead of themselves.
The coaching team is going to have to put in place measures to make sure they don't ski along on talent
and I don't know how they do that but it's great we have guys like Jed Adcock to guide them.

You can be the best team in the comp and still not get there. Geelong 2008.

[craigsahibee]

There is no doubt that this crop has the "potential" to be the best. Dangerous word that, and it will be up to the coaching staff to keep them in check. When Libba, Wallis, Stringer, Hunter, Macrae, Boyd, Bontempelli, Wood, Roughead, Dahlhaus, etc hit that 24 - 28 year old age bracket, look out. We will be feared and respected by every other club and their supporters.

[Ozza]

Short answer - yes. With the large caveat being that word 'potential'.

The team in Eade's era missed out on Chris Grant at his best.
Plough's era probably didn't bat quite deep enough for high end talent through the midfield.

The list looks as well placed as I have seen it with 3 or 4 players who could genuinely be top 10-15 players in the competition.

[Mofra]

The list looks as well placed as I have seen it with 3 or 4 players who could genuinely be top 10-15 players in the competition.
Interesting to ask who.
I'm thinking:
Bonti (well durr)
Stringer
Libba (A grade clearance player if he can get back to his best)

In their position:
Boyd (size, mobility & judgement of the ball)
Wood (arguably the best HBFer in the competition right now)

Very good:
Macrae, Dahl & Hunter.
Honorable mention to Dickson - anyone who kicks 50 goals in modern football is very good

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's a bit of a throw away line, but if we can't make a Grand Final with the makings of this list (let alone win one) then I am not sure we'll ever see one in our lifetime.

We don't have too many weaknesses, particularly if this most recent crop of draftees can produce. Replacing Murphy will be nigh on impossible, but I think we can 'cover' Boyd and Morris.

A lot can quickly change but our depth looks very strong, as noted above by the 'bottom 6'. It'd have to be one the of the best lists in the AFL based primarily on this and potential.

We need to strike while the iron is hot from this point forward. Top 4 is a realistic objective for 2016 and from that point you can win the flag.

[Ozza]

Interesting to ask who.
I'm thinking:
Bonti (well durr)
Stringer
Libba (A grade clearance player if he can get back to his best)

In their position:
Boyd (size, mobility & judgement of the ball)
Wood (arguably the best HBFer in the competition right now)

Very good:
Macrae, Dahl & Hunter.
Honorable mention to Dickson - anyone who kicks 50 goals in modern football is very good

Yep - that's pretty much my thoughts.

Certainly Stringer & Bonti could be absolutely elite.
Macrae & Libba don't have their 'brilliance' - but they are the type of players who could win a brownlow medal and/or be high up in B&F's year after year. (They are the Scott West to String/Bonts' - Grant/Johnno)

Time will tell on Boyd. The recruiters had him as a 'once in a generation forward'....

[Ghost Dog]

What excites me is we have a few background players who are far from reaching their peak. Biggs, Redpath, Jong, Campbell, all players who have improved a lot. Love a few of these to come out and upend expectations. Gosh it's a great time to be a Bulldogs fan.

[Twodogs]

We've turned the ship around fairly quickly to make the finals with a bullet from the wreckage of a failed prelim in 2010. Especially given the mismatch in resources and draft picks compared to the start up clubs in that time.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

This list is the best I've seen in our colours. The evenness of the talent is such that very good players won't get picked and that is very telling. If your bottom six players win you premierships, then we are well placed. It has been drafted for character so it's talent is reinforced with mental strength that can perform when needed most and backs up team mates. Its coach seems to be one of our best. He can bond the group, earn respect, communicate well and is a good tactician. The youth of the group, with a lot a similar age yet with some great senior players is a great addition to this team. The team is supported by a stable administration of a club with a good image for playing by the rules.
This team is a chance to win the flag this year, I don't expect it but it wouldn't surprise me. However it would seem that it won't peak for a few years yet.

[bornadog]

One thing about this crop of players is they are not only stars, but they are a team.

They are united in their cause and they have hunger for success not hunger for individual accolades.

Read the article on Tory Dickson (Team first (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2015-12-03/teamfirst-tory)) and listen to him on 3aw here (http://www.3aw.com.au/news/tory-dick...02-gldwos.html)

In the past we had stars, and plenty of Brownlows but not many TEAMS

[lemmon]

I say yes with a caveat-we really are desperate for Boyd to become an elite full forward. We will have a lot of cap space tied up in the big man and we don't have anyone on the list with the same elite potential as a mark taking full forward. Chris Grant was the pivot around which the 97 and 98 sides functioned, I'm not saying Boyd will have to be the same player but he will have to take on that same importance within the club - very much like Hawkins did at Geelong and Kennedy has now at West Coast.

I'm content with the progress the big man has made but the reason for the caveat is that Stringer, Macrae, Bonti, Libba, Hunter etc have all starred consistently at AFL level which is where Boyd has to get too

[craigsahibee]

There is no doubt that this crop has the "potential" to be the best. Dangerous word that, and it will be up to the coaching staff to keep them in check. When Libba, Wallis, Stringer, Hunter, Macrae, Boyd, Bontempelli, Wood, Roughead, Dahlhaus, etc hit that 24 - 28 year old age bracket, look out. We will be feared and respected by every other club and their supporters.

Apologies to JJ. I should have added him to that list.

[Twodogs]

One thing about this crop of players is they are not only stars, but they are a team.

They are united in their cause and they have hunger for success not hunger for individual accolades.

Read the article on Tory Dickson (Team first (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2015-12-03/teamfirst-tory)) and listen to him on 3aw here (http://www.3aw.com.au/news/tory-dick...02-gldwos.html)

In the past we had stars, and plenty of Brownlows but not many TEAMS

I genuinly couldn't care less about our players winning Brownlows any more. Good luck to any player who does but I want a flag.

[Remi Moses]

Easily for me. No disrespect to other sides we've had, but this side has some elite talent in it.
I think 85 had Doug as our elite talent, and some very good players.
Injuries,attitude, and the big boy standing up at full forward will be telling .

[LostDoggy]

In terms of talent this side for mine is best by a margin. That is tremendously exciting, but just hope to hell that we don't look back at them and say that they were simply talented. Talent means SFA, it's all about realisation.

[1eyedog]

We have the talent. It is potentially the most talented list I've ever seen wearing the red, white and blue. It really could be a team of champions in a few years, but much comes down to what Bevo can do with it. Can he turn a team of champions into a champion team ala. Hawthorn of the 80s. That's what I want to see, three premierships in 5 years.

[comrade]

We have the talent. It is potentially the most talented list I've ever seen wearing the red, white and blue. It really could be a team of champions in a few years, but much comes down to what Bevo can do with it. Can he turn a team of champions into a champion team ala. Hawthorn of the 80s. That's what I want to see, three premierships in 5 years.

I'll take 1 and reassess from there :D

[Dry Rot]

I agree there's plenty of talent there, but question the distribution of it.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I like teams with good spines. Including a good CHF, which we don't have. And a good ruck man.

We'll know a lot more about our spine at the end of next season.

[FrediKanoute]

For all out talent, 1985 still floats my boat. The best spine, the best rover, one of the best ruckman, a mean lean backline that hated having goals kicked against it, Beasley out of the goalsquare kicking the ton, Jimmy Sewell marking everything at CHF Bamblett cleaning up anything he mised. Wallis in the middle, Dougie on the wing. That team had it all.

What this list has better than any other list I've seen is a better bottom six on the list and in the 22. I can't even figure out a best 22, let alone who the bottom six are.

Agree......1985 how that list never achieved more than 1 Prelim is beyond me.

[jeemak]

I say yes with a caveat-we really are desperate for Boyd to become an elite full forward. We will have a lot of cap space tied up in the big man and we don't have anyone on the list with the same elite potential as a mark taking full forward. Chris Grant was the pivot around which the 97 and 98 sides functioned, I'm not saying Boyd will have to be the same player but he will have to take on that same importance within the club - very much like Hawkins did at Geelong and Kennedy has now at West Coast.

I'm content with the progress the big man has made but the reason for the caveat is that Stringer, Macrae, Bonti, Libba, Hunter etc have all starred consistently at AFL level which is where Boyd has to get too

It will be interesting to see whether going hell for leather for Boyd as our pivotal forward will be a master stroke in two ways - gun forward, or second ruck that can kick a few a game (almost the most valuable player on any list) or a bust, or a bad investment. I'm prepared to wait a few years to find that out.

That's one of the most exciting things about our list for mine. Whilst we're all thirsty for quick improvement and potential to be realised soon, we're still a good two or three years away from it in my view.

What I will say in relation to the thread title, is that this is the best list I've seen from a talent profile perspective. The deeds of these men are yet to be seen and that talent is yet to be realised in full however, we have drafted/traded-in these men as genuinely talented players who can do the things that make footballers great.

I've been hell bent in my list assessments through the most recent draft and trade periods stating we need to lift our talent profile irrespective of the draft position and needs. In my view, we've done that spectacularly.

[bornadog]

double

[bornadog]

I will add to the discussion by saying, we have a pretty good coach as well. If we win the premiership, then we can say the best coach since Sutton.


I will also stick my neck out and say Peter Gordon must be ranked as one of the best Presidents we have ever had. The club is truly in one of the best states in our 130 year history.

[merantau]

One thing this list has going for it that only a couple of other lists has had is Bontempelli is on it.

Thanks for posting link to the Ogilvies.
Les Kew Ming (ex North Melb) who went to Echuca) is mentioned a couple of times. His grandparents came over from China during the gold rushes.He was by all accounts a very fine player. An early edition of the Guiness Book of Records noted that in 1928 he bare footed a 74 yard torpedo at the Echuca Showgrounds. I've met two old timers in Bendigo who saw Kew Ming play and they confirm he was a beautiful kick. There is a "Kew Ming Lane" on the outskirts of Ararat.

[Twodogs]

Thanks for posting link to the Ogilvies.
Les Kew Ming (ex North Melb) who went to Echuca) is mentioned a couple of times. His grandparents came over from China during the gold rushes.He was by all accounts a very fine player. An early edition of the Guiness Book of Records noted that in 1928 he bare footed a 74 yard torpedo at the Echuca Showgrounds. I've met two old timers in Bendigo who saw Kew Ming play and they confirm he was a beautiful kick. There is a "Kew Ming Lane" on the outskirts of Ararat.

Thanks for the info on Les Kew Ming Meranau. Do you know which club in Bendigo he played for?

[LostDoggy]

I'm a bit reluctant to jump the gun.. I remember bragging to every man and his dog about our midfield of Cooney, Griffen, Higgins & Ward and how they will dominate for 12 years.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm a bit reluctant to jump the gun.. I remember bragging to every man and his dog about our midfield of Cooney, Griffen, Higgins & Ward and how they will dominate for 12 years.

Yes I'm the same. A team of stars does not make a star team. Sticking to a plan, a strategy, having the discipline to stay the distance- this is not yet proven. We haven't won anything yet, and people would be quite happy to pat us on the head with our performance last season, keep us as their second team that jags the odd great win but doesn't challenge.

We want to dominate this comp for years and make opposition hate us. I want Hawthorn to hate playing us, Geelong to hate playing us, and West coast to dread the trip. I want us to travel anywhere in the country and beat Freo, Sydney and expect to beat them more often than not.

[Webby]

Our 1977 list contained talent to burn..

Hawkins, Quinlan, Dempsey, Templeton, Whitten Jnr, Jennings, Stoneham, Wheeler, Dunstan, Wilson (?) etc. etc. but we didn't have the culture, the game plan, the work ethic or ambition to achieve anything.

I'd like to ask the question: "Is this the list that is prepared to believe it can be done and to work for each other to get there?"
For me, that's 99% of the battle at AFL level.

[jeemak]

It's interesting. Does talent have a bigger impact now than what it did say, in 1977?

I'm probably a little bit different in my thinking than you Webby, I think talent is the major factor now.

[merantau]

Thanks for the info on Les Kew Ming Meranau. Do you know which club in Bendigo he played for?
TD, I'm not sure that he played for a Bendigo club but he definitely played on the Queen Elizabeth Oval in Bendigo because I used to host trivia nights in Bendigo and as an intro, before the real comp began, I would ask the audience my favourite trivia question of all time. And bugger me if Mina Pocock, who was in her late 80s at the time, piped up and said, "Oh, that'd be Kew Ming. He was a lovely kick. I can still see him dashing down the wing at the QEO. Lovely head of black hair ..."
I nearly fell over! To think there was someone who not only knew the answer but had actually seen him play! Ray Turner, who was a great Bendigo sportsman also knew of Kew Ming and I think he said he played a season for Kerang. I will ask at the Chinese Museum if they have any info.

[Twodogs]

TD, I'm not sure that he played for a Bendigo club but he definitely played on the Queen Elizabeth Oval in Bendigo because I used to host trivia nights in Bendigo and as an intro, before the real comp began, I would ask the audience my favourite trivia question of all time. And bugger me if Mina Pocock, who was in her late 80s at the time, piped up and said, "Oh, that'd be Kew Ming. He was a lovely kick. I can still see him dashing down the wing at the QEO. Lovely head of black hair ..."
I nearly fell over! To think there was someone who not only knew the answer but had actually seen him play! Ray Turner, who was a great Bendigo sportsman also knew of Kew Ming and I think he said he played a season for Kerang. I will ask at the Chinese Museum if they have any info.


That'd be great mate. Thanks.

[Greystache]

It's interesting. Does talent have a bigger impact now than what it did say, in 1977?

I'm probably a little bit different in my thinking than you Webby, I think talent is the major factor now.

Good question, one that could be debated for hours.

In the past talent was what separated good players from battlers. There were virtually no tactics, players preparations were hardly elite, and all in all the most talented team usually won. That being said there was probably more opportunity to gain an advantage over more talented players by training harder and being fitter than the players of the day.

Today most of the players are of similar levels of fitness and preparation, which helps talent stand out, but tactics reduce the effect individuals can have.

I'd probably lean towards talent being more important in yesteryear.

[merantau]

TD, I've just spoken with Lee McKinnon, the research officer at the Chinese Museum in Bendigo and he is researching Les Kew Ming at the moment mainly from the point of view of his war service as he was awarded the Military Medal in WW 1. He is happy to share info with you and told me quite a lot about Les Kew Ming's family. His email is : research@goldendragonmuseum.org

[bornadog]

TD, I've just spoken with Lee McKinnon, the research officer at the Chinese Museum in Bendigo and he is researching Les Kew Ming at the moment mainly from the point of view of his war service as he was awarded the Military Medal in WW 1. He is happy to share info with you and told me quite a lot about Les Kew Ming's family. His email is : research@goldendragonmuseum.org

Here is the story of Les: here (http://australianfootball.com/articles/view/Les%2BKew%2BMing%2B%25E2%2580%2593%2Bthe%2Bfighting%2Bfootba ller%2B/469)

http://australianfootball.com/uploads/default/images/page_content/2013/07/9078a.Les_Kew_Ming_cig_card_1922.JPG

[bornadog]

And bugger me if Mina Pocock, who was in her late 80s at the time, piped up and said, "Oh, that'd be Kew Ming..

Was she related to the great Ron Pocock, the Harness Horse trainer?

[jeemak]

Good question, one that could be debated for hours.

In the past talent was what separated good players from battlers. There were virtually no tactics, players preparations were hardly elite, and all in all the most talented team usually won. That being said there was probably more opportunity to gain an advantage over more talented players by training harder and being fitter than the players of the day.

Today most of the players are of similar levels of fitness and preparation, which helps talent stand out, but tactics reduce the effect individuals can have.

I'd probably lean towards talent being more important in yesteryear.

I agree with you that tactics, coaching and structures etc. even up the competition a fair bit, as does the physical work put into the players which would be reasonably uniform across the competition. Obviously some coaches are head and shoulders above others in terms of strategy and man management, and these factors play a huge part alongside the negation of talent through tactics.

Talent is a variable which isn't uniform, as is list profile (age, physical and personality) so how much can these two things be reacted against if they're in the elite bracket?

You're right, it could go on forever......

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think this is the most sparkling line up of talent I've seen.

The big pivotal factor is Tom Boyd.

If he delivers what a number 1 draft pick should, I think that will tip the scales to a definite yes.

Having said that, gee the 1977 lineup looks pretty amazing.

[Bulldog4life]

Talking about talent Bonti will be on channel 9 news sport tonight in about half an hour,

[merantau]

Was she related to the great Ron Pocock, the Harness Horse trainer?
Not sure but I'll find out. All her family are Dogs supporters.