The Moving-Rolling Delisting/Retiring/Trading Thread 2017

[bulldogtragic]

Time stops for no one. Next off-season firms as a crucial year. So basic forward looking:

Retiring Candidates based on age (obviously form & fitness are more important than dob): Bob, Matty Boyd, Morris (3)

Candidates needing a strong year: Prudden, Honeychurch, Hamilton (3)

Trading Candidates: Adams, based on his request/suggestion/offer to be traded this year (1)

[Twodogs]

Who's out of contract at year's end? JJ would most ur gent I guess.

[Topdog]

Borrowed from BigFooty. Thanks to BRG93 for keeping it up-to-date.

Matthew Boyd (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Clay Smith (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Dale Morris (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Declan Hamilton (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Jack Redpath (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Robert Murphy (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Josh Duckley (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Kieren Collins (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Marcus Adams (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Bailey Williams (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Bailey Dale (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Lukas Webb (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Toby McLean (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Caleb Daniel (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Mitch Honeychurch (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Fletcher Roberts (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Liam Picken (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Jason Johannisen (2017) (Re-Signed 2014)
Stewart Crameri (2017) (Traded For in 2013)


Quite a lot of work to do!!! I was going to highlight those that I thought were most important but I had 10 highlighted so stopped

[KT31]

Borrowed from BigFooty. Thanks to BRG93 for keeping it up-to-date.

Matthew Boyd (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Clay Smith (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Dale Morris (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Declan Hamilton (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Jack Redpath (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Robert Murphy (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Josh Duckley (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Kieren Collins (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Marcus Adams (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Bailey Williams (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Bailey Dale (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Lukas Webb (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Toby McLean (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Caleb Daniel (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Mitch Honeychurch (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Fletcher Roberts (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Liam Picken (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Jason Johannisen (2017) (Re-Signed 2014)
Stewart Crameri (2017) (Traded For in 2013)


Quite a lot of work to do!!! I was going to highlight those that I thought were most important but I had 10 highlighted so stopped

Bit of work but around five or six players would be on year to year deals, Crameri should stick by us and hopefully a few will be extended prior to the season commencing.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Borrowed from BigFooty. Thanks to BRG93 for keeping it up-to-date.

Matthew Boyd (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Clay Smith (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Dale Morris (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Declan Hamilton (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Jack Redpath (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Robert Murphy (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Josh Duckley (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Kieren Collins (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Marcus Adams (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Bailey Williams (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Bailey Dale (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Lukas Webb (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Toby McLean (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Caleb Daniel (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Mitch Honeychurch (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Fletcher Roberts (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Liam Picken (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Jason Johannisen (2017) (Re-Signed 2014)
Stewart Crameri (2017) (Traded For in 2013)


Quite a lot of work to do!!! I was going to highlight those that I thought were most important but I had 10 highlighted so stopped

2017 is where our recruiting team is going to earn their keep. As Topdog points out there are a lot of important guys here, and hopefully the Hurley deal falling over, means we've got good 'walking around money' to re-sign everyone we wish to keep.

[Axe Man]

That list doesn't concern me too much. JJ is the priority as other clubs will come hard for him if he remains unsigned deep into the season. Adams we will be trying to convince to stay. The players need to address the disconnect from the playing group that Adams apparently felt.

Boyd, Murphy & Morris will either retire or sign a 1 year deal.
Crameri & Picken should just be a formality to re-sign.
Would be surprised if there are any major issues re-signing Dunkley, Collins, Williams, McLean, Daniel, Clay Smith or Redpath.
Hamilton, Dale, Webb and Honeychurch need good seasons to be offered contracts.
Roberts will likely be re-signed without fuss unless Adams stays and we also look to recruit a quality key back from somewhere else.

[comrade]

Borrowed from BigFooty. Thanks to BRG93 for keeping it up-to-date.

Matthew Boyd (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Clay Smith (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Dale Morris (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Declan Hamilton (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Jack Redpath (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Robert Murphy (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Josh Duckley (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Kieren Collins (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Marcus Adams (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Bailey Williams (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Bailey Dale (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Lukas Webb (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Toby McLean (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Caleb Daniel (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Mitch Honeychurch (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Fletcher Roberts (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Liam Picken (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Jason Johannisen (2017) (Re-Signed 2014)
Stewart Crameri (2017) (Traded For in 2013)


Quite a lot of work to do!!! I was going to highlight those that I thought were most important but I had 10 highlighted so stopped

Must signs are bolded.

Happy to wait and see on the older players. Hoping Dale pops up and becomes a must sign.

[Axe Man]

Must signs are bolded.

Happy to wait and see on the older players. Hoping Dale pops up and becomes a must sign.

Would you re-sign Webb if he has a poor season? I think he needs to step up in 2017 to be safe.

[GVGjr]

That list doesn't concern me too much. JJ is the priority as other clubs will come hard for him if he remains unsigned deep into the season. Adams we will be trying to convince to stay. The players need to address the disconnect from the playing group that Adams apparently felt.

Boyd, Murphy & Morris will either retire or sign a 1 year deal.
Crameri & Picken should just be a formality to re-sign.
Would be surprised if there are any major issues re-signing Dunkley, Collins, Williams, McLean, Daniel, Clay Smith or Redpath.
Hamilton, Dale, Webb and Honeychurch need good seasons to be offered contracts.
Roberts will likely be re-signed without fuss unless Adams stays and we also look to recruit a quality key back from somewhere else.

I'm wondering how hard it will be to get an agreement from JJ as he and Stringer are very close. If we don't mess him around I'd think he will sign on again.

[azabob]

Borrowed from BigFooty. Thanks to BRG93 for keeping it up-to-date.


Quite a lot of work to do!!! I was going to highlight those that I thought were most important but I had 10 highlighted so stopped

I think BT put together a similar list a week or so back also.

[KT31]

Must signs are bolded.

Happy to wait and see on the older players. Hoping Dale pops up and becomes a must sign.

Highlighting was a great idea, wish I had thought of it.:)

If Smith has no major issues he would be on my priority list ahead of Webb.
JJ defiantly top priority and one would imagine a big pay rise.

[GVGjr]

Would you re-sign Webb if he has a poor season? I think he needs to step up in 2017 to be safe.

Tend to agree although it's a harsh environment for a player who did well in his 1st year and got squeezed out of senior games in his 2nd year because the team was performing so well and he was given a new role.

[comrade]

Would you re-sign Webb if he has a poor season? I think he needs to step up in 2017 to be safe.

I'm a big fan of his foot skills and intercept marking and he added a new string to his bow this year as an inside, clearance winning mid. Clearly is very coachable.

I'd re-sign him early. Even if he has a poor season, teams will enquire about him and being contracted gives us more leverage if we do want to move him on. I hate talented players being out of contract, after getting peanuts for Hrovat and Stevens.

[azabob]

I'm wondering how hard it will be to get an agreement from JJ as he and Stringer are very close. If we don't mess him around I'd think he will sign on again.

As you mentioned above and referenced in another post if we put forward a strong offer to JJ you would think he'd have no hesitation in signing on again.

What happens if Stringer is unhappy with the club? Does this impact JJ decision making - I don't necessarily think it would.

As we all know things are changing in the football landscape, younger players are changing clubs regardless of contract status. In this case you are right JJ and Stringer are extremely close. However what we are also seeing is younger players are close with a lot of younger players regardless of what teams they play for.

Caddy and Prestia are still close mates from the Gold Coast days, Jager O'Meara is close with a number of the GWS boys, Marcus Bontempelli is close with Josh Kelly from GWS and there are bound to be numerous more examples.

Even when one player choses to leave their club and go to another club this isn't impacting friendship between players - It appears that each and every player coming through nowadays is fully aware that AFL is now a business and like any other day job.

[azabob]

Time stops for no one. Next off-season firms as a crucial year. So basic forward looking:

Retiring Candidates based on age (obviously form & fitness are more important than dob): Bob, Matty Boyd, Morris (3)

Candidates needing a strong year: Prudden, Honeychurch, Hamilton (3)

Trading Candidates: Adams, based on his request/suggestion/offer to be traded this year (1)


I think that Clay Smith and Jack Redpath also need to be added to the candidates requiring a strong year.

Clay Smith needs to get through the season and play 20 plus games and Redpath needs to not put a foot wrong in his rehab program as if Cloke and Crameri perform along with the other forwards he could find himself squeezed out.

[bulldogtragic]

I think that Clay Smith and Jack Redpath also need to be added to the candidates requiring a strong year.

Clay Smith needs to get through the season and play 20 plus games and Redpath needs to not put a foot wrong in his rehab program as if Cloke and Crameri perform along with the other forwards he could find himself squeezed out.

Fair calls. With my jinx on players I didn't want to bring it up, but it's a fair call.

[GVGjr]

As you mentioned above and referenced in another post if we put forward a strong offer to JJ you would think he'd have no hesitation in signing on again.

What happens if Stringer is unhappy with the club? Does this impact JJ decision making - I don't necessarily think it would.



I guess my point is that if you are already happy at a place and your best mate is there then you will probably not be swayed by better financial offers. The club just needs to be pro-active and fair with the financials and I don't see it as a hard sell.

[Go_Dogs]

I guess my point is that if you are already happy at a place and your best mate is there then you will probably not be swayed by better financial offers. The club just needs to be pro-active and fair with the financials and I don't see it as a hard sell.

Agree with this.

We've been caught snoozing before and given the momentum our 2016 has created, I'd hope we move quickly getting onto our key signings. Given contracts are now worth nothing, there's no real incentive for players and their managers to delay signing as they'll simply do whatever they want come end of season.

[westdog54]

Borrowed from BigFooty. Thanks to BRG93 for keeping it up-to-date.

Matthew Boyd (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Clay Smith (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Dale Morris (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Declan Hamilton (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Jack Redpath (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Robert Murphy (2017) (Re-Signed 2016)
Josh Duckley (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Kieren Collins (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Marcus Adams (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Bailey Williams (2017) (Under 2 Year Draftee Deal)
Bailey Dale (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Lukas Webb (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Toby McLean (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Caleb Daniel (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Mitch Honeychurch (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Fletcher Roberts (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Liam Picken (2017) (Re-Signed 2015)
Jason Johannisen (2017) (Re-Signed 2014)
Stewart Crameri (2017) (Traded For in 2013)


Quite a lot of work to do!!! I was going to highlight those that I thought were most important but I had 10 highlighted so stopped
Going through 1 by 1:

Boyd: Will almost certainly retire.
Smith: Signed a 1 year deal to see how his knees hold up. Fair enough on club and player.
Morris: Will retire or a further 1 year deal, fitness and form depending.
Hamilton: Make or break year for him. Up to him to show he's worth it, not the other way around.
Redpath: Only does 1 year deals. His call.
Murphy: Form and fitness by years end.
Dunkley: Must retain.
Collins: Watch how he develops but I'd be inclined to sign him up for a further 2 to let him develop.
Adams: Will most likely ask for a trade West.
Williams: Must re-sign
Dale: Watch his development. Might attract some trade interest.
Webb: Might attract some interest. Rate him highly.
McLean: CANNOT afford to let him remain uncontracted at seasons end. Need to secure him.
Daniel: As above.
Honeychurch: Some work to do to retain his spot.
Roberts: With Adams likely gone by years end he's got an opportunity to prove his worth.
Picken: Would be stunned if he walks but there'll be interest aplenty.
JJ: Priority number 1 is getting him signed up for at least 3 years.
Crameri: Will be interesting to see how he returns. With Cloke at the club now he's more important than ever for our structure.

Its a long list but it ain't as bad as it looks.

[azabob]

Good summary Westdog54 - Dale IMO is a must sign as well and I have a feeling Adams will remain beyond 2017.

[westdog54]

Dale is a funny one. Has plenty of talent, good skills and good decision making but does he get enough of the ball to be effective?

[azabob]

Dale is a funny one. Has plenty of talent, good skills and good decision making but does he get enough of the ball to be effective?

He does at the lower level, I think once he gets stronger and fitter he should get more of the ball.

[bulldogtragic]

He does at the lower level, I think once he gets stronger and fitter he should get more of the ball.

I tend to agree. His work in September was pretty good. At the top level this year he had limited exposure to high disposal roles. I think it was the Adelaide narrow win, that he had a hand somewhere in the chain of the last three goals with smart, clever, clean use of the footy. His challenge along with 20 others is that we bat just do bloody deep right now. He may also find a role at high half back a bit more next year too. I like the kid a lot, and I'd extend him to 2019 no dramas. And really what's a contract anyway...

[azabob]

I tend to agree. His work in September was pretty good. At the top level this year he had limited exposure to high disposal roles. I think it was the Adelaide narrow win, that he had a hand somewhere in the chain of the last three goals with smart, clever, clean use of the footy. His challenge along with 20 others is that we bat just do bloody deep right now. He may also find a role at high half back a bit more next year too. I like the kid a lot, and I'd extend him to 2019 no dramas. And really what's a contract anyway...

Agree with all that. He also has long limbs which sounds odd but is suited to bulldogs football.

[lemmon]

Agree with all that. He also has long limbs which sounds odd but is suited to bulldogs football.

I think he's a forward. He's kicked bags at Footscray, plays taller than he is and finishes well. I could see him ending up in a similiar role to Dickson, but playing in a different style

[Smads57]

Re Dale, I have watched him in a number of VFL games this year and my criticism of him is the difference between his best and worst games - he needs to lessen the difference over the next 12 months. His 'best' is very good and he is worth persevering with if he can play to a more consistent level in 2017.

[Eastdog]

Dale is a funny one. Has plenty of talent, good skills and good decision making but does he get enough of the ball to be effective?

We certainly need to see Dale more in the AFL to start seeing how he'll go at the top level. I think Adams now with the loss of Hamling becomes important as well as Fletch. Hope for a good 2017 again from MBoydy, Morris and also a good one from Bob.

[1eyedog]

Dale is a funny one. Has plenty of talent, good skills and good decision making but does he get enough of the ball to be effective?

He'll get more of it as he develops although out of all of that draft class who has played senior football he looks the least likely. He's a nice player but his size and his lack of contested work means that his best football will be in a very good side.

Do we seem him as purely a medium forward?

[bulldogtragic]

He'll get more of it as he develops although out of all of that draft class who has played senior football he looks the least likely. He's a nice player but his size and his lack of contested work means that his best football will be in a very good side.

Do we seem him as purely a medium forward?

Have heard Bevo talk about a believed capacity to play down back as well.

[Eastdog]

We certainly need to see Dale more in the AFL to start seeing how he'll go at the top level. I think Adams now with the loss of Hamling becomes important as well as Fletch. Hope for a good 2017 again from MBoydy, Morris and also a good one from Bob.

And Collins as well.

[LostDoggy]

Have heard Bevo talk about a believed capacity to play down back as well.

Dale does seem to have some really good attributes for a zone type defence. With the right development, he could be lethal as an intercept marking, long kicking, ball carrying half back.

[FrediKanoute]

Going through 1 by 1:

Boyd: Will almost certainly retire.
Smith: Signed a 1 year deal to see how his knees hold up. Fair enough on club and player.
Morris: Will retire or a further 1 year deal, fitness and form depending.
Hamilton: Make or break year for him. Up to him to show he's worth it, not the other way around.
Redpath: Only does 1 year deals. His call.
Murphy: Form and fitness by years end.
Dunkley: Must retain.
Collins: Watch how he develops but I'd be inclined to sign him up for a further 2 to let him develop.
Adams: Will most likely ask for a trade West.
Williams: Must re-sign
Dale: Watch his development. Might attract some trade interest.
Webb: Might attract some interest. Rate him highly.
McLean: CANNOT afford to let him remain uncontracted at seasons end. Need to secure him.
Daniel: As above.
Honeychurch: Some work to do to retain his spot.
Roberts: With Adams likely gone by years end he's got an opportunity to prove his worth.
Picken: Would be stunned if he walks but there'll be interest aplenty.
JJ: Priority number 1 is getting him signed up for at least 3 years.
Crameri: Will be interesting to see how he returns. With Cloke at the club now he's more important than ever for our structure.

Its a long list but it ain't as bad as it looks.

Webb and Dale in my mind are key, especially with Hrovat and Stevens now gone. I expect both will play games next year, more than they did this year. red year players that have the tank, and physique to really be good players.

[bulldogtragic]

I think we can find 6 next year to move. Elevating Smith & Lynch. Leaving us 4 picks being our first, second, upgraded third and fifth rounder. And then two rookie draft picks. Which is a healthy turnover. If Adams wants out hopefully we can get something decent in return.

But I'm thinking perhaps next year is the time to pursue another bigger trade. This draft we are investing in height which is good for the longer term. Our inside mids, half backs and forwards look healthy. If Roberts, Cordy & Collins (Adams??) can hold down spots then our taller defenders will be good. So a quick elite ball user would be something I think we need to round off the list. So with salary cap up our sleeves perhaps it's time to go hard at a Josh Kelly type. Our list won the premiership and we've invested a lot for 2-3 years down the track where the bulk of the list will be in their prime. I think we are in the perfect space to trade big next year and see that instant benefit with the last two drafts investments benefit. Dynasty's need continued improvement and with GWS picking up 4 top 20 players & Deledio we need to keep finding ways to improve our list to get and stay ahead of them with both of our windows being open.

[GVGjr]

Now that GWS are entrenched as a finals team for the next few seasons I think it's going to be very difficult for a club like ours to get top end trades with them completed.

Why would they want to potentially strengthen a genuine contender who wouldn't normally have early draft picks to offer anyway?

They trade with Carlton like it's a Caribbean Gardens swap meet but if Carlton were in the 8 and threatening they'd just point their players in another direction especially the players wanting to head back to their home state.

The salary cap squeeze might bite them but I think they have probably got that all planned out.

[bulldogtragic]

Now that GWS are entrenched as a finals team for the next few seasons I think it's going to be very difficult for a club like ours to get top end trades with them completed.

Why would they want to potentially strengthen a genuine contender who wouldn't normally have early draft picks to offer anyway?

They trade with Carlton like it's a Caribbean Gardens swap meet but if Carlton were in the 8 and threatening they'd just point their players in another direction especially the players wanting to head back to their home state.

The salary cap squeeze might bite them but I think they have probably got that all planned out.

I'd have a short list going across the board of similar types. There's big names in free agency but apparently every club has cap space to target them. That'd be ideal to keep our first rounder, but I'm not betting on it happening. But with our draft, I think next year could be the year to go hard at grabbing a quality player to inject into the list as our kids hit their prime and hopefully these young talls are pushing for selection.

[bulldogtragic]

So Bevo has said Roarke is having another turn next year. Unless the AFEL finally get around to scrapping the rookie list and extending the main list, we will need to elevate him. The AFEL said in September the CBA would be signed in a week or two... So I don't trust them to get around to changing the list structures.

So we've got our 1st & 2nd rounders, Norf's third rounder & Saints fifth rounder. Roarke elevated with the Saints fifth rounder if we need to elevate him, freeing up a rookie list spot. Lynch upgraded with the next, freeing up a rookie spot. - 3 live picks or 2 live picks and a trade/free agent with the upgrades/picks, and then two rookie picks. That's a healthy turnover.

So five changes to head out, which should be easy enough. I'm nor sure if Bob & Matty Boyd go around again, and Hamilton & Honeychurch seem up against it based on preseason form. Adams or his manager may request a trade again. That's 5 and assuming someone on the fringe takes an offer ala Hrovat, Hamling & Stevens.

The kicker will be how high we expect Rhylee West to go next year. A recent article cited him as among 'the best of the best in his year'. So the question is how many draft points we may want accumulate this year with any trades for future 2018 drafts picks/points. For instance if we finished with pick 16 and he went 8-10, we'd lose both first and second rounders and gain something around pick 50 as our next pick if we did nothing to gain extra points for 2018. If we finish with pick 17-18 and/or Rhylee goes higher, then it may take all three of our first picks to land him, so our first pick would be in the 60's or 70's.

It throws up a few different scenarios around trading our top picks for players this year, but getting back in 2018 points to cover the expectated points need in 2018. Like our 1st & 2nd rounder for a very decent player and 2018 (expected higher) second rounder. So perhaps that bigger type trade, landing a decent free agent, using North's third rounder, upgrading the two rookies (5). But only one live pick won't sit well with Dal. But, then head into 2018 draft armed with a 1st rounder and two 2nd rounders to cover Rhylee West if we expect him to go early, and get us something later in the draft to use. Then again, do we seek a player if Adams leaves or request a 2018 pick??

It's certainly going to be an interesting period for the club to work out needs, whose gettable at the trade table and free agency, working out and guessing 2018 draft point needs and then factoring in 'needs'. A lot of moving parts.

[choconmientay]

Then again, do we seek a player if Adams leaves or request a 2018 pick??


Just read an article on the HS that Adams is keen to stay on. I think this is good news for our club.

LINK (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/marcus-adams-keen-to-resign-with-western-bulldogs-only-months-after-considering-trade/news-story/d615073f09d60e15d15d9cb518ae28b8)

Marcus Adams keen to re-sign with Western Bulldogs only months after considering trade
JON RALPH, Herald Sun, March 28, 2017 8:00pm

WESTERN Bulldogs defender Marcus Adams is set to win a contract extension only months after considering a future back in Perth.

The forgotten Dogs defender was one of the revelations of 2016 as a 193cm full back before injury saw him miss the fairytale premiership.

He was happy to be traded back to Western Australia if a deal could be done but did not officially demand a new start.

Now after an injury-hit pre-season he is set to be recalled for the premiership replay against Sydney after Dale Morris was diagnosed with a broken leg.

Last year he beat star forwards including Matthew Pavlich, Taylor Walker and Josh Kennedy before succumbing to a foot problem from Round 16 onwards.



http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/04259f0a83087507e9f1498f12256044?width=316
Marcus Adams is a happy Bulldog. Picture: Jake Nowakowski
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/cb92de4b421207bf7a60dd6ea786af1d?width=316
Marcus Adams in action during a pre-season training session. Picture: Wayne Ludbey



His manager Jason Dover said on Tuesday the 23-year-old, taken at pick 35 in the 2015 national draft, was keen to re-sign at the club.

“Over the pre-season he had some challenges with getting back and playing as well as his form so they sent him back to the VFL to find some form which he did on the weekend,’’ he said.

“It was a case of if the opportunity presented during the trade period he was happy to look at it.

“When it didn’t happen he was happy to stay. He didn’t demand a trade.

“Since then he has come back and settled into Melbourne and we have had conversations pre-Christmas and in the new year about a possible contract extension with the club.

“I was in Melbourne last week and met with the Dogs and we will continue our conversations.”

The Dogs will make at least one forced change but continue to have envious depth after a strong VFL performance.
http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/58c351f7bbb68954935bfb4dbd573127?width=650
Marcus Adams is keen to re-sign with the Bulldogs. Picture: Michael Klein

Adams was excellent, with returning ruckman Tom Campbell excellent after recovering from a rolled ankle.

The Dogs could decide to play two ruckman to ease Tom Boyd’s workload, with Josh Dunkley, Clay Smith and Lukas Webb also playing well in the VFL win over Collingwood.

Morris will not require surgery for the spiral fracture but will miss two months, with Josh Pruden back from an ACL in the VFL this week.

Mitch Wallis is back in full training in the next fortnight and will be back in five weeks, with Tory Dickson out with abdominal pain for a month.

The Dogs found a way to win despite Collingwood’s midfield dominance on Friday night, setting up a cracking encounter against the team they beat in the 2016 Grand Final.

[bulldogtragic]

Early Season view:

Dead Certs: 1: Bob (apparently said this is his last year)
Very Concerned about: 3: Matty Boyd, Hamilton, Honeychurch
Concerned on Rookie List: 1: Prudden (Bevo mentioned Smith will be having another crack at this level (AFL)
Concerned for any trade request out: JJ

4 Main List, 1 Rookie List

I'm maintaining the view of 6 changes: Using 3 draft picks (all inside 40-45), A Free Agent, Smith & Lynch upgraded. So two more to look at, perhaps a couple ask for trades like last year.

[boydogs]

Early Season view:

Dead Certs: ---
Concerned about: Matty Boyd, Bob, Hamilton, Honeychurch
Concerned for any trade request out: JJ

Prudden must be in doubt, he should really have been cut putting aside the looking after your own aspect

[bulldogtragic]

Mid Season view:

Dead Certs: (3) Matt Boyd, Bob & Honeychurch
Concerned about: (1) Hamilton
Want to see something: (1) Crameri
Concerned on Rookie List: 1: Prudden (Bevo mentioned Smith will be having another crack at this level (AFL))
Want to see signed up soon: JJ, Adams, Williams, Dale, Webb
Assumed number wanting a trade out: (2) Campbell & other.

Probably: 6 Main List, 1 Rookie List

3 picks inside 40, plus two rookie upgrades & a free agent. Or, two picks traded, one live pick, two rookie upgrades & a free agent.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

From a list perspective, without stating our obvious needs, I want us to go after a legitimate fast, skillful small forward. It's a gaping hole in our list right now and we really lack flair up forward.

Somebody of a Dan Rioli/Orazio Fantasia ilk would be my pick.

Are there many getting around at state or U18 level?

[Ozza]

Mid Season view:

Dead Certs: (3) Matt Boyd, Bob & Honeychurch
Concerned about: (1) Hamilton
Want to see something: (1) Crameri
Concerned on Rookie List: 1: Prudden (Bevo mentioned Smith will be having another crack at this level (AFL))
Want to see signed up soon: JJ, Adams, Williams, Dale, Webb
Assumed number wanting a trade out: (2) Campbell & other.

Probably: 6 Main List, 1 Rookie List

3 picks inside 40, plus two rookie upgrades & a free agent. Or, two picks traded, one live pick, two rookie upgrades & a free agent.

Bob and Honeychurch dead cert's to not be on the list next year?????????????????????

[bulldogtragic]

Bob and Honeychurch dead cert's to not be on the list next year?????????????????????

With Bob, I'm changing my thinking from 'Dead Cert' to 'maybe', from week to week. Bob had previously said this was his last year, but maybe he's changed his mind since. I think Honey will ask for a trade, and I think we'll let him go. Clubs with an interest in him would no doubt have spoken to his management already about how they think they offer him more opportunities at the top level.

[Dry Rot]

One of Webb and Dale may leave too, seeking better opportunities.

Isn't the rookie Smith in his last year of rookie-dom?

[bulldogtragic]

One of Webb and Dale may leave too, seeking better opportunities.

Isn't the rookie Smith in his last year of rookie-dom?

Yep, on Smith, but he's told Bevo he wants to keep going and Bevo wants that too. So we upgrade him, or let him go free in the rookie draft and hope to pick him up. I think we will upgrade him.

If Webby & Dale keep showing good signs, I'd expect the club to try to re-contract them soon. I hope we can re-contract them too.

[bornadog]

My current:

Retire: Bob, MBoyd and Morris

Delist: Honeychurch, Hamilton,

5 in total - haven't thought about Rookies.

[Ozza]

My current:

Retire: Bob, MBoyd and Morris

Delist: Honeychurch, Hamilton,

5 in total - haven't thought about Rookies.

I'd be very very surprised if Morris retired. Another injury, or issues relating to his leg could derail things - but I fully expect him to get one more year after this.

[comrade]

I'd be very very surprised if Morris retired. Another injury, or issues relating to his leg could derail things - but I fully expect him to get one more year after this.

100% agree.

One who I think will either ask for a trade or be forced to find a new home is Tom Campbell.

[bulldogtragic]

100% agree.

One who I think will either ask for a trade or be forced to find a new home is Tom Campbell.

He'd be crazy not to. He needs a coach and match committee with a more traditional view of a ruck role. We will get bugger all, but the spot on the list is worth it if he's going to play out 16 months at Footscray.

[comrade]

He'd be crazy not to. He needs a coach and match committee with a more traditional view of a ruck role. We will get bugger all, but the spot on the list is worth it if he's going to play out 16 months at Footscray.

In hindsight, I would have preferred to give Minson another year as a mentor to English/break glass option, and traded out Campbell when his value was higher. It will be a bargain basement deal if we off load him this year after playing Jong and Dunks ahead of him.

[Doc26]

My current:

Retire: Bob, MBoyd and Morris

Delist: Honeychurch, Hamilton,

5 in total - haven't thought about Rookies.

Matty Boyd would seem a given.

Too early to tell with Moz and will need to assess in the back end but then I'm sure you agree with that anyway.

Bob is also an interesting one. He has appeared to express an interest in playing on whilst he can. Maintaining his speed and elusiveness will be key. I'd be open to keeping him if he ticks these boxes as his form hasn't dropped off and we are still a very young Team particularly with MBoyd moving on.

Declan would also seem to be a given to be moved on and similarly with Mitch H.
I was curious to read though that in another thread you've backed Mitch to come in this week for Clay. Just seems a bit counter-intuitive to do so although I do agree that Clay doesn't fit, with better options available.

[bulldogtragic]

In hindsight, I would have preferred to give Minson another year as a mentor to English/break glass option, and traded out Campbell when his value was higher. It will be a bargain basement deal if we off load him this year after playing Jong and Dunks ahead of him.

Yep. Best case scenario on his value is now a tiny upgrade of the Saints (our) fifth rounder into an ok draft points position. So maybe circa pick 76 into pick 64. That's an extra 100 points worth if we want to package our second & (North) third rounders together, to pursue Brisbane's pick 19.

[bornadog]

Matty Boyd would seem a given.

Too early to tell with Moz and will need to assess in the back end but then I'm sure you agree with that anyway.

Bob is also an interesting one. He has appeared to express an interest in playing on whilst he can. Maintaining his speed and elusiveness will be key. I'd be open to keeping him if he ticks these boxes as his form hasn't dropped off and we are still a very young Team particularly with MBoyd moving on.

Declan would also seem to be a given to be moved on and similarly with Mitch H.
I was curious to read though that in another thread you've backed Mitch to come in this week for Clay. Just seems a bit counter-intuitive to do so although I do agree that Clay doesn't fit, with better options available.

I would like to give Mitch a go and see if he is up to it. He has played some good games at VFL level, so reward for effort

[Ozza]

On form, it would be difficult to give Dec Hamilton a game - but we have stuck with him for a few years, and would be a shame if he never got at least one chance at AFL level to see how his game stacks up there.

[Bulldog4life]

On form, it would be difficult to give Dec Hamilton a game - but we have stuck with him for a few years, and would be a shame if he never got at least one chance at AFL level to see how his game stacks up there.

I hope we give Declan at least one game. He has shown glimpses and might be that type of player who improves with better players around him.

[G-Mo77]

On form, it would be difficult to give Dec Hamilton a game - but we have stuck with him for a few years, and would be a shame if he never got at least one chance at AFL level to see how his game stacks up there.

I've never really saw much in him up until 2017. What I have seen of him at VFL level has been good. He'll get a few games in 2017

[GVGjr]

From a list perspective, without stating our obvious needs, I want us to go after a legitimate fast, skillful small forward. It's a gaping hole in our list right now and we really lack flair up forward.

Somebody of a Dan Rioli/Orazio Fantasia ilk would be my pick.

Are there many getting around at state or U18 level?

I think we tried to trade up to grab Ben Long last year but the Saints pipped us. I'd say this could be a priority again for us this year

[Remi Moses]

I'm hoping we're looking at Stephen May or Jake Lever
Thoughts?

[bornadog]

I'm hoping we're looking at Stephen May or Jake Lever
Thoughts?

I would love May.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm hoping we're looking at Stephen May or Jake Lever
Thoughts?

Everyone will be looking at May.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Everyone will be looking at May.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-23/sun-not-hesitant-but-has-a-lot-to-weigh-up

Yeah everyone will. But you would have to think that we'd be pressing very hard considering we were so close to getting Hurley last year.

[EasternWest]

I'm hoping we're looking at Stephen May or Jake Lever
Thoughts?

Where do I sign?

[bulldogtragic]

I don't want to be seen to be stealing another clubs captain (May), but it's about time it happened we were on the right side of a captain seeking a trade, so I'm happy if he nominates us next week.

Gold Coast players must be honestly thinking, maybe this franchise isn't going to make it. GWS is light years ahead and other GC franchises have folded. If I were May, I'd leave no matter what. He's given great, loyal service to them while they've gone nowhere, will go nowhere and have had kids and guns wanting out and still wanting out.

The earlier rumour this year was the Dogs wanting Ablett. If true that we want them both, happy to do a package deal.

[EasternWest]

I don't want to be seen to be stealing another clubs captain (May), but it's about time it happened we were on the right side of a captain seeking a trade, so I'm happy if he nominates us next week.

Gold Coast players must be honestly thinking, maybe this franchise isn't going to make it. GWS is light years ahead and other GC franchises have folded. If I were May, I'd leave no matter what. He's given great, loyal service to them while they've gone nowhere, will go nowhere and have had kids and guns wanting out and still wanting out.

The earlier rumour this year was the Dogs wanting Ablett. If true that we want them both, happy to do a package deal.

I really don't care about other clubs feelings.

[Hotdog60]

Wasn't the rookie draft going at some stage?
Or has that idea gone off the books.

[boydogs]

Wasn't the rookie draft going at some stage?
Or has that idea gone off the books.

Yeah maybe, why?

[bulldogtragic]

My Half Season card:

Retired: Boyd & Bob. I'm worried about injuries to both club legends.
Delisted or Trade Requests: Honeychurch (just behind too many similar players, too good for the VFL too), Hamilton (Not seen enough of him excelling), Campbell (Needs a new home)
Rookies out: Prudden (poor kid just can't take a trick with injury).

5 spots on the main list opened up. Although we can't rule out another fringe player being chased, or a good player with an offer too good to refuse. So perhaps 6 changes. From there I'd look for trades for picks and free agency for 3 spots, 1 live pick, 2 rookie upgrades, with 3 rookie list spots. Top up on mature experienced talent through trades/free agency to replace what experience we lose, get a mid range 'Dal Special', elevate the two half back flankers to cover the depth for the two were losing and let Dal go nuts at the rookie draft.

Dal has said the depth at this draft is an issue, so perhaps move our top 3 picks around to get a couple of decent players and free agency for another. I'm not sure we need extra kids, so mature experienced players could really help consolidate our claim to a dynasty.

[macca]

GWS dont care and we should be doing the same in further our list for what is best for our club

I hate them for pinching ward, may have been a future captain for us

Stole our captain
Was Deledio a vice captain for Richmond at any stage ?

The karma bus has hit them with injures for the last 2.

[jeemak]

If the draft is shallow then a strategy to get one good pick, whilst sitting the majority out would be the way to go.

Hamilton is unlikely to be picked up elsewhere. We've given him a crack to mature in the lower grade but he's too far behind the level. Honey needs to be given a chance out of fairness and integrity to the process in coming games, but in reality we'll only keep him on a minimum contract or get a low pick for him if he departs unless something special transpires (we're getting a low pick or an upgrade for him, let's be honest - at least it's like for like, irrespective of development, unlike Hrovat).

Campbell if not good enough for us as top level, isn't going to be good enough elsewhere as top level. We're getting done in the ruck pretty much week on week, and we're not even playing him to counter that. I don't see how anyone could offer him a back up deal better than the one we are. At least if things go really really bad list wise for us, he's a chance to be a finals ruckman. He won't get that at ten out of eighteen clubs.

If Murphy and Moyd retire, that's four spots off the list that need to be covered. Like BT I'd like one of them to be sourced via FA so we don't have to give anything up to get it.

If things go well, we're looking at pick 15 to 18 as our first pick range, in a shallow draft, with basically no upside in what we're losing from the main list to advance our cause unless a trade comes through.

As a non-betting man I say we keep JJ on an extension of two years at best, at worst we lose him to trade west. I think the latter is more realistic.

If we can walk away from this next drafting and trade period with Fremantle's first and a player - or WCE's first and two of second/player/upgrade for JJ, and a pick between 15-18 as our next selection then I'm OK.

So, I guess what I'm suggesting is:

Out - JJ, Honeychurch, Hamilton, Moyd, Murphy
In - FRE first pick - plus a player or WCE first pick plus two of upgrade/player/second round.........token points or picks we wont use for Honey/Hamilton

I really want to use our money on securing who we have on our list presently because they're coming into their next contract cycle, and think we're about to lose some class that underpins a good list that is better drafted than traded in.

[bulldogtragic]

Good post J-Man.

Thinking about if JJ left, that would free up $550,000. And assuming our banked cap facilitated the $800,000 offer for Hurley (Dal dais we still have heaps of room), that would mean we had $1,350,000. If Bob & Boyd are retired, say they're on $375,000 each, that's another $750,000 added to $1,350,000 so $2,100,000 plus another $750,000 if Campbell, Honey & Declan go. If Crameri has to take a hit from what was a generous offer, add $200,000. So that's $3,050,000 plus CBA increases, so maybe $3,550,000.

Now we add in 3 draftees (inclusive of draftees and rookie list upgrades) on minimum wage, say $600,000. A little extra for players not yet signed, say $250,000 and money expected from changes, say $350,000. So we will spend $1,200,000, or take this figure off the salary cap pot. Put in $600,000 (Morris, Cloke possibly retired next year to add in more) also for re-signings next year. So $1,800,000.

That leaves us around $1,750,000 to spend in the salary cap. So if there's 6 changes, of which three are draftees, we have three spots on the list to fill with around $1,750,000. If JJ goes we can target probably two or three very good players. If we have the picks after Dal thinks it's not worth it, then I'd put all the picks on the table with our cap room and look at a defender (May, Trensgrove/McKenzie FA), a midfielder (Duggan, Crozier, Rockliff FA) and forward (Gunston, Schache).

If we were to lose the experience of Boyd, Bob & JJ I think it'd be handy to bring in some mature players over another round of kids.

[azabob]

BT if JJ leaves I think he is most likely headed for Essendon. What is your trade plan / scenario for dealing with Essendon ?

[bulldogtragic]

BT if JJ leaves I think he is most likely headed for Essendon. What is your trade plan / scenario for dealing with Essendon ?

McKernan & a 6th rounder!

A three way trade ideally.
If they ended up with pick 6 or 7 and 24 or 25, perhaps an upgrade if we finish 16-18. So something like 6<16 & 24<34. They've had interest in Campbell, so they can him. It's not dissimilar to the Carlisle trade to St Kilda.

Then put up 6, 24 & 42 with HC on the trade table. Then looking to get three mature players, one being a free agent as above. Perhaps looking for a group trade by going to GCS and requesting May & a midfielder/running HBF (Ablett rumours with us have gone quiet). Or Brisbane with Schache, McStay &/or Cedric Cox (who we were very keen on last year) or them also letting Rockliff go as a FA to us. Then needing a FA defender like McKenzie or Trengrove. Alternatively, go to Hawthorn who are desperate to get back into the draft and see what 6 & 24 might net us.

I still think JJ stays though.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I would be pretty filthy on JJ if he leaves and very demanding on the trade table if it came to that. Reality is he's a 24 yo star in his prime.

[1eyedog]

I'm hoping we're looking at Stephen May or Jake Lever
Thoughts?

Like Lever. Tall, athletic, old skool and an absolute mongrel. Would be awesome for us, plus he's a Vic boy.

[Topdog]

BT if JJ leaves I think he is most likely headed for Essendon. What is your trade plan / scenario for dealing with Essendon ?

Why Essendon?

[Remi Moses]

Mark Stevens reckons May is staying, it's going to get interesting

[jeemak]

I would be pretty filthy on JJ if he leaves and very demanding on the trade table if it came to that. Reality is he's a 24 yo star in his prime.

Can you be overly demanding at the trade table anymore? It's all well and good to say we'll play hardball, but if he nominates a club he's going to that club and we will end up taking what we can get for him.........or pay him what he wants to stay.

A single digit first rounder and a second rounder is probably his value, do you think we will have to work too hard to get that?

[GVGjr]

Why Essendon?

I believe there is a feeling that Essendon are the most interested in him and probably because for some unknown reason they seem to have a lot of room in their cap.

[kruder]

I would be pretty filthy on JJ if he leaves and very demanding on the trade table if it came to that. Reality is he's a 24 yo star in his prime.

Agree sign him for 4 years now and let him go after that these are the years you want him on your list

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Can you be overly demanding at the trade table anymore? It's all well and good to say we'll play hardball, but if he nominates a club he's going to that club and we will end up taking what we can get for him.........or pay him what he wants to stay.

A single digit first rounder and a second rounder is probably his value, do you think we will have to work too hard to get that?

Hard but fair - that's the line I'd be taking.

If he was 27 it'd be different, but he's 24 and has played some sensational football over the last 24 months. He's only just entering his prime now.

I'd be looking at a single digit draft pick + a good player.

[bulldogtragic]

Hard but fair - that's the line I'd be taking.

If he was 27 it'd be different, but he's 24 and has played some sensational football over the last 24 months. He's only just entering his prime now.

I'd be looking at a single digit draft pick + a good player.

If he's walking, I'd prefer Freo as a destination and work in with draft picks (they'd have 6, 7, 24 - us 16-18, 34-36 & 42), Fyfe (FA) and another player. We'd have the salary cap then piss easy for Fyfe, we'd need some more dash too. Might open up a big opportunity for us, especially throwing whatever picks around for a May/Mckenzie/Trengove/Schache/Gunston/Rockliff etc, etc, etc.

We'd then want to expose Williams & Lynch to as much footy as possible and maybe throwing Webb back there to see if he takes a spot again down there. Losing potentially JJ, Bob, Boyd & Prudden opens up the flanks big time.

[The Pie Man]

If he's walking, I'd prefer Freo as a destination and work in with draft picks (they'd have 6, 7, 24 - us 16-18, 34-36 & 42), Fyfe (FA) and another player. We'd have the salary cap then piss easy for Fyfe, we'd need some more dash too. Might open up a big opportunity for us, especially throwing whatever picks around for a May/Mckenzie/Trengove/Schache/Gunston/Rockliff etc, etc, etc.

We'd then want to expose Williams & Lynch to as much footy as possible and maybe throwing Webb back there to see if he takes a spot again down there. Losing potentially JJ, Bob, Boyd & Prudden opens up the flanks big time.

Lynch is the one - in a remarkably similar spot to JJ a few years ago (pacey rookie decent on both sides of the body)

Untried? Of course, but so was JJ - a real shame he's been injured (coming back this week?) as it'd be worthwhile exposing him to senior footy and seeing what he could do. Pace of our HB line is something we just can't lose

[bulldogtragic]

Lynch is the one - in a remarkably similar spot to JJ a few years ago (pacey rookie decent on both sides of the body)

Untried? Of course, but so was JJ - a real shame he's been injured (coming back this week?) as it'd be worthwhile exposing him to senior footy and seeing what he could do. Pace of our HB line is something we just can't lose

Ditto. I'd say I've seen only about 8-10 games of Lynch, but I'm excited to see if he can keep his upward curve going because if JJ or his manager want a different deal, then Lynch is arguably the closest thing we have. So let's see him soon if his form is good.

[1eyedog]

Ditto. I'd say I've seen only about 8-10 games of Lynch, but I'm excited to see if he can keep his upward curve going because if JJ or his manager want a different deal, then Lynch is arguably the closest thing we have. So let's see him soon if his form is good.

I like Lynch's pace and evasive skills. He is just a cut above getting around / through people in congestion. High hopes.

[Go_Dogs]

I believe there is a feeling that Essendon are the most interested in him and probably because for some unknown reason they seem to have a lot of room in their cap.

Maybe as part of the deal we can take their staff who work out the TPP.

[bulldogtragic]

A question...

Do the games of Campbell & Honeychurch show that (a) we need to play/keep them, or (b) improve their trade value?

I will tip myself in. When Jarrad Grant had an OK end to 2013 I think it was, Brisbane were rumoured to be into him while Docherty was looking to Victoria. I said we shouldn't do that trade on the basis a few good games were showing 'an upward trend'.

Honeychurch is without contract, and Campbell might be thinking he can get more games elsewhere despite a contract for next year. So do we see either player as showing a trend to being an important player next year, or as perhaps just having a little more currency?

[jeemak]

Too early on each for mine.

HC in particular had too many road blocks prior to the season, but in my view there's significant water to go under the bridge in terms of who on our list we want to keep from the more established group and he's all of a sudden in play for another deal.

[boydogs]

They're the type that are good depth for now but could easily miss a new contract as we look for kids who may be better than depth at their peak

[Bulldog Joe]

The issue for Honeychurch, is that we are required to make space and good depth players (eg Hrovat) are sacrificed for the space.

[Mofra]

The issue for Honeychurch, is that we are required to make space and good depth players (eg Hrovat) are sacrificed for the space.
Hamilton, M Boyd and B Murphy off the list at the end of the year to start with, if we trade 1-2 players as well there would be space for Honeychurch.
I'm disappointed in his finishing but he gets to the right spots and applies defensive pressure.

[bornadog]

Hamilton, M Boyd and B Murphy off the list at the end of the year to start with, if we trade 1-2 players as well there would be space for Honeychurch.
I'm disappointed in his finishing but he gets to the right spots and applies defensive pressure.

I love Morris, but time is also catching up to him.

[ledge]

They threw Boyd on the ball in the VFL Saturday and he was everywhere !
Forgot he was a mid so quickly I'm ashamed , after that I would say he will come in this week , here's a thought , we are struggling in the midfield , Jong out , Libba no good at all , would it hurt to put him back in the centre few times this week ?

[bulldogtragic]

I love Morris, but time is also catching up to him.

I think 'if' we get a May or Lever that might makes things a lot closer for the club. May/Lever, Adams, Fletch & Cordy with Collins improving and Young developing and Roughy seemingly used to pinch hit.

[westdog54]

They threw Boyd on the ball in the VFL Saturday and he was everywhere !
Forgot he was a mid so quickly I'm ashamed , after that I would say he will come in this week , here's a thought , we are struggling in the midfield , Jong out , Libba no good at all , would it hurt to put him back in the centre few times this week ?

As much as I love Boydy, I hope not.

He's still a great player and leader, but the step up in the pace of the game from VFL to AFL, particularly in the midfield, is immense.

[Topdog]

and his kicking ability is more exposed in the midfield

[S Coast Simon]

The midfield is a tough business. It's bang crash in hard all day. This is why Danger and many others do it well they are hard as nails. Our first three mids are Libba,Bont and Macrae. They do well our boys but are getting a hard time for not winning the contested footy. We need blokes like Boyd to have a run through there just to hit in hard a few times. Let the opposition know we are here to play. Next time someone wants to bump and bash into JJ or anyone else send Boyd to tag them for five minutes and see how tough the really are. Our team unfortunately is being bullied at the moment and other teams know this. Boyd and Cordy need to be in the team. We play finals footy, as we all know the game changes to a hard slog in finals. Remember when you played, everyone stood taller when your toughest player was in the team. It's the same game but at a greater level. Boyd you want to get to 300 games. Go out there and hurt some opposition players. Not illegally. But hit those tackles and bumps hard.

[ledge]

As much as I love Boydy, I hope not.

He's still a great player and leader, but the step up in the pace of the game from VFL to AFL, particularly in the midfield, is immense.
Not like he doesn't know it !
Problem is playing in the backline he is either chasing another player to the ball or running off.
He still knows how to get the ball even if it's just for a few minutes a qtr let him loose, VFL or AFL he can still read where the ball is
And get it . His kicking isn't a problem if he is in under handballing out.

[ledge]

Oh and his leadership telling players what's doing really stood out as well Saturday afternoon.
Libba doesn't do that and is hardly getting a touch at the moment.
Seriously we aren't getting near the ball in the centre at a qtr a game at least. Throw him in I say see what happens and surprise the opposition they won't be expecting it . Won't die wondering with Boyd that's for sure.

[Dry Rot]

FWIW BF guy with good sources says the Bombers are into Webb and the Tigers have offered Redpath 2 years on good money.

[Remi Moses]

I can see Richmond looking at 2nd forward options, and interest in Webb .
That BF bloke reckons stkilda and Norf are throwing significant contracts Lever's way .

[Remi Moses]

Oh and his leadership telling players what's doing really stood out as well Saturday afternoon.
Libba doesn't do that and is hardly getting a touch at the moment.
Seriously we aren't getting near the ball in the centre at a qtr a game at least. Throw him in I say see what happens and surprise the opposition they won't be expecting it . Won't die wondering with Boyd that's for sure.

He's just to slow to be honest .

[ledge]

FWIW BF guy with good sources says the Bombers are into Webb and the Tigers have offered Redpath 2 years on good money.

Just remember we lose a few in retirement next year and Webb will Fit right in with us I imagine.
Redpath is interesting with his knees , hate to see him go but maybe we only gave him a year to see how he went when he came back and will offer him better if he goes ok , personally I think we will keep both if big red gets through this year.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Jeez don't north and the saints look desperate. Throwing coin around hoping it'll stick somewhere. Does this indicate Kelly is joining the dog-i mean staying.

[bornadog]

FWIW BF guy with good sources says the Bombers are into Webb and the Tigers have offered Redpath 2 years on good money.

BF discussion should stay on BF. ;)

[Dry Rot]

BF discussion should stay on BF. ;)

That guy along with one or two others has good sources. Works for the swans.

[bulldogtragic]

If true, then we are going to have a big trade and free agency period. If JJ, Bob, Boyd & Prudden are moved on, Webb should be offered a HBF spot with a contract. I'd be surprised if Redders goes, it's not like there's much competition for spots compared to other positions.

We have the salary cap to be offering the same deals North & Saints are throwing at everyone. Pretty sure I got an email from North for 5 years at $800,000. That we are generally silent makes me wonder that we've got someone on the hook. A guess, Josh Kelly's name seems quieter. 2+2=5 though.

[Twodogs]

Yeah they've gone very quiet about Josh Kelly.

[GVGjr]

I don't for one minute accept this notion but if you believe some of the conjecture on here and in the media that we pinched the flag last year and that we are in a premiership hangover Hawks style then why wouldn't we go for a full reboot at the end of the season so that we position ourselves well for a serious push in 2019/20?

This could mean not offering contracts to Murphy, Morris, M.Boyd, Redpath and Crameri, letting go of Cloke, not budging on our position with Johannisen and potentially making the hard calls on some of the likes of Honeychurch, Prudden, Hamilton, R.Smith and maybe Webb?

That harsh slash and burn approach would open up plenty of spots for us to bring in young talent and create senior spots for players like Dale and Williams and also deliver a very strong message for anyone with a complacent attitude that the club can make hard calls.

We would certainly take a hit on our ladder position in 2018 and maybe 2019 but it would open up spots and create a very attractive salary cap position for many years.

This isn't what I would do and it's certainly not what I expect the club to do but would there be any advantage in taking this sort of approach to reload for another push?

[azabob]

Just remember we lose a few in retirement next year and Webb will Fit right in with us I imagine.
Redpath is interesting with his knees , hate to see him go but maybe we only gave him a year to see how he went when he came back and will offer him better if he goes ok , personally I think we will keep both if big red gets through this year.

Who do you see Webb replacing? I don't see it personally.

[Remi Moses]

BF discussion should stay on BF. ;)

There's a few on there on the money .

[bulldogtragic]

Who do you see Webb replacing? I don't see it personally.

I'd like him going into the Moyd role. Sure they can both have a run in the middle, but they've shown most promise coming off the HBF and with that extra second or two using good foot skills. Webb can play alright, and I get the flexibility thing, but he has a beautiful left foot and I'd be very comfortable to see him coming out of defence, leaning on his left foot to hit targets. If Prudden, Moyd, Bob & JJ all leave then we have some latitude to allow Webby to go back to that role and know we can try other things during games. We don't have a lot of very good kicks and I'd be annoyed if we let one go without a fight.

[azabob]

Thanks for that BT. I find it odd that both Williams and Webb haven't played during Boyd and Murphys absence. I think that suggests Webb will be elsewhere in 2018.

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks for that BT. I find it odd that both Williams and Webb haven't played during Boyd and Murphys absence. I think that suggests Webb will be elsewhere in 2018.

If that eventuated then I'd suggest that's the folly with 'just keep drafting kids' philosophy. Hrovat a first rounder leaves for SFA, and if Webb left that be a good second rounder for even less than SFA. At some point we have got to invest some very good picks into mature talent. I really rate Webb and think he'd be an excellent HBF option, so I hope he stays.

[bornadog]

There's a few on there on the money .

That is fine, but this is WOOF not BF.

[westdog54]

Just remember we lose a few in retirement next year and Webb will Fit right in with us I imagine.
Redpath is interesting with his knees , hate to see him go but maybe we only gave him a year to see how he went when he came back and will offer him better if he goes ok , personally I think we will keep both if big red gets through this year.

I wouldn't lose sleep if Webb left for greener pastures and we managed to get a fair deal in return.

Redpath is on a one year contract because he only asks the club for one year contracts and works year to year. That is how he has always done his contracts. He's spoken about it in the media previously.

I dare say if the Tigers have offered him two years, he's turned around and said 'Sorry, I only do one year deals'.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't for one minute accept this notion but if you believe some of the conjecture on here and in the media that we pinched the flag last year and that we are in a premiership hangover Hawks style then why wouldn't we go for a full reboot at the end of the season so that we position ourselves well for a serious push in 2019/20?

This could mean not offering contracts to Murphy, Morris, M.Boyd, Redpath and Crameri, letting go of Cloke, not budging on our position with Johannisen and potentially making the hard calls on some of the likes of Honeychurch, Prudden, Hamilton, R.Smith and maybe Webb?

That harsh slash and burn approach would open up plenty of spots for us to bring in young talent and create senior spots for players like Dale and Williams and also deliver a very strong message for anyone with a complacent attitude that the club can make hard calls.

We would certainly take a hit on our ladder position in 2018 and maybe 2019 but it would open up spots and create a very attractive salary cap position for many years.

This isn't what I would do and it's certainly not what I expect the club to do but would there be any advantage in taking this sort of approach to reload for another push?

I would do something like it. But trade really aggressively now it appears we have good trade currency.

Outs: Bob, Boyd, Morris, Honey, Campbell, Hamilton, Crameri (to RL for Prudden) & JJ traded

Two top picks, other picks and sweeteners, and a heap of salary cap:

Ins: top tier free agent midfielder, middle top tier KPD, midfielder top tier trade, KPD top tier trade (upgrade Smith & Lynch), two live draft picks

[always right]

I don't want to see tweaking with our list....it's not as good as we thought and we are going to lose three champions at the end of the year.

After developing Webb, I don't want to let him go and I think we will receive buggerall in return anyway. Has Dale re-signed yet? He has become important as we can see from today that when JJ is quiet we have no-one other than Dale who can break the lines.

Retire Boyd, Murph and Morris, delist Honey, Pruden, Hamilton, trade Dickson and Suckling.

[lemmon]

Trade Dickson? He's had an average year (who hasn't) off no pre-season but he's still in our best 3 forwards.

[always right]

Trade Dickson? He's had an average year (who hasn't) off no pre-season but he's still in our best 3 forwards.

We keep referring to blokes based on what they did last year. Reckon it's time we updated our thinking based on what we are seeing. Dickson ain't going to get much better so why not trade him if we think he still has value.....you obviously do.

[Twodogs]

He's the only one who can kick straight.

[Mantis]

He's the only one who can kick straight.

He needs to get it first.

[Twodogs]

He needs to get it first.

It's a good point you make. Maybe he's trying to preserve his high goal kicking percentage by never having another shot at goal?

[GVGjr]

If we think the hangover is a genuine reason for our current plight and if we aren't confident we can get the players hungry for another tilt at the flag for 2018 then I don't think we should be making a huge effort to snare a big name unless that player is wanting to come to us for the right reasons not just because we bid the most for their services.
I'd rather chase some lower key names like we did with Hamling and go through the draft process again. By the way, I think Kelly to the Saints is a very likely outcome.

We need to shake some things up via list management changes because I'm not sure our coaching philosophy will be effective enough in getting the players refocused. A clean out via delisting some players though might just be the tonic

If JJ is to leave then our aim should be to acquire 3 draft picks in the top 30 but I'm not sure we will do much better than a late first round pick for JJ assuming Freo is his preferred destination. We might even have to consider trading a bigger name player to further strengthen our position at the draft table.

I'd be looking at 7 to 8 changes from the primary list and a couple off the rookie list.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

This off season will be interesting.

I sincerely hope the club doesn't adopt a '2017 was an aberration' philosophy. We need to cut deep into the list and put an absolute premium on kids/players who can make good decisions and use it well.

Morris, Murph, Boyd, Prudden, Hamilton, Honeychurch retired/delisted.

Trade JJ (seems a given).

I'd bet on Webb being traded too given we refuse to play him - should be half back IMO.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We might even have to consider trading a bigger name player to further strengthen our position at the trade table.

I don't disagree - who would you consider?

Kelly would be nice but agree we probably need to just go back to the draft and find some cheaper hidden gems.

[Twodogs]

It's a good time to hit the draft given we have Dal so we are very well armed to take a good shot.


They say it's not a very good draft but it seems like they say that most years,

[China Dog]

The way JJ is playing we will be lucky if we get a first round pick for him. Stringer looks like he has no interest in being at the club, maybe he should be the big name traded.

[GVGjr]

This off season will be interesting.

I sincerely hope the club doesn't adopt a '2017 was an aberration' philosophy. We need to cut deep into the list and put an absolute premium on kids/players who can make good decisions and use it well.

Morris, Murph, Boyd, Prudden, Hamilton, Honeychurch retired/delisted.

Trade JJ (seems a given).

I'd bet on Webb being traded too given we refuse to play him - should be half back IMO.

I tend to agree but my view is that we also didn't cut deep enough for the right players and lost a bit of midfield experience without adding back. That has come to bite us.

Prior to the trade and draft period we rated our list highly because we had won both the AFL and VFL flags but we lost Hamling, Hrovat and Stevens via trades, delisted Minson and we had a question mark on Adams. We also weren't certain when Redpath and Wallis would return. This left us with a much shallower list to start the season with. On the plus side we added Cloke and we had high hopes Crameri would be cherry ripe which was a more than reasonable assumption.
We drafted some good players but none of them would have been regarded as ready made types that would have strengthened the senior side in 2017.
Overall though with our playing list we started 2017 in a weaker position than we ended 2016 with which coupled with injuries left us constantly hoping the injured players would return to give us a lift just about every week.

At the end of this year we need to make a critical assessment on if we are confident we have the right players that can turn it around quickly or if we need to take a slightly longer term view and that is what should shape our approach.

There are some obvious delistings but if we don't think there is a quick bounce then we need to be prepared to push it a bit further.

I wonder how we rate this years draft which will also be another critical assessment to make?

[GVGjr]

I don't disagree - who would you consider?

Kelly would be nice but agree we probably need to just go back to the draft and find some cheaper hidden gems.

I don't really have a player in mind but I would expect the club to be open to offers if we believe players don't have the hunger to go hard at it again. It's a delicate position because you wouldn't want it to be like what happened with Hawthorn.

[bornadog]

This off season will be interesting.

I sincerely hope the club doesn't adopt a '2017 was an aberration' philosophy. We need to cut deep into the list and put an absolute premium on kids/players who can make good decisions and use it well.

Morris, Murph, Boyd, Prudden, Hamilton, Honeychurch retired/delisted.

Trade JJ (seems a given).

I'd bet on Webb being traded too given we refuse to play him - should be half back IMO.


This is what I would do as well, however, that is only 5 from the senior list (Prudden a rookie). My gut is that JJ will stay, and Webb will be asking for a transfer.

[bulldogtragic]

This is what I would do as well, however, that is only 5 from the senior list (Prudden a rookie). My gut is that JJ will stay, and Webb will be asking for a transfer.

I think Campbell might ask for a trade too. I think he will get it.

[Go_Dogs]

As of right now, I'd make the following changes:-

Murphy, Boyd, Morris, Cloke, Prudden, Hamilton to retire or be delisted.

JJ potential to leave.

Consider trades for Honeychurch, Webb (HC could be a potential drop to the RL or delist if no trade as I don't mind him for depth, and Webb I'd prefer to keep but in sticking with the rumours in this thread have included him...).

Looks like we may end up with a top 10 pick and have some salary for a FA splash, along with something in the vicinity of 6-8 senior list changes. That's a significant change but won't disrupt the core of the playing group too much and should allow us to reset with a couple of quality inclusions.

[azabob]

I think Campbell might ask for a trade too. I think he will get it.

That all depends if he stays our number one ruck for the remainder of the season.

[bulldogtragic]

As of right now, I'd make the following changes:-

Murphy, Boyd, Morris, Cloke, Prudden, Hamilton to retire or be delisted.

JJ potential to leave.

Consider trades for Honeychurch, Webb (HC could be a potential drop to the RL or delist if no trade as I don't mind him for depth, and Webb I'd prefer to keep but in sticking with the rumours in this thread have included him...).

Looks like we may end up with a top 10 pick and have some salary for a FA splash, along with something in the vicinity of 6-8 senior list changes. That's a significant change but won't disrupt the core of the playing group too much and should allow us to reset with a couple of quality inclusions.

Didn't Cloke sign on for 2 years?

[Twodogs]

I tend to agree but my view is that we also didn't cut deep enough for the right players and lost a bit of midfield experience without adding back. That has come to bite us.

Prior to the trade and draft period we rated our list highly because we had won both the AFL and VFL flags but we lost Hamling, Hrovat and Stevens via trades, delisted Minson and we had a question mark on Adams. We also weren't certain when Redpath and Wallis would return. This left us with a much shallower list to start the season with. On the plus side we added Cloke and we had high hopes Crameri would be cherry ripe which was a more than reasonable assumption.
We drafted some good players but none of them would have been regarded as ready made types that would have strengthened the senior side in 2017.
Overall though with our playing list we started 2017 in a weaker position than we ended 2016 with which coupled with injuries left us constantly hoping the injured players would return to give us a lift just about every week.

At the end of this year we need to make a critical assessment on if we are confident we have the right players that can turn it around quickly or if we need to take a slightly longer term view and that is what should shape our approach.

There are some obvious delistings but if we don't think there is a quick bounce then we need to be prepared to push it a bit further.

I wonder how we rate this years draft which will also be another critical assessment to make?

Do you think we might have gambled that at least one of the draftees would come into the senior side this year? Last year we had Dunkley and the year before we had Daniel walk into the side and Cordy has played some good games. Maybe they were banking on the development to get another first year draftee taking a spot in the team?

[GVGjr]

Do you think we might have gambled that at least one of the draftees would come into the senior side this year? Last year we had Dunkley and the year before we had Daniel walk into the side and Cordy has played some good games. Maybe they were banking on the development to get another first year draftee taking a spot in the team?

No I don't think so, English, Lipinski, Young and Greene were physically immature so I don't think we expected that we had a ready made 10 to 15 game player for 2017 out of that group. I think we knew we were drafting with a longer horizon in mind.
I remember Cordy speaking so it was good to have so many other skinny kids at the club which would also include Mullenger-McHugh.

2017 was always a development year for our 2016 draftees

[Ozza]

Didn't Cloke sign on for 2 years?

Yes, he has a 2 year contract.

List management-wise, how about we keep Bevo out of it! No more players he used to coach.

Cloke's health issues aside, his recruitment, predictably enough, has been an error if you look at the output when playing. We shouldn't have expected to get a better output from a 30 year old, than his below par output in his previous 2 seasons.

As for Suckling, he's been up and down - and has one more year, but I'm predicting that next year we are not rapt that we have him for another year also. Continues to be underwhelming.

[soupman]

I don't have any inside word on this, but is there a chance we look to trade Libba at the end of the season?

Father son and premiership hero status aside, there are a few potential benefits:
-One of the few players on our list who's current output does not match his trade value
-The only player we know has a poor attitude, an attitude that may have seen us not draft him had he not already been aligned to us
-The emergence of Mclean as a clearance player makes Libba less valuable in our squad
-Would alleviate cap pressure

I do like Libba and think he is a very good player, but this season has been very poor and if he follows it up with another just like it then we have a mediocre player who's value has fully declined. You have to give up something to get something and if we are chasing lever then we need to find something tradeable.

Libba I would imagine comes with a similar reputation and value to Tom Mitchell, so a mid-late teens pick is feasible. Also using the Lever trade as an example they are likely to target at least one of our young SA's, so losing Libba could help us retain the likes of Young, Williams and Daniel.

If you take into account that I'm not sure Beveridge is overly impressed or enamoured with Libba's off field work, it could be a good way of cashing in his worth while it still exists.

[GVGjr]

Soupaman, to me it all depends on Liberatore but it's a very interesting option you have raised

- We know what he is capable of in a positive sense and he has a great reputation for hard work on the training track and he has some elite traits
- We also know that he is a larrikin, he has had some issues off the field and hasn't had a good season compared to other years.

The questions I have for him (and basically anyone else) would be around if his heart is in it, if we wants to work towards another flag and I'd love to know if he has been carrying an injury?

If his hearts in it then it would be very hard to trade him because of his elite traits so without a lot of knowledge it would be a no for me.

Just to do a bit of myth busting, we rated him very highly the year he came to us via a father son selection and we may have even rated him a better prospect than Wallis that year.

Libba has frustrated me no end this year and I think there is a frank discussion that needs to be held with him but I'm reasonably confident he will answer any challenge.

I think Libba needs us as much as we need him

[boydogs]

I think we're trying to get Libba to do more around the ground, like we did with Minson, rather than just going from stoppage to stoppage. Ultimately though I think we will move him back onto the ball when we need to. His output seems to be as much to do with the way he is used, as it is with his form

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Libba's TOG % would indicate he's either a) carrying an injury and/or b) not as fit as he was.

As per the above, if his heart is in it, then I wouldn't trade him.

He's also pretty close with a number of the playing group, so I'm not sure it would be well looked upon if we were to move him on.

[Remi Moses]

Tom needs to get fair dinkum about his footy . Hopefully he delists himself from the Vietnam swans ,and knuckles down with a massive pre-season . If he doesn't get serious he will be on the tools for a living

[Sedat]

It's all up to Lib. If he is invested and passionate about his footy he is a must-keep. Comfortably the 2nd best player in our team at his best and frankly not far behind the Bont.

He and the club have a chance even this year to turn things around and achieve something remarkable. The wheel is turning and I can feel it. There's a whole lot of meh in the top 8 right now and we have them all covered based on our September 2016 form. Libba has looked the absolute best in the eye like Josh Kennedy and pantsed them - he (and we) can do it again in 2017.

[Twodogs]

It's all up to Lib. If he is invested and passionate about his footy he is a must-keep. Comfortably the 2nd best player in our team at his best and frankly not far behind the Bont.

He and the club have a chance even this year to turn things around and achieve something remarkable. The wheel is turning and I can feel it. There's a whole lot of meh in the top 8 right now and we have them all covered based on our September 2016 form. Libba has looked the absolute best in the eye like Josh Kennedy and pantsed them - he (and we) can do it again in 2017.

Well said Sedat. I hate giving up. It offends me.

[Bulldog Joe]

It's all up to Lib. If he is invested and passionate about his footy he is a must-keep. Comfortably the 2nd best player in our team at his best and frankly not far behind the Bont.

He and the club have a chance even this year to turn things around and achieve something remarkable. The wheel is turning and I can feel it. There's a whole lot of meh in the top 8 right now and we have them all covered based on our September 2016 form. Libba has looked the absolute best in the eye like Josh Kennedy and pantsed them - he (and we) can do it again in 2017.

I am hoping that 2017 is the experience that both the team and Libba really needed.
There is no question that Libba is/can be one of the best clearance players in the comp and he has elite disposal to go with it.

If he understands his potential (and he has a few mates on the list) and applies himself to the maximum, he can be a truly elite premiership midfielder and be a driving force in the dynasty that the current list could provide.

If the understanding does not materialise we may revert to making up the numbers as we have done for the previous 60 years.

[jeemak]

I actually think the professional nature of the game would see the transition out of a player like Liberatore more easily handled by our club or any club. Players know they have the option to move on from a club at any time - as we saw with Ward, and almost saw with JJ - and know the club has the same rights with players.

If Liberatore hasn't been doing what he should have been to get the best out of himself and the team, I'm sure the players would know about it and they'd understand if the club decided to take action.

The club and its priorities are bigger than Tom Liberatore. It will move on pretty quickly - as will its playes - if it decided it needed to let him go.

[ledge]

I see this a little different and maybe the club do , he isn't getting much of it but he still gets a game so he must be doing something right.
The team is starting to perform a little better so I don't think they have an issue with him still playing firsts.
Webb and Clay can't get in the team in front of him, which as fans /spectators we see could give more value but the club obviously doesn't.
Libba must be doing what the club is asking him to do or he wouldn't be playing.

[Go_Dogs]

I actually think the professional nature of the game would see the transition out of a player like Liberatore more easily handled by our club or any club. Players know they have the option to move on from a club at any time - as we saw with Ward, and almost saw with JJ - and know the club has the same rights with players.

If Liberatore hasn't been doing what he should have been to get the best out of himself and the team, I'm sure the players would know about it and they'd understand if the club decided to take action.

The club and its priorities are bigger than Tom Liberatore. It will move on pretty quickly - as will its playes - if it decided it needed to let him go.

If my underperforming colleague was moved on, I'd think that's a great move. Doesn't mean I don't like them as a person or have a particular issue with them - not sure how this is different to a football team. A lot of AFL players appear to follow the NBA, if this off-season is a guide, I'm sure they understand the environment modern professional sports people operate in.

[bulldogtragic]

Getting to the pointy end now. I'm still wanting 6 primary spots:

1) Matty Boyd - Club Champ, time to call time on your great career.
2) Mitch Honeychurch - Looks like this spider has got your career on our primary list unfortunately.
3) Stew Crameri - Managed to rookie list one way or another...
4) Declan Hamilton - Hasn't played a senior game, not likely to. All the best in the SANFL.
5) One un-signed player coming from the list of notable ones: Dale, Webb, Redpath or Tom Campbell requesting trade
6) One old dog, Bob or Morris

[bornadog]

BT, I think it will be Murp and Morris will hang in there. I am having my doubts on Webb.

[Topdog]

Is Clay Smith in danger of being delisted?

[bulldogtragic]

BT, I think it will be Murp and Morris will hang in there. I am having my doubts on Webb.

Agree on the old dogs. Personally, I reckon we've mismanaged Webb and he may well go and with a simplified program at another club, will be a pretty handy player. But he hasn't got a lot of runs on the board I agree, but I'd give him another contract. I mean, Hamilton got an extension, while the constantly injured Prudden clogged up the rookie list too. But its decision time shortly for some of these guys.

[bulldogtragic]

Is Clay Smith in danger of being delisted?

He got a one year extension. So no. But it would've been a good question.

[Topdog]

He got a one year extension. So no. But it would've been a good question.

I forgot about that.

[bulldogtragic]

I forgot about that.

Easy to forget. If it was a matter for right now, I'm not sure he'd be getting another year. If he can't play midfield, if he's a permanent forward pocket, then that's a bad decision to re-sign him to this.

[Bulldog4life]

Heard that Jakovich said that Murph to announce his retirement next week

[bulldogtragic]

Heard that Jakovich said that Murph to announce his retirement next week

This could be a god send, from the aspect of if these guys want him to be a premiership captain, it's very obvious what they'd need to do make that happen.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Easy to forget. If it was a matter for right now, I'm not sure he'd be getting another year. If he can't play midfield, if he's a permanent forward pocket, then that's a bad decision to re-sign him to this.

So what has happened with Clay that has seen his game diminish so rapidly. We know he's had 3 knee reco's, but that didn't stop him from being so vital late last year.
So, have his knee's deteriorated and are no longer allowing him to perform at the level required. Or is it like Libba he's perhaps not had the most ideal pre-season? Or has he just had a crap year.
I have, right from when we drafted him been concerned by his skill limitations. However the Clay Smith I saw last year won me over.
Can that Clay come back or is he cooked due to his injuries? If it's not endemic knees and rather just a poor pre-season that is to blame for his sluggishness and lack of form this year, then I'll back him in to do the work required to be the player he was last season.

[Topdog]

Heard that Jakovich said that Murph to announce his retirement next week

Complete guess work from Jako

[jeemak]

Glen Jackovich, Western Bulldogs whisperer.

Clay's really struggled with continuity and form, and it's probably a range of issues contributing to that, from preseason to attitude, to fundamental body and ability issues.

Premiership teams always have players who drop off to become less regular fixtures in the senior side, become depth players, get delisted or retire. It could be that we got the best out of Smith at the right time and he's so far gone that he's almost done with us aside from being a depth player.

[hujsh]

Glen Jackovich, Western Bulldogs whisperer.

Clay's really struggled with continuity and form, and it's probably a range of issues contributing to that, from preseason to attitude, to fundamental body and ability issues.

Premiership teams always have players who drop off to become less regular fixtures in the senior side, become depth players, get delisted or retire. It could be that we got the best out of Smith at the right time and he's so far gone that he's almost done with us aside from being a depth player.

Clay to be our Nick Davis?

[jeemak]

Clay to be our Nick Davis?

Depends on whether Bevo decides to turn to the same level of sociopathy or hedonism Roos decided to post his success.

[Hotdog60]

As much as I love Bob, to me he is looking tired and showing his age.
He will pop up and do what Bob does but I think the body is starting to feel the rigors of a long AFL career.

[Topdog]

Glen Jackovich, Western Bulldogs whisperer.

Clay's really struggled with continuity and form, and it's probably a range of issues contributing to that, from preseason to attitude, to fundamental body and ability issues.

Premiership teams always have players who drop off to become less regular fixtures in the senior side, become depth players, get delisted or retire. It could be that we got the best out of Smith at the right time and he's so far gone that he's almost done with us aside from being a depth player.

Yeah good point and he very well could be that. He goes down in Bulldogs folklore for his finals performances throughout 2016 he was sensational

[comrade]

Boyd and Murph to retire.

Morris is a possibility to stay on for one more year to assist with the transition to Cordy/Adams/Young as our defensive stalwarts.

Honeychurch is in the Hrovat/Stevens category of too good for VFL but not good enough for consistent top line AFL, and given the need to overturn the list each year, he's expendable.

I can see Webb getting offers. I rate him as a long term prospect due to his kicking and overhead skills and proven ability to accumulate big numbers at VFL but he hasn't been able to replicate that form with us at AFL level. Another one who may be seen as expendable.

And if Tom Campbell's manager had any clue, he'd be finding him a new home as we speak with English only going to develop and improve.

[ledge]

I'm not done on clay smith, I thought he did well yesterday , he might not get the ball much at times but by Christ he tackles and hits hard.
The opposition know he is around.
I find the same with Liberatore he isn't getting the ball half as much As he was but Bevo keeps playing him.
I tend to think they are both performing the role they are given and we as outsiders don't know what it is and just go on what they did previously.
Libber seems to be a part tagger now and clays role seems to have changed with Cloke Redpath and the Bont going forward more.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm starting to wonder why Hamilton was given another year, being this season.

[ledge]

Boyd and Murph to retire.

Morris is a possibility to stay on for one more year to assist with the transition to Cordy/Adams/Young as our defensive stalwarts.

Honeychurch is in the Hrovat/Stevens category of too good for VFL but not good enough for consistent top line AFL, and given the need to overturn the list each year, he's expendable.

I can see Webb getting offers. I rate him as a long term prospect due to his kicking and overhead skills and proven ability to accumulate big numbers at VFL but he hasn't been able to replicate that form with us at AFL level. Another one who may be seen as expendable.

And if Tom Campbell's manager had any clue, he'd be finding him a new home as we speak with English only going to develop and improve.

Not sure any clubs would want Campbell, not that he is a bad player he just hasn't seemed to click with an all round good game at AFL level.
I wouldn't be letting honeychurch go , he was just starting to make his way and got hit by an infection.
Webb just wasn't with it yesterday but he like honeychurch hasn't had a long run at it.
How much has Dickson got left in him now ? He is around 30.

[GVGjr]

I'm starting to wonder why Hamilton was given another year, being this season.

It was the right decision at the time but hasn't worked out.

[bulldogtragic]

Stevo saying Bob & Matty Boyd likely to retire.

[Remi Moses]

Hamilton just doesn't get involved enough for mine . I'm not surprised Bob and Keith retire

[hujsh]

As much as I love Bob, to me he is looking tired and showing his age.
He will pop up and do what Bob does but I think the body is starting to feel the rigors of a long AFL career.

People have pointed it our already but it really looks bad when he fails to push back hard and chase when the ball is turned over and the opposition are on a fast break.

That's when he looks his age and the main sign for me he should retire.

[EasternWest]

Zero chance Dale won't be a Bulldog next year, unless he wants out.

[bornadog]

From AFL.com.au


Out-of-contract Crow Jake Lever tops the Bulldogs' wish list and they have reportedly dangled a five-year offer worth more than $800,000 a season. They face stiff competition for the key defender's signature if he decides to leave Adelaide, with Melbourne and Collingwood among a raft of Victorian clubs waiting to pounce.

Forward Stewart Crameri's future remains uncertain more than two months after a hip injury ended his season. The former Bomber, who turns 29 on Thursday, managed just two senior games this year in his return from a year-long WADA ban, and the Bulldogs have yet to indicate whether they will offer him a new contract.

Promising youngster Bailey Dale will re-sign but both parties are assessing his market worth in light of his breakthrough second half of 2017, while the Bulldogs are believed to have an offer on the table for fellow 2014 draftee Lukas Webb, who is weighing up the opportunities he can expect at the club beyond 2017.

After Matthew Boyd announced his retirement on Tuesday, the Bulldogs face tough calls on club greats Robert Murphy, 35, and Dale Morris, 34. Both remain valuable players when fit, but Murphy appears best placed to continue. The Dogs skipper has played 14 games this season and continues to have an impact, whether in defence or attack, but Morris has had a horror injury run and could decide his body has had enough.

By Nick Bowen (http://www.afl.com.au/news/author/nick-bowen)

[ledge]

From AFL.com.au


Out-of-contract Crow Jake Lever tops the Bulldogs' wish list and they have reportedly dangled a five-year offer worth more than $800,000 a season. They face stiff competition for the key defender's signature if he decides to leave Adelaide, with Melbourne and Collingwood among a raft of Victorian clubs waiting to pounce.

Forward Stewart Crameri's future remains uncertain more than two months after a hip injury ended his season. The former Bomber, who turns 29 on Thursday, managed just two senior games this year in his return from a year-long WADA ban, and the Bulldogs have yet to indicate whether they will offer him a new contract.

Promising youngster Bailey Dale will re-sign but both parties are assessing his market worth in light of his breakthrough second half of 2017, while the Bulldogs are believed to have an offer on the table for fellow 2014 draftee Lukas Webb, who is weighing up the opportunities he can expect at the club beyond 2017.

After Matthew Boyd announced his retirement on Tuesday, the Bulldogs face tough calls on club greats Robert Murphy, 35, and Dale Morris, 34. Both remain valuable players when fit, but Murphy appears best placed to continue. The Dogs skipper has played 14 games this season and continues to have an impact, whether in defence or attack, but Morris has had a horror injury run and could decide his body has had enough.

By Nick Bowen (http://www.afl.com.au/news/author/nick-bowen)


I personally Think he has got it wrong with Murphy and Morris if anything it will be the other way round.

[bulldogtragic]

From AFL.com.au


Out-of-contract Crow Jake Lever tops the Bulldogs' wish list and they have reportedly dangled a five-year offer worth more than $800,000 a season. They face stiff competition for the key defender's signature if he decides to leave Adelaide, with Melbourne and Collingwood among a raft of Victorian clubs waiting to pounce.

Forward Stewart Crameri's future remains uncertain more than two months after a hip injury ended his season. The former Bomber, who turns 29 on Thursday, managed just two senior games this year in his return from a year-long WADA ban, and the Bulldogs have yet to indicate whether they will offer him a new contract.

Promising youngster Bailey Dale will re-sign but both parties are assessing his market worth in light of his breakthrough second half of 2017, while the Bulldogs are believed to have an offer on the table for fellow 2014 draftee Lukas Webb, who is weighing up the opportunities he can expect at the club beyond 2017.

After Matthew Boyd announced his retirement on Tuesday, the Bulldogs face tough calls on club greats Robert Murphy, 35, and Dale Morris, 34. Both remain valuable players when fit, but Murphy appears best placed to continue. The Dogs skipper has played 14 games this season and continues to have an impact, whether in defence or attack, but Morris has had a horror injury run and could decide his body has had enough.

By Nick Bowen (http://www.afl.com.au/news/author/nick-bowen)


If we are throwing that at Lever there's nothing to offer Kelly. I think I can assume we are not in the Kelly race.

I'd like both Webb & Dale's signatures ASAP.

[Remi Moses]

Think they're playing their cards close to their chest after the Hurley disappointment

[azabob]

What is our gut feel on Crameri? Hasn't played pretty much for 2 years. He is a long way back and his body seems to struggle with the rigors or AFL footy.

Not too fussed on Webb's signiture. Bailey Dale is the priority for me.

[bulldogtragic]

What is our gut feel on Crameri? Hasn't played pretty much for 2 years. He is a long way back and his body seems to struggle with the rigors or AFL footy.

Not too fussed on Webb's signiture. Bailey Dale is the priority for me.

I'd move Crameri to the rookie list. How? Scare off all other clubs with how bad his hip injury is, and we want to look after him after the WADA ban. Makes it very risky for anyone else to take him before our first rookie list pick, especially if he refuses medicals at any other clubs.

Rookies can be upgraded straight away next year, so he can play from the get go if he's fit. If he loses money, he can add these losses to his legal claim. But we keep him and look after him by keeping him, but balance the risks of his body against salary cap and a primary list spot.

[Rocco Jones]

I'd move Crameri to the rookie list. How? Scare off all other clubs with how bad his hip injury is, and we want to look after him after the WADA ban. Makes it very risky for anyone else to take him before our first rookie list pick, especially if he refuses medicals at any other clubs.

Why would he want to 'scare off' potential employers offering him more than leaue minimum?

I think we should go with the rookie draft idea with Crameri too, but I don't blame him if he wants to play for another club offering him more.

[Rocco Jones]

- Hamilton gone
- Prudden delisted off rookie list with Honey or Crameri moved onto rookie list
- M Boyd and probably Bob retired

That's four spots there.

[Bulldog4life]

- Hamilton gone
- Prudden delisted off rookie list with Honey or Crameri moved onto rookie list
- M Boyd and probably Bob retired

That's four spots there.

What about Roarke Smith and Brad Lynch. Don't we have to upgrade them to keep them? If so we need to at least delist one more at minimum.

[comrade]

What about Roarke Smith and Brad Lynch. Don't we have to upgrade them to keep them? If so we need to at least delist one more at minimum.

Both have potential to make it and both have been cruelled by injury this year. Tough call. If we could offer Lynch another year on the rookie list, I'd do it.

[bulldogtragic]

Both have potential to make it and both have been cruelled by injury this year. Tough call. If we could offer Lynch another year on the rookie list, I'd do it.

I'm not sure if they changed the fine orient in the new CBA. But you can have one third year rookie only, so we could offer that spot to Lynch. Smith is in his third rookie year, so it's cut him, or promote him which it sounds like promotion will happen. NMM gets another year and Prudden gets cut I think. So i think we have two spots, one for Crameri and one for a kid.

[comrade]

I'm not sure if they changed the fine orient in the new CBA. But you can have one third year rookie only, so we could offer that spot to Lynch. Smith is in his third rookie year, so it's cut him, or promote him which it sounds like promotion will happen. NMM gets another year and Prudden gets cut I think. So i think we have two spots, one for Crameri and one for a kid.

If that's the case, promote Smith and retain Lynch. Gut feel tells me he'll be worth it.

[bulldogtragic]

If that's the case, promote Smith and retain Lynch. Gut feel tells me he'll be worth it.

Ditto. I was hoping for a good show this season, but injuries have smashed that. We lack pace, we lack kicking skills. So let's develop his defensive side and continuity of fitness and see what happens. Like you, I think he's worth it.

[bulldogtragic]

Confirmed: (2)

Bob Murphy
Brad Boyd

Uncontracted: (7)

Lukas Webb
Bailey Dale
Mitch Honeychurch
Declan Hamilton
Jack Redpath
Stew Crameri
Dale Morris

[The Underdog]

Confirmed: (2)

Bob Murphy
Brad Boyd

Uncontracted: (7)

Lukas Webb
Bailey Dale
Mitch Honeychurch
Declan Hamilton
Jack Redpath
Stew Crameri
Dale Morris

I'm sure Hamilton signed an extension for next year

[KT31]

Need to get Bailey signed up immediately.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm sure Hamilton signed an extension for next year

I can't see anything online about it. Footywire also has him out of contract. Was it from the club?

[azabob]

I'm sure Hamilton signed an extension for next year

That was 2016 for 2017.

[azabob]

This whole Essendon saga has screwed Crameri's career. Will be lucky to be on our main list and if he is will be on a third less than what he came across on.

[bulldogtragic]

This whole Essendon saga has screwed Crameri's career. Will be lucky to be on our main list and if he is will be on a third less than what he came across on.

Lucky his lawyers at Gordon Legal can sue for that loss of income... :D

I think the best for everyone is to engineer a move to the rookie list. If he can get fit, then he can play from round one and earn a bigger contract for 2019. Or at least that's what I hope we can achieve.

[Doc26]

Crameri moving to our a rookie list! How has this suggestion come about? Sure he returned to 2017 in at best average condition, ruled out for the season with a hip but he's far from on his own here and with more compelling reasons given what he's been put through. If we are a Club that 'Puts our arms around him' like Clay, like Roarke, like TBoyd etc I don't get why we would offload him to our rookie list because of one off season - particularly given his upside and our desperate need for what he can deliver.

If there's not a place for him on our main list, and compensated accordingly, he will be off to another Club that would undoubtedly value him more highly than a rookie.

[GVGjr]

For Crameri, and any other player, it should comes down to attitude, hunger and talent to see if they should be maintained on the senior list. He will have to be prepared to take a pay cut but if he has the desire we should keep him as a senior listed player. He's talked a couple of times at the players sponsors area and from memory he will be close to resuming training now. If all parties can get a deal done then he should be fit enough by December to set himself up for a good season in 2018.

[bornadog]

For Crameri, and any other player, it should comes down to attitude, hunger and talent to see if they should be maintained on the senior list. He will have to be prepared to take a pay cut but if he has the desire we should keep him as a senior listed player. He's talked a couple of times at the players sponsors area and from memory he will be close to resuming training now. If all parties can get a deal done then he should be fit enough by December to set himself up for a good season in 2018.

If you watch the Bob Murphy speech to players, Crameri is right there at the front. If he had no interest he wouldn't show up to the player sponsor area or to the farewell speeches for both Bob and Matty Boyd.

As Doc26 says a rookie spot is a ridiculous idea, he would be picked up by another club at a heart beat.

[bulldogtragic]

Crameri moving to our a rookie list! How has this suggestion come about? Sure he returned to 2017 in at best average condition, ruled out for the season with a hip but he's far from on his own here and with more compelling reasons given what he's been put through. If we are a Club that 'Puts our arms around him' like Clay, like Roarke, like TBoyd etc I don't get why we would offload him to our rookie list because of one off season - particularly given his upside and our desperate need for what he can deliver.

If there's not a place for him on our main list, and compensated accordingly, he will be off to another Club that would undoubtedly value him more highly than a rookie.

It's just a hunch. Nothing against Stew whatsoever, or negative inferences. Just a hunch.

[GVGjr]

If you watch the Bob Murphy speech to players, Crameri is right there at the front. If he had no interest he wouldn't show up to the player sponsor area or to the farewell speeches for both Bob and Matty Boyd.

As Doc26 says a rookie spot is a ridiculous idea, he would be picked up by another club at a heart beat.

Surely seating arrangements isn't a good indicator. My point is the coaches need to have faith in Crameri, and any other out of contract player, that they have the right hunger, talent and desire to get this team back into a serious finals contender. If anyone falls short of that then we need to help them find a good home. I agree with Doc and yourself that you don't put Crameri on a rookie list. He's either in or out.

[Pickenitup]

I think we need to keep Crammers exactly the type of player we miss should be a incentive based contract for one year with triggers for a extra year with Bob and Boydy leaving we need experience around the club.

[GVGjr]

I think we need to keep Crammers exactly the type of player we miss should be a incentive based contract for one year with triggers for a extra year with Bob and Boydy leaving we need experience around the club.

On ability we need him at the club as he gives as some great balance in the forward line. I'd be surprised if a one year deal offer would be accepted by Crameri.

[Twodogs]

Surely seating arrangements isn't a good indicator. My point is the coaches need to have faith in Crameri, and any other out of contract player, that they have the right hunger, talent and desire to get this team back into a serious finals contender. If anyone falls short of that then we need to help them find a good home. I agree with Doc and yourself that you don't put Crameri on a rookie list. He's either in or out.

No, probably not. Crammers looks a bit annoyed to me.

[AndrewP6]

No, probably not. Crammers looks a bit annoyed to me.

A year out because of Essendon, best part of a year out because of hip surgery - I'd be pretty annoyed too.

[jeemak]

We need to be realistic about how the game has evolved and whether a player like Crameri is a part of it. Is he fast, is he good overhead, is he durable, is he clever and can he get his hands on the ball?

When we picked him up he was all of those things. How many of them is he after two years out of the game? I'm concerned he's edging close to none.

[Twodogs]

A year out because of Essendon, best part of a year out because of hip surgery - I'd be pretty annoyed too.


For sure.

[Bullies]

On ability we need him at the club as he gives as some great balance in the forward line. I'd be surprised if a one year deal offer would be accepted by Crameri.could you risk offering him any more than one year after being out of the game for two years? This game moves on quickly. I would give him one year with a few milestones in it for an extension to be triggered.

[azabob]

Great News Bailey Dale has signed for a further two years!

[bulldogtragic]

Great News Bailey Dale has signed for a further two years!

Giddy up!!

[The Underdog]

That was 2016 for 2017.

Time man, it's just *!*!*!*!ing with me.

[bulldogtragic]

Time man, it's just *!*!*!*!ing with me.

Happens to the best of us. Under three years of Bevo coaching, only a mere two players haven't been given a senior game (ex. rookies and some of last year's draftees), Matt Fuller & Declan Hamilton. I think Declan will be joining Fuller in the SANFL next year.

[bulldogtragic]

Well we're done. This shit has got real now.

Bob & Boyd gone
Webb & Redders have contracts, but haven't signed them
Honey & Hamilton up against it
Media Questioning Cloke & Crameri
Campbell may ask for a trade
As for rookies, I'm guessing Prudden is gone, Smith upgraded (based on what Bevo has said), Lynch, NMM & Tweedie to stay.

Any surprise trades?

[G-Mo77]

So what pick do we have?

[bulldogtragic]

So what pick do we have?

Likely 8, 26 & 40 before adjustments

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Well we're done. This shit has got real now.

Bob & Boyd gone
Webb & Redders have contracts, but haven't signed them
Honey & Hamilton up against it
Media Questioning Cloke & Crameri
Campbell may ask for a trade
As for rookies, I'm guessing Prudden is gone, Smith upgraded (based on what Bevo has said), Lynch, NMM & Tweedie to stay.

Any surprise trades?

What concerns me most..and it's gotten louder with the media noise suggesting Lever has given us the thumbs down, is that our performance this year...almost undermines our win last year - not in terms of legitimacy- but in terms of how our club looks long term to talented players looking to move clubs.... That Lever might favour the Demons or Collingwood...despite their fortunes for some years now...and in spite of our so-called young talented list...WHY?????

We really needed to consolidate this year in terms of performance I think to break down the long built up perceptions both outside and within the football community of our club.
We are a long way from being a destination club. And with that being the case.. I really hope we don't try and go down the route of trading for ordinary guys just for the sake of getting someone. If we're not getting an A grader.. hold on to our picks and back in Dalrymple.
As I write.. we've got the talking heads wondering what we do with Lever turning us down, whether we go back to Roughy again down back... goodness me.. If Roughy is our fullback in 2018.. I might as well just take up the darts again right now...

[always right]

What concerns me most..and it's gotten louder with the media noise suggesting Lever has given us the thumbs down, is that our performance this year...almost undermines our win last year - not in terms of legitimacy- but in terms of how our club looks long term to talented players looking to move clubs.... That Lever might favour the Demons or Collingwood...despite their fortunes for some years now...and in spite of our so-called young talented list...WHY?????

We really needed to consolidate this year in terms of performance I think to break down the long built up perceptions both outside and within the football community of our club.
We are a long way from being a destination club. And with that being the case.. I really hope we don't try and go down the route of trading for ordinary guys just for the sake of getting someone. If we're not getting an A grader.. hold on to our picks and back in Dalrymple.
As I write.. we've got the talking heads wondering what we do with Lever turning us down, whether we go back to Roughy again down back... goodness me.. If Roughy is our fullback in 2018.. I might as well just take up the darts again right now...

Why would we go back to Roughy in defence when we have Wood and Adams coming back from injury, Collins showing improvement and Cordy being one of the few positives this year?

[Twodogs]

Why would we go back to Roughy in defence when we have Wood and Adams coming back from injury, Collins showing improvement and Cordy being one of the few positives this year?


Because the talking heads have to say something, it doesn't matter if it's accurate or relevant, just so long as there is no dead air.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Why would we go back to Roughy in defence when we have Wood and Adams coming back from injury, Collins showing improvement and Cordy being one of the few positives this year?

I obviously hope we don't. But to be fair.. We've been owned by key forwards all year, and especially more since Adams and Wood have gone down. Adams hasn't been durable to date, Collins has 1 game to his name...Cordy ain't gonna do it by himself. Moz, if he goes on, can't be the guy to shoulder the load.
But for that, our defense is not our most glaring problem and I think is really a reflection of our woes further upfield and specifically our inability to stop teams from quickly transitioning.
Our team defense requires time to settle and position... How many outnumber situations have we seen, particularly as the season has worn on? We're intrinsically small down back, we were last year too. It didn't hurt us last year because our skill execution firstly was better and resulted in less turn overs that would expose our shorter backline... and secondly we didn't allow teams to move the ball easily from out of our forward line to theirs with any speed, which allowed us to get sufficient numbers back in defense.
Not this year..
We missed 2016 versions of Libba, Dahl, Clay Smith, Dickson, Hunter, JJ and even Dunkley, to maintain pressure and stifle opposition ball movement out of our territory.
Unless Bevo and Co have a completely differently nuanced game style in store for 2018, we'd better hope like hell those players find their 2016 versions of themselves once they get back to training.

[Remi Moses]

Let's not panic and blow the joint up

[GVGjr]

BT, what is the thought around Campbell requesting a trade? Is there a team that would make him the number one ruckman?

To me the only way Campbell asks to be traded is if we land a Kruezer and he's shunted down to number 3

[Twodogs]

Let's not panic and blow the joint up

Agree.

[The Underdog]

BT, what is the thought around Campbell requesting a trade? Is there a team that would make him the number one ruckman?

To me the only way Campbell asks to be traded is if we land a Kruezer and he's shunted down to number 3

Agree, he's not a number one ruck man anywhere and I can't imagine anyone offering him that role. He already can't grab that role on a team that is screaming out for it, although injuries have played a part. I can't say he's ever struck me as a high quality AFL player though. If we did have to trade him the compensation would be negligible.

[bulldogtragic]

BT, what is the thought around Campbell requesting a trade? Is there a team that would make him the number one ruckman?

To me the only way Campbell asks to be traded is if we land a Kruezer and he's shunted down to number 3

Yep. 1) Hopefully we land a high quality first ruck. Kruezer is my target.
2) Bevo doesn't seem to have faith in him. Rather than play him earlier this year, we went with Boyd as the primary ruck, and no second ruck. If he stays, and if there's a lack of faith, then his career is dead with another season in the VFL.

It's just intuition on my part.

[DOG GOD]

We missed 2016 versions of Libba, Dahl, Clay Smith, Dickson, Hunter, JJ and even Dunkley, to maintain pressure and stifle opposition ball movement out of our territory.
Unless Bevo and Co have a completely differently nuanced game style in store for 2018, we'd better hope like hell those players find their 2016 versions of themselves once they get back to training.

And those names concern me greatly to be able to get to their 2016 best.
Libba- depends on application. Last night showed what am important player he is to our team and how elite he can be in the competition. The question remains...is he hungry enough?

Dalh- still in and under bulldog quality, but I'm seeing a hint in lack of pace, and disposal is very questionable most games.

Smith- I think 3 recos are starting to catch up with him, and will be lucky to play half the season in the 1sts next year unless we can see some of that spark return. Lacks pace, disposal questionable, and depending on our setup may see him on the back burner.

Dickson- looked a completely different player this year to last. Injuries hit hard, but also looked quite slow in games and couldn't get near it often enough. I'm a big fan, and his kicking for goal is by far our best. Really need him to find form and play 22 games next year.

Hunter- tries hard, but can have lazy moments with disposal that lets him down. Really need him to go to a new level next year and be an elite mover between 50's.

JJ- one of the most important to our team with run and carry. Surely can't have another year like this one. Weak at the tackle and this needs to be rectified if he's going to be playing more upfield during games.

Dunkley- another, due to injuries who took a major step back. Needs a huge preseason and work on his disposal.

[The Doctor]

My view is we keep all remaining players from our premiership team. There is still 20 of them and thats good enough for another premiership crack. We just have to get their heads right and their bodies right. But the ability has been proven so we should keep it.

I would let go

Honeychurch
Webb
Hamilton
Crameri

Cloke (retain if Redpath goes)

Boyd - retired
Murphy - retired

So that would be 7 from the primary list.

[ledge]

Wouldn't be letting HC or Webb go they are both ready to perform next year , HC was starting to get comfortable just got a health issue.
Webb also got a feel this year at the end.
More of a give the kids a go year and prepare them for next year it seemed.
HC I see as a forward pocket mid.
Webb to be a mid forward pocket.

[boydogs]

I would let go

Honeychurch
Webb
Hamilton
Crameri

Cloke (retain if Redpath goes)

Would rather keep Crameri and Cloke, they have proven ability at the top level and could be damaging if they can get back to their best. Smith isn't fit enough and Campbell hasn't come on if we need to make room

[Twodogs]

Wouldn't be letting HC or Webb go they are both ready to perform next year , HC was starting to get comfortable just got a health issue.
Webb also got a feel this year at the end.
More of a give the kids a go year and prepare them for next year it seemed.
HC I see as a forward pocket mid.
Webb to be a mid forward pocket.


I think they want Webb off a HBF distributing the ball ledge. Although why they bring him into the AFL team and play him anywhere but the spot he plays in the VFL team is beyond me.

[The Doctor]

Honeychurch simply doesn't hurt the opposition on the scoreboard.

Webb, for some reason, looks like a fish out of water in the seniors. There must be a reason why he doesn't get picked despite excellent VFL form. Maybe he finds the transition to hard or plays too much within himself. not sure. Certainly has the ability.

[ledge]

I think they want Webb off a HBF distributing the ball ledge. Although why they bring him into the AFL team and play him anywhere but the spot he plays in the VFL team is beyond me.

Whatever they do it seems silly to groom someone for two three years then when they look like making it to turf them.
Hamilton to me is obviously not going to make it though.

[Twodogs]

Whatever they do it seems silly to groom someone for two three years then when they look like making it to turf them.
Hamilton to me is obviously not going to make it though.


Agreed. But if I were Webb I would ask for a transfer anyway.

[bornadog]

My view is we keep all remaining players from our premiership team. There is still 20 of them and thats good enough for another premiership crack. We just have to get their heads right and their bodies right. But the ability has been proven so we should keep it.

I would let go

Honeychurch
Webb
Hamilton
Crameri

Cloke (retain if Redpath goes)

Boyd - retired
Murphy - retired

So that would be 7 from the primary list.

Agree Doc, but I would like to see Crameri retained. Cloke has a contract for another year and we should honour that if he wants to continue.

I would also drop Campbell, he may be tall but if he is not AFL standard, we have to cut our loss.

[Bulldog4life]

Agree Doc, but I would like to see Crameri retained. Cloke has a contract for another year and we should honour that if he wants to continue.

I would also drop Campbell, he may be tall but if he is not AFL standard, we have to cut our loss.

The way Bevo was talking that if Clokey really wants to play on he will. His heart has got to be in it.

[bornadog]

The way Bevo was talking that if Clokey really wants to play on he will. His heart has got to be in it.

Yep, I think it comes down to Cloke. I do have a gut feeling he may retire, but that is purely a guess.

[LostDoggy]

Agree Doc, but I would like to see Crameri retained. Cloke has a contract for another year and we should honour that if he wants to continue.

I would also drop Campbell, he may be tall but if he is not AFL standard, we have to cut our loss.

I think Campbell's position will be decided by the trade period. If we can acquire a ready made ruckamn, I would agree that BTC has not quite measured up to AFL standard regularly enough to retain his spot. If we can't, I don't think Roughy and Boyd are physically reliable enough to be our entire stock of ready to go Ruckmen.

[GVGjr]

I think Campbell's position will be decided by the trade period. If we can acquire a ready made ruckamn, I would agree that BTC has not quite measured up to AFL standard regularly enough to retain his spot. If we can't, I don't think Roughy and Boyd are physically reliable enough to be our entire stock of ready to go Ruckmen.

Very much so, if we can't find a replacement or two then we need him to stay.

[DOG GOD]

You read about Kruezer , but how likely is that? Anyone hear anything more concrete than just the odd word floating around?

[Twodogs]

Did anyone actually read something about Kruezer? I'd like that to be true but just assumed it was only here it was mentioned.

[GVGjr]

Did anyone actually read something about Kruezer? I'd like that to be true but just assumed it was only here it was mentioned.

I think we were interested in him a couple of seasons back and with him out of contract now the door might be ajar.
I still think it would be unlikely he will leave the Blues

[Twodogs]

I think we were interested in him a couple of seasons back and with him out of contract now the door might be ajar.
I still think it would be unlikely he will leave the Blues

He would be ideal.

[kruder]

I actually think Campbell shows more than Roughead. I think Roughead gets a wide birth at the club because of the good bloke/leader factor which you have to take into account but outside of the finals last year he has just been a player for mine.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Crameri not offered a new contract. Disappointed. Wouldn't he have some sort of trade currency?

[bulldogtragic]

Crameri not offered a new contract. Disappointed. Wouldn't he have some sort of trade currency?

Not even offering a rookie spot?

Essendon stoked with Zak Merrett even more.

[Happy Days]

Not even offering a rookie spot?

Essendon stoked with Zak Merrett even more.

But just think of all the equity we got by playing nice with them for some reason!

[kruder]

Crameri not offered a new contract. Disappointed. Wouldn't he have some sort of trade currency?

Ah dam was keen to keep him. Where did you hear this?

[bulldogtragic]

But just think of all the equity we got by playing nice with them for some reason!

I have a feeling this old wound is about to get picked back open. It was buyer beware too...

[kruder]

I was listening to SEN for a minute today and not sure who said it but linked the dogs with Schache even though he has signed. I've been surprised that he couldn't make the grade after the fact. It seems strange that the dogs haven't offered Crameri a contract with Cloke potential retiring and redpath open to offers. Anyone think we have something up out sleeve?

[Rocket Science]

RE: Crameri ... curious if true. It's not as if we're blessed with blokes with goal nouse, nor would he have commanded much by way of $$.

Perhaps we'd consider throwing him a pre-season lifeline if other contingencies turn to shite.

[GVGjr]

RE: Crameri ... curious if true. It's not as if we're blessed with blokes with goal nouse, nor would he have commanded much by way of $$.

Perhaps we'd consider throwing him a pre-season lifeline if other contingencies turn to shite.

I've checked the clubs website and did a google search for Stewart Crameri and cannot locate a story that confirms what BT&T suggested. Hopefully someone can shed some light on it.

[GVGjr]

I was listening to SEN for a minute today and not sure who said it but linked the dogs with Schache even though he has signed. I've been surprised that he couldn't make the grade after the fact. It seems strange that the dogs haven't offered Crameri a contract with Cloke potential retiring and redpath open to offers. Anyone think we have something up out sleeve?

It was Brian Waldron who shouldn't be trusted

Here is a bit from SEN

American ruckman Mason Cox is set to depart Collingwood to move north to Brisbane, according to former St Kilda chief executive Brian Waldon.

The out of contract 26-year-old has attracted plenty of interest from rival clubs following his return to the senior team in Round 21. Cox averaged 36 hitouts a game in his final three home and away matches as well as chipping in with four goals.

Waldron told SEN’s Hungry For Sport that he expects the 211cm big man to change clubs during the trade period.

“He's going to Brisbane”, he said.

It is understood that Collingwood is keen to retain Cox’s services, but face a fight to keep him in black and white.

Waldon also said that Brisbane youngster Josh Schache – he re-signed with the Lions mid-season – remains a player of interest for rival clubs, with the Western Bulldogs keen to lure him back to Victoria.

[kruder]

It was Brian Waldron who shouldn't be trusted

Here is a bit from SEN

American ruckman Mason Cox is set to depart Collingwood to move north to Brisbane, according to former St Kilda chief executive Brian Waldon.

The out of contract 26-year-old has attracted plenty of interest from rival clubs following his return to the senior team in Round 21. Cox averaged 36 hitouts a game in his final three home and away matches as well as chipping in with four goals.

Waldron told SEN’s Hungry For Sport that he expects the 211cm big man to change clubs during the trade period.

“He's going to Brisbane”, he said.

It is understood that Collingwood is keen to retain Cox’s services, but face a fight to keep him in black and white.

Waldon also said that Brisbane youngster Josh Schache – he re-signed with the Lions mid-season – remains a player of interest for rival clubs, with the Western Bulldogs keen to lure him back to Victoria.

Nice thanks for that. I'm not sure id be offering a massive contract to Schache, from the outside looking in he didn't seem to able to handle the scrutiny well and if he did decide to break contract the pressure would go up 10 fold.

[boydogs]

I've checked the clubs website and did a google search for Stewart Crameri and cannot locate a story that confirms what BT&T suggested. Hopefully someone can shed some light on it.

https://twitter.com/tennewsmelb/status/902440435758415872