The Moving Rolling De-Listing/Trading Thread 2016

[azabob]

Bottom line is we got Hamling for SFA, he gave us 23 games in 2 years, including a stellar final series that significantly contributed to a Premiership. He now leaves as an enigma, giving us pick 35 on the way out.

Joel Hamling owes us nothing. He'll be a fascinating footnote in years to come - all the best to him.

Plus he is 24 and been in the system for at least four years. Not a great return on average games played per season.

Would have preferred to have kept him to see how much more development he had left in him.

Bring on pick 35!

[azabob]

Only to answer the question of who won the trade. According to this, pick 35 is overs

Wonder how they judge the player value? Age and games played?

[comrade]

I've come to terms with it. Pick 35 is a good result, especially if we can convince Adams to stick with us.

I'm sure Dalrymple has someone lined up at pick 35 that will become a jet.

[GVGjr]

Do points really have any relevance if we're not bidding with them.

It might if you have another club or two to deal with that need the points.

[hujsh]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvBcLOZUAAAXYBT.jpg

From twitter

According that Hamling is worth a pick somewhere around 50 or so? Doesn't seem to value him very highly and certainly not as high as we would here generally.

[Scraggers]

I've come to terms with it. Pick 35 is a good result, especially if we can convince Adams to stick with us.

I'm sure Dalrymple has someone lined up at pick 35 that will become a jet.

Last year he used pick 35 to secure Adams !!

[Mofra]

Over the last 10 years, picks 35 & 36:

Picks 35:
2015 - Marcus Adams
2014 - Harrison Wigg
2013 - Toby Nankevis
2012 - Tom Temay
2011 - Daniel Markworth
2010 - Ben Newton
2009 - David Astbury
2008 - Jamie Bennell
2007 - Sam Reid (Bulldog version)
2006 - Mark Austin

Picks 36:
2015 - Tom Cole
2014 - Ed Vickers-Willis
2013 - Jarred Janson
2012 - Tanner Smith
2011 - Rory Taggert
2010 - Aaron Young
2009 - Joel Houghton
2008 - Ashley Smith
2007 - Steven Browne
2006 - Alwyn Davey

[GVGjr]

I think that after the exchange of picks between the 2 clubs it values Hamling as pick 37.

We have 1035 points coming in and Fremantle have recovered 541 points. The points difference between both clubs is 494 and pick 37 is valued at 483.

[soupman]

While the trade is what I expected, it's another excellent example of how completely overvalued draft picks are.

Hamling for 35 in reality is a shit deal. We had a player who has a pretty good set of attributes, a proven ability to use them at AFL level, nearly 50 games which is where they tend to take the next step and is an important and a required part of our backline depth for which there are no reasonable replacements on the market for. Now we have a 50-50 shot at best (even Dalrymple, who is on fire, is batting at about 60-40 strike rate over the last 5 years) on an unproven player who may not even be assessable for multiple years.

It's a reasonable draft pick, but then again it isn't. Pick 35 means we are picking the 35th best prospect in this draft, and when you consider drafts rarely produce more than maybe 15-20 decent AFL players (I'm talking 50+ games) then that means over half the players picked before our bloke and just about everyone after need to be failures for pick 35 to be, statistically speaking.

And yeah it's an ok return for a DFA a few years ago, but then again we took a punt on a disposable player, invested two years in him and have turned him into a pretty decent player who should be in the system for another 5 years and crack 100 games, and our reward is a shitty pick (and a Premiership, but that doesn't really suit my argument).

Not whingeing about this deal specifically, more so the completely weird valuations of speculative draft choices.

[G-Mo77]

Only to answer the question of who won the trade. According to this, pick 35 is overs

Disagree with it entirely. Who on earth makes the random number up that sits besides Hamling? I'm disappointed but it's probably the best and only decent result we could have got but on face value, in no way shape or form did we win that trade.

[Bulldog4life]

The team that did miss out was Geelong who drafted Hamling in the 2011 National Draft for pick 32. Not us.

[GVGjr]

Well said Souperman. It's an unfair system that means some clubs never get the return for the time and money they invest in player development. It's too heavily weighted towards making it easy on players to get to the club that they want to and erodes the benefits that the National draft should offer the competition in evening things out for all the teams.

We lose out with Hamlings departure which hurts especially given we gave him a great home when Geelong wanted to move him onto the rookie list.

[Cyberdoggie]

Over the last 10 years, picks 35 & 36:

Picks 35:
2015 - Marcus Adams
2014 - Harrison Wigg
2013 - Toby Nankevis
2012 - Tom Temay
2011 - Daniel Markworth
2010 - Ben Newton
2009 - David Astbury
2008 - Jamie Bennell
2007 - Sam Reid (Bulldog version)
2006 - Mark Austin

Picks 36:
2015 - Tom Cole
2014 - Ed Vickers-Willis
2013 - Jarred Janson
2012 - Tanner Smith
2011 - Rory Taggert
2010 - Aaron Young
2009 - Joel Houghton
2008 - Ashley Smith
2007 - Steven Browne
2006 - Alwyn Davey

Not too many guns in that lot.

[Mantis]

Not too many guns in that lot.

How many of those did Simon Dalrymple (& team) select?

[Eastdog]

Not too many guns in that lot.

Marcus Adams still needs more time but hopefully if he stays on with us he can buck that trend.

[comrade]

Not too many guns in that lot.

It's a bit of a false impression though as it doesn't take into account all the players available that were taken after 35 that turned into good AFL players. I'm sure there is more than a few.

[Scraggers]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvB12MJUkAAE2X0.jpg

Looking at this list, we are desperate for big defenders and ruck stock aren't we?

[G-Mo77]

Certainly are, although Cordy won't be forward next year but not sure if you'd class him as a KPD either. I think Roughy may have to do some time down back if we can't sure up something in the next couple of days.

[bulldogtragic]

Cordy & Morris can play key roles down back, not on your gorilla types. I'd agree we need another ruck though. I'd be happy to look at a McStay or Richards type developing KPP for balance, possibly more so as forwards.

[bornadog]

Boyd is now a Ruck.

Mclean small forward?

[azabob]

Whose list is it?

[bulldogtragic]

Adams is a key back too.

[SlimPickens]

Do we try to use our current picks to give the Pies a father son bidding chop out and move further up into the second round?

[Twodogs]

Good luck to Hammer. He will always be a bulldog premiership player. We gave him a footy lifeline and he repayed us in spades over the last month of the season. Good to see him get the chance to secure his future.

[bulldogtragic]

Do we try to use our current picks to give the Pies a father son bidding chop out and move further up into the second round?

Apparently they need pick 28 for WHE. They won't trade anything of value it seems.

[Scraggers]

Whose list is it?

It was from Twitter ... not sure who compiled it. He has done every club's current list to highlight areas of need

[hujsh]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvB12MJUkAAE2X0.jpg

Looking at this list, we are desperate for big defenders and ruck stock aren't we?
Doesn't look like it was made by a Bulldogs fan. Adams and Cordy are missing from the key backs (Cordy obviously a stop gap up forward because Hamling wasn't playing the role very well) and we normally play Morris as one of the 'Key backs' in the zone so realistically we might only need one of the 4 listed in a given week.

[Eastdog]

Doesn't look like it was made by a Bulldogs fan. Adams and Cordy are missing from the key backs (Cordy obviously a stop gap up forward because Hamling wasn't playing the role very well) and we normally play Morris as one of the 'Key backs' in the zone so realistically we might only need one of the 4 listed in a given week.

Who will prevail in mainly getting the number 1 ruck position? As a few have suggested do we need another ruck.

The forward line looks very healthy and hopefully with Crameri coming back it will make it function even better. Hoping Jack gets back in there and where what will Cloke's role be if we secure him?

Our midfield is really good.

The defence obviously might need attention especially if Joel and Marcus depart. Those small/medium backs look good but eventually will have to I don't want to say replace guys like Morris, M Boyd and Bob down there. All 3 right now from what I've seen are set for another good year.

[hujsh]

Who will prevail in mainly getting the number 1 ruck position? As a few have suggested do we need another ruck.

It's Roughy's to lose. Ideally we keep the balance we had at the start of this year with an experienced backup to replace Minson and a developing late pick/rookie




The defence obviously might need attention especially if Joel and Marcus depart. Those small/medium backs look good but eventually will have to I don't want to say replace guys like Morris, M Boyd and Bob down there. All 3 right now from what I've seen are set for another good year.

Maybe Marcus stays maybe he goes. It won't be this year so hopefully Cordy, Roberts and Collins are able to fill that role by then.

For the small defenders a core of Wood, Biggs, JJ and Sucking with Williams, R.Smith and Lynch hopefully ready for prime time would be a good group to choose from.

[bulldogtragic]

afl.com.au

Western Bulldogs midfielder Nathan Hrovat remains open to a move to North Melbourne or Carlton, but the Roos looked better placed to clinch a deal with the Dogs before the end of the trade period.

....

Pick 33? (Wells compo)

[bulldogtragic]

Do we try to use our current picks to give the Pies a father son bidding chop out and move further up into the second round?

If they trade their future second rounder to get WHE, then we could.

28 - 677 points
35 & 43 & 61 - 1,038 points (swap future 3rd round pick next year)

18, 28, 33 (Rat?) & 50 (Stevens?) plus Cloke
Picks 33 & 50 is worth more 110 points than pick 26 from GCS.

18, 26 & 28 (improved 3rd rounder in 2017) plus Cloke (4 players in, 4 players out)

[GVGjr]

How many points do we think GCS need?

It makes it very interesting if they are after points.

[ledge]

Would we look at Hibberd , seems it's not getting done at the moment .. We have 35 . Would we use that to get him .. Apparently Essendon are asking a second round pick .

[Twodogs]

Would we look at Hibberd , seems it's not getting done at the moment .. We have 35 . Would we use that to get him .. Apparently Essendon are asking a second round pick .


Worth a try. Swap Hamling for Hibberd.

[Dogs 24/7]

I like the idea of Dear, at 20yrs old he's had a couple of years in the system, best football a few years away, would be a solid back up fits and fits into Bevo's philosophy of not being a one position player.

Another father son from another club fits nicely also.:)

This one appeals to me but his name isnt being mentioned is it ?

[bornadog]

Would we look at Hibberd , seems it's not getting done at the moment .. We have 35 . Would we use that to get him .. Apparently Essendon are asking a second round pick .

Hibberd will be done today, for pick 29

[GVGjr]

It's being speculated that Deledio could be off to the Giants. Richmond would need to pay some of his salary.
This would make a very good team even better and to me reinforces why you can't be too complacent with list management.

[GVGjr]

Hibberd will be done today, for pick 29

Dees had committed to him and couldn't really stand firm on it being a 2nd round pick next year.

[comrade]

It's being speculated that Deledio could be off to the Giants. Richmond would need to pay some of his salary.
This would make a very good team even better and to me reinforces why you can't be too complacent with list management.

It's much easier to top up with the plethora of picks they've accumulated. I agree though, they understand they've been handed the world and are pushing their advantage to the maximum.

[GVGjr]

It's much easier to top up with the plethora of picks they've accumulated. I agree though, they understand they've been handed the world and are pushing their advantage to the maximum.

The AFL consistently put in concepts to help clubs and yet some of these clubs them exploit them beyond the realms of what they were designed for. COLA was a good concept except clubs used the money to acquire top end talent rather than make it a bit easier on players who were on well below the average as it was designed for. Points for academy players seemed a good idea but once again got exploited. Free agency and contracted players have been ruined by childish players who pick and choose which clubs they want to go to or wanting to break contracts. Now we have a team wrecking the trade period and creating an unbalanced competition.

But yes, good on them.

[bornadog]

Dees had committed to him and couldn't really stand firm on it being a 2nd round pick next year.

Melbourne will be a strong team next year, with Lewis and Hibberd.

[GVGjr]

Melbourne will be a strong team next year, with Lewis and Hibberd. Given their developing list they must press hard for a top 8 spot in 2017. They have a great blend of mids a KP players.

[bornadog]

Given their developing list they must press hard for a top 8 spot in 2017. They have a great blend of mids a KP players.

If they don't make the 8 they have failed again with all the good players they have received over the years.

[dog town]

Melbourne should already be a strong team. Can't believe they have avoided scrutiny over their slow progress.

You would think if we were going to make a big play in this period we will hear about it in the next few hours.

[Bulldog Revolution]

If they don't make the 8 they have failed again with all the good players they have received over the years.

I agree - pathetic they didn't make it this year, and if they dont next year then its an utter disgrace

The reality is that they should be thinking top 4 and nothing less

[GVGjr]

Trade Radio are speculating that Essendon are poised for an announcement.

[comrade]

Tony Cochrane is a master negotiator. Absolutely love the stand he is taking against Hawthorn.

[GVGjr]

Tony Cochrane is a master negotiator. Absolutely love the stand he is taking against Hawthorn.

Everything he said was spot on. Good luck to him.

[craigsahibee]

Melbourne will be a strong team next year, with Lewis and Hibberd.

Don't rate Hibberd at all. Just another Stanton.

Even without these two they should've played Finals this year. Early season loss to the Bombers and late season loss to Carlton which ended their hopes. They have some depth in the mid-field fed by Gawn. They just need to improve their consistency which will come with experience. The gap between their worst and best is too extreme for them to be considered for the Top 4.

[bornadog]

Tony Cochrane is a master negotiator. Absolutely love the stand he is taking against Hawthorn.

I would love nothing more than the Hawks missing JOM after paying overs for pick 10.

[bulldogtragic]

I would love nothing more than the Hawks missing JOM after paying overs for pick 10.

Then other clubs should swoop in and see if they can grab him.

[Twodogs]

If they don't make the 8 they have failed again with all the good players they have received over the years.

Would it surprise anyone if they missed the eight. As the reigning premiers (Ta-da!) I feel we are in the ideal position (that top for anyone who missed it) to lecture other clubs about their shortcomings and the Dees just haven't got it.

Actually they seem to have put the right parts in place for once. The fundamentals of a very good team are there, they should have really done much better this year.


Melbourne should already be a strong team. Can't believe they have avoided scrutiny over their slow progress.

You would think if we were going to make a big play in this period we will hear about it in the next few hours.

Yep. They ought to have done much better this year.


I would love nothing more than the Hawks missing JOM after paying overs for pick 10.

And giving a couple of club legends the sarse.

[hujsh]

If JOM went to the draft like Luke Ball did I wonder where he'd end up? Big risk to take him in the top 3 but maybe he'd slip to the Suns at pick 8?

[bulldogtragic]

If JOM went to the draft like Luke Ball did I wonder where he'd end up? Big risk to take him in the top 3 but maybe he'd slip to the Suns at pick 8?

He can put a price/salary on his head, to scare clubs off. If he had an understanding with the Hawks, he might slip to 10. But I'd like to think that a lot of Vic clubs will start to get into his management and GCS.

[GVGjr]

If JOM went to the draft like Luke Ball did I wonder where he'd end up? Big risk to take him in the top 3 but maybe he'd slip to the Suns at pick 8?

I think the Sun would grab him at 8.

[1eyedog]

If JOM went to the draft like Luke Ball did I wonder where he'd end up? Big risk to take him in the top 3 but maybe he'd slip to the Suns at pick 8?

I dont think he can put himself in the draft he would need to be delisted which they won't do. I think they'll go to Essendon first. If he is not picked up by Hawthorn he can nominate for the preseason draft but not the national one.

[Twodogs]

This whole JOM thing is hilarious watching. The things clubs will do for a kid who hasn't played for two years.

[Topdog]

The AFL consistently put in concepts to help clubs and yet some of these clubs them exploit them beyond the realms of what they were designed for. COLA was a good concept except clubs used the money to acquire top end talent rather than make it a bit easier on players who were on well below the average as it was designed for. Points for academy players seemed a good idea but once again got exploited. Free agency and contracted players have been ruined by childish players who pick and choose which clubs they want to go to or wanting to break contracts. Now we have a team wrecking the trade period and creating an unbalanced competition.

But yes, good on them.

You are spot on.

COLA should still be in play, it just should be handled by the AFL.

[ledge]

Melbourne will be a lot better , Goodwin is a more attacking coach than Roos and with Roos gone he will have complete control, dont be mistaken they will be a lot different side under him.

[hujsh]

You are spot on.

COLA should still be in play, it just should be handled by the AFL.

But not Sydney exclusive (maybe players under 150K get their wages adjusted to local inflation/property prices)

[Topdog]

But not Sydney exclusive (maybe players under 150K get their wages adjusted to local inflation/property prices)

YES! WA are equally (if not more) impacted.

[Templeton31]

Hello.....

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/richmond-star-brett-deledio-has-travelled-to-sydney-to-meet-with-gws-giants-officials-over-potential-move/news-story/fc62d2442d1225aef9831bdbd250ee7a

[bulldogtragic]

Hello.....

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/richmond-star-brett-deledio-has-travelled-to-sydney-to-meet-with-gws-giants-officials-over-potential-move/news-story/fc62d2442d1225aef9831bdbd250ee7a

Lids mentioned throughout the year that teammates were hanging shit on him (not needing to care about rebuilding etc) because he was going to be a Bulldogs player next year...

[comrade]

Not overly fussed on Lids. Can someone convince me he's a must have?

[GVGjr]

Hello.....

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/richmond-star-brett-deledio-has-travelled-to-sydney-to-meet-with-gws-giants-officials-over-potential-move/news-story/fc62d2442d1225aef9831bdbd250ee7a

Interesting. Given what the AFL has done for Geelong it still puts them in the best place to get him.

[bulldogtragic]

Not overly fussed on Lids. Can someone convince me he's a must have?

His $800,000 reported salary is a concern. Geelong allowed to trade another first rounder, that'd get the job done for them you'd think.

[GVGjr]

His $800,000 reported salary is a concern. Geelong allowed to trade another first rounder, that'd get the job done for them you'd think.

Geelong are stretched further than most teams for salary cap space as is GWS which indicates that the Tigers are prepared to do something similar to what we did with Griffen and pay some of salary.

We probably don't need a lot of assistance in that area but that could also help us in negotiating a slightly lesser deal to satisfy Richmond.

[bulldogtragic]

Geelong are stretched further than most teams for salary cap space as is GWS which indicates that the Tigers are prepared to do something similar to what we did with Griffen and pay some of salary.

We probably don't need a lot of assistance in that area but that could also help us in negotiating a slightly lesser deal to satisfy Richmond.

What do you rate him pick wise?

[Remi Moses]

It's being reported from Emma Quayle that the cats are willing to give up a first for Tuohy.
Is that their first pick in 2020?:rolleyes:

[1eyedog]

Not overly fussed on Lids. Can someone convince me he's a must have?

No. He's good but not worth the coin he's commanding. Would rather develop Bailey Williams who has looked very promising. Other than this year Lid's has been durable but he's got 2-3 years left. Not sure I want to give away our first rounder for that. I'd offer Richmond the Hamling pick and they'd laugh at me and we can all move on.

Did I just read right? A first round selection for Tuohy?

[Axe Man]

Richmond's list manager has confirmed that GWS is the only club at this point expressing an interest in Deledio.

If we are interested we haven't told Richmond about it yet.

[GVGjr]

What do you rate him pick wise?

It's all speculative because of GWS and what the AFL have done for Geelong but I've just done some sums. I think he is worth a late first round pick and I doubt Richmond would let him go for much less.
Our first round pick (18) is worth 985 points which would have us relying on a deal for Hrovat to get us a pick in the 2nd round to go with pick 35. 3 picks inside of 43 isn't a great position if we lost pick 18.

Could we get a discount given we probably don't need assistance to absorb his contract?
If so, I did some sums on a flip flop of picks which improves our draft order a bit from the scenario above.

The Tigers also need a pick for Caddy which could complicate things.

Looks very unlikely.

[G-Mo77]

Emma Quayle ‏@emmasq

Dogs onballer Nathan Hrovat is off to the Roos, for a swap of picks. Blues also had interest. Will get lodged in the morning @agerealfooty

Upgrade from 43 to 32 or 33?

Again disappointing result if that's all the return is.

[comrade]

Emma Quayle ‏@emmasq

Dogs onballer Nathan Hrovat is off to the Roos, for a swap of picks. Blues also had interest. Will get lodged in the morning @agerealfooty

Upgrade from 43 to 32 or 33?

Again disappointing result if that's all the return is.


Yep, a pittance. Should have shipped him off last year when GWS were keen.

He'll carve out a solid career, but given North are mile away, it shouldn't come back to haunt us.

[G-Mo77]

Yep, a pittance. Should have shipped him off last year when GWS were keen.

He'll carve out a solid career, but given North are mile away, it shouldn't come back to haunt us.

It's yet to be confirmed, all signs point to it though. This is one deal we were not over a barrel on so I'm really disappointed if this is all it turns out to be. Fail.

And Kobe will go for virtually nothing I'm guessing.

[KT31]

Emma Quayle ‏@emmasq

Dogs onballer Nathan Hrovat is off to the Roos, for a swap of picks. Blues also had interest. Will get lodged in the morning @agerealfooty

Upgrade from 43 to 32 or 33?

Again disappointing result if that's all the return is.

If true we are getting torn a new one, would prefer he stays.

[LostDoggy]

Emma Quayle ‏@emmasq

Dogs onballer Nathan Hrovat is off to the Roos, for a swap of picks. Blues also had interest. Will get lodged in the morning @agerealfooty

Upgrade from 43 to 32 or 33?

Again disappointing result if that's all the return is.

Hopefully we get 32 or 33 and give them 75 or 76 (or both) - these picks are useless to us, we'll be passing on them, but may be used by Norf so would be a decent trade all round.

[G-Mo77]

Nick Bowen ‏@Nick_Bowen 7m7 minutes ago
A correction to Hrovat to North news. Understand North will exchange its 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks for Dogs' 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks

Even worse!

[KT31]

Nick Bowen ‏@Nick_Bowen 7m7 minutes ago
A correction to Hrovat to North news. Understand North will exchange its 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks for Dogs' 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks

Even worse!

So basically for nothing.

[G-Mo77]

So basically for nothing.

Yeah pretty much. Should have just swapped him first day for pick 100. Almost 2 weeks to broker a pathetic deal like that is absolutely pathetic!

[GVGjr]

Emma Quayle ‏@emmasq

Dogs onballer Nathan Hrovat is off to the Roos, for a swap of picks. Blues also had interest. Will get lodged in the morning @agerealfooty

Upgrade from 43 to 32 or 33?

Again disappointing result if that's all the return is.

It's probably our pick 43 and Hrovat for Norths pick 33. Ideally our pick 43 would remain and we could use pick 50 assuming we get that for Stevens.

Certainly unders. I would have tried to keep him

[G-Mo77]

Read above GVG. It's even worse than that.

[1eyedog]

Worst trade period ever!

[Mantis]

Nick Bowen ‏@Nick_Bowen 7m7 minutes ago
A correction to Hrovat to North news. Understand North will exchange its 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks for Dogs' 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks

Even worse!

If that's the case and shit hits the fan and Norf finish above us next year we are actually paying (sort of) them to take him.. Surely Hrovat has more currency than that?

[chef]

What a shit trade. What happened to the bidding war?

[GVGjr]

Nick Bowen ‏@Nick_Bowen 7m7 minutes ago
A correction to Hrovat to North news. Understand North will exchange its 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks for Dogs' 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks

Even worse!

I need to have a look at this further but I wonder what our logic is behind it? Why not just let him go to the draft?

[bulldogtragic]

I need to have a look at this further but I wonder what our logic is behind it? Why not just let him go to the draft?

Good question. That's as good as basicly nothing. We may not even use a fourth rounder next year.

[bulldogtragic]

If you said after the Premiership, Hamling will leave for 35, Stevens will leave for 50 & Hrovat will leave for a minor change next year. I'd say we got our arses handed to us on shithouse platter. Never mind 15+ decent young players will request a trade and none to the Dogs.

[Scraggers]

I need to have a look at this further but I wonder what our logic is behind it? Why not just let him go to the draft?


Good question. That's as good as basicly nothing. We may not even use a fourth rounder next year.

Suggested on twitter ... Are we banking points for Father/Son selections next year?

[bulldogtragic]

Suggested on twitter ... Are we banking points for Father/Son selections next year?

Who is up next year? Romero is this year. Rhylee west is 2018. Libba & Kellett 2019.

[G-Mo77]

I just hope there is more to it than what is being reported.

Might go watch the GF now. This has put me in a foul mood.

[Topdog]

That's an awful deal.

[kruder]

Norf will be bottom 4 next season make no mistake.

[Bulldog4life]

Nick Bowen ‏@Nick_Bowen 7m7 minutes ago
A correction to Hrovat to North news. Understand North will exchange its 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks for Dogs' 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks

Even worse!

I read that the swap of picks is for this year and next year. According to the Age.

[Eastdog]

Not the greatest trade period ever for us but hey we are on top at the moment and have many quality young players who will get better. It does still leave a bitter taste in my mouth losing Hamling and possibly Hrovat who while wasn't a regular as much I believed had a lot to offer. Was speaking to the guy at the coffee shop before my work this morning who is a Dogs fan as well and he said that while he understands the location purposes of the trade for Joel why would he want to leave a premiership winning team? I said though that being quiet in the trade period isn't a bad thing but then losing 2 quality players isn't exactly quiet as we haven't "gained".

[Eastdog]

I just hope there is more to it than what is being reported.

Might go watch the GF now. This has put me in a foul mood.

The 2016 GF is good treatment from all this.

[jeemak]

I think we're acknowledging we rate players coming through but aren't getting a game higher than Hrovat, and at the same time banking on there being a ten spot disparity between ourselves and Norf next year in our favour.

The chances - based on historical evidence - are Hrovat's future career will follow the same path it has with us. He's off-contract, prone to getting injured, struggled to put form together consistently and enamoured with attributes that are reasonably abundant within the broader AFL talent pool.

What would we have paid to get someone like him to our club? The AFL trade market is a pretty good indicator of player value, there's not many 'steals' these days - especially when it comes to smallish midfielders.

[bulldogtragic]

I read that the swap of picks is for this year and next year. According to the Age.

Quayle tweeted that first. Then Bowen tweeted after Quayle's saying the above correction.

[G-Mo77]

I read that the swap of picks is for this year and next year. According to the Age.

Yeah I hope Emma is right. :)

[Eastdog]

I think we're acknowledging we rate players coming through but aren't getting a game higher than Hrovat, and at the same time banking on there being a ten spot disparity between ourselves and Norf next year in our favour.

The chances - based on historical evidence - are Hrovat's future career will follow the same path it has with us. He's off-contract, prone to getting injured, struggled to put form together consistently and enamoured with attributes that are reasonably abundant within the broader AFL talent pool.

What would we have paid to get someone like him to our club? The AFL trade market is a pretty good indicator of player value, there's not many 'steals' these days.

Hrovat injury prone but when he was playing at senior level I thought some of his games were very good. Clay another one who has had many injury setbacks and now one of our most valuable going forward.

[KT31]

I'm feeling even more underwhelmed than yesterday, unless something happens tomorrow with our picks being upgraded I would say we have been on the back foot and handled this draft period quite poorly.
Fair enough me missed on Hurley but that was months ago and we would have have one or two contingency plans.
At this stage with the only in as Cloke and the losses of Hrovat, Stevens and Hamling our list looks worse off than this season.
Ultimately the Draft will decide and I'm not suggesting or waiting for the so called Big Deal, but think we need to upgrade our picks to continue to grow and get back on the front foot.

[Eastdog]

I'm feeling even more underwhelmed than yesterday, unless something happens tomorrow with our picks being upgraded I would say we have been on the back foot and handled this draft period quite poorly.
Fair enough me missed on Hurley but that was months ago and we would have have one or two contingency plans.
At this stage with the only in as Cloke and the losses of Hrovat, Stevens and Hamling, our list at this stage our list looks worse off than this season.
ultimately the Draft will decide and not waiting for The Big Deal, but think we need to upgrade our picks to continue to grow and get back on the front foot.

What do you reckon KT31 would be good upgrades in our picks from our current situation.

[KT31]

What do you reckon KT31 would be good upgrades in our picks from our current situation.

BT's the pick wizard Eastie, happy to go along with his suggestion.

[Eastdog]

Good though that we haven't heard anything further about Marcus Adans leaving. Would be quite important now.

[Eastdog]

BT's the pick wizard Eastie, happy to go along with his suggestion.

Yeah I find BT, The Doctor, anfo, PP, GVG quite good in this area. Hope I haven't missed anyone :)

[bulldogtragic]

BT's the pick wizard Eastie, happy to go along with his suggestion.

35, 43, 50 (Stevens) & 61 - for - 28, 47, Cloke (Collingwood net 330 points up - values Cloke at pick 48).

Draft: 18, 28 & 47

Out: Minson, Hrovat, Stevens & Hamling
In: Cloke, 18, 28 & 47 (swap of 2017 third & fourth rounders with North)

[Templeton31]

Herald Sun saying Deledio "chose" GWS over Dogs. Don't think thats a disaster - saves a fair bit of cap for targeted needs (e.g. Key Defender if needed). Not sure how GWS affords all these players given their cap is reducing massively this year.

[bulldogtragic]

Herald Sun saying Deledio "chose" GWS over Dogs. Don't think thats a disaster - saves a fair bit of cap for targeted needs (e.g. Key Defender if needed). Not sure how GWS affords all these players given their cap is reducing massively this year.

According to Richmond's list manager at 4pm today, GWS was the only club interested in Lids. Before 6pm he made the announcement. I can't imagine that's much of a window to 'choose' between offers. But when do the facts ever stop the Hun?

[The Underdog]

Nick Bowen ‏@Nick_Bowen 7m7 minutes ago
A correction to Hrovat to North news. Understand North will exchange its 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks for Dogs' 2017 3rd & 4th rd picks

Even worse!

Plus a handy under the table I hope. The only way to explain it.

[Templeton31]

Plus a handy under the table I hope. The only way to explain it.

That'll be great if Norf finish one spot below us! What happens if they finish above us? (I know seems unlikely but just saying...)

[KT31]

35, 43, 50 (Stevens) & 61 - for - 28, 47, Cloke (Collingwood net 330 points up - values Cloke at pick 48).

Draft: 18, 28 & 47

Out: Minson, Hrovat, Stevens & Hamling
In: Cloke, 18, 28 & 47 (swap of 2017 third & fourth rounders with North)

I knew you would come through BT.:)

[Eastdog]

That'll be great if Norf finish one spot below us! What happens if they finish above us? (I know seems unlikely but just saying...)

They are a lot more on the older side and are predicted to struggle in 2017. We are young with a few veterans with heaps of upside still.

[bulldogtragic]

35, 43, 50 (Stevens) & 61 - for - 28, 47, Cloke (Collingwood net 330 points up - values Cloke at pick 48).

Draft: 18, 28 & 47

Out: Minson, Hrovat, Stevens & Hamling
In: Cloke, 18, 28 & 47 (swap of 2017 third & fourth rounders with North)

Or swap 35 for 39 & 43 for 46 for Xavier Richards (if the whisper in the other thread is true).

Then 39, 50, 61 & 74 to Collingwood for 28 & Cloke (Collngwood over 210 points ahead, Valuing Cloke at 54)

Ins: Cloke, Richards, 18, 28 & 46 (2017 swap of third and fourth rounders with North)
Outs: Minson, Hamling, Stevens, Hrovat, 5th-Prudden

[josie]

We have some good young talent such as Bailey Dale, Bailey Williams and Roarke Smith and one of the best and deepest midfields. Sure it would have be nice to have traded Hrovat last year and Stevens this year for higher picks. Having watched Stevens butcher the ball in a few late season VFL games this year I can understand why his value went down or is not as high as some of us thought. Sorry to see Hrovat go however really understand if his body allows him he wants to play senior footy. Good luck to both of them. Perhaps we learn from this or perhaps we continue to be seen as reasonable to trade with (by other clubs and by current and prospective players) and that the karma bus will help us in future. I think the club would have plans for 2017 trade period and decided to keep their powder dry this year. Having just won the premiership and also needing to ensure we can pay our young stars in the future I am not as upset as others.

[GVGjr]

35, 43, 50 (Stevens) & 61 - for - 28, 47, Cloke (Collingwood net 330 points up - values Cloke at pick 48).

Draft: 18, 28 & 47

Out: Minson, Hrovat, Stevens & Hamling
In: Cloke, 18, 28 & 47 (swap of 2017 third & fourth rounders with North)

I calculate it slightly differently but come out with Cloke being valued at pick 47 in the scenario above.

35, 43, 50 and 61 = 1,308 points. 28 and 47 = 993 points. The difference is 315 points or pick 47 (316 DVI points)

Pies need to cough up something for Lynden Dunn and WHE also.
There is a lot more to play out here.

[bulldogtragic]

I calculate it slightly differently but come out with Cloke being valued at pick 47 in the scenario above.

35, 43, 50 and 61 = 1,308 points. 28 and 47 = 993 points. The difference is 315 points or pick 47 (316 DVI points)

Pies need to cough up something for Lynden Dunn and WHE also.
There is a lot more to play out here.

Talk of WHE being a 2017 second rounder. Dunn for virtually nothing to get him off the Melbourne books.

If we gave them the 315 point version or 230 point version (if we can trade down with Sydney fractionally if we want Richards), that's a pretty good outcome for Collingwood to be up those points and free of a large contract. They can have 74 & 75 if they want them too seeing they might have live selections passed then. Another top 30 pick would be a nice outcome for Dal.

[GVGjr]

So Deledio takes a pay cut to go to GWS. 1.5M over 3 years. We could have matched that easily. Does he not think we are good enough to go back to back?

[bulldogtragic]

So Deledio takes a pay cut to go to GWS. 1.5M over 3 years. We could have matched that easily. Does he not think we are good enough to go back to back?

He's taking a pay cut? On trade radio talk was Richmond would be paying a large chuck of his salary next year.

[GVGjr]

Talk of WHE being a 2017 second rounder. Dunn for virtually nothing to get him off the Melbourne books.

If we gave them the 315 point version or 230 point version (if we can trade down with Sydney fractionally if we want Richards), that's a pretty good outcome for Collingwood to be up those points and free of a large contract. They can have 74 & 75 if they want them too seeing they might have live selections passed then. Another top 30 pick would be a nice outcome for Dal.

I tend to think we might use 18, 35 and 50 on draft picks, pick 43 on Richards if that is in anyway true and pick 61 on Cloke.

I wonder why a trade for Stevens hasn't been completed? Have the Saints got some other activities they need to complete?

[The Doctor]

Or swap 35 for 39 & 43 for 46 for Xavier Richards (if the whisper in the other thread is true).



which thread?

[bulldogtragic]

So Deledio takes a pay cut to go to GWS. 1.5M over 3 years. We could have matched that easily. Does he not think we are good enough to go back to back?

Where we really in the hunt? Richmond's list manager said at 4pm today only GWS had shown any real interest. In under 2 hours he was going to GWS. If we wanted him, why were we waiting until late today when we could've been going hard all week?

[bulldogtragic]

which thread?

I'm losing track. Another poster suggested we were looking at Richards.

[GVGjr]

Where we really in the hunt. Richmon's list manager said at 4pm today on GWS had shown any real interest. In under 2 hours he was going to GWS. If we wanted him, why were we waiting until late today when we could've been going hard all week?

I guess we weren't that interested despite a couple of reports. It's a huge step by the player to head up there. I'd say he believes they are clearly the flag favourites for next season.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Where we really in the hunt? Richmond's list manager said at 4pm today only GWS had shown any real interest. In under 2 hours he was going to GWS. If we wanted him, why were we waiting until late today when we could've been going hard all week?

I think we were right in it, but I guess more will be revealed in time

Richmond might have preferred GWS bid as the pick is lower but if he'd picked us then we'd be making a deal

[bulldogtragic]

I think we were right in it, but I guess more will be revealed in time

Richmond might have preferred GWS bid as the pick is lower but if he'd picked us then we'd be making a deal

What confuses the *!*!*!*! out of me is Geelong, convinced him to nominate them. Then today on trade radio Geelong said they didn't have the players to trade and couldn't afford his wage??? Then why induce him into publicly want out, to your club???

[comrade]

What confuses the *!*!*!*! out of me is Geelong, convinced him to nominate them. Then today on trade radio Geelong said they didn't have the players to trade and couldn't afford his wage??? Then why induce him into publicly want out, to your club???

Really weird. Then they made Touhy the priority and by all reports are going to lose Caddy tomorrow.

Bizarre trade period from the Cats.

[bulldogtragic]

Really weird. Then they made Touhy the priority and by all reports are going to lose Caddy tomorrow.

Bizarre trade period from the Cats.

If Hawthorn don't get O'Meara, the trade period for them, Geelong & Collingwood are quite bizarre from big clubs who have armies to make sure they don't do stupid things...

[bulldogtragic]

afl.com.au 's Wednesday night wrap:

Former Collingwood forward Travis Cloke will finally make his way to the Western Bulldogs for a late pick, having had to wait for the past 10 days, while the Saints expect to secure former West Coast and Bulldogs midfielder Koby Stevens, also for a late pick.

Richmond remains hopeful of getting Josh Caddy in a trade for one of the club's second-round selections, which sit at No.24 and No.27.

The 26-year-old Geelong midfielder slipped behind Scott Selwood and Sam Menegola in the Cats' midfield this season to be on the fringe of selection late in the year, but has shown a capacity in his 95 games to play at a high level when at his best.

North is also to secure Western Bulldogs midfielder Hrovat on Thursday morning, having agreed to exchange their 2017 third and fourth-round picks for the Dogs' corresponding future picks.

The reigning premiers will be banking on finishing considerably higher up the ladder than North next year to maximise their return for 2012's No.21 draft pick.

Hrovat, 22, has played 30 games in four seasons at the Whitten Oval, including just four in a 2016 season plagued by shoulder and ankle injuries.

[azabob]

Can't recall if it was Quayle or Landsberger but one of them said we had lined up Delido for medical a week or so back but it was canceled as Beveridge wasn't sure. Apparently we put him through a medical late today, but it appears we left our run too late.

This tells me we were working on something, but it hasn't transpired. This also explains why Hrovat, Stevens and Cloke have all been delayed.

[bulldogtragic]

Can't recall if it was Quayle or Landsberger but one of them said we had lined up Delido for medical a week or so back but it was canceled as Beveridge wasn't sure. Apparently we put him through a medical late today, but it appears we left our run too late.

This tells me we were working on something, but it hasn't transpired. This also explains why Hrovat, Stevens and Cloke have all been delayed.

Unless we pull a rabbit out of the hat, I dare say this trade period is a C or D (in school grading terms). Cloke cheap is good, but the rest is not great at all.

[comrade]

Unless we pull a rabbit out of the hat, I dare say this trade period is a C or D (in school grading terms). Cloke cheap is good, but the rest is not great at all.

We were never going to get anything significant from Hrovat and Stevens. We essentially don't own them any more, and with player power as it is, when players can just kill any potential bidding wars by nominating clubs, we're reduced to getting crumbs.

Would like to see JMac involve himself in some more complex deals. There are desperate clubs out there looking to do deals - Hawks and Geelong are two. Saints took advantage of the Hawks. I'd like us to manufacture similar deals but not sure if it's JMac's strength.

[bulldogtragic]

Talk O'Meara deal won't get done tomorrow. GCS hoping better offers from other clubs come along, standing firm Hawthorn's offer is crap.

[bulldogtragic]

We were never going to get anything significant from Hrovat and Stevens. We essentially don't own them any more, and with player power as it is, when players can just kill any potential bidding wars by nominating clubs, we're reduced to getting crumbs.

Would like to see JMac involve himself in some more complex deals. There are desperate clubs out there looking to do deals - Hawks and Geelong are two. Saints took advantage of the Hawks. I'd like us to manufacture similar deals but not sure if it's JMac's strength.

Well, he can ring GCS in the morning and see exactly what they want for O'Meara. Or do a Veale Deal and force him into the national draft and trade with us right up the order to pick 4 which we agree to use on him. What would they want for 4? That's a complex deal.

[Sedat]

I was a strong critic of the Lake trade back in 2012 as I believed we caved in far too early for the first offer on the table from the Hawks - now everything we got for Lake (essentially Hrovat and Stevens) will no longer be at the club in 2017.

They are both 22-30 players on the list so our depth has taken a hit, but truth be told we haven't lost a world of talent. Glad we're holding onto Honeychurch now as that would be too big a hit on our fringe midfield depth.

[comrade]

I was a strong critic of the Lake trade back in 2012 as I believed we caved in far too early for the first offer on the table from the Hawks - now everything we got for Lake (essentially Hrovat and Stevens) will no longer be at the club in 2017.

They are both 22-30 players on the list so our depth has taken a hit, but truth be told we haven't lost a world of talent. Glad we're holding onto Honeychurch now as that would be too big a hit on our fringe midfield depth.

Hrovat > Honeychurch.

IMO, Honey is exactly the type that you look to trade THIS year. Behind plenty and will struggle for opportunities, but he's contracted, meaning we can extract value.

Next year, when he barely plays, he'll leave just like Rat and Stevens, and we'll get peanuts once again.

PS. The Lake deal needs to be lit on fire and thrown down a mine shaft, never to be heard of again. Shocker.

[Sedat]

Hrovat > Honeychurch.

IMO, Honey is exactly the type that you look to trade THIS year. Behind plenty and will struggle for opportunities, but he's contracted, meaning we can extract value.

Next year, when he barely plays, he'll leave just like Rat and Stevens, and we'll get peanuts once again.
Agree that the Rat is the better player but he wants out as does Stevens. Given the outgoings, I'm happy that Honeychurch is there as insurance next year in case we have a spate of midfield injuries. I'm just assuming that there has been no interest in Honey at all this trade period.

[bulldogtragic]

Hrovat > Honeychurch.

IMO, Honey is exactly the type that you look to trade THIS year. Behind plenty and will struggle for opportunities, but he's contracted, meaning we can extract value.

Next year, when he barely plays, he'll leave just like Rat and Stevens, and we'll get peanuts once again.

PS. The Lake deal needs to be lit on fire and thrown down a mine shaft, never to be heard of again. Shocker.

Yep. Traded lake for two highly drafted players and we got one years more service than Lake gave Hawthorn. We got 93 games, they got 54 games and 3 premierships with him.

Add trading Jarrad Grant the year before too. We hold players until they're uncontracted and in the current environment it means you get bugger all.

[kruder]

I guess we weren't that interested despite a couple of reports. It's a huge step by the player to head up there. I'd say he believes they are clearly the flag favourites for next season.

Lose Mumford and they are still in trouble while their defence is still gettable also. I'd suggest Lids will be a Whitfield replacement once he is suspended.

I'm very bullish on our group next year I just think their is huge upside wherever you look.

-The Bont didn't start running until late Jan

-Libba off the back of another preseason will be back to his elite ball winning best.

- A forward line of Crameri,Stringer, Dickson, Mclean, Picken and Boyd is elite.

-JJ aka norm will add All Australian to his list of accolades. He is an absolute jet that kid and he now believes. I was lucky enough to have a good chat to him during the year and he told me that this group absolutely believed they would win a premiership under Beverage.

- Marcus Adams after the first month of footy looked for mine to be one of the best young backs in the comp. Obviously there is chance he will go home at years end but not signing Deledio will enable us to target, sign and strengthen an area of need rather than just a last minute reach. Deledio was gettable from mid year how keen were we really?

Oh then there is Williams and Lynch, two I have really high hopes for.

The list of positives just go on and on for mine. I'd much prefer continue to grow organically like we have which will enable us to retain an exceptional group together while target absolute needs when they arise.

It would have been nice to get a little more for Hamling and Hrovat but in an even draft, having the best recruiter in the country will be handy indeed.

[bulldogtragic]

Agree that the Rat is the better player but he wants out as does Stevens. Given the outgoings, I'm happy that Honeychurch is there as insurance next year in case we have a spate of midfield injuries. I'm jut assuming that there has been no interest in Honey at all this trade period.

There's apparently been a bit of interest in Honey.

[ledge]

There's apparently been a bit of interest in Honey.

He is under contract and said he is staying if that's true he isn't going anywhere no matter who shows interest or what offers come about.

[bulldogtragic]

He is under contract and said he is staying if that's true he isn't going anywhere no matter who shows interest or what offers come about.

Cloke has a contract. Gibbs has a contract. Deledio has a contract. Honey has a contract. Caddy has a contract. If players get a better offer, they go under contracts nowadays. So if there's interest which makes him ask for a trade, then he'd go. If we got a crazy offer, we'd ask him to consider a trade. But that's inconsequential to what I said, I said there's been other clubs interested in acquiring him. If he wants to stay and fight for a spot then good on him for backing himself in when others haven't. But as others have said, if he plays a handful of games next year he will have zero value. But for everyone's sake, let's hope he has a huge 2017.

[jeemak]

I really don't understand the interest some of us have in not backing the organic growth our list building process has fostered these past three or four years.

We expect other clubs to pay overs for players who can't get a game with us through either injury, form, or a mixture of both (Stevens and Hrovat), just so we can feel we've bettered them at the trade table, whilst also expecting us to be active in securing players that are barely going to have a material impact on our output.

There's a genuine disconnect between what we, as supporters, expect to gain for players versus what anyone's willing to pay for them. I mean, after the seasons and playing history Stevens and Hrovat have had, would any of us want to have given something more than a third or fourth rounder of ours to secure either of them?

Even with the Hamling deal we all agree it would have been nice to secure something better than a mid 30's pick for his services, but when you're negotiating with one club only, that type of result is just the market being the market.

Aside from the Cloke deal, I challenge anyone to present me with a trade scenario that should have occurred these past ten days whilst considering what wouldn't compromise our current salary cap position with line of sight to players we need to retain post 2017, and the development of our playing group.

Just because everyone else is flapping their arms to keep their heads above water, it doesn't mean we can't just float to do the same.

[LostDoggy]

Well said J.

[jeemak]

One piece I didn't put in my post is that we need to immediately make overtures to players who are out of contract in 2018-2019 and front load their contracts alongside some renegotiated incentives to keep their cash flow up.

Macrae, Bont, Stringer and JJ are front of mind for me.

[ledge]

I really don't understand the interest some of us have in not backing the organic growth our list building process has fostered these past three or four years.

We expect other clubs to pay overs for players who can't get a game with us through either injury, form, or a mixture of both (Stevens and Hrovat), just so we can feel we've bettered them at the trade table, whilst also expecting us to be active in securing players that are barely going to have a material impact on our output.

There's a genuine disconnect between what we, as supporters, expect to gain for players versus what anyone's willing to pay for them. I mean, after the seasons and playing history Stevens and Hrovat have had, would any of us want to have given something more than a third or fourth rounder of ours to secure either of them?

Even with the Hamling deal we all agree it would have been nice to secure something better than a mid 30's pick for his services, but when you're negotiating with one club only, that type of result is just the market being the market.

Aside from the Cloke deal, I challenge anyone to present me with a trade scenario that should have occurred these past ten days whilst considering what wouldn't compromise our current salary cap position with line of sight to players we need to retain post 2017, and the development of our playing group.

Just because everyone else is flapping their arms to keep their heads above water, it doesn't mean we can't just float to do the same.

Quite amazing isn't it , we win a flag with a very young group and people are going on about why aren't we trading and we should get better trades or pics. Personally I think we have a great list and I back them to get better.
Funny thing the other day I saw a post saying what we needed to fill the missing pieces of the puzzle .. Umm we just won the flag what pieces are we missing .,doesn't that mean we have no missing pieces we just won with the pieces we have !

[Bulldog Joe]

Quite amazing isn't it , we win a flag with a very young group and people are going on about why aren't we trading and we should get better trades or pics. Personally I think we have a great list and I back them to get better.
Funny thing the other day I saw a post saying what we needed to fill the missing pieces of the puzzle .. Umm we just won the flag what pieces are we missing .,doesn't that mean we have no missing pieces we just won with the pieces we have !

While we can certainly improve and there are weak spots, particularly around some key talls.

What we have is players leaving, principally for playing opportunity and a distinct lack of anyone nominating us as their preferred destination.

If you look at the players moving clubs, they would need to be displacing someone from our premiership side. Any of those players would warrant a starting spot on their performance to date and only Hamling is departing. We also have talent waiting in the wings as evidenced by our VFL premiership. We have Murphy, Suckling, and Crameri who missed altogether. There is also Adams, Wallis and Redpath to come back when/if fit. It will be a difficult side to break into.

I am happy for us to keep doing what we are doing and replace through the draft, unless someone drops in our lap, such as Suckling/Cloke.

[LostDoggy]

The Hamling deal is good.

If that Rat deal goes through ill spew, would have been way better off to keep him.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

The Hamling deal is good.

If that Rat deal goes through ill spew, would have been way better off to keep him.

Well. hope you've got a bucket at the ready.

[G-Mo77]

The Hamling deal is good.

If that Rat deal goes through ill spew, would have been way better off to keep him.

The Hamling deal is not good. Probably the best we could have got when over a barrel but not a good return at all. I'll throw up when the Hrovat deal is announced and I've heard that Kobe may go to the Saints as a DFA. I'll wait and see what happens but if it all goes that way it's a big fail from JMac.

[comrade]

I'm happy to not chase any trade targets - Cloke aside - but I would like to see some dealing today that moves us up the draft order. 1 late teen pick, a mid 30s and a bunch beyond 40 isn't giving the best recruiter in the land much to work with.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'll hold fire on the trade period til it's completed. But if this is it, then I'm not buying the 'we just won the flag, our list is young, we've still got natural improvement'. 17 other clubs have natural improvement too. If you're not leveraging premiership success to bring other quality players in to complement the natural improvement of your list, then you are going backwards.

[chef]

I'm happy to not chase any trade targets - Cloke aside - but I would like to see some dealing today that moves us up the draft order. 1 late teen pick, a mid 30s and a bunch beyond 40 isn't giving the best recruiter in the land much to work with.

I think Dal has shown thats still enough to weave some magic.

[GVGjr]

I really don't understand the interest some of us have in not backing the organic growth our list building process has fostered these past three or four years.



I don't think there is a disconnect between backing the development of the young playing list because they still have a long way to go and haven't reached their limits yet. It's genuinely exciting to see so many talented players.

To me there is no link to the continued development of the group and using the trade period to either address gaps within the list or improve our overall position by moving up the draft order.

I think the facts are there for all to see and people will either accept what we have as being good enough or challenge if we could have done better during this trade period.
We have 2 genuine ruckman but they do have an established history of struggling with injuries and in 2017 we won't have the insurance from a former All Australian and durable Will Minson being on the list.
In 2015 despite having those 3 we looked far and wide to bring someone in over the top of them and players like Lobbe and Martin ignored our best efforts. Despite Roughead having a very good year in 2016 we still just have just 2 ruckman and Tom Boyd to cover that position next season and I'm wondering why we aren't looking to at least provide them some support?

A few months back we made a huge play for Michael Hurley. Hurley is a key defender of quality so it's understandable that if he is looking to make a change then we should be talking to him and putting our best offer forward. Still you don't really chase players if you are already strong in that area unless you are looking to trade a player out. Hurley decided to stay at the Bombers which is fair enough however, a couple of things emerged that tests the depth of our KP defender list. Hamling, who finished the season is fantastic form, leaves the club to head home and Marcus Adams, who started the season very well but succumbed to a couple injuries, also puts his hand up to head back home. That leaves us with Roberts who also struggles with injuries Morris who is heading towards the end of his career and Cordy who probably needs another season developing. We have young Collins who I think is still at least another year off challenging for a regular senior spot. Why chase Hurley if we think the default position is good enough anyway despite also losing Hamling?

I see that we have gaps in both the ruck and for key defenders position and yet we don't appear to be in the hunt to even get some short term insurance to cover them.

To me, there is no link about challenging our approach during the trade period and underestimating the continued development of our playing list. I'm genuinely excited about our future but we can't just be standing still and believing that the development of the playing list will be good enough. If people accept the old theory that you draft the best players available and trade for gaps then I think we aren't as active that we might have been.



We expect other clubs to pay overs for players who can't get a game with us through either injury, form, or a mixture of both (Stevens and Hrovat), just so we can feel we've bettered them at the trade table, whilst also expecting us to be active in securing players that are barely going to have a material impact on our output.

There's a genuine disconnect between what we, as supporters, expect to gain for players versus what anyone's willing to pay for them. I mean, after the seasons and playing history Stevens and Hrovat have had, would any of us want to have given something more than a third or fourth rounder of ours to secure either of them?



Now regarding Stevens and Hrovat, I think they are good senior footballers and once again it's more than OK to expect decent and fair outcomes if we are losing them. Fremantle were fair in my opinion with Hamling and I think most people expect decent returns for any player we trade away and I don't expect other clubs to pay overs. Hrovat just needs to have some luck on the injury front and Stevens still has plenty to offer.

[bornadog]

At the end of the day, we need to shift players out. Minson gone and Cloke comes in. Hamling has decided to go, so we need two more spots. Stevens and Hrovat want more opportunity, so they have made it easier for us to turn over players.

I would like to see one more out to make way for Roarke Smith to be promoted. Lynch can do another year on the rookie list atr this stage, and perhaps Prudden goes back to the rookie list as he recovers from his knee injury.

[whythelongface]

Good assessments by both Jeemak and GVG.

My take on our list is that we have a very strong list in terms of our mid and forward stocks and these will continue to develop over the course of the next couple of years. However i do believe our list can be strengthened in two key areas:

- key backmen - the departure of Hamling has left us short in this area. I was initially very keen to see Adams moved on, however once Hamling made his intentions clear it was clear that Adams needs to stay next year (hoping this works out ok). We are still one or two players short in this area and whilst our defensive mantra is a genuine team defence (which obviously worked this year) we could do with one or two key position players. There certainly doesn't appear to be many options this year, thus next year (with the imminent departure of Adams) will be a key area that needs shoring up. Cordy will move back next year and his development will be a key to us moving forward.

- the other area is an outside flanker, such as a Delidio, who could provide us with run from our inside mids and accurate delivery into our forward line. Whilst it would be good to get Lids I am not keen on his price tag. However a similar player would be an excellent addition to our already strong midfield.

I am not concerned about our ruck stocks as we have 3 genuine ruckman. Boyd has shown in the Finals series that this is where his strength is and with a combination of Boyd, Roughead and Campbell I believe we have enough talent in this area to cover any injury.

I still believe we are in a very strong position list wise and that a couple of key additions over the next two years will continue to see us challenge.

[1eyedog]

We have 2 genuine ruckman but they do have an established history of struggling with injuries and in 2017 we won't have the insurance from a former All Australian and durable Will Minson being on the list.
In 2015 despite having those 3 we looked far and wide to bring someone in over the top of them and players like Lobbe and Martin ignored our best efforts. Despite Roughead having a very good year in 2016 we still just have just 2 ruckman and Tom Boyd to cover that position next season and I'm wondering why we aren't looking to at least provide them some support?

A few months back we made a huge play for Michael Hurley. Hurley is a key defender of quality so it's understandable that if he is looking to make a change then we should be talking to him and putting our best offer forward. Still you don't really chase players if you are already strong in that area unless you are looking to trade a player out. Hurley decided to stay at the Bombers which is fair enough however, a couple of things emerged that tests the depth of our KP defender list. Hamling, who finished the season is fantastic form, leaves the club to head home and Marcus Adams, who started the season very well but succumbed to a couple injuries, also puts his hand up to head back home. That leaves us with Roberts who also struggles with injuries Morris who is heading towards the end of his career and Cordy who probably needs another season developing. We have young Collins who I think is still at least another year off challenging for a regular senior spot. Why chase Hurley if we think the default position is good enough anyway despite also losing Hamling?

I see that we have gaps in both the ruck and for key defenders position and yet we don't appear to be in the hunt to even get some short term insurance to cover them.

Any ruckman coming into this squad must realise that there is high likelihood that they will be playing for Footscray all year and I'm sure this knowledge is a major deterrent. Ruckman are hard enough to acquire but the thought of being a 3rd string ruckman may be the governing factor here.

We went hard at Lobbe and Martin because Bevo wanted more flexibility both in terms of the roles players play and also because they need to be able to morph with the changing game plan. Minson didn't fit that bill, neither does Campbell really although he can play forward and while we tested Cordy on this front he came up short. So he turned to Roughead. Twelve months ago Roughie wasn't a ruck, we had Campbell and Minson and Bevo knew Minson was gone so, Goetz aside, that left Campbell. JMac went looking for the ruckman Bevo was after (Lobbe / Martin) and when that didn't come off we turned to Roughie, who excelled this year. Roughie rucks next year with Campbell as good, honest cover.

If Roughie (who has surprised many on here with his durability), and Campbell cop injuries Boyd will go into the ruck and Cloke will play forward, that's three ruckman ready to go on the list. What type of ruckman were you after? A Witts? Would he be prepared to play at Footscray all year potentially behind Roughie, Campbell and Boyd because I'd play Boyd ruck before anyone who might have been available this trade period. West Coast and Melbourne were also big on rucks which further constrained our ability to acquire one.

Re. Hurley we clearly chased him because Zaine was developing at Footscray and Hamling wasn't able to follow defensive structures, that changed and now Hamling leaving becomes an issue. Zaine / Richards if we're interested will come in and play that role next season. Hamling is not a loss although I would have preferred more for him given how much Freo was into him. We do need to find cover for Adams and while Collins will be given more game time next year our search next trade period will likely focus on a key defender.

[Mofra]

- the other area is an outside flanker, such as a Delidio, who could provide us with run from our inside mids and accurate delivery into our forward line. Whilst it would be good to get Lids I am not keen on his price tag. However a similar player would be an excellent addition to our already strong midfield.
If you're talking a HFF / high forward we have Dale developing here and Webb is being developed to play anywhere - and there's a bloke called Crameri who was pretty good at it too (I expect he'll take time to get the pace of the game again).

I'm glad we keep our first round pick and haven't traded it away for Motlop.

[comrade]

I'm not sure moves we were looking to make 12 months or even 6 months ago should be used as an indictment on our list and list management. Things change quickly.

[S Coast Simon]

The thing I find funny is the value put on draft picks compared to proven players. The draft is a bit of a lottery where we hope they turn into top line players. To value a premiership winning KB at 35 in the draft seems a bit ridiculous. A small percentage of draftees make it every year yet people believe the 35th kid drafted is going to be as good a player as Hamling. Looking at past players taken around this pick there are not to many successful pick 35 players running around. I understand there are success stories later in the draft but not many

[westdog54]

The Hamling deal is not good. Probably the best we could have got when over a barrel but not a good return at all. I'll throw up when the Hrovat deal is announced and I've heard that Kobe may go to the Saints as a DFA. I'll wait and see what happens but if it all goes that way it's a big fail from JMac.

I can't see how Stevens goes to Stkilda as a DFA.

If they haven't been reasonable in terms of a trade then he can take his chances in the PSD. I don't see why we'd give StKilda a chop out and delist him.

Had Hamling not had a September purple patch we would have taken that trade with open arms.

[bulldogtragic]

Hun saying paperwork to be lodged in a few minutes. Hrovat for a swap of 2017 3rd & 4th rounders.

[1eyedog]

Hun saying paperwork to be lodged in a few minutes. Hrovat for a swap of 2017 3rd & 4th rounders.

That's a shame given his early career form, that we got him on the lake trade and given how much he is liked around the club. He'll get more game time at Norf than with us though no doubt Go well little man.

[bulldogtragic]

That's a shame given his early career form, that we got him on the lake trade and given how much he is liked around the club. He'll get more game time at Norf than with us though no doubt Go well little man.

And may North win the wooden spoon.

[comrade]

And may North win the wooden spoon.

Getting future picks from teams you don't like makes rooting against them even more fun.

[GVGjr]

We've traded picks with Gold Coast

35 and 43 for 26 and 80

[comrade]

We've traded picks with Gold Coast

35 and 43 for 26 and 80

Perfect move. Must improve our draft position.

[1eyedog]

We've traded picks with Gold Coast

35 and 43 for 26 and 80

18 and 26 in mind are we just moving up or have something in mind today?

[bulldogtragic]

We've traded picks with Gold Coast

35 and 43 for 26 and 80

18, 26, 50 & 61 (Cloke) (74, 75, 80 passed)

Looks like 3 picks this year.

Edit: GCS picked up nearly 170 points.

[LostDoggy]

I like getting up to 26, but the 80 part is wierd. Useless to us unless it's used as part of the Cloke deal.

[comrade]

I like getting up to 26, but the 80 part is wierd. Useless to us unless it's used as part of the Cloke deal.

If I recall correctly, pick 80 isn't worth any points for F/S bidding so would be useless to Pies too.

[1eyedog]

If I recall correctly, pick 80 isn't worth any points for F/S bidding so would be useless to Pies too.

Yeah it's why they kept knocking back 74 as well.

[LostDoggy]

If I recall correctly, pick 80 isn't worth any points for F/S bidding so would be useless to Pies too.

If they parcel up a lot of their higher picks for f/s, they may use it for a selection.

[GVGjr]

18, 26, 50 & 61 (Cloke) (74, 75, 80 passed)

Looks like 3 picks this year.

It sure does. Maybe a trade for Richards could still be done.
I was hoping the Stevens deal would have been completed. 35 and 50 for 26 and 80 would have been better. As it stands we gave up 900 points for 729. 35 and 50 would have been about 800 points.

[Topdog]

We've traded picks with Gold Coast

35 and 43 for 26 and 80

See now that is a good deal.

[GVGjr]

If they parcel up a lot of their higher picks for f/s, they may use it for a selection.

There are no points value after pick 73.

[Axe Man]

I like getting up to 26, but the 80 part is wierd. Useless to us unless it's used as part of the Cloke deal.

I think you have to trade equal numbers of picks - ie we couldn't trade 35 and 43 just for 26, GC had to give us 2 picks back so they just gave us a useless one. The trade is really just 26 for 35 and 43 but couldn't be completed like that.

[bulldogtragic]

I wonder is Brisbane would trade 21 & 22 for 18 & 26? Points are virtually identical. They get a 3 pick upgrade into the first, and a 4 drop in the second. We know Dal loves back to back picks in the 20's.

[GVGjr]

I wonder is Brisbane would trade 21 & 22 for 18 & 26? Points are virtually identical. They get a 3 pick upgrade into the first, and a 4 drop in the second. We know Dal loves back to back picks in the 20's.

Yes it measures up on points but the Lions aren't after points. What advantage do you think back to back picks gives us?

We rank players 1 to whatever and in the early rounds we just take the best players available.

[comrade]

Getting pick 80 could mean Roarke Smith gets upgraded?

[comrade]

I wonder is Brisbane would trade 21 & 22 for 18 & 26? Points are virtually identical. They get a 3 pick upgrade into the first, and a 4 drop in the second. We know Dal loves back to back picks in the 20's.

I'd prefer giving Dal the earlier pick.

[bulldogtragic]

Yes it measures up on points but the Lions aren't after points. What advantage do you think back to back picks gives us?

We rank players 1 to whatever and in the early rounds we just take the best players available.

Yeah, just pointing out its an equitable trade. Only advantage is that Dal says he loves back to back picks. If he is of the view 18-21 is not much a risk of losing a player, but that 26-22 gets us a better player, then it's his call to ask for a trade to get the back to back 21 & 22.

[GVGjr]

Getting pick 80 could mean Roarke Smith gets upgraded?

We have Minson, Hrovat, Hamling and Stevens off the list
We have Cloke, picks 18, 26 and 50* to add

We would need to drop off one more off to elevate Roarke Smith. Perhaps a swap with Prudden would mean we use pick 80.

[bulldogtragic]

Getting pick 80 could mean Roarke Smith gets upgraded?

We have 74 (Talia) & 75 on the books too. 80 is a pass I'd guess.

[Cyberdoggie]

Getting pick 80 could mean Roarke Smith gets upgraded?

That's what i'm thinking as well. Trying to read into it i'm guessing we don't see a player we need for pick 43, and/or perhaps we feel 35 isn't going to get us the player Dalrymple wants.

[bulldogtragic]

We have Minson, Hrovat, Hamling and Stevens off the list
We have Cloke, picks 18, 26 and 50* to add

We would need to drop off one more off to elevate Roarke Smith. Perhaps a swap with Prudden would mean we use pick 80.

With Wallis likely out for the year, Roarke can be upgraded all year. Probably not worth changing it up. Prudden has a make or break 2017.

[Axe Man]

Getting pick 80 could mean Roarke Smith gets upgraded?

I don't see how the 2 are connected? We could upgrade him with pick 120 (or whatever it goes to) if we want. Of course we will probably only have 3 live picks so it won't get down that far.

[Axe Man]

With Wallis likely out for the year, Roarke can be upgraded all year. Probably not worth changing it up. Prudden has a make or break 2017.

Good point. Redpath out most of the year as well. I know almost everybody on here keeps mentioning upgrading Roarke but I don't see the point this year with list spots at a premium. He will be available to play every game this year whilst on the rookie list.

[divvydan]

I wonder is Brisbane would trade 21 & 22 for 18 & 26? Points are virtually identical. They get a 3 pick upgrade into the first, and a 4 drop in the second. We know Dal loves back to back picks in the 20's.

Keeping our first round pick is important for more flexibility in trading over the next two years. If we were to trade 18 and 26 for 21 and 22 we wouldn't be taking a pick in the first round again this year and it would basically lock us into keeping our next two first round picks or trading someone out to bring in another first round pick over the next two years.

[GVGjr]

With Wallis likely out for the year, Roarke can be upgraded all year. Probably not worth changing it up. Prudden has a make or break 2017.

Assuming we want both guys which I think is a safe assumption then I think you would want the player more likely to play more senior football. If that is correct I'd elevate Smith and offer Prudden a spot on the rookie list. Smith is just more athletically gifted to me and probably more versatile.

[Axe Man]

St Kilda list manager Ameet Bains: We expect Koby Stevens to be a Saint by the end of today. We've been speaking to the Dogs independent of that (other trade discussions).

[bulldogtragic]

Assuming we want both guys which I think is a safe assumption then I think you would want the player more likely to play more senior football. If that is correct I'd elevate Smith and offer Prudden a spot on the rookie list. Smith is just more athletically gifted to me and probably more versatile.

Perhaps, but it might annoy Prudden getting demoted and pay cut. If Bevo wants to keep the group together and happy, it's an interesting move if Roarke would be upgraded for the season. I'm not against it all, but it's just seat shifting.

[LostDoggy]

Perhaps, but it might annoy Prudden getting demoted and pay cut. If Bevo wants to keep the group together and happy, it's an interesting move if Roarke would be upgraded for the season. I'm not against it all, but it's just seat shifting.

It's not unreasonable though. Roarke has shown enough to be senior listed whereas Prudden's injuries make his status as a member of the list borderline (rookie) at best.

[GVGjr]

Perhaps, but it might annoy Prudden getting demoted and pay cut. If Bevo wants to keep the group together and happy, it's an interesting move if Roarke would be upgraded for the season. I'm not against it all, but it's just seat shifting.

The counter to that is if someone like the Saints are talking to Roarke Smith.

I think the question is more around who's most likely to get to 60 games of senior football or which player is the better prospect.

[LostDoggy]

Dog's go Bang! with a pick swap with Gold Coast - pick 26 and 80 for 35 and 43.

I like it.

[bulldogtragic]

So in effect, we traded our original pick 40 & Hamling for 26 & 80.

That 3 pick downgrade in the Hamling trade meant nothing as expected.

[bornadog]

Assuming we want both guys which I think is a safe assumption then I think you would want the player more likely to play more senior football. If that is correct I'd elevate Smith and offer Prudden a spot on the rookie list. Smith is just more athletically gifted to me and probably more versatile.

Prudden is essentially a midfielder, so I would say he is more flexible.

[westdog54]

Perhaps, but it might annoy Prudden getting demoted and pay cut. If Bevo wants to keep the group together and happy, it's an interesting move if Roarke would be upgraded for the season. I'm not against it all, but it's just seat shifting.

If Prudden is spending a fair chunk of next year on the sidelines can we simply elevate Lynch for Prudden and Smith for Wallis?

On the Hrovat trade, are we banking on North having a massive drop next year? Could turn out to be a work of genius.

[Ozza]

It's not unreasonable though. Roarke has shown enough to be senior listed whereas Prudden's injuries make his status as a member of the list borderline (rookie) at best.

Prudden's AFL games have been better than Smith's - and both players have done a knee - so I don't really understand the above.

[bulldogtragic]

The counter to that is if someone like the Saints are talking to Roarke Smith.

I think the question is more around who's most likely to get to 60 games of senior football or which player is the better prospect.

I'm not against it, I would actually delist him and not rookie him. I'm just playing guess work. If we rookie him I want a one year offer only, as our history of rookie listing delistees isn't great.

[Ozza]

If Prudden is spending a fair chunk of next year on the sidelines can we simply elevate Lynch for Prudden and Smith for Wallis?

On the Hrovat trade, are we banking on North having a massive drop next year? Could turn out to be a work of genius.

Prudden and Murphy did their knees at pretty much the same time, and started running at the same time. You would think both would be on track to be playing footy at the beginning of the year.

[bulldogtragic]

If Prudden is spending a fair chunk of next year on the sidelines can we simply elevate Lynch for Prudden and Smith for Wallis?

On the Hrovat trade, are we banking on North having a massive drop next year? Could turn out to be a work of genius.

Correct, we can upgrade them for Wally, Prudden &/or Redders.

[The Doctor]

love the pick upgrade to 26. that gives us 2 shots at picking up a couple of young guns and in a very strong draft.

hate the Hrovat deal

[comrade]

love the pick upgrade to 26. that gives us 2 shots at picking up a couple of young guns and in a very strong draft.

hate the Hrovat deal

The Hrovat deal is what it is. No need to sweat the small stuff.

[GVGjr]

If Prudden is spending a fair chunk of next year on the sidelines can we simply elevate Lynch for Prudden and Smith for Wallis?

On the Hrovat trade, are we banking on North having a massive drop next year? Could turn out to be a work of genius.

Perhaps if we were talking about a round 2 swap of picks but 3rd and 4th round swaps is just a bit of tinkering.
I guess it's not a bad deal but I think it's well under for a player like Hrovat who I would have been more than happy to try and keep.

[1eyedog]

I'd throw the Swans a late pick for Richards.

[bulldogtragic]

Perhaps if we were talking about a round 2 swap of picks but 3rd and 4th round swaps is just a bit of tinkering.
I guess it's not a bad deal but I think it's well under for a player like Hrovat who I would have been more than happy to try and keep.

Yep, hypothetically 40 & 58 for 50 & 68. Not big, unless we want to flip them again to bank towards Rhylee West in 2018.

[Raw Toast]

Geez trading period is immensely frustrating, isn't it - all the hope and agony of footy without any actual games to go and barrack at and see something actually happen.

We hear names, dream of glorious players and the joy they might bring us, and then with everything happening off-stage, we wait and wait, relying on rumours, guesses, innuendo, and don't know what JMac and the rest did or didn't do. And not only that, but we don't have the context of matches and a season or three to know if they did well or not. Let alone knowing how much of their work during this trade period will bear fruit in following trade periods.

I find myself agreeing with both sides of the general argument being canvassed in this thread - yes I think we can get better and those in charge of list management should be working on this, and yes I think many of us expect too much in return from our players and who we might be able to bring to the club (at this moment in time).

In essence:

* Our list is very strong but could be improved in terms of key defenders, ruck-stocks, run and footskills;

* Hopefully we are becoming a destination club, but it just doesn't happen over-night - it has taken sustained success for the Hawks, Cats and Swans to become teams that very good players from other clubs wanted to move to. We won the flag this year, but it takes more than a few weeks for this to play out in our favour - hopefully the 2016 glory inspires dreams and discussions that lead to future acquisitions that we all revel in;

* We rate players like Hrovat, Stevens (who I've been a big advocate for) and even Hamling highly in terms of trades because we've invested ourselves in their potential and know how good they could be. Other teams have similar players who most of us would rate much less highly because we haven't followed them closely, treasured their moments of promise and dreamed of what they could do.

I love Hamling but he has a great ceiling and very low floor - we wanted to get a return on his ceiling (excellent finals series), but he hasn't played well enough for long enough to get that. He finished off 2015 well and then was pretty awful for much of 2016. Was he mainly a product of our system, or a late developer who needed confidence? Who knows. We'll get answers in the next few years, but he's by no means a sure thing to replicate his finals form on a consistent basis.

Hrovat has flashed moments of great promise and could be an excellent player. But his history of soft-tissue injuries is a huge risk factor - even with our developing expertise in handling these, we haven't been able to keep him on the park. And even when fit later in the year he couldn't hold his place in the team. He's been passed by Hunter, Jong, Daniel, McLean, Dunkley and probably Webb (who was ahead of him as an emergency). Lots of us, including me, are still invested in his potential but how many frequently injured players of his ilk who are not selected in the best 22 at other teams would you pay a mid-round draft pick for?

Stevens is similar. When fully fit I really like him, but it seems like he needs to be fully fit to have a significant impact. We got him for pick 44 as a promising youngster who couldn't crack a good midfield due in part to injuries. He has been in and out of our team under Beveridge, struggled with injuries, and couldn't make the squad for the finals. What pick would you pay for him to come to us on the basis of his last two seasons, or indeed his whole time with us?

* I'd love a big trade that we all (or most of us) see as a trade win, but just because it hasn't happened I don't think that means that we are being complacent. We don't want to pay overs, we don't want to radically shake up the current list, and if we keep our powder dry for the next trade period I can live with that. We have space, and another season will hopefully give us time to begin leveraging our success and the clear joy of playing under Bevo into useful-excellent free agency (and related) moves.

[Raw Toast]

Ugh, double post

I'll note that I would have been very happy to keep both Hrovat and Stevens, but both know that they should be able to get better opportunities elsewhere and have requested to go.

Apparently we don't have a contract offer to Stevens at the moment, so it's hard to expect much from the Saints for him. Seems like we chose Jong over him, and even I (who rate Stevens higher than most on this board) would probably have done the same.

And while we'd like to keep Hrovat, none of us will want us to pay overs on a contract for him either. It's not nice to have him cherry picked away from us, but much better than having someone from the finals midfield squeezed out. The Rat chose to stay with us when he could have left, but now realises that it really probably is best for his career to move elsewhere. I wish both well, and wish we could get more for them, but I also think I understand why we can't.

[bulldogtragic]

I wonder if we can trade Koby & 26 for 23 & 50. Bains keeps his mid 20's pick, which is his not negotiable. 50 and a slight upgrade is better than 50 alone.

[GVGjr]

I'd throw the Swans a late pick for Richards.

Apparently no clubs are talking to the Swans about him. I think it's worth considering.

[Topdog]

Perhaps, but it might annoy Prudden getting demoted and pay cut. If Bevo wants to keep the group together and happy, it's an interesting move if Roarke would be upgraded for the season. I'm not against it all, but it's just seat shifting.

It might also annoy Roarke knowing that he is rated higher yet paid less than someone who was told they would be rookie listed.

[bulldogtragic]

It might also annoy Roarke knowing that he is rated higher yet paid less than someone who was told they would be rookie listed.

I agree. I'm just playing guess work, like guessing match committee. What I actually think never eventuates! :D

[GVGjr]

Raw Toast, it's a great pleasure of mine to be reading your contributions. Many thanks.

[Eastdog]

Can we still get Deledio?

[Cyberdoggie]

Cloke for pick 76 official

[G-Mo77]

Cloke for pick 76 official

I guess they took the packet of chips.

[GVGjr]

Can we still get Deledio?

No chance I'd say Easty.

[bulldogtragic]

So 18, 26, 50 (Stevens) & 61 plus Cloke for 76.

That's 5 spots. Prudden gets cut maybe. I wonder what we want with 50 & 61? Richards, Pickett etc?

[Sedat]

So 18, 26, 50 (Stevens) & 61 plus Cloke for 76.

That's 5 spots. Prudden gets cut maybe. I wonder what we want with 50 & 61? Richards, Pickett etc?
Would we package 50 and 61 for a pick in the 40's? Or add in pick 26 to get into the first round?

[GVGjr]

Would we package 50 and 61 for a pick in the 40's? Or add in pick 26 to get into the first round?

We are still talking to the Saints. Perhaps something in that

[Cyberdoggie]

No chance I'd say Easty.

I heard on the radio that he had a medical with us earlier in the week, and after this he went up to GWS to seek a deal.

That tells me he failed the medical or didn't impress and as a result we weren't interested.

[Axe Man]

I heard on the radio that he had a medical with us earlier in the week, and after this he went up to GWS to seek a deal.

That tells me he failed the medical or didn't impress and as a result we weren't interested.

No, it's been reported the other way around.


The Bulldogs came hard for Deledio, completing medical examinations on the 29-year-old on Wednesday.

The premiers had arranged a medical with Deledio a few weeks ago, but pulled out when coach Luke Beveridge went cold on the idea. However, they were keen to add Deledio’s finishing class to a side tailor-made to his abilities.

Deledio was in Sydney on Tuesday for meetings with GWS coach Leon Cameron and head of football Wayne Campbell, a former teammate.

It seems like we changed our mind but were too late. All sounds a bit amateurish to be honest. Hopefully it is another in a long list of trades that almost happened that turned out to be a bullet dodged (Lobbe, Dawes, Bate, etc)

[bornadog]

Koby Stevens not done yet

[Topdog]

Koby Stevens not done yet

interesting isnt it. Only 12 minutes to go.

[Ozza]

O'Meara to Hawks got done.

[bornadog]

O'Meara to Hawks got done.

and Lids is done

[Sedat]

Koby Stevens deal done as well according to SEN

[G-Mo77]

Kobe and 61 for 50?

Better than nothing.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Kobe and 61 for 50?

Better than nothing.

I think it might also include their 4th next year, for our 5th

[GVGjr]

Koby Stevens has crossed to St Kilda from the Bulldogs.

St Kilda also got pick No.61 and the Bulldogs' 2017 fourth round pick the deal where the Saints sent pick 50 and their 2017 round five pick to the Bulldogs.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Pretty ordinary trade period. While I don't think Hamling, Stevens or Hrovat are stars we clearly lost on all deals and in all likelihood the players we'll select won't play as many games as them.

Hopefully Cloke performs.

[G-Mo77]

Koby Stevens has crossed to St Kilda from the Bulldogs.

St Kilda also got pick No.61 and the Bulldogs' 2017 fourth round pick the deal where the Saints sent pick 50 and their 2017 round five pick to the Bulldogs.

My mail this morning (St. Kilda guy) was they expected to get him as a DFA so I'm pleased we got a jump in the draft instead of nothing. It's still pretty meh though like all of our trades during the period (Minus Cloke).

[bornadog]

Pretty ordinary trade period. While I don't think Hamling, Stevens or Hrovat are stars we clearly lost on all deals and in all likelihood the players we'll select won't play as many games as them.

Hopefully Cloke performs.

We have 18, 26 and 50 plus Cloke. I would give us a pass.

[GVGjr]

My mail this morning (St. Kilda guy) was they expected to get him as a DFA so I'm pleased we got a jump in the draft instead of nothing. It's still pretty meh though like all of our trades during the period (Minus Cloke).

So to move up 11 positions in the 3rd round this year we gave them our 4th round pick next year for their 5th round pick next year.
It's an OK deal

[bulldogtragic]

Koby Stevens has crossed to St Kilda from the Bulldogs.

St Kilda also got pick No.61 and the Bulldogs' 2017 fourth round pick the deal where the Saints sent pick 50 and their 2017 round five pick to the Bulldogs.

Is the trade 4 to 5 against us? If so, we traded Hrovat for a 4th round upgrade and then downgraded that to a 5th rounder of a potential finals side. That's a negative trade overall???

[comrade]

Pretty ordinary trade period. While I don't think Hamling, Stevens or Hrovat are stars we clearly lost on all deals and in all likelihood the players we'll select won't play as many games as them.

Hopefully Cloke performs.

We turned Hamling into pick 26. I'm confident Dal can select a player that plays more than the 23 games that Joel turned out for.

There is no losing when it comes to uncontracted players. Why would any club pay overs for blokes that are fringe and aren't tied to a contract.

Some here are hoping for miracles.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

That puts and end to what I think is a very disappointing effort by the club this trade period.
We've not leveraged the Grand Final success to attract anyone to address any of our list needs, and worse than that I think we were found wanting with the Deledio situation and as a result missed the boat.I thought was the ideal type of person to improve our outside run and disposal efficiency. He's a very flexible type player too.
And we brought in Cloke who I just don't rate, and who I think is more of a liability to our side.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So to move up 11 positions in the 3rd round this year we gave them our 4th round pick next year for their 5th round pick next year.
It's an OK deal

Yeah but our 4th rounder next years is north's 4th rounder after the Hrovat trade. Fairly disappointing trade period for us IMO

[hujsh]

So to move up 11 positions in the 3rd round this year we gave them our 4th round pick next year for their 5th round pick next year.
It's an OK deal

Our 4th round pick is already at the Roos isn't it? Did we trade that?

Is Koby really worth so much less that pick 50?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

And we still have only 2 ruckman don't we?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Jeez i think all our eggs were in the Michael Hurley basket. When he flipped at the last minute we look to have had no plan B

[bulldogtragic]

Yeah but our 4th rounder next years is north's 4th rounder after the Hrovat trade. Fairly disappointing trade period for us IMO

I thought it was the other way. But if we upgraded 68 to 58 through Hrovat, and then gave 58 to 74.

So we go up 11 this year, and lose the Hrovat upgrade and drop 16 or so spots.

That's a shit trade.

[bulldogtragic]

And we still have only 2 ruckman don't we?

Yep. Unless we get a delisted free agent.

[Remi Moses]

Pretty ordinary trade period. While I don't think Hamling, Stevens or Hrovat are stars we clearly lost on all deals and in all likelihood the players we'll select won't play as many games as them.

Hopefully Cloke performs.

What would you prefer they do? I'm staggered by the response from some people to be honest.
I'd like a back up key back personally , but I trust the recruiting and development of our list .
Been pretty decent so far .

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

That puts and end to what I think is a very disappointing effort by the club this trade period.
We've not leveraged the Grand Final success to attract anyone to address any of our list needs, and worse than that I think we were found wanting with the Deledio situation and as a result missed the boat.I thought was the ideal type of person to improve our outside run and disposal efficiency. He's a very flexible type player too.
And we brought in Cloke who I just don't rate, and who I think is more of a liability to our side.

[Sedat]

Is the trade 4 to 5 against us? If so, we traded Hrovat for a 4th round upgrade and then downgraded that to a 5th rounder of a potential finals side. That's a negative trade overall???
In: pick 50, 2017 Norf 3rd rounder, 2017 Saints 5th rounder
Out: Hrovat, Stevens, pick 61, 2017 Dogs 3rd rounder, 2017 Dogs 4th rounder

The 5th and 4th round swaps next year most likely won't even be used by either club. Not great but better than nothing - player retention and drafting is our priority as it should be.

[G-Mo77]

We have 18, 26 and 50 plus Cloke. I would give us a pass.

Hamling 40 & 61 for 35, 43 & 61 Loss
Hrovat 3rd and 4th in 2017 for Norf's 3rd and 4th in 2017 Loss
Cloke for pick 76 Win
Kobe 61 and 4th in 2017 for 50 and 5th in 2017 Loss
Picks 35 + 40 for 26 and 80 Tie

Overall it's a pretty ordinary picture although I tend to sway a little more seeing other players go for picks in the 70's - 100's and we did actually get usable picks back for Hrovat and Stevens. We give Dal 18 and 26 and we should net something nice there. I can't give our team a pass mark though.

[Ozza]

Hamling signalling his intentions to go the Western Australia certainly made it hard for us to have a 'win' for the trade period.

For me, to Lose Hamling, Hrovat, Stevens - and to have a marginal draft position improvement, and get in Cloke - who I think is well past it and won't improve us - and then add to that, that Marcus Adams also wants to leave...

Think it's been an ordinary two weeks for us, and as YHF suggests, disappointing to not be able to leverage our premiership success to attract a quality player.

Due to my obvious negativity towards recruiting Cloke - WOOF has been a dilemma for me! I want to log in all the time because of the great period we've had - but all the trade stuff has irked me!! Going to be a long off-season waiting to start again and see what we've got in 2017!!

[Remi Moses]

Fringe players are being shifted around for low picks with every club .

[Bulldog4life]

What would you prefer they do? I'm staggered by the response from some people to be honest.
I'd like a back up key back personally , but I trust the recruiting and development of our list .
Been pretty decent so far .

Agree Remi. I am happy with how the Club has handled this. We were dealing with fringe players. All over now.