One year ban for Crameri

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Got news that 34 players have received a one year ban from WADA

[Mofra]

James Hird's legacy now hurting other clubs.
Dammit. He almost had a shorter offer on the table too didn't he?

[Ozza]

Shattering for Crameri - and all the players involved.

Crameri really starting to hit his peak as a footballer too, and a really important player for us.

[bulldogtragic]

Why didn't he take the slap on wrist? Bloody hell.

[stefoid]

Suddenly Adcocks recruitment makes sense.

[Ozza]

Why didn't he take the slap on wrist? Bloody hell.

Easy for us to say 'take the slap on the wrist'... and put your former team mates in it, and live with that, and the label of being a drug cheat.

[bulldogtragic]

Easy for us to say 'take the slap on the wrist'... and put your former team mates in it, and live with that, and the label of being a drug cheat.

Well, as long as that gets him through training for 18 months until the 2017 starts. But I take your point.

[LostDoggy]

I think we have to cop it sweet. He'll be back this time next year, fit and strong. A lot of guys who miss a year at this stage of their careers only seem to go on for longer. Of course it's rotten for Stewie, but the boys will get around him and he'll be back bigger and better.

It must be a weird time for him and the other 33 now (although they got a taste of it last preseason) as they are not just banned from playing, but also from training at the club or being involved in any professional capacity.

[soupman]

I think we have to cop it sweet. He'll be back this time next year, fit and strong. A lot of guys who miss a year at this stage of their careers only seem to go on for longer. Of course it's rotten for Stewie, but the boys will get around him and he'll be back bigger and better.

It must be a weird time for him and the other 33 now (although they got a taste of it last preseason) as they are not just banned from playing, but also from training at the club or being involved in any professional capacity.
That must be the weirdest thing. They must feel like real outcast, imagine all of a sudden being told "no you cannot come to work or be at the club for the next year".

You would imagine there will be far less than 12 of these players left on Essendons list come the next time they can play.

[bulldogtragic]

So can we upgrade Adcock now. Plus upgrade another player if we want while Smith is on the LTI list. Can we go and get a state league player to replace Stew?

Who is left at state league level? Mitch Thorpe? Panos? How about Footscray players?

Do we move Roughead forward and ruck now?

[Ozza]

That must be the weirdest thing. They must feel like real outcast, imagine all of a sudden being told "no you cannot come to work or be at the club for the next year".

You would imagine there will be far less than 12 of these players left on Essendons list come the next time they can play.

Will be the longest year of his life.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

And Prismall?

[bornadog]

So can we upgrade Adcock now. Plus upgrade another player if we want while Smith is on the LTI list. Can we go and get a state league player to replace Stew?

Who is left at state league level? Mitch Thorpe? Panos? How about Footscray players?

Do we move Roughead forward and ruck now?

Should have kept Grant, he belongs in the forward line but had to compete with Crameri and Stringer.

[LostDoggy]

And Prismall?

Yep. He's on the list too.

[bornadog]

Club statement


the western bulldogs have received a copy of the arbitral award delivered by the court of arbitration for sport this morning.

The club is intently studying the reasons for judgement insofar as they apply to stewart crameri and brent prismall.


The club will make further comment when, in consultation with our players we have determined a course of action.

[LostDoggy]

Do the crime, do the time. It sucks, I feel for the guy, but on the other hand I feel more for the sport, and that's the important issue here.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I do feel for the players, given the lengthy drawn out process and the harsh punishment some 3 or so years later. They've suffered quite a bit already, it surprises me a little that they got whacked with this. Although I do think it's justified too, if that makes sense.

From our perspective, it's a big loss. Can only imagine how Stew must be feeling, will be a very very challenging year for him. I don't like that the players can't be around the club - should have been some slack given here - their welfare is important and outcasting them (particularly those at other clubs) is wrong.

[Topdog]

Feel sorry for him but he really should have taken the plea when offered.

[AndrewP6]

Tough for him, but for sport it is the right result. We knew the risk when we picked him up.

[LostDoggy]

List-wise, I think we've got the coverage for Stew. We should really only be concerned with his welfare. He can't be around the club in a professional capacity, I'm sure the boys can get around him and ensure he's kept in the family. Jake Stringer is on Twitter this morning voicing his support for his "brother", and I'd be confident he'd have many others as well all looking out for him.

[Sedat]

I hope the club does everything possible to look after his personal welfare away from footy. Come 2017, he will be cherry ripe to help us in our quest to go back-to-back.

[bulldogtragic]

We can replace him with a rookie immediately. Adcock I imagine.

Wouldn't mind Jarrad Grant about now somewhere on the list. But I digress.

Who takes the spot, Redpath or Roughead resting forward? Roberts?

[Grantysghost]

Bombers allowed to sign 10 new players and granted extra TPP ( Salary Cap ). Dogs, Saints, Power, Melbourne allowed rookie upgrade.

[Remi Moses]

Should have taken the plea .
Cronulla did,and the players would still be copping flak regardless of taking the plea or not.
I'd guarantee fans would still be taking shots at the players .

[G-Mo77]

Bombers allowed to sign 10 new players and granted extra TPP ( Salary Cap ). Dogs, Saints, Power, Melbourne allowed rookie upgrade.

We should be allowed to sign one as well.

[bulldogtragic]

We should be allowed to sign one as well.

Exactly. Good point.

[LostDoggy]

We should be allowed to sign one as well.

I agree. Port must be livid, they've lost 2 from their list. They did take the chance (with Ryder at least) but still would've expected to at least replace with a rookie. How is it that the club who are responsible will have a full list numerically next year, but others won't?

[G-Mo77]

I agree. Port must be livid, they've lost 2 from their list. They did take the chance (with Ryder at least) but still would've expected to at least replace with a rookie. How is it that the club who are responsible will have a full list numerically next year, but others won't?

Yep. That's what pisses me off. We're one down from a list number perspective. Port 2 down and Saints, Dees in the same boat. We also lose our welfare officer.

[The Underdog]

I agree. Port must be livid, they've lost 2 from their list. They did take the chance (with Ryder at least) but still would've expected to at least replace with a rookie. How is it that the club who are responsible will have a full list numerically next year, but others won't?

Essendon had 12 players suspended, will replace with 10 is my understanding.
We're pretty thin for numbers with Smith and Smith out of action and Lynch and Goetz exceptionally green. Although it would take a pretty disastrous injury run to get there.

[bornadog]

Yep. That's what pisses me off. We're one down from a list number perspective. Port 2 down and Saints, Dees in the same boat. We also lose our welfare officer.

Saints have paid dearly for Carlisle :)

[LostDoggy]

Essendon had 12 players suspended, will replace with 10 is my understanding.
We're pretty thin for numbers with Smith and Smith out of action and Lynch and Goetz exceptionally green. Although it would take a pretty disastrous injury run to get there.

OK. That's fairer at least. Jeez what kind of a rabble are they going to be?

[bulldogtragic]

OK. That's fairer at least. Jeez what kind of a rabble are they going to be?

But spare a thought for the state league teams whose premiership attempt could be less likely with a very good player or two poached for a drug cheating afl club. We can say that now without being sued, drug cheating afl club.

[G-Mo77]

Saints have paid dearly for Carlisle :)

Haven't they ever. We dodged a massive bullet there.

[Ozza]

I agree. Port must be livid, they've lost 2 from their list. They did take the chance (with Ryder at least) but still would've expected to at least replace with a rookie. How is it that the club who are responsible will have a full list numerically next year, but others won't?

If Essendon can sign up 10 players - doesn't that mean they will be 2 short (seeing as they have 12 suspended players) ?

Essendon & Port will be 2 short.
Dogs, Saints, Dees will be one short.

Pretty logical really. They have kept Essendon 2 short so that they are at least equal in list numbers to the next most affected club.
Collingwood, St.Kilda and Freo haven't been able to sign new players when they had players banned. I don't see why we should be able to. Its understandable that Essendon will have to top up their list in order to compete (however poorly) in the AFL.

[bulldogtragic]

If Essendon can sign up 10 players - doesn't that mean they will be 2 short (seeing as they have 12 suspended players) ?

Essendon & Port will be 2 short.
Dogs, Saints, Dees will be one short.

Pretty logical really. They have kept Essendon 2 short so that they are at least equal in list numbers to the next most affected club.
Collingwood, St.Kilda and Freo haven't been able to sign new players when they had players banned. I don't see why we should be able to. Its understandable that Essendon will have to top up their list in order to compete (however poorly) in the AFL.

They also get to upgrade all 5 rookies instantly.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Thank God that justice is done and Essendon will now go down in history as drug cheats. What a despicable crime against the sport and the competition they committed. Greedy a_holes. The players can take a year off and travel the world, develop other skills for post retirement and rest their professional bodies to prolong their careers. Congratulations to Stewie for parachuting out of that toxic environment and coming to its antithesis.

[Axe Man]

From the Herald Sun:


Lawyers for former Bombers Stewart Crameri and Brent Prismall are exploring options for an appeal to the Swiss Federal Tribunal or the Victorian or NSW Supreme Court.

It could be launched within days.


EX-BOMBERS PREPARE TO LAUNCH APPEAL

Crameri and Prismall are now at the Western Bulldogs, represented by a separate legal team to their former teammates.

Grounds for an appeal must demonstrate an error of law or breach of the rules of procedural fairness.

It is believed revelations in the CAS judgement that the panel was split 2-1 could be used as a basis for an appeal.

The Dogs said this afternoon: “The Western Bulldogs have received a copy of the Arbitral Award delivered by the Court of Arbitration for Sport this morning. The club is intently studying the reasons for judgement insofar as they apply to Stewart Crameri and Brent Prismall.”

The Swiss Federal Tribunal is the highest court in Switzerland, where the CAS is based, but because the case was heard in Australia the Supreme Court is another option for players keen to continue fighting.

An appeal could involve attempts to freeze the suspensions imposed by the CAS this morning.

[BulldogBelle]

Somebody please send a message to the club to immediately cease any idea to appeal.

[Greystache]

It's misrepresenting the findings to declare it a 2-1 verdict. All three judges unanimously agreed they were comfortably satisfied players were injected with TB4. One judge didn't agree that every one of the 34 were guilty, rather only a selection of them, that was the only discrepancy.

[bulldogtragic]

Somebody please send a message to the club to immediately cease any idea to appeal.

I don't want our club creating a circus like the drug cheating afl team did. It pains me to say it, but he was offered a slap on the wrist and risked copping a big ban. He bet big and lost.

[Sedat]

It's misrepresenting the findings to declare it a 2-1 verdict. All three judges unanimously agreed they were comfortably satisfied players were injected with TB4. One judge didn't agree that every one of the 34 were guilty, rather only a selection of them, that was the only discrepancy.
This has been going on since Feb 2013.

[Greystache]

This has been going on since Feb 2013.

I'm shocked to hear you say this. I just didn't see it coming :D

[Eastdog]

Will just have to cop it sweet. Stweart is an important part of our forward line so its a big blow for us. In then end ultimately the right result for the game came out today.

Bloody Hird and Dank!

[josie]

It's misrepresenting the findings to declare it a 2-1 verdict. All three judges unanimously agreed they were comfortably satisfied players were injected with TB4. One judge didn't agree that every one of the 34 were guilty, rather only a selection of them, that was the only discrepancy.

Anyone know more details on the above?

I'd think Gordon will have close look at possible legal grounds by Crameri and Prismall's lawyers and whether they appeal to WADA against finding or not. I recall that they were lawyers with close connections to our esteemed president too.

[Axe Man]

Anyone know more details on the above?

I'd think Gordon will have close look at possible legal grounds by Crameri and Prismall's lawyers and whether they appeal to WADA against finding or not. I recall that they were lawyers with close connections to our esteemed president too.

You are correct - it was Rob Stary that Crameri & Prismall engaged. I assume it is still him or his firm that are acting for them.

[jeemak]

Saints have paid dearly for Carlisle :)

I wonder what he'll be doing with all that cash, spare time, and no accountability to the illicit drugs code this next twelve months?

[F'scary]

I wonder what he'll be doing with all that cash, spare time, and no accountability to the illicit drugs code this next twelve months?

Hanging out with Dustin at Supersonic.

[northernsoul74]

Those teams that play Essendon twice have a real unfair advantage.

[LostDoggy]

Those teams that play Essendon twice have a real unfair advantage.

There should be some rule that says if you get Essendon twice, you can't also get Carlton twice.

[LostDoggy]

Thinking about who can play Crameri's role, I reckon Bob Murphy could go forward a bit next year. When he played forward a few years ago his role was fairly similar to Stewie's.

[jeemak]

Thinking about who can play Crameri's role, I reckon Bob Murphy could go forward a bit next year. When he played forward a few years ago his role was fairly similar to Stewie's.

Murphy was unlucky not to be named as the best CHF in the game in 2008, and I'd love him to go forward in his twilight.

But, we need him disposing of the footy off half back more than anything next year. He's too good at that to worry about him being a potential sub for Crameri.

[Hotdog60]

I think as others have said that Adcock is the one to step in. The rookie listing was protection against this result.

[ReLoad]

I think it provides a great opportunity for the likes of players like Toby. Its a shame Disco has to sit it out, our forward line one paper is so unpredictable and versatile, shame to lose his hard running and contest work :(

Stew has been awesome for us since he came across, one of the best trades we have made in a very long time.

Cant wait to see him back.

[LostDoggy]

I think as others have said that Adcock is the one to step in. The rookie listing was protection against this result.

For mine, it's unrealistic to expect Adcock to consistently fulfil a Crameri like role. I looked back through his last 8 years of games and only twice has he kicked more than 2 goals, and one of those was against us when we were playing touch footy in the last round last year. In our list, I think he can be a pinch hitting utility at best.

[Sedat]

For mine, it's unrealistic to expect Adcock to consistently fulfil a Crameri like role. I looked back through his last 8 years of games and only twice has he kicked more than 2 goals, and one of those was against us when we were playing touch footy in the last round last year. In our list, I think he can be a pinch hitting utility at best.
To be fair to Adcock, he has spent the majority of his career in the back half - only last year did he start to play forward of the centre with any regularity.

He won't be a Crameri replacement but his selection as a rookie is looking very useful right now.

[LostDoggy]

I'm being pedantic here, but the title of this thread isn't quite accurate. Crameri doesn't actually have a one year ban. He has a 2 year ban, less deductions, meaning that he is free to rejoin the club in 10 months, November 14, 2016 to be precise - as is Prismall.

That will be a great day to be around the club.

[bornadog]

I'm being pedantic here, but the title of this thread isn't quite accurate. Crameri doesn't actually have a one year ban. He has a 2 year ban, less deductions, meaning that he is free to rejoin the club in 10 months, November 14, 2016 to be precise - as is Prismall.

That will be a great day to be around the club.

What does the ban mean? I know he can't play, but is he able to hang around the club? Can he join in training? Can he be employed in any capacity at all?

[LostDoggy]

What does the ban mean? I know he can't play, but is he able to hang around the club? Can he join in training? Can he be employed in any capacity at all?

Can't train or be involved in any professional capacity - this aspect is particularly harsh for Prismall who is forging a role as a welfare officer. Effectively they are to disassociate with the club (and any other professional sporting body) entirely until the ban is lifted. I believe they can be involved on a social level.

[Doc26]

I'm being pedantic here, but the title of this thread isn't quite accurate. Crameri doesn't actually have a one year ban. He has a 2 year ban, less deductions, meaning that he is free to rejoin the club in 10 months, November 14, 2016 to be precise - as is Prismall.

That will be a great day to be around the club.

My reading from the full CAS findings (was like reading an Ikea manual on how to construct one of their warehouses) is that he should be eligible to rejoin the Club for training purposes 2 months prior to his eligibility date assuming the AFL endorse this, so I'd say we should see him back at the Club come mid-Sep16.

[Twodogs]

My reading from the full CAS findings (was like reading an Ikea manual on how to construct one of their warehouses) is that he should be eligible to rejoin the Club for training purposes 2 months prior to his eligibility date assuming the AFL endorse this, so I'd say we should see him back at the Club come mid-Sep16.


Does it say why the bans were timed from November? Is that when the judgement was set or something?

[Doc26]

Does it say why the bans were timed from November? Is that when the judgement was set or something?

All 34 players were given a 2 year ban, not 1 year as some commentary might suggest.

Players were then given discounts on the 2 years based on.
1. How many days they had already served during last pre-season's suspension period. This generally equated to ~138 days (14Nov15-31Mar15) although this varies with some players not with Stewie.
2. 31Mar2015 was then agreed by CAS as the date to then officially commence the suspension period given so called non-player related delays in the process. This of course was also the previous date of the AFL Tribunal findings on their innocence.

So you will typically see players with a return date of 14Nov16 (expiry of ineligibility 13Nov16) although someone like Lovett-Murray in mid-Dec16 because he didn't commence his pre-season suspension period until a ~month later.

There is then a section in the report specific to 'Training'. That is, an acknowledgement by CAS that for a player to return to the group in adequate shape in time for the eligible date that he should be given sufficient time to train with the team / or at the team's headquarters. For this they appear to indicate a period of 2 months prior for this specific case.

Hope this helps.

[Twodogs]

All 34 players were given a 2 year ban, not 1 year as some commentary might suggest.

Players were then given discounts on the 2 years based on.
1. How many days they had already served during last pre-season's suspension period. This generally equated to ~138 days (14Nov15-31Mar15) although this varies with some players not with Stewie.
2. 31Mar2015 was then agreed by CAS as the date to then officially commence the suspension period given so called non-player related delays in the process. This of course was also the previous date of the AFL Tribunal findings on their innocence.

So you will typically see players with a return date of 14Nov16 (expiry of ineligibility 13Nov16) although someone like Lovett-Murray in mid-Dec16 because he didn't commence his pre-season suspension period until a ~month later.

There is then a section in the report specific to 'Training'. That is, an acknowledgement by CAS that for a player to return to the group in adequate shape in time for the eligible date that he should be given sufficient time to train with the team / or at the team's headquarters. For this they appear to indicate a period of 2 months prior for this specific case.

Hope this helps.

Yeah it does. Thanks.

[LostDoggy]

Just to add to that, 14 November is the key date because ASADA issued the original infraction notices on 14 November, 2014. All penalties work from that date.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Apologies if this has been brought up elsewhere, but who pays Crameri's wages this year?

Seeing that he has been suspended for a breach of the rules you would think that would mean that he doesn't get paid his usual wage through the dogs and that Essendon either pay the coin or he goes after them in court. If this is the same scenario for the other Ex-players, does this money go towards their cap (which I believe the money we paid out on Griffen did last year)?

[jeemak]

Apologies if this has been brought up elsewhere, but who pays Crameri's wages this year?

Seeing that he has been suspended for a breach of the rules you would think that would mean that he doesn't get paid his usual wage through the dogs and that Essendon either pay the coin or he goes after them in court. If this is the same scenario for the other Ex-players, does this money go towards their cap (which I believe the money we paid out on Griffen did last year)?

There would be a contractual obligation for Crameri to forego his wages you'd think, and it would be up to him to recoup any lost earnings via civil suit.

[ledge]

Apparently the 12 players salary at Essendon will still be included in the salary cap but no idea if they get paid. Essendon could be a lot better off money wise if they don't have to pay them.

[LostDoggy]

Apparently the 12 players salary at Essendon will still be included in the salary cap but no idea if they get paid. Essendon could be a lot better off money wise if they don't have to pay them.

I reckon Essendon would have to pay their guys, given what they are guilty of is participating in club organised programmes. The others are murkier.

[bulldogtragic]

Apparently the 12 players salary at Essendon will still be included in the salary cap but no idea if they get paid. Essendon could be a lot better off money wise if they don't have to pay them.

Just shifting deck chairs on the titanic and probably makes a complete certainty of legal action by the players, with added venom. Breach of contract claims for a start, then negligence and lost earnings claims. Frankly, if I was in their position and stressed as they are alleged to be because of the actions of their employer, I'd have lodged a stress workcover claim this morning. Workcover (worksafe) have already found them negligent and risked player welfare so their claims will be approved. They'd get 13 weeks at full pay and then 80% for the length of any injury. Then, actually, Essendon could then claim on their workcover policy all wages past 13 weeks and potentially save millions. Maybe I shouldn't have posted this...

[Ghost Dog]

Long time ago now - were we aware of the full extent of Essendon's supplement regime at the time of drafting Crameri?
From memory we seemed fairly confident he would escape penalty. That surprises me because to the ordinary person it looks like an open and shut case. WADA gives athelete form: " Have you taken any substances?" Player lies. End of story, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 dollars.

Question - If athletes take performance enhancing drugs that are imported illegally, why are they not charged under a civil code? eg: have a criminal record?

We paid a hefty contract price for Crameri. Is there any room for us to say ' Fair cop, you acted inappropriately and didn't disclose all to the doping authorities and how is that our fault?' let's negotiate this salary thing - or would that be biting the player that feeds us (?) mixed metaphor....

[Twodogs]

Long time ago now - were we aware of the full extent of Essendon's supplement regime at the time of drafting Crameri?
From memory we seemed fairly confident he would escape penalty. That surprises me because to the ordinary person it looks like an open and shut case. WADA gives athelete form: " Have you taken any substances?" Player lies. End of story, do not pass Go, do not collect 200 dollars.

Question - If athletes take performance enhancing drugs that are imported illegally, why are they not charged under a civil code? eg: have a criminal record?

We paid a hefty contract price for Crameri. Is there any room for us to say ' Fair cop, you acted inappropriately and didn't disclose all to the doping authorities and how is that our fault?' let's negotiate this salary thing - or would that be biting the player that feeds us (?) mixed metaphor....


There is no real strong evidence. It wouldn't get a guilty verdict before a court. Courts work to a higher standard of proof than CAS.

[bulldogtragic]

There is no real strong evidence. It wouldn't get a guilty verdict before a court. Courts work to a higher standard of proof than CAS.

Yep. There's comfortable satisfaction of a doping infraction, but a truck load of reasonable doubt as to a crime being committed. Would not be a Senior Sergeant in Victoria sign off on a prosecution, let alone a court throw it out and award costs against the Crown for good measure.

[Flamethrower]

Brent Prismall will not be banned from doing his job as welfare officer - he is only banned from football activities.

After reading all the evidence many in the legal fraternity can't believe that CAS delivered a guilty verdict, and moreso how it was applied to all 34 players equally. While the AFL Doping Tribunal had set the bar for a guilty verdict incredibly high, CAS has basically placed the bar for a guilty verdict on the floor.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-cas-verdict-dons-seek-appeal-loophole-20160113-gm5c7q.html

Sounds like the players have a strong case to it this further.

[bornadog]

Apologies if this has been brought up elsewhere, but who pays Crameri's wages this year?

Seeing that he has been suspended for a breach of the rules you would think that would mean that he doesn't get paid his usual wage through the dogs and that Essendon either pay the coin or he goes after them in court. If this is the same scenario for the other Ex-players, does this money go towards their cap (which I believe the money we paid out on Griffen did last year)?

Saints have said they don't have to pay all of Carlisle's wages for this year.

[Axe Man]

Caroline Wilson on Footy Classified said something along the lines of the clubs aren't obligated to pay the banned players but they will anyway. I'm not sure how they structure contracts but a wild guess would be we still pay Crameri his base contract but he will earn less than if he was playing as he will miss out on match payments.

The Essendon saga has been going for 3 years, Crameri has only been with us for 2 seasons so we were aware of the risk when we drafted him. The only player recruited without knowledge of the program was Monfries. Port have already indicated they will be looking to be compensated by Essendon.

Edit: Just read this:

Under the AFL Anti-Doping Code, clubs can withhold up to 50 per cent of a player’s contract after a breach.

“That is a matter between the club and the player … the anti-doping code allows for money to be withheld,” an AFL spokesman said.

[ledge]

So if they only get paid half their wage, no doubt the bombers will do this because its all about Essendon and not the player.
But Hird gets paid a million while not there !
Just on that so is the full wage included in the salary cap ?
Essendon will save a lot of money to pay the bills. More like a back hand bonus.
Although crowd figures will be interesting and ANZAC day the crowd will be all Collingwood I imagine.
They should not get ANZAC day now.

[LostDoggy]

So if they only get paid half their wage, no doubt the bombers will do this because its all about Essendon and not the player.
But Hird gets paid a million while not there !
Just on that so is the full wage included in the salary cap ?
Essendon will save a lot of money to pay the bills. More like a back hand bonus.
Although crowd figures will be interesting and ANZAC day the crowd will be all Collingwood I imagine.
They should not get ANZAC day now.

It will never happen of course, but I love the idea of Essendon being stripped of high profile games such as ANZAC day or Dreamtime at the G as a penalty for bringing the game into disrepute. These clubs need to lose their sense of entitlement.

[Ghost Dog]

It will never happen of course, but I love the idea of Essendon being stripped of high profile games such as ANZAC day or Dreamtime at the G as a penalty for bringing the game into disrepute. These clubs need to lose their sense of entitlement.

Not as unrealistic as it sounds as an idea. It's going to look bizarre these guys standing up for the last post, as if anyone is supposed to respect them.

[Twodogs]

Brent Prismall will not be banned from doing his job as welfare officer - he is only banned from football activities.

A sensible outcome.


So if they only get paid half their wage, no doubt the bombers will do this because its all about Essendon and not the player.
But Hird gets paid a million while not there !
Just on that so is the full wage included in the salary cap ?
Essendon will save a lot of money to pay the bills. More like a back hand bonus.
Although crowd figures will be interesting and ANZAC day the crowd will be all Collingwood I imagine.
They should not get ANZAC day now.

I know. Unbelievable.


Not as unrealistic as it sounds as an idea. It's going to look bizarre these guys standing up for the last post, as if anyone is supposed to respect them.


Or the ground is half full because most people with an ounce of common decency wouldn't want to be seen celebrating Essendon.

But oh no, Essendon will have to keep ANZAC day in order to rebuild their brand.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Brent Prismall will not be banned from doing his job as welfare officer - he is only banned from football activities.

After reading all the evidence many in the legal fraternity can't believe that CAS delivered a guilty verdict, and moreso how it was applied to all 34 players equally. While the AFL Doping Tribunal had set the bar for a guilty verdict incredibly high, CAS has basically placed the bar for a guilty verdict on the floor.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/essendon-cas-verdict-dons-seek-appeal-loophole-20160113-gm5c7q.html

Sounds like the players have a strong case to it this further.

http://http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/essendon/essendon-guilty-verdict-banned-players-advised-of-what-they-can-and-cant-do/news-story/69f4b470a62579550fcfb731270007c5 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/essendon/essendon-guilty-verdict-banned-players-advised-of-what-they-can-and-cant-do/news-story/69f4b470a62579550fcfb731270007c5")

From this article, it would seem that Prismall will not be able to do his role. In fact, the suspended players will not be able to be on site, will not be able to enter the rooms etc. on game day, and the clubs will not be able to give them a programme (which clearly the Saints weren't aware of when they held their media conference the other day).

In summary:

Restrictions and approved behaviour for the banned Essendon 34 in season 2016

CAN

Attend AFL and other football games

Talk to players and coaches from their teams on a social level

Train away from their clubs with other banned players

Work in the media at AFL games

CAN’T

Play football at any organised level

Enter club rooms at grounds on match day

Enter their club’s premises

Train under club-devised programs

[LostDoggy]

They also get to upgrade all 5 rookies instantly.
This sounds good, until they cop the regular injuries that afflict all teams during a season and find themselves without the coverage. Not to mention that the 12 lost are the older, experienced heads with harder bodies more able to stand up to the rigours of an AFL season (also helped by being on the juice :)) and I fully expect to see Essendon decimated not only by the bans but by injuries all year.

It's misrepresenting the findings to declare it a 2-1 verdict. All three judges unanimously agreed they were comfortably satisfied players were injected with TB4. One judge didn't agree that every one of the 34 were guilty, rather only a selection of them, that was the only discrepancy.
Perhaps Crameri and Prismall feel that they are those players that the panel couldn't be certain to lump in with the rest, and therefore they feel an injustice has been done to them?

Or the ground is half full because most people with an ounce of common decency wouldn't want to be seen celebrating Essendon.
This is quite naive. If Essendon fans have taught us anything in the past three years, it's that the MCG will be packed to the rafters with black and red dimwits holding "Miscarriage of Justice" placards.


Enter their club’s premises

This is the penalty that will crush some of these blokes.

[bornadog]

From The Age:


Crameri, initially interested in a deal, changed his stance. In Crameri's version, reported back in April, his mother encouraged him to avoid a plea bargain. But it is also clear that he did not want to break ranks with the 33 teammates, who were – at least in public positioning – unwilling to accept what was seen as a surrender. Gordon was trying to cook up a deal with the AFL's counsel Jeff Gleeson, who was empowered to negotiate on Crameri's behalf with ASADA before the conclusion of the AFL tribunal hearing. By using the disguise of pre-season games, Gordon thought then he could get Crameri an effective ban of 2-4 weeks.How does that deal look today?

[F'scary]

From The Age:

oh well...at least he won't be called a dobber (for what it's worth).

[bornadog]

oh well...at least he won't be called a dobber (for what it's worth).

I would rather he be called a dobber and play this year.

[Twodogs]

I would rather he be called a dobber and play this year.

It's a big call but I think I agree with you. It's all well and good talking about mateship and loyalty but Stu's first loyalty now is to his Western Bulldog teammates and his primary motivation should have been getting back on the field in our colours ASAP. It's the 43 players on our list who should have been at the front of Crameri's mind, not the 33 other ex and current Essendin players.

Bugger Essendon and the players silly enough to still be there. They made their bed now they can lay down in it.

Having said that I dunno if I could have broken ranks. The 450 large I got a season may have motivated me though. That sort of wage brings a lot of responsibility to do the right thing, even if it isn't the easiest or most popular thing.

[LostDoggy]

I probably hold a minority view here, but I support Crameri's actions. Missing a year at this stage of his career, whilst in full health, will probably only prolong his career and result in a net benefit to him. He still gets paid for this year, or at least a good chunk of the base - and comes back in good conscience, knowing all errors have been paid for in full.

Whatever the club loses this year should be repaid in years to come, with a revitalised Crameri and 22 more games into a Maclean, Redpath, whoever.

If he had've 'taken a plea', subsequent events could've been partially attributed to him and he would've had a much heavier weight on his shoulders for the rest of his career. Something about us getting our guy(s) through this year, whilst all the others sat out, wouldn't have sat right for mine. He would be a marked man.

Sometimes you've just got to accept that you're part of a crime and have to cop the time.

Other than, on the face of it, going along with the herd (pun intended) initially, Stewie has handled this whole thing as well as he could have, from what I can see. He got out of that cesspit at the earliest opportunity, but has said or done nothing to further the misery of those foolish enough to remain behind.

[F'scary]

That is a pretty good point, Peanuts. If Crameri had done a plea bargin, there would be countless Essendon supporters, plus the players and the club officials who would have jumped onto the line that it is all because of him.

[Topdog]

All 34 are idiots. The deal was available for everyone, once again Essendon were too arrogant for their own good.

[bulldogtragic]

All 34 are idiots. The deal was available for everyone, once again Essendon were too arrogant for their own good.

Yep. How many Crunulla players are banned this year or got a hefty sentence from the CAS?

[F'scary]

All 34 are idiots. The deal was available for everyone, once again Essendon were too arrogant for their own good.

Crameri would have been aware that he would have been going the plea bargin alone, I can understand why he chose not to be singled out as "the snitch."

It would have been interesting if someone had broken ranks, there may have been a mass exit and a completely different result, perhaps more like the ARL penalties (but probably still a bit heavier, given the circumstances).

[G-Mo77]

All 34 are idiots. The deal was available for everyone, once again Essendon were too arrogant for their own good.

Yep. As harsh as it sounds this is spot on. While I will welcome back Crammers with open arms his decision to ignore his clubs advice and side with his former club and teammates who got him in this mess is just disappointing.

[F'scary]

That is the degree of coercion the sick Bummers management engaged in. So intense and punitive that even players who had left the club kept mum.

[LostDoggy]

Probably for fear of Charter and his goon squad handing out late night suprise visits while being invited to Turd's house for dinner and getting caught in the narcsist web of unwitting lies and deceit

[WBFC4FFC]

Crameri would have been aware that he would have been going the plea bargin alone, I can understand why he chose not to be singled out as "the snitch."

It would have been interesting if someone had broken ranks, there may have been a mass exit and a completely different result, perhaps more like the ARL penalties (but probably still a bit heavier, given the circumstances).

ASADA and WADA would have thought one would have broken ranks. (Me too for what it's worth). The Prisoner's Dilemma Theory comes to mind.