Lin Jong Tours Collingwood's Facilities

[Doc26]

Just posted up on the Herald Sun:

WESTERN Bulldogs midfielder Lin Jong toured Collingwood’s facilities in the days before he played in the Dogs’ pulsating win over Sydney on Saturday.

The out-of-contract Bulldog met with a Magpies official after hours at the Holden Centre last week as he weighs up his footballing future.

Clubs are permitted to talk to rival players and their managers, but stepping inside a rival club in-season is uncommon.

The Bulldogs have attempted to re-sign Jong this season, but they have been unable to agree to terms.

Jong, 23, has not reached any agreement with the Magpies, but is believed to be considering his options.

Sources close to the 188cm hard nut confirmed the night-time visit to Collingwood’s Olympic Park headquarters.

The hard-nut ball-winner has been in and out of the Bulldogs’ senior team, playing seven AFL games this season.

He had 20 possessions and three clearances in the thrilling win over the Swans.

Jong has played 30 AFL games in five seasons at the kennel and could move elsewhere for more senior opportunities next year.

Gold Coast chased the No.9 pick in the 2009 rookie draft in last year’s trade period, but he turned the Suns down.

Despite high hopes for 2016, the growing depth on the Bulldogs’ list has pushed Jong to the fringes of senior selection.

The Oakleigh product was also suspended for two matches for making high contact to young Giant Matthew Buntine in Round 9.

Jong underwent groin surgery in the off-season and said he wanted to model his game on Geelong superstar Patrick Dangerfield.

“The way he uses his speed is something I’d really like to do,” Jong said in March.

“The coaches tell me to use my speed as much as I can and break away from packs a bit more.

“Patrick is such a great player and I aspire to be a better player and keep improving, so I like to adapt my game to his.”

How Collingwood could secure Jong in either this year’s trade or draft periods remains unclear.

Collingwood does not have a first-round pick in this year’s draft after using it to secure star midfielder Adam Treloar last year.

The club also needs to amass draft points if it is to nab father-son propositions Callum Brown and Josh Daicos, so any trade move for Jong would be difficult.

However, out-of-contract ruckman Jarrod Witts could be put up for trade to bolster the Magpies’ position. Full-back Nathan Brown is also a free agent this year.

Western Bulldogs officials met with recruit Tom Boyd at Peter Gordon’s house in 2014, midway through Boyd’s first season at Greater Western Sydney.

Neither the Dogs or the Pies would comment yesterday.

[Hotdog60]

If a player is exploring other options rather than cementing his place in the team makes me wonder about his commitment.
I like Jong but if his not in 100% lets get what we can for him and I don't think Collingwood would be the only interested party.

Wasn't this sort of thing poaching in the old days?

[ledge]

Maybe Collingwood offered more than we did.
It's a business nowadays, nothing wrong with exploring your options and we have a deep list in his position he struggles to get a game. He will get games at other clubs it's actually a compliment on how good our list is.
We do have to make decisions on some players at end of year this might help us not to make one.
He is a good player and I hope he stays but this is the nature of the beast.

[whythelongface]

Maybe Collingwood offered more than we did.
It's a business nowadays, nothing wrong with exploring your options and we have a deep list in his position he struggles to get a game. He will get games at other clubs it's actually a compliment on how good our list is.
We do have to make decisions on some players at end of year this might help us not to make one.
He is a good player and I hope he stays but this is the nature of the beast.

Totally agree. He is a young man and needs to secure his future. Football is only limited and you need to make the most of your opportunities that are presented to you (like life in general). If he has more opportunities at Collingwood, plus can earn more than with us, it is a no brainer for a fringe player. No point being loyal if you are not satisfied with the contract presented and, at best, you are only a fringe player.

[Rocco Jones]

I said this on another thread...

We don't know contract we offered Jong but in all likelihood a one year deal, probably not ok much coin. He isn't a star, he is in career survival mode. He isn't deciding on how rich he wants to be. Obviously I prefer this to not come out but some players can afford to be loyal and some can't. Let's be realistic. We know Jong is a good citizen. Let's not burn him. Sometimes 'good guys' need to leave. Look at how strong clubs treat players who want to leave for career reasons. Hawks and Swans are good examples.

[westdog54]

Agree that there shouldn't be any issues if he wishes to move on.

I hope that revelations of this don't mean an extended stint at Footscray either. We've still got a premiership to win and if he's best 22 at any given time then he's best 22.

[anfo27]

Have no issue with Jong looking at his options, he needs to do whats best for him. I do have an issue with him having a tour of a rival clubs facilities during the season. Talk to his manager thats fine but I want Lin to concentrate on the now and putting all his energies into doing his best come game day.

What an earth could he get out of touring the facilities now instead of the end of the season anyway? I wonder what Bevo would say.

[Twodogs]

Let's face it, Collingwood are the club that pays some fairly ordinary players (White, Greenwood, Howe, et al) very good money and if you were a player on another club's list who wasn't guaranteed a place in the best 22 (or even on the list) and Collingwood came calling then you would be silly not to see what they are offering.

[bornadog]

I said this on another thread...

We don't know contract we offered Jong but in all likelihood a one year deal, probably not ok much coin. He isn't a star, he is in career survival mode. He isn't deciding on how rich he wants to be. Obviously I prefer this to not come out but some players can afford to be loyal and some can't. Let's be realistic. We know Jong is a good citizen. Let's not burn him. Sometimes 'good guys' need to leave. Look at how strong clubs treat players who want to leave for career reasons. Hawks and Swans are good examples.

I can understand if he wants to leave, but visiting premises in the middle of the year and it gets out in public. Not on as far as I am concerned. All this should be done at year end.

Anyway, still unconfirmed as far as I am concerned.

[westdog54]

I can understand if he wants to leave, but visiting premises in the middle of the year and it gets out in public. Not on as far as I am concerned. All this should be done at year end.

Anyway, still unconfirmed as far as I am concerned.

I can see where you are coming from but considering we'll be playing in September, players don't get a massive window of opportunity to explore their options and do due diligence if they're looking at a move, and if he thinks there's a better opportunity at another club (and lets face it, he'd probably walk into their 22 at the moment) then it doesn't serve anyone well to be holding him back.

To be honest the whole 'secret squirrel' thing is a little bit silly when it comes to out of contract players. Other codes have players moving around all the time and there is far more transparency to it.

If he was under contract it would have been a different story.

[soupman]

Completely understandable that he is assessing his options. He is a good player and in our best 25 but by moving he could not only get a better contract (if Tutt and Jones can get 3 years on decent coin then Jong could get something decent too).

Also with us he is asked to spend his time rotating between forward and midfield and for mine he doesn't have the smarts to get the ball enough as a forward or the goal sense to make him dangerous enough from the limited opportunities he gets. I think he is far better as a midfielder where his quantity of possession can outweigh his lack of quality. I think there is no coincidence his best two games of the season have been the last two rounds where he seems to have played predominately midfield instead of forward.

If he goes somewhere like Collingwood and they promise him more midfield time he could have the bonus of being more likely to secure a good contract in the future after the initial one runs out.

Also from our point of view Dunkley is a fairly good replacement as that bigger forward/mid and while Jong does have pace he isn't a good enough user to be that outside player we lack.

[Ozza]

Will be interesting to see if he is picked this week.

[Mantis]

Will be interesting to see if he is picked this week.

Thoughts on this?

I don't think Bevo would take too kindly to this sort of behaviour.. It's the vibe I get.

[soupman]

Thoughts on this?

I don't think Bevo would take too kindly to this sort of behaviour.. It's the vibe I get.

Me too which I think is somewhat unfortunate.

We can't sweet talk Suckling, Boyd and whoever else mid season and then crack the shits when our own fringe players assess their options.

[Bulldog4life]

Personally I will be disappointed if he leaves. Lin started late his footy career ....15 years old I think...and my opinion is that he has a lot of improvement in him. He is a good size, fast and gets his own ball. It would be interesting to know what terms the Club has offered him.

[G-Mo77]

Only issue I have is him personally going on a tour mid way in the season. It feels a little like betrayal. That being said he's on the fringe with us and I don't fault him for exploring his options. We can't keep every player.

[always right]

Timing isn't great but no suggestion it will impact his effort going by his performance on the weekend. Let's face it.....he needs to perform to attract suitors.

I understand why he might leave and will be disappointed. There is so much to like about him.....and he's provided plenty of new memberships through his family and extended family and friends:)

Unfortunately the reality is our list is building and he is unlikely to be best 22 going forward.

[bornadog]

I can see where you are coming from but considering we'll be playing in September, players don't get a massive window of opportunity to explore their options and do due diligence if they're looking at a move, and if he thinks there's a better opportunity at another club (and lets face it, he'd probably walk into their 22 at the moment) then it doesn't serve anyone well to be holding him back.

To be honest the whole 'secret squirrel' thing is a little bit silly when it comes to out of contract players. Other codes have players moving around all the time and there is far more transparency to it.

If he was under contract it would have been a different story.
He is under contract

[westdog54]

He is under contract

I thought he was out of contract at the end of the season. My bad.

[Bulldog Joe]

I thought he was out of contract at the end of the season. My bad.

Which means is under contract until the end of the season.

[westdog54]

So, rather than taking an entirely professional approach to his possible departure, as Hawthorn did with Suckling last year, we childishly sit on our hands and pretend that he's not exploring his options to continue his career next year?

[jeemak]

Like a lot of things in the footy world, it's likely this is a bigger concern to supporters than it is to the club.

[Ghost Dog]

Recently it feels like the journalists are trying to take us down a peg or two. Which means we are rising up the pecking order!
Wednesday full back page spread, nice to see the group shot on the back of the Hun.

I had to use a magnifying glass to see Zaine Cordy's scar.

[Scraggers]

Will be interesting to see if he is picked this week.

Multicultural Week ... Can he not be picked ???

[Ozza]

Thoughts on this?

I don't think Bevo would take too kindly to this sort of behaviour.. It's the vibe I get.

Well Jong is never a guaranteed selection - one would think if we were ranking them, Jong is going to be somewhere between 20th and 22nd in this week's consideration. If it came down to a 50/50 between another player and Jongy - and the coach is disappointed with the news - Jong may miss.

For instance - if Bevo is sitting there thinking 'Well I can't play both Stevens and Jong in the midfield...Jong was solid last week but went off to Collingwood for a look, and Stevens has come back and had 38 in the 2s'. Interesting dilemma.

EDIT: I should say, that I don't have a big issue with Jong exploring his options. Its not ideal when it gets out of course, and the whole 'touring the facilities' that goes on is a laugh (I'm sure walking around the facilities is not a significant influencing factor in a players decision to move these days like they'd have been in the 80s/90s). At the end of the year, we need to let a few go off the list as Boyd, Morris and Murphy will all play on - so maybe Jong is in that discussion anyway.
But the reaction at the selection table is an interesting aspect for me given that he is not a senior selection 'lock'.

[Ghost Dog]

Well Jong is never a guaranteed selection - one would think if we were ranking them, Jong is going to be somewhere between 20th and 22nd in this week's consideration. If it came down to a 50/50 between another player and Jongy - and the coach is disappointed with the news - Jong may miss.

For instance - if Bevo is sitting there thinking 'Well I can't play both Stevens and Jong in the midfield...Jong was solid last week but went off to Collingwood for a look, and Stevens has come back and had 38 in the 2s'. Interesting dilemma.

EDIT: I should say, that I don't have a big issue with Jong exploring his options. Its not ideal when it gets out of course, and the whole 'touring the facilities' that goes on is a laugh (I'm sure walking around the facilities is not a significant influencing factor in a players decision to move these days like they'd have been in the 80s/90s). At the end of the year, we need to let a few go off the list as Boyd, Morris and Murphy will all play on - so maybe Jong is in that discussion anyway.
But the reaction at the selection table is an interesting aspect for me given that he is not a senior selection 'lock'.

39 it says in the Hun. Go Koby. Jongy never really uses his speed to break lines enough for me. If he would change his game and take it on a bit more, he might get more games.
He's improved but it's been slow. I can see why he might look elsewhere and why we might not worry too much.

[Bulldog4life]

http://www.sen.com.au/news/afl/07-16/malthouse-if-a-player-met-another-club-without-permission-i-would-be-livid#Jp0mrwqxqzVwVLQy.97

Former Collingwood premiership coach Mick Malthouse says were a player to visit a rival club’s facilities without a mutual agreement he would be absolutely ‘livid’.

This comes as reports emerged Western Bulldogs youngster Lin Jong toured Collingwood’s facilities, days before their win over Sydney.

Jong is out of contract at the end of the season and has played seven games for the Bulldogs in 2016.

He says if it happened when he was coaching, the particular player would be dumped for the rest of the year.

“If I found a player who is challenging the club that I’m going to go because my management have now got me booked into Collingwood or wherever else, with a view of looking at the facilities and moving at the end of the year I’d be livid,” said Malthouse on SEN Breakfast.

“If there’s a mutual agreement that look, we don’t think you’ll be part of us next year and you want to pursue something through the management, ok if you want to see Collingwood or anyone else do so.

“If that’s done behind your back it’s the very fabric of your building.

“Trust is the mortar and if that starts to fray because a player can’t cop what he sees in front of him and can’t wait till the end of the year, then I wouldn’t play him.

“If you have that sort of mindset and do it behind the door and not be open about it, then I’m not sure I could trust you on a match day.”

Malthouse can’t understand why such discussions can’t wait until seasons end and he slammed some player managers who do their business in a clandestine manner

“The kid will say I’ll give it everything I’ve got, but what’s the point of doing it in July when you can still do the same thing at the end of the football season?,” he said.

“I have a real fundamental problem with some managers. I think they’re rogues, they’re pirates, and they’re leeches.

“On the other side you get some really good ones who have a great knowledge, liaise with a football club and talk to the club in an open discussion.”

[westdog54]

So Malthouse would rather be vindictive than try and win a premiership.

Malthouse can't understand why such discussions can't wait until season's end.

That's because there was no trade period or draft when he was a player. And because footballers weren't professional in his time.

They were paid, but they weren't professional.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Being not contracted for next year, if Jong walks, do we get any compensation?

[bulldogtragic]

Being not contracted for next year, if Jong walks, do we get any compensation?

He needs a trade to ensure he gets to the club of his choosing or go PSD where he won't last to Collingwood. He can nominate for the ND but with the points needed for FSs he won't get to Collingwood. So it needs to be a trade if it's GCS or Collingwood.

[LostDoggy]

I hope we pick the best 22 this week. That means Stevens over Jong, Jong is well behind our best 22. He offers a small point of difference, I wish him well but there would be several players ahead of him for selection and a few more will go past him soon. I would have delisted him at the end of the year so a trade would be a massive bonus.

[westdog54]

Being not contracted for next year, if Jong walks, do we get any compensation?

He's not a free agent, so he would have to seek a trade if he was to move.

If we don't delist him, he would have to enter the draft if he wanted to move on.

[1eyedog]

Spot on Mick well said. There's no reason to tour the freaking facilities! I don't care if he's in bed with Collingwood but surely you can sort out most of the details privately? Touring the facilities! It's such an arrogant move from Collingwood but not unexpected. Stupid from Jong and his manager though because it will cause a rift somewhere and potentially make it difficult for him to play out the remainder of the year. He's giving up a lot by undertaking such a blatant activity including playing in another finals series.

Let's get what we can then, in a fit team he's best 22-25 anyway.

[Ghost Dog]

I think the fact most dogs supporters are a bit 'whatever' emphasises where he is in our list's pecking order. Good depth player and ambassador for multiculturalism. Stands up in big games. Average 14 possessions a game. Not outstanding.

[Rocco Jones]

The Malthouse comments genuinely make me lol.

Footy has changed since Malthouse was a good AFL coach, problem is he hasn't. Funny the media go to him and even funnier, fans listen to a guy who is passed it as a coach (fine listen to his footy opinions, but not in terms of modern coaching).

[AndrewP6]

I doubt have a problem with him looking at options. He has struggled to get a regular spot, and if there is a Club that might be able to offer that, that's fine. But I do have a problem with him visiting them mid season. I know it happens in other codes, but I don't like it at all.

[1eyedog]

The Malthouse comments genuinely make me lol.

Footy has changed since Malthouse was a good AFL coach, problem is he hasn't. Funny the media go to him and even funnier, fans listen to a guy who is passed it as a coach (fine listen to his footy opinions, but not in terms of modern coaching).

Sure, but this one facet of our game has not openly changed since Malthouse's time. It happens now like it happened when he was a player / coach but until a mid-season draft scenario comes into play players openly talking to other clubs midway through a season while they are contracted and paid by the club is taboo, always has been. Imagine if it was a top 10 player the board would be up in arms! Imagine if it was a Collingwood top 10 player Eddie would be on the war path. I mean these guys have a massive window at the end of the year to firm up their decisions on the back of a solid due diligence that could be undertaken privately during the year.

I think of it as I think of any business and as a consultant if my boss got wind of me being in bed with a direct competitor my ass would be grass. Same goes.

I think it makes it hard for Jong to play now and I worry about how fans will react to him on the field. I think it was a foolish decision. It's why Callan Ward kept the secret all season, it's a potentially horrible situation.

[hujsh]

What could we realistically expect for Jong? Pick in the 30s if we're lucky? Do Collingwood have anything to offer?

[G-Mo77]

What could we realistically expect for Jong? Pick in the 30s if we're lucky? Do Collingwood have anything to offer?

Yeah late 2nd early 3rd would be about fair value IMO.

[bulldogtragic]

What could we realistically expect for Jong? Pick in the 30s if we're lucky? Do Collingwood have anything to offer?

They're most likely on the hunt for picks to gather points for Daicos & Brown. How about Jong and a high enough draft pick (points wise) for Brodie Grundy? Minson if they want him as a free agent. Would he be a type of ruck we'd be looking at? Because they used pick 5 & 23 already on Aish & Treloar they might need to give something of quality up to do dverything they want to do.

[Rocco Jones]

I think their 2nd pick would be 26 if we had the draft tomorrow. If Jong wants to go, I would be very happy with pick 26.

[Rocco Jones]

They're most likely on the hunt for picks to gather points for Daicos & Brown. How about Jong and a high enough draft pick (points wise) for Brodie Grundy? Minson if they want him as a free agent. Would he be a type of ruck we'd be looking at? Because they used pick 5 & 23 already on Aish & Treloar they might need to give something of quality up to do dverything they want to do.

Why would they trade Grundy? Part of why Witts is looking at leaving/they are willing to trade him is that they see Grundy as their clear #1. As much as I would love it to be the case, the other clubs aren't in the business to help out the Bulldogs.

[bulldogtragic]

Why would they trade Grundy? Part of why Witts is looking at leaving/they are willing to trade him is that they see Grundy as their clear #1. As much as I would love it to be the case, the other clubs aren't in the business to help out the Bulldogs.

If they get draft points to secure both father/sons and a player they want (Jong) and can get Minson as a spare for nothing it's something. They've given up picks 5 & 23 already, I think they'll get 28 for Freeman this year, but they need loads more points. So someone may need to go for them to get a good draft pick.

[bornadog]

Funny how the younger generation don't worry if Jong is openly touring facilities and the older generation see an issue. Mick Malthouse maybe passed it as a coach, but he managed thousands of young men and knows what he is talking about. Similarly Robert Walls came out with the same opinion today.

My issue is where does it stop? If ten players were out of contract and they were all seen touring other facilities, when it is only 8 weeks to finals, what would woofers think then?

I know that any company that I worked at in the past, if the boss knew I was leaving to a competitor, then the corporate policy was see you later.

[Mantis]

Sure, but this one facet of our game has not openly changed since Malthouse's time. It happens now like it happened when he was a player / coach but until a mid-season draft scenario comes into play players openly talking to other clubs midway through a season while they are contracted and paid by the club is taboo, always has been. Imagine if it was a top 10 player the board would be up in arms! Imagine if it was a Collingwood top 10 player Eddie would be on the war path. I mean these guys have a massive window at the end of the year to firm up their decisions on the back of a solid due diligence that could be undertaken privately during the year.

I think of it as I think of any business and as a consultant if my boss got wind of me being in bed with a direct competitor my ass would be grass. Same goes.

I think it makes it hard for Jong to play now and I worry about how fans will react to him on the field. I think it was a foolish decision. It's why Callan Ward kept the secret all season, it's a potentially horrible situation.

If he was a top 10 player I'm sure he would be already re-signed (like we have done with all top 10 players).. But as pointed out he fits somehere in the 22-25 category and at a strong & young team like ours he has probably been presented with a less than satisfactory (in his & mangers eyes) contract and is looking to explore his options.

My understanding was that Ward didn't decide until late in the piece with our bungled efforts to re-sign him not helping the situation.

[strebla]

I remember asking Tony Mcguiness what he was going to do when Port originally got the AFL licence. There were about 8 weeks to go in the season and he told me straight out I love this club but my life is in Adelaid. I made me respect him even more as he could have said not sure mate and moved on but his honesty and integrity were more important to him. I like Lin and think he will be a player but I don't see a first 22 spot for him in our team. If he decides to go I wish him well.

[ledge]

Ok say he does want to go to the pies and we agree to a deal .. Who do you think we would want and who do you think the pies would give up.
I personally think their list is quite good but the coaching is terrible, we might get a jewel they can't see, or a player who isn't happy and wants a new place and will prosper.
Who do you think we could get for Jong?

[Twodogs]

He's not a free agent, so he would have to seek a trade if he was to move.

If we don't delist him, he would have to enter the draft if he wanted to move on.

I think there is a Delisted Free Agent category. It's how Koby Stevens came to us.

[lemmon]

I think it gives us some power, if they want Jong badly enough to have him tour the facilities it gives us some remit to get something pretty decent back the other way. What about Corey Gault? The little Ive seen is impressive

[azabob]

I think there is a Delisted Free Agent category. It's how Koby Stevens came to us.

Didn't we trade a pick for Stevens?

Hamiling was a delisted free agent.

[ratsmac]

If he was a top 10 player I'm sure he would be already re-signed (like we have done with all top 10 players).. But as pointed out he fits somehere in the 22-25 category and at a strong & young team like ours he has probably been presented with a less than satisfactory (in his & mangers eyes) contract and is looking to explore his options.

My understanding was that Ward didn't decide until late in the piece with our bungled efforts to re-sign him not helping the situation.

And GWS didn't have facilities to tour anyway!

I don't like that Jong toured their facilities either. It's not a good look imo. If he can broker a much better deal with Collingwood than he can with us, so be it. He's not exactly winning games off his own boot. He's a fringe player that plays his role when selected. I like him and would love him to stay. He's simply looking after himself. I wish him well whatever he decides to do.

[Hotdog60]

Maybe Lin's manager leaked it so the Dogs might up their offer. If not it get the Wobbles interested.
No problem if he wants to go, just doing mid season like others.

[GVGjr]

Didn't we trade a pick for Stevens?

Hamiling was a delisted free agent.

Correct.

The Pies interest in Jong could be a positive for both clubs and a player. As BT pointed out the Pies will need some FS points and we might have some currency for them.

[Bulldog4life]

Mark Stevens says Jong out for Stevens

[comrade]

Mark Stevens says Jong out for Stevens

You don't mess with Bevo's emotions and get away with it.

All jokes aside, if Jong doesn't play, I doubt it would be due to Jong assessing his options and more to do with the fact that Stevens is the superior player.

[chef]

That might be the end of Jong for the rest of the season.

[F'scary]

Will be interesting to see if he is picked this week.


Thoughts on this?

I don't think Bevo would take too kindly to this sort of behaviour.. It's the vibe I get.

The more games we give him in the back half of this season, the higher his trade value.

I'm predicting he'll play every remaining game and we will get a pick in the late 20's to early 30' for him from a team other than Collingwood and he will get a 3 year deal.

[EasternWest]

That might be the end of Jong for the rest of the season.

I hope not, even if it's true. If Jong's form warrants selection he should play. If he, or anyone for that matter, investigates their options during the year I just don't care. Whilst I love our players, if we can get a better version of them, we would do it in a second. I would find it a bit hypocritical of us to get upset when a player applies the same theory in regards to their career/contract/future.

I made comments of the same ilk when the Callan Ward scenario went down and I stand by them. In a professional league, where it is players careers and livelihoods at sctake, I have no problem at all with them exploring what other options out there may suit them better.

I'd be disappointed to lose Jong, but in no way would I be angry at him even he got a better deal for himself elsewhere.

[Mantis]

You don't mess with Bevo's emotions and get away with it.

All jokes aside, if Jong doesn't play, I doubt it would be due to Jong assessing his options and more to do with the fact that Stevens is the superior player.

Bevo seems to take everything pretty personally so it wouldn't surprise me.

As far as who is the better player.. I think that is very much up to personal opinion as I would think that it's pretty close bnetween the 2.

[Ghost Dog]

39 possessions in the V. Good swap for Jong despite all this.

[comrade]

AFL 360 commented on the Jong thing. Consensus was that touring the opposition facilities mid season is a tad too far. All well and good to have discussions via your manager, but actually going for a tour means your head isn't totally at the club you're contracted at.

Thoughts?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I don't really understand exactly why a player has to tour another club's facility? The Filth are a professional club, one of the richest to boot. I'm pretty sure Lin can be confident the weight room isn't cordial bottles full of sand.

[chef]

AFL 360 commented on the Jong thing. Consensus was that touring the opposition facilities mid season is a tad too far. All well and good to have discussions via your manager, but actually going for a tour means your head isn't totally at the club you're contracted at.

Thoughts?

Seems a dumb move by Jong. Do you really need to do a walk through during the season, its not like he wouldnt have a fair idea of what its like.

[comrade]

Bevo seems to take everything pretty personally so it wouldn't surprise me.

As far as who is the better player.. I think that is very much up to personal opinion as I would think that it's pretty close bnetween the 2.

I don't mind that Bevo takes things personally when it comes to loyalty. He's a player advocate - always defending ours and other clubs players.

It's old school, but if cultivating that sense of loyalty is the secret to getting the players on board, so be it. If you do something to betray that loyalty - and in my opinion, touring an opposition's facilities mid season a few days before a game is treading a fine line - you run the risk of being torched.

If it was a clandestine meeting/tour without the acknowledgement of the club, Jong took a risk and it may backfire on him.

[azabob]

I think we should push for a late second round draft pick rather than a player.

With such an even draft it may be a good time to hit the draft again.

[Mantis]

39 possessions in the V. Good swap for Jong despite all this.

37.

But I'm not sure it means much as Jong seems to be a lock to be in our best couple of players every time he plays in the VFL too.

[azabob]

According to the herald sun

We have offered Lin Jong a 2 year deal.

Collingwood have since cooled on Jong!!

[Remi Moses]

Might be a ploy from Scott Lucas (manager) to weed out a better deal with the dogs .
Got no issue with Lin or Lucas talking to potential suitors, but the whole "touring the facility" is just nonsense.
Wow ! Collingwood's gotta better gym than the dogs

[comrade]

Hey there's Pendles, that guy's almost as good as Bonti! ;)

[bulldogtragic]

I think we should push for a late second round draft pick rather than a player.

With such an even draft it may be a good time to hit the draft again.

We don't have to exclusively deal with Collingwood, perhaps if Prestia leaves GCS might pursue Jong again. If we're into Vardy as reported we could deal with Collingwood though:

Vardy> Dogs - Jong> Collingwood - ???> Geelong

[bornadog]

I don't mind that Bevo takes things personally when it comes to loyalty. He's a player advocate - always defending ours and other clubs players.

It's old school, but if cultivating that sense of loyalty is the secret to getting the players on board, so be it. If you do something to betray that loyalty - and in my opinion, touring an opposition's facilities mid season a few days before a game is treading a fine line - you run the risk of being torched.

If it was a clandestine meeting/tour without the acknowledgement of the club, Jong took a risk and it may backfire on him.

I don't believe there is one club that would be happy to find out their player toured another clubs premises. PLayers should not be seen anywhere near another clubs facilities.

[FrediKanoute]

I personally don't have a problem. A little like j Grant last year - he's playing games, but either the club haven't offered him a new deal or the deal doesn't suit. In my mind he is a required player, but one that has trade value.

[jeemak]

An article from AFL web site (not by the Grub):

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2016-07-06/dogs-trust-in-jong-strong-despite-pies-visit

It's quoting JJ confirming he has complete trust in his team mates, understanding that there's a business side to the game the club and the player needs to work through.

Did note that Jong was a late withdrawal from the launch of Multicultural Round.

[ledge]

Now Barrett has started on Stevens saying he isn't happy with what we have offered and clubs are circling !
My god I hope both stay that will Make Barrett look like a right idiot with a cause.

[bulldogtragic]

Now Barrett has started on Stevens saying he isn't happy with what we have offered and clubs are circling !
My god I hope both stay that will Make Barrett look like a right idiot with a cause.

Stevens has probably got some serious currency in the market. Players come and go, without touring opposition clubs just before clutch games mid season. If we turned Jong into say Vardy (who we are reported looking into) and Stevens (with some extra cream) into a Prestia (who we are reported looking into) or like a Steve Hill, that's probably not the worst outcome in the world with Clay Smith back and Dunkley & Webb earmarked for inside grunt work that Jong & Stevens provide and we get the ruck/forward and midfield class user we allegedly want.

[FrediKanoute]

I'd be less happier at losing Stevens as well as Jong

[Hotdog60]

If players go you would think it's contract length or money as I would think that this team is a strong chance to play in the big dance within the next few years and the likes of Collingwood are not pressing at this point.

Maybe the days of playing and winning a grand final are not such an incentive as it was in the past.

[bornadog]

Barrett is basically on the war path and any small issue will be blown out of all proportions.

[Bulldog Joe]

Barrett is basically on the war path and any small issue will be blown out of all proportions.

I would read that as EVERY SMALL ISSUE.

[always right]

The fact that other clubs are chasing our players is a good thing. We have to do some smart trading over the next twelve months to fine tune our list with the types of players we need. Anyone who sits outside our best 22 should be on the table.

[Ghost Dog]

Barrett is basically on the war path and any small issue will be blown out of all proportions.

Well, actually he was pretty complimentary of our win V Swans. Probably he doesn't want to upset the bigger clubs and sees us as easy pickings I guess. Like Hutchy, busy going through people's bins to get what he can.
Seagull Barrett, loves easy pickings.

[Axe Man]

Putting aside to debate about whether he should have toured the Pies facilities or not - I worry about how he will perform if he is picked this week.

We have seen a couple of times when he's been reported during a match he then goes missing. It seems to play on his mind and I imagine all this publicity could have a negative effect on him.

Send him back to the VFL as he isn't in the best 22 this week. I'm sure he will get another opportunity at senior level soon once this dies down a little.

[The Underdog]

Stevens has probably got some serious currency in the market. Players come and go, without touring opposition clubs just before clutch games mid season. If we turned Jong into say Vardy (who we are reported looking into) and Stevens (with some extra cream) into a Prestia (who we are reported looking into) or like a Steve Hill, that's probably not the worst outcome in the world with Clay Smith back and Dunkley & Webb earmarked for inside grunt work that Jong & Stevens provide and we get the ruck/forward and midfield class user we allegedly want.

I love Clay, but if you want to factor him into long term planning then you better have a hell of a back up plan

[Bulldog4life]

If players go you would think it's contract length or money as I would think that this team is a strong chance to play in the big dance within the next few years and the likes of Collingwood are not pressing at this point.

Maybe the days of playing and winning a grand final are not such an incentive as it was in the past.

It is money for me. The pie is only so big. Unfortunately Stevens and Jong might not be the only players wanting more.Bound to happen.

[jeemak]

It is money for me. The pie is only so big. Unfortunately Stevens and Jong might not be the only players wanting more.Bound to happen.

I could imagine players seeking tenure as a priority these coming three years given our prospects of going deep into finals being pretty good.

$50k a year pre tax when you're already in the highest bracket isn't likely to make a huge difference.

[bornadog]

Really this is not on:


* Question: "Did you speak to Lin Jong when he was here the other night?"
Buckley: "Yeah, I did"

* Buckley says he understands if Luke Beveridge would be angry about Lin Jong approach

I can understand if our club is pissed off with Jong and Collingwood.

[Bulldog4life]

Really this is not on:



I can understand if our club is pissed off with Jong and Collingwood.

You could imagine Eddie and Collingwood if Bevo had been speaking to one of their players on own turf. We would never hear the end of it.

[ledge]

It happens all the time .. How do we know Bevo didn't say go explore your options?

[bornadog]

It happens all the time .. How do we know Bevo didn't say go explore your options?

Several coaches (Roos, Hardwick) say they would never entertain this.

Anyway, if you think it happens all the time, then doesn't make it right.

[Ozza]

I highly doubt Stevens would strongly consider moving to a third club at the age of 25 - only 60-odd games into his career.

Confident he and the club will work out a deal. Koby has played plenty of senior footy with us and appears to be popular amongst the playing group. Not concerned about this one.

[strebla]

I certainly can't see him going to Freo as he has already departed from the Eagles. I really don't like the idea of losing both Jong and Stevens even with Dunkley likely to step up next year.

[Mantis]

I highly doubt Stevens would strongly consider moving to a third club at the age of 25 - only 60-odd games into his career.

Confident he and the club will work out a deal. Koby has played plenty of senior footy with us and appears to be popular amongst the playing group. Not concerned about this one.

I guess it would depend on what the terms were.

I would think for us it would be a 2 yr deal at $350k per season... For a team with a battling midfield (Ess or GC) he might get 3 to 4 at $450k.

He is very much a borderline best 22 player so wouldn't hate him leaving if we could improve our draft position.

[Ghost Dog]

Make an example of Jongy! The walk of shame....
Butt naked all the way to Footscray station.

[bornadog]

Make an example of Jongy! The walk of shame....
Butt naked all the way to Footscray station.

Is that you High Sparrow :D

[Ghost Dog]

Is that you High Sparrow :D

That be Master Beveridge. Scourge of the filthy black and white wildlings...:D

[Bulldog4life]

More info on 10 news in a few minutes

[Bulldog4life]

More info on 10 news in a few minutes

Sorry not in a few minutes in the sports section about 5.40pm

[comrade]

Sorry not in a few minutes in the sports section about 5.40pm

????

[Eastdog]

????

It was on more last night I think about Lin Jong. Haven't watched 10 sport tonight.

[Bulldog4life]

????

Just had Buckley on saying he met Jong. Said he would do the same thing again. Said he understood if Bevo not happy

[whythelongface]

Funny how the younger generation don't worry if Jong is openly touring facilities and the older generation see an issue. Mick Malthouse maybe passed it as a coach, but he managed thousands of young men and knows what he is talking about. Similarly Robert Walls came out with the same opinion today.

My issue is where does it stop? If ten players were out of contract and they were all seen touring other facilities, when it is only 8 weeks to finals, what would woofers think then?

I know that any company that I worked at in the past, if the boss knew I was leaving to a competitor, then the corporate policy was see you later.

I'm not that young and don't have an issue with Jong plying his trade elsewhere and touring another club's facilities. It is a business and players need to determine if for themselves if the suitor is a potential fit.

[F'scary]

There might be a particular issue with Jong (and perhaps one or two more) - they feel they are taken for granted. One year deals, relatively modest income. Mark my words, this is the start of a few potential defections by players whose loyalty is assumed as a given.

Strong list problem.

[Bulldog4life]

There might be a particular issue with Jong (and perhaps one or two more) - they feel they are taken for granted. One year deals, relatively modest income. Mark my words, this is the start of a few potential defections by players whose loyalty is assumed as a given.

Strong list problem.

Bomber Thompson said at Geelong most players took payments under what they were worth as they wanted to stay together and win premierships

[jeemak]

There might be a particular issue with Jong (and perhaps one or two more) - they feel they are taken for granted. One year deals, relatively modest income. Mark my words, this is the start of a few potential defections by players whose loyalty is assumed as a given.

Strong list problem.

I don't see it as something to ignore, though it's not something I'd be too worried about. A player like Jong certainly isn't material to our future success, and attributes aside, his overall quality rating is easily enough attained elsewhere.

Stevens is more of a concern, but if we have to lose a Jong to keep a Stevens then so be it. We're not here to keep the band together, we're here to win a Flag.

[jeemak]

Bomber Thompson said at Geelong most players took payments under what they were worth as they wanted to stay together and win premierships

This is already happening with us. Hunter is our most recent player with a profile to sign for a fair bit less than what he's worth in the open.

[Mantis]

Bomber Thompson said at Geelong most players took payments under what they were worth as they wanted to stay together and win premierships

Did this include fringe players too?

Pretty easy for one of their top 12-15 players to get $50k under value whilst playing in a gun team. Different story if you are getting $100k less than what's available on the open market.. and playing VFL.

[jeemak]

Did this include fringe players too?

Pretty easy for one of their top 12-15 players to get $50k under value whilst playing in a gun team. Different story if you are getting $100k less than what's available on the open market.. and playing VFL.

Correct.

That's why years of consistent drafting is important. Guys like Jong are replaced easily enough.

[GVGjr]

Lin Jong needs to get another manager. No decent manager would organise a tour of another Melbourne team facilities for a Melbourne based player.

Surely the commonsense approach would be for his manager to invite Jong and Buckley to his office and give both of them the chance to talk about 2017 and beyond. Touring another facility is just stupid.

I'm half tempted to post something on Twitter advising Jong not worry about finding another club, his first priority is to find a decent manager.

[Bulldog4life]

Did this include fringe players too?

Pretty easy for one of their top 12-15 players to get $50k under value whilst playing in a gun team. Different story if you are getting $100k less than what's available on the open market.. and playing VFL.

Not sure. He said it on AFL360 Wed nite. Best 22 I presumed

[Mantis]

Not sure. He said it on AFL360 Wed nite. Best 22 I presumed

It's an easy decision for best 22 players isn't it.

But players like Callan, Playfair, Gardiner, Prismall, D.Johnson, Djerrkura & Mumford all departed through their goldern era for more opportunity & no doubt more $$. All were fringe players who could have stayed and battled for the last few spots in the team, but money talks and when the best 15 are getting paid handsomely there isn't much left for the rest.

[jeemak]

Jong, Stevens and our second round selection for Jack Watts and Melbourne's third round?

[bornadog]

Jong, Stevens and our second round selection for Jack Watts and Melbourne's third round?

Watts is signing a new deal, I think.

[Remi Moses]

if we could place Jong and Stevens's effort into Watts I'd do it .

[jeemak]

Our list needs outside polish. Watts is excellent in that area and his attitude is improving.

[hujsh]

It's an easy decision for best 22 players isn't it.

But players like Callan, Playfair, Gardiner, Prismall, D.Johnson, Djerrkura & Mumford all departed through their goldern era for more opportunity & no doubt more $$. All were fringe players who could have stayed and battled for the last few spots in the team, but money talks and when the best 15 are getting paid handsomely there isn't much left for the rest.
I think Mumford's the exception there. Pretty sure he became their no1 ruck before he left but they couldn't pay him what he wanted.

The rest were certainly fringe.

[Mantis]

I think Mumford's the exception there. Pretty sure he became their no1 ruck before he left but they couldn't pay him what he wanted.

The rest were certainly fringe.

Ottens was still the main man until the end of 2011.. Mumford left at the end of 2009.

Mumford played pretty much all of 2009, but was dropped just before the finals when Ottens returned to the team from a long term injury.

As explained there was a big difference in what Geel & Syd were willing to pay.

[ledge]

We should all get behind Jong this week , he is playing so obviously the club has no problem with it and cheering him on Will make him feel the love rather than berating him for something he might not even do ..
I don't want us to lower to the Collingwood supporters and what they did with Cloke when rumours were abound and didn't end up being true.
Let's make it hard for him to leave emotionally at least .

[Ghost Dog]

Shave Jack Watt's head, make him live in Sunshine, with Barry Hall as his housemate and early morning training with Matt Boyd.
Then I would be prepared to let him into our club.

[Twodogs]

Watts is at his peak as a trading commodity surely? He's having the one half decent year of his career-the one you look back at and say "I forgot Jack Watts kicked 45 goals in 2016"

[SlimPickens]

One silver lining of Lin touring the pies facility, it makes the opening round blockbuster against the Pies idea a more tantalising prospect.

[Axe Man]

Peter Gordon weighs in:

THE Western Bulldogs have labelled Collingwood’s recruiting tactics “not appropriate” as tensions simmer over Lin Jong’s stealth tour of the Magpies’ facilities.

Collingwood coach Nathan Buckley says he spoke with Western Bulldog Lin Jong during the midfielder’s visit last week – and would do it again.

Jong, 23, retained his spot for the Dogs’ clash against Richmond on Saturday night after receiving widespread support from teammates and coaching staff.

Dogs’ president Peter Gordon today said the practice of inviting rival players on to the club’s premises in-season to inspect their training base was overstepping the mark.

“No, I wouldn’t consider that appropriate,” Gordon told Jon Faine on ABC 774.

“I don’t think that most clubs would be inviting current opposition players into their own facilities during the course of the season.”

Gordon said it was accepted that players and their managers were talking to rival clubs, but setting foot inside a rival club’s facilities was a step too far.

The president suggested that Jong, 23, and his manager, Nick Gieschen, may regret the move.

But the Dogs remain confident the 188cm midfielder will stay at the club beyond this season.

“Is it unusual for the player to be given a tour of the (Pies’) facilities? I think it is slightly more unusual (than waiting until after the season),” Gordon sad.

“I’m sure that his management would give him advice about that and they both may regret that they chose to do it in that way.

“But we are not going to stop our players from canvassing what are the best options.

“We want them to stay at the Bulldogs because they think it is the best deal and the best place for them to achieve success both in terms of their financial careers and success on the field.

“I hope Lin gets to that position and I’m fully confident that he will.”

Jong has played 30 games in his five seasons at the kennel and has also attracted interest from Gold Coast.

Gordon said the Dogs rated Jong highly.

“I really like Lin ... I hope very much he finishes his career at the Bulldogs,” he said.

“I think his full potential is unrealised and I can understand (why) Collingwood and a number of clubs are interested in him.

“You would be naive, and I’m not, to think that discussions between clubs and players from other cubs don’t go on at this time of year.”

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/collingwood/nathan-buckley-says-hed-meet-with-opposition-players-midseason-again/news-story/946108d6a0178bbe4c538243418653d9

[bornadog]

Heard that this morning on Peter's 9.30 Friday timeslot.

The reason this keeps coming up is not because it's just Jong, but it is a principal thing that any player could do. I think it has divided people, some think there is nothing wrong with it and others are appalled.

[always right]

Didn't Tom Boyd inspect our facilities mid contract?

[bornadog]

Didn't Tom Boyd inspect our facilities mid contract?

I don't believe so, but it is rumoured he met at Peters house.

[always right]

I don't believe so, but it is rumoured he met at Peters house.

Hmmm...people in glass houses....

[Axe Man]

Hmmm...people in glass houses....

Not really. I think the most commonly held view (as Peter Gordon has said above) is that it's accepted that players and their managers will talk to other clubs during the year but touring another club's facilities is not on.

We met Tom and Liam Pickering quietly and nobody knew at the time, no issue. Had he been seen walking around Whitten Oval that would have been a problem.

[bornadog]

Not really. I think the most commonly held view (as Peter Gordon has said above) is that it's accepted that players and their managers will talk to other clubs during the year but touring another club's facilities is not on.

We met Tom and Liam Pickering quietly and nobody knew at the time, no issue. Had he been seen walking around Whitten Oval that would have been a problem.

Exactly.

[Before I Die]

Not really. I think the most commonly held view (as Peter Gordon has said above) is that it's accepted that players and their managers will talk to other clubs during the year but touring another club's facilities is not on.

We met Tom and Liam Pickering quietly and nobody knew at the time, no issue. Had he been seen walking around Whitten Oval that would have been a problem.

So the practice is acceptable, it's just not acceptable to get caught. Which means if asked, it is ok to lie, unless of course you were seen. Then it is unacceptable. Of course the most abhorrent option is to be upfront, like Henderson, because then you are a pariah and won't get picked again.

Not directed at you Axe Man, just a comment on the morality of the whole thing. but I guess the game is all about passion and not about logic. Collingwood need to spend a few of their megabucks and make a 3D virtual walkthrough of their elite training centre. Could save them a lot of trouble.

[LostDoggy]

Watts is at his peak as a trading commodity surely? He's having the one half decent year of his career


Dale Thomas says hello :)

[bornadog]

So the practice is acceptable, it's just not acceptable to get caught. Which means if asked, it is ok to lie, unless of course you were seen. Then it is unacceptable. Of course the most abhorrent option is to be upfront, like Henderson, because then you are a pariah and won't get picked again.

Not directed at you Axe Man, just a comment on the morality of the whole thing. but I guess the game is all about passion and not about logic. Collingwood need to spend a few of their megabucks and make a 3D virtual walkthrough of their elite training centre. Could save them a lot of trouble.
Have you ever been to a job interview while still employed?

[EasternWest]

Hmmm...people in glass houses....

I'm with you. But more to the point, I don't care.

Players have to look after their best interests after all. It's uncomfortable because it's unusual, but I think it'll just be more common from hereon out.

I've never had cause to question Jong's effort in the past, and I'm confident that he'll play the same way for as long as he's in our colours. And in there's too, I guess if that is what eventuates.

[Before I Die]

Have you ever been to a job interview while still employed?

Only under the overall umbrella of the one parent company. However, I directly manage a significant number of people and regularly have staff coming and going.

I appreciate that my view may be a minority view, I just find the whole thing bemusing. It all seems on a par with farting. Everyone does it. It's ok in private. Don't do it publicly. Deny it if you can. Never purposely do it in the boss's office.

[ledge]

I liked Roughys thoughts on it and I think it's great the players are right behind him.. Maybe it's that little thing that makes him stay.
Don't push him away, pull him closer .

[always right]

I think people are splitting hairs. Boyd visited the president's home.

I don't care as long as Jong gives 100% effort. Any sign that he isn't and he gets dropped.

[bulldogtragic]

My Jong, my Jong, don't lie to me
Tell me where did you tour last night?
In the pies, in the pies
Where the sun don't ever shine
I would shiver the whole night through

My Jong, my Jong, where will you go?
I'm going where the cold wind blows (Whitten Oval)

In the pies, in the pies
Where the sun don't ever shine
I would shiver the whole night through

Their coach, was a hard working man
Just about 10 miles from here
His figjam head was found in a nice new gym
But his coaching hype has never been found

My Jong, my Jong, don't lie to me
Tell me where did you tour last night?
In the pies, in the pies
Where the sun won't ever shine
You will shiver the whole night through

[F'scary]

I think Jong's manager has opted for a strategy to pressure the Bulldogs to make a good offer. I could see Lin being offered a 3 year deal at more than one other club. Question is, do we think he is worth a 3 year deal?

[ledge]

I think Jong's manager has opted for a strategy to pressure the Bulldogs to make a good offer. I could see Lin being offered a 3 year deal at more than one other club. Question is, do we think he is worth a 3 year deal?

Yeah he is young and he is only going to get better.
He certainly isn't a list clogger, I would presume he is looking around for longer deal and more game time.

[LostDoggy]

Bubba Smith saying before last nights game on 3AW that they presented Jong with a Filth jumper and told him if he was going to the Filth,that he'd have to get some tatts and lose a few teeth.;)

[ledge]

Bubba Smith saying before last nights game on 3AW that they presented Jong with a Filth jumper and told him if he was going to the Filth,that he'd have to get some tatts and lose a few teeth.;)

It was funny on game day they asked stringer about it and he replied " wish I got an invite too"
Just shows how stupid the media is in blowing up things.
It's a common thing obviously when coming out of contract to weigh up options and all clubs do it.
Obviously the players and coach have no problem with it and realise it's a business .. And it's great the players haven't ostracised him. He won't want to leave a bunch of mates ..if the offer isn't a huge difference and it also depends how important the club see him.
For all we know the club night see someone on the pies list we want more than Jong so we have contacted the pies .. It's all undercover stuff like the Boyd deal everyone thought it was Patton even the press.

[Twodogs]

It was funny on game day they asked stringer about it and he replied " wish I got an invite too"
Just shows how stupid the media is in blowing up things.
It's a common thing obviously when coming out of contract to weigh up options and all clubs do it.
Obviously the players and coach have no problem with it and realise it's a business .. And it's great the players haven't ostracised him. He won't want to leave a bunch of mates ..if the offer isn't a huge difference and it also depends how important the club see him.
For all we know the club night see someone on the pies list we want more than Jong so we have contacted the pies .. It's all undercover stuff like the Boyd deal everyone thought it was Patton even the press.

They had convinced themselves it was Jonathan Patton hadn't they? And then he did his knee just before the end of the season.

[bornadog]

Obviously the players and coach have no problem with it and realise it's a business .

The players are just saying that so they can show the public all is well at the club.

Coaches do not like it one bit and many came out during the week saying so - Roos, Hardwick, even Buckley said he wouldn't like it. Peter Gordon wasn't happy, and pretty sure Bevo is not happy one bit. Yes, they know it happens, but they would rather not know which player it is. It is just like any work place.

[Ghost Dog]

Thought he was better. Maybe he should go back again this week!

[Twodogs]

Thought he was better. Maybe he should go back again this week!


We could do a swap. He could train there and one of their guys could train with us.

[Mofra]

We could do a swap. He could train there and one of their guys could train with us.
I'm sure Pendles would jump at the chance to be Bont's understudy ;)

[Ozza]

Interesting to hear that Bevo confirmed that Jongy has a two year deal on the table from us.

While I can understand how a player would look at a longer term, more lucrative option - personally, I hope we don't budge on ours.
2 years is absolute MAX at this stage IMO. Club knows best, but to me - he's a one + one depending on performance/ability to crack the senior team.

[Happy Days]

Got it on good word Lin doesn't want to leave.

[SlimPickens]

Got it on good word Lin doesn't want to leave.


Bought a house in the west last year, no doubt just wants to sure up his future. I doubt he'll leave also.

[ledge]

Think it was more his manager organising it and you don't pay a manager to do nothing.
Buckley did say his house was being renovated so it wouldn't have been there.. Sounds like amateur hour, it happens sometimes the best laid plans etc etc
No big deal , seems the press were trying to make something of it but even Robbo said it was common in the end when he investigated it with other clubs.
Personally I think he will sign with us . We have all backed him even the supporters.. It's only the freaks at the pies who turn on their own eg Cloke when the press started rumours on him leaving .. Then he stayed and the supporters had egg on their face.

[ledge]

Bevo did say last night he loves him, the players love him and he is a much wanted player with us.

[Twodogs]

Think it was more his manager organising it and you don't pay a manager to do nothing.
Buckley did say his house was being renovated so it wouldn't have been there.. Sounds like amateur hour, it happens sometimes the best laid plans etc etc
No big deal , seems the press were trying to make something of it but even Robbo said it was common in the end when he investigated it with other clubs.
Personally I think he will sign with us . We have all backed him even the supporters.. It's only the freaks at the pies who turn on their own eg Cloke when the press started rumours on him leaving .. Then he stayed and the supporters had egg on their face.

You don't pay him to lead you up the garden path either. Whether the manager thought "great, get Lin a bigger contract and my percentage goes up as well" or was being deliberately mischievous I think it's the sort of advice/management that Lin could do without.

[Bulldog4life]

I had previously said I thought he manager is Scott Lucas but it isn't. It is Nick Gieschen whoever that is.

[bulldogtragic]

I had previously said I thought he manager is Scott Lucas but it isn't. It is Nick Gieschen whoever that is.

Jeff's son. Doesn't sound very bright.

[Axe Man]

Western Bulldog Lin Jong weighs two-year offer to stay at Whitten Oval (http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/western-bulldog-lin-jong-weighs-twoyear-offer-to-stay-at-whitten-oval-20160712-gq45us.html)

Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge has revealed Lin Jong has a two-year contract offer on the table to stay at the club, and did so at the time he toured Collingwood's facilities.

News that Jong met with Magpies coach Nathan Buckley at the club's headquarters has caused heated debate in AFL circles.

With both Collingwood and the Bulldogs seeming to go back and forth on the issue of how appropriate it is to meet a player from another team on club premises, Beveridge is now hopeful the midfield utility will sign the contract extension.

"Jongy's probably not far away from saying to us, 'I want to sign on the dotted line' or, 'nah, I want to wait'," Beveridge said.

"It's a two-year offer, it's not a one-year offer.

"We love Jongy. We think he makes valuable contributions and he's only going to improve so he's a really important player for us. We don't want to lose him."

The 23-year-old has played just 31 games for the Bulldogs, averaging 15 disposals and two clearances.

The fact Jong had an offer on the table from the Bulldogs at the time he visited Collingwood adds intrigue to the situation and leaves the Bulldog with a difficult decision to make in the coming weeks.

"The only thing that surprised me is where the meeting was," Beveridge said on Tuesday.

"I think Collingwood [should] go for their life and Jongy's well within his rights to have a meeting but as I said, you've just got to keep it secret."

While Beveridge said he's not angry the meeting took place, he was clearly unhappy the matter became public.

"There's no double standards here, we'd do it as well but we just wouldn't do it here.

"We wouldn't do it at the Whitten Oval because you've got to keep it behind closed doors and make sure it doesn't get out, that's common practice."

Meantime, as the Bulldogs prepare for Saturday night's clash with Gold Coast in Cairns, Beveridge has confirmed midfield bull Tom Liberatore won't make the trip north after injuring his ribs.

Beveridge said Liberatore has a small crack and significant bruising and the medical staff were concerned the altitude and cabin pressure of a plane trip may have a negative impact.

He said Liberatore is likely to only miss one week and may well have played this week if the Bulldogs were playing a home game.

The other Tom – Boyd – is once again a chance to come back into the senior side, but Beveridge said it will be more than him that makes the decision.

​The big money forward was suspended indefinitely after an off-field altercation with teammate Zayne Cordy, but is moving closer to a senior return by the week.

"He probably didn't play as well as he did the week before at VFL level, so if we're picking it on form we've got to consider that at match committee.

"I think it's time ... we're almost ready to put it behind us. Both him and Zayne have been pretty contrite and have paid their penance but it's got to be up to everyone that that's enough, because I'm not the one playing with Tommy.

"I'm just looking forward to getting him back in – we all are – and seeing his contribution, because we are ready to get one of the bigs in again."

[bulldogtragic]

So it's about dollars presumably. I wonder how much more he wants? $50-75,000 a season more maybe?

[EasternWest]

So it's about dollars presumably. I wonder how much more he wants? $50-75,000 a season more maybe?

What if it was the same money or thereabouts but an extra year?

I like Jong. He's a good story and I think he's got more in him, but if he made the decision to leave for a longer/better contract, I wouldn't hold it against him.

[bulldogtragic]

What if it was the same money or thereabouts but an extra year?

I like Jong. He's a good story and I think he's got more in him, but if he made the decision to leave for a longer/better contract, I wouldn't hold it against him.

If someone is happy to give him three years, good luck to them both. 2 years and ok salary is where he is at. It's his next contract that's his pay day if he continues to develop.

[EasternWest]

If someone is happy to give him three years, good luck to them both. 2 years and ok salary is where he is at. It's his next contract that's his pay day if he continues to develop.

I agree, but we're talking a speculative industry where "continuing to develop" isn't a sure thing.

Two years is probably about right at our club, and I hope he stays.

[hujsh]

If someone is happy to give him three years, good luck to them both. 2 years and ok salary is where he is at. It's his next contract that's his pay day if he continues to develop.


I agree, but we're talking a speculative industry where "continuing to develop" isn't a sure thing.

Two years is probably about right at our club, and I hope he stays.

The last two players to leave the club for 3 year deals haven't gone on to be that great.

[EasternWest]

The last two players to leave the club for 3 year deals haven't gone on to be that great.

Lin Jong's already five times the player either of those are and don't even remotely compare.

[jeemak]

If someone is happy to give him three years, good luck to them both. 2 years and ok salary is where he is at. It's his next contract that's his pay day if he continues to develop.

I agree with this. It's line ball whether he'll improve on his current output and I don't want to lock him in for any more than two given he's marginally speculative as a future contributor to a side that should be challenging.

[hujsh]

Lin Jong's already five times the player either of those are and don't even remotely compare.

Are you sure your perception of Jones isn't clouded by more recent performances?

I dare say most of us having to choose between losing Jones in 2014 or Jong now (without knowledge of what Jones has become) would have kept Jones and lost Jong.

[comrade]

Just thinking about Tutt and Jones on 3 year deals makes me laugh.

[Twodogs]

Just thinking about Tutt and Jones on 3 year deals makes me laugh.

Them playing AFL footy again next year fills me with joy. Even just the fact they get to clog Carlton's list for another year is great.

[comrade]

Them playing AFL footy again next year fills me with joy. Even just the fact they get to clog Carlton's list for another year is great.

As much as we enjoy their deals, they would enjoy them 1000x more.

Both get one more year of earning $250,000+, having their own personal trainers and doctors completely paid for, plenty of XBox time despite being marginally better than the amateur blokes scrapping it out with them at the Northen Blues.

And then it will all end.

[EasternWest]

Are you sure your perception of Jones isn't clouded by more recent performances?

I dare say most of us having to choose between losing Jones in 2014 or Jong now (without knowledge of what Jones has become) would have kept Jones and lost Jong.

Fair question.

I'd say I'm judging them on where they're at in their careers when it seems like they might leave.

Jones was stagnant and his only redeeming virtue was his VFL Grand final performance (where Jong was arguably bog). I'll admit I would have preferred to have kept him, but I didn't care that he left.

Jong is a hard at it, big bodied mid with good hands and a terrific attitude. And like Vincent Vega said; personality goes a long way.

Tutt doesn't count.

So yeah, reasonable question, but I stand by my comment.

[comrade]

The Liam Jones 3 year deal is made even funnier by the fact we used the pick to draft Caleb Daniel.

[Twodogs]

The Liam Jones 3 year deal is made even funnier by the fact we used the pick to draft Caleb Daniel.


I sit and laugh every Tuesday between 6.30-7pm in recognition of and gratitude for that exact fact. When I can't laugh any more I play the replay of that dinky little kick to the Bont from the Sydney game and the laughter magically returns.

[1eyedog]

He's getting better and better every game he plays. I think he could be a real player in 2-3 years and I'm getting edgy about losing him.

[bornadog]

He's getting better and better every game he plays. I think he could be a real player in 2-3 years and I'm getting edgy about losing him.

My feeling is we won't lose him, but who knows. We better not lose him in a deal for Cloke.

[ledge]

Well sanity says stay with us .. Look at the last 3 years and what both clubs have done , polar opposites.. Really is the money or years offered that much more to decide on mediocrity rather than success? And with success comes more sponsors and tv interviews = more money.

[Mofra]

He was awful yesterday.
I'm actually erring on the side of trading him. He is a burst midfielder but his decision making and positioning is terrible. I can live with poor disposal from one midfielder (Dunkley) but we can't carry two who can't kick.

[Cyberdoggie]

He was awful yesterday.
I'm actually erring on the side of trading him. He is a burst midfielder but his decision making and positioning is terrible. I can live with poor disposal from one midfielder (Dunkley) but we can't carry two who can't kick.

Who wasn't awful though? apart from Morris and Boyd maybe.

Yeah his kicking was terrible but let's focus on what he does do well, and that is his marking and good hands in close.
He needs to have some balance around him, and there just wasn't any variety other than Bonts out there in that side.

Need to get Macrae back in that mix and find some better ball users and run and carry players for the future.

[bornadog]

Who wasn't awful though? apart from Morris and Boyd maybe.

Yeah his kicking was terrible but let's focus on what he does do well, and that is his marking and good hands in close.
He needs to have some balance around him, and there just wasn't any variety other than Bonts out there in that side.

Need to get Macrae back in that mix and find some better ball users and run and carry players for the future.

If you look at the stats, the disposal efficiency for almost 90% of players was 60% or less. It was pathetic to say the least.

Jong with his stupid I must get rid of the ball and put someone else under pressure acts is not doing him any favours.

I thought Dunkley with his 13 tackles and intent was the only player showing intensity. He can improve his disposal and I reckon he will as he is still very young (19).

[mjp]

He cannot kick.

This is not easy to fix...particularly in a mid who will be kicking under pressure so often.

Valuable depth player but is he really more than that?

[Mofra]

Who wasn't awful though? apart from Morris and Boyd maybe.

Yeah his kicking was terrible but let's focus on what he does do well, and that is his marking and good hands in close.
He needs to have some balance around him, and there just wasn't any variety other than Bonts out there in that side.

Need to get Macrae back in that mix and find some better ball users and run and carry players for the future.
He constantly puts his teammates under pressure with his disposal. We all talk about his kicking but the "hot potato handball" is becoming a feature of his game which means he basically fights hard to win the ball then puts us in a position to give it straight back tot he opposition.

His hands in close are "ok" but we have so many other better options, and those guys are natural footballers.
He's clearly a depth player and a classic athlete turned footballer but if he nets us something decent I say go for it.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He constantly puts his teammates under pressure with his disposal. We all talk about his kicking but the "hot potato handball" is becoming a feature of his game which means he basically fights hard to win the ball then puts us in a position to give it straight back tot he opposition.

His hands in close are "ok" but we have so many other better options, and those guys are natural footballers.
He's clearly a depth player and a classic athlete turned footballer but if he nets us something decent I say go for it.

Reality is, Jong's trade value will never be higher than it is right now. He's played a lot of footy this year due to our injuries and despite some good games, will never be anything more than "good depth".

We simply have to address our lack of skill issue and it starts with the likes of Jong and Stevens.

As you said, we can carry one (Dunkley) but not two/three/four/five etc.

[Sedat]

Reality is, Jong's trade value will never be higher than it is right now. He's played a lot of footy this year due to our injuries and despite some good games, will never be anything more than "good depth".

We simply have to address our lack of skill issue and it starts with the likes of Jong and Stevens.
Yep, happy to test the market and see what we can get for these two. Admire their hardness but the lack of polish and footy smarts does hurt us and won't be fixed easily (if at all). Would rather invest games into Dunks and even Clay Smith in that inside beast with questionable disposal skills role - both these two can also go forward and impact on the scoreboard, unlike Jong and Stevens.

[Remi Moses]

Agree with others . We can't carry to many who can't make the right decisions and turn it over, and importantly under pressure .

[hujsh]

Good news is this problem is partly fixed with guys like Libba and Macrae replacing Jong and Stevens. Not completely fixed but it goes some way.

[1eyedog]

I question Jong's ability in close as well. He goes in very hard but his efficiency by hand in close is also a weakness. Agree that his trade value will never be higher, his two running goals against the Pies to get us over the line won't hurt either.

[Cyberdoggie]

He constantly puts his teammates under pressure with his disposal. We all talk about his kicking but the "hot potato handball" is becoming a feature of his game which means he basically fights hard to win the ball then puts us in a position to give it straight back tot he opposition.

His hands in close are "ok" but we have so many other better options, and those guys are natural footballers.
He's clearly a depth player and a classic athlete turned footballer but if he nets us something decent I say go for it.

Not disagreeing there, it is bad and he is a common culprit but all our players were doing that. We handball far too much to the point where it becomes infectious and no one wants to hold on to the ball and take the time to think or actually try and break lines.
The best way to open up the opposition is when you run with the ball as the numbers in the defence grid will start to move and open up holes. This is why we are not scoring this year. Slow ball movement and no run and carry from the back half.

Back on Jong, last year there was a big focus from the coaches in getting him to run and explode from the contest when he gets the ball. Early on it worked great he was playing some great football, then he got injured. Since then he has been playing like an inside mid that just wants to handball the ball off to the nearest person as soon as possible. Similar to the form slump Mitch Wallis was having a few years back. I want to know where has that direction has gone as it is clearly not there any more.

[LostDoggy]

Not disagreeing there, it is bad and he is a common culprit but all our players were doing that. We handball far too much to the point where it becomes infectious and no one wants to hold on to the ball and take the time to think or actually try and break lines.
The best way to open up the opposition is when you run with the ball as the numbers in the defence grid will start to move and open up holes. This is why we are not scoring this year. Slow ball movement and no run and carry from the back half.

Back on Jong, last year there was a big focus from the coaches in getting him to run and explode from the contest when he gets the ball. Early on it worked great he was playing some great football, then he got injured. Since then he has been playing like an inside mid that just wants to handball the ball off to the nearest person as soon as possible. Similar to the form slump Mitch Wallis was having a few years back. I want to know where has that direction has gone as it is clearly not there any more.

Unfortunately with all our injuries the MC have probably had their hand forced and had to play him more as an inside mid instead of his desired position as a pacy line breaking outrider.

[Ozza]

A trade of Jong for Travis Cloke is hurtling towards us, with Collingwood picking up some of the cheque for Cloke.

[hujsh]

A trade of Jong for Travis Cloke is hurtling towards us, with Collingwood picking up some of the cheque for Cloke.

No, I want something of value for Jong if possible. Realistically we can get Cloke for nothing and they'd do it for the cap relief (think us dumping Jade Rawlings)

[Ozza]

No, I want something of value for Jong if possible. Realistically we can get Cloke for nothing and they'd do it for the cap relief (think us dumping Jade Rawlings)

I don't want Cloke either. But to me, that trade seems inevitable and I'm surprised it is not already getting airtime in the media (perhaps it is and I haven't seen it). Reading between the lines, Bevo wants to get him.

[jeemak]

I think Ozza is on the money.

Having to give up Jong to land Cloke would exclude competition for the latter's services to us. We'd also have the benefit of not paying money over and above what Jong's worth which is what we'll need to do to keep him.

[hujsh]

We'd be paying overs. I'm willing to trade Jong for Cloke and a pick but that's it.

[LostDoggy]

We'd be paying overs. I'm willing to trade Jong for Cloke and a pick but that's it.

I agree a straight Jong/Cloke swap is overs, problem is Collingwood have given away picks in future trade deals so aren't well placed to trade away further picks. How about something like Jong and our third or fourth rounder for Cloke and Witts?

[jeemak]

Jong as a guy who gets the ball through the middle of the ground and butchers it probably does the easiest thing that can be done on an AFL footy field. Cloke's job is much harder.

They don't compare as players.

[LostDoggy]

Jong as a guy who gets the ball through the middle of the ground and butchers it probably does the easiest thing that can be done on an AFL footy field. Cloke's job is much harder.

They don't compare as players.

That's true but given Cloke will be 30 come R1 next year and Jong will be 23, he still has a higher market value.

[hujsh]

Jong's the kind of guy we should be trading out while he has some currency in order to get something decent. Cloke is a guy at the end of his career whose club wants to be rid of him and will pay someone to do it.

I can't help but feel we lose in a straight swap

[Bulldog4life]

We don't know the trade details yet or even if there will be one. It could be a swap of picks it could mean another player is involved like a Witts as has been mentioned. Interesting times ahead.

[chef]

Cloke is probably worth more than Jong. Straight swap with the Pies covering some of Clokes pay and we are way in front.

[always right]

So we could end losing Jong for a forward who can't kick for goal and whose best is well past him.....as well as a soft ruckman with limited ability. Joy oh joy.

[Ozza]

While I should re-iterate that I don't want us to get Cloke.....

I don't think that it is realistic to think of Jong as being worth MORE than Cloke.
I very much doubt that the open market values Jong as even being worth as much as Cloke.

If we are to do this trade, taking my own feelings about it out of the picture, objectively - if we got Cloke for Jong, and Collingwood pay the salary difference, then at face value, its a very reasonable trade.

[bulldogtragic]

While I should re-iterate that I don't want us to get Cloke.....

I don't think that it is realistic to think of Jong as being worth MORE than Cloke.
I very much doubt that the open market values Jong as even being worth as much as Cloke.

If we are to do this trade, taking my own feelings about it out of the picture, objectively - if we got Cloke for Jong, and Collingwood pay the salary difference, then at face value, its a very reasonable trade.

This is most sensible. We are taking a risk that Cloke's drop off is due to Buckley and we can turn his confidence and game around. But Collingwood are taking a risk that the little teaser that Jong throws out a few times a year can be transformed into a decent footballer. Neither are dead certs from happening. So I can see an argument objectively that says they're both around the mark,

[chef]

Yeah, Jongs got next nothing in value. He's out of contract so who ever offers him a decent contract will be able to pick him up in the PSD.

[G-Mo77]

Yeah, Jongs got next nothing in value. He's out of contract so who ever offers him a decent contract will be able to pick him up in the PSD.

It's not really an avenue that is used that much. It's a threat but usually sanity prevails and a trade is worked out. Jong won't go into the PSD.

[soupman]

I think Jong is worth about a pick in the early 30's, with the possibility of getting a slightly higher one should we find the right buyer. For all his faults he is a goalkicking mid that has unique athletic attributes and has been a regular in a top 8 side for 2 years now.

Cloke I'm not sure is worth anything. Mediocre form at best for the last few years, a too big contract and struggled to get a game at a bottom 8 club that picked Jesse White and a lanky American ahead of him. I'd imagine we could snag him for a pick around 40+.