Goalkicking

[comrade]

My favourite topic rears its ugly head in the following article:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/stats-insider-how-western-bulldogs-geelong-cats-have-been-most-hurt-by-inaccurate-goalkicking-expected-scores/news-story/412000efb3bf418c2596d17bc7883b02

Definitely felt like the Giants were kicking them out of every orifice and we couldn't hit the side of a barn door.

11-0 would've been nice.

[jazzadogs]

That's the sort of article and analysis that I love to read. But I also hate it, because it shows how much we are letting a simple skill dictate our season.

[Twodogs]

That's the sort of article and analysis that I love to read. But I also hate it, because it shows how much we are letting a simple skill dictate our season.

Frustrating isn't it? I watch our blokes take a set shot and they run in from angles, stop start or stutter their run in or spin the ball in their hands and yell to myself "Do it *!*!*!*!ing properly"

In Rugby League they have a saying "respect the ball". AFL players would do well to learn the saying and understand what it means.

[bornadog]

Is there a stat showing missed goals from set shots?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Is there more to the fact that last year we were ranked 4th in the comp for points scored? Our points against also wasn't that great amongst top 8 sides.

Why the 180 flip this year in terms of offence and defence?

[Mofra]

Is there more to the fact that last year we were ranked 4th in the comp for points scored? Our points against also wasn't that great amongst top 8 sides.

Why the 180 flip this year in terms of offence and defence?
We dominated Adelaide last year in every category except where it mattered, our lack of accuracy has already cost us.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Here is the gist of the article.

For all of the planning pre game and in the coaches’ box, even the master tacticians of the AFL can’t help when their team just can’t kick straight.
For Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge, that has been extremely apparent in 2016 — because his side should be undefeated.
Analysis from AFL stat gurus Champion Data reveals that nine games this season have been decided by goalkicking. They use a metric called ‘expected score’, which analyses each scoring shot based on difficulty and gives it a value based on how often you would expect a team to goal from that spot on the ground.
By comparing a game’s expected score to the actual score, we can then confirm what you can already see when you look at the scoreboard some weeks — teams that kick poorly while their opponents kick straight can cost themselves the game.
Remarkably, three of the nine matches decided this season by goalkicking were the Bulldogs’ three losses.

Against Hawthorn in Round 3, the Dogs fell by three points while recording two extra scoring shots — they should have won by seven points.
Then against North Melbourne in Round 6 it was the same story. The Bulldogs had one fewer scoring shot than the Kangaroos but had higher-quality chances, meaning in a game they lost by 16 points, they should have won by eight.
The Round 9 loss to GWS is perhaps the most surprising. The Dogs were seemingly soundly beaten, losing 15.8 (98) to 10.13 (73). But the visitors had same number of scoring chances as the Giants and better ones too, meaning that if they had kicked as expected, the Bulldogs would’ve gotten over the line by four points.


It's something in our game we REALLY need to work on. Most of our wins this year should have been bigger too. Giving us a healthier percentage.
Then there's the beautifully constructed forward entries that fizzle out into zero scores from stuffing around with the ball.

[Remi Moses]

Interesting hearing Brereton on the fox round table saying that not converting our dominance we are prone to a team winning in a few minutes . Tend to agree to an extent, but he failed to see that our set shot kicking in particular has hurt us.
I think we kicked 3 7 on Sunday from set shots

[Mofra]

Interesting hearing Brereton on the fox round table saying that not converting our dominance we are prone to a team winning in a few minutes .
West Coast kicked 3 goals to get within 3 points last weekend despite us winning almost everywhere else around the ground.
And that's with Stringer kicking a freaky one from the boundary.

[1eyedog]

Interesting hearing Brereton on the fox round table saying that not converting our dominance we are prone to a team winning in a few minutes . Tend to agree to an extent, but he failed to see that our set shot kicking in particular has hurt us.
I think we kicked 3 7 on Sunday from set shots

It's pretty clear if we miss opportunities we keep the opposition in the game regardless how much we dominate the KPIs.

[GVGjr]

For Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge, that has been extremely apparent in 2016 — because his side should be undefeated.

I don't think this is a fact based comment. From the limited time I have seen the boys train there is still no real urgency or focus on set shot conversion so I don't think it's given the time it needs. I'd even say that some players have gone backwards with this skill and we also seem to have one highly talented player looking to distribute the ball to anyone else rather than take the shot himself.

Would we have won 11 games? I'm not convinced, but my fear is it will cost us when it counts. I think we have to accept it's not a strength of ours and hope it will be addressed in the off season.

[Twodogs]

I don't think this is a fact based comment. From the limited time I have seen the boys train there is still no real urgency or focus on set shot conversion so I don't think it's given the time it needs. I'd even say that some players have gone backwards with this skill and we also seem to have one highly talented player looking to distribute the ball to anyone else rather than take the shot himself.

Would we have won 11 games? I'm not convinced, but my fear is it will cost us when it counts. I think we have to accept it's not a strength of ours and hope it will be addressed in the off season.

Will it though? It was a problem last year too. When it comes to goal kickers we are all over the place. We have one top line converter, a couple are not bad but the others are a bit like the keystone cops coming up with all sorts of humorous methods of trying to get the ball through the goals.

And I'll keep saying it. We don't have to wait until the off season to teach anyone how to kick the ball properly. It's a simple process.

[Torpedo]

Will it though? It was a problem last year too. When it comes to goal kickers we are all over the place. We have one top line converter, a couple are not bad but the others are a bit like the keystone cops coming up with all sorts of humorous methods of trying to get the ball through the goals.


And one player who refuses to shoot for goal. I love his toughness, run and skill but Jack Macrae would rather kick it anywhere (and can) than line up the goals and pot it. Think he kicked a goal in round one but has since gone back to handing it off whenever he is in range. Very disappointing for a talented player.

[Twodogs]

And one player who refuses to shoot for goal. I love his toughness, run and skill but Jack Macrae would rather kick it anywhere (and can) than line up the goals and pot it. Think he kicked a goal in round one but has since gone back to handing it off whenever he is in range. Very disappointing for a talented player.

I really only played footy to have shots at goal. I can't understand letting somebody else get the credit.

I would have been pushing teammates out the way to get my hands on the ball in range.:)

[Eastdog]

Yes this I agree is not a strong area of ours. The question is can players be taught this skill from a coach or is it just innate in the players. Jack Redpath has been really good up forward taking some nice marks this year but a few times his goalkicking hasn't been great. Lachie Hunter has been really good lately but I remember in the game day thread a few weeks back against the Giants I think it was we were very critical of his conversion at goal.

My brother is a Pies supporter but we were talking about the Dogs and he said that while defensive we have conceded very little our for is average 92 and we need to have it around 100 if we are a chance for the flag. Maybe we might be the exception and win it without average around 100.

[GVGjr]

Will it though? It was a problem last year too. When it comes to goal kickers we are all over the place. We have one top line converter, a couple are not bad but the others are a bit like the keystone cops coming up with all sorts of humorous methods of trying to get the ball through the goals.

And I'll keep saying it. We don't have to wait until the off season to teach anyone how to kick the ball properly. It's a simple process.


If we were to lose a critical game later in the season due to an erratic performance I think it would leave us no other option than to regroup and take it more seriously.

[jazzadogs]

And that is why goalkicking is so important. Sure we missed some opportunities late, but the accuracy of Redpath and others contributed to our early dominance. And Port's 2.4 in the second helped us out.

Swings and roundabouts ey?

[GVGjr]

And that is why goalkicking is so important. Sure we missed some opportunities late, but the accuracy of Redpath and others contributed to our early dominance. And Port's 2.4 in the second helped us out.

Swings and roundabouts ey?

I think the point isn't just about accurate kicking it's about missing the easy goals and we are still under par in that regard.
We miss more than we should.

[Twodogs]

If we were to lose a critical game later in the season due to an erratic performance I think it would leave us no other option than to regroup and take it more seriously.

Like it did in the final against Adelaide last year? It's already cost us a final. What has to happen to get them to notice it?

Missing the winning goal from the goal square in the Grand Final?

[SonofScray]

We still missed some easy ones yesterday but on balance yesterday felt like a game where we nailed the ones we had to. Accuracy from Redpath and Dickson set the tone perhaps?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I'm taking over goal kicking practice as of now. Every shot needs to be undertaken as if in game time with a man on the mark.
Our main goal kickers will practice daily for 30 mins with the ball lowered with the relevant hand as close to the foot as possible, with the ball in line with the relevant leg hence foot and with the head leaning forward towards said foot. Drill it, drill after drill. Rote learning and get the feel of the rhythm of the leg as pendulum following through high towards the gap between the goal posts.
Seriously it can't be that hard to teach. All professional golfers get instructions on their swing. It should be the same for goal kickers. It must be part of ongoing training including preseason.

[Twodogs]

I'm taking over goal kicking practice as of now. Every shot needs to be undertaken as if in game time with a man on the mark.
Our main goal kickers will practice daily for 30 mins with the ball lowered with the relevant hand as close to the foot as possible, with the ball in line with the relevant leg hence foot and with the head leaning forward towards said foot. Drill it, drill after drill. Rote learning and get the feel of the rhythm of the leg as pendulum following through high towards the gap between the goal posts.
Seriously it can't be that hard to teach. All professional golfers get instructions on their swing. It should be the same for goal kickers. It must be part of ongoing training including preseason.


Damn straight. You've got the job.

[Stefcep]

Yes this I agree is not a strong area of ours. The question is can players be taught this skill from a coach or is it just innate in the players. Jack Redpath has been really good up forward taking some nice marks this year but a few times his goalkicking hasn't been great. Lachie Hunter has been really good lately but I remember in the game day thread a few weeks back against the Giants I think it was we were very critical of his conversion at goal.

My brother is a Pies supporter but we were talking about the Dogs and he said that while defensive we have conceded very little our for is average 92 and we need to have it around 100 if we are a chance for the flag. Maybe we might be the exception and win it without average around 100.

Yes its the 100 point rule. Get it before your opponent, and you will win far more than you will lose.

Its obvious even without the "analysis" that kicking for goal has cost us games. The other thing is we work very hard for our goals-we don't get many cheap ones.

The good thing is we are now winning the close ones but.

[Stefcep]

I'm taking over goal kicking practice as of now. Every shot needs to be undertaken as if in game time with a man on the mark.
Our main goal kickers will practice daily for 30 mins with the ball lowered with the relevant hand as close to the foot as possible, with the ball in line with the relevant leg hence foot and with the head leaning forward towards said foot. Drill it, drill after drill. Rote learning and get the feel of the rhythm of the leg as pendulum following through high towards the gap between the goal posts.
Seriously it can't be that hard to teach. All professional golfers get instructions on their swing. It should be the same for goal kickers. It must be part of ongoing training including preseason.

Its not just us. Matthew Lloyd believes kicking skills have gone backwards.

[comrade]

Footy is so much better to watch when we kick set shots. Nothing worse in a game of footy than dominating for large stretches and completely ballsing up shot after shot. On the flip side, there's nothing better than being under the pump but nailing everything and staying in the game.

If this isn't just a one week aberration and we've turned the corner with our forward 50 efficiency (both kicking for goal and hitting lead up targets), look out!

[Bulldog4life]

Footy is so much better to watch when we kick set shots. Nothing worse in a game of footy than dominating for large stretches and completely ballsing up shot after shot. On the flip side, there's nothing better than being under the pump but nailing everything and staying in the game.

If this isn't just a one week aberration and we've turned the corner with our forward 50 efficiency (both kicking for goal and hitting lead up targets), look out!

Agree. Those set shots from Jack close to the fifty metre line were fantastic to watch and real team lifters.

[bornadog]

Not just us with Goal kicking issues

Most recent V/AFL season with shot at goal accuracy above 50%...


2023 - Cats, Demons, Dockers, Pies, Roos, Swans
2022 - Eagles, Hawks, Lions, Tigers
2021 -
2020 -
2019 -
2018 -
2017 - Crows, Suns
2016 - GWS, Port, Saints
2015 - Dogs
2014 -
2013 -
2012 -
2011 - Dons
2010 - Blues

[bulldogtragic]

So you’re saying it’s Bevo’s fault it? Or BMAC put more effort in??? :D

Shithouse company we are keeping. Just shit. House.

[Bulldog Joe]

Not just us with Goal kicking issues

Most recent V/AFL season with shot at goal accuracy above 50%...


2023 - Cats, Demons, Dockers, Pies, Roos, Swans
2022 - Eagles, Hawks, Lions, Tigers
2021 -
2020 -
2019 -
2018 -
2017 - Crows, Suns
2016 - GWS, Port, Saints
2015 - Dogs
2014 -
2013 -
2012 -
2011 - Dons
2010 - Blues

Nice timing to post.
How did Geelong and Sydney fare last night?

[bornadog]

Nice timing to post.
How did Geelong and Sydney fare last night?
Stuffed it right up

[bulldogtragic]

Today:

AFEL: 16.6
VFL: 17.6

Total: 33.12 (nearly 75%)

WTF?

[Bulldog Joe]

Today:

AFEL: 16.6
VFL: 17.6

Total: 33.12 (nearly 75%)

WTF?
Must be a mistake

[bornadog]

I still believe goal kicking is all in the head. The guys will practise at training and may slot through 10 out of 10, but come to a match the pressure is on.

[ledge]

Today:

AFEL: 16.6
VFL: 17.6

Total: 33.12 (nearly 75%)

WTF?

We had a bad day . No doubt all goal kickers will be disciplined over the inconsistency we have shown this week.

[azabob]

Interesting, very interesting indeed.


https://youtu.be/TnIktL5zOmM

[MrMahatma]

Interesting, very interesting indeed.


https://youtu.be/TnIktL5zOmM

Someone in the gameday thread pointed that out at the time. Not sure who. I presume the gameday thread gets archived as soon as the siren goes, and can't be looked at again.

Anyway... it's either a 1 off or a strange inconsistency.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's really bizarre. Surely Marra would feel the difference in his hands before he kicks it. Perhaps it's a sign he was focused on other parts of his routine.

You wonder if it's something our coaches pick up and then address with him.

[GVGjr]

It's really bizarre. Surely Marra would feel the difference in his hands before he kicks it. Perhaps it's a sign he was focused on other parts of his routine.

You wonder if it's something our coaches pick up and then address with him.

It's a simple fix and I highly doubt he will make it again. This is why most players could do with a specialist like Matt Lloyd speaking to them about their set shot goal kicking routine and ball drop etc.

[jeemak]

Someone in the gameday thread pointed that out at the time. Not sure who. I presume the gameday thread gets archived as soon as the siren goes, and can't be looked at again.

Anyway... it's either a 1 off or a strange inconsistency.

Someone very smart picked it up.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Someone very smart picked it up.

Liar. We don't have any of those around here. Especially in the game day thread.

[angelopetraglia]

It's a simple fix and I highly doubt he will make it again. This is why most players could do with a specialist like Matt Lloyd speaking to them about their set shot goal kicking routine and ball drop etc.

I disliked Lloyd because he always destroyed us, but gee whiz he was such a magnificent kick of the football.

[bulldogtragic]

Updated. From the weekend. Just our AFEL listed players at both levels (not inc. VFL player scores):

AFEL: 16.6
VFL: 12.2

Total: 28.8 (77.78%)


Point scorers: JUH x 2, Lobb, Cody, Naughton, Baker & Khamis (1 x rushed)

[azabob]

Someone very smart picked it up.

Shame we will never know who...

[ledge]

Plenty of retired accurate goal kickers we could call on to fix these things .. Fev, Lloyd, Betts, I would even look at Gunston and Hawkins when they retire . I also think it depends what kind of player they are eg for Weightman and Jones I would get Betts but for Jamarra and Naughton I would be getting someone like Lloyd .
That might sound a little strange but if your a full forward you need more training on set shots, a crumber would need someone like Betts for the opportunist angle of holding the ball at different angles on the run.

I also read somewhere that you might be an accurate kick when young but once you start building muscle your body changes to the extent you don’t kick the same. Meaning you have to correct your action to meet your muscle change and as we know it takes a few years to build your body, thus the our kicking action will be changing during that time .

[Hotdog60]

I just watch JUH kick his 4 goals and I say it was just the once that he had the ball the wrong way I don't think it normal routine.

[jeemak]

Shame we will never know who...

I assume whoever it was is very modest and handsome as well as smart.

[bulldogtragic]

I assume whoever it was is very modest and handsome as well as smart.

Alright it was me.

[Jasper]

I doubt its an isolated incident but now that its become well known it just cant happen again. Such a talented player with unlimited potential just needs to tighten the routine. I could swallow my pride and ask Lloyd to spend an hour or two with him.

[angelopetraglia]

Plenty of retired accurate goal kickers we could call on to fix these things .. Fev, Lloyd, Betts, I would even look at Gunston and Hawkins when they retire . I also think it depends what kind of player they are eg for Weightman and Jones I would get Betts but for Jamarra and Naughton I would be getting someone like Lloyd .
That might sound a little strange but if your a full forward you need more training on set shots, a crumber would need someone like Betts for the opportunist angle of holding the ball at different angles on the run.

I also read somewhere that you might be an accurate kick when young but once you start building muscle your body changes to the extent you don?t kick the same. Meaning you have to correct your action to meet your muscle change and as we know it takes a few years to build your body, thus the our kicking action will be changing during that time .

Agree with the concept. But Weightman doesn't need any help.

He is ranked as the 13th most accurate goal kicker of all time since records were kept from 1965. He converts at 70.5%. (Tory Dickson for what it is worth is the 2nd best ever at 74.8%.).

Only two current players convert better than Weightman in Larkey and Fogarty who are both elite goal kickers.

[ledge]

Agree with the concept. But Weightman doesn't need any help.

He is ranked as the 13th most accurate goal kicker of all time since records were kept from 1965. He converts at 70.5%. (Tory Dickson for what it is worth is the 2nd best ever at 74.8%.).

Only two current players convert better than Weightman in Larkey and Fogarty who are both elite goal kickers.

It was more an example of like for like . Your right Weightman is extremely accurate.
Do we have anyone at all that teaches goal kicking technique as a specialty ?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Plenty of retired accurate goal kickers we could call on to fix these things .. Fev, Lloyd, Betts, I would even look at Gunston and Hawkins when they retire . I also think it depends what kind of player they are eg for Weightman and Jones I would get Betts but for Jamarra and Naughton I would be getting someone like Lloyd .
That might sound a little strange but if your a full forward you need more training on set shots, a crumber would need someone like Betts for the opportunist angle of holding the ball at different angles on the run.

I also read somewhere that you might be an accurate kick when young but once you start building muscle your body changes to the extent you don?t kick the same. Meaning you have to correct your action to meet your muscle change and as we know it takes a few years to build your body, thus the our kicking action will be changing during that time .

Why not put a call into Tory Dickson or Lindsay Gilbee to coach our goal kicking.

[ledge]

Why not put a call into Tory Dickson or Lindsay Gilbee to coach our goal kicking.

Yep exactly. But I would like to see a retired accurate full forward amongst it too as both players mentioned were both more a running half forward into goals type .
Let’s get a set shot coach in as well.

[MrMahatma]

Why not put a call into Tory Dickson or Lindsay Gilbee to coach our goal kicking.

Does being a good kick mean you can teach someone how to kick? I'm not sure.

[bulldogtragic]

Butcher a bunch of opportunities and lose a close game… I hope it stings. You lost it off your own boot guys.

[westbulldog]

Don't bother about improving goalkicking.......Bevo couldn't care less and it continues to cost us games.

[bornadog]

Don't bother about improving goalkicking.......Bevo couldn't care less and it continues to cost us games.

I don't believe that is an accurate statement

[GVGjr]

Don't bother about improving goalkicking.......Bevo couldn't care less and it continues to cost us games.

The last few years he hasn't been able to resolve it and I think it's possibly more accurate to say he either doesn't know how to or is too stubborn to bring in outside help.

[bornadog]

The last few years he hasn't been able to resolve it and I think it's possibly more accurate to say he either doesn't know how to or is too stubborn to bring in outside help.

You go to training. I bet when they have goal kicking practise, the players slot the ball through almost every time.

Missing goals in game time is not lack of skill, it is in the head.

[macca]

You go to training. I bet when they have goal kicking practise, the players slot the ball through almost every time.

Missing goals in game time is not lack of skill, it is in the head.
Whatever they are training is not working
Change the training for goal kickking

jack Riewoldt would practice with ear phones on with the crowd noise playing , I recall an interview on what he did to practice his goal kicking
Some of our players completely lack balance when they kick , that is from a set shot and when in motion

JuH has an aweful hook in his action

Bonts tongiht kicked it off the side of his boot in the 3rd quarter

McNeil just fumbles far to often. Maybe he needs to learn Judo or jujitsu to know about balance and be in the moment ?

Josh Daicos goal tonight in the third quarter was a good example of balance

[GVGjr]

You go to training. I bet when they have goal kicking practise, the players slot the ball through almost every time.

Missing goals in game time is not lack of skill, it is in the head.

That's not the case.

[Bulldog4life]

Whatever they are training is not working
Change the training for goal kickking

jack Riewoldt would practice with ear phones on with the crowd noise playing , I recall an interview on what he did to practice his goal kicking
Some of our players completely lack balance when they kick , that is from a set shot and when in motion

JuH has an aweful hook in his action

Bonts tongiht kicked it off the side of his boot in the 3rd quarter

McNeil just fumbles far to often. Maybe he needs to learn Judo or jujitsu to know about balance and be in the moment ?

Josh Daicos goal tonight in the third quarter was a good example of balance

That is what I noticed. He doesn't follow through with a straight leg. For those that can remember that famous pic of EJ kicking the ball and following through that is what JUH should be doing.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

That is what I noticed. He doesn't follow through with a straight leg. For those that can remember that famous pic of EJ kicking the ball and following through that is what JUH should be doing.

Yes b4l you know I know you know how Ted did it.
He also gave lessons as a champion kick and flickpasser.
I followed every word and action. The straight line, balance, hands, drop, strike and follow through.
It served me perfectly. I became a goal kicker and field kicker at pace.
Ted taught me.
Good for golf too.

[bornadog]

Some interesting stats


Carlton 14.16
Geelong 13.17
Sydney 12.15
Melbourne 15.20

Lots of misses

[azabob]

Some interesting stats


Carlton 14.16
Geelong 13.17
Sydney 12.15
Melbourne 15.20

Lots of misses

Interesting is one word for it….

[bornadog]

Interesting is one word for it….

on the other hand we have only conceded 23 goals in 3 games

[D Mitchell]

Some interesting stats


Carlton 14.16
Geelong 13.17
Sydney 12.15
Melbourne 15.20

Lots of misses

...Melbourne 15.20 ? Bullsh.t, BAD. You made that up, after last night, there's no way Melbourne could get to 35 scoring shots, let alone 20 of them off-centre.

[D Mitchell]

Yes b4l you know I know you know how Ted did it.
He also gave lessons as a champion kick and flickpasser.
I followed every word and action. The straight line, balance, hands, drop, strike and follow through.
It served me perfectly. I became a goal kicker and field kicker at pace.
Ted taught me.
Good for golf too.

You kick the golf ball ?

[azabob]

on the other hand we have only conceded 23 goals in 3 games

I think that is the real story. Our all ground defense is a pleasure to watch.

[bornadog]

...Melbourne 15.20 ? Bullsh.t, BAD. You made that up, after last night, there's no way Melbourne could get to 35 scoring shots, let alone 20 of them off-centre.

Is this a joke post?

[azabob]

Is this a joke post?

At a guess D Mitchell thinks you are referring to our opponents scores, not ours.

[bornadog]

At a guess D Mitchell thinks you are referring to our opponents scores, not ours.

Yeah, I thought it was obvious they are what we kicked

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUWGlF_a8AEXSzZ?format=jpg&name=medium

[Axe Man]

34 shots for 14 goals. He's playing great but finishing continues to be an issue. Hopefully last week was the outlier and the previous 3 were more the norm.

Interestingly he's had the same number of shots on goal (93) to date this season as he had in 2023. There has been slight improvement of 39.32 (42%) this year vs 35.35 (38%) last year. He really needs to get it above 50% minimum.

[Hotdog60]

Just imagine if he never missed. :)

[merantau]

I really miss "Dead Eye Dickson."

[The Adelaide Connection]

I really miss "Dead Eye Dickson."

I genuinely wonder if they have sought him out in the past few years to come in and run some sessions

[merantau]

He should be the "go to" man. Madness if he hasn't been approached

[Hotdog60]

Being a great set shot for goal he may not be able to convey his technique to others.
Tory may have been ask and declined.
I always thought Gilbee would have been the one.

[MrMahatma]

Lots of players have gone through patches of spraying them. Marra will get there. He's doing the hard stuff - getting the shots. Once he dials in, he's going to rip a few games apart. Hopefully that happens this season. He's a big name in the game already but he has the opportunity to really elevate himself with a few big hauls in the balance of the year (hopefully in the finals!)

[comrade]

One of the best sharp shooters ever may be on the coaching market next year and his daughter happens to love the Bont.

Get Tommy Hawkins as forward coach in 2025.

[bornadog]

One of the best sharp shooters ever may be on the coaching market next year and his daughter happens to love the Bont.

Get Tommy Hawkins as forward coach in 2025.

Great Idea

[Axe Man]

Being a great set shot for goal he may not be able to convey his technique to others.
Tory may have been ask and declined.
I always thought Gilbee would have been the one.

Whatever Gilbee had I doubt it could be taught, he was a natural.

I think we are underselling Brad Johnson here. He has put years of work into his goal kicking coaching techniques before putting them into practice this season. The jury is still out as to whether it has helped but it's got to be a better chance of succeeding that bringing an old player down that used to be a good kick to say do what I do.

[Axe Man]

One of the best sharp shooters ever may be on the coaching market next year and his daughter happens to love the Bont.

Get Tommy Hawkins as forward coach in 2025.

You want to get rid of 2024 Premiership forward line coach Matt Spangher?

Seriously though the forward line is finally functioning well, he has to deserve at least some of the credit for that.

[hujsh]

You want to get rid of 2024 Premiership forward line coach Matt Spangher?

Seriously though the forward line is finally functioning well, he has to deserve at least some of the credit for that.

No way Hawkins comes straight in as a line coach, he'd have to start as a development coach.

Might be the same issue as Selwood where he (supposedly) wants senior coach wages for the role and goes off somewhere else to be a 'leadership specialist' or whatever he's doing now

[comrade]

No way Hawkins comes straight in as a line coach, he'd have to start as a development coach.

Might be the same issue as Selwood where he (supposedly) wants senior coach wages for the role and goes off somewhere else to be a 'leadership specialist' or whatever he's doing now

I don?t know anything about Hawk besides his ability to kick set shot goals (and give them away to teammates) is as good as we?ve seen in recent times. Having some intel on the Cats is also pretty valuable.

If he?s on the market next year, I hope we have a chat.

[Sedat]

Might be the same issue as Selwood where he (supposedly) wants senior coach wages for the role and goes off somewhere else to be a 'leadership specialist' or whatever he's doing now
Why would Selwood pivot to coaching when he is doing such an incredible job commentating on Ch 7 - he's just a natural fit on that network, what with his ability to provide absolutely zero insights into what is happening on the ground, and articulating his 'insights' incoherently and in semi-approximation to the English language

[hujsh]

Why would Selwood pivot to coaching when he is doing such an incredible job commentating on Ch 7 - he's just a natural fit on that network, with his ability to provide absolutely zero insights into what is happening in games and articulating in mangled language that cannot be deciphered by the viewers

True I suppose it's harder to stay in that gig if you're a coach at an AFL club.

[comrade]

Why would Selwood pivot to coaching when he is doing such an incredible job commentating on Ch 7 - he's just a natural fit on that network, what with his ability to provide absolutely zero insights into what is happening on the ground, and articulating his 'insights' incoherently and in semi-approximation to the English language

Who?s more eloquent? Selwood or Jobe ?better to die wondering? Watson?

[merantau]

Who?s more eloquent? Selwood or Jobe ?better to die wondering? Watson?

I think Dermie's electro-magnetic examination of the minutiae of the game, his ability to read a player's mind, to lay out a player's thought processes on the sterile block of the forensic examination table is next level eloquent.

[comrade]

I think Dermie's electro-magnetic examination of the minutiae of the game, his ability to read a player's mind, to lay out a player's thought processes on the sterile block of the forensic examination table is next level eloquent.

He gets even more intense when he's commentating with a non ex-player. I wish I enjoyed anything as much as Dermie enjoys his own voice.

[ledge]

We had Eddie Betts down, one of the best in the business then we pull out 15.20 .
You could get Tony Lockett and Jason Dunstall down and we would kick even worse.
Maybe try reverse psychology and get Will Minson or Patrick Dangerfield down when he retires.
Show us not how to kick it naturally.

[comrade]

We had Eddie Betts down, one of the best in the business then we pull out 15.20 .
You could get Tony Lockett and Jason Dunstall down and we would kick even worse.
Maybe try reverse psychology and get Will Minson or Patrick Dangerfield down when he retires.
Show us not how to kick it naturally.

It?s not a once off fix where Eddie Betts can come in and kick a footy through a doorway and show us his technique and all of a sudden Marra isn?t leaning back and starts flushing them.

It has to be a day in, day out focus if we identify it as an issue that needs improving.

I?ve gone full nuff and dived into models and numbers this week. Conversion % doesn?t actually correlate that highly to expected wins for a footy team. Scoring shots is actually much more indicative, which we?re very high on this year.

That said, we don?t play best of 5, best of 7 finals series and luck can play a big part in result. Good conversion minimises the luck factor and I?ll be sick if we dominate a final but kick 8.17 to 11.3.

[Sedat]

Who?s more eloquent? Selwood or Jobe ?better to die wondering? Watson?
You can add Cotchin to the list. Ch 7 just have no idea about any aspect of footy broadcasting, and especially picking good media talent from the recently retired ranks. And when they occasionally get it right (Bartel) they have zero idea how to harness the talent at their disposal, as evidenced by Bartel become a very sharp media commentator and analyst on Ch 9.

[Hotdog60]

We had Eddie Betts down, one of the best in the business then we pull out 15.20 .
You could get Tony Lockett and Jason Dunstall down and we would kick even worse.
Maybe try reverse psychology and get Will Minson or Patrick Dangerfield down when he retires.
Show us not how to kick it naturally.

We don't need those guys we have VDM and McNeil already in house. :)

[ledge]

We don't need those guys we have VDM and McNeil already in house. :)

Good point. I definitely think McNeill looks at both posts and not something behind the goals and being a short arse can’t see over the bloke on the mark ;-)

[Happy Days]

Who?s more eloquent? Selwood or Jobe ?better to die wondering? Watson?

Jobe sounds more like he hasn?t worked out to get past his nervous energy on air, Selwood sounds genuinely concerning and like he?s been put in the box at the insistence of the AFL to stave off another lawsuit.

[josie]

Whatever Gilbee had I doubt it could be taught, he was a natural.

I think we are underselling Brad Johnson here. He has put years of work into his goal kicking coaching techniques before putting them into practice this season. The jury is still out as to whether it has helped but it's got to be a better chance of succeeding that bringing an old player down that used to be a good kick to say do what I do.

Agree. To my eye Johnno has improved our goal kicking technique. When players miss especially Marra they aren?t spraying them as much as they were. Naughts & West have definitely improved. We still have a lot of room for improvement though. I?d love someone to do an analysis of Bont in his first year or two when he was a reasonably accurate set shot compared to now. When he is within 30m kicking for goal I cringe & look away & pray.

[jeemak]

Agree. To my eye Johnno has improved our goal kicking technique. When players miss especially Marra they aren?t spraying them as much as they were. Naughts & West have definitely improved. We still have a lot of room for improvement though. I?d love someone to do an analysis of Bont in his first year or two when he was a reasonably accurate set shot compared to now. When he is within 30m kicking for goal I cringe & look away & pray.

Bont's kicking is style over substance. It looks amazing when it comes off but doesn't often enough.

When he's field kicking or kicking from distance his left to right leg swing across the ball is good enough because he leans more over the footy with momentum. When he's having a closer shot at goal he leans further back and it makes him slap the ball left a lot of the time.

[bulldogtragic]

It’s a ****ing joke and we will continue shitting the bed until we actually address it.

[Mitcha]

It is and has been an issue for far too long and regrettably it looks as though no one other than us supporters seem to give a toss. Pisses me off and as much as I dislike him take a look at Jeremy Cameron's first set shot at goal in Perth yesterday. Stuck on the boundary on the wrong side for a left footer but never looked like missing and got the all important confidence booster on the road. Sadly we don't have anyone near capable of setting standards like that.

[jazzadogs]

It’s a ****ing joke and we will continue shitting the bed until we actually address it.

I mean...we tried didn't we? Just obviously got the wrong kicking coach...but we did bring someone in specifically to improve this aspect of the game.

It sh**s me to tears that we still miss so many GETTABLE shots, but when you've got guys like Darcy 1.6 today and Weightman 0.6 over the past three weeks who are usually reliable - how does that get fixed?

[bulldogtragic]

I mean...we tried didn't we? Just obviously got the wrong kicking coach...but we did bring someone in specifically to improve this aspect of the game.

It sh**s me to tears that we still miss so many GETTABLE shots, but when you've got guys like Darcy 1.6 today and Weightman 0.6 over the past three weeks who are usually reliable - how does that get fixed?

Johnno is a part timer. Sure we’ve tried something. But I’d rather a fundraiser for a proper more intense goal kicking coach.

[jeemak]

I mean...we tried didn't we? Just obviously got the wrong kicking coach...but we did bring someone in specifically to improve this aspect of the game.

It sh**s me to tears that we still miss so many GETTABLE shots, but when you've got guys like Darcy 1.6 today and Weightman 0.6 over the past three weeks who are usually reliable - how does that get fixed?

The players need to be accountable at some point.

Most goal kicking coaching is going to be the same and it really wouldn't matter who you get in unless you're dealing with players who have absolutely dreadful techniques.

Our players just need to be better.

[Grantysghost]

Johnno is a part timer. Sure we?ve tried something. But I?d rather a fundraiser for a proper more intense goal kicking coach.
The Naughton one early. My god that's a local footballers dream shot. Any forward who is a reasonable kick swallows those. He missed by miles it went at right angles off his boot. He's been better this year granted, however his kicking for goal is inheritently flawed and can't be fixed.

[bulldogtragic]

The Naughton one early. My god that's a local footballers dream shot. Any forward who is a reasonable kick swallows those. He missed by miles it went at right angles off his boot. He's been better this year granted, however his kicking for goal is inheritently flawed and can't be fixed.

We’ll get used to the next 7 years watching it. It won’t get better. He won’t go into defence. He won’t be traded. He looks better working up the ground, but I agree that he just misses far too many very, very gettable ones.

[Grantysghost]

We’ll get used to the next 7 years watching it. It won’t get better. He won’t go into defence. He won’t be traded. He looks better working up the ground, but I agree that he just misses far too many very, very gettable ones.
I found it interesting we subbed him before trying him on Fogarty and moving Buku forward.

[bulldogtragic]

I found it interesting we subbed him before trying him on Fogarty and moving Buku forward.

I’m certain (without knowing) part of his deal is never playing as a defender.

[jazzadogs]

The players need to be accountable at some point.

Most goal kicking coaching is going to be the same and it really wouldn't matter who you get in unless you're dealing with players who have absolutely dreadful techniques.

Our players just need to be better.

I agree with this...I had interpreted BTs comment as a " club/coaches needs to do more" and I feel like they're doing what they can.

The players need to put the work in on their technique and craft. It's not good enough.

G/Smads/track watchers, outside of the Johnno sessions how often do you see players have shots for goal? And what percentage of them are from deep in the pocket at the entrance to the new facility?

[GVGjr]

I agree with this...I had interpreted BTs comment as a " club/coaches needs to do more" and I feel like they're doing what they can.

The players need to put the work in on their technique and craft. It's not good enough.

G/Smads/track watchers, outside of the Johnno sessions how often do you see players have shots for goal? And what percentage of them are from deep in the pocket at the entrance to the new facility?

They did goal kicking on Tuesday and Thursday sessions at different ends of the ground to maximise cross winds and condition and they did them without Johnno being present. It normally has a combination of kicking over the man on the mark from directly in front and from tight angles.

[jazzadogs]

They did goal kicking on Tuesday and Thursday sessions at different ends of the ground to maximise cross winds and condition and they did them without Johnno being present. It normally has a combination of kicking over the man on the mark from directly in front and from tight angles.

So Johnno comes in, talks about technique or routine etc, and then they get other opportunities to practice it? That sounds good to me - but the key is whether they have any pressure on their results in those sessions. If Naughton kicks 1.9 is he accountable to anyone? Or does he just come out the next session and do the same thing?

[GVGjr]

So Johnno comes in, talks about technique or routine etc, and then they get other opportunities to practice it? That sounds good to me - but the key is whether they have any pressure on their results in those sessions. If Naughton kicks 1.9 is he accountable to anyone? Or does he just come out the next session and do the same thing?

As far as I can tell it's done professionally and taken seriously and given it's overseen by a couple of coaches I think they're providing feedback to the players.

[Rocket Science]

This ranking of each teams' goal kicking accuracy across the past five rounds is not only wholly unflattering for us but thoroughly fascinating given our next pair of opponents ...

https://i.ibb.co/NtPdMCL/R18-R22.png (https://ibb.co/ckHSj3N)

[jeemak]

But also flattering in the sense that we're getting ~10% more scoring shots a game than the two in form teams of the competition, who are also both at the wrong end of the scale.

The team closest to the best blend is Hawthorn, I guess?

[hujsh]

It's frustrating that we seemed to have made real progress on this earlier in the year and right as we hit a rich vein of form it disintegrates

[The Adelaide Connection]

I am no goal kicking expert, but watched them nailing 95% of their shots from all angles/distances in the warmup and I did have this random thought:

Do they need to be taking these warmup shots with a man on the mark?

[jeemak]

I am no goal kicking expert, but watched them nailing 95% of their shots from all angles/distances in the warmup and I did have this random thought:

Do they need to be taking these warmup shots with a man on the mark?

I get the intent and it's a good observation. But the last thing I want before a game is a bunch of players shitting themselves about how things are going to be if they're missing a bunch of set shots.

[bornadog]

I am no goal kicking expert, but watched them nailing 95% of their shots from all angles/distances in the warmup and I did have this random thought:

Do they need to be taking these warmup shots with a man on the mark?

I have said this for a long time. It is all in the head. Go to training and they are nailing their shots, or like you said in the warm up, but during a game we are over thinking and panicking whether we are going to be accurate. You can see with both JUH and Naughton through their body language, they are thinking - I better not miss, I better not miss. They need confidence instilled into them.

[ledge]

Can we change this thread to point kicking, we kick a lot more of them.
Maybe the thought is if we kick 7points it nullifies any goal the opposition kick.

[bornadog]

Johnno on Goal kicking

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6GVCMBVAQH9gKKjubFLV9q

[Axe Man]

Compare the pair. Almost the same number of shots on goal but Hogan's accuracy has been rewarded with a Coleman Medal whilst Jamarra continues to struggle in front of the sticks. He's just got to improve this aspect of his game going forward and he will be the best in the league. At least time is on his side. Maybe JUH should investigate a stuttering run up?

https://i.postimg.cc/Ls0CSbKS/hogan.png (https://postimg.cc/Ff3ggGHC)