9000. What a farce.

[Twodogs]

9000 people turned out for today's game between us and GWS.

The experiment has failed. Time to close down GWS and send their players to proper football clubs before they drag he entire competition down around them.

[SlimPickens]

9000 people turned out for today's game between us and GWS.

The experiment has failed. Time to close down GWS and send their players to proper football clubs before they drag he entire competition down around them.

I highly doubt there was 9000 present. Joke of a synthetic club

[G-Mo77]

9000 people turned out for today's game between us and GWS.

The experiment has failed. Time to close down GWS and send their players to proper football clubs before they drag he entire competition down around them.

And the 6000 or so supporters get an arm chair ride with a solid foundation which could set them up for years. If they ever win a flag no one will care and it's going to backfire big time on the AFL overall.

[chef]

The AFL is going to spend 25 years getting this right. We all need to get used to it.

[Murphy'sLore]

I hate the Giants. They have sound effects instead of fans.

[AndrewP6]

Embarrassing. But the AFL will just pour more and more money into it so they can say it worked.

[G-Mo77]

The AFL is going to spend 25 years getting this right. We all need to get used to it.

I'd hate it to happen but on the other hand I'd like to see how this would damage the AFL if they made a dynasty out of this team. They get what they deserve for ignoring another state who actually follow football passionately.

[Twodogs]

And the 6000 or so supporters get an arm chair ride with a solid foundation which could set them up for years. If they ever win a flag no one will care and it's going to backfire big time on the AFL overall.

Yep. They will destroy the competition if we let them.


The AFL is going to spend 25 years getting this right. We all need to get used to it.

I doubt the the AFL commission will get 10 years to get it right. Its all been their way so far but things are changing.

[Flamethrower]

The AFL will keep pouring millions of dollars into the 3 lame duck franchises in Homebush, Brisbane and the Gold Coast until it destroys the competition.

[F'scary]

That is a crap crowd number given that they are going as well as any at the moment.

But like a lot of other stuff, our rulers will tell us all is well.

[bornadog]

9000 people turned out for today's game between us and GWS.

The experiment has failed. Time to close down GWS and send their players to proper football clubs before they drag he entire competition down around them.

Mostly consists of Bulldogs supporters who went up and relatives of players.

[Twodogs]

That is a crap crowd number given that they are going as well as any at the moment.

But like a lot of other stuff, our rulers will tell us all is well.

The easy way around that is don't let anyone rule you.

Or at least hold the rulers to account.

[Eastdog]

GWS = An AFL made team only a few years old with no passionate supporters and hardly any history

Our club the Bulldogs = A history of well over 100 years dating back to the 1880s and has passionate supporters

Sucks if they win a premiership before us. Would be great to knock them out in a final.

[SonofScray]

They are a farce of a 'club.'

I want them removed from existence, taking anyone associated with them as well. If not everyone, at least Sheedy.

[bulldogtragic]

If Footscray played Frankston in the televised VFL game this arvo it would've drawn more than 9,000. And no way there was 9,000 there at Spotless.

[Twodogs]

They are a farce of a 'club.'

I want them removed from existence, taking anyone associated with them as well. If not everyone, at least Sheedy.

Indeed. They would make a lovely footnote to the history of the competition. The relative no one remembers like University.

[Eastdog]

The AFL are putting money into NRL heartland and not into the true AFL heartland of Victoria.

NRL is popular in NSW and QLD. Outside of NSW and QLD there is only 1 team outside the traditional heartland the Storm and no NRL teams in SA and WA (both AFL mad like us in Victoria) and yet the AFL still want to pump money into there.

[whythelongface]

There were quite a few Bulldogs supporters there. There was a distinct lack of atmosphere (you would get more atmosphere at the local dishlicker track on a Saturday night) and it is embarrassing for the AFL and the club to have a team choc full of talent to play to such a miserly crowd. Western Sydney just doesn't get Australian Rules Football. Western Sydney doesn't need its own team in the AFL competition. They could have their own team in the Sydney Football League and get as many supporters.

Can you believe that some of their supporters actually believe they get a raw deal from the umps. Do they bloody realise the amount of high draft picks they have been granted - no suggestion from their supporters that they have been given significant preferential treatment. Not so much as an acknowledgemt.

[AndrewP6]

The AFL are putting money into NRL heartland and not into the true AFL heartland of Victoria.

NRL is popular in NSW and QLD. Outside of NSW and QLD there is only 1 team outside the traditional heartland the Storm and no NRL teams in SA and WA (both AFL mad like us in Victoria) and yet the AFL still want to pump money into there.
I've tweeted the AFL about it, and curiously they haven't responded. Yet they'll retweet anyone who is willing to pump their tyres.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It'll be a sad, sad day for AFL footy when GWS win the flag.

[kruder]

Th ground is going to be awful in winter. Absolute slow 6 at best!

[bulldogtragic]

It'll be a sad, sad day for AFL footy when GWS win the flag.

Sadder will be when it turns into modern day Brisbane after the compo and handouts stop and turns into an absolute basket case. And then the swag of premierships mean even less than Lance Armstrong's 7 tours.

[SonofScray]

if they make the GF, I will shower them in pigs blood during the GF parade.

[anfo27]

Might as well put a team in China. The tv rights would sky rocket & Gill will get a huge bonus. Just need to adjust the figures to make it look like its working. So if 100 people rock up you just add two zero's and all of a sudden 10,000 showed up to watch the new Chinese franchise. Unfortunately to the people that matter its all about money. Gill gets a bigger bonus if there is a team in Western Sydney than Hobart. Its not better for the game but its better for their pockets.
Its true what they say, the older you get the more cynical you get.

[Eastdog]

I've tweeted the AFL about it, and curiously they haven't responded. Yet they'll retweet anyone who is willing to pump their tyres.

Yes interesting. I think it is a very good question.

[bulldogtragic]

Might as well put a team in China. The tv rights would sky rocket & Gill will get a huge bonus. Just need to adjust the figures to make it look like its working. So if 100 people rock up you just add two zero's and all of a sudden 10,000 showed up to watch the new Chinese franchise. Unfortunately to the people that matter its all about money. Gill gets a bigger bonus if there is a team in Western Sydney than Hobart. Its not better for the game but its better for their pockets.
Its true what they say, the older you get the more cynical you get.

Great thinking. But that would work. Just get the Red Army to march a few prison camps population in at every game an pack the joint out. Would look like a sell out every week. With Nike & Apple manufacturing in China the AFL could get an injection tens or hundreds of millions in new ways of partnering with them. This isn't cynical, it's genius.

[hujsh]

It'd be cheaper to pay locals to turn up to the game in China than it is to pay people to watch GWS now. If you don't want to risk the aforementioned forced labour camps damaging the brands reputation.

[LostDoggy]

Going against the tide here, but if I were an AFL commissioner and charged with the responsibility of growing the game, I'd do pretty much exactly what the AFL are doing with GWS.

I have moved to central west NSW in the past 2 years and am shocked at how much the NRL is seriously on the nose in it's heartland. People who loved the game for decades are walking away en masse.

The region covering Western Sydney to Canberra/Riverina makes up over 20% of Australia's population and is ripe for the picking. The AFL's investment into the region is a no brainer.

[jeemak]

I don't mind the growth strategy including the area you mention, agree PP it makes sense.

My issue is with the short changing of the competitive landscape which is the biproduct the AFL's growth strategy. What competition that has integrity massively favours its own investment over its other key stakeholders (and major revenue sources) and expects everyone to stomach it? There will be significant backlash against the GWS rise at club and supporter level, I think even though this is expected the magnitude of it won't be realised until it happens.

The competition has borderline integrity as it is due to the fixed sequence in which the teams play. Engineering premierships for soulless company owned (see private label products in super markets) products is a stupid and short sighted strategy that won't build any sort of loyalty to a club in the region, and will only make the competition more bereft of integrity in the process.

If you wanted a better example of why business is conducted at the peril of executives with lucrative short term incentives you only have to look at the AFL expansion model. The quality and integrity of the competition has been sold out completely at the expense of short term financial gain. Nobody is going to give a shit about a club that has been gift wrapped some success, and suffers its eventual slide - people will turn off watching and the AFL will go back to the drawing board.

[Twodogs]

This is a true story. In the early years of the Sydney Swans, mid '80s. We'd gone up for the game and were standing outside the SCG having a smoke when a blue coat walked out of the ground and threw a bunch of tickets he had on the ground and a bunch of people standing around walked over and picked one up each. My dad asked the blue coat why he threw the tickets on the ground and he said "so I can truthfully say that we didn't hand out any free tickets"

[Eastdog]

Going against the tide here, but if I were an AFL commissioner and charged with the responsibility of growing the game, I'd do pretty much exactly what the AFL are doing with GWS.

I have moved to central west NSW in the past 2 years and am shocked at how much the NRL is seriously on the nose in it's heartland. People who loved the game for decades are walking away en masse.

The region covering Western Sydney to Canberra/Riverina makes up over 20% of Australia's population and is ripe for the picking. The AFL's investment into the region is a no brainer.

The A League team Western Sydney Wanderers is certainly taking hold there which makes it tough for the AFL in that area. Deep down most NSW folk are still more into the NRL. Over there I'd imagine AFL in the sports news doesn't get much of a look in like NRL hardly does in Victoria.

[The bulldog tragician]

They lack soul. They are bullet points in a strategic plan.

A couple of years ago I had a social media interaction with a woman from their cheer squad who in all seriousness thanked us for 'giving' them Callan Ward. Then today one of their ' diehards' decided to jibe about us not having won a flag since 54.

The thought that they could win a flag before us - a real possibility - just sickens me completely. The G would be filled with nothing but corporates and empty suits.

[Twodogs]

They lack soul. They are bullet points in a strategic plan.

A couple of years ago I had a social media interaction with a woman from their cheer squad who in all seriousness thanked us for 'giving' them Callan Ward. Then today one of their ' diehards' decided to jibe about us not having won a flag since 54.

The thought that they could win a flag before us - a real possibility - just sickens me completely. The G would be filled with nothing but corporates and empty suits.

I think that is the dream of AFL head office.

[Mantis]

People in Sydney, especially Western Sydney don't attend live sport.. It's just fact.

We keep hearing that Western Sydney has 2+ mil population yet the WSW average less than 14,000 per game and the rugby league teams less than 10k.

The AFL are banking the cheques from the broadcast rights and that's all they care about.

[Twodogs]

People in Sydney, especially Western Sydney don't attend live sport.. It's just fact.

We keep hearing that Western Sydney has 2+ mil population yet the WSW average less than 14,000 per game and the rugby league teams less than 10k.

The AFL are banking the cheques from the broadcast rights and that's all they care about.

Yep. Running the games future down in order to fatten the bonus the AFL heads receive.

[LostDoggy]

What happens come finals time? Do they get to play a final at their home ground?

[G-Mo77]

What happens come finals time? Do they get to play a final at their home ground?

Yep. Fortunately if it's against us we'll outnumber them 3 to 1 so it'll be a virtual home ground.

[LostDoggy]

Yep. Fortunately if it's against us we'll outnumber them 3 to 1 so it'll be a virtual home ground.

Even if its a prelim? 15,000 to an AFL prelim has disaster written all over it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Sadder will be when it turns into modern day Brisbane after the compo and handouts stop and turns into an absolute basket case. And then the swag of premierships mean even less than Lance Armstrong's 7 tours.

That's a good point. Them winning a flag would feel quite similar to old Lance....i mean being gifted all those draft picks creates a massive unfair advantage and unlevel playing field.

I've watched every grand final since i can remember being alive! The day GWS are there i won't be tuning in (unless we are playing of course!)

Can you imagine the grand final parade? Especially if its against an interstate side? That's not going to be a good look for the game at all. I think the most irrelevant grand final in the games history was Port v Brisbane. That would look historic compared to a GWS flag. I would seriously barrack for the Pies if they played off against the giants in the grand final. Its a bit of the 'original' 16 vs the plastics at the moment.

The AFL is digging its own grave with this one.

[jeemak]

Yep. Fortunately if it's against us we'll outnumber them 3 to 1 so it'll be a virtual home ground.


Even if its a prelim? 15,000 to an AFL prelim has disaster written all over it.

That's the AFL's ideal scenario.

Give us a better chance at being kicked, whilst doing all things possible to see GWS make a grand final.

[The Pie Man]

Even if its a prelim? 15,000 to an AFL prelim has disaster written all over it.

At least the ground will look more full on TV.

The GWS thing doesn't bother me that much - still think they missed an opportunity with choosing orange/charcoal instead of sky blue, but whatever. I'm way more concerned with the GC, which as an area is a sporting graveyard, despite the population growth.

[Twodogs]

What happens come finals time? Do they get to play a final at their home ground?


GWS have to make the finals first. Granted if they miss them and finish say 10th then the AFL will probably extend the finals out to a final ten.

[Sedat]

Give them their due - they nailed the club song. Would have everyone in Khazakstan dancing in the streets.

[whythelongface]

Going against the tide here, but if I were an AFL commissioner and charged with the responsibility of growing the game, I'd do pretty much exactly what the AFL are doing with GWS.

I have moved to central west NSW in the past 2 years and am shocked at how much the NRL is seriously on the nose in it's heartland. People who loved the game for decades are walking away en masse.

The region covering Western Sydney to Canberra/Riverina makes up over 20% of Australia's population and is ripe for the picking. The AFL's investment into the region is a no brainer.

I would say that the experience that I have is completely different. I work in Parramatta in the heartland of Rugby League and the game itself is still strong - there of course are issues with the NRL board and individual club boards (Parramatta) in particular but the area is still RL heartland. There is little conversation around the AFL with the NRL being the main talking point.

Average crowd numbers are decent for RL for those teams in the western suburbs of Sydney - someone mentioned < 10K but in actual fact of the four teams that comprise the heartland of the western suburbs the average attendance this year is around the 15,690 (Canterbury 18,169; Parramatta 17,976; Penrith 10,914 and West Tigers 18,706) mark. Small compared to AFL but decent for RL. Only one of those teams plays at a stadium that holds > 25,000 (that being Canterbury who play at ANZ stadium). Crowd numbers are up for this year. TV numbers for NRL are decent as well.

The largest crowd that the GWS at their home base of Spotless was just under 20,000 against Sydney with the Hawthorn game attracting 13,000. You would think that playing against the reigning premiers would, particularly with the club travelling well, that they would have cracked at least 20,000.

In reality Australian Rules Football does, and always, will struggle with a foothold in this territory. I understand the objectives of the AFL in trying to garner support from this region, however I just don't believe that the public will resonate with the GWS, even if they win the flag multiple times. I understand they want to make the game truly national but feel they would be better served at looking at areas other than the Western Sydney Region.

[Sedat]

In reality Australian Rules Football does, and always, will struggle with a foothold in this territory. I understand the objectives of the AFL in trying to garner support from this region, however I just don't believe that the public will resonate with the GWS, even if they win the flag multiple times. I understand they want to make the game truly national but feel they would be better served at looking at areas other than the Western Sydney Region.
As Mantis pointed out, Western Sydney is a key strategic plank with regard to TV rights and advertising revenue. It's not just about having 9 games a week - the region is ripe with major corporations and subsequent advertising revenue opportunities, and as we all know filthy lucre is the only God that City Hall bows to.

[whythelongface]

As Mantis pointed out, Western Sydney is a key strategic plank with regard to TV rights and advertising revenue. It's not just about having 9 games a week - the region is ripe with major corporations and subsequent advertising revenue opportunities, and as we all know filthy lucre is the only God that City Hall bows to.

All well and good, but if you have a product that the demographic you are targeting aren't buying you surely need to scrap it. How long can the AFL support a product that is not generating any profit from their return? Will corporate giants continue to support a club that provides them with little exposure when an average of 11,000 people see their advertising once a fortnight. Will other clubs continue to support the AFL in trying to prop up both the GWS and the Gold Coast? Unless supporter numbers rise significantly in the short term I just can't see how they will continue to exist.

[Twodogs]

I would say that the experience that I have is completely different. I work in Parramatta in the heartland of Rugby League and the game itself is still strong - there of course are issues with the NRL board and individual club boards (Parramatta) in particular but the area is still RL heartland. There is little conversation around the AFL with the NRL being the main talking point.

Average crowd numbers are decent for RL for those teams in the western suburbs of Sydney - someone mentioned < 10K but in actual fact of the four teams that comprise the heartland of the western suburbs the average attendance this year is around the 15,690 (Canterbury 18,169; Parramatta 17,976; Penrith 10,914 and West Tigers 18,706) mark. Small compared to AFL but decent for RL. Only one of those teams plays at a stadium that holds > 25,000 (that being Canterbury who play at ANZ stadium). Crowd numbers are up for this year. TV numbers for NRL are decent as well.

The largest crowd that the GWS at their home base of Spotless was just under 20,000 against Sydney with the Hawthorn game attracting 13,000. You would think that playing against the reigning premiers would, particularly with the club travelling well, that they would have cracked at least 20,000.

In reality Australian Rules Football does, and always, will struggle with a foothold in this territory. I understand the objectives of the AFL in trying to garner support from this region, however I just don't believe that the public will resonate with the GWS, even if they win the flag multiple times. I understand they want to make the game truly national but feel they would be better served at looking at areas other than the Western Sydney Region.


Really good post. Hot the nail on the head.

The problem is there are far less people in Sydney into sport than there are in Melbourne.

[Sedat]

All well and good, but if you have a product that the demographic you are targeting aren't buying you surely need to scrap it. How long can the AFL support a product that is not generating any profit from their return? Will corporate giants continue to support a club that provides them with little exposure when an average of 11,000 people see their advertising once a fortnight. Will other clubs continue to support the AFL in trying to prop up both the GWS and the Gold Coast? Unless supporter numbers rise significantly in the short term I just can't see how they will continue to exist.
I'm no expert in TV rights revenue but what if the presence of a team in Western Sydney was responsible for an extra 5-10% in TV rights revenue due to the ability of the AFL to on-sell advertising space? Their level of investment into the team could then be justified under such clinical numbers-based analysis.

Doesn't make it any less authentic or contrived, but then City Hall doesn't really care about that. They know the vast majority of us in the Southern States are rusted-on for life, and they are just in it to gouge as much as they can out of the pig's trough.

[whythelongface]

I'm no expert in TV rights revenue but what if the presence of a team in Western Sydney was responsible for an extra 5-10% in TV rights revenue due to the ability of the AFL to on-sell advertising space? Their level of investment into the team could then be justified under such clinical numbers-based analysis.

Doesn't make it any less authentic or contrived, but then City Hall doesn't really care about that. They know the vast majority of us in the Southern States are rusted-on for life, and they are just in it to gouge as much as they can out of the pig's trough.

Good point - that seems to be the case with 202,000 watching yesterday's game nationally. That is 202,000 more viewers than they wouldn't have if GWS weren't playing. It would be interesting to note the free to air numbers and how many viewers are actually from Western Sydney.

[bornadog]

I'm no expert in TV rights revenue but what if the presence of a team in Western Sydney was responsible for an extra 5-10% in TV rights revenue due to the ability of the AFL to on-sell advertising space? Their level of investment into the team could then be justified under such clinical numbers-based analysis.

Doesn't make it any less authentic or contrived, but then City Hall doesn't really care about that. They know the vast majority of us in the Southern States are rusted-on for life, and they are just in it to gouge as much as they can out of the pig's trough.

Stick them in Tassie and you get the same revenue. The only thing is AFL want a game a week broadcast in NSW and QLD with their teams.

[BulldogBelle]

My disclaimer up front: I hate the confected nature of GWS and GC, and the thought of them getting an arm chair ride to a flag makes my guts turn.

But the business decision making would go something like this...

The inclusion of 2 new teams (regardless of their location) increases the games in a season by 12.5%. If income generated overall increase by more than they invest in the new sides, then it is a decent investment. Say the league generates $400m a year across all lines of revenue (this I suspect is less than actual), then the inclusion of these two teams adds ~$50m a year to the league collectively. So long as head office is pumping less than this amount into them annually, its a fair investment.

Now, in the afl's forward planning, they would've modeled some modest gains in support, patronage, sponsorhips for the new clubs which would require lesser and lesser funding from head office, and voiala, the afl has increased their earnings over the medium term and have probably not been out of pocket in the near term. The expansion is entirely self funded.

If we could all build business models that did this we'd be laughing

[Sedat]

Stick them in Tassie and you get the same revenue. The only thing is AFL want a game a week broadcast in NSW and QLD with their teams.
Would you? I suspect that if you would there would not be a GWS. Tasmania is a very small market place with limited corporate growth potential - and it is already being catered for by Hawthorn and Norf. You won't be growing the pie by fielding a team down there - only shifting the revenue already being generated by Hawthorn and Norf over to a new Tassie team. I don't like it but that's the argument for Western Sydney - it is virgin unchartered territory that is incremental growth to the existing base (of which Tassie is already a part of).

[LostDoggy]

Underwhelming crowd and little to no atmosphere.

Talked to a couple of people yesterday, one didn't realise GWS was a thing, the other thought GWS and GCS were the same thing.

[bornadog]

Would you? I suspect that if you would there would not be a GWS. Tasmania is a very small market place with limited corporate growth potential - and it is already being catered for by Hawthorn and Norf. You won't be growing the pie by fielding a team down there - only shifting the revenue already being generated by Hawthorn and Norf over to a new Tassie team. I don't like it but that's the argument for Western Sydney - it is virgin unchartered territory that is incremental growth to the existing base (of which Tassie is already a part of).

Still have 18 teams and broadcasting rights. Hawks and North would still be able to play their, perhaps fewer games.

[Sedat]

Still have 18 teams and broadcasting rights. Hawks and North would still be able to play their, perhaps fewer games.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the size of the broadcasting rights revenue be predicated on 1) the TV ratings in the 5 key metro cities (of which Tassie is not one and Sydney most certainly is), and 2) the ability of the broadcasters to on-sell advertising revenue at a higher rate and into more lucrative markets (such as Sydney)? Tassie is 2/5 of bugger-all in terms of national TV ratings and they are a miniscule source of corporate advertising opportunities that are already being catered for by existing teams. You're not growing the pie one sliver by establishing a Tassie team but you are by plonking a new team into the unchartered waters of Western Sydney.

This is cold-hearted economics talking - I don't like it either.

[bornadog]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the size of the broadcasting rights revenue be predicated on 1) the TV ratings in the 5 key metro cities (of which Tassie is not one and Sydney most certainly is), and 2) the ability of the broadcasters to on-sell advertising revenue at a higher rate and into more lucrative markets (such as Sydney)? Tassie is 2/5 of bugger-all in terms of national TV ratings and they are a miniscule source of corporate advertising opportunities that are already being catered for by existing teams. You're not growing the pie one sliver by establishing a Tassie team but you are by plonking a new team into the unchartered waters of Western Sydney.

This is cold-hearted economics talking - I don't like it either.

yeah you are probably right.

Love to see the figures for TV viewing audience of GWS games - NSW only

[Twodogs]

My disclaimer up front: I hate the confected nature of GWS and GC, and the thought of them getting an arm chair ride to a flag makes my guts turn.

But the business decision making would go something like this...

The inclusion of 2 new teams (regardless of their location) increases the games in a season by 12.5%. If income generated overall increase by more than they invest in the new sides, then it is a decent investment. Say the league generates $400m a year across all lines of revenue (this I suspect is less than actual), then the inclusion of these two teams adds ~$50m a year to the league collectively. So long as head office is pumping less than this amount into them annually, its a fair investment.

Now, in the afl's forward planning, they would've modeled some modest gains in support, patronage, sponsorhips for the new clubs which would require lesser and lesser funding from head office, and voiala, the afl has increased their earnings over the medium term and have probably not been out of pocket in the near term. The expansion is entirely self funded.

If we could all build business models that did this we'd be laughing

We all hate them. Truth be told they probably hate themselves for not winning enough all ready.

Couldn't the growth be accounted for by expanding the number of rounds played in a season?

[Twodogs]

I'm no expert in TV rights revenue but what if the presence of a team in Western Sydney was responsible for an extra 5-10% in TV rights revenue due to the ability of the AFL to on-sell advertising space? Their level of investment into the team could then be justified under such clinical numbers-based analysis.

Doesn't make it any less authentic or contrived, but then City Hall doesn't really care about that. They know the vast majority of us in the Southern States are rusted-on for life, and they are just in it to gouge as much as they can out of the pig's trough.

We love the game, not the competition. The AFL would do well to remember that and not confuse the two or people will lose interest in droves. There are plenty of football clubs in other competitions that people are enthusiastic about.

[Ozza]

Playing devils advocate (just for the sport of it....I hate the expansion clubs like everyone else)....

But GWS are still in their infancy really. They are yet to play a final, and to my knowledge (and I may be wrong) have never played a Friday night game in their existence. Like the Suns, they are almost always thrown into the worst slots for the weekend - heaps of Saturday 4:40 games etc. So they still really haven't had that period where they have a chance to gather some extra support via exposure.

Sydney had some years where they were really really struggling to get crowds at their matches, but over time, exposure and ultimately, success - they developed a following that sees them now as a successful club that averages over 30,000 at home games year in year out. GWS will never be near as popular as Sydney - but don't underestimate the drawing power of success.

For me, GWS has a far greater chance of making it as a club than Gold Coast do. Malthouse was on the money last week when he said that every sporting venture into Gold Coast has been a failure. Pair that, with what a shambles they are in terms of their football department - and its a much bigger issue than the giants.

[FrediKanoute]

AGree with Ozza, the main worry is GCS. The leg up has failed. They are almost going to have to start from scratch when really this year and next year they should have been peaking.

[Twodogs]

AGree with Ozza, the main worry is GCS. The leg up has failed. They are almost going to have to start from scratch when really this year and next year they should have been peaking.

It says everything about tge Gold Coast and perceptions that I can't look at that sentence think of the place we are discussing and not smirk. There are plenty peaking on the Gold Coast.

[SonofScray]

Couldn't the growth be accounted for by expanding the number of rounds played in a season?

There's a novel idea. Play everyone twice, once at home and once away. Extra gate takings and fixture issue solved.

[Twodogs]

There's a novel idea. Play everyone twice, once at home and once away. Extra gate takings and fixture issue solved.


It couldn't be that simple surely? The solution must involve opening franchises in areas where nobody is interested in your product, pouring all available resources into the bottomless squeaky wheel pit that creates thereby thinning out resources that supply actual vital arms of your organisation and finishing up alienating and estranging the tradional supporter base and rusting them off. Surely?

[hujsh]

It couldn't be that simple surely? The solution must involve opening franchises in areas where nobody is interested in your product, pouring all available resources into the bottomless squeaky wheel pit that creates thereby thinning out resources that supply actual vital arms of your organisation and finishing up alienating and estranging the tradional supporter base and rusting them off. Surely?

Introducing the FNQ Waves, the Parramatta Hellos, the Wagga-Wagga Top-Blokes and the Heinekin presesnts the Bundaberg Purples. Lets all get excited for the future of the AFL!

Of course the top 30 picks of the next 12 drafts are now accounted for to give these teams an even playing field. And they have an extra 13 million each to sign existing players from current clubs (excluding GWS, GCS or Sydney of course)