Goalkicking

[comrade]

My favourite topic rears its ugly head in the following article:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/stats-insider-how-western-bulldogs-geelong-cats-have-been-most-hurt-by-inaccurate-goalkicking-expected-scores/news-story/412000efb3bf418c2596d17bc7883b02

Definitely felt like the Giants were kicking them out of every orifice and we couldn't hit the side of a barn door.

11-0 would've been nice.

[jazzadogs]

That's the sort of article and analysis that I love to read. But I also hate it, because it shows how much we are letting a simple skill dictate our season.

[Twodogs]

That's the sort of article and analysis that I love to read. But I also hate it, because it shows how much we are letting a simple skill dictate our season.

Frustrating isn't it? I watch our blokes take a set shot and they run in from angles, stop start or stutter their run in or spin the ball in their hands and yell to myself "Do it *!*!*!*!ing properly"

In Rugby League they have a saying "respect the ball". AFL players would do well to learn the saying and understand what it means.

[bornadog]

Is there a stat showing missed goals from set shots?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Is there more to the fact that last year we were ranked 4th in the comp for points scored? Our points against also wasn't that great amongst top 8 sides.

Why the 180 flip this year in terms of offence and defence?

[Mofra]

Is there more to the fact that last year we were ranked 4th in the comp for points scored? Our points against also wasn't that great amongst top 8 sides.

Why the 180 flip this year in terms of offence and defence?
We dominated Adelaide last year in every category except where it mattered, our lack of accuracy has already cost us.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Here is the gist of the article.

For all of the planning pre game and in the coaches’ box, even the master tacticians of the AFL can’t help when their team just can’t kick straight.
For Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge, that has been extremely apparent in 2016 — because his side should be undefeated.
Analysis from AFL stat gurus Champion Data reveals that nine games this season have been decided by goalkicking. They use a metric called ‘expected score’, which analyses each scoring shot based on difficulty and gives it a value based on how often you would expect a team to goal from that spot on the ground.
By comparing a game’s expected score to the actual score, we can then confirm what you can already see when you look at the scoreboard some weeks — teams that kick poorly while their opponents kick straight can cost themselves the game.
Remarkably, three of the nine matches decided this season by goalkicking were the Bulldogs’ three losses.

Against Hawthorn in Round 3, the Dogs fell by three points while recording two extra scoring shots — they should have won by seven points.
Then against North Melbourne in Round 6 it was the same story. The Bulldogs had one fewer scoring shot than the Kangaroos but had higher-quality chances, meaning in a game they lost by 16 points, they should have won by eight.
The Round 9 loss to GWS is perhaps the most surprising. The Dogs were seemingly soundly beaten, losing 15.8 (98) to 10.13 (73). But the visitors had same number of scoring chances as the Giants and better ones too, meaning that if they had kicked as expected, the Bulldogs would’ve gotten over the line by four points.


It's something in our game we REALLY need to work on. Most of our wins this year should have been bigger too. Giving us a healthier percentage.
Then there's the beautifully constructed forward entries that fizzle out into zero scores from stuffing around with the ball.

[Remi Moses]

Interesting hearing Brereton on the fox round table saying that not converting our dominance we are prone to a team winning in a few minutes . Tend to agree to an extent, but he failed to see that our set shot kicking in particular has hurt us.
I think we kicked 3 7 on Sunday from set shots

[Mofra]

Interesting hearing Brereton on the fox round table saying that not converting our dominance we are prone to a team winning in a few minutes .
West Coast kicked 3 goals to get within 3 points last weekend despite us winning almost everywhere else around the ground.
And that's with Stringer kicking a freaky one from the boundary.

[1eyedog]

Interesting hearing Brereton on the fox round table saying that not converting our dominance we are prone to a team winning in a few minutes . Tend to agree to an extent, but he failed to see that our set shot kicking in particular has hurt us.
I think we kicked 3 7 on Sunday from set shots

It's pretty clear if we miss opportunities we keep the opposition in the game regardless how much we dominate the KPIs.

[GVGjr]

For Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge, that has been extremely apparent in 2016 — because his side should be undefeated.

I don't think this is a fact based comment. From the limited time I have seen the boys train there is still no real urgency or focus on set shot conversion so I don't think it's given the time it needs. I'd even say that some players have gone backwards with this skill and we also seem to have one highly talented player looking to distribute the ball to anyone else rather than take the shot himself.

Would we have won 11 games? I'm not convinced, but my fear is it will cost us when it counts. I think we have to accept it's not a strength of ours and hope it will be addressed in the off season.

[Twodogs]

I don't think this is a fact based comment. From the limited time I have seen the boys train there is still no real urgency or focus on set shot conversion so I don't think it's given the time it needs. I'd even say that some players have gone backwards with this skill and we also seem to have one highly talented player looking to distribute the ball to anyone else rather than take the shot himself.

Would we have won 11 games? I'm not convinced, but my fear is it will cost us when it counts. I think we have to accept it's not a strength of ours and hope it will be addressed in the off season.

Will it though? It was a problem last year too. When it comes to goal kickers we are all over the place. We have one top line converter, a couple are not bad but the others are a bit like the keystone cops coming up with all sorts of humorous methods of trying to get the ball through the goals.

And I'll keep saying it. We don't have to wait until the off season to teach anyone how to kick the ball properly. It's a simple process.

[Torpedo]

Will it though? It was a problem last year too. When it comes to goal kickers we are all over the place. We have one top line converter, a couple are not bad but the others are a bit like the keystone cops coming up with all sorts of humorous methods of trying to get the ball through the goals.


And one player who refuses to shoot for goal. I love his toughness, run and skill but Jack Macrae would rather kick it anywhere (and can) than line up the goals and pot it. Think he kicked a goal in round one but has since gone back to handing it off whenever he is in range. Very disappointing for a talented player.

[Twodogs]

And one player who refuses to shoot for goal. I love his toughness, run and skill but Jack Macrae would rather kick it anywhere (and can) than line up the goals and pot it. Think he kicked a goal in round one but has since gone back to handing it off whenever he is in range. Very disappointing for a talented player.

I really only played footy to have shots at goal. I can't understand letting somebody else get the credit.

I would have been pushing teammates out the way to get my hands on the ball in range.:)

[Eastdog]

Yes this I agree is not a strong area of ours. The question is can players be taught this skill from a coach or is it just innate in the players. Jack Redpath has been really good up forward taking some nice marks this year but a few times his goalkicking hasn't been great. Lachie Hunter has been really good lately but I remember in the game day thread a few weeks back against the Giants I think it was we were very critical of his conversion at goal.

My brother is a Pies supporter but we were talking about the Dogs and he said that while defensive we have conceded very little our for is average 92 and we need to have it around 100 if we are a chance for the flag. Maybe we might be the exception and win it without average around 100.

[GVGjr]

Will it though? It was a problem last year too. When it comes to goal kickers we are all over the place. We have one top line converter, a couple are not bad but the others are a bit like the keystone cops coming up with all sorts of humorous methods of trying to get the ball through the goals.

And I'll keep saying it. We don't have to wait until the off season to teach anyone how to kick the ball properly. It's a simple process.


If we were to lose a critical game later in the season due to an erratic performance I think it would leave us no other option than to regroup and take it more seriously.

[jazzadogs]

And that is why goalkicking is so important. Sure we missed some opportunities late, but the accuracy of Redpath and others contributed to our early dominance. And Port's 2.4 in the second helped us out.

Swings and roundabouts ey?

[GVGjr]

And that is why goalkicking is so important. Sure we missed some opportunities late, but the accuracy of Redpath and others contributed to our early dominance. And Port's 2.4 in the second helped us out.

Swings and roundabouts ey?

I think the point isn't just about accurate kicking it's about missing the easy goals and we are still under par in that regard.
We miss more than we should.

[Twodogs]

If we were to lose a critical game later in the season due to an erratic performance I think it would leave us no other option than to regroup and take it more seriously.

Like it did in the final against Adelaide last year? It's already cost us a final. What has to happen to get them to notice it?

Missing the winning goal from the goal square in the Grand Final?

[SonofScray]

We still missed some easy ones yesterday but on balance yesterday felt like a game where we nailed the ones we had to. Accuracy from Redpath and Dickson set the tone perhaps?

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I'm taking over goal kicking practice as of now. Every shot needs to be undertaken as if in game time with a man on the mark.
Our main goal kickers will practice daily for 30 mins with the ball lowered with the relevant hand as close to the foot as possible, with the ball in line with the relevant leg hence foot and with the head leaning forward towards said foot. Drill it, drill after drill. Rote learning and get the feel of the rhythm of the leg as pendulum following through high towards the gap between the goal posts.
Seriously it can't be that hard to teach. All professional golfers get instructions on their swing. It should be the same for goal kickers. It must be part of ongoing training including preseason.

[Twodogs]

I'm taking over goal kicking practice as of now. Every shot needs to be undertaken as if in game time with a man on the mark.
Our main goal kickers will practice daily for 30 mins with the ball lowered with the relevant hand as close to the foot as possible, with the ball in line with the relevant leg hence foot and with the head leaning forward towards said foot. Drill it, drill after drill. Rote learning and get the feel of the rhythm of the leg as pendulum following through high towards the gap between the goal posts.
Seriously it can't be that hard to teach. All professional golfers get instructions on their swing. It should be the same for goal kickers. It must be part of ongoing training including preseason.


Damn straight. You've got the job.

[Stefcep]

Yes this I agree is not a strong area of ours. The question is can players be taught this skill from a coach or is it just innate in the players. Jack Redpath has been really good up forward taking some nice marks this year but a few times his goalkicking hasn't been great. Lachie Hunter has been really good lately but I remember in the game day thread a few weeks back against the Giants I think it was we were very critical of his conversion at goal.

My brother is a Pies supporter but we were talking about the Dogs and he said that while defensive we have conceded very little our for is average 92 and we need to have it around 100 if we are a chance for the flag. Maybe we might be the exception and win it without average around 100.

Yes its the 100 point rule. Get it before your opponent, and you will win far more than you will lose.

Its obvious even without the "analysis" that kicking for goal has cost us games. The other thing is we work very hard for our goals-we don't get many cheap ones.

The good thing is we are now winning the close ones but.

[Stefcep]

I'm taking over goal kicking practice as of now. Every shot needs to be undertaken as if in game time with a man on the mark.
Our main goal kickers will practice daily for 30 mins with the ball lowered with the relevant hand as close to the foot as possible, with the ball in line with the relevant leg hence foot and with the head leaning forward towards said foot. Drill it, drill after drill. Rote learning and get the feel of the rhythm of the leg as pendulum following through high towards the gap between the goal posts.
Seriously it can't be that hard to teach. All professional golfers get instructions on their swing. It should be the same for goal kickers. It must be part of ongoing training including preseason.

Its not just us. Matthew Lloyd believes kicking skills have gone backwards.

[comrade]

Footy is so much better to watch when we kick set shots. Nothing worse in a game of footy than dominating for large stretches and completely ballsing up shot after shot. On the flip side, there's nothing better than being under the pump but nailing everything and staying in the game.

If this isn't just a one week aberration and we've turned the corner with our forward 50 efficiency (both kicking for goal and hitting lead up targets), look out!

[Bulldog4life]

Footy is so much better to watch when we kick set shots. Nothing worse in a game of footy than dominating for large stretches and completely ballsing up shot after shot. On the flip side, there's nothing better than being under the pump but nailing everything and staying in the game.

If this isn't just a one week aberration and we've turned the corner with our forward 50 efficiency (both kicking for goal and hitting lead up targets), look out!

Agree. Those set shots from Jack close to the fifty metre line were fantastic to watch and real team lifters.

[bornadog]

Not just us with Goal kicking issues

Most recent V/AFL season with shot at goal accuracy above 50%...


2023 - Cats, Demons, Dockers, Pies, Roos, Swans
2022 - Eagles, Hawks, Lions, Tigers
2021 -
2020 -
2019 -
2018 -
2017 - Crows, Suns
2016 - GWS, Port, Saints
2015 - Dogs
2014 -
2013 -
2012 -
2011 - Dons
2010 - Blues

[bulldogtragic]

So you’re saying it’s Bevo’s fault it? Or BMAC put more effort in??? :D

Shithouse company we are keeping. Just shit. House.

[Bulldog Joe]

Not just us with Goal kicking issues

Most recent V/AFL season with shot at goal accuracy above 50%...


2023 - Cats, Demons, Dockers, Pies, Roos, Swans
2022 - Eagles, Hawks, Lions, Tigers
2021 -
2020 -
2019 -
2018 -
2017 - Crows, Suns
2016 - GWS, Port, Saints
2015 - Dogs
2014 -
2013 -
2012 -
2011 - Dons
2010 - Blues

Nice timing to post.
How did Geelong and Sydney fare last night?

[bornadog]

Nice timing to post.
How did Geelong and Sydney fare last night?
Stuffed it right up

[bulldogtragic]

Today:

AFEL: 16.6
VFL: 17.6

Total: 33.12 (nearly 75%)

WTF?

[Bulldog Joe]

Today:

AFEL: 16.6
VFL: 17.6

Total: 33.12 (nearly 75%)

WTF?
Must be a mistake

[bornadog]

I still believe goal kicking is all in the head. The guys will practise at training and may slot through 10 out of 10, but come to a match the pressure is on.

[ledge]

Today:

AFEL: 16.6
VFL: 17.6

Total: 33.12 (nearly 75%)

WTF?

We had a bad day . No doubt all goal kickers will be disciplined over the inconsistency we have shown this week.

[azabob]

Interesting, very interesting indeed.


https://youtu.be/TnIktL5zOmM

[MrMahatma]

Interesting, very interesting indeed.


https://youtu.be/TnIktL5zOmM

Someone in the gameday thread pointed that out at the time. Not sure who. I presume the gameday thread gets archived as soon as the siren goes, and can't be looked at again.

Anyway... it's either a 1 off or a strange inconsistency.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's really bizarre. Surely Marra would feel the difference in his hands before he kicks it. Perhaps it's a sign he was focused on other parts of his routine.

You wonder if it's something our coaches pick up and then address with him.

[GVGjr]

It's really bizarre. Surely Marra would feel the difference in his hands before he kicks it. Perhaps it's a sign he was focused on other parts of his routine.

You wonder if it's something our coaches pick up and then address with him.

It's a simple fix and I highly doubt he will make it again. This is why most players could do with a specialist like Matt Lloyd speaking to them about their set shot goal kicking routine and ball drop etc.

[jeemak]

Someone in the gameday thread pointed that out at the time. Not sure who. I presume the gameday thread gets archived as soon as the siren goes, and can't be looked at again.

Anyway... it's either a 1 off or a strange inconsistency.

Someone very smart picked it up.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Someone very smart picked it up.

Liar. We don't have any of those around here. Especially in the game day thread.

[angelopetraglia]

It's a simple fix and I highly doubt he will make it again. This is why most players could do with a specialist like Matt Lloyd speaking to them about their set shot goal kicking routine and ball drop etc.

I disliked Lloyd because he always destroyed us, but gee whiz he was such a magnificent kick of the football.

[bulldogtragic]

Updated. From the weekend. Just our AFEL listed players at both levels (not inc. VFL player scores):

AFEL: 16.6
VFL: 12.2

Total: 28.8 (77.78%)


Point scorers: JUH x 2, Lobb, Cody, Naughton, Baker & Khamis (1 x rushed)

[azabob]

Someone very smart picked it up.

Shame we will never know who...

[ledge]

Plenty of retired accurate goal kickers we could call on to fix these things .. Fev, Lloyd, Betts, I would even look at Gunston and Hawkins when they retire . I also think it depends what kind of player they are eg for Weightman and Jones I would get Betts but for Jamarra and Naughton I would be getting someone like Lloyd .
That might sound a little strange but if your a full forward you need more training on set shots, a crumber would need someone like Betts for the opportunist angle of holding the ball at different angles on the run.

I also read somewhere that you might be an accurate kick when young but once you start building muscle your body changes to the extent you don’t kick the same. Meaning you have to correct your action to meet your muscle change and as we know it takes a few years to build your body, thus the our kicking action will be changing during that time .

[Hotdog60]

I just watch JUH kick his 4 goals and I say it was just the once that he had the ball the wrong way I don't think it normal routine.

[jeemak]

Shame we will never know who...

I assume whoever it was is very modest and handsome as well as smart.

[bulldogtragic]

I assume whoever it was is very modest and handsome as well as smart.

Alright it was me.

[Jasper]

I doubt its an isolated incident but now that its become well known it just cant happen again. Such a talented player with unlimited potential just needs to tighten the routine. I could swallow my pride and ask Lloyd to spend an hour or two with him.

[angelopetraglia]

Plenty of retired accurate goal kickers we could call on to fix these things .. Fev, Lloyd, Betts, I would even look at Gunston and Hawkins when they retire . I also think it depends what kind of player they are eg for Weightman and Jones I would get Betts but for Jamarra and Naughton I would be getting someone like Lloyd .
That might sound a little strange but if your a full forward you need more training on set shots, a crumber would need someone like Betts for the opportunist angle of holding the ball at different angles on the run.

I also read somewhere that you might be an accurate kick when young but once you start building muscle your body changes to the extent you don?t kick the same. Meaning you have to correct your action to meet your muscle change and as we know it takes a few years to build your body, thus the our kicking action will be changing during that time .

Agree with the concept. But Weightman doesn't need any help.

He is ranked as the 13th most accurate goal kicker of all time since records were kept from 1965. He converts at 70.5%. (Tory Dickson for what it is worth is the 2nd best ever at 74.8%.).

Only two current players convert better than Weightman in Larkey and Fogarty who are both elite goal kickers.

[ledge]

Agree with the concept. But Weightman doesn't need any help.

He is ranked as the 13th most accurate goal kicker of all time since records were kept from 1965. He converts at 70.5%. (Tory Dickson for what it is worth is the 2nd best ever at 74.8%.).

Only two current players convert better than Weightman in Larkey and Fogarty who are both elite goal kickers.

It was more an example of like for like . Your right Weightman is extremely accurate.
Do we have anyone at all that teaches goal kicking technique as a specialty ?

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Plenty of retired accurate goal kickers we could call on to fix these things .. Fev, Lloyd, Betts, I would even look at Gunston and Hawkins when they retire . I also think it depends what kind of player they are eg for Weightman and Jones I would get Betts but for Jamarra and Naughton I would be getting someone like Lloyd .
That might sound a little strange but if your a full forward you need more training on set shots, a crumber would need someone like Betts for the opportunist angle of holding the ball at different angles on the run.

I also read somewhere that you might be an accurate kick when young but once you start building muscle your body changes to the extent you don?t kick the same. Meaning you have to correct your action to meet your muscle change and as we know it takes a few years to build your body, thus the our kicking action will be changing during that time .

Why not put a call into Tory Dickson or Lindsay Gilbee to coach our goal kicking.

[ledge]

Why not put a call into Tory Dickson or Lindsay Gilbee to coach our goal kicking.

Yep exactly. But I would like to see a retired accurate full forward amongst it too as both players mentioned were both more a running half forward into goals type .
Let’s get a set shot coach in as well.

[MrMahatma]

Why not put a call into Tory Dickson or Lindsay Gilbee to coach our goal kicking.

Does being a good kick mean you can teach someone how to kick? I'm not sure.

[bulldogtragic]

Butcher a bunch of opportunities and lose a close game… I hope it stings. You lost it off your own boot guys.

[westbulldog]

Don't bother about improving goalkicking.......Bevo couldn't care less and it continues to cost us games.

[bornadog]

Don't bother about improving goalkicking.......Bevo couldn't care less and it continues to cost us games.

I don't believe that is an accurate statement

[GVGjr]

Don't bother about improving goalkicking.......Bevo couldn't care less and it continues to cost us games.

The last few years he hasn't been able to resolve it and I think it's possibly more accurate to say he either doesn't know how to or is too stubborn to bring in outside help.

[bornadog]

The last few years he hasn't been able to resolve it and I think it's possibly more accurate to say he either doesn't know how to or is too stubborn to bring in outside help.

You go to training. I bet when they have goal kicking practise, the players slot the ball through almost every time.

Missing goals in game time is not lack of skill, it is in the head.

[macca]

You go to training. I bet when they have goal kicking practise, the players slot the ball through almost every time.

Missing goals in game time is not lack of skill, it is in the head.
Whatever they are training is not working
Change the training for goal kickking

jack Riewoldt would practice with ear phones on with the crowd noise playing , I recall an interview on what he did to practice his goal kicking
Some of our players completely lack balance when they kick , that is from a set shot and when in motion

JuH has an aweful hook in his action

Bonts tongiht kicked it off the side of his boot in the 3rd quarter

McNeil just fumbles far to often. Maybe he needs to learn Judo or jujitsu to know about balance and be in the moment ?

Josh Daicos goal tonight in the third quarter was a good example of balance

[GVGjr]

You go to training. I bet when they have goal kicking practise, the players slot the ball through almost every time.

Missing goals in game time is not lack of skill, it is in the head.

That's not the case.

[Bulldog4life]

Whatever they are training is not working
Change the training for goal kickking

jack Riewoldt would practice with ear phones on with the crowd noise playing , I recall an interview on what he did to practice his goal kicking
Some of our players completely lack balance when they kick , that is from a set shot and when in motion

JuH has an aweful hook in his action

Bonts tongiht kicked it off the side of his boot in the 3rd quarter

McNeil just fumbles far to often. Maybe he needs to learn Judo or jujitsu to know about balance and be in the moment ?

Josh Daicos goal tonight in the third quarter was a good example of balance

That is what I noticed. He doesn't follow through with a straight leg. For those that can remember that famous pic of EJ kicking the ball and following through that is what JUH should be doing.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

That is what I noticed. He doesn't follow through with a straight leg. For those that can remember that famous pic of EJ kicking the ball and following through that is what JUH should be doing.

Yes b4l you know I know you know how Ted did it.
He also gave lessons as a champion kick and flickpasser.
I followed every word and action. The straight line, balance, hands, drop, strike and follow through.
It served me perfectly. I became a goal kicker and field kicker at pace.
Ted taught me.
Good for golf too.