Revamping the forward line

[GVGjr]

Losing Stewart Crameri will pose a lot of difficulties for us this year. He's been a steady forward and he causes match up problems for opposition defenders plus he had the uncanny knack of standing up when other forwards were struggling.
He played 18 games and kicked 32 goals (and 21 behinds) which is better than 2 goals a game.

On top of losing Crameri, Jarrad Grant played 19 games last season for us in a mixture of forward and midfield duties and he kicked 11 goals (and 14 behinds).

To keep the scoreboard ticking over and to maintain the momentum we thrived on last season that's basically 45 goals we have to replace.

Here is some of the other challenges we face with losing Crameri:

Tory Dickson had an outstanding season kicking 50 goals, If he was on the oppositions radar after that effort he will now command better defenders than what he otherwise might have enjoyed if Crameri was still in the team.

If we assume Dickson might struggle a bit to beat last seasons heroics how do we generate enough goals or scoring opportunities in 2016? He could also easily struggle with just the level of goal kicking accuracy he enjoyed last year.

If we assume Stringer repeats last seasons efforts or even improves a bit, it still leaves a decent gap that our midfielders might not be able to cover.

Can Tom Boyd and/or Jack Redpath step up?
Will it be Adcock and/or McLean that becomes consistent goals scorers for us?
Or could it be a move forward for Webb or even Adams?

How do we set-up our forward line this season and can it be as potent as 2015?

[Rocco Jones]

No direct replacement for Crameri. As GVG has mentioned, he will be a big loss.

I would initially replace him with a small (Adcock, McLean or Daniel). Adcock would be my first choice due to physical maturity. I think the real replacement though, will come through extra midfield rotations due to interchange cap. Wallis and Stevens are suited to bullocking style and Bonts offers us height.

[Go_Dogs]

I would like to see our forward line start something like this:-

CHF: Dahlhaus, Redpath, Suckling
FF: Dickson, Boyd, Stringer

Our big goal kickers are likely to again be Stringer and Dickson. We will need more impact from both Boyd and Redpath. We're then going to need consistent goals from the midfielders and others who rotate through, including Dahlhaus, Suckling, Wallis, Bontempelli, Stevens, Jong, Hunter, Honeychurch, McLean, Dale etc.

I actually wonder whether a guy like Stevens could spend a lot more time forward with Crameri out? He's a good mark, he's tough, strong and fit. Whilst he was missed during the latter part of the season, our midfield held up OK without him.

[F'scary]

Stevens likes a goal and can take a contested mark and has considerable experience in midfield rotations.

Alternatively, the Crameri contretemps may provide extra incentive to get Big Jack Redpath moving it as a CHF with Toyd at FF.

There could be room for both Stevens and Redpath in the forward line.

[GVGjr]

I would like to see our forward line start something like this:-

CHF: Dahlhaus, Redpath, Suckling
FF: Dickson, Boyd, Stringer

Our big goal kickers are likely to again be Stringer and Dickson. We will need more impact from both Boyd and Redpath. We're then going to need consistent goals from the midfielders and others who rotate through, including Dahlhaus, Suckling, Wallis, Bontempelli, Stevens, Jong, Hunter, Honeychurch, McLean, Dale etc.

I actually wonder whether a guy like Stevens could spend a lot more time forward with Crameri out? He's a good mark, he's tough, strong and fit. Whilst he was missed during the latter part of the season, our midfield held up OK without him.

It just doesn't look as potent as last season unless Boyd and Redpath can contribute around 30 goals each this season.
I can see Dahlhaus and Wallis rotating through the middle and this could be a good option for us as both can score goals.
I wonder with the return of Liberatore if Bontempelli spends a bit more time forward?
Jong kicks goals as well

We have plenty of depth but there is still a lot of questions I'm not sure of the answers.

I tend to agree with Rocco that we need Adcock as a HFF.

[LostDoggy]

I think with the different rotation requirements this year, we will have 2 midfielders rotating through the forwardline. 1 rotation will essentially cover the Crameri role (including Bont, Wallis, Stevens and Jong when in the team), whilst a second rotation will take on more of a small forward type role and will include Dahlhaus, Maclean and Daniel when in the side, all spending varying times in the middle or forward.

Those I can see being predominantly forward are Stringer, Dickson and Boyd. Still not convinced about Redpath in there as well, but if he can display significantly improved mobility and endurance over the preseason, I can see a half forward role for him also.

[Ghost Dog]

I would like to see our forward line start something like this:-

CHF: Dahlhaus, Redpath, Suckling
FF: Dickson, Boyd, Stringer

Our big goal kickers are likely to again be Stringer and Dickson. We will need more impact from both Boyd and Redpath. We're then going to need consistent goals from the midfielders and others who rotate through, including Dahlhaus, Suckling, Wallis, Bontempelli, Stevens, Jong, Hunter, Honeychurch, McLean, Dale etc.

I actually wonder whether a guy like Stevens could spend a lot more time forward with Crameri out? He's a good mark, he's tough, strong and fit. Whilst he was missed during the latter part of the season, our midfield held up OK without him.


Bob Murphy is an ideal candidate for the forward line. Opposition coaches have often noted he's a difficult match up.
In addition I think he needs to begin getting ready to relinquish his defence role from time to time so others can get experience. So I would move Bob to the forward line.
Bevo makes any changes he thinks fit, so would not be surprised to see something like this.
Bob, Suckling and Caleb Daniels to cover the 50 mentioned in the opening. Daniels must step up - will become our Eddie Betts.
Like the mention of Koby Stevens forward as well. Has the right mongrel to be given the task " Look mate, we need 20 goals out of you this season, go to it" and he will give it his all.

[Bulldog Joe]

I think the recruiting of Suckling effectively covers everything and more that Grant provided.

Additionally, I would see Boyd coming in to cover the loss of Crameri, effectively giving us Boyd/Redpath for Crameri/Redpath we had late in the year.

While the worry with that is mobility, I still see it as an effective option.

The other consideration is that all of Boyd/Redpath/Dickson/Stringer are at age/experience positions that should see a net improvement from them in 2016.

When you also consider that Bont/Macrae are also in that age/experience metric and we are adding Libba back in the mix we are looking ok from a manpower perspective in the forward and midfield area.

[bulldogtragic]

Assuming Boyd, Wood, Biggs, Prudden, Webb, Dale, Suckling, Cordy, Dunkley and anyone else can fulfill the role off the back flanks...

Then Bob Murphy to the forward line.

With Stevens, Libba & possibly Smith back, Dahl spending a bit more time forward. Rest Roughead down there too.

[LostDoggy]

I love the idea of Bob forward, however whoever we replace him with off half back, will not have his poise or his exquisite decision making and delivery. I think he will pinch hit forward, but still predominantly be a half back flanker because what he offers off back is just too valuable.

[always right]

The beauty of recruiting Suckling and Adcock is it gives more options in defence and attack which in turn allows us to rotate blokes as we see fit. The increased options means at various times we will see Murph, Suckling and Adcock forward or back on top of our midfielders who will rotate through the forward line. Liking the flexibility which helps us cover the loss of Crameri.

[jeemak]

It's a good thread/discussion point.

I guess with Grant's limitations aerobically, he may have been seen as a liability with a constraint on rotations and no sub in 2016.

He would have been good for 20-25 goals as a permanent forward most likely - providing his form as a permanent forward didn't track as it has throughout his career.

The coaching panel will mix it up, as others have said there's no direct replacement and we'll just have to rely on a number of midfielders chipping in.

[LostDoggy]

Koby Stevens as a forward will work. As others have said, he's a strong mark. He also has a history of kicking multiple goals (six games of 2+ goals and two games with 3+ goals).

Something to consider with Murphy, Adcock and Suckling is their versatility. They can play forward or back and Bevo will be able to tactically exploit that.

I am not too concerned about losing Crameri, as one player can replace him (whoever that may be). What the issue will be is if we're unfortunate to lose other players. The compounding effect will be challenging if we were to lose three or four players.

[GVGjr]

I think the recruiting of Suckling effectively covers everything and more that Grant provided.



Suckling kicked 15 goals (and 15 behinds) in 25 games fro the Hawks so it's a fair cover but I'm not sure how he will perform with us. I don't quite see him in the best 18 but I'm sure he will be given his chances.

[Maddog37]

I would hope for more from McLean, Dale and Boyd. Especially McLean with a good run of injuries.

I can see a lot of attempts to isolate Stringer, Bont, Tory and Boyd forward as they are all tricky match ups one out. I can't see why Tory needs to do anything different to be able to kick plenty of goals. He was heavily defended last year but only needs a few kicks every week to kick multiple goals. I think he will be fitter again this year too.

[Ghost Dog]

Does Fletcher Roberts deserve consideration? Consistent, good solid body ( massive shoulders) makes decent decisions, composed. For example, Watch him (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_5mzflOA5E) take this excellent grab, full of confidence, thenslot the goal after the siren, with all the Tigers fans in his ear.
Last time I was at Whitten Oval I saw him training and was really impressed. That was in 2014.
Ash Hansen speaks highly of his preparation and attitude. Arguments against?

[Twodogs]

Can an improved Tom Boyd be considered a replacement for Crameri?. He could get of the leash and 30 or 40 goals and it wouldn't be a huge surprise.

He doesn't really provide the running and flexibility that Crameri provides though. A few times last year I saw Crameri kick the ball deep in defence and then get on the end of a pass in the forward line and kick a goal in the same sequence of play. I can't see big Tom doing that.

But I am confident that the coaching staff will come up with different forward setups to use the players left, and there is still a lot of talent there a LOT of talent, to the best use.

[Eastdog]

Yes this is an interesting discussion. Stronger and Crameri were very good in 2015 so losing Crameri is a loss but I think if we were able to do good without Libba for a year I think will be alright without Crameri.

In saying that we need our other forwards to show more. Boyd and Redpath also with the attacking midfield types in Dicko, Dahl, Hrovat etc chipping in as well.

Campbell could he be useful in the forward line or should we just stick to developing him in the ruck role?

Murph yes could be a possibility for sure but will miss his influence of half back.

[ledge]

I picture bontempelli playing at CHF and killing it.
We have a lot of players who can go forward, even Tom Campbell/Minson have played okay at times in the forward line.
All about delivery.

[Eastdog]

I picture bontempelli playing at CHF and killing it.
We have a lot of players who can go forward, even Tom Campbell/Minson have played okay at times in the forward line.
All about delivery.

I remember in 2014 when we played the Crows at Etihad Campbell in that first quarter did quite well up forward. While certainly having a key FF is great it is equally important to have strong contribution to the goals from the mids as well.

[Twodogs]

I remember in 2014 when we played the Crows at Etihad Campbell in that first quarter did quite well up forward. While certainly having a key FF is great it is equally important to have strong contribution to the goals from the mids as well.


The Melbourne game in the last round too. He just kept running to all the right places. Even when the entire pack went one way Tom went the other and took uncontested marks. I really thought we'd found a player. If he can build on, or reproduce, that sort of form he could be a huge bonus.

[bulldogtragic]

The Melbourne game in the last round too. He just kept running to all the right places. Even when the entire pack went one way Tom went the other and took uncontested marks. I really thought we'd found a player. If he can build on, or reproduce, that sort of form he could be a huge bonus.

Was it against Sydney he took two strong contested marks and two goals to start the game?

The other one could be Roberts, if Hamling, Adams, Collins & Morris are sufficient enough to play defensive talls.

[Eastdog]

Does Roughead deserve a chance to play a bit up forward? You would think we would keep him in the defence still.

[GVGjr]

Does Roughead deserve a chance to play a bit up forward? You would think we would keep him in the defence still.

He's not a good forward, if he rucks he will be used as a forward from time to time but I can't see him influencing the forward line with goals.

[Eastdog]

Which forward from the Footscray VFL team could knock on the door this year potentially and get a chance in the seniors?

[LostDoggy]

Was it against Sydney he took two strong contested marks and two goals to start the game?

The other one could be Roberts, if Hamling, Adams, Collins & Morris are sufficient enough to play defensive talls.
Agree with that. Hamling and Adams are also candidates should the others step up in the defensive posts. I'm sure all will be trialled at Footscray at some point. All in all, there are a stack of options - this year promises to be a damn exciting ride.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Adams has played forward and is a great mark and a good kick. It would be a dream if he could perform at CHF.

[Before I Die]

He's not a good forward, if he rucks he will be used as a forward from time to time but I can't see him influencing the forward line with goals.

Why do you make this statement about Roughead with such conviction GVGjr? He is the most mobile and arguably the best mark amongst our ruckmen. He is also technically a good kick though he hasn't been particularly accurate in front of goal. And it is not like he has had an extensive run up forward and been an abysmal failure. In fact, of all our ruckmen he has probably had the least exposure up forward. His demonstrated ability to hold down fullback in a competent manner only adds to the likelihood that he could be successful as a ruckman/forward.

[stefoid]

Someone said stevens is in a moon boot which Im assuming is a recurrence of his foot stress fracture? :( count him out as an option then.

I think McLean takes Crameris spot, and his aerial ability and creativity might see him generate just as many goals as crameri was generating, although he might not kick so many himself. Stewie must have kicked 10+ goals sprinting back into the goal square whereas McLean will generate more goals by passing it off, guido-style.

McLean + Suckling = a happy Stringer, Toyd and Dickson.

I like Bob at half back. He is probably the best in the league at creating attacking moves from nothing in the back half. Lets not screw with that.

Redpath had a shoulder reco over the preseason, someone said. Does that mean he is behind the 8-ball, or perhaps will mark the ball better overhead when fully recovered?

If we do move Johanison to the wing, then Im OK with playing Adcock or Webb as a defender to replace him.

Im going with a nominal forward line of

Dickson Toyd resting-mid
McLean Redpath Stringer



edit: this is the best depth I have ever seen in a bullddog side. There isnt any player I dont rate in our best 30 options.

[GVGjr]

Why do you make this statement about Roughead with such conviction GVGjr? He is the most mobile and arguably the best mark amongst our ruckmen. He is also technically a good kick though he hasn't been particularly accurate in front of goal. And it is not like he has had an extensive run up forward and been an abysmal failure. In fact, of all our ruckmen he has probably had the least exposure up forward. His demonstrated ability to hold down fullback in a competent manner only adds to the likelihood that he could be successful as a ruckman/forward.

With the opening post I'm looking at how we are going to replace Crameri's input from last season and I just don't see Roughead improving that in any way. I do believe he has been tried in that role many time throughout his career and to me he just doesn't have the feel for the position. If I thought he had a Ben Brown or David Hale type feel for the ruckman/tall forward position I'd be singing it out loudly and I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

As a defender I think Roughead has done a good job and while I might be in the minority, I'd be in no rush to move him into the ruck.
I'd rate him as a good defender, decent ruck but someone who hasn't proven himself as a viable tall forward even in a relieving role.
To me, a fit Campbell is more likely to clunk a mark up forward when resting.

[Eastdog]

Where do we see Hrovat having the best influence? I would say he is an attacking midfield type like Dahl, Daniel, Bont etc.

[LostDoggy]

Where do we see Hrovat having the best influence? I would say he is an attacking midfield type like Dahl, Daniel, Bont etc.

I think in an ideal world for him, Hrovat would get a fair bit of time in the centre. Sadly for him, that just ain't gonna happen in the short term. Hopefully he can find a way to impact games more as a small forward and win his way into more midfield rotations, in the manner of a Dahlhaus or a Hunter. Not an easy task though, with Libba, Wallis, Bont, Dahl, Hunter, Picken, Stevens, Macrae, Maclean, Daniel, Jong and others ahead in the race for midfield time.

With Dunkley making a really strong early impression by all reports, youngsters Dale and Webb looking bigger and stronger and experienced recruits Suckling and Adcock looking for mid/flanker roles, competition is going to be very intense for any role that involves midfield time.

[Mantis]

One player who hasn't been mentioned much in this thread is Bailey Dale.

He was consistently playing the 'Up & back' role in the VFL team last season and had a number of games with 20+ touches and multiple goals, but couldn't quite translate that form into the AFL team. With another pre-season under his belt and a bit more meat on his bones, he could be one to make strides in 2016.

[Bulldog4life]

Was it against Sydney he took two strong contested marks and two goals to start the game?

The other one could be Roberts, if Hamling, Adams, Collins & Morris are sufficient enough to play defensive talls.

Hamling is another who can play forward and who has kicked bags of goals with Geelong in the VFL.

[kruder]

Adams has played forward and is a great mark and a good kick. It would be a dream if he could perform at CHF.

I have this feeling with Adams that he will be a good VFL player but..... I hope I'm wrong with this one!

[Ghost Dog]

Lin Jong, maybe not discussed much, but took a great grab and goal in the final series and showed he can stand up when needed. In terms of speed, height, (185cm to Jong 188) and aggression, maybe the most 'Crameri-like' replacement we have. Averaging 19 possessions in senior footy is pretty good.

Nickname: "Mr September" ( WB site )

[Eastdog]

I think in an ideal world for him, Hrovat would get a fair bit of time in the centre. Sadly for him, that just ain't gonna happen in the short term. Hopefully he can find a way to impact games more as a small forward and win his way into more midfield rotations, in the manner of a Dahlhaus or a Hunter. Not an easy task though, with Libba, Wallis, Bont, Dahl, Hunter, Picken, Stevens, Macrae, Maclean, Daniel, Jong and others ahead in the race for midfield time.

With Dunkley making a really strong early impression by all reports, youngsters Dale and Webb looking bigger and stronger and experienced recruits Suckling and Adcock looking for mid/flanker roles, competition is going to be very intense for any role that involves midfield time.

Yes it will become increasingly tough for him and Clay Smith as well with so many midfield options as it is. Must be so frustrating for Clay but I wish him the best and hope when he does return he does well. I posted before but what about forward options PP from the Footscray VFL that could play at senior level? Who may be of interested there to get more games in the AFL?

[GVGjr]

Lin Jong, maybe not discussed much, but took a great grab and goal in the final series and showed he can stand up when needed. In terms of speed, height, (185cm to Jong 188) and aggression, maybe the most 'Crameri-like' replacement we have. Averaging 19 possessions in senior footy is pretty good.

Nickname: "Mr September" ( WB site )

Good call, I think he could be a player who might be able to kick 20 goals in a season,

[Go_Dogs]

Good call, I think he could be a player who might be able to kick 20 goals in a season,

For a player who has work to do on his field kicking, his set shot routine is quite reliable.

Given his burst speed, I still think his best value will be around the stoppages, but he's proven he can be effective in the forward half, so hopefully it's something we see more of with the reduced rotations.

[SonofScray]

Going to be a tough gig finding between 30-40 goals in Crameri's absence.

I am thinking McLean and Boyd can slot in and offer us something, they've got the talent to take us some of the way there. Wally up fwd more often with Libba back in the team might see him go a little bit further.

JJ, Suckling and Biggs off the HBF might offer us a few more long goals on the run.

[F'scary]

As Woofers have been noting in this and other threads, we have a lot of different weapons in our armoury going into 2016. One thing that is highly likely is that players ranked 23-38 will have about 7-8 senior games each on average. Plenty of opportunities for just about the entire list.

[F'scary]

Crameri is a massive loss, nevertheless, on his form in the second half of 2015, nearly as bad a loss as Libba jnr in 2015.

[Maddog37]

Crameri is a massive loss, nevertheless, on his form in the second half of 2015, nearly as bad a loss as Libba jnr in 2015.

He did get dropped or at least played some VFL at some point though didn't he? We were winning without him then from memory.

[LostDoggy]

JJ although love his breaking of the lines from D50 could really see him as another forward weapon with his pace off the mark for hit up leads(from Murph ;)) and with his ability to spring off the ground with his vertical leap.

[Eastdog]

Really like the ideas here from woofers. Interesting with JJ. I would prefer to have his run of half back. If we decided to play Murph as a forward option who woukd take his job down back? Possibly Hamling or Biggs. But we'd also miss his influence down there.

[Eastdog]

Crameri is a massive loss, nevertheless, on his form in the second half of 2015, nearly as bad a loss as Libba jnr in 2015.

Libba or Crameri out. Both in my view a big losses but the upside is that we still did very well without Libba for a year and hoping we can do the same in 2016 this time without Crameri. Do you see one being a more bigger loss than the other?

[F'scary]

Libba or Crameri out. Both in my view a big losses but the upside is that we still did very well without Libba for a year and hoping we can do the same in 2016 this time without Crameri. Do you see one being a more bigger loss than the other?

Easty, Libba as club champion was more significant but let's not downplay the blow of Crammers not playing for the entire season 2016.

[LostDoggy]

FWIW IMO A tough and tight call to make but I think Libba was a bigger loss for us last year then what Crammers will be for us this year Easty.

Sure Wally and others stepped up last year in Libba's absence and others will have to do the same in Crammers absence but I see both scenarios as being great oppurtunities for others to raise their game to higher levels and grab their chances.

Although if anything what we saw last year was the fact that unlike in past years we don't rely on one or two of our stars to play blinders to get us over the line .

Anyone of our best starting 22 have the capability to be match winners across the board and that's why it has me salivating at the prospect of continued future long term sucess at our proud club that we have been starved of for far too long.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Libba was a bigger loss in terms of mere quality but I think Crameri hurts our structure more, particularly given how dangerous we were in the second half of the year with Crameri/Stringer/Dickson. The former motored home in the last few months of the season, and even in that final, could have been the difference and kicked 5 or 6.

[Eastdog]

Easty, Libba as club champion was more significant but let's not downplay the blow of Crammers not playing for the entire season 2016.

Yes agree. Any loss of any player is significant.

[bornadog]

Libba was a bigger loss in terms of mere quality but I think Crameri hurts our structure more, particularly given how dangerous we were in the second half of the year with Crameri/Stringer/Dickson. The former motored home in the last few months of the season, and even in that final, could have been the difference and kicked 5 or 6.

His misses in that final were costly, but he showed what he can do on the big stage. Will be missed, that is for sure.

[Bulldog4life]

Bevo seems to have Clarkson's mentality. One soldier goes down another takers his place. The Hawks didn't miss a beat when Franklin left the Club.

[Happy Days]

I think Stevens is the obvious answer, foot permitting, with Jong second in line. Both guys have shown the ability to hit the scoreboard, both guys would cover the same amount of ground as Crameri, and have the aggression and hard headedness to hit the ball as Stew would. And with our midfield becoming increasingly crowded due to the return of our best player (!!!), both will probably see their midfield minutes reduced. Stevens has even shown the ability to play this very position in a pinch (or when injured).

They probably (definitely) don't have the one-on-one nous that Crameri does, but few do. On the plus side, they probably won't chokeslam anyone after they've gotten rid of the ball once a game either.