The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016

[bulldogtragic]

Murphy is playing on, so this is settled. Morris is too good not to.

But does that limit Matty Boyd. Bob, JJ, Suckling, Biggs, Easton, Williams and others who can run through there. Boyd's having a great year, but does this make this list management more in the spotlight.

[Bulldog Joe]

Trading one player for another doesn't reduce our list.

Trading 2 for 1 or 1 for picks does.

[Bulldog Joe]

Murphy is playing on, so this is settled. Morris is too good not to.

But does that limit Matty Boyd. Bob, JJ, Suckling, Biggs, Easton, Williams and others who can run through there. Boyd's having a great year, but does this make this list management more in the spotlight.

Win the flag and Murphy will be keen for another year, while Boyd might be just as happy to retire.
That would be a great list management outcome.

Pretty good results for all us long suffering supporters as well.

[chef]

I don't have him clearly best 22, and possibly even more so moving into next year... As a little exercise we are playing our first final this year at the MCG with only Murf & Crameri unavailable, what's our team? (I asked the Dr a similiar ? in the 'Sign up Koby now' thread, but he must have missed it)

Boyd Adams Morris
JJ Wood Suckling
Hunter Wallis Macrae
Stevens Stringer Dickson
Dahl Redpath Daniel

Campbell Bonti Libba

Biggs Picken Roughie/Boyd Roberts/McLean (depending on match ups)

I'm sure we won't agree.

[Bulldog4life]

Trading 2 for 1 or 1 for picks does.

You would need 2 good players to do that. Don't like it. I hope that the Club has learnt from that fateful late 90's decision to not do it again.

[chef]

Murphy is playing on, so this is settled. Morris is too good not to.

But does that limit Matty Boyd. Bob, JJ, Suckling, Biggs, Easton, Williams and others who can run through there. Boyd's having a great year, but does this make this list management more in the spotlight.

Has he said this?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Has he said this?

Give it 15 minutes :D

[chef]

Give it 15 minutes :D

Yeah, just read the Do it for Bob thread:D. Great news.

[Mantis]

Boyd Adams Morris
JJ Wood Suckling
Hunter Wallis Macrae
Stevens Stringer Dickson
Dahl Redpath Daniel

Campbell Bonti Libba

Biggs Picken Roughie/Boyd Roberts/McLean (depending on match ups)

I'm sure we won't agree.

Mine is pretty much the same except I wouldn't have Stevens in and have McLean on the ground.

Adding Crameri & Murf makes the job more difficult so decent players are going to be squeezed out.. I see Stevens as one who we can afford to lose.

[chef]

Mine is pretty much the same except I wouldn't have Stevens in and have McLean on the ground.

Adding Crameri & Murf makes the job more difficult so decent players are going to be squeezed out.. I see Stevens as one who we can afford to lose.


I guess we are never going to have everybody fit at the same time, so even if he's our 25th best player he's probably going to be in our 22. We have great depth.

[GVGjr]

You probably all know I really enjoy the whole list management and draft machinations around footy and our club and I have to say it's been great to hop onto the thread today and read so many considered opinions. Keep up the good work and thanks.

[The Doctor]

Mine is pretty much the same except I wouldn't have Stevens in and have McLean on the ground.

Adding Crameri & Murf makes the job more difficult so decent players are going to be squeezed out.. I see Stevens as one who we can afford to lose.

my team is much the same as chef's and Stevens starts.

He provides great depth to our midfield rotation and is another big bodied player who attacks the contest fiercely. He starts in my finals line up for sure even if Murph and Crameri are available. thought we missed him badly last year v Adelaide.

[bornadog]

I think we have to consider whether Jong is going to make it or not. I am a little disappointed with his progress this year. I can't recall if he had a full preseason, but he needs to show some improvement in the second half.

[ledge]

Amazing how our list has changed in a couple of years , we struggle to find an out right whipping boy, we find it hard to pick an eker, and it's getting very difficult who to delist or trade, who would have thought we talk about Minson going two years ago.
We have our captain, vice captain, best HB and a very good footballer in Crameri to come back, also Boyd and hard nut Clay not playing and still beating the grand finalist last year. this is one hell of a list, I see where Luke has headaches changing his list.

[FrediKanoute]

All good points Fredi but half a season is a long time in football. By the end of the season one or more of the players you mentioned might have turned their chances around. Interesting times ahead and a great position for the Club to be in.

Agreed - this is the rolling/moving delisting thread so I will update as the season goes along.

[FrediKanoute]

Stevens is non tradeable in my opinion

yeah I kind of agree. I think what Stevens has on our mids is that he also kicks goals and actually can go forward and play as a half forward.

What about Macrae? With Libba, Wally, Hunter could Macrae be the trade bait that lures a Fyfe to the bulldogs?

[The Doctor]

yeah I kind of agree. I think what Stevens has on our mids is that he also kicks goals and actually can go forward and play as a half forward.

What about Macrae? With Libba, Wally, Hunter could Macrae be the trade bait that lures a Fyfe to the bulldogs?

Macrae is non tradeable too!

We keep the group together as Bevo says.

Our formula is working. Great coaching, great drafting, smart recruiting. Lets not tinker with that fabric

[boydogs]

I'm a bit with Mantis in cutting deeper, just not by trading a best 22 player
We need to raise the bar in the standard of player we keep on the list, and be happy to let blokes go that may find a second home

Minson & Prudden gone
Hamling, Hamilton, Hrovat, Honeychurch, C Smith in danger
Webb, Dale, Cordy probably in the clear but would want to show something at AFL level in the 2nd half of the year

[KT31]

I'm a bit with Mantis in cutting deeper, just not by trading a best 22 player
We need to raise the bar in the standard of player we keep on the list, and be happy to let blokes go that may find a second home

Minson & Prudden gone
Hamling, Hamilton, Hrovat, Honeychurch, C Smith in danger
Webb, Dale, Cordy probably in the clear but would want to show something at AFL level in the 2nd half of the year

I'm happy to wait to see what happens with Smith in the second half of the season.
I think you should add Jong into the mix, hopefully I'm wrong but I just can't see him being consistent and making it.

[ledge]

I wouldn't be trading honeychurch at all , kids a gun just can't get in at the moment , and if Clays injuries don't stop and he retires Honeychurch needs to be on our list .

[ledge]

I love Caleb but he isn't as hard as Honeychurch either . Caleb is clean and extremely good inside with hands and feet but if we need hard it's honeychurch, he will go in and hit hard its not something I relate Caleb with.

[Sedat]

my team is much the same as chef's and Stevens starts.

He provides great depth to our midfield rotation and is another big bodied player who attacks the contest fiercely. He starts in my finals line up for sure even if Murph and Crameri are available. thought we missed him badly last year v Adelaide.
Stevens and Jong are the two interesting players for mine. They would undoubtedly have trade currency, and the fast progress of a Dunkley is providing us with cover in this area. A lot will depend on Clay Smith's recovery - if he can come back to near his best them we have even more coverage/depth in the big bodied mid area, and could then look to trade Stevens and Jong with more comfort. Tough call on both, as they bring some good skills to the table, but they both also have deficiencies in their game that haven't really improved much over the years (Jong's ability to actually win enough ball for a mid and Stevens with his decision-making/hands in tight).

[bulldogtragic]

Stevens and Jong are the two interesting players for mine. They would undoubtedly have trade currency, and the fast progress of a Dunkley is providing us with cover in this area. A lot will depend on Clay Smith's recovery - if he can come back to near his best them we have even more coverage/depth in the big bodied mid area, and could then look to trade Stevens and Jong with more comfort. Tough call on both, as they bring some good skills to the table, but they both also have deficiencies in their game that haven't really improved much over the years (Jong's ability to actually win enough ball for a mid and Stevens with his decision-making in tight).

I'd guess and think Jong would have a few suitors so I'd entertain it. Obviously Stevens would too, but I'd want to see something pretty good for him before parting with him.

[Sedat]

I'd guess and think Jong would have a few suitors so I'd entertain it. Obviously Stevens would too, but I'd want to see something pretty good for him before parting with him.
They are both good players (Stevens probably in the very good category), so I'd be happy enough to keep both if that is how the MC view them. But like you I see suitors for both that could pay overs - no point talking about Clay Smith or Hrovat as trade potential as these guys have virtually no trade value right now, and they are better on our list from a depth perspective (assuming they are cherry ripe physically) as opposed to a couple of late speculative picks/rookies. At their best they are clearly AFL quality players in any event.

[bulldogtragic]

They are both good players (Stevens probably in the very good category), so I'd be happy enough to keep both if that is how the MC view them. But like you I see suitors for both that could pay overs - no point talking about Clay Smith or Hrovat as trade potential as these guys have virtually no trade value right now, and they are better on our list from a depth perspective (assuming they are cherry ripe physically) as opposed to a couple of late speculative picks/rookies. At their best they are clearly AFL quality players in any event.

Agree on Hrovat & Smith they're going nowhere now as their value to us is more than a trade will give us.

Last year Brisbane got Tom Bell & pick 41 and gave Carlton pick 21 and 60. Jong & Bell have nearly identical stat records other than games played so the example is close. Brisbane could well do with a young leader and big quick midfielder who can play forward. If Brisbane offered up pick 21 & 60 for Jong and 41 I'd take that in a heart beat.

[ledge]

If you look what we got in the 20s last year I would trade Jong for just 21.

[KT31]

If you look what we got in the 20s last year I would trade Jong for just 21.

We picked Caleb up at 46, I wouldn't hesitate for pick 21.

[bulldogtragic]

If you look what we got in the 20s last year I would trade Jong for just 21.

Yes, but no, but yes, but no. The Bell trade was two parts Bell for pick 21 and pick 41 for pick 60. So Brisbane traded up from the fourth round (60) into the third round (41) (19 pick upgrade) to balance pick 21 for Bell being overs.

Jong for 21 would be too much our way. If we had to trade pick 41 down to pick 60 to get a pick 21 for Jong then that'd be a win-win. As I say, in comparing careers Bell & Jong are virtually identical in output. So a comparative trade would be around the mark.

[comrade]

Get the feeling Jong is rated lower than Bell in general. Jong is in and out of the side, Bell was considered one of Carlton's better talents over the last 2 years.

Would be shocked if Jong returned us a pick in the top 30.

[bulldogtragic]

Get the feeling Jong is rated lower than Bell in general. Jong is in and out of the side, Bell was considered one of Carlton's better talents over the last 2 years.

Would be shocked if Jong returned us a pick in the top 30.

Carlton's better talents 2014-2015??? Compared to Bootsma, Lucas, Tutt, Jones, injured Kruezer, Fields, holman, Johnson, Warnock, etc, etc. On that measure my nan was one of Carlton's better talents! :D

Seriously though, Jong has shown just as much in the VFL and in AFL in a stronger side last year and this year. Bell was gifted games ahead of sub standard VFL players at Carlton during them same period. The Bell trade got Brisbane a 19 pick upgrade so it's not just a pick in the top 30. I think Jong in a weak midfield like Brisbane's is the best chance he's got to have a long career and reach the peak of his talent which could be good with them. Or so we tell them...

[lemmon]

Would Brisbane or other clubs do the same deal again? Bell is a solid citizen but it's pretty clear they overpaid

[jeemak]

If you look what we got in the 20s last year I would trade Jong for just 21.

I highly doubt anyone would offer 21 for Jong, but if they did, they can have him for it.

[1eyedog]

Bell is a much better player than Jong. Neither of them can kick though which is a big problem. Bell can do most things pretty well.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd like to see us cut into the list again.

Prudden, Hamilton, Minson as certainties.

MBoyd (retired?), Clay (if another long term injury occurs) as possibilities and trade one of Hrovat/Honeychurch.

The first three are self explanatory. Prudden is injury prone and shown only glimpses, Hamilton is too far behind the rest, Minson's time has come. The next group is dependent on circumstances, but Boyd may well retire and the likelihood of Clay getting a free run at it is probably minimal. I'd trade only one of Hrovat/Honeychurch - whoever we can get the most for.

I'd listen to offers for Stevens, Jong and Roughead.

Goetz/Adcock gone from the RL.

[BulldogBelle]

Agree that the list should be cut into again.

If we do not chop those who will just not make the grade then we will suffer the cost of 'lost opportunities', an opportunity to get an A-grader who will help our winning percentage.

Agree that Prudden and Hamilton should go.

As regards to Minson we don't seem to have a ruck to replace him in the VFL side at the moment. Might have to keep Minson as young Goetz seems to be a fair bit off the pace. Either that or take the risk on some new blood.

Boyd is an interesting one. I have been saying for the last few years that he and Moz should retire because they are likely to become injury prone with calf problems and lose form. But it seems that both of them are playing as good now as ever. I'd keep Boyd on unless something happens. They must be all taking youth pills.


Should delist or trade Hrovat, as he just doesn't seem to be skilled enough.

Honeychurch should also go, not skilled enough. Let's see how he goes from now until the end of the year. Maybe he will find some pace and aggression.

If we could con somebody into taking Jong for an under 30 pick, I'd go that too.

[Bulldog4life]

I'd like to see us cut into the list again.

Prudden, Hamilton, Minson as certainties.

MBoyd (retired?), Clay (if another long term injury occurs) as possibilities and trade one of Hrovat/Honeychurch.

The first three are self explanatory. Prudden is injury prone and shown only glimpses, Hamilton is too far behind the rest, Minson's time has come. The next group is dependent on circumstances, but Boyd may well retire and the likelihood of Clay getting a free run at it is probably minimal. I'd trade only one of Hrovat/Honeychurch - whoever we can get the most for.

I'd listen to offers for Stevens, Jong and Roughead.

Goetz/Adcock gone from the RL.

Be interesting to know if Hamilton is the travelling emergency to Adelaide. He might be close to getting a game.

[Rocco Jones]

Time for update!

Trade- Hrovat for upgrade of pick (keep if we can't)
Delist from senior list- Minson, Prudden (Prudden on rookie list to do the right thing. I would also do the same with Will if he is showing right leadership/role modelling qualities). I seriously cannot think of a 3rd to delist if we can't get a trade for Hrovat.
Delist from rookie list- Adcock, Goetz

Not a fan of trading guys like Stevens, Roughy and/or Jong unless they are keen on it too. Cold moves like that can do harm to team dynamic. I strongly believe in logical sentiment. Keep/reward good citizens if you can. Otherwise you can't really expect loyalty the other one.

[bulldogtragic]

Time for update!

Trade- Hrovat for upgrade of pick (keep if we can't)
Delist from senior list- Minson, Prudden (Prudden on rookie list to do the right thing. I would also do the same with Will if he is showing right leadership/role modelling qualities). I seriously cannot think of a 3rd to delist if we can't get a trade for Hrovat.
Delist from rookie list- Adcock, Goetz

Not a fan of trading guys like Stevens, Roughy and/or Jong unless they are keen on it too. Cold moves like that can do harm to team dynamic. I strongly believe in logical sentiment. Keep/reward good citizens if you can. Otherwise you can't really expect loyalty the other one.

Getting tough, eh Lingy?

I still think we need 4 or possibly 5 to accomodate flexibility in free agency and trades. I'm with you Prudden & Minson open up two senior spots and if Goetz & Adcock go that frees up two rookie list spots which I like. With only two first rucks on the list at this point after Minson & Goetz, then both of Camhead are untradable I would think.

But another two or three off the main lists looks very hard, really even more so if Clay stays fit. With all Hrovat's injuries I just can't see any currency worth trading him. So I think it's a bunch of competing good arguments. Could Stevens net us a big trade win? Would Brisbane do a Daniel Bell like trade on Jong we can't really say no to? Would another club target Honeychurch or Hamilton with a decent enough offer? Do we have to be brutal on Matty Boyd?

It's going to be hard, but I think we need to find at least two from Stevens, Jong, Honey, Hamilton & Matty Boyd. I think Boyd said on one of the footy shows this morning the club is waiting until the end of the year with him.

[Rocco Jones]

No way with Matty Boyd. He had a slow start but I think he is massive with his ability to take a mark and find the ball down back. We are a contender and he is the good player bracket.

[bulldogtragic]

No way with Matty Boyd. He had a slow start but I think he is massive with his ability to take a mark and find the ball down back. We are a contender and he is the good player bracket.

Ok, one down. Two or three of Hamilton, Jong, Stevens or Honey.

[Rocco Jones]

It's hard. I really don't like trading or delisting good citizens who are good players. Tears at fabric of team IMO.

[Rocco Jones]

Hamilton has a point of difference I really like and think we need. Best case for us is Jong actually wanting more opportunities and a team being keen on him.

[bulldogtragic]

Hamilton has a point of difference I really like and think we need. Best case for us is Jong actually wanting more opportunities and a team being keen on him.

So two or all of Jong, Stevens & Honey then. Was that so hard? :D

[bulldogtragic]

If the argument for over looking Darcy MacPherson was we had too many smalls. And we haven't changed that by year's end, then Romero Jnr is in the same boat unless he spikes dramatically in his development.

[bornadog]

So two or all of Jong, Stevens & Honey then. Was that so hard? :D

I would prefer to say goodbye to Matty Boyd than lose Stevens, HC or even Jong. Boyd will be 35 next year and we do tend to hang on to players too long for sentimental reasons. Yes Boyd is playing well, but we have to weight up the future of the club, plus age creeps up very quickly on you.

[bulldogtragic]

I would prefer to say goodbye to Matty Boyd than lose Stevens, HC or even Jong. Boyd will be 35 next year and we do tend to hang on to players too long for sentimental reasons. Yes Boyd is playing well, but we have to weight up the future of the club, plus age creeps up very quickly on you.

The other consideration is whether we care (or not) of probably seeing Bob, Boyd & Morris retire in one off season in 2017.

[GVGjr]

I would prefer to say goodbye to Matty Boyd than lose Stevens, HC or even Jong. Boyd will be 35 next year and we do tend to hang on to players too long for sentimental reasons. Yes Boyd is playing well, but we have to weight up the future of the club, plus age creeps up very quickly on you.

You're underselling Matthew Boyd's form this because I'd ask the question Is Matthew Boyd not in near excellent form?
In my opinion you're still too focused on the age of a player than the form or experience they provide.

We won't lose Steven or Honeychurch.

[bulldogtragic]

You're underselling Matthew Boyd's form this because I'd ask the question Is Matthew Boyd not in near excellent form?
In my opinion you're still too focused on the age of a player than the form or experience they provide.

We won't lose Steven or Honeychurch.

Cmon G, give us 4 or 5 names so JMac & SD can give us another brilliant post season?

[boydogs]

(Prudden on rookie list to do the right thing. I would also do the same with Will if he is showing right leadership/role modelling qualities)

We can do better than Prudden. He was on the way out before he did his knee

[Rocco Jones]

We can do better than Prudden. He was on the way out before he did his knee

I have wanted him delisted for a couple of seasons. I am more predicting what they will do than what I would do with Prudden. Beveridge speaks about him quite positively.

[bornadog]

You're underselling Matthew Boyd's form this because I'd ask the question Is Matthew Boyd not in near excellent form?
In my opinion you're still too focused on the age of a player than the form or experience they provide.

We won't lose Steven or Honeychurch.

Once more you didn't read my post.

[Rocco Jones]

I find it odd to delist a player who is probably the bracket after elite in his position/role because he might drop in form next year, especially as we seem to be in contender phase + have an extremely young list.

I find age and height massively overrated. Boyd to me looks younger than Jed Adcock (I know not a fan of him either bad just making a point) despite their respective birth certificates.

[bornadog]

I find it odd to delist a player who is probably the bracket after elite in his position/role because he might drop in form next year, especially as we seem to be in contender phase + have an extremely young list.

I find age and height massively overrated. Boyd to me looks younger than Jed Adcock (I know not a fan of him either bad just making a point) despite their respective birth certificates.

I agree, what I was saying is I would rather lose Boyd than having to Lose a Stevens or HC - two players that will give us many years of service. Sometimes you have to make hard calls.

[chef]

I agree, what I was saying is I would rather lose Boyd than having to Lose a Stevens or HC - two players that will give us many years of service. Sometimes you have to make hard calls.


Same with Murphy and Morris?

[Rocco Jones]

I agree, what I was saying is I would rather lose Boyd than having to Lose a Stevens or HC - two players that will give us many years of service. Sometimes you have to make hard calls.

I don't think we will need to lose either. Minson and Prudden go. Would rather lose Hamitlon or Hrovat, which makes it 3. Delisting 4 means we get pick 60-70 odd. Would much rather help our premiership push and not kill the career of a great servant who is still very good for pick 70.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't think we will need to lose either. Minson and Prudden go. Would rather lose Hamitlon or Hrovat, which makes it 3. Delisting 4 means we get pick 60-70 odd. Would much rather help our premiership push and not kill the career of a great servant who is still very good for pick 70.

What about trading or attracting a free agent? An extra spot could be very valuable. And we have pick 70 from Tahleeya too.

[GVGjr]

Once more you didn't read my post.

I certainly did.

Did you not say


I would prefer to say goodbye to Matty Boyd than lose Stevens, HC or even Jong. Boyd will be 35 next year and we do tend to hang on to players too long for sentimental reasons. Yes Boyd is playing well, but we have to weight up the future of the club, plus age creeps up very quickly on you.

You're essentially say we could hang on to Matthew Boyd for sentimental reasons and I'm challenging why you would think that when his form clearly should have him in the mix. You also mention his age. There is no genuine link between between Boyd staying and because of that decision potentially losing Stevens, HC or Jong. None.
Sentiment also has nothing to do with discussing him this time of the year.

[Twodogs]

I find it odd to delist a player who is probably the bracket after elite in his position/role because he might drop in form next year, especially as we seem to be in contender phase + have an extremely young list.

I find age and height massively overrated. Boyd to me looks younger than Jed Adcock (I know not a fan of him either bad just making a point) despite their respective birth certificates.

He looks younger than Kieren Collins too.

[bulldogtragic]

He looks younger than Kieren Collins too.

He sets em up, and you knock em down. Classic Rocco-Twodogs!

[Twodogs]

He sets em up, and you knock em down. Classic Rocco-Twodogs!


I have been hanging it on Rocco for many years...

[LostDoggy]

I think M Boyd should be part of the delist discussion, his form could drop off dramatically, he is prone to massive clangers in every game, thats not going to get better. He is a legend but he's getting everything out of his body. Morris is more important and Murph will be playing. I think we have the cattle to cover Moyd.
Jong is another i think we can cover.
Should we consider Bailey Dale as a pick upgrade? Id like to hang on to HC and Stevo.

[chef]

I think M Boyd should be part of the delist discussion, his form could drop off dramatically, he is prone to massive clangers in every game, thats not going to get better. He is a legend but he's getting everything out of his body. Morris is more important and Murph will be playing. I think we have the cattle to cover Moyd.
Jong is another i think we can cover.
Should we consider Bailey Dale as a pick upgrade? Id like to hang on to HC and Stevo.


Boyds playing as well as Murphy (pre knee) and Morris. Every player in the league is prone to a clanger. Gee ive seen half a dozen from The Bont over the last fortnight.

[GVGjr]

I think M Boyd should be part of the delist discussion, his form could drop off dramatically, he is prone to massive clangers in every game, thats not going to get better. He is a legend but he's getting everything out of his body. Morris is more important and Murph will be playing. I think we have the cattle to cover Moyd.
Jong is another i think we can cover.
Should we consider Bailey Dale as a pick upgrade? Id like to hang on to HC and Stevo.

I don't mind him being the part of the discussion but right at the moment his form displayed so far this season has been near excellent. Never mind that he won't get better because many players on our list would need to improve massively just to get near his level.

[bulldogtragic]

I think we are a little touchy about Boyd. Boyd said this morning the club won't be talking about 2017 with him until after the season. So that to me says the club is in a wait and see mindset, and him being mentioned by anyone else is just an extension of that. I might just say this is a great problem to have and very, very difficult problem to have. There's no Markovich, Austin, Cheesy types in enough numbers to make it easy. It's because of the complexity differing opinions occur, and that's not a bad thing.

The only consensus is Minson retires or another club wants him and Prudden is cut. I stand by my call that we need to leave open trades and free agency which is a minimum of 4 players cut to have the choices.

So far small trades have Honey, Hamilton, Jong & Hrovat. A bigger trade to net a bigger trade win is Roughy & Stevens. So on this, Roughy is now safe in my view. Hrovat isn't worth enough to trade. I think Honeychurch should stay if he wants unless an offer is too good to refuse.

So that's long hand for: Minson (ret), Prudden (del), Jong (trade) and Honeychurch/Stevens as a trade (we see as a win). Provided Boyd's form and fitness is still elite come end of season.

Or laterally thinking, we can delist Hamilton and re-draft him in the ND with our last pick. If we miss him, that's the hard-bitter pill we have to accept for a strong list. Someone on the list enough of us like is going, better accept it.

Picks 18, 36, 54, 70 (Tahleeya) - trading and free agents in there somewhere.

[GVGjr]

I think we are a little touchy about Boyd. Boyd said this morning the club won't be talking about 2017 with him until after the season.

Who's being touchy about him? I don't mind him being in the mix of the discussion at all but we just can't question his form at the moment. And if he stays it won't be about sentiment.

We need to make 5 or 6 changes to the primary list and I don't think its hard to work out the names that we will either delist/retire or offer up as a trade target. It should largely come down to form and attitude.

[Rocco Jones]

Yeah I don't get the touchy call either.

It seems like the argument for him being possibly delisted is 'forget that he is in really good form, WHAT IF HE REALLY STRUGGLES?!'.

What if Dale Morris goes form being out marked twice in the season to getting bags kicked on him each week?!

[bulldogtragic]

Who's being touchy about him? I don't mind him being in the mix of the discussion at all but we just can't question his form at the moment. And if he stays it won't be about sentiment.

We need to make 5 or 6 changes to the primary list and I don't think its hard to work out the names that we will either delist/retire or offer up as a trade target. It should largely come down to form and attitude.

6 would be a considerable cut. I can't come up with 6 names on the primary list unless we aggressively trade... Minson, Prudden, Hamilton, Jong, Stevens & Hrovat/Honeychurch ???

[Twodogs]

If we are going to strengthen the list with FAs and trades then we are going to have to cut deeper than three. We also can't just ignore drafting in fresh talent and have to make room for them.

Other clubs will be into our guys too. We might lose a couple who get big offers but most of our best players are contracted.

[GVGjr]

I would throw 12 names forward including rookie listed players. This is just a potential list of players.

Potential Delist
Minson - I rate Will and think he was badly done by last season but it's hard to see him at the club next year.
Prudden - A player without that one strength on the field that has him holding his spot.
M.Boyd - In great form and has shown no sign of slowing down but he has a one year contract that could work against him plus we have a number of emerging defenders. The real problem might be that he now lacks that versatility we expect from most of our players.
Adcock - I like him as a depth player and he still might get some senior games through the season. Needs to get a wriggle on
R.Smith - A bit one dimensional and the likes of Lynch of Williams could be regarded as better prospects in similar positions. Will get his chance soon to prove otherwise.
Goetz - A speculative selection last who isn't showing the right signs at the moment. Slight chance to survive
Jong - He's been a real improver but he might have hit his ceiling with us.
Hamling - I think he is very much worth sticking with despite the fact his confidence is down. His athletic traits alone are worth persevering with and he hasn't reached his potential. It might come down to how hard he is prepared to work.
Roberts - Plenty to like about Roberts but the question is more around if he has the capacity to improve and to stay fit and mobile.

I have one more name to add but will wait.

Potential Trade
Hamilton - A very good young player who might attract some interest from SA clubs. We haven't seen the best of him yet and he could easily make his mark before the end of the season.
Hrovat - Just can't get a good enough run at playing. Perhaps he now just has too many players ahead of him with us.
Redpath - I could see a club or two expressing some interest in Jack especially if Tom Boyd regains his spot in the forward line and with a Crameri return in 2017.

I don't think it will be too hard to cut into the list by 5 or 6 players but I suspect it will be the softer option of 4.

[LostDoggy]

Matty may make the decision himself.

Is B Dale a lock to stay then?

[GVGjr]

6 would be a considerable cut. I can't come up with 6 names on the primary list unless we aggressively trade... Minson, Prudden, Hamilton, Jong, Stevens & Hrovat/Honeychurch ???
There is also the option of potentially offering up a rookie spot to an unlucky player. It's a long shot but still a chance.

I just don't know how Stevens name even enters the discussion of a trade or delisting player at the end of the season unless he demands it and I can't see that happening.

[GVGjr]

Matty may make the decision himself.

Is B Dale a lock to stay then?

Of course Matthew Boyd might that decision.

I think Bailey Dale is contracted until the end of next season. We need to be patient with him but I've also liked what I've seen.
I'd just about lock it in.

[bulldogtragic]

Nice post G. So much in there to think about and discuss.

I wonder if we cut the rookie list hard and cut Adcock, Goetz & R. Smith feeling up 3 spots whether Matty Boyd would be up for a potential move to the rookie list as our senior player for 2017 (while still getting two kids). With Clay, Libba & Bob next year we could well afford someone like Boyd to replace them of there were knee issues or other players with LTIs. He'd be light years ahead of Goodes & Adcock. The issue would be whether North would steal Boyd before us in the RD.

[bulldogtragic]

There is also the option of potentially offering up a rookie spot to an unlucky player. It's a long shot but still a chance.

I just don't know how Stevens name even enters the discussion of a trade or delisting player at the end of the season unless he demands it and I can't see that happening.

I think Stevens name was mentioned in getting a trade into the top 6 picks by upgrade.

[GVGjr]

Nice post G. So much in there to think about and discuss.

I wonder if we cut the rookie list hard and cut Adcock, Goetz & R. Smith feeling up 3 spots whether Matty Boyd would be up for a potential move to the rookie list as our senior player for 2017 (while still getting two kids). With Clay, Libba & Bob next year we could well afford someone like Boyd to replace them of there were knee issues or other players with LTIs. He'd be light years ahead of Goodes & Adcock. The issue would be whether North would steal Boyd before us in the RD.

In my opinion, with a player like Matthew Boyd his legacy should not be tarnished by a soft decision to put him on a rookie list. He needs to be either 100% in or 100% out.

I have no problems with players like Goodes or Adcock on rookie lists. Exactly what we needed when we needed to make that decision.

[LostDoggy]

Yeah I don't get the touchy call either.

It seems like the argument for him being possibly delisted is 'forget that he is in really good form, WHAT IF HE REALLY STRUGGLES?!'.

What if Dale Morris goes form being out marked twice in the season to getting bags kicked on him each week?!

I dont think its that at all.

Guys of Boyd and Moz age come with a significant risk and far lower future value. Moz is not easily replaceable but Boyd would be (easier in my opinion), Moz can play on the tall and brutish then blanket Betts. Both give their all.

At the end of the season you may be deciding between two players, humour me, Boyd M and HC (and the incumbent). That would be a hard choice.

[bulldogtragic]

In my opinion, with a player like Matthew Boyd his legacy should not be tarnished by a soft decision to put him on a rookie list. He needs to be either 100% in or 100% out.

I have no problems with players like Goodes or Adcock on rookie lists. Exactly what we needed when we needed to make that decision.

Fair call. In thinking of our flankers next year we have Bob, JJ, Wood, Biggs, Suckling, Williams, Daniel, Cordy, Webb, Dale, Lynch, (Roarke). Is that sufficient back flank depth for the list if Boyd is asked to retire on top of his game?

[GVGjr]

Fair call. In thinking of our flankers next year we have Bob, JJ, Wood, Biggs, Suckling, Williams, Daniel, Cordy, Webb, Dale, Lynch, (Roarke). Is that sufficient back flank depth for the list if Boyd is asked to retire on top of his game?

Seems to be plenty and versatility is the key. Most of the guys listed can play in a few positions.

[hujsh]

I remember how quickly players of the quality of West and Johnson dropped off and plenty on here were saying we kept them on too long and couldn't make the tough call etc. I'd hate to see a champion player struggling again and if it has to be done to keep a promising player on the list, then the 35 year old may be the one who has to go.

[bornadog]

I remember how quickly players of the quality of West and Johnson dropped off and plenty on here were saying we kept them on too long and couldn't make the tough call etc. I'd hate to see a champion player struggling again and if it has to be done to keep a promising player on the list, then the 35 year old may be the one who has to go.

When it comes to picking players week in week out, age should have no bearing, you pick the best players. List management is different. Hawks say hello.

[strebla]

I find the discussion on Matty intriguing currently he is one of the first picked if his form sticks so does he. Keeping a younger player with heaps of upside makes no sense to me Boyd is already there and we all know his fitness is legendary .I can't see him spiralling downward in my eyes he stays if he says he is up to it.and his form holds.

[1eyedog]

I remember how quickly players of the quality of West and Johnson dropped off and plenty on here were saying we kept them on too long and couldn't make the tough call etc. I'd hate to see a champion player struggling again and if it has to be done to keep a promising player on the list, then the 35 year old may be the one who has to go.

I thought we made the call on West and his knee, he wanted to play on. Johnno got to call time on himself, you don't tap a player like Johnno on the shoulder. As Strebla says Boyd plays next year and if his form drops he's dropped to the seconds.

[soupman]

When it comes to picking players week in week out, age should have no bearing, you pick the best players. List management is different. Hawks say hello.

Yep absolutely. List management is different, it requires you to be more ruthless with older guys who are sitting in the 19-22nd player picked category than match day selection.

However certainly atm Boyd doesn't fall into this category. He is having a great year and remains one of our best defenders.

Also our list is in entirely different shape to Hawthorns. The only reason Hawthorn are so hell bent on turning over their older blokes is because they have so many. We are the complete opposite. Our list is incredibly young (on the weekend we had maybe 6 players older than Redpath) and there is no need to make the early call on older blokes like the Hawks or even our 2011 team.

Someone earlier used the example of West and Johnson dropping off and maybe the call had to be made. In their case I agree, Johnno was showing big signs in his second last year that he was dropping off and I remember being a little surprised he was continuing, West I cannot remember the circumstances around but he did cop a serious injury which stopped him pretty quick.

Boyd is the odd one out in that he has shown no sign of injury and contrary to our expectations is performing to as high a standard as ever. Last year he wouldn't have been far off AA and this year hasn't been far off that standard. Unless he starts showing big signs of dropping off later this season I think he gets another year, and even if he does decline I see him as being able to perform the requirements of the Adcock/Goodes spot on our list.

Also I like the double standards we are showing by being all for a Murphy comeback but sceptical about Boyd continuing. One has suffered multiple knee reco's and is missing almost an entire season in the middle of his thirties while another has yet to miss any extended period of time and remains an integral part of our lineup and in excellent form. They have both captained the club and are coming off AA squad worthy seasons, yet one is being pushed towards retirement and the other has been begged to keep going.

[GVGjr]

Also I like the double standards we are showing by being all for a Murphy comeback but sceptical about Boyd continuing. One has suffered multiple knee reco's and is missing almost an entire season in the middle of his thirties while another has yet to miss any extended period of time and remains an integral part of our lineup and in excellent form. They have both captained the club and are coming off AA squad worthy seasons, yet one is being pushed towards retirement and the other has been begged to keep going.

It's an interesting point you have raised. I think the certainty of the Murphy decision regarding the 2017 season and the uncertainty of Boyd going beyond this year is one of the factors in the discussions so far.

To me, it's way too early to predict that Boyd should not be part of the 2017. There is still plenty of this season to play out.

[KT31]

I thought we made the call on West and his knee, he wanted to play on. Johnno got to call time on himself, you don't tap a player like Johnno on the shoulder. As Strebla says Boyd plays next year and if his form drops he's dropped to the seconds.
No you line him up with a golf cart.:(

[Go_Dogs]

Great discussion.

Like most, it's hard to forecast at the moment and all of the names being mentioned (besides Prudden) have half a season to play themselves onto the 2017 list.

If forced to make a call right now:
Minson - been a good player for our club, but doesn't feature in our plans moving forward
Prudden - injury hit at the wrong time, we have a number of players ahead of him
Hrovat - we haven't seen his best but he hasn't been able to get any continuity and has others ahead of him
Jong - I really like what he offers, but he hasn't been able to translate strong VFL form into AFL form

Hrovat and Jong are good chances to find other clubs and have prospects of good careers, but we've got to have belief that players we could pick up in the first few rounds of the draft can come in and improve our list. If we package them up in the right kind of deal maybe involving 2 other clubs we could end up with a similar draft position to this year with a couple of picks around the 20 mark which would be nice and perhaps those picks could trade us up into an early selection.

Anyway, a lot to play out before seasons end.

[1eyedog]

Yep absolutely. List management is different, it requires you to be more ruthless with older guys who are sitting in the 19-22nd player picked category than match day selection.

However certainly atm Boyd doesn't fall into this category. He is having a great year and remains one of our best defenders.

Also our list is in entirely different shape to Hawthorns. The only reason Hawthorn are so hell bent on turning over their older blokes is because they have so many. We are the complete opposite. Our list is incredibly young (on the weekend we had maybe 6 players older than Redpath) and there is no need to make the early call on older blokes like the Hawks or even our 2011 team.

Someone earlier used the example of West and Johnson dropping off and maybe the call had to be made. In their case I agree, Johnno was showing big signs in his second last year that he was dropping off and I remember being a little surprised he was continuing, West I cannot remember the circumstances around but he did cop a serious injury which stopped him pretty quick.

Boyd is the odd one out in that he has shown no sign of injury and contrary to our expectations is performing to as high a standard as ever. Last year he wouldn't have been far off AA and this year hasn't been far off that standard. Unless he starts showing big signs of dropping off later this season I think he gets another year, and even if he does decline I see him as being able to perform the requirements of the Adcock/Goodes spot on our list.

Also I like the double standards we are showing by being all for a Murphy comeback but sceptical about Boyd continuing. One has suffered multiple knee reco's and is missing almost an entire season in the middle of his thirties while another has yet to miss any extended period of time and remains an integral part of our lineup and in excellent form. They have both captained the club and are coming off AA squad worthy seasons, yet one is being pushed towards retirement and the other has been begged to keep going.

Great post as per usual soupaman. Just on the Boyd / Murphy discussion I think it comes down to their points of difference. Boyd is replaceable, Murphy less so. Sure they are / were both operating at capacity but Murph can do everything that Boyd can do but is better by foot, better at carrying the ball and generating attack out of defence. Boyd is a solid medium backman who is cool under pressure and that is it.

If both fit Murph offers so much more so its natural to wish him to continue, he's a one in a decade player for our club but if it comes down to Murph, Biggs, JJ, Wood and Boyd in the backline then Boyd is not in my best 22.

As you say at worse he would be a massive upgrade on the Goodes / Adcock type role.

[LostDoggy]

When it comes to picking players week in week out, age should have no bearing, you pick the best players. List management is different. Hawks say hello.

Geez Minson sure was crucified on the former last year. We sure got away with picking Ayce over him somehow.

[bornadog]

Another player I feel is now under the pump, is Bailey Dale. Needs to start showing more. He hasn't been super impressive in the VFL and needs to start getting more of the ball.

[Mantis]

Another player I feel is now under the pump, is Bailey Dale. Needs to start showing more. He hasn't been super impressive in the VFL and needs to start getting more of the ball.

Agree, but I think until he has a 'mans body' we aren't going to see the best of him.. We seriously need a player with his traits (good user, footy smarts) in the team, but his form doesn't warrant selection at the moment.

[Remi Moses]

Bit early on Bailey Dale . Yeah he needs to improve aspects of his game , but then again all young players do.
Boyd's been just as good as last year and I can see him going around again.
If the form drops he'll be replaced by a few ready to go

[Remi Moses]

Geez Minson sure was crucified on the former last year. We sure got away with picking Ayce over him somehow.

They had to give Ayce a run at it, we had to see what he had to offer.
Sadly not a lot .

[1eyedog]

Another player I feel is now under the pump, is Bailey Dale. Needs to start showing more. He hasn't been super impressive in the VFL and needs to start getting more of the ball.

Agreed. I always thought he was a bit of a one trick pony with a sense of positioning himself for the cheapies. Time will tell.

[GVGjr]

Another player I feel is now under the pump, is Bailey Dale. Needs to start showing more. He hasn't been super impressive in the VFL and needs to start getting more of the ball.

He's certainly a player that I'd be sticking with.

I get why his name might be mentioned but he's basically one and a half seasons into a career and yet we are expecting more from him.

The days of playing 50 or 60 reserves games before the call up to the seniors and supporters patiently waiting are as good as over. Like Webb I think Dale might be a victim of achieving too much in his first season. For what it's worth I think he is signed until the end of next season

[F'scary]

I like to put in a word for Jong (and perhaps 1 or 2 others). Clubs play about 35 players from their list of 40 every year. If everyone on your list was first 22 quality, you would bleed players. So, the reality is you need some players who you might not consider first 22 but who will be available to step in as required. Some of these players could be 4 to 8 years on your list without being list cloggers. It is a fine line but you can't have 40 Bontempellis on your list and you don't want to be wallowing in last place because you are forever turning over 18 year olds hoping for instant stars.

[Twodogs]

He's certainly a player that I'd be sticking with.

I get why his name might be mentioned but he's basically one and a half seasons into a career and yet we are expecting more from him.

The days of playing 50 or 60 reserves games before the call up to the seniors and supporters patiently waiting are as good as over. Like Webb I think Dale might be a victim of achieving too much in his first season. For what it's worth I think he is signed until the end of next season

Agree strongly. I think he is the sort who only needs to improve a few things to become a very good player. A bit of composure and poise some confidence in his ability and we could have a quality ball user.

[josie]

We need more outside, reasonably, long & bullet like kick players. Not everyone needs to be a hard at it, inside player. I think Bailey Dale is a "keeper", unless another club offers us something pretty good. He has that smooth style like Bob. I think the MC see this and that's why he has been elevated a few times. Also a reasonably reliable kick for goal. Lanky, however I think he will fill out a bit more and become a good player for us in a few years.

[Twodogs]

We need more outside, reasonably, long & bullet like kick players. Not everyone needs to be a hard at it, inside player. I think Bailey Dale is a "keeper", unless another club offers us something pretty good. He has that smooth style like Bob. I think the MC see this and that's why he has been elevated a few times. Also a reasonably reliable kick for goal. Lanky, however I think he will fill out a bit more and become a good player for us in a few years.

Thinks his way through situations really quickly too. It may not always come off at the moment though. Hopefully with experience he works out what he can and can't do and plays in several premierships with us.

[The Doctor]

Nick Bowen from AFL.com has us linked with Wood (NM) Nicholls (GC) & Vardy (Geel)

[bulldogtragic]

Nick Bowen from AFL.com has us linked with Wood (NM) Nicholls (GC) & Vardy (Geel)

Thanks Doc. Any basis to it, or did he pick 3 big blokes and forget to mention John Butcher?

[azabob]

Mason Wood can play. North would be crazy not to keep playing him.

[The Doctor]

Thanks Doc. Any basis to it, or did he pick 3 big blokes and forget to mention John Butcher?

It came from his online chat re:trading speculation when someone asked him who the dogs were into. There was no elaboration.

[Axe Man]

Nick Bowen from AFL.com has us linked with Wood (NM) Nicholls (GC) & Vardy (Geel)

There's been a few mentions of us being interested in Nicholls, may be something to it. Not sure what that would mean for Camhead.

I like Wood, but not sure how he fits into our forward line.

Vardy would want to remain injury free for the rest of this season for us to consider him.

[Bulldog4life]

There's been a few mentions of us being interested in Nicholls, may be something to it. Not sure what that would mean for Camhead.

I like Wood, but not sure how he fits into our forward line.

Vardy would want to remain injury free for the rest of this season for us to consider him.

Apparently Bevo coached Nicholls brother at St.Bedes. Not sure if that is got anything to do with it but was mentioned in the HUN.

[Mofra]

Vardy would want to remain injury free for the rest of this season for us to consider him.
In other words, we won't consider him.
Gun when fit, but Tom Williams pities Nathan Vardy. He is that unlucky with his body.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Mason Wood? Yes please.

I'd be all over it if there's any possibility. Will be a genuine gun.

[azabob]

Mason Wood? Yes please.

I'd be all over it if there's any possibility. Will be a genuine gun.

Which is why it is so puzzling North have only really started consistently playing him when injuries hit.

[ledge]

Scott plays his favourites, that's why it's an aging list. Very hard for some young players to get games.
Wood had been killing it in the twos for a while.
The loss of Higgins helped his cause, personally I wouldn't have chased Higgins and just played Wood.
But I suppose premiership window is open so get in Higgins .. I don't think Nth are looking to the future and are looking at a flag this year.
God help nth in a year or two when the older guys retire and they aren't getting good draft picks.

[azabob]

Good post Ledge, agree with all of the above.

[GVGjr]

Nick Bowen from AFL.com has us linked with Wood (NM) Nicholls (GC) & Vardy (Geel)

All decent names to be linked with. I wonder what we would need top part with to land one or two of them?

[Remi Moses]

Staggered Wood didn't play earlier in the year . Way better player than Turner .
Wonder what Roscoe thinks ? Vardy would be a permanent figure in the Tom Williams injury centre, and I reckon the Roughy Big Tom combo is going well . Tom Lamb from West Coast looking to come home

[ledge]

Thought I read some somewhere Vardy is staying at Leicester

[bulldogtragic]

Staggered Wood didn't play earlier in the year . Way better player than Turner .
Wonder what Roscoe thinks ? Vardy would be a permanent figure in the Tom Williams injury centre, and I reckon the Roughy Big Tom combo is going well . Tom Lamb from West Coast looking to come home

I like Vardy's talent, but unless it's a low pick it's a big gamble due to his constant injuries. Lamb is an interesting one as I don't know what AFL position he will play and how good. His punch and suspension in his final TAC year still sticks with me as regard to what is going on in between his ears.

It's a shame there's nothing too much in the free agency cabinet this year.

[Remi Moses]

I like Vardy's talent, but unless it's a low pick it's a big gamble due to his constant injuries. Lamb is an interesting one as I don't know what AFL position he will play and how good. His punch and suspension in his final TAC year still sticks with me as regard to what is going on in between his ears.

It's a shame there's nothing too much in the free agency cabinet this year.

Lamb's got a bit of the Everitt's about him , and was reported to have a bit off an attitude.
Jon Ralph has us as one of the club's circling Hurley, which would be interesting .

[bulldogtragic]

Lamb's got a bit of the Everitt's about him , and was reported to have a bit off an attitude.
Jon Ralph has us as one of the club's circling Hurley, which would be interesting .

Hurley would be a huge get, I just read the article and surely we are a better option than North or Adelaide for him. Even more so great is that his status is a delisted free agent and only costs us wages. This would be my priority, and also look at possibly trading our first rounder to go after a ready made midfield gun.

[comrade]

Man, snaring Hurley as a FA would be unbelievable.

If this happens, I'd look to offload our first for a star (Hill, Walters caliber) and just go all out next year. Plus add Crameri!

Time to earn your money, JMac.

[bulldogtragic]

Man, snaring Hurley as a FA would be unbelievable.

If this happens, I'd look to offload our first for a star (Hill, Walters caliber) and just go all out next year.

Time to earn your money, JMac.

It's the stuff of our dreams really. Look to have Collins & Fletch competing for full back. Hurley at CHB. Morris 3rd tall with Cordy to takeover when he retires. Wood & Adams as athletic tall intercept defenders. Hamling for depth. Too many rebounders to mention.

Someone like Dion Prestia in the guts or Steve Hill on a wing would be amazing for our first rounder (inc. some tweaks). Would we roll the dice with our 2017 first rounder (hopefully 14-18) on someone like Wood, or second rounder (hopefully 32-38) and a 23-28 player (Jong etc) on someone like McStay?

Provided we aren't looking at any other free agents that's 5 or 6 players we need gone from the primary list with a trade & free agent. Minson, Prudden, Jong and two/three more (maybe from M. Boyd, Hamilton, Hamling, Honeychurch, Hrovat).

[azabob]

Apparently Lin Jong was seen touring the Collingwood facilities last week before the Sydney game. Being uncontracted will be interesting to see how it plays out.

[bulldogtragic]

Apparently Lin Jong was seen touring the Collingwood facilities last week before the Sydney game. Being uncontracted will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I think a few clubs would be after him. A bidding war would be a good thing, if not a little fanciful on my part.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Apparently Lin Jong was seen touring the Collingwood facilities last week before the Sydney game. Being uncontracted will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Are negotiations allowed to be so overt during the season? I thought discussions during the season were only allowed to be whispered sweet nothings between club and player agent?
I'd be really disappointed if one of our guys was waltzing through another clubs facility. Not sure how necessary it would be for a player to have to physically get a set of eyes on Collingwood's facilities to know how well they are kitted out.
I suspect this might be bs.

[comrade]

Is that kosher?

Keep your eye on the prize and leave that shite until after the season. If you're not on board, you can play at Footscray for the rest of the year.

[F'scary]

Lin is our multicultural ambassador. If he was at Collingwood HQ, it may have been for an AFL meeting in that role.

[Twodogs]

Lin is our multicultural ambassador. If he was at Collingwood HQ, it may have been for an AFL meeting in that role.

I thought it might have been some official role. Collingwood would be stupid to parade an opposition player through their facility during the season.

[ledge]

I thought it might have been some official role. Collingwood would be stupid to parade an opposition player through their facility during the season.

We did it with Boyd apparently and he was still under contract.

[The Doctor]

Collingwood are stupid

edited for accuracy after all they gave away their future for Treloar to GWS. Of all clubs why would you do it for them? Why make the future super power even stronger. Idiots.

[BulldogBelle]

Western Bulldogs midfielder Lin Jong tours Collingwood facilities midseason
Jay Clark, Herald Sun

WESTERN Bulldogs midfielder Lin Jong toured Collingwood’s facilities in the days before he played in the Dogs’ pulsating win over Sydney on Saturday.

The out-of-contract Bulldog met with a Magpies official after hours at the Holden Centre last week as he weighs up his footballing future.

Clubs are permitted to talk to rival players and their managers, but stepping inside a rival club in-season is uncommon.

The Bulldogs have attempted to re-sign Jong this season, but they have been unable to agree to terms.

Jong, 23, has not reached any agreement with the Magpies, but is believed to be considering his options.

Sources close to the 188cm hard-nut confirmed the night-time visit to Collingwood’s Olympic Park headquarters.
Lin Jong gets a kick away against North Melbourne.

The ball-winner has been in and out of the Bulldogs’ senior team, playing seven AFL games this season.

He had 20 possessions and three clearances in the thrilling win over the Swans.

Jong has played 30 AFL games in five seasons at the kennel and could move elsewhere for more senior opportunities next year.

Gold Coast chased the No.9 pick in the 2009 rookie draft in last year’s trade period, but he turned the Suns down.

Despite high hopes for 2016, the growing depth on the Bulldogs’ list has pushed Jong to the fringes of senior selection.

The Oakleigh product was also suspended for two matches for making high contact to young Giant Matthew Buntine in Round 9.

Jong underwent groin surgery in the off-season and said he wanted to model his game on Geelong superstar Patrick Dangerfield.

“The way he uses his speed is something I’d really like to do,” Jong told the AFL website in March.

“The coaches tell me to use my speed as much as I can and break away from packs a bit more.

“Patrick is such a great player and I aspire to be a better player and keep improving, so I like to adapt my game to his.”

How Collingwood could secure Jong in either this year’s trade or draft periods remains unclear.

Collingwood does not have a first-round pick in this year’s draft after using it to secure star midfielder Adam Treloar last year.

The club also needs to amass draft points if it is to nab father-son propositions Callum Brown and Josh Daicos, so any trade move for Jong would be difficult.

However, out-of-contract ruckman Jarrod Witts could be put up for trade to bolster the Magpies’ position. Full-back Nathan Brown is also a free agent this year.

Western Bulldogs officials met with recruit Tom Boyd at Peter Gordon’s house in 2014, midway through Boyd’s first season at Greater Western Sydney.

Neither the Dogs or the Pies would comment.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/collingwood/western-bulldogs-midfielder-lin-jong-tours-collingwood-facilities-midseason/news-story/e99d20f49a1bd8207dc0e8bab56946f0

[bulldogtragic]

Witts? Is he any good? Is the suggestion in the article Jong is worth a first rounder??

[hujsh]

I thought it might have been some official role. Collingwood would be stupid to parade an opposition player through their facility during the season.
They often are

EDIT: Beaten to it by the Doc'

[comrade]

Bidding war between Pies and GC? I could live with that.

[Twodogs]

edited for accuracy after all they gave away their future for Treloar to GWS. Of all clubs why would you do it for them? Why make the future super power even stronger. Idiots.

I don't know. What a boneheaded thing to do.

[bornadog]

If true then it is not on doing this sort of stuff mid season. Agree with Comrade, back to Footscray.

In Stevens, Out Jong (if true)

[Twodogs]

Wow. I sure am an expert on stupid.

[Rocco Jones]

If true then it is not on doing this sort of stuff mid season. Agree with Comrade, back to Footscray.

In Stevens, Out Jong (if true)

Not a fan of this. Reactionary/punitive/un-Beveridge mantra.

We don't know contract we offered Jong but in all likelihood a one year deal, probably not ok much coin. He isn't a star, he is in career survival mode. He isn't deciding on how rich he wants to be. Obviously I prefer this to not come out but some players can afford to be loyal and some can't. Let's be realistic. We know Jong is a good citizen. Let's not burn him. Sometimes 'good guys' need to leave. Look at how strong clubs treat players who want to leave for career reasons. Hawks and Swans are good examples.

[Mantis]

I would suggest that it happens more than we would like to admit.. Agree with Rocco that our deal could have been bare bones and he is looking to secure his future... I have no issue with that.. Will be interesting to see how the club reacts.

I think he has been pretty good in our last 2 games against elite opposition and on form he stays in.. Hopefully if his form continues we can put forward a more attractive deal, but in all likelihood he is the type of player that will probably be squeezed out as we begin to feel salary cap pressure.

[westdog54]

I would suggest that it happens more than we would like to admit.. Agree with Rocco that our deal could have been bare bones and he is looking to secure his future... I have no issue with that.. While be interesting to see how the club reacts.

I think he has been pretty good in our last 2 games against elite opposition and on form he stays in.. Hopefully if his form continues we can put forward a more attractive deal, but in all likelihood he is the type of player that will probably be squeezed out as we begin to feel salary cap pressure.

Yep, agree with this.

If he's best 22 at any given time then he's best 22, irrespective of our plans next year. We've still got a premiership to try and win.

[Mantis]

If he's best 22 at any given time then he's best 22, irrespective of our plans next year. We've still got a premiership to try and win.

It was pretty well known that Suckling was going to leave Hawthorn last year, he may well have even visited our club through the year, but he remained within their best 22 and was influential in helping them make a GF whilst the coaching staff probably knew he was out the door when the season ceased.. I hope we take this lead, we know that post season can lead to crazy stuff (2014), but whilst the season is going it's business as usual and players should be picked on form and the role they play.. Nothing else.

[Twodogs]

It was pretty well known that Suckling was going to leave Hawthorn last year, he may well have even visited our club through the year, but he remained within their best 22 and was influential in helping them make a GF whilst the coaching staff probably knew he was out the door when the season ceased.. I hope we take this lead, we know that post season can lead to crazy stuff (2014), but whilst the season is going it's business as usual and players should be picked on form and the role they play.. Nothing else.

From what I read Brisbane and us were all over Suckling last season.

[Cyberdoggie]

Perhaps this is a deliberate action from Lin's camp to highlight his value in the market place. Perhaps they are sick of bare bones contracts and are trying to draw something more substantial.

[LostDoggy]

I also think this is him trying to get a better offer from Bulldogs as previously said he more than likely got 1 yr offer. Don't blame him trying to secure his future.
Doubt he would go interstate as I believe he is very close to family.

[comrade]

If he was open and honest about seeking offers and touring clubs, no problems. If it was clandestine, I have an issue with it and I'm sure Bevo would too

[Ozza]

edited for accuracy after all they gave away their future for Treloar to GWS. Of all clubs why would you do it for them? Why make the future super power even stronger. Idiots.

Don't know that I agree with 'Traded away their future for Treloar'.

Treloar is a proven star and will be one of the best players in the competition for some time. You have to give up something to get a star from another club.

"Why make the future super power even stronger. Idiots"....guess the Bulldogs are idiots too then.

[Mantis]

Don't know that I agree with 'Traded away their future for Treloar'.

Treloar is a proven star and will be one of the best players in the competition for some time. You have to give up something to get a star from another club.

"Why make the future super power even stronger. Idiots"....guess the Bulldogs are idiots too then.

On the Doc's rationale we are even bigger idiots.. At least Treloar was proven... We paid a bigger price for a speculative (abit highly talented) player.

[hujsh]

On the Doc's rationale we are even bigger idiots.. At least Treloar was proven... We paid a bigger price for a speculative (abit highly talented) player.

Not sure about that. 2 top 10 picks vs 1 top ten pick and an aging, past his best superstar. I'd take the 2 picks.

[bulldogtragic]

Not sure about that. 2 top 10 picks vs 1 top ten pick and an aging, past his best superstar. I'd take the 2 picks.

Yep. The like for like comparison values Gryphone & his fused spine at pick 5. It's all moot now. We've all made our bed and we have to get the best out of Boyd & Collingwood with Treloar.

[bornadog]

On the Doc's rationale we are even bigger idiots.. At least Treloar was proven... We paid a bigger price for a speculative (abit highly talented) player.

Griffen was leaving anyway, his back is shot. In effect we gave pick 6 for a pick 1 plus a player past his best.

[Mantis]

Not sure about that. 2 top 10 picks vs 1 top ten pick and an aging, past his best superstar. I'd take the 2 picks.

Griffen was still our best player when he left, as seen by his last game in our colours.. His finish to that season was very good and it wasn't a sure thing that his body would have the issues that it has.

We gave up pick 6 + our best player + our best players wage for Boyd.

Coll gave up 2 x 1st round picks (not certain to be top 10 selections) for Treloar + a 2nd rd pick.

I stand by by statement that we gave up more.

[LostDoggy]

I thought Griff had a very disappointing season and was severely hampered by an ongoing condition, his best years were behind him and thats certainly been the case. I was very happy for the trade. We had plenty of salary cap space at the time too to absorb his wage into the following season.

[Mofra]

If he was open and honest about seeking offers and touring clubs, no problems. If it was clandestine, I have an issue with it and I'm sure Bevo would too
This. A lot depends on whether the club knew prior to the tour.

[bornadog]

As I said in the other thread, if 10 players were out of contract would WOOFers be happy they were touring other clubs? Where do you draw the line?

[FrediKanoute]

OK, so now who do we think is in the gun. Personally, main list only its:

Jong
Prudden
Hrovat
Honeychurch
Dale
Hamling
Hamilton

I think that looking at the draft and who we are expecting to pick up as father sons over the next 3 years, we will be looking to move on midfielders who haven't cemented a spot - Romero, West, Kellet, Libba #2 are all expected to make the grade so there is a good chance we will need to make room in the smalls area.

Prudden may get a rookie shot; Rourke Smith they like and will get another rookie year.

[Bulldog4life]

As I said in the other thread, if 10 players were out of contract would WOOFers be happy they were touring other clubs? Where do you draw the line?

No I wouldn't BAD. I didn't like Jong doing it. Really bad move on his behalf and I hope he learns from it.

[bulldogtragic]

OK, so now who do we think is in the gun. Personally, main list only its:

Jong
Prudden
Hrovat
Honeychurch
Dale
Hamling
Hamilton

I think that looking at the draft and who we are expecting to pick up as father sons over the next 3 years, we will be looking to move on midfielders who haven't cemented a spot - Romero, West, Kellet, Libba #2 are all expected to make the grade so there is a good chance we will need to make room in the smalls area.

Prudden may get a rookie shot; Rourke Smith they like and will get another rookie year.

Prudden & Minson are my two certs. I think Prudden is too far behind in the order even for a rookie spot. Jong may well have ended his time with us too. So that 3 of the 5 changes I think we need to make.

I'd consider trades for Hrovat (but don't think we'd get enough to make it worth while) and Honeychurch (who may have some currency). Assuming one goes that 4 of 5. Then it's a tough call on maybe Hamling or Hamilton or whether Matt Boyd retires on his terms. Dale is a required player in my book.

So there's my 7 names to get 5 spots. Rookie list prune of Adcock & Goetz if some VFL watchers on here are anything to go on. Roarke & Lynch stay on the rookie list. So my ideal strategy is a good trade in, a decent free agent/second trade, 3 live picks in the ND and 1 or 2 live picks in the RD. Hopefully some spare cash too.

Next year may see all of Bob, Boyd & Morris retire so we will see if Roarke, Lynch and others can show themselves as half back replacements. With a trade out and a delist, we may have 5 spots again next year with the same flexibility for trades, free agents and live picks for 2017. Rhylee West isn't ready until 2018 and Kellett & Libba until 2019. So we have time to assess the list for a while yet.

[Prince Imperial]

Dale is under contract next year: http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2015-09-18/pups-pair-extend-deals

[LostDoggy]

Prudden & Minson are my two certs. I think Prudden is too far behind in the order even for a rookie spot. Jong may well have ended his time with us too. So that 3 of the 5 changes I think we need to make.

I'd consider trades for Hrovat (but don't think we'd get enough to make it worth while) and Honeychurch (who may have some currency). Assuming one goes that 4 of 5. Then it's a tough call on maybe Hamling or Hamilton or whether Matt Boyd retires on his terms. Dale is a required player in my book.

So there's my 7 names to get 5 spots. Rookie list prune of Adcock & Goetz if some VFL watchers on here are anything to go on. Roarke & Lynch stay on the rookie list. So my ideal strategy is a good trade in, a decent free agent/second trade, 3 live picks in the ND and 1 or 2 live picks in the RD. Hopefully some spare cash too.

Next year may see all of Bob, Boyd & Morris retire so we will see if Roarke, Lynch and others can show themselves as half back replacements. With a trade out and a delist, we may have 5 spots again next year with the same flexibility for trades, free agents and live picks for 2017. Rhylee West isn't ready until 2018 and Kellett & Libba until 2019. So we have time to assess the list for a while yet.

Yeah I agree with most of this.

Honey only for a good offer, likewise Dale,.
If the rat was on the ASX I would retain him for another season as there would be a high chance of a rise in value.

We have to consider MBoyd, but he is in great form. Morris is required. Matty may just be someone we can cover while keeping the list healthy for years to come.

I'd hold on to Hammers.

Minson, Prudden, Hamilton, Jong to go.

[Bulldog Joe]

Have been thinking about a few issues with this and agree that Minson is done.

However, we do have a conundrum with our ruck stocks. Roughead has established himself as the No 1 choice and is clearly our best round the ground with contested marking. Tom Boyd is the best option as the forward/ruck.

This leaves Campbell effectively as cover, but I would see him as expecting games. As a consequence, he appears one of our best trade options. We simply cannot afford to pay what he is worth to play VFL.

We could then draft in a mature ager as cover and keep space in the cap.

[comrade]

I don't know if Roughy is the clear #1 choice. He's only ever one contest away from an injury that keeps him out for a while.

2-3 weeks ago, it could have been argued that TC was our best ruckman for the year.

Still plenty to play out in terms of our ruck stocks.

[Bulldog Joe]

I don't know if Roughy is the clear #1 choice. He's only ever one contest away from an injury that keeps him out for a while.

2-3 weeks ago, it could have been argued that TC was our best ruckman for the year.

Still plenty to play out in terms of our ruck stocks.

I know he regularly looks like he has suffered an injury in game but he has actually been quite durable this year.

[bornadog]

I don't know if Roughy is the clear #1 choice. He's only ever one contest away from an injury that keeps him out for a while.

2-3 weeks ago, it could have been argued that TC was our best ruckman for the year.

Still plenty to play out in terms of our ruck stocks.

Between TC and Roughie - TC is the better tap ruck, Roughie better around the ground, and I would have to give it to TC for better forward.

[comrade]

Looks like there might be some post season action if Koby, Jong and TC all look elsewhere.

Could be a good opportunity to package up some picks and get access to some top end talent in the draft.

[kruder]

Griffen was still our best player when he left, as seen by his last game in our colours.. His finish to that season was very good and it wasn't a sure thing that his body would have the issues that it has.

We gave up pick 6 + our best player + our best players wage for Boyd.

Coll gave up 2 x 1st round picks (not certain to be top 10 selections) for Treloar + a 2nd rd pick.

I stand by by statement that we gave up more.

Yep would have loved a second round section back from GWS. The interesting thing is that apparently we were very keen on 2 metre Peter at pick 6.

[bulldogtragic]

A report going around 4 other clubs are chasing Koby Stevens very hard. Do we sign him up as a must have contract, or see if a bidding war nets us a pick or player we would really want?

[azabob]

On Stevens I don't think we have enough depth or wins on the board to let best 22 players was out the door with ready made replacements.

[azabob]

A report going around 4 other clubs are chasing Koby Stevens very hard. Do we sign him up as a must have contract, or see if a bidding war nets us a pick or player we would really want?

Very rarely do bidding wars happening between clubs anymore. Current trend is the player nominates which club they want and it's up to the clubs to get the deal done.

[bulldogtragic]

On Stevens I don't think we have enough depth or wins on the board to let best 22 players was out the door with ready made replacements.

Say it was for a swap for a Prestia or Hill who would also be best 22, but in a slightly different role.

[azabob]

Say it was for a swap for a Prestia or Hill who would also be best 22, but in a slightly different role.

I could live with a best 22 replacement, especially with outside speed.

[GVGjr]

I find it a bit hard to believe Stevens name is being thrown around as a possible trade candidate and I also find it strange more here on WOOF aren't challenging that suggestion.

He's a leader at the club, in the right age bracket with experience for us and I think he should be regarded as being in our best 15 players. If he's keen to explore his options then so be it but I have read nothing to say he wants to do that.

I'm sure there will be some takers but can anyone give me something plausible to say we would be better by letting him go?
What plausible deal makes it worthwhile to trade Koby?

[bulldogtragic]

I find it a bit hard to believe Stevens name is being thrown around as a possible trade candidate and I also find it strange more here on WOOF aren't challenging that suggestion.

He's a leader at the club, in the right age bracket with experience for us and I think he should be regarded as being in our best 15 players. If he's keen to explore his options then so be it but I have read nothing to say he wants to do that.

I'm sure there will be some takers but can anyone give me something plausible to say we would be better by letting him go?
What plausible deal makes it worthwhile to trade Koby?

What I said was this report (real or otherwise) is out there. Then I asked do we sign him up immediately (presumably increasing our offer) or do we see if the market rate for him nets us a player we want, but can't readily acquire without him in the trade. It's a question.

The deal that makes it worthwhile trading Koby is the deal the club determines to be worthwhile in trading Koby, as a matter of logic.

[Mantis]

I find it a bit hard to believe Stevens name is being thrown around as a possible trade candidate and I also find it strange more here on WOOF aren't challenging that suggestion.

He's a leader at the club, in the right age bracket with experience for us and I think he should be regarded as being in our best 15 players. If he's keen to explore his options then so be it but I have read nothing to say he wants to do that.

Really? In picking our best team I would have as one of the last picked.. if picked at all.

As mids all of Libba, Bont, Dahl, Hunter, Macrae and Wallis are better players than Stevens... So where does he fit in?


I'm sure there will be some takers but can anyone give me something plausible to say we would be better by letting him go?
What plausible deal makes it worthwhile to trade Koby?

I put his name up a while back and I was happy if he was used to get ourselves into a better draft position.

eg. Stevens + our 1st pick = a top 4-6 pick.

I see our team as having a lot of the same types, hard, slowish mids with only average kicking skills.. Adding some real speed & kicking skills is a must if we are to continue to improve.

[GVGjr]

Really? In picking our best team I would have as one of the last picked.. if picked at all.

As mids all of Libba, Bont, Dahl, Hunter, Macrae and Wallis are better players than Stevens... So where does he fit in?


Yes really, an emphatic really.
To me he fits in nicely and I don't see how he misses selection. With limited rotations we need flexible players and I think Stevens compliments the players above.



I put his name up a while back and I was happy if he was used to get ourselves into a better draft position.

eg. Stevens + our 1st pick = a top 4-6 pick.

I see our team as having a lot of the same types, hard, slowish mids with only average kicking skills.. Adding some real speed & kicking skills is a must if we are to continue to improve.

I asked for a plausible deal that makes trading Stevens worthwhile, what you've suggested is highly unlikely given the nature of what teams with academy players and teams with early selections are likely to consider. I just can't see any of the teams likely to have top 6 selections that would take deal. Which teams do you feel would be ready to be fleeced in a draft with midfield depth?

As for the 'slowish mids' we don't look too slow when we are up and running but of course we could always find room for another Johannisen type. Stevens is not the perfect player but I believe he fits our team in a few areas. Happy to have him as part of the trade discussions but they need to be realistic.

[bornadog]

Stevens is best 22 and has been in excellent form this year. He is averaging 24 disposals per game with a year high of 34 and his defensive side is excellent. He is also pretty accurate in front of goal and is the sort of player that fits in with Bevo's game plan. At age 25, I would not be giving him up for some untried 18 year old who may or may not make it.

[Mantis]

Yes really, an emphatic really.
To me he fits in nicely and I don't see how he misses selection. With limited rotations we need flexible players and I think Stevens compliments the players above.

I guess we will see if/when we get a full list to choose from.. And I know Bevo is a fan and will pick him so I'm pushing shit up hill, but I would prefer others.


I asked for a plausible deal that makes trading Stevens worthwhile, what you've suggested is highly unlikely given the nature of what teams with academy players and teams with early selections are likely to consider. I just can't see any of the teams likely to have top 6 selections that would take deal. Which teams do you feel would be ready to be fleeced in a draft with midfield depth?

A team like GC (especially if they lose Prestia or O'Meara or both) could use some midfield depth with a mature player.. Carlton are another.


As for the 'slowish mids' we don't look too slow when we are up and running but of course we could always find room for another Johannisen type. Stevens is not the perfect player but I believe he fits our team in a few areas. Happy to have him as part of the trade discussions but they need to be realistic.

All teams look great when they are up & going, but we looked painfully slow agaisnt Geelong a few weeks back... Hopefully no more repeat performances to come, but if there are we need to change the mix.. And I know Stevens (and others) weren't there, but pace in defensive transition was lacking and adding Stevens doesn't help in this area.

[GVGjr]

A team like GC (especially if they lose Prestia or O'Meara or both) could use some midfield depth with a mature player.. Carlton are another.


To me the more likely scenario is for teams like GC or the Lions trading/swapping 2nd round selections with clubs higher up the ladder if they can acquire an experienced player in a deal but they still both need early picks and points for their academy players. Perhaps something creative might peak their interest.

My gut feel is Carlton will once again look at doing deals for GWS players.

[comrade]

Yes really, an emphatic really.
To me he fits in nicely and I don't see how he misses selection. With limited rotations we need flexible players and I think Stevens compliments the players above.



I asked for a plausible deal that makes trading Stevens worthwhile, what you've suggested is highly unlikely given the nature of what teams with academy players and teams with early selections are likely to consider. I just can't see any of the teams likely to have top 6 selections that would take deal. Which teams do you feel would be ready to be fleeced in a draft with midfield depth?

As for the 'slowish mids' we don't look too slow when we are up and running but of course we could always find room for another Johannisen type. Stevens is not the perfect player but I believe he fits our team in a few areas. Happy to have him as part of the trade discussions but they need to be realistic.

You think he's in the top 15 of a top 4 contender but you don't think he can be packaged up for a higher pick?

[GVGjr]

You think he's in the top 15 of a top 4 contender but you don't think he can be packaged up for a higher pick?

I've supplied the reasons, have a look at them and then tell me which teams you think would do the deal?

[Mantis]

To me the more likely scenario is for teams like GC or the Lions trading/swapping 2nd round selections with clubs higher up the ladder if they can acquire an experienced player in a deal but they still both need early picks and points for their academy players. Perhaps something creative might peak their interest.



Don't GC already have 3 first round picks for this year? They may get a few more if Prestia and O'Meara depart.. How many do they need?

[GVGjr]

Don't GC already have 3 first round picks for this year? They may get a few more if Prestia and O'Meara depart.. How many do they need?

GWS have done pretty well stock pilling first round selections. I would have thought GC need to play the long game now that injuries and a few other reasons have dropped them back to the field a bit. I think they currently have 2 first round selections and 3 second round picks in 2016.

They have a highly rated academy player in Bowes they need to cater for so that might burn a bit of currency.

[Twodogs]

To me the more likely scenario is for teams like GC or the Lions trading/swapping 2nd round selections with clubs higher up the ladder if they can acquire an experienced player in a deal but they still both need early picks and points for their academy players. Perhaps something creative might peak their interest.

My gut feel is Carlton will once again look at doing deals for GWS players.

If you could put a bet on Carlton giving GWS draft picks for players you'd make money.

[Ozza]

I would love to see a scenario where he could upgrade our first round selection. Dalrymple is bloody brilliant - I'd love to keep putting good ammo in his hands for a couple of years yet!

[Rocco Jones]

Delist from senior list- Prudden, Minson, Hamilton
Delist from rookie list- Goetz, Adcock
Trade (keep if we can't get anything worthwhile)- Honeychurch, Hrovat
Trade if he wants to go- Jong

I am happy enough to just delist 3. Our 4th round pick would be in the 65-70 zone, pretty likely the same player would be available in the rookie draft.

[FrediKanoute]

Delist from senior list- Prudden, Minson, Hamilton
Delist from rookie list- Goetz, Adcock
Trade (keep if we can't get anything worthwhile)- Honeychurch, Hrovat
Trade if he wants to go- Jong

I am happy enough to just delist 3. Our 4th round pick would be in the 65-70 zone, pretty likely the same player would be available in the rookie draft.

That's my list - would probably add Hamling to the list of under scrutiny. Think Hrovat will be held onto - quality footballer who has had a tough run with injury. Honeychurch I think is not in Bevo's plans.

[bulldogtragic]

Seems to firming a little this way. Id add in Hamling in the questionable group. I think we need to keep free agency open with a fourth or even five spots. With rumours abound on Hurley (hopefully as a DFA) and Gordon saying we will be active (rumours on Vardy, Prestia etc) I think we need 4, and who knows maybe another club goes hard at some of our uncontracted players?

[Rocco Jones]

That's my list - would probably add Hamling to the list of under scrutiny. Think Hrovat will be held onto - quality footballer who has had a tough run with injury. Honeychurch I think is not in Bevo's plans.

I would hold onto both Hrovat and Honeychurch if we can't get anything of semi-decent value.

Hamling is next on the chopping block for mine. I do see some potential growth in him still though and maybe a decent look at him forward before we let him go though.

[bulldogtragic]

I would hold onto both Hrovat and Honeychurch if we can't get anything of semi-decent value.

Hamling is next on the chopping block for mine. I do see some potential growth in him still though and maybe a decent look at him forward before we let him go though.

Agree on H & H. I'd want something worthwhile for them. They'd be best 15 at Brisbane, perhaps a player trade if we like someone that plays a role we need/want.

[LostDoggy]

Delist from senior list- Prudden, Minson, Hamilton
Delist from rookie list- Goetz, Adcock
Trade (keep if we can't get anything worthwhile)- Honeychurch, Hrovat
Trade if he wants to go- Jong

I am happy enough to just delist 3. Our 4th round pick would be in the 65-70 zone, pretty likely the same player would be available in the rookie draft.

Very harsh to be delisting an 18YO development ruckman after 1 year on the list.

[Dry Rot]

Recently we have been good at re-signing the players we want to keep.

However, a number remain un-signed.

What's happening with Smith, Jong, Stevens, Campbell and the Rat?

Pies allegedly after Jong.

FWIW I've read rumours that the Bombers are chasing Campbell and Smith.

And I've read rumours that WCE is keen and offering Stevens a contract a lot longer than us.

If true, could we try to get a WCE tall defender (other than Brown)? They have enough of them.

[GVGjr]

Very harsh to be delisting an 18YO development ruckman after 1 year on the list.

In theory it does sound harsh but I tend to think it's a realistic option.

[azabob]

DR, so Stevens back to Perth? I find that odd.

[bornadog]

DR, so Stevens back to Perth? I find that odd.

Rumoured he has been made an offer.

[LostDoggy]

In theory it does sound harsh but I tend to think it's a realistic option.

As an interstater, I am out of the loop on the development players. I am a little surprised at the strength of opinion on Goetz, given he was clearly years away from it when drafted. Are there concerns/issues with his development or application?

[bornadog]

As an interstater, I am out of the loop on the development players. I am a little surprised at the strength of opinion on Goetz, given he was clearly years away from it when drafted. Are there concerns/issues with his development or application?

Application needs to be improved.

[LostDoggy]

Application needs to be improved.

Oh, I see.

[Mantis]

Application needs to be improved.

To be fair he is coming from a long way back and coming into a professional environment would be a shock to the system.. Having been injured for the last 10-12 weeks wouldn't have helped either.

The raw athletic talent is obviously there so if his attitude has improved I would like him to get a bit more time.

[Bulldog4life]

Recently we have been good at re-signing the players we want to keep.

However, a number remain un-signed.

What's happening with Smith, Jong, Stevens, Campbell and the Rat?

Pies allegedly after Jong.

FWIW I've read rumours that the Bombers are chasing Campbell and Smith.

And I've read rumours that WCE is keen and offering Stevens a contract a lot longer than us.

If true, could we try to get a WCE tall defender (other than Brown)? They have enough of them.

Are all your rumours from BF Dry Rot?

[Bulldog4life]

Here is a list of our uncontracted players at the end of the season according to Footywire:


Western Bulldogs Players Out of Contract in 2016
Name Years Service Status
Bradley Lynch 1 Non-Free Agent
Clay Smith 5 Non-Free Agent
Dale Morris 12 Unrestricted Free Agent
Declan Hamilton 2 Non-Free Agent
Joel Hamling 2 Non-Free Agent
Joshua Prudden 4 Non-Free Agent
Koby Stevens 4 Non-Free Agent
Lin Jong 5 Non-Free Agent
Luke Goetz 1 Non-Free Agent
Matthew Boyd 14 Unrestricted Free Agent
Nathan Hrovat 4 Non-Free Agent
Roarke Smith 2 Non-Free Agent
Robert Murphy 17 Unrestricted Free Agent
Tom Campbell 5 Non-Free Agent
Will Minson 13 Unrestricted Free Agent

[Ozza]

I'd be really disappointed to lose Prudden entirely.

For me, if we had to delist him - then he is a 'must rookie'.

[Mofra]

Very harsh to be delisting an 18YO development ruckman after 1 year on the list.
Players have to deserve another year, not be given one just because they're already on the list.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd be really disappointed to lose Prudden entirely.

For me, if we had to delist him - then he is a 'must rookie'.

Any reason why?

Prudden hasn't shown much outside of a couple VFL games and maybe some small glimpses last year at AFL level. I don't necessarily mind if we give him a year on the rookie list, but I don't think it'd be harsh if he was cut entirely either.

[bornadog]

Here is a list of our uncontracted players at the end of the season according to Footywire:


Western Bulldogs Players Out of Contract in 2016
Name Years Service Status
Bradley Lynch 1 Non-Free Agent
Clay Smith 5 Non-Free Agent
Dale Morris 12 Unrestricted Free Agent
Declan Hamilton 2 Non-Free Agent
Joel Hamling 2 Non-Free Agent
Joshua Prudden 4 Non-Free Agent
Koby Stevens 4 Non-Free Agent
Lin Jong 5 Non-Free Agent
Luke Goetz 1 Non-Free Agent
Matthew Boyd 14 Unrestricted Free Agent
Nathan Hrovat 4 Non-Free Agent
Roarke Smith 2 Non-Free Agent
Robert Murphy 17 Unrestricted Free Agent
Tom Campbell 5 Non-Free Agent
Will Minson 13 Unrestricted Free Agent

A lot of players on that list

[Ozza]

Any reason why?

Prudden hasn't shown much outside of a couple VFL games and maybe some small glimpses last year at AFL level. I don't necessarily mind if we give him a year on the rookie list, but I don't think it'd be harsh if he was cut entirely either.

I think that apart from a nervous first quarter in his first game (understandable) Prudden looked composed and comfortable at the level. In particular, in his third game v Collingwood - Beveridge acknowledged that they didn't really want to sub him out, because he was playing really well, but ended up subbing him for balance reasons. But up until then, in 56% game time, he'd picked up 17 possessions, and was reading the game really well and mopping up across half back, as well as being involved in some good passages of play for us.

I just think it would be a real shame if someone with Prudden's aptitude for the game, was lost to AFL footy, and I'm still backing him to make it (somewhere).

[G-Mo77]

A lot of players on that list

Looks like it but break it down it's not that bad. Boyd, Murphy and Morris won't go elsewhere and will be with us if they go on again. Lynch, R. Smith and Goetz are all rookies with the options of being re-rookied.

So it leaves you with this.

Clay Smith 5 Non-Free Agent
Declan Hamilton 2 Non-Free Agent
Joel Hamling 2 Non-Free Agent
Joshua Prudden 4 Non-Free Agent
Koby Stevens 4 Non-Free Agent
Lin Jong 5 Non-Free Agent
Nathan Hrovat 4 Non-Free Agent
Tom Campbell 5 Non-Free Agent
Will Minson 13 Unrestricted Free Agent

Out of that list I'd be wanting Campbell and Smith signed up ASAP so genuine concern there. Jong, Stevens I'd like to keep on but I'm not desperate to hold onto them. I'd love a healthy year from Hrovat but again not desperate. Sadly Minson will be leaving and the rest are probably delist material.

I think we've done well locking in our players but right now I'd really love to see some news on Clay and Tommy signing on.

Edit: Question? Jed Adcock? 2 year rookie?

[Dry Rot]

Are all your rumours from BF Dry Rot?

Yes, from reasonable posters there, not the crazy ones.

[The Pie Man]

I thought Murphy had already signed on?

[Cyberdoggie]

Any reason why?

Prudden hasn't shown much outside of a couple VFL games and maybe some small glimpses last year at AFL level. I don't necessarily mind if we give him a year on the rookie list, but I don't think it'd be harsh if he was cut entirely either.

He's hard to judge because he has had so little time in the spotlight and actually playing football.
Bevo seems to be a big rap for him, always mentioning him in interviews as a player that is missing injured from the side.
I would certainly rookie him. Deserves another go at it I think, and in my opinion he could be a decent backup to our HBF'ers that seem to keep getting injured.

[FrediKanoute]

No, Adcock is done. I would favour rookieing Prudden over Adcock.

[bornadog]

As an interstater, I am out of the loop on the development players. I am a little surprised at the strength of opinion on Goetz, given he was clearly years away from it when drafted. Are there concerns/issues with his development or application?


Application needs to be improved.


To be fair he is coming from a long way back and coming into a professional environment would be a shock to the system.. Having been injured for the last 10-12 weeks wouldn't have helped either.

The raw athletic talent is obviously there so if his attitude has improved I would like him to get a bit more time.

Goetz has been officially delisted

story here (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-07-20/dogs-release-rookie-goetz)

[Mofra]

Goetz has been officially delisted

story here (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/western-bulldogs-sack-rookie-luke-goetz/news-story/ea7075710d91308efd16dcbb1bda99cb)
As flagged by multiple woofers. No surprise, sad though.

[comrade]

Waiting for the Barrett article...

BOYD CONTRACT CLAIMS FIRST VICTIM

Young key position player, Luke Goetz, competing for a position with the Bulldog's mega money man, Tom Boyd, has cited his dissatisfaction with the former GWS player's massive contract as the motive behind his constant inability to turn up on time.

[hujsh]

Goetz has been officially delisted

story here (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/western-bulldogs-sack-rookie-luke-goetz/news-story/ea7075710d91308efd16dcbb1bda99cb)

Behind a paywall.

[G-Mo77]

Behind a paywall.

Go to the Bulldog website then.

Goetz Released (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-07-20/dogs-release-rookie-goetz)

[Ghost Dog]

'Sacked' is a bit rich. Mutually agreed to part ways is not sacked.

[jeemak]

'Sacked' is a bit rich. Mutually agreed to part ways is not sacked.

Parting ways by mutual agreement is a nice way of sacking somebody without actually sacking them.

[ledge]

He was on borrowed time from information I got .. Attitude .. Sadly I was hoping he made it as I played sport with his dad .. A really nice bloke

[bornadog]

As an interstater, I am out of the loop on the development players. I am a little surprised at the strength of opinion on Goetz, given he was clearly years away from it when drafted. Are there concerns/issues with his development or application?


Application needs to be improved.


To be fair he is coming from a long way back and coming into a professional environment would be a shock to the system.. Having been injured for the last 10-12 weeks wouldn't have helped either.

The raw athletic talent is obviously there so if his attitude has improved I would like him to get a bit more time.


Behind a paywall.

fixed

[Twodogs]

He was on borrowed time from information I got .. Attitude .. Sadly I was hoping he made it as I played sport with his dad .. A really nice bloke


Any connection to the Goetz family that has a factory in Newport/Willy do you know? My dad used to work there and he reckons Luke looks like the bloke he worked for

[KT31]

Any connection to the Goetz family that has a factory in Newport/Willy do you know? My dad used to work there and he reckons Luke looks like the bloke he worked for

Mate of mine positive he was the Great Grandson of the Factory Goetz and son of one of the twins he and I went to school with in Willy, but I can't be positive as I just took his word.

[bulldogtragic]

An early start, but one spot has opened up. Do we look to rookie draft another project ruckman?

[KT31]

An early start, but one spot has opened up. Do we look to rookie draft another project ruckman?

Depends on the draft, if we pick up a ruck free agency or in the draft and with Roughie, Campbell, Boyd and a big if Wilbur sticks around for back up then we should have enough, we may also be looking to re-rookie one of our delistings.

[bornadog]

An early start, but one spot has opened up. Do we look to rookie draft another project ruckman?

I would be looking for a Marcus Adams type, ie around 21, 22 years old that we can develop. Someone that missed being drafted as an 18 year old for whatever reason, but has the talent and passion to make it at the highest level.

[bulldogtragic]

Depends on the draft, if we pick up a ruck free agency or in the draft and with Roughie, Campbell, Boyd and a big if Wilbur sticks around for back up then we should have enough, we may also be looking to re-rookie one of our delistings.

My concern about taking a delisted player in the rookie draft is that it hasn't done anything for us yet as a strategy. Mitch Hahn, Brett Goodes & Daniel Pearce would be cut after showing bugger all whilst on the rookie list. The lesson I take from that is if the club thinks they don't deserve a senior spot, they don't deserve a rookie spot - even more so when we've found Matt Boyd, Dale Morris, Dahl, JJ, Picken, Campbell, Redpath & Roarke Smith (played Senior's) on the senior list as it stands today.

[KT31]

My concern about taking a delisted player in the rookie draft is that it hasn't done anything for us yet as a strategy. Mitch Hahn, Brett Goodes & Daniel Pearce would be cut after showing bugger all whilst on the rookie list. The lesson I take from that is if the club thinks they don't deserve a senior spot, they don't deserve a rookie spot - even more so when we've found Matt Boyd, Dale Morris, Dahl, JJ, Picken, Campbell, Redpath & Roarke Smith (played Senior's) on the senior list as it stands today.

Agree but I I still think Pruden may be a chance to be rookied if delisted and available at our pick.

[GVGjr]

An early start, but one spot has opened up. Do we look to rookie draft another project ruckman?

Has a decision been made on the rookie list staying for next year? It might be a factor if you draft a project player or look at adding someone with a bit more senior experience from a state league as BAD suggested.

We are entering our window now and we all know that developing young ruckman takes a lot of time. Tom Campbell for example as been on our list for a fair while and I still think he has plenty of improvement in front of him.

Assuming we have just Campbell, Roughead and Tom Boyd for next season I'd suggest we need to trade for a player with some senior experience so I don't think a project ruckman is what we really need.

[comrade]

An early start, but one spot has opened up. Do we look to rookie draft another project ruckman?

Yes, I would if there was someone decent, but rucks move all the time so they're always available in a pinch.

Adcock will also get moved on, you'd imagine. I'd use his spot on a skinny live wire forward pocket that needs a few years to simmer away ala Charlie Cameron or Tom Papley.

Elevate Roarke and keep Lynch on the rookie list for one more year.

Gives us 3 live rookie picks to take a shot with. 1 ruck (if decent), 1 forward, 1 best available.

[bulldogtragic]

Has a decision been made on the rookie list staying for next year? It might be a factor if you draft a project player or look at adding someone with a bit more senior experience from a state league as BAD suggested.

We are entering our window now and we all know that developing young ruckman takes a lot of time. Tom Campbell for example as been on our list for a fair while and I still think he has plenty of improvement in front of him.

Assuming we have just Campbell, Roughead and Tom Boyd for next season I'd suggest we need to trade for a player with some senior experience so I don't think a project ruckman is what we really need.

Daw, Vardy, Witts etc?

[GVGjr]

Daw, Vardy, Witts etc?

Sort of. Daw shouldn't move from North to be the 3rd wheel at another club. I'd guess Witts might be happy with any role. Vardy is certainly the type of player who could fit in straight away assuming he passed fitness tests with our medical team. Could he fill a first ruck spot? I'd probably doubt that but he should be able to handle a job as a tall forward rotating in the ruck.
If we were to recruit Vardy it would have to limit playing both Campbell and Roughead playing as ruckman and I wonder what it would mean for Redpath?

The long shot would be to go hard at getting Jackson Trengove who could hold down a key defensive role and provide a better ruck option than Daw, Vardy and Witts.

We will need some additional coverage but it might not be easy to identify an ideal fit.

[bulldogtragic]

Sort of. Daw shouldn't move from North to be the 3rd wheel at another club. I'd guess Witts might be happy with any role. Vardy is certainly the type of player who could fit in straight away assuming he passed fitness tests with our medical team. Could he fill a first ruck spot? I'd probably doubt that but he should be able to handle a job as a tall forward rotating in the ruck.
If we were to recruit Vardy it would have to limit playing both Campbell and Roughead playing as ruckman and I wonder what it would mean for Redpath?

The long shot would be to go hard at getting Jackson Trengove who could hold down a key defensive role and provide a better ruck option than Daw, Vardy and Witts.

We will need some additional coverage but it might not be easy to identify an ideal fit.

I don't watch that much Port. I know we were lucky to not invest pick 12 last year with a port ruckman. What's Trengove's market value?

[bornadog]

I don't watch that much Port. I know we were lucky to not invest pick 12 last year with a port ruckman. What's Trengove's market value?

Here (http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/afl/teams/port-adelaide/how-makeshift-ruckman-jackson-trengove-has-helped-save-port-adelaides-season/news-story/f3c78561fc67bc765739887400947a7f)is a story on him and why he is playing ruck at the moment.

[Twodogs]

Mate of mine positive he was the Great Grandson of the Factory Goetz and son of one of the twins he and I went to school with in Willy, but I can't be positive as I just took his word.

The old man might be right then.

[Bulldog4life]

Mate of mine positive he was the Great Grandson of the Factory Goetz and son of one of the twins he and I went to school with in Willy, but I can't be positive as I just took his word.

I went to Willy High and there was a kid name Goetz there. Not a twin if I remember. Always in trouble too

[Rocco Jones]

If we get Hurley, I think Hamling should be delisted/rookied.

With the Beveridge style, we only play 3 tall defenders if they really warrant spot. We will have...

First choice- Hurley, Adams, Morris/Wood combo

Replace Morris/back ups- Collins, Z Cordy, Roberts.

[Mofra]

My concern about taking a delisted player in the rookie draft is that it hasn't done anything for us yet as a strategy. Mitch Hahn, Brett Goodes & Daniel Pearce would be cut after showing bugger all whilst on the rookie list. The lesson I take from that is if the club thinks they don't deserve a senior spot, they don't deserve a rookie spot - even more so when we've found Matt Boyd, Dale Morris, Dahl, JJ, Picken, Campbell, Redpath & Roarke Smith (played Senior's) on the senior list as it stands today.
The bolded guys had spent a couple of years developing well at VFL level - that's where I'd be looking.
We missed Podsiadly who would have been handy for us, ditto Ben Hudson (having to trade for him later from Adelaide).
Our list is at the point now where adding an experienced guy for cover isn't going to hurt us as we have so many kids developing.

[bulldogtragic]

If we get Hurley, I think Hamling should be delisted/rookied.

With the Beveridge style, we only play 3 tall defenders if they really warrant spot. We will have...

First choice- Hurley, Adams, Morris/Wood combo

Replace Morris/back ups- Collins, Z Cordy, Roberts.

Hadn't thought about that, but it's a great point. Hamling would be last of those 8 players, so he get cut then. I'm not sure about the rookie list spot as I posted above, I think it clogs that list. Although if the rookie list is abolished that could change a few things up.

[Mofra]

First choice- Hurley, Adams, Morris/Wood combo
At 186cm Wood must be the shortest tall defender in the modern era.

[Rocco Jones]

At 186cm Wood must be the shortest tall defender in the modern era.

Yeah, I think it's about who is around him. You can't have him as #1 tall defender but if we have one bigger body and another guy who can negate a tall, it's fine.

I find fans are obsessed with height. Worst case scenario for a shorter defender is a one on one. I would still back Easton over Hamling or Roberts easily. The thing is, he is better with freedom to be intercept marker though. Such a gun!

[Mofra]

Yeah, I think it's about who is around him. You can't have him as #1 tall defender but if we have one bigger body and another guy who can negate a tall, it's fine.

I find fans are obsessed with height. Worst case scenario for a shorter defender is a one on one. I would still back Easton over Hamling or Roberts easily. The thing is, he is better with freedom to be intercept marker though. Such a gun!
I think it goes the other way too - worried about being too "top heavy" if our defenders demanding game time are tall.

Morris could play short and Adams & Zaine Cordy aren't slow and can use the ball well so there are times where we can go taller in the backline and still play well.

I wouldn't mind an Aaron Francis type on the list though - a genuine Moz sized rebounder who can go third man up. Just seems that type would fit our gameplan beautifully.

[ledge]

His dad is rollo

[Rocco Jones]

I think it goes the other way too - worried about being too "top heavy" if our defenders demanding game time are tall.

Morris could play short and Adams & Zaine Cordy aren't slow and can use the ball well so there are times where we can go taller in the backline and still play well.

I wouldn't mind an Aaron Francis type on the list though - a genuine Moz sized rebounder who can go third man up. Just seems that type would fit our gameplan beautifully.

Yeah I am constantly about not placing too much value on height alone.

I think you need to play at least one guy who can go with the bigger bodied forwards, Fletcher Roberts is getting a game on that basis now that Adams is out. Other than that, I think you go with your best overall defensive unit. Really important to play mobile, smart players to fit into our team defence structure. Adams, Woods, Morris and Z Cordy all seem a good fit for the way we structure down back. Collins and Roberts really fighting for the same spot to replace an injury at the moment until they can either add mobility or force way in on own right through form.

[Mantis]

Yeah I am constantly about not placing too much value on height alone.

I think you need to play at least one guy who can go with the bigger bodied forwards, Fletcher Roberts is getting a game on that basis now that Adams is out. Other than that, I think you go with your best overall defensive unit. Really important to play mobile, smart players to fit into our team defence structure. Adams, Woods, Morris and Z Cordy all seem a good fit for the way we structure down back. Collins and Roberts really fighting for the same spot to replace an injury at the moment until they can either add mobility or force way in on own right through form.

Is Adams actually proven as someone who can go with the 'big guys'?

I wouldn't have thought so.

[Rocco Jones]

Is Adams actually proven as someone who can go with the 'big guys'?

I wouldn't have thought so.

Roberts nor Adams are proven to go with the big guys. More saying they are our best hope at doing so.

[EasternWest]

I think we look at trading Stevens and Hunter. Both players have good currency. In Stevens case we've got a heap of inside mids, and in Hunter's case I'm just over his disposal.

We need good ball users.

[bulldogtragic]

I think we look at trading Stevens and Hunter. Both players have good currency. In Stevens case we've got a heap of inside mids, and in Hunter's case I'm just over his disposal.

We need good ball users.

Agreed, Hunter just signed for three years so he won't be going anywhere I'd bet. Stevens I'd trade right now for the right price. We need Hurley about 3 hours ago, so if that's what it takes...

[GVGjr]

Agreed, Hunter just signed for three years so he won't be going anywhere I'd bet. Stevens I'd trade right now for the right price. We need Hurley about 3 hours ago, so if that's what it takes...

What is the right price you have on Stevens?

[bulldogtragic]

What is the right price you have on Stevens?

The trade the club deems a win. We've been stockpiling players with a view to trading for need when required. I'm sure a few clubs would be interested in him, and he's yet to ink a deal.

[lemmon]

Tonight said more about Jong than Stevens for me. Fumbly, poor decisions, panics - he's not what we need. A pick around 30 gets that deal done

[bulldogtragic]

Tonight said more about Jong than Stevens for me. Fumbly, poor decisions, panics - he's not what we need. A pick around 30 gets that deal done

Stevens was mentioned s having real currency. GCS have picks in the mid-low 20's which will get pushed back with free agency compo, academy and father-sons. GCS wanted him last year, they can have him this year for said pick.

[bulldogtragic]

Tonight said more about Jong than Stevens for me. Fumbly, poor decisions, panics - he's not what we need. A pick around 30 gets that deal done

Stevens was mentioned s having real currency. GCS have picks in the mid-low 20's which will get pushed back with free agency compo, academy and father-sons. GCS wanted him last year, they can have him this year for said pick.

[GVGjr]

The trade the club deems a win. We've been stockpiling players with a view to trading for need when required. I'm sure a few clubs would be interested in him, and he's yet to ink a deal.

It's hard to put a value on that which allows for a good discussion.
I'd prefer to hear about something tangible than a concept that the club will get a good enough deal to justify it.

While I'd prefer him to stay but if he was to leave I'd want an early 2nd round pick in exchange for his services. I'd then try and trade for a midfielder with a penetrating kick with some of the currency we will have.

We lack some experience and losing Stevens if he was to leave would expose that a bit more.

[jeemak]

You can get a good player at 30. You can also get duds.

I'd be happy with a pick around 20 for Stevens.

[bulldogtragic]

It's hard to put a value on that which allows for a good discussion.
I'd prefer to hear about something tangible than a concept that the club will get a good enough deal to justify it.

While I'd prefer him to stay but if he was to leave I'd want an early 2nd round pick in exchange for his services. I'd then try and trade for a midfielder with a penetrating kick with some of the currency we will have.

We lack some experience and losing Stevens if he was to leave would expose that a bit more.

20-25 would be ideal. Or perhaps used in a multi club trade that nets us a player that can add a new skill set to the team.

[lemmon]

Stevens was mentioned s having real currency. GCS have picks in the mid-low 20's which will get pushed back with free agency compo, academy and father-sons. GCS wanted him last year, they can have him this year for said pick.

I'd want something in the high teens for Stevens, we saw last week what he is at his best and he takes on more responsibility now without Wally

[GVGjr]

20-25 would be ideal. Or perhaps used in a multi club trade that nets us a player that can add a new skill set to the team.


Can I ask why you want him specifically to be traded?