Game Day Round 3 2016 - Western Bulldogs V Hawthorn

[Hotdog60]

Yes I agree, he seems to lumber around a bit.

I hope his not carrying the dreaded OP.

[Go_Dogs]

I hope his not carrying the dreaded OP.

Over summer when I got out to training he wasn't moving well - I put it down to the surgery I understand he had to his hip in the off-season and perhaps he still isn't 100% or lacks a bit of conditioning.

[Hotdog60]

Over summer when I got out to training he wasn't moving well - I put it down to the surgery I understand he had to his hip in the off-season and perhaps he still isn't 100% or lacks a bit of conditioning.

I hope that maybe the case so he up and flying come the second half.

[bornadog]

I hope that maybe the case so he up and flying come the second half.

Mantis also confirmed he wasn't running till after Christmas.

[merantau]

I thought it was a free, but honestly we deserved to have that goal kicked on us for being stupid enough to not pay any attention to Sicily.
I thought it was a free too. And the deliberate OOB paid against Suckling, from which Rioli scored a freak goal was a very poor decision. As I saw it Suckling was not in control of the ball and was actually pushed from behind and this caused the ball to cross the line.
But those are not the major reason we lost. We missed very get-able set shots and some handballs and kicks to advantage, from which we should have goaled, were well astray. Hawthorn know they will have to fight for every possession next time we meet. They will not feel comfortable at all knowing they will likely come up against us again

[jeemak]

I thought it was a free, but honestly we deserved to have that goal kicked on us for being stupid enough to not pay any attention to Sicily.

It wasn't the leaving of Sicily that hurt us - that's a symptom of how footy's played these days and having numbers back would have made it more likely the ball would pass through our half forward and wing area. What screwed us was the fact we couldn't kill a loose ball after the Hawks dropped a chest mark from a mongrel kick out.

At the ten second mark of the video BAD posted you see Jordan Roughead crowd the ball completely unnecessarily leaving Burgoyne to slip outside and clear. That created the clean ball practically under no pressure. It reminded me of the type of things we used to do in Bmac's years when we were unbelievably easy to score against.

I posted in the premiership thread that we're not disciplined enough to think our way through these situations as yet. We desperately need to be as instances like these up the ground make us easy to score against down the ground.

[bornadog]

I thought it was a free too. And the deliberate OOB paid against Suckling, from which Rioli scored a freak goal was a very poor decision. As I saw it Suckling was not in control of the ball and was actually pushed from behind and this caused the ball to cross the line.
But those are not the major reason we lost. We missed very get-able set shots and some handballs and kicks to advantage, from which we should have goaled, were well astray. Hawthorn know they will have to fight for every possession next time we meet. They will not feel comfortable at all knowing they will likely come up against us again

We smashed them in Cont possessions and clearances and they are supposed to have one of the toughest midfields. They know they were lucky to win, as we handed them the game.

[Happy Days]

It wasn't the leaving of Sicily that hurt us - that's a symptom of how footy's played these days and having numbers back would have made it more likely the ball would pass through our half forward and wing area. What screwed us was the fact we couldn't kill a loose ball after the Hawks dropped a chest mark from a mongrel kick out.

At the ten second mark of the video BAD posted you see Jordan Roughead crowd the ball completely unnecessarily leaving Burgoyne to slip outside and clear. That created the clean ball practically under no pressure. It reminded me of the type of things we used to do in Bmac's years when we were unbelievably easy to score against.

I posted in the premiership thread that we're not disciplined enough to think our way through these situations as yet. We desperately need to be as instances like these up the ground make us easy to score against down the ground.

I like to think I'm a football modernist, but opting for a forward press over two men back with a minute to go in a game you're WINNING is really, really stupid.

[Stefcep]

We smashed them in Cont possessions and clearances and they are supposed to have one of the toughest midfields. They know they were lucky to win, as we handed them the game.

Absolutely.

We're getting hung up on the last scoring shot of the game or pressure/decision-making/clean possession as if thats where the game was lost. We lost it as simply as it sounds because we didn't put it on the score board. Its nowhere near as bad as its being made out to be. We simply have to finish our shots on goal.

At one point we scored 8 goals from stoppages and only two from open play. They were the opposite.

[AndrewP6]

Absolutely.

We're getting hung up on the last scoring shot of the game or pressure/decision-making/clean possession as if thats where the game was lost. We lost it as simply as it sounds because we didn't put it on the score board. Its nowhere near as bad as its being made out to be. We simply have to finish our shots on goal.

That is at the very core of the game. If we don't put it through the big sticks enough, we're going to find it hard.

[jeemak]

I like to think I'm a football modernist, but opting for a forward press over two men back with a minute to go in a game you're WINNING is really, really stupid.

No it's not. You maintain a half ground forward press and you do the disciplined thing and hold your space after the ball is kicked in and in dispute - which we didn't do. What makes you think with four minutes to go we'd have had the energy to get back and keep up with the footy as it flew out of our our forward line over the heads of defenders running back?

If you open up the first 70-80m from a kick-out against a side like the Hawks they're going to be within 20m of goal within ten seconds. They're that bloody good. The reason you play that way against them ALL game is because it's the best way to stop them from using their obviously superior foot skills. They also had a tendency to take contested marks forward for some reason throughout the second half and that really hurt us, so I'm glad we set up for that not to happen.

I was sitting behind the Dogs goals on level three and in a perfect position to see how that last play unfolded with the Hawks kicking out. Our set up was OK, but it was clear the Hawks were going down the middle and we didn't do enough to stop it by narrowing our press to push them wide and give them and easy boundary option. We were too slow to open up the pockets/flanks.

The plan was fine, we just botched it. If we admit it as a team we'll be able to move on.

[LostDoggy]

Our setup for the final play was fine. The absolute mung of a kick landing to Burgoyne was unlucky. He dropped it which was lucky. We just needed to lock it in and get 1 ball up so we could set up behind the ball. We had the players theres but we weren't smart enough.

[Happy Days]

No it's not. You maintain a half ground forward press and you do the disciplined thing and hold your space after the ball is kicked in and in dispute - which we didn't do. What makes you think with four minutes to go we'd have had the energy to get back and keep up with the footy as it flew out of our our forward line over the heads of defenders running back?

If you open up the first 70-80m from a kick-out against a side like the Hawks they're going to be within 20m of goal within ten seconds. They're that bloody good. The reason you play that way against them ALL game is because it's the best way to stop them from using their obviously superior foot skills. They also had a tendency to take contested marks forward for some reason throughout the second half and that really hurt us, so I'm glad we set up for that not to happen.

I was sitting behind the Dogs goals on level three and in a perfect position to see how that last play unfolded with the Hawks kicking out. Our set up was OK, but it was clear the Hawks were going down the middle and we didn't do enough to stop it by narrowing our press to push them wide and give them and easy boundary option. We were too slow to open up the pockets/flanks.

The plan was fine, we just botched it. If we admit it as a team we'll be able to move on.

You can have it both ways surely? There's no need to open up the first 80m, just a sweeper or two from the forward line; we had several guys forward of the ball at the stoppage in question, they could have pushed two back without too much compromise. There was no contingency against non-containment and we had to provide one.

[jeemak]

You can have it both ways surely? There's no need to open up the first 80m, just a sweeper or two from the forward line; we had several guys forward of the ball at the stoppage in question, they could have pushed two back without too much compromise. There was no contingency against non-containment and we had to provide one.

I think I gave an answer to that, and that was push it wide by crowding the middle.

You can't give away anything within the first 40m aside from width. We left the middle open and we got burned because of it.

[jeemak]

The thing is, if you force it to the pockets and flanks you still have an opposition that needs to move the ball 150m to get to goal. If you leave the centre as an option you reduce that by a kick.

Once it's gone wide your defenders in the middle of the ground can adjust. If you're lucky it might go out of bounds. As a minimum the game gets slowed down a bit or the ball needs to hit the centre at some stage where it's more congested and you can bottle it up.

[Mantis]

I thought it was a free too. And the deliberate OOB paid against Suckling, from which Rioli scored a freak goal was a very poor decision. As I saw it Suckling was not in control of the ball and was actually pushed from behind and this caused the ball to cross the line.


Suckling chose to push the ball along rather than grab it.. At the time I thought he was hard done by, but having watched it a few times it was the correct decison... But our lead-up play which led to Suckling being in that position was horrible... JJ gathers the ball and starts to charge out of defecnce, doesn't have a clear passage out so handballs to a stationary Roughead, he panics and handballs well over Sucklin'g's head who forces the ball out.. Just a sloppy piece of play which put Suckling under more pressure than he needed to be.

[Sedat]

Our setup for the final play was fine. The absolute mung of a kick landing to Burgoyne was unlucky. He dropped it which was lucky. We just needed to lock it in and get 1 ball up so we could set up behind the ball. We had the players theres but we weren't smart enough.
I don't have a huge problem with our set-up - you can't gift-wrap Hawthorn 100 metres of easy field position by having the press too deep - but there was a major concentration lapse by a couple of our players in the press to let Sicily sneak out the back unchecked. There was some revealing footage of this passage of play 'On The Couch' last night - crap way to learn a lesson but we're very good at learning harsh lessons.

[always right]

Suckling chose to push the ball along rather than grab it.. At the time I thought he was hard done by, but having watched it a few times it was the correct decison... But our lead-up play which led to Suckling being in that position was horrible... JJ gathers the ball and starts to charge out of defecnce, doesn't have a clear passage out so handballs to a stationary Roughead, he panics and handballs well over Sucklin'g's head who forces the ball out.. Just a sloppy piece of play which put Suckling under more pressure than he needed to be.
I'm the reverse. I thought it was a free when I saw it live but changed my mind when the replay showed Rioli push Suckling as he was bent over the ball. No question it was a sloppy piece of play by our blokes.

[Mantis]

I don't have a huge problem with our set-up - you can't gift-wrap Hawthorn 100 metres of easy field position by having the press too deep - but there was a major concentration lapse by a couple of our players in the press to let Sicily sneak out the back unchecked. There was some revealing footage of this passage of play 'On The Couch' last night - crap way to learn a lesson but we're very good at learning harsh lessons.

There was, and it seemed that Adams was at fault, but I guess it's best that a 3rd gamer (and defensive group) learns a harsh lesson in rd 3 rather than in a more important game later in the season.

[Mantis]

I'm the reverse. I thought it was a free when I saw it live but changed my mind when the replay showed Rioli push Suckling as he was bent over the ball. No question it was a sloppy piece of play by our blokes.

It was a pretty soft push, but we had couple paid against us which were equally as soft.. One against JJ was farcical.

[KT31]

I didn't see how that could have been a free kick to Murphy. Bruest did well to affect the contest but from where I sat (level 1 middle of the ground outer side) and the footage I've seen of the contest between Bruest and Murphy looked ok and the injury innocuous. Bruest never looked to actually take hold of him for any length of time.

I didn't see to much in the Murphy one (:( & a emoticon with tears) , the Morris one in the goal square on the other hand.:mad:
Apparently if you wear a Hawks jumper you can just pick a player up and throw him to the side.:mad:

[merantau]

I didn't see to much in the Murphy one (:( & a emoticon with tears) , the Morris one in the goal square on the other hand.:mad:
Apparently if you wear a Hawks jumper you can just pick a player up and throw him to the side.:mad:

Now that you mention it, I remember that one. Those decisions come about because of a peculiar mental condition that affects AFL umpires only. It's called "Cognitive Dyslexia." Their initial cognition of what has transpired in an incident undergoes a 180 degree transposition in the time it takes for them to blow the whistle. It usually occurs in the opposition's forward 50 and, to date, no case of a defender benefiting from an umpire' "Cognitive Dyslexia" has been recorded.

[robb]

Whilst talking about umpires does anyone think that Bob should have got a free for holding when he did his knee?

[always right]

Whilst talking about umpires does anyone think that Bob should have got a free for holding when he did his knee?

Not me.

[jeemak]

Whilst talking about umpires does anyone think that Bob should have got a free for holding when he did his knee?

Read a few pages back, you'll see some do and some don't.

[1eyedog]

Whilst talking about umpires does anyone think that Bob should have got a free for holding when he did his knee?

Potentially, but would have been very technical. If the roles were reversed and it was paid a free against us I would have jumped the fence.

[Bulldog4life]

Our setup for the final play was fine. The absolute mung of a kick landing to Burgoyne was unlucky. He dropped it which was lucky. We just needed to lock it in and get 1 ball up so we could set up behind the ball. We had the players theres but we weren't smart enough.

Yep we had 5 players to their 3. That's where we lost it. But I am sure we will learn from that.

[bornadog]

Yep we had 5 players to their 3. That's where we lost it. But I am sure we will learn from that.
We lost it throughout the game by not nailing goals

[Bulldog4life]

We lost it throughout the game by not nailing goals

I am just talking about the last couple of minutes not the whole game.

[Bulldog4life]

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2016-04-12/dogs-trio-poll-coaches-votes


AFLCA Votes
Round 3 – Western Bulldogs v Hawthorn

8 – Luke Dahlhaus
8 – Ben Stratton
7 – Marcus Adams
5 – Caleb Daniel
2 – Sam Mitchell


AFLCA Award Overall Leaderboard
(as at the end of Round 3)

29 – Luke Parker (SYD)
22 – Tom Lynch (GCS)
21 – Robbie Gray (PA)
20 – Aaron Hall (GCS)
18 – Matt Priddis (WCE)
16 – Patrick Dangerfield (GEEL)
16 – Todd Goldstein (NM)
15 – Tom Mitchell (SYD)
14 – Jason Johannisen (WB)
14 – Sam Mitchell (HAW)
14 – David Zahrakis (ESS)

[Greystache]

Watching the replay finally the difference between the two teams on the weekend was our mids and half backs not working hard enough to work back deep into the defensive 50m. So many times Hawthorn got the ball deep inside their 50m under pressure but were able to kick the ball away from goal and hit up a free target to a player who'd worked into the forward 50m unopposed because their had stopped at the edge of the 50m and let their oppent be hit up unchallenged.

Defensive work rate cost us 5 or 6 goals. It was effort and work rate that cost the game.

[Ghost Dog]

Watched the replay again.

Plays that frustrated me in the first.
Biggs, who is usually quick, getting chased down by Puopolo - pure lack of vision, had plenty of time.
Koby Stevens hospital handpass to Toyd, with other options around. Koby gave away a few silly frees as well, not necessary. Same in the Carlton game, got pinged a few times for holding the man. Love his hard style but has to watch it.
Macrae, getting lauded for his silky skills then kicking it right to a Hawthorn player.
Suckling's bullet pass to Libba, who loops a ball to Stringer out wide, who has to change direction and slips.

Hawthorn did ok in the first half, but we helped them right along.

Plays I loved in the first half.
Caleb Daniel spoling Bruest with a fist in a high marking contest from behind!! ( 9:53)
Luke D does a heck of a lot of work off the ball. Put's the kicker under a lot of pressure when they are chipping it in their back half looking for an opening. It's hard to quantify that sort of act. One of the toughest players on our list. Continually copping intentional whacks.
Roughy's steal for an individual goal, our second. Not easy to be a stealthy ruckman!
Tom Boyd competes for the mark, two players on him, can't mark but spills to McClean, who gets free. Well done both players.

Leigh Matthews " Bulldogs just cannot get a precision kick inside 50" . Ball is thrown in, falls to Caleb who turns on a Dime so quickly I had to rewind to watch it, dishes off, Picken is on the boundary and hits Biggs on the lead in the 50. Lethal " Well, that was just random". And yet if you watch the Carlton game at 14:26, Liam did an identical kick from almost the same position and also found Luke.. He's really good at that sling kick across the body into the 50.