3rd man up rule

[GVGjr]

Plenty of reports that there is a review on this to protect the ruckman.
How will this impact us?

[comrade]

Plenty of reports that there is a review on this to protect the ruckman.
How will this impact us?

I think it'll hurt us. We don't have naturally dominant tap ruckman, and utilise 3rd man up frequently to negate the opposition: see Bont's GF performance.

[bulldogtragic]

Plenty of reports that there is a review on this to protect the ruckman.
How will this impact us?

I know we do it a bit, but are we that successful at it? So I'm not too fazed if they get back to one on one contests. Hawthorn may have a few issues. As a general view, I don't like the third man up for a few reasons not least of which the contest, the rucks and the ability for umpires to over officiate with 'blocking' frees or even the opposite allowing free for alls. If it's back to one on one contests and they don't stuff it around with bad new rules and complex instructions to umpires, then I'm happy.

[LostDoggy]

We have effective 3rd men up in Bont, Jong and Dunkley, but overall it's a pretty tiny part of the game. We'll win most clearances regardless. For the good of the game, I think the idea of 2 ruckmen jumping unimpeded is probably a fair call.

[comrade]

We have effective 3rd men up in Bont, Jong and Dunkley, but overall it's a pretty tiny part of the game. We'll win most clearances regardless. For the good of the game, I think the idea of 2 ruckmen jumping unimpeded is probably a fair call.

If it reduces the amount of ruck infringements where no one has any real idea why the free was paid, it's a good thing. Bevo will adjust.

[GVGjr]

I think it's allowed us to go into games with just one ruckman so if they stop it Boyd will have to play a bit more in the ruck

[bulldogtragic]

I think it's allowed us to go into games with just one ruckman so if they stop it Boyd will have to play a bit more in the ruck

Bevo said Campbell, Roughy, Boyd & Redders could all play together and would play together a fair bit. Substitute Redders for Cloke, and I'd like to see how this sets up in the preseason rounds.

[LostDoggy]

Double poast

[LostDoggy]

Third Man Up on Caches Agenda Summit

Mark Blicavs goes "third man up" more than any other player in the AFL

Peter Ryan November 21, 2016 7:46 PM

THE number of times a player goes "third man up" at stoppages has increased dramatically in the past two seasons as the AFL prepares to discuss the tactic with coaches at Friday's annual laws summit.

Statistics show that a third man contested 13.2 per cent of stoppages in 2016 and 12.8 per cent of stoppages in 2015, a dramatic increase from about eight per cent in the previous four seasons.

The tactic has been put on Friday's agenda after discussion on the issue last season failed to reach a consensus, with many considering the tactic was beneficial in clearing congestion.

However, with no apparent link between hit-outs to advantage and clearances and the potential for increased injury to ruckman, the need to allow the tactic has been questioned.

One assistant coach told AFL.com.au he thought players were best placed to determine whether the tactic was acceptable as welfare issues were a significant factor.

In February, Dockers coach Ross Lyon raised the issue again when his star ruckman Aaron Sandilands was suspended for a high bump after Richmond's Ben Griffiths approached the ruck contest to go "third man up" in a pre-season game.

Other clubs have been concerned at times at the exposure of ruckmen to opponents jumping in as the "third man up" with umpires also finding it hard to umpire contests where players try to block opponents wanting to be the third man contesting the ruck.

Geelong, St Kilda and Fremantle led the way in 2016 with the Cats and Saints taking advantage of their multiple big man options while the Dockers tried to cover for the loss of Sandilands to injury.

The Cats' ruckman/midfielder Mark Blicavs goes "third man up" more often than any other player in the competition, with Port Adelaide youngster Ollie Wines and Melbourne recruit Jordan Lewis also exponents.

The athletic Blicavs has almost doubled the next best player for being "third man up" at ruck contests in the past two seasons as the Cats led the competition in the practice.

Blicavs went "third man up" on average six times a game in 2016, after being "third man up" 4.8 times in 2015, outstripping Wines who averaged three third man hit-outs in 2016 and Lewis who averaged 2.5 in 2015.

Melbourne will benefit from Lewis' experience around the stoppage with statistics showing the Demons suffered the second most successful "third man up" attempts from opponents in 2016 as they tried to counter All Australian ruckman Max Gawn.

Clubs will be watching the discussion closely with their ruck needs constantly changing.

The Western Bulldogs' premiership-winning ruck combination this season was Jordan Roughead and Tom Boyd, both developing as ruckmen despite entering the AFL as key position players.

Average "third man up" per game 2016 Mark Blicavs 6 Ollie Wines 3 Connor Blakely 3 Nick Riewoldt 2.7 Jordan Lewis 2.3

2015 Mark Blicavs 4.8 Jordan Lewis 2.5 Ollie Wines 2.4 David Mundy 2.2 Callan Ward 2.1

2014 Jordan Lewis 3 Ollie Wines 2.2 Lenny Hayes 1.9 Callan Ward 1.8 Ty Vickery 1.7

Statistics supplied by Champion Data

[bornadog]

All I can say is what is the problem with 3rd man up and why is it being looked at?

[hujsh]

AFL: What's that? There's been a natural evolution in the game? BURN IT! BURN IT WITH FIRE!!!

[Bulldog Joe]

I do think the 3rd man up is a fair tactic.

I do believe that a rule tweak that affords protection to the designated ruckman from the 3rd man up is justified.

The article mentions the issue where Sandilands was suspended when he collected Griffiths in the pre-season. If any incidental contact to a third man up was simply play on it would be sufficient.

This would still pay a free for any deliberate block and unfair contact, but make the designated ruckman immune from the umpire interference, provided he simply played the ball as he should.

[1eyedog]

All I can say is what is the problem with 3rd man up and why is it being looked at?

Agreed it's always been the rule all through grass roots footy I'm not sure why this is being looked it. I fail to see how it can be an issue and cannot remember any serious injury resulting from it.

Only two allowed in a marking contest next?

[SonofScray]

Don't see the issue. Other than every time they try and address things the game gets more confusing and erratic. The changes in the ruck rules have already lead to a lottery in that front.

[hujsh]

Agreed it's always been the rule all through grass roots footy I'm not sure why this is being looked it. I fail to see how it can be an issue and cannot remember any serious injury resulting from it.

Only two allowed in a marking contest next?

Didn't you read the stats in the article? There's been a dramatic increase from 8% to 12%. You can't ignore those numbers:rolleyes:

[Mofra]

The issue is if we reduce the incidence of third man up that means there is effectively one more player from each team at the stoppage and that ruck taps will become less effective.
The AFL may well be changing the rule that helps avoid what they've been trying to combat for ages: a stoppage fest with ball up after ball up as the third man up if primarily utilized by teams to clear the immediate area and get the ball into space.

I understand what the AFL are trying to do (make the game easier to adjudicate) however the consequence is what they've been tweaking other rules for years to avoid (deliberate out of bounds rule, interchange cap, etc)

[Topdog]

Spot on Mofra, I'd hazard a guess that 3rd man up is happening more because there is so much congestion.

[bornadog]

Assuming the rule goes ahead, does that mean at every bounce of the ball, the umpire has to ask each team, who is going up in the ruck?

Every rule change has a consequence that the AFL never anticipates and changes the game for good.

[bornadog]

Tactic: Tom Boyd and Roughie are at the ball up. Roughie pretends to go up but Tom comes in from the side, or Bonti jumps and says he was the ruckman.? There will be lots of confusion as coaches will use different tactics to get around the lack of third man.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Wow, another stupid rule.

[hujsh]

The issue is if we reduce the incidence of third man up that means there is effectively one more player from each team at the stoppage and that ruck taps will become less effective.
The AFL may well be changing the rule that helps avoid what they've been trying to combat for ages: a stoppage fest with ball up after ball up as the third man up if primarily utilized by teams to clear the immediate area and get the ball into space.

I understand what the AFL are trying to do (make the game easier to adjudicate) however the consequence is what they've been tweaking other rules for years to avoid (deliberate out of bounds rule, interchange cap, etc)

We'll just play with the rules some more. We're this close to getting it perfect, I guarantee it. Just give us a few more changes and I swear it'll be 1985 again.

[bornadog]

We'll just play with the rules some more. We're this close to getting it perfect, I guarantee it. Just give us a few more changes and I swear it'll be 1985 again.

Yep a bunch of 80s players at the AFL wishing for the good old days.:rolleyes: