The Moving-Rolling Delisting/Retiring/Trading Thread 2017

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Cleary on Trade Radio reckons we've got the hots for Freo Crozier.

If he comes cheap, then maybe.

Decent skills - not sure he brings much else though.

[Sedat]

Cleary on Trade Radio reckons we've got the hots for Freo Crozier.
Good moneyball type. Can play forward and I think he could even emulate Jeremy Howe and become a good rebounding half back.

[1eyedog]

Good moneyball type. Can play forward and I think he could even emulate Jeremy Howe and become a good rebounding half back.

Nice penetrating kick. My issue is he can't crack a generally poor side.

[Happy Days]

Nice penetrating kick. My issue is he can't crack a generally poor side.

Played every game from r2, save one missed with concussion. He's clearly best 22 there.

[Twodogs]

Nice penetrating kick. My issue is he can't crack a generally poor side.


Good players not developing at a shit club but really coming on at a good club with the right development and preperation pathways happens a lot. I know I'm a bulldog supporter who remembers the 1970s and 80s.

[1eyedog]

Good players not developing at a shit club but really coming on at a good club with the right development and preperation pathways happens a lot. I know I'm a bulldog supporter who remembers the 1970s and 80s.

Yeah me too. It's a long, distinguished list.

[Bullies]

Cleary on Trade Radio reckons we've got the hots for Freo Crozier. Club have been trying to get him for some time. Had a good year and much improved. Coming home could be a good thing for him.

[Axe Man]

They've forgotten about Hamilton being delisted, but a decent summary of where our uncontracted players are at:

Out-of-contract Bulldogs midfielder in limbo (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-09-15/outofcontract-bulldogs-midfielder-honeychurch-in-limbo)

THE FUTURE of Western Bulldogs midfielder Mitch Honeychurch won't be decided until after next month's free agency and trade periods.

AFL.com.au understands the out-of-contract 22-year-old has been told by the Bulldogs they can't offer him a new deal until they know how many spots they'll have on their list following the NAB AFL free agency and trade windows.

It's also possible the Eastern Ranges product could find a new club in the exchange period, with Essendon and Adelaide showing interest in him last year.

2017 proved to be a frustrating year for Honeychurch, as he was a solid performer in the VFL before finally earning a senior recall in round 13.

He then played the next six games until a facial infection following round 19 sidelined him for several weeks.

Honeychurch has played just 22 games in four seasons at Whitten Oval since being taken with pick 60 in the 2013 NAB AFL Draft.

He and forward Stewart Crameri remain the only two senior-listed Bulldogs without a contract for next season, with AFL.com.au reporting last month Essendon had made enquiries to Crameri's management about bringing him back to Tullamarine.

That interest may have waned with coach John Worsfold confirming the Bombers are in the hunt to recruit fellow Dogs forward Jake Stringer.

With Robert Murphy and Matthew Boyd retiring, and with Stringer likely to find a new home, the Dogs are on track to make the three mandatory changes to their senior list under AFL rules.

The Dogs will also have to make a call on Roarke Smith, with the luckless defender needing to be upgraded or delisted after being on the club's rookie list for the maximum three seasons.

The 21-year-old, who has endured two knee reconstructions in the past 18 months, has impressed in two senior games but just needs some luck to realise his full potential.

Fellow rookies Brad Lynch and Nathan Mullenger-McHugh are expected to be retained by the Bulldogs after they delisted injury-prone midfielder Josh Prudden last week.

[kruder]

They've forgotten about Hamilton being delisted, but a decent summary of where our uncontracted players are at:

Out-of-contract Bulldogs midfielder in limbo (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-09-15/outofcontract-bulldogs-midfielder-honeychurch-in-limbo)

THE FUTURE of Western Bulldogs midfielder Mitch Honeychurch won't be decided until after next month's free agency and trade periods.

AFL.com.au understands the out-of-contract 22-year-old has been told by the Bulldogs they can't offer him a new deal until they know how many spots they'll have on their list following the NAB AFL free agency and trade windows.

It's also possible the Eastern Ranges product could find a new club in the exchange period, with Essendon and Adelaide showing interest in him last year.

2017 proved to be a frustrating year for Honeychurch, as he was a solid performer in the VFL before finally earning a senior recall in round 13.

He then played the next six games until a facial infection following round 19 sidelined him for several weeks.

Honeychurch has played just 22 games in four seasons at Whitten Oval since being taken with pick 60 in the 2013 NAB AFL Draft.

He and forward Stewart Crameri remain the only two senior-listed Bulldogs without a contract for next season, with AFL.com.au reporting last month Essendon had made enquiries to Crameri's management about bringing him back to Tullamarine.

That interest may have waned with coach John Worsfold confirming the Bombers are in the hunt to recruit fellow Dogs forward Jake Stringer.

With Robert Murphy and Matthew Boyd retiring, and with Stringer likely to find a new home, the Dogs are on track to make the three mandatory changes to their senior list under AFL rules.

The Dogs will also have to make a call on Roarke Smith, with the luckless defender needing to be upgraded or delisted after being on the club's rookie list for the maximum three seasons.

The 21-year-old, who has endured two knee reconstructions in the past 18 months, has impressed in two senior games but just needs some luck to realise his full potential.

Fellow rookies Brad Lynch and Nathan Mullenger-McHugh are expected to be retained by the Bulldogs after they delisted injury-prone midfielder Josh Prudden last week.

Nothing against Mitch the club just needs to move him on, he isn't up to AFL standard.

[Twodogs]

Nothing against Mitch the club just needs to move him on, he isn't up to AFL standard.


We have to make a call on him don't we?

[bulldogtragic]

Nothing against Mitch the club just needs to move him on, he isn't up to AFL standard.

The best thing to do for him is delist him and anyone who wants him gets him as a DFA. The notion that, at best, maybe you'll be good enough to be the last player on our list heading into draft is got to be feeling pretty shit. Cut him and let him go elsewhere as I'm not sure he's even steak knives for a trade on his current afl output so far.

[KT31]

If he comes cheap, then maybe.

Decent skills - not sure he brings much else though.

We seem to already have a phlephora of medium sized forwards who averages a dozen touches a game, do we need another ?

[bornadog]

Stevo reporting 2 year offer from Cats for Crameri

[bulldogtragic]

Stevo reporting 2 year offer from Cats for Crameri

Yeah, but what's he asking for them?

[Eastdog]

Yeah, but what's he asking for them?

2nd or 3rd picks maybe?

[Rocket Science]

Stevo reporting 2 year offer from Cats for Crameri

Part of the pitch for Jake...

[KT31]

Stevo reporting 2 year offer from Cats for Crameri

Cats are being link to everyone at the moment.

[Remi Moses]

Where does that leave Menzel ?

[azabob]

Where does that leave Menzel ?

Apparently has a one year deal on the table at a reduced rate.

[Happy Days]

I reckon we try to get pick 26 for no reason at all from Geelong and then draft Zach Merrett with it

[KT31]

Where does that leave Menzel ?

He was very good last night, if he showed the type of defence he did with the run and tackle consistently he would certainly have more than a year offer on the table.
Showed a bit to work with last night.

[GVGjr]

I reckon we try to get pick 26 for no reason at all from Geelong and then draft Zach Merrett with it

Interestingly enough we have pick 26 this year :)

[bulldogtragic]

I reckon we try to get pick 26 for no reason at all from Geelong and then draft Zach Merrett with it

Have you got your pitch fork ready to head down as an angry mob to WO? :D

I've got to find mine in my garage somewhere.

[Twodogs]

I reckon we try to get pick 26 for no reason at all from Geelong and then draft Zach Merrett with it


It's all a bit 2013.

[KT31]

Jake Niall mentioned on the radio that Adelaide would be seeking two first round picks from Melbourne for Lever.
Heavy price to pay in a poor draft let alone the quality of this years crop, if it is the case I am glad we haven't gone down the Lever track.

[ledge]

Jake Niall mentioned on the radio that Adelaide would be seeking two first round picks from Melbourne for Lever.
Heavy price to pay in a poor draft let alone the quality of this years crop, if it is the case I am glad we haven't gone down the Lever track.

Seeking and getting are two different things.

[macca]

With Roarke smith can we delist him , and then re-rookie him , if no one else picks him up ?

[KT31]

Seeking and getting are two different things.

Agree but its a fair ambient claim to start negotiations.

[GVGjr]

Jake Niall mentioned on the radio that Adelaide would be seeking two first round picks from Melbourne for Lever.
Heavy price to pay in a poor draft let alone the quality of this years crop, if it is the case I am glad we haven't gone down the Lever track.

My guess that Adelaide will settle on a first and 2nd round pick.

[GVGjr]

With Roarke smith can we delist him , and then re-rookie him , if no one else picks him up ?

I think that is possible

[bornadog]

Jake Niall mentioned on the radio that Adelaide would be seeking two first round picks from Melbourne for Lever.
Heavy price to pay in a poor draft let alone the quality of this years crop, if it is the case I am glad we haven't gone down the Lever track.

Why would Adelaide even bother commenting, they have a prelim coming up.

[bulldogtragic]

Why would Adelaide even bother commenting, they have a prelim coming up.

Yep. But if that's their position we'd actually be OK to do it if we could swap 9 & 26 for 15 & 16 of Richmond in a draft points trade. Shame he's seemingly going to Melbourne.

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJ_s4HFUEAA5mgP.jpg

[bornadog]

Mark Stevens‏ @Stevo7AFL 3h3 hours ago
More
Been some confusion/debate about Travis Cloke. His camp 100 per cent certain he will play next year, see out contract.

[bulldogtragic]

Mark Stevens‏ @Stevo7AFL 3h3 hours ago
More
Been some confusion/debate about Travis Cloke. His camp 100 per cent certain he will play next year, see out contract.

Good news!

[ledge]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJ_s4HFUEAA5mgP.jpg

This is hilarious , only speculation was by the journalists they were the ones who made it up.

[josie]

Go Clokey!! Felt he never got a fair run with injuries this year. When he did play I felt he provided a good mobile target who can still clunk a few marks.

[1eyedog]

Tristan Tweedie was told that his contract would not be renewed yesterday.

[bornadog]

Tristan Tweedie was told that his contract would not be renewed yesterday.

I hope he works hard and continues to strive for his ultimate goal. Good luck to the kid

[Twodogs]

I hope he works hard and continues to strive for his ultimate goal. Good luck to the kid


Indeed. Thank him for everything and wish him all the best please 1ED.

[1eyedog]

Sure thing. He's very grateful for the opportunity but a bit surprised and expected to have his contract extended based on late season discussions.

[bornadog]

Dogs swing the axe on rookie key forward (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-09-19/dogs-swing-the-axe-on-rookie-key-forward)


THE WESTERN Bulldogs have delisted Category B rookie Tristan Tweedie after one season at the club.

The 19-year-old forward kicked just three goals in 11 VFL games this season after overcoming stress fractures in his foot that limited him to four games in two seasons with the Eastern Ranges in the TAC Cup.

The Healesville product was a member of Hawthorn's academy, but the Hawks overlooked him for a rookie spot at the end of the 2016.

Tweedie is the second rookie to be delisted by the club this month, after injury-prone midfielder Josh Pridden was released by the club last week.

The news is much better for two of the Dogs' remaining rookies, with Brad Lynch and Nathan Mullenger-McHugh retained for another season.

Lynch is a defensive playmaker in the mold of club great Robert Murphy, but the West Australian's progress was stymied this season by several hamstring injuries.

With Murphy and Matthew Boyd calling time on their respected careers, the 20-year-old should get plenty of chances to make his senior debut after two seasons at Whitten Oval.

Mullenger-McHugh impressed in his first season at the Dogs, with the raw key position player developing well mainly across half-back for Footscray.

The 20-year-old is very athletic and possess a strong pair of hands.

The Bulldogs will also have to make a call on Roarke Smith, with the luckless defender needing to be upgraded or delisted after being on the club's rookie list for the maximum three seasons.

The 21-year-old, who has endured two knee reconstructions in the past 18 months, has impressed in two senior games but just needs some luck to realise his full potential.

Stewart Crameri and Mitch Honeychurch are the only senior-listed players without a contract for next season, with the pair unlikely to be offered new contracts until after free agency and trade periods.

[hujsh]

Tweedie is the second rookie to be delisted by the club this month, after injury-prone midfielder Josh Pridden was released by the club last week.

We can do better

[westdog54]

Ok, so after all that:

Out

Bob - retired
Boyd - retired
Hamilton - delisted
Stringer - exiled

In

Trengove
Crozier
Schache
Roarke Smith (promoted)
Pick 9
Pick 16.

By my count, we need to cut two more.

We know Honeychurch has been approached by GWS. I'm sure we'll delist him to facilitate that as we did with Tutt to Carlton.

Which leaves us one to delist, which must surely be Crameri.

If Zac Clarke were interested, would we prefer him over Campbell?

[ledge]

Crameri and honeychurch the obvious two.
They are both good footballers just shows how strong our list is.
Other clubs will take them on no doubt which again proves our list is in quite good nick compared to other teams.
I'm in shock about North doing nothing when the really need to get some talent in.
Collingwood also pretty strange they need to improve big time next year and won't do it with draft picks, going in with the Same team they had last year which lacks talls , they didn't even come for Schache !

[Twodogs]

Crameri and honeychurch the obvious two.
They are both good footballers just shows how strong our list is.
Other clubs will take them on no doubt which again proves our list is in quite good nick compared to other teams.
I'm in shock about North doing nothing when the really need to get some talent in.
Collingwood also pretty strange they need to improve big time next year and won't do it with draft picks, going in with the Same team they had last year which lacks talls , they didn't even come for Schache !


I'm suprised that Collinfwood didn't come after Stringer. I wonder if they hadn't wasted all that money on Mayne (and all the other duds they have from other clubs) if they would have.

[Rocket Science]

I'm suprised that Collinfwood didn't come after Stringer. I wonder if they hadn't wasted all that money on Mayne (and all the other duds they have from other clubs) if they would have.

I heard it suggested one Matthew Boyd might've played a part in that.

[bulldogtragic]

This thread is almost done. Honey & Crameri are to be cut. GWS will take Honey. I wonder who might take Crameri?

[westdog54]

This thread is almost done. Honey & Crameri are to be cut. GWS will take Honey. I wonder who might take Crameri?

I'm not sure he'll get picked up at all...

[bulldogtragic]

I'm not sure he'll get picked up at all...

Well, that helps his damages law suit at least.

[Scraggers]

This thread is almost done. Honey & Crameri are to be cut. GWS will take Honey. I wonder who might take Crameri?

Didn't Essendum say they would try to Crameri back?

[bulldogtragic]

Didn't Essendum say they would try to Crameri back?

They said it, I'm not sure they meant it if they landed Stringer though. I could see them doing just as a PR stunt, but with their forward line I'm not sure he'd get a game.

[Twodogs]

I heard it suggested one Matthew Boyd might've played a part in that.

They are his employer now. That's exactly the duty he owes them.


I'm not sure he'll get picked up at all...

I've asked this a couple of times as I am sure it's playing a factor here. Whatever happened with that Greyhound problem Craneri was having with the Racing standards people in
NSW? I assume it played itself out because we haven't heard about it for a while.

[LostDoggy]

This thread is almost done. Honey & Crameri are to be cut. GWS will take Honey. I wonder who might take Crameri?

Whilst I agree HC and Stew look the 2 most obvious delistings it does leave us a bit short of natural forwards, especially after Stringers departure. We also put a couple of years into Hamilton, most probably with hope that he would fill a similar role. Left on our list, our most accomplished forwards are Dickson (30 and struggling with injuries), Cloke (30), Picken (31), Redpath (27 and injury prone), Smith (24 but with a body hanging together by threads), Boyd (who may well be needed in the Ruck) and some kids with talent.

[Go_Dogs]

Whilst I agree HC and Stew look the 2 most obvious delistings it does leave us a bit short of natural forwards, especially after Stringers departure. We also put a couple of years into Hamilton, most probably with hope that he would fill a similar role. Left on our list, our most accomplished forwards are Dickson (30 and struggling with injuries), Cloke (30), Picken (31), Redpath (27 and injury prone), Smith (24 but with a body hanging together by threads), Boyd (who may well be needed in the Ruck) and some kids with talent.

We may need to change the players who we consider as forwards.

I expect JJ, Dahl, Dale in the very least will all be considered more regular forwards in 2018 and if we see some improvement from our midfielders who were down this year (Libba, Wallis), Jong back from injury, McLean and Daniel continue to build midfield minutes, we may see Bont play more like 50% forward time too.

[Doc26]

This thread is almost done. Honey & Crameri are to be cut. GWS will take Honey. I wonder who might take Crameri?

Is there any possibility that we would consider delisting one of our contracted players to retain Crameri? If it is true that we were trying to trade out TC through the trade period would we take a hit on his 2018 salary and/or re-negotiate for his departure for the upcoming DFA period. It is far from unprecedented, if not a bit unsavoury, and I can only imagine that we would still be sitting under the TPP for 2018.

[Hotdog60]

Is there any possibility that we would consider delisting one of our contracted players to retain Crameri? If it is true that we were trying to trade out TC through the trade period would we take a hit on his 2018 salary and/or re-negotiate for his departure for the upcoming DFA period. It is far from unprecedented, if not a bit unsavoury, and I can only imagine that we would still be sitting under the TPP for 2018.

If the player has done all the right things and has given no reason to be shafted I think it would send a poor message to the rest of the group. If you can't fit an uncontracted player in because there are no spots I wouldn't bin a contracted player to fit him in.

[Doc26]

If the player has done all the right things and has given no reason to be shafted I think it would send a poor message to the rest of the group. If you can't fit an uncontracted player in because there are no spots I wouldn't bin a contracted player to fit him in.

Agree but that's not to say that we still couldn't continue and help to negotiate his move to another Club through the DFA period, that is, it wouldn't have to be adversarial.

[bulldogtragic]

Agree but that's not to say that we still couldn't continue and help to negotiate his move to another Club through the DFA period, that is, it wouldn't have to be adversarial.

We could have done that, effectively the same way by swapping pick 82 & player for pick 79? We didn't do it though.

[Doc26]

We could have done that, effectively the same way by swapping pick 82 & player for pick 79? We didn't do it though.

That's true but then there are a lot of moving parts in the last hours of trade week. If we were keen to get TC to head up North with him supposedly declining (I can't verify this), and we've subsequently snagged Schache at the eleventh hour, sealing Crameri's fate, there may still be time now to negotiate an amicable exit, retaining Crammers and upgrading Roarke with pick 82. I'm not suggesting that it will or should happen, just that it is achievable if Crameri is now deemed required given Jake's exit.

[bulldogtragic]

That's true but then there are a lot of moving parts in the last hours of trade week. If we were keen to get TC to head up North with him supposedly declining (I can't verify this), and we've subsequently snagged Schache at the eleventh hour, sealing Crameri's fate, there may still be time now to negotiate an amicable exit, retaining Crammers and upgrading Roarke with pick 82. I'm not suggesting that it will or should happen, just that it is achievable if Crameri is now deemed required given Jake's exit.

I'd rather move Campbell next year for handful of draft points. If we want Crameri (key question), as I've said last week, we should apply for special consideration from the AFEL to move him onto the rookie list directly, in exchange for our pick 9 in the RD. There's a good argument to made for the club and especially Stew for it, we might just get it.

[ledge]

Just heard a rumour Tory Dickson could be retiring due to his hip injury.

[EasternWest]

Just heard a rumour Tory Dickson could be retiring due to his hip injury.

Wow that would be a shame. A truly great football story, and a huge role in our 2016 finals campaign.

[Mofra]

Just heard a rumour Tory Dickson could be retiring due to his hip injury.
That came out of nowhere.
I like Tory but he can't play with injury, struggled last year.

[Axe Man]

Just heard a rumour Tory Dickson could be retiring due to his hip injury.

Hope that's not true. Given his late start to AFL I hoped he would still have at least 2 or 3 years left. God knows how we are going to kick a score next year. Maybe that's why we haven't delisted Crameri yet?

[ledge]

Hope that's not true. Given his late start to AFL I hoped he would still have at least 2 or 3 years left. God knows how we are going to kick a score next year. Maybe that's why we haven't delisted Crameri yet?

Well it is a rumour doing the rounds, how true I am not sure but I do think he struggled big time this season.

[westdog54]

Is there any possibility that we would consider delisting one of our contracted players to retain Crameri? If it is true that we were trying to trade out TC through the trade period would we take a hit on his 2018 salary and/or re-negotiate for his departure for the upcoming DFA period. It is far from unprecedented, if not a bit unsavoury, and I can only imagine that we would still be sitting under the TPP for 2018.

I can't imagine so.

Realistically, we're going to have to delist Honeychurch and Crameri. It then boils down to whether or not we re-draft Crameri or promote Roarke Smith.

Injury prone, talented youngster or troubled, talented veteran.

I honestly don't know which way we'll go.


Just heard a rumour Tory Dickson could be retiring due to his hip injury.

[Go_Dogs]

Would be disappointing to lose Tory, easy to forget how good he has been when he’s been operating at 100% - while I hope it’s not true, he could stay at the club as our kicking coach if injury forces him to retire early.

[bulldogtragic]

Losing Tory brings our forward goal kicking accuracy down even lower. Agree on the calls to keep him as an assistant goal kicking coach.

If it's all true.

[GVGjr]

Just heard a rumour Tory Dickson could be retiring due to his hip injury.

You typically hate the media when they speculate on things. I hope the source is at least a good one.

[Remi Moses]

If that happens , could be an opening for Crameri .

[The Doctor]

could we make a play for Menzel perhaps?

[bulldogtragic]

If that happens , could be an opening for Crameri .

Or Honey. Or a DFA, there seems to be a few going to be around who might be interesting to debate. No official word Dicko is going though.

[bulldogtragic]

could we make a play for Menzel perhaps?

I thought he was taking a one year deal. I might be on my own, Trent McKenzie could be an interesting one. Good size, 100+ games, 25yo, and great kick. I wonder if we got some like that we can start pushing others up the field like Suckling to a wing and JJ and/or Crozier to a half forward flank.

[jeemak]

I thought he was taking a one year deal. I might be on my own, Trent McKenzie could be an interesting one. Good size, 100+ games, 25yo, and great kick. I wonder if we got some like that we can start pushing others up the field like Suckling to a wing and JJ and/or Crozier to a half forward flank.

What attributes other than a massive kick and injury proneness does he have?

[Dry Rot]

What about Bird from the Bombers? Rookie him?

[bulldogtragic]

What attributes other than a massive kick and injury proneness does he have?

I'd like to see what a good coach can do with him. Maybe even as a mid sized forward. He's an ok mark, and making the distance from 50+ won't be an issue as you say.

DFA, 82 or rookie, depending on other club interest.

Edit: In his first season he played further up the ground and forward (& probably should've stayed there); averaged 17.1 disposals, 4.1 marks, 3 tackles, 5 inside 50's, 1.5 clearances, 1.7 rebound 50's and 13.19 for the year.

[lemmon]

Hope that's not true. Given his late start to AFL I hoped he would still have at least 2 or 3 years left. God knows how we are going to kick a score next year. Maybe that's why we haven't delisted Crameri yet?

Only just turned 30 too. Would be a huge shame, hes about the only proven goalkicker we have left.

[jeemak]

I'd like to see what a good coach can do with him. Maybe even as a mid sized forward. He's an ok mark, and making the distance from 50+ won't be an issue as you say.

DFA, 82 or rookie, depending on other club interest.

Edit: In his first season he played further up the ground and forward (& probably should've stayed there); averaged 17.1 disposals, 4.1 marks, 3 tackles, 5 inside 50's, 1.5 clearances, 1.7 rebound 50's and 13.19 for the year.

Thanks.

He'd fit right in with that accuracy.

[Testekill]

What about Bird from the Bombers? Rookie him?


Bird is pretty awful

[Dry Rot]

Bird is pretty awful

Was OK with the Swans, haven't seen much of him since.

[LostDoggy]

Bird is pretty awful

Agree. Rookieing a Craig Bird whilst delisting Crameri and/or HC would make no sense to me.

[Twodogs]

What attributes other than a massive kick and injury proneness does he have?

He brings potential ekerness. If we recruit and keep him off the park for a couple of seasons we could be talking elite standard eker.



Was OK with the Swans, haven't seen much of him since.

Did he kick a bag against us in Canberra a few years ago?

[Testekill]

Did he kick a bag against us in Canberra a few years ago?


Yeah, back in 2011. That's a pretty damn long time ago

[SlimPickens]

John Ralph on SEN just said he expects Travis Cloke to announce his retirement by the end of the week.

[Mofra]

John Ralph on SEN just said he expects Travis Cloke to announce his retirement by the end of the week.
HUN email updates state he's set to retire too.
Shame, hope he stays on as a specialist coach as I think he'd be great for Schache.

[Bulldog4life]

John Ralph on SEN just said he expects Travis Cloke to announce his retirement by the end of the week.

Might be room for Crameri after all. Wouldn't be surprised if the club initiated it. I heard that a while ago.

[bulldogtragic]

Might be room for Crameri after all. Wouldn't be surprised if the club initiated it. I heard that a while ago.

I'd be disappointed if we did. We threw away hundreds of thousands of dollars to come two us. And he still has something to offer.

[ledge]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/travis-cloke-set-to-announce-retirement-from-afl/news-story/72b8e84f3941ed49391116ee854cd993

[Bulldog Joe]

I think we still have options.

Despite a contract we can delist a player and then redraft as a rookie if nobody else picks them up.
We would only then be liable for the difference in the existing contract and new contract as a payout.

Tom Campbell would certainly fit a category to do that, if we want to open another list space.
It could also happen with Dickson, particularly if their is doubt on him fitness wise.

Still a bit to play out, with the rumour around Cloke as well as Dickson.

Would also be an option to add either to the coaching staff to meet any financial requirements.

[Bulldog4life]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/travis-cloke-set-to-announce-retirement-from-afl/news-story/72b8e84f3941ed49391116ee854cd993

paywall for me

[Bulldog4life]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/travis-cloke-set-to-announce-retirement-from-afl/news-story/72b8e84f3941ed49391116ee854cd993

TRAVIS Cloke seems destined to retire in coming days after being painted a bleak picture of his senior prospects next year.

The Herald Sun understands Cloke is taking several days to consider his future before the club’s next list lodgement deadline.

Cloke would be paid out next year on the final year of a modest two-season deal.

But with Tom Campbell not being offered a new home during the trade period, Cloke is behind Tom Boyd, Jack Redpath and new recruit Josh Schache.

Cloke has been one of the AFL’s best contested marking players over the years but, as a poor set-shot kick, he has also been a maligned player.

Cloke is understood to be leaning toward retiring, given he would almost certainly be playing VFL football all year.

The former Pies premiership player battled mental health issues but returned to football this season.

Cloke, 30, booted 452 goals from 256 matches but often struggled for accuracy.

The big man fell out of favour with Collingwood coach Nathan Buckley in 2016 and was dropped for Anzac Day.

He was traded to the Western Bulldogs last October, but his struggles continued.

Cloke managed 10 games for the Dogs, kicking 11.9.

Bulldog forwards Mitch Honeychurch and Stewart Crameri are without contracts with their futures in limbo, but Cloke’s departure could win a reprieve for at least one of them.

[Bulldog4life]

Mark Stevens‏ @Stevo7AFL 6m6 minutes ago
More
It is over for Cloke, written statement coming. A realist, limited opportunity .. still had fire but finishing up

[Bulldog4life]

Mark Stevens‏ @Stevo7AFL 2m2 minutes ago
More
Can also confirm Stewart Crameri has played his last game Dogs, Cloke exit didn't save him @7NewsMelbourne

[chef]

The right decision for us list wise.

[bulldogtragic]

Honeychurch is on record as wanting a fresh start. Perhaps we are after a DFA.

[Twodogs]

The right decision for us list wise.


Yep. We are finally making sensible pragmatic decisions without them being forced on us.

[bulldogtragic]

No Cloke & No Crameri, No Stringer.

Moving out forwards... Maybe Adams or Young might go forward after all.

[chef]

No Cloke & No Crameri, No Stringer.

Moving out forwards... Maybe Adams or Young might go forward after all.

Yep. We have plenty of other options.

[G-Mo77]

Yep. We are finally making sensible pragmatic decisions without them being forced on us.

I think it was forced TD. I don't think we planned for Shache at all and it was a last minute rush to get him. We banked on getting a high pick for Stringer and failed but landed on our feet with the Shache deal. This is not planned and Cloke's been forced out. I'm not upset by it but feel for him a little as others are running around on borrowed time.

It still doesn't sit well with me that we're only going to be taking 2 live picks (assuming Crameri gets a deal now) we've managed our list spots poorly this year. Some players we just need to hold back on signing rather than ink them as soon as possible.

[Bulldog4life]

If we use pick 82 on upgrading Roarke Smith we will either re contract Honey or we might have a delisted player in mind from another club.

[G-Mo77]

If we use pick 82 on upgrading Roarke Smith we will either re contract Honey or we might have a delisted player in mind from another club.

Crameri not getting a contract either so we can elevate Smith and sign a DFA.

[Sedat]

I wonder if Crameri's hip issues are worse than what is out there in the public domain. He was an elite two-way runner who consistently impacted on the scoreboard only 2 years ago and yet no club wanted a bar of him in the trade period. Pretty amazing fall from grace for a player who had 7 shots at goal in his 3rd last game (in a final no less).

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I wonder if Crameri's hip issues are worse than what is out there in the public domain. He was an elite two-way runner who consistently impacted on the scoreboard only 2 years ago and yet no club wanted a bar of him in the trade period. Pretty amazing fall from grace for a player who had 7 shots at goal in his 3rd last game (in a final no less).

It would explain the lack of interest from clubs and our lack of commitment to him.

Suspect Honeychurch stays with Cloke/Crameri going, which I don't like.

[bulldogtragic]

It would explain the lack of interest from clubs and our lack of commitment to him.

Suspect Honeychurch stays with Cloke/Crameri going, which I don't like.

I hope GWS and Honey have already agreed. Extending Honey would be like rookie list Prudden, or re-signing Hamilton last year. A waste of a list space. And as per the article in the trade period, he wants a fresh start which is probably the best thing for him to make the grade ND play regular senior footy.

[1eyedog]

I actually thought HC really started to show something before the facial infection issue that kept him out of the GC game. If he had of kicked straight previously do you think we'd be bemoaning his potential de-listing.

[Mofra]

I suspect HC has a handshake agreement with GWS already.

With Cloke, Crameri & HC gone we have space to upgrade Roarke and sign a DFA.
Given we put Campbell on the trade table does this mean a Zac Clarke or Jake Spencer is in the frame?

Perhaps a mid-sized forward would be considered but there isn't much out there. Neither Menzel chases and everyone else out there seems to have question marks on them due to injury battles.

[bulldogtragic]

I actually thought HC really started to show something before the facial infection issue that kept him out of the GC game. If he had of kicked straight previously do you think we'd be bemoaning his potential de-listing.

If Travis had kicked straight in his career he'd never have played for us! :D

We can only deal in what he actually did. Butcher mainly easy ehough shots, not provide enough forward pressure and provide hurt factor up the ground. He seems like a good bloke, but I'm happy to let him leave and I'm happy for him to start a fresh in his career t GWS.

[bulldogtragic]

I suspect HC has a handshake agreement with GWS already.

With Cloke, Crameri & HC gone we have space to upgrade Roarke and sign a DFA.
Given we put Campbell on the trade table does this mean a Zac Clarke or Jake Spencer is in the frame?

Perhaps a mid-sized forward would be considered but there isn't much out there. Neither Menzel chases and everyone else out there seems to have question marks on them due to injury battles.

I'm on the Trent McKenzie as a DFA going mid sized forward option. His first when played forward was pretty good.

[Doc26]

I suspect HC has a handshake agreement with GWS already.

With Cloke, Crameri & HC gone we have space to upgrade Roarke and sign a DFA.
Given we put Campbell on the trade table does this mean a Zac Clarke or Jake Spencer is in the frame?

Perhaps a mid-sized forward would be considered but there isn't much out there. Neither Menzel chases and everyone else out there seems to have question marks on them due to injury battles.

Are we obliged to upgrade Roarke off the rookie list in this draft? If not, I'm struggling to see why we would should give up a list spot for a rookie listed player coming off an ACL.

[bulldogtragic]

Are we obliged to upgrade Roarke off the rookie list in this draft? If not, I'm struggling to see why we would should give up a list spot for a rookie listed player coming off an ACL.

Either elevate or delist. We can't extend his tenure. But I believe we can re rookie list him if no other club grabs him.

[Doc26]

Either elevate or delist. We can't extend his tenure. But I believe we can re rookie list him if no other club grabs him.

Thanks BT. This helps make sense of it.

[kruder]

I wonder if Crameri's hip issues are worse than what is out there in the public domain. He was an elite two-way runner who consistently impacted on the scoreboard only 2 years ago and yet no club wanted a bar of him in the trade period. Pretty amazing fall from grace for a player who had 7 shots at goal in his 3rd last game (in a final no less).

Yeah puzzling indeed consider when fit he has attributes that we lack and is a good Stringer replacement.

[Dry Rot]

So who are the interesting looking DFAs?

[Ozza]

I'm on the Trent McKenzie as a DFA going mid sized forward option. His first when played forward was pretty good.

My mail on Trent McKenzie (from a very close source to him) was that he spoke to a couple of Melbourne clubs late in the year. The Bulldogs weren't one of them at that time - Richmond were one and I can't recall the other.

He was happy enough to stay at the Suns had they've wanted him - but it seemed likely his future was in Melbourne if someone was keen. Sounds like the kid has a good head on his shoulders - probably needs a coach to work out his best position to get the best out of him.

[Twodogs]

I think it was forced TD. I don't think we planned for Shache at all and it was a last minute rush to get him. We banked on getting a high pick for Stringer and failed but landed on our feet with the Shache deal. This is not planned and Cloke's been forced out. I'm not upset by it but feel for him a little as others are running around on borrowed time.

It still doesn't sit well with me that we're only going to be taking 2 live picks (assuming Crameri gets a deal now) we've managed our list spots poorly this year. Some players we just need to hold back on signing rather than ink them as soon as possible.

I was more meaning that if we were going to go forward with one of either Liberatore or Cloke then the answer is Libba every day of the week purely on playing form and longevity. I'd rather canvass Libba's energy and point it in the right direction (Libba isn't a bad person, he looks at the world differently.) than get rid of him in order to appease a player who is only going to play on for a year.

[bulldogtragic]

My mail on Trent McKenzie (from a very close source to him) was that he spoke to a couple of Melbourne clubs late in the year. The Bulldogs weren't one of them at that time - Richmond were one and I can't recall the other.

He was happy enough to stay at the Suns had they've wanted him - but it seemed likely his future was in Melbourne if someone was keen. Sounds like the kid has a good head on his shoulders - probably needs a coach to work out his best position to get the best out of him.

Thanks Ozza. Hopefully things have changed with us, at 190cm & 86kg he's a mid forward size for us to put him there, and 100+ games experience at 25yo helps. This was a a stats excerpt of mine on him from a few pages back:

In his first season he played further up the ground and forward (& probably should've stayed there); averaged 17.1 disposals, 4.1 marks, 3 tackles, 5 inside 50's, 1.5 clearances, 1.7 rebound 50's and 13.19 for the year.

[choconmientay]

Travis Cloke will announce his retirement. Maybe Crameri is staying after all?


Travis Cloke set to announce retirement from football
(http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/travis-cloke-set-to-announce-retirement-from-football-20171024-gz7lu5.html)Michael Gleeson

Western Bulldogs power forward and former Collingwood premiership player Travis Cloke is poised to retire from football.
Fairfax Media understands Cloke will make an announcement on Wednesday.
Cloke took an indefinite break from football this year after announcing that he was suffering from depression.

His form had tapered in his last years at Collingwood and he hoped that a change of environment at the Bulldogs would help resurrect his career.

The announcement comes after the Dogs also secured another key forward in the trade period in former No.2 draft pick Josh Schache from the Brisbane Lions.

[Axe Man]

Don't mind the McKenzie suggestion. I really don't think we need another ruckman on the list with Campbell staying. I think our forward line is the most in need of bolstering and for that reason I would consider Menzel. Even without forward pressure he would win our goal kicking. No point having forward pressure if there is nobody there to finish it off. Maybe even recruit his brother to Footscray.

[Axe Man]

Travis Cloke will announce his retirement. Maybe Crameri is staying after all?

Already announced and Mark Stevens has said Crameri is gone.

[bulldogtragic]

Travis Cloke will announce his retirement. Maybe Crameri is staying after all?

Apparently not. Think it was Stevo that said it.

[choconmientay]

Anything about Dickson?

[bulldogtragic]

Anything about Dickson?

Still a rumour.

[kruder]

Just heard a rumour Tory Dickson could be retiring due to his hip injury.

Oh wow just read this now. I loved our 2015 forward line of Crameri, Dickson and Stringer were such a good combination who would have thought they all could be gone by 18? A mini reset here by the Dogs IMO I think will be in finals contention next year but top 4 is more likely in 2019 and beyond when I think we can really challenge again.

[choconmientay]

Still a rumour.

Hope it's not true.

I wonder If we need to pay Cloke out to have another spot on the list as he is contracted for next year? Is HC a chance to stay then?

[bulldogtragic]

Hope it's not true.

I wonder If we need to pay Cloke out to have another spot on the list as he is contracted for next year? Is HC a chance to stay then?

We are contracted to pay him. Whether we paid 100% I'm not sure. HC could stay, but I expect him to be at GWS.

[Doc26]

Hope it's not true.

I wonder If we need to pay Cloke out to have another spot on the list as he is contracted for next year? Is HC a chance to stay then?

Stevos Bulldog mail is pretty solid. When he's definitive, as he has been here with Crameri's exit, I'd be locking it in.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

When does the dfa period end?

[Sedat]

I'll throw my hat in the ring for Dylan Buckley as a DFA. Kick like a mule and runs the lines well. Far from perfect but has some tricks we could do with. I know it's a pretty empty bandwagon :D

Or maybe we use pick 82 on Billy Gowers (if he nominates and is there) and pick 102 on upgrading Smith?

[divvydan]

First DFA period is 1st to 8th of November. Second is 10th to 17th November and final is 25th to 26th November. The last one is post the National Draft.

[ledge]

So gone are Murphy, Boyd, Cloke, Crameri, Stringer and maybe Honeychurch and Campbell.

In Schache, Trengove and Crozier. Upgrade Smith, that leaves us with 3 players to replace, 9 16 and 111? If we take Smith at 82.
Or will Campbell leaving us be a swap as he is still under contract.

[azabob]

So gone are Murphy, Boyd, Cloke, Crameri, Stringer and maybe Honeychurch and Campbell.

In Schache, Trengove and Crozier. Upgrade Smith, that leaves us with 3 players to replace, 9 16 and 111? If we take Smith at 82.
Or will Campbell leaving us be a swap as he is still under contract.

Why do you have Campbell as an out?

[Grantysghost]

Afl.com.au calling Crameri to be delisted Link (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-25/another-dogs-forward-departs-with-stewart-crameri-cut)

[Ghost Dog]

Collingwood are doing weird things. Buying Mayne on a huge contract and then considering selling him back.

[Bulldog4life]

First DFA period is 1st to 8th of November. Second is 10th to 17th November and final is 25th to 26th November. The last one is post the National Draft.

So no hurry to decide who we want....as long as no one else grabs them.

[bulldogtragic]

Why do you have Campbell as an out?

Yep. Pushing blokes to quit the club and paying out contracts, is well, not good practice and very costly for nothing put a spot. It should only be a very rare exception from best practice.

I'd take a DFA over whatever the pick is after 83.

[Testekill]

I actually thought HC really started to show something before the facial infection issue that kept him out of the GC game. If he had of kicked straight previously do you think we'd be bemoaning his potential de-listing.

Nope. Mitch is a hard worker and I hope he hits the ground running wherever he goes but he can't kick. He's a pretty shocking finisher and he's too small to make up for it.

[Rocket Science]

The inference from all this, you'd think, is Boyd slated to spend more time forward and Schache given all the rope the can handle.

If neither settles effectively though I suppose we're back to the likes of Adams, Cordy & Young pinch hitting as tallish targets.

Interesting times.

[bulldogtragic]

The inference from all this, you'd think, is Boyd slated to spend more time forward and Schache given all the rope the can handle.

If neither settles effectively though I suppose we're back to the likes of Adams, Cordy & Young pinch hitting as tallish targets.

Interesting times.

Yep, I see the same. If we can get Boyd & Shaq in together, functioning well enough as a forward duo (trying to work our smalls and mids around them...) then we easily can get away with a one ruck strategy. If they can chop out 7-8 minutes in the ruck between them per quarter, then that makes selection easier. Whoever hs the present form out of Roughy, Campbell or English (depending on his preseason).

I'm looking forward to watching how they work together, with different approaches and styles.

[ledge]

Why do you have Campbell as an out?

I did say maybe, apparently he is looking at options. But he does have another year on his contract.

[Cyberdoggie]

The inference from all this, you'd think, is Boyd slated to spend more time forward and Schache given all the rope the can handle.

If neither settles effectively though I suppose we're back to the likes of Adams, Cordy & Young pinch hitting as tallish targets.

Interesting times.

You forgot Redpath.

Balance will be the key.

I thought Roughead had a terrible year for some reason, he looked way off, but 1 of hey and Campbell will have to play as the ruck/forward, with Boyd interchanging and Red/Schache as the other option.
It may mean we are too tall going by 2016 results.

We will definitely need to draft some more run and carry.

[Eastdog]

http://m.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-25/another-dogs-forward-departs-with-stewart-crameri-cut

Stewart Crameri will be delisted by the Dogs
• Check out all the retirements and delistings

STEWART Crameri's career at the Western Bulldogs is over, with the club not offering the forward another contract.

AFL.com.au understands the 28-year-old will be delisted ahead of the first list lodgement next Tuesday.

Crameri joins fellow forward Travis Cloke, who announced his retirement on Wednesday, as the latest list changes by the club.

Lured to the Bulldogs on a four-year deal from Essendon at the end of 2013, Crameri has played only 46 games in the red, white and blue in that period, for a career total of 99.

Crameri played only two senior games this season because to a troublesome hip, while he missed the Dogs' 2016 premiership triumph due to a season-long doping ban for his part in the Bombers' supplements scandal.

AFL.com.au revealed back in September that Essendon had some interest in bringing Crameri back to Tullamarine, but that may have ended after they traded in Jake Stringer from the Dogs.

His departure from the Whitten Oval leaves small forward Mitch Honeychurch as the only Bulldog without a contract for next season. The 22-year-old has been linked with a move to Greater Western Sydney as a delisted free agent.

Defender Roarke Smith is likely to be upgraded to the senior list after spending the maximum three seasons on the rookie list.

It's a great show of faith in the 21-year-old as he's succumbed to two ACL tears in the past 18 months.

[Rocket Science]

You forgot Redpath.

Balance will be the key.

I thought Roughead had a terrible year for some reason, he looked way off, but 1 of hey and Campbell will have to play as the ruck/forward, with Boyd interchanging and Red/Schache as the other option.
It may mean we are too tall going by 2016 results.

We will definitely need to draft some more run and carry.

No I didn't.

Jack's depth for mine. He's an honest soldier and will get his taste as others invariably falter but if we're relying on him for anything more than that we're going to need a very big swear jar.

Surely if the Boyd & Schache combo sticks there just isn't room for another big bloke down there who offers negligible pressure without our forward line functioning as a trampoline for opposition rebounders.

[bornadog]

I thought Roughead had a terrible year for some reason

You forgot he had a major injury in the preseason that restricted him to 13 games - missed almost the entire first half of the season.

[Remi Moses]

Not surprised by Cloke’s retirement , but a bit shocked they also delisted Crameri .
Besides a canon of a leg, McKenzie doesn’t offer much. Big endorsement of Roarke Smith, which is risky.
Forward structure is going to be interesting .

[The Underdog]

I have no idea who is going to kick goals for us next year.

[Axe Man]

Honeychurch stays, Crameri gone. :(

Dogs make further list changes (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-10-25/dogs-make-further-list-changes)

The Western Bulldogs Football Club has made two further changes to its playing list following the completion of the 2017 free agency and trade period.

Stewart Crameri has not been offered a contract for the 2018 season, while Mitch Honeychurch has signed a one-year extension to remain at VU Whitten Oval.

Travis Cloke has also announced his retirement.

Crameri has spent four seasons at the Bulldogs since crossing from Essendon at the end of the 2013 season, kicking 69 goals over 40 games before being restricted by suspension and injuries.

“Stewie showed what he was very capable of in those first two seasons with us, where his combination of athleticism and power was a feature,” Bulldogs List Manager Jason McCartney said.

“Through a variety of circumstances he’s only been able to get on the park five times over the last 24 months.

“We thank him for his efforts and dedication to the club and wish him well in the future.”

Mitch Honeychurch has played 22 games since being drafted with pick #60 in the 2013 NAB AFL Draft.

The 22-year-old added six games to his career tally in 2017, where he averaged 15 disposals per contest, including six score involvements and his 5.7 tackles per game, placing him fourth at the Club.

McCartney said the Club held high hopes for the tenacious Honeychurch.

“Mitch has improved every year he’s been at the Club, and if it weren’t for a late season injury, I’ve got no doubt he would have played a few more games in 2017,” he said.

“We look forward to seeing Mitch continue to develop as a player and as a person in our program.”

[bulldogtragic]

I'd have Cloke and a handful of DFAs ahead of Honeychurch. But he stays and I hope he proves me astonishingly wrong.

[Bulldog4life]

I like those changes. A balanced list now.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Ridiculous decision to keep Honeychurch.

We don't learn (Hamilton and Prudden etc.)

[Sedat]

I'd have Cloke and a handful of DFAs ahead of Honeychurch. But he stays and I hope he proves me astonishingly wrong.
Generous contract extension. Reckon he has survived because Butler and Costanza are premiership players.

Hope he can bring the heat in our F50 and convert his opportunities in 2018. I do like his intent, just don't think he has the tools to execute.

As an aside, there would be question marks over at least 10 players on our list in 12 months' time. I expect a serious cull next year, successful 2018 or otherwise.

[Sedat]

Ridiculous decision to keep Honeychurch.

We don't learn (Hamilton and Prudden etc.)
Ridiculous is a tad excessive - Honeychurch has shown capability at this level well in excess of Prudds and especially Hamilton. But it is a generous decision - he's a lucky boy IMO.

[Bulldog4life]

Ridiculous is a tad excessive - Honeychurch has shown capability at this level well in excess of Prudds and especially Hamilton. But it is a generous decision - he's a lucky boy IMO.

As Jmac said he has continued to improve which is a big plus for Honey. Before he fell ill he was playing quite well his only downfall being missed shots for goal. He had enough of the ball to be damaging. His endeavour and tackling were first class too. If he can improve his goal kicking....like a lot of our players....he will be very handy indeed.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Ridiculous is a tad excessive - Honeychurch has shown capability at this level well in excess of Prudds and especially Hamilton. But it is a generous decision - he's a lucky boy IMO.

If it's about capability, then Crameri is a long way ahead of Honeychurch.

I think it's a ridiculous decision because it's clear that Honeychurch isn't going to make the grade. His lack of size is one thing, but his severe lack of pace and skill makes him unplayable at the top level, particularly for a side with Premiership aspirations.

He's been on our list for 4 years - surely it's enough time to assess and then move on.

[Hotdog60]

Mitch's biggest downside is his conversion rate. If he nailed 95% of his pings at goal he would be seen in a different light.

[bornadog]

Ridiculous is a tad excessive - Honeychurch has shown capability at this level well in excess of Prudds and especially Hamilton. But it is a generous decision - he's a lucky boy IMO.

Whilst I think we should have let him go, he is at least a young player and this is the kick up the bum he might need to fight for his spot.

I really thought Crameri was a very good player for us, but no football in two years makes it hard for the club to keep him on.

[Sedat]

If it's about capability, then Crameri is a long way ahead of Honeychurch.

I think it's a ridiculous decision because it's clear that Honeychurch isn't going to make the grade. His lack of size is one thing, but his severe lack of pace and skill makes him unplayable at the top level, particularly for a side with Premiership aspirations.

He's been on our list for 4 years - surely it's enough time to assess and then move on.
Hard to disagree with any of that. Only caveat I'd say is that the premiers had a couple of short-arses with no skill in their F50 who were very effective at locking it in. They were quick though, much quicker than Honeychurch. He is lucky, no doubt about it.

Also Crameri must be cooked physically otherwise he'd surely be a lock to get another contract.

[Mofra]

Honeychurch applies elite defensive pressure at least, but I have grave concerns over his kicking.

Shame we couldn't hold onto Hrovat, any chance we get Higgins in the draft?

[Sedat]

Whilst I think we should have let him go, he is at least a young player and this is the kick up the bum he might need to fight for his spot.
Don't think Honey is a 'kick up the bum' candidate, just don't think he cuts the mustard.

I have no doubts about him giving 100% effort.

[Dry Rot]

As an aside, there would be question marks over at least 10 players on our list in 12 months' time. I expect a serious cull next year, successful 2018 or otherwise.

Who are those 10 in your eyes?

[Go_Dogs]

I’m very pleased with the announcements today.

HC may never be a worldbeater, Richmond smalls weren’t either but they formed a group capable of winning a flag this year and Mitch can help us in the defensive areas of the game. If he kicked better this year he would’ve had some multiple goal games, so he needs to straighten that out to remain in the system beyond 2018, however I like we’ve persisted with him.

Cloke a victim of Schache and Redpath’s 2 year deal, while Crammers is too long out the game with a hung hip which reduces his speed and running - his biggest assets (at least, presumably that’s what we’ve determined and based our decision on).

[jeemak]

I'm really happy for Mitch. I thought he improved this year, and with some better conversion would have had a bigger impact.

Perhaps I'm a bit different than others, but I think with confidence he'll become better at executing in front of goal and cement the small forward spot.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm really happy for Mitch. I thought he improved this year, and with some better conversion would have had a bigger impact.

Perhaps I'm a bit different than others, but I think with confidence he'll become better at executing in front of goal and cement the small forward spot.

Jinx.

Imagine HC and Dahl terrorising defenders once Boyd and Schache bring the ball to ground. Our time in F50 will double.

[Cyberdoggie]

I think HC is a good depth insurance player if you don't want to tap into kids that aren't ready.

1 year deal is ok in a weak draft where they may not of been much talent.

While I don't think he is good enough at least he has endeavour and i'd take that any day over many others.

[Cyberdoggie]

Glad we removed Cloke, Crameri and to some extent Stringer from the list.
We have had an issue with too many mid sized forwards. Can you play Stringer and Crameri plus other talls scenario.

I think it was clear Cloke was passed his used by, Crameri may never get his body right, and if he did probably only has a couple years left anyway, and Stringer, well there are plenty of issues there.

I don't think Redpath and Cloke could work together but Boyd/Roughie pinch hitting with Red will work, and then we have Schache if he gets up to the level required.

I think the changes have made the choices a little easier and hopefully the balance as well.

[jeemak]

Jinx.

Imagine HC and Dahl terrorising defenders once Boyd and Schache bring the ball to ground. Our time in F50 will double.

Does somebody have to say my name or something now that I'm jinxed? I haven't been jinxed in years!

[kruder]

Delaying the inevitable with Honey, I actually think his forward pressure isn't that great let alone his skills.

[Testekill]

So he's getting cut next season then. Got it.

[bornadog]

The story to date:

Out:

Matthew Boyd (ret)
Travis Cloke (ret)
Stewart Crameri (del)
Declan Hamilton (del)
Robert Murphy (ret)
Jake Stringer (trd)

In:

Schache
Crozier
Trengove

Leaves 3 live picks for Draft.

[Dry Rot]

The story to date:

Out:

Matthew Boyd (ret)
Travis Cloke (ret)
Stewart Crameri (del)
Declan Hamilton (del)
Robert Murphy (ret)
Jake Stringer (trd)



Well over 1000 games experience gone there.

[GVGjr]

I did say maybe, apparently he is looking at options. But he does have another year on his contract.

Honeychurch being on the potential outgoing list is fine because he doesn't have a contract. What triggered the Campbell is potentially going comment from you interests me?

[Sedat]

Who are those 10 in your eyes?
Off the top of my head without considering contract status:

Honey
Redders
Webb
Roughy
Greene
Morris
Biggsy
Dickson
Suckers
Campbell
C Smith
Roberts
Collins
Jong
Libba (if he relapses)

Lynch
R Smith
NM-M

Of course we won't make this many changes, and some are more vulnerable than others. I expect all of the above list to improve significantly on their 2017 output if they are serious about their long term AFL careers.

[GVGjr]

Mitch's biggest downside is his conversion rate. If he nailed 95% of his pings at goal he would be seen in a different light.

I was only saying that the other day. If he just converted one of every two missed shots within 35mtrs of the goal we would think he's about a best 22 player. He's just got to take his chances.

While I agree with a lot of what TBB says about keeping him on I think the fact that he has a sensational attitude towards training and doing the right things has saved him given we probably had some challenges in that area this year.

I hope Mitch works hard on his goal kicking because if he gets that right he will get a longer deal next year.

[Twodogs]

Does somebody have to say my name or something now that I'm jinxed? I haven't been jinxed in years!


Shoosh you.

[The Pie Man]

Negativity around Honeychurch is a touch harsh - wouldn’t have said he’s slow. Probably played our best stretch of footy through the middle of the year with him playing defensive forward. Gets involved and finds the footy, which is more than you can say for Webb when he’s had opportunities.

Happy with the extra year

[Remi Moses]

Ridiculous decision to keep Honeychurch.

We don't learn (Hamilton and Prudden etc.)

Gee just a bit melodramatic there. Every club has made list management errors , he’s lucky for mine

[hujsh]

Assumed there was someone we wanted to take at pick 82 leaving Rourke to be elevated at pick 100 odd.

Surprised we're going with Honeychurch over Crameri but not too surprised given the way Bevo spoke about him

[Dry Rot]

Off the top of my head without considering contract status:

Honey
Redders
Webb
Roughy
Greene
Morris
Biggsy
Dickson
Suckers
Campbell
C Smith
Roberts
Collins
Jong
Libba (if he relapses)

Lynch
R Smith
NM-M

Of course we won't make this many changes, and some are more vulnerable than others. I expect all of the above list to improve significantly on their 2017 output if they are serious about their long term AFL careers.

I get most of them, and its not flash that its almost half our list.

But why Biggs?

[GVGjr]

Negativity around Honeychurch is a touch harsh - wouldn’t have said he’s slow. Probably played our best stretch of footy through the middle of the year with him playing defensive forward. Gets involved and finds the footy, which is more than you can say for Webb when he’s had opportunities.

Happy with the extra year

I've made no secret that I like to turn the list over more just about every year but I'm not unhappy about Honeychurch getting one more year especially after the season we just had. If attitude and hard work mean much to us having someone like him around the club is worth the spot.

The challenge for him is to work on his goal kicking accuracy because if he gets that right he has chance to extend his stay with us.

[Sedat]

I get most of them, and its not flash that its almost half our list.

But why Biggs?
He's very safe but he needs to keep working on his game and getting better - there is plenty of competition for spots across half back.

When you have a season where barely anybody improved year on year, it puts pressure on a lot of players the following year. The fact that it is a long list is a positive for mine - there is so much improvement on our list that wasn't even close to being fully exploited in 2017.

[GVGjr]

Assumed there was someone we wanted to take at pick 82 leaving Rourke to be elevated at pick 100 odd.

Surprised we're going with Honeychurch over Crameri but not too surprised given the way Bevo spoke about him

You would have to think we haven't been happy with Crameri and that's why even with Cloke's departure we went with HC.

[AndrewP6]

I'll have to keep an eye on HC IN 2018, I can't see a reason for him getting an extension. I'm not privy to Crammers medical reports, surely that would have played some part in him being shown the door. On talent I'd much rather keep him over HC any day. He must know some secrets about some high ups at the Club.

[The Underdog]

I'll have to keep an eye on HC IN 2018, I can't see a reason for him getting an extension. I'm not privy to Crammers medical reports, surely that would have played some part in him being shown the door. On talent I'd much rather keep him over HC any day. He must know some secrets about some high ups at the Club.

Agree. Crameri has never kicked less than 30 goals when he’s had a good run a it. He’s also a forward who works hard up and down the ground.
HC has shown the ability to run around and stuff. I get the age difference but I’d take Crameri over Honey 8 days a week.

[jeemak]

I've made no secret that I like to turn the list over more just about every year but I'm not unhappy about Honeychurch getting one more year especially after the season we just had. If attitude and hard work mean much to us having someone like him around the club is worth the spot.

The challenge for him is to work on his goal kicking accuracy because if he gets that right he has chance to extend his stay with us.

The issue with turning the list over as a rule is you discard players with three or four years work under their belts and replace them with players who have none, and are just as likely not to make it anyway.

[Rocket Science]

Honeychurch the luckiest guy in footy.

I suppose if we need a swarm at the feet of Boyd & Schache & Redpath he's as likely as any so gets anorher chance.

I'm sorry but he ain't AFL standard and had we any decent crumbers who can tackle and pounce he'd be gone.

Fingers crossed he cements a niche.

[jeemak]

How is he not AFL standard if he’s played well at the level and has a contract to back it up?

Not everyone in the AFL is perfect.

[ledge]

I actually thought he improved a lot and was just starting to find his feet when he got sick.

[Mofra]

In defence of HC he did stick 10 tackles in a game last year as a pressure forward, he does at least try his heart out and doesn't drop his head.
Perhaps a lot of our list strategy this trade period is about delivering a message to the group about professionalism and training standards?

Trengove is one of the most solid characters in the AFL, Crozier doesn't seem like a dickhead at all, Schache isn't a partier, Stringer and Crameri gone, HC rewarded.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

As a small forward you need the following traits:

- Defensive mindset
- Forward craft
- Pace
- Skill

HC has a defensive mindset, but he lacks forward craft. He looks like a midfielder who is playing forward which is understandable, given he played his junior footy as a mid. Unfortunately he's too small to be a mid at AFL level.

Whilst the small forwards don't need to be overly aggressive/strong, they need to compensate with genuine pace. HC just isn't quick enough.

While I agree that his attitude is first class, surely we have enough hard working individuals to set high standards. Second to that, I would have been looking at replacing his spot on the list with a mature state league player (ie. Gowers).

[GVGjr]

As a small forward you need the following traits:

- Defensive mindset
- Forward craft
- Pace
- Skill

HC has a defensive mindset, but he lacks forward craft. He looks like a midfielder who is playing forward which is understandable, given he played his junior footy as a mid. Unfortunately he's too small to be a mid at AFL level.

Whilst the small forwards don't need to be overly aggressive/strong, they need to compensate with genuine pace. HC just isn't quick enough.

While I agree that his attitude is first class, surely we have enough hard working individuals to set high standards. Second to that, I would have been looking at replacing his spot on the list with a mature state league player (ie. Gowers).

I agree with a lot of this but I'm not convinced Gowers is an upgrade on HC. We can probably find better players than HC but given we are picking from the back of the queue we don't want a situation where our targeted players are gone before our picks like how we missed on Long and Hanahan last year

[GVGjr]

In defence of HC he did stick 10 tackles in a game last year as a pressure forward, he does at least try his heart out and doesn't drop his head.
Perhaps a lot of our list strategy this trade period is about delivering a message to the group about professionalism and training standards?

Trengove is one of the most solid characters in the AFL, Crozier doesn't seem like a dickhead at all, Schache isn't a partier, Stringer and Crameri gone, HC rewarded.

I think this makes the most sense to me, I think we could have cut deeper into the list but picking from the back end of the draft probably weakens our position and makes HC look more like a better option.

[Webby]

I was of the opinion that HC wasn't quite up to it, however, after chatting to a mate, I've been swayed that he's worth keeping on the list.

Reason being team balance, character and particularly the kid's forward line pressure. Although I still believe he's too slow to do any real damage in midfield, he's reasonably quick over 5-10m and is a good tackler. In the modern game and particularly with some tall forwards, he'll be a handy option as a small defensive forward.

He has the Mick McKenna, Terry Wheeler, Libba Snr pluck and desire - which not only makes them likeable as a fan, but I think rubs off on the group.

[Happy Days]

In defence of HC he did stick 10 tackles in a game last year as a pressure forward, he does at least try his heart out and doesn't drop his head.
Perhaps a lot of our list strategy this trade period is about delivering a message to the group about professionalism and training standards?

Don't know how to get a read on HC; some are saying things similar to this, others have him inside the worst 31 players in the comp.

[jeemak]

Don't know how to get a read on HC; some are saying things similar to this, others have him inside the worst 31 players in the comp.

You should make up your own mind.

[Twodogs]

I agree with a lot of this but I'm not convinced Gowers is an upgrade on HC. We can probably find better players than HC but given we are picking from the back of the queue we don't want a situation where our targeted players are gone before our picks like how we missed on Long and Hanahan last year

Gowers has sticky hands but is one of the most frustrating kicks I. Have. Ever. Seen. It's 'spread out this could go anywhere' time when he's shooting at goal.

I went for a check up a couple of weeks ago and my doctor said my blood pressure was ideal but I don't think it could withstand a season of me watching Billy Gowers spray the ball everywhere to go with the rest of our goalkicking efforts.

[G-Mo77]

Geez I hope HC has a terrific season and sticks it up a lot of arses in here.

[Rocket Science]

Geez I hope HC has a terrific season and sticks it up a lot of arses in here.

I'd gladly assume the position if Honeychurch steps up and helps make us harder to play against!

Just not sure I wanna hold my breath waiting for it.

[Happy Days]

You should make up your own mind.

Oh I've definitely made up my mind on Honeychurch, he isn't good at AFL and I would have preferred the dart throw at 82 in the draft.

The other post might be a reference to a certain thread made by a certain poster on a certain other football forum.

[bornadog]

Oh I've definitely made up my mind on Honeychurch, he isn't good at AFL and I would have preferred the dart throw at 82 in the draft.

The other post might be a reference to a certain thread made by a certain poster on a certain other football forum.

Do you really think a pick 82 would be better than HC? I think we don't have much choice but to keep him. If we had a pick inside the second round, he would most likely be gone.

[Mantis]

Do you really think a pick 82 would be better than HC? I think we don't have much choice but to keep him. If we had a pick inside the second round, he would most likely be gone.

It's the known vs the unknown.. Mitch is highly unlikely to forge out a decent AFL career, what pick 82 becomes is a mystery.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Do you really think a pick 82 would be better than HC? I think we don't have much choice but to keep him. If we had a pick inside the second round, he would most likely be gone.

I understand the rationale, but if you're certain the known quantity (HC) won't make it then I don't understand why you keep them on for another year. I'd rather put 12-24 months development into another player, be it a young kid or a state league player.

On the first point, surely we should know whether HC is going to make it or not after 4 years.

Traditionally we keep players on the list too long and this is another example IMO.

[jeemak]

It says to me that we at least rate Mitch good enough for depth, in a year where we think we should be having a crack.

[LostDoggy]

Given we've lost Stringer, Crameri, Cloke and Murphy (who played a fair bit forward last year), and we have Picken (30) and Dickson (29 with ongoing injury issues) as probably our starting deep small/mid forwards, I can't blame our list managers for seeing HC as a bit of insurance for 2018 ahead of whomever may be available at pick 82.

[kruder]

Is it just me or do others think the Bulldogs are going through a mini reset? I still think we can be competitive in 18 but all that we are doing looks for mine that we are gearing towards 19-20 and beyond when we can sustain a top 4 finish and be in the so called window again. Where do people think the list is at now we are only have few spots available?

[boydogs]

Is it just me or do others think the Bulldogs are going through a mini reset? I still think we can be competitive in 18 but all that we are doing looks for mine that we are gearing towards 19-20 and beyond when we can sustain a top 4 finish and be in the so called window again. Where do people think the list is at now we are only have few spots available?

There's a long list of players who underperformed in 2017, if most step up we could be top 4 but that's probably unlikely

[FrediKanoute]

Agree. Crameri has never kicked less than 30 goals when he’s had a good run a it. He’s also a forward who works hard up and down the ground.
HC has shown the ability to run around and stuff. I get the age difference but I’d take Crameri over Honey 8 days a week.

The way Crammers presented after 12 months off was awful - for a guy who had been robbed of 12 months of footy and seen his team win a flag you would have expected him to be ready to go. Instead he presents unfit and on the heavy side. Then lets not forget here is a guy who is so confident in his team he schedules a wedding for the Friday before the GF. No big loss.

[Twodogs]

There's a long list of players who underperformed in 2017, if most step up we could be top 4 but that's probably unlikely

Almost as unlikely as us winning the flag was last year. Those years when you win the flag from seventh spot don't come around all that often though.

[macca]

Could HC be just one of those players who come good after 50 games? I reckon his a natural footballer, but limited with his physical attributes. Had terrible fumbles in the Adelaide game this year.

2017 states:

GM K HB D M G B T
Total 6 43 44 87 19 1 8 34
Average 7.2 7.3 14.5 3.2 0.2 1.3 5.7

if he kicked 4 goals instead of 8 behinds, that 5 goals in 6 matches, I think we would see him in a different light

5.7 tackles a game. I am hoping he has a big year next year, and he can prove the doubters. Go Mitch!

[LostDoggy]

Is it just me or do others think the Bulldogs are going through a mini reset? I still think we can be competitive in 18 but all that we are doing looks for mine that we are gearing towards 19-20 and beyond when we can sustain a top 4 finish and be in the so called window again. Where do people think the list is at now we are only have few spots available?

In my opinion every trade/draft period is a mini reset. We are building a list that can challenge over several years rather than have a small window. No doubt we had organisational issues and a minority of players that were nor professional in 2017 but I still think if our list performs to it's potential next year we'll be around the mark.

[ledge]

We must be close to being the youngest side in the Comp, a quick look and we have lost 1000 games experience and added about 200.
I truely believe we will come back hard next year and defenitely make the 8 , our team will only get better after players like Young and Lipinski got games . We have a huge upside.
Starting to think Luke had planned last year as a kind of gap year in the fact he knew a lot of experience was going and bought in some young players to prepare them for next year.

[1eyedog]

Is it just me or do others think the Bulldogs are going through a mini reset? I still think we can be competitive in 18 but all that we are doing looks for mine that we are gearing towards 19-20 and beyond when we can sustain a top 4 finish and be in the so called window again. Where do people think the list is at now we are only have few spots available?

It's just you I reckon we'll win the flag next year. As for HC he's never had a sustained run at it. He can be good enough and next year is his chance.

[The Underdog]

The way Crammers presented after 12 months off was awful - for a guy who had been robbed of 12 months of footy and seen his team win a flag you would have expected him to be ready to go. Instead he presents unfit and on the heavy side. Then lets not forget here is a guy who is so confident in his team he schedules a wedding for the Friday before the GF. No big loss.

I’m no expert on player fitness but if he presented that poorly then why’d they play him in round 1 & 2? He had 17 possessions, a goal and 4 tackles in round 1. Not world beating, but ok. He was poor in round 2 but then missed the rest of the season with injury.
As for the 2nd point. He was suspended for the season anyway. He wasn’t playing regardless of what the team did. Yes it was an odd timing but it wouldn’t have been a thing in 62 out of 63 years. Doesn’t make him a prick as far as I can tell.
Anyway, I hope he gets another shot. He’s an AFL player with a skill set we’re not long on.

[dukedog]

Roarke smith gone too. Doggies being relentless. Good signs they arnt being soft this year. Unlucky for him. Seems like a nice kid.

[jeemak]

Lot's of fretting on here about that one.......where was it reported?

[LostDoggy]

That is surprising. Now he is off the list, can we re-rookie? From memory ths has been done in the past.

Makes pick 82 an interesting one.

[LostDoggy]

Lot's of fretting on here about that one.......where was it reported?

There is an article on the AFL website.

[Go_Dogs]

That is surprising. Now he is off the list, can we re-rookie? From memory ths has been done in the past.

Makes pick 82 an interesting one.

Yes, if available we can select him as a rookie.

Will be interesting to see whether we go down that patH. Can we pick up a DFA in the draft or are they ineligible? Clearly something we are interested in must be available but unlikely we know a speculative kid we want will be there at 82? Maybe we have a lot of faith in the depth of this draft?

[Dry Rot]

There is an article on the AFL website.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-10-31/dogs-push-former-pick-no5-smith-out-of-the-kennel

[Dry Rot]

Does this mean we are going after a delisted player? Who?

[bulldogtragic]

No we have to use pick 82.

Any DFA would've been the spot Honeychurch has.

[GVGjr]

Sad to see him go because with his injuries he never got a great run at it but I do feel it's the right decision.

We have to pick someone at the draft or promote a rookie don't we? We can't make a move on a FA can we?

[GVGjr]

No we have to use pick 82.

Any DFA would've been the spot Honeychurch has.

Thanks BT, that is what I thought. We could promote a rookie I think

[LostDoggy]

I so hope the player we are looking at with 82 is Liam Ryan.

[bulldogtragic]

Sad to see him go because with his injuries he never got a great run at it but I do feel it's the right decision.

We have to pick someone at the draft or promote a rookie don't we? We can't make a move on a FA can we?

Three selections at the draft we need to use. We don't have a 4th vacancy to go DFA shopping.

Primary List In: Schache, Trengove, Crozier, Pick 9, Pick 16, Pick 82 (6)
Primary List Out: Bob, Boyd, Hamilton, Cloke, Stringer, Crameri (6)

[Dry Rot]

No we have to use pick 82.

Any DFA would've been the spot Honeychurch has.

OK thanks.

So its a lucky dip.

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks BT, that is what I thought. We could promote a rookie I think

Yep, we could, but I think Lynch & NMM have already signed contracts. Since they can play from round 1 next year, best keep them there and pick up a speculative pick like Sambono etc.

[Sedat]

Hope we re-rookie Smith - think he can make it if he has an uninterrupted run, and the rookie list is where he can do it without the pressure of a senior list spot.

We've certainly become hard-arse this off season.

[bulldogtragic]

OK thanks.

So its a lucky dip.

Yeah, I watched some Sambono (NT Thunder) clips on YouTube. I'd take a piece of that.

[G-Mo77]

Smith will probably be better than anyone that is going to be available at 82. Unless we're going to re-rookie I'm really pissed about this news.

[bulldogtragic]

Hope we re-rookie Smith - think he can make it if he has an uninterrupted run.

We've certainly become hard-arse this off season.

Yep. Pick 27 in the RD is a worthwhile decision.

[bornadog]

Smith will probably be better than anyone that is going to be available at 82. Unless we're going to re-rookie I'm really pissed about this news.

They are my thoughts too. We are taking the risk by using pick 82 on an unknown. If our thoughts were we will pickup Smith in the Rookie draft, then why not pickup an unknow in the rookie and not 82

[LostDoggy]

They are my thoughts too. We are taking the risk by using pick 82 on an unknown. If our thoughts were we will pickup Smith in the Rookie draft, then why not pickup an unknow in the rookie and not 82

If we have concerns about Smith's body (which would seem reasonable), then a Rookie spot means a 1 year deal, whereas a senior list spot means 2 (unless it's recently changed). Maybe this is the thinking. Otherwise we may have someone in mind who may be grabbed late draft or very early in the rookie draft?

[jeemak]

They are my thoughts too. We are taking the risk by using pick 82 on an unknown. If our thoughts were we will pickup Smith in the Rookie draft, then why not pickup an unknow in the rookie and not 82

Smith has dodgy knees and is a development prospect at best now. The Rookie List is the perfect spot for him.

[GVGjr]

They are my thoughts too. We are taking the risk by using pick 82 on an unknown. If our thoughts were we will pickup Smith in the Rookie draft, then why not pickup an unknow in the rookie and not 82

I'm not sure this argument holds up because when I look at Fergus Greene who was a late selection last year I think we got an excellent prospect who I think is more than capable of playing 60 plus senior games of football. To me Smith is never likely to get to that mark in fact not even close to it. He has quite a few limitations and I think I've asked this of you before about Smith but what have you seen in him to give him another 12 months?
If you want safety rather than the unknown then we will never turn a list over and we will continue to stick with marginal players.

We might have earmarked a couple of likely prospects and if they aren't there when it's our turn to make the call we could easily still select him. I just don't think he offers enough upside to commit to him now.

[G-Mo77]

I doubt Fergus would have been available at 82. It just makes absolutely no sense to me.

[G-Mo77]

If we have concerns about Smith's body (which would seem reasonable), then a Rookie spot means a 1 year deal, whereas a senior list spot means 2 (unless it's recently changed). Maybe this is the thinking. Otherwise we may have someone in mind who may be grabbed late draft or very early in the rookie draft?

Does it mean 2 years though? Isn't it dependent on what round you are drafted or am I thinking NBA?

[LostDoggy]

Does it mean 2 years though? Isn't it dependent on what round you are drafted or am I thinking NBA?

Im pretty sure that if you get drafted to the main list then you get 2 years no matter what.

[G-Mo77]

Im pretty sure that if you get drafted to the main list then you get 2 years no matter what.

If that is the case then it does make a lot more sense then.

[GVGjr]

I doubt Fergus would have been available at 82. It just makes absolutely no sense to me.

My understanding is that we had originally earmarked Greene as a rookie but jumped early when other players were selected ahead of him. Why do you think Smith could play a bit of senior football?

[GVGjr]

Im pretty sure that if you get drafted to the main list then you get 2 years no matter what.

I stand to be corrected but my understanding is that if you are drafted from interstate then it's a 2 year deal but it can be a one year deal if you are drafted in your home state.

[bulldogtragic]

Smith can play senior footy with us from round 1 next year if we rookie draft him. I'd guess he'd be there at pick 27.

[G-Mo77]

My understanding is that we had originally earmarked Greene as a rookie but jumped early when other players were selected ahead of him. Why do you think Smith could play a bit of senior football?

Why don't you think he can't? I've always thought there is a bit of Easton Wood about him, obviously nowhere near that level but has similar traits.

[GVGjr]

Smith can play senior footy with us from round 1 next year if we rookie draft him. I'd guess he'd be there at pick 27.

And that makes a bit of sense to me.

[GVGjr]

Why don't you think he can't? I've always thought there is a bit of Easton Wood about him, obviously nowhere near that level but has similar traits.

He's awful on his opposite foot, he isn't creative and other than having a good leap and a bit of pace I don't think he offers that much.
Now that is a harsh assessment given he has struggled to get on the park but if I saw more in him I'd be more than happy to select him. Having him at pick 82 is around the mark but I don't think you or BAD have put up a compelling reason to upgrade him.

[bulldogtragic]

And that makes a bit of sense to me.

The reality is no club will touch him without a medical. If he refuses medicals, he's there at 27 in the RD.

He gets less salary, which is not good for him. We grab a player at 82 in stead of 27 RD. That could be an effective 40+ pick upgrade. That's better for Dalrymple.

[GVGjr]

The reality is no club will touch him without a medical. If he refuses medicals, he's there at 27 in the RD.

He gets less salary, which is not good for him. We grab a player at 82 in stead of 27 RD. That could be an effective 40+ pick upgrade. That's better for Dalrymple.

The other thing is that for pick 82 I think people are expecting us to draft an unknown youngster so then why not go for Smith but we could also perhaps draft a ready made player who nominates for the draft.

[G-Mo77]

If healthy I think we would have seen in a fair bit at senior level especially considering the horrible season we had. But I'm not going to try and change anyone's mind, if healthy I think he could be a decent player for us and I really don't want to lose him.

[bulldogtragic]

The other thing is that for pick 82 I think people are expecting us to draft an unknown youngster so then why not go for Smith but we could also perhaps draft a ready made player who nominates for the draft.

GWS took De Boer & Mzungu late last year. Having 82 as a live pick gives us options on draft night. Several types of options as you say. With Dal's recent work in particular, giving him another live pick is a good thing. We will have Smith at the club next year if we simply rookie draft him. So this is not all too bad.

[choconmientay]

We are committed to him for a rookie spot on our list http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-10-31/bulldogs-commit-to-redrafting-roarke-smith-

....
“We have had positive discussions with Roarke and his management about the Club’s commitment to him, and we intend to re-draft him as a rookie,” said Bulldogs List Manager Jason McCartney.

[Sedat]

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-10-31/bulldogs-commit-to-redrafting-roarke-smith-

Looks like we're going to re-rookie Smith. Good result all round.