Welcome to the Bulldogs - Tim English

[GVGjr]

With our first pick we select Tim English

Welcome to the greatest club on the planet you lucky fellow.

[bulldogtragic]

Took us less than 30 seconds to select him. The best ruckman in the draft, at pick 19, that's not too shabby. Here's hoping for a long and successful career.

[The Doctor]

great pick

a player type we need and fills a very important position on our list but most importantly a very good footballer.

Welcome to the premiership team

[choconmientay]

Welcome to the dogs Tim.

http://www.theage.com.au/content/dam/images/g/s/r/o/n/4/image.related.articleLeadwide.620x349.gsrooj.png/1479426303135.jpg


https://youtu.be/R9UBcgRKTXk

[choconmientay]

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/1f50985bfd07fdaba096c2369a8d31b2?width=700

AFL Video: http://www.afl.com.au/video/2016-10-25/tomorrows-heroes-tim-english

[Eastdog]

Welcome to the Dogs Tim English.

[chef]

Welcome Tim. Happy with this pick.

[Webby]

Seems to use the ball well for a big man. Also looks to cover ground - engine wise. Runs and bounces ridiculously well for a ruckman, seems also to compete well for the ball on the ground - Ben Hudson style.

I'm not a huge advocate for drafting ruckmen early, but at pick 18, this kid represents no-brainer value. I feel that, ten years ago, before ruckmen went out of vogue, he'd have been a top 5 pick...

.... Just hope he's not homesick for Perth like a couple of other WA boys we've had recently!

However, continues a strong tradition of our club recruiting WA players.

[LostDoggy]

Welcome to the Premiers Big Fella :)

[ratsmac]

Welcome Tim.

I like the look of him in that clip. Moves really well for a 203cm ruckman.

Nickname - geezer

[jeemak]

Really love the kicking action and the quick thinking.

Concerned that six years have to go by before we can expect to learn whether he will cut the mustard in all likelihood. Like Webby has said, a few years ago someone like this would be easily top ten credentialed.

[Happy Days]

Congrats Tim; I didn't want to pick you because you're really skinny but now you're ours so obviously you're the biggest steal in the draft. Dal strikes again.

[KT31]

Welcome the Premiers Timmy.

[jeemak]

I've seen a few fearful references away from here about his need for development and similarities with Ayce Cordy. Something to keep in mind is he's 12kg heavier, albeit 3cm taller than Ayce was when he was drafted.

By the time Ayce was playing senior footy moderately regularly he was 20kg than when he was drafted, just 8kg heavier than English is now.

I don't know much about English, what I do know is he's not Ayce Cordy in terms of physique.

[bulldogtragic]

Is it just me, or does he resemble the early 1980's blonde David Bowie. The Thin White Ruck.

823 824

[Twodogs]

Welcome to the premiers big fella. Here's hoping you have a long and fruitful career with the Bulldogs. I hope you play plenty of footy early on and develop as quickly as our last few first round picks.

[Go_Dogs]

Could English play as a key defender?

[GVGjr]

Could English play as a key defender?

That would be an interesting idea given our preference for versatile players.

[Go_Dogs]

That would be an interesting idea given our preference for versatile players.

I haven't seen anywhere near enough of him to gauge how he may go competing 1:1 as a defender, but with his speed, repeat efforts, ground level ability, clean hands and decent kicking he has quite a few tools that would appeal in that role.

Look forward to watching him develop.

[LostDoggy]

Could English play as a key defender?

A revolutionary Ruck concept in a year or 2 with Boyd patrolling the front 3rd, Roughy the midfield and English the back third as a 3 way mobile Rucking division?

[comrade]

A revolutionary Ruck concept in a year or 2 with Boyd patrolling the front 3rd, Roughy the midfield and English the back third as a 3 way mobile Rucking division?

Just when you thought Bevo had taken the game in one direction (small, handball based), he zags the other way.

Genius.

[Go_Dogs]

A revolutionary Ruck concept in a year or 2 with Boyd patrolling the front 3rd, Roughy the midfield and English the back third as a 3 way mobile Rucking division?

I like it.

[KT31]

Is it just me, or does he resemble the early 1980's blonde David Bowie. The Thin White Ruck.

823 824

I get the below message when I click on the links.




KT31, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

[EasternWest]

I get the below message when I click on the links.

Guys he's finally onto us. What do we do now?

[bulldogtragic]

afl.com.au

THIS year's premiers have bucked the trend of steering away from big men early in the NAB AFL Draft, with the Western Bulldogs taking exciting West Australian Tim English with their first selection on Friday.

The Dogs grabbed the agile ruckman with pick 19 after he showed plenty of improvement over the past 18 months with WA and South Fremantle, where he played senior football in the WAFL this season.

English, who is lightly built but highly skilled for his size after honing his craft across half-back before a growth spurt, will no doubt be given time in the VFL to develop his body, and looms as a long-term project for the Bulldogs.

The club's recruiting manager Simon Dalrymple told AFL.com.au they were more than willing to take a chance on English if he was available, despite the snubbing of young ruckmen in the past.

"We always thought that there was a chance that he might slide down the order because of that reason, but we felt that he was too good a player to pass up," he said.

"At 205cm and with his ability with ball in hand, we thought it was really suitable to the way we play, so that made him an attractive option.

"We always pick the best player available, and our list is fairly well balanced, so we didn't think there was a pressing need, we just wanted to get good players."

The Dogs used three more selections on former basketballers Patrick Lipinski (No.28) and Lewis Young (No.49), and Fergus Greene (No.70).

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Looks like a young John Schultz with that hair.
I guess his recruitment means we are less likely to redraft Luke Goetz.
All the best of luck young Bulldog, Tim English.

[LostDoggy]

Apparently English has grown over 20 cm in the last 3 years and his brother is even taller. Could end up a monster height, even by modern day ruck standards.

[Topdog]

Apparently English has grown over 20 cm in the last 3 years and his brother is even taller. Could end up a monster height, even by modern day ruck standards.

Sandilands styles?

[Mantis]

Apparently English has grown over 20 cm in the last 3 years and his brother is even taller. Could end up a monster height, even by modern day ruck standards.

Yep, was a midfielder until the growth spurt.. Which is probably why his ground skills are pretty good.

[dog town]

I don't think he is the type of guy that is going to add a heap of muscle and lose his agility. Most of his ground level work appears to be done through a willingness to compete and clean hands rather than agility. As long as he can get to a point physically where he doesn't get battered around in the actual ruck contests then his ground level work is going to be a bonus. Liked watching the footage of him putting his head down and gut running in transition(both ways). Ruckmen as kids are basically taught to ruck then play a kick behind play so to see him trying to join in to link up or close space makes him pretty unique. Bevo would no doubt be liking the fact that he can get around and join in on team defence. The hands and ability at ground level sort of suits us too and is probably the reason we chased Kruzer so hard a couple of years ago.

Having said all of that I do think it is a risk taking a ruckmen. I qualify this by saying I have seen very little of English.

1- I don't think they are that hard to find if you really want one. Every trade period they are shopped around or there are guys showing a bit as back up rucks at other clubs. We ourselves are basically pushing an AA ruckmen out the door. They are there if you really want to go and grab one. You may have to pay a premium for them but that is pretty much what we have just done anyway.

2- I am not sure they are as influential as they once were. It's not that I don't rate ruckmen it is just teams have found a way to work without a dominant one. With third man up, video, team defence all of these things have slowly just whittled down the areas they can actually dominate the game. It is still better to have a gun ruckmen than not have one but it is not the end of the world if you don't. I would argue Gawn (2016) and Goldy (2015) played almost as well as any ruck for a long time but their teams didn't get a huge advantage for it. I am certainly pleased that English looks like he can add other dimensions to his game other than just ruck work. IMO they need to be either great at contested ground balls, able to mark around the ground or go forward. If they don't have any of these attributes and just stand and tap then it is a waste. Roughy took important marks all finals series and has improved his ground stuff...that's what I want from my ruckmen.

3- I back Dal in with his projections for English but as many people have mentioned history does show they are difficult to judge. At any level of any sport tall guys are the hardest to project on for the future. Everything I have seen of him suggests he has a bright future but there is that risk. I hope he is an absolute star and brings back the days of the dominant ruckmen.

[bulldogtragic]

afl.com.au


WEIGHTS and eating, eating and weights.

That's the schedule for the Western Bulldogs' top draft pick Tim English over the next few months.

The lightly built ruckman was seen as a steal for the premiers at pick 19 in Friday's NAB AFL draft, but the 205cm West Australian tips the scales at around 90kg, and knows exactly what's on the agenda when he arrives at Whitten Oval on Monday.

English told AFL.com.au in Sydney that the experience he gained late this season with South Fremantle in the WAFL was extremely beneficial, and he's prepared to bide his time developing in the VFL in 2017.

"Playing senior footy against bigger bodies certainly helped me with South Fremantle, given the size aspect is probably a weakness of mine," he said.

"Going up against stronger players helped me learn about my body positioning and things like that, so that developed my game in a way.

"I have to increase my physical size, so I'll be getting in the gym and making sure my diet is right once I get to Melbourne."

English has quality foot skills for a big man and the Dogs were ecstatic to see him still on the draft table when their first selection came up.

The quietly spoken big man has been likened to former West Coast champion Dean Cox because of his ability to cover territory and use the footy by hand and foot, and that's exactly the type of ruckman he hopes to be in the AFL.

"I want to provide that link up role around the ground, and do plenty of follow up work as well," he said.

"A big factor for the Bulldogs is contested possession, and obviously they've been really successful at that, and mobility is another one.

"They're two of my strengths that I can work on, so hopefully I can add something to the team."

While any young draftee faces a daunting task in adjusting to AFL level, English has the added pressure of going to this year's flag winners, but the teenager said he saw no downside in going to the premiers.

"I see it as a massive positive," he said.

"They've been really successful this year and seem to have a really strong group led by 'Bevo' (Luke Beveridge), who is such a well-respected coach.

"I met him for the first time at the draft, so I'm just excited to get there and get to work under him."

[Ghost Dog]

Very well coordinated, kicking short and long. Love the look of him. Well done Simon and team.
Work on the guns, hope he evolves into Wynd MK II. Bit of that about him.

[Twodogs]

Guys he's finally onto us. What do we do now?


As a joke Arthur Consn Doyle sent three of his friends a note saying 'they are onto us. Flee now' and never saw one of them again.

[Twodogs]

I like the video although I'm worried a bit by his chicken legs but his skills and second efforts look very exciting for a big guy

[choconmientay]

HS, John Ralph

The Western Bulldogs secured the best ruckman in the AFL draft when they selected Tim English

JON RALPH, Herald Sun
November 26, 2016 9:34pm
Subscriber only

LUKE Beveridge just doesn’t rate ruckmen. Or, to more specific, the premiership coach believes unless they do more than tap the ball they aren’t helping his side.

So it tells you plenty about the remarkable skill-set of 205cm ruckman Tim English that he is now wearing the colours of the premiership side.

In truth a player rated by the Dogs as the draft’s seventh-best player was such a bargain at pick 19 that they had to take him.
But a player who racks up possessions at will and runs a 10min 55sec 3km time-trial time is nothing like your old fashioned ruck dinosaur.

The South Fremantle 19-year-old was clearly the best ruckman in the draft and said as soon as he put on 8-10kg, he would try to make his way in the game.

“I am skinny at the moment but I want to get into the gym and work my way up from there.”

Bulldogs recruiter Simon Dalrymples sniffed the wind at the start of the month and decided to get on a plane to WA’s Pingelly, home of the English sheep and cattle farm.

“It was probably one where we thought we were a chance given the history of the draft (with ruck sliders) so we went to the family farm and said, ‘We are a chance here’,” Dalrymple said.


“Bevo has got some strong views on ruckmen. It was a good fit for the way we play and he joins in on offence. He is young and has to put on weight, but as shown by his numbers, he just loves getting the ball.

“It was great to meet mum and dad and you can see by dad’s frame, he is a strong man and mum is a schoolteacher. With Will (Minson) retiring ruck was a bit of a gap, but we weren’t going to make one up and the purchase price had to be right.”

The Dogs also added Northern Knights mid-forward Patrick Lepinski, a former basketballer coached by Marcus Bontempelli’s uncle.
English can’t quite believe he has landed at the premiers, having studied their most recent glories more than once.

“I am obviously really stoked with that, they are coming off a really successful season this year,’’ English said.

“I watched the Grand Final with a heap of friends and there was quite a bit going on and I had heard and knew about how great it was and I thought I would watch it all again.

“Obviously it’s a huge things (playing under Luke Beveridge), everyone talks about how respected he is and now he has a premiership under his belt.”

[bulldogtragic]

^^^

We ranked him as number 7 and got him at 19. No wonder Dal is very happy!

[KT31]

I was a bit concerned about picking up a ruckman so early in the draft but after reading each article and watching Englishes highlights packages I am quite excited about his future with us.

[bulldogtragic]

I was a bit concerned about picking up a ruckman so early in the draft but after reading each article and watching Englishes highlights packages I am quite excited about his future with us.

I'm not an officianado on rucks. But most drafted rucks seem to have been rucks most or all of their junior careers. But English spent much of his juniors as a midfielder and defender because he wasn't yet tall enough to play in the ruck. Hence why his skills are so good. It seems like such an uncommon circumstance that I can see his appeal to us at 7/19.

Already 90kg, I can see him getting towards 100kg by the end of next year. So by 2018 he should be AFEL playing weight. The more I watch his highlights the more I'm looking forward to watching him in the VFL next year with a view to what he might do in 2018.

[GVGjr]

Does anyone else thing Ralpy's article had a bit of Rocco about it?

[soupman]

I was against picking him for a few reasons, mostly in relation to when and how you recruit rucks rather than anything directly against him.

He does seem to have a very nice kicking style and his height surely means he is competitive in the ruck. If he does come through he could be quite a player. I'm looking forward to seeing him in action. Besides I trust Dalrymples judgement; he's already had two players taken with our first pick which I was not keen on (Dunkley and Smith) but very quickly won me over.

[Rocco Jones]

Does anyone else thing Ralpy's article had a bit of Rocco about it?

Do you mean how I rate ruckmen? I have been a visionary with that one!

[Twodogs]

Do you mean how I rate ruckmen? I have been a visionary with that one!


Visionary? More like delusional. :cool:

Like most bulldog supporters!

[bulldogtragic]

Was Tim English The Biggest Steal of the Draft? (afl.com.au)

WHEN you're the reigning premiership winning team you can afford to be a little bold when deciding who to take with your first selection in the NAB AFL Draft.

The Western Bulldogs have the list depth for a period of sustained success and adding the best ruckman in this year's draft , West Australian Tim English, with pick No.19, only enhances their chances of enjoying more silverware.

Hailing from Pingelly in the WA Wheatbelt, English has perhaps the highest ceiling of any player taken on Friday night and that's why Bulldogs recruiting manager Simon Dalrymple was so delighted to snare him.

However, AFL clubs are generally reluctant to use a first-round draft selection on a ruckman unless they really warrant that standing and the team has the patience to allow that player to develop at his own pace.

The Bulldogs had that luxury.

"We always thought that there was a chance that he might slide down the order because of that reason, but we felt that he was too good a player to pass up," Dalrymple said.

At 205cm, English is the best ruck prospect to come through the system since Collingwood selected Brodie Grundy with pick No.18 in the 2012 NAB AFL Draft.

English doesn't yet have the physical presence of Grundy, but what makes him special is his ability to cover the ground and play the role of a fourth midfielder and rack up possessions.

And the beauty for the Bulldogs is that they can let the 19-year-old develop in the VFL for the first couple of years, with premiership ruckmen Jordan Roughead and Tom Boyd to hold down the senior position in the meantime.

When English adds size to his upper body and can cope with the demands of AFL footy, the Bulldogs' will become even more versatile, with Roughead to push forward or back and Boyd to spend more time stationed inside 50.

For a player his size, English has a rare skillset.

The South Fremantle product can find the football at ground level, and often is seen scrapping at the bottom of packs, he backs himself to take the game on by hitting his targets by foot, and he can drift forward and take marks.

English, who has been compared to West Coast great Dean Cox, averaged 17 disposals in six games for South Fremantle's reserves side (he also had a run in the seniors) and used the footy at 75 per cent efficiency.

English's running ability has impressed, and at the NAB AFL Draft Combine he broke the 11-minute barrier in the 3km time-trial (running a final time of 10:55).

It has been a sharp rise for English, who was playing school football for Christ Church Grammar in Claremont as a 184cm midfielder three years ago.

A 20cm growth spurt in that time saw him rocket up the draft order, with English considered a candidate as a top-five pick earlier in the season.

Since the start of the season, English has added eight kilograms to his frame – moving from 84kg to 92kg in the lead up to the draft.

Although he has been been branded as a project player, English is hoping he will be able to push for senior football next year.

For now, the Bulldogs are thrilled with their long-term investment in a player who may turn out to be the best young ruckman to be drafted to an AFL club in the last 10 years.

[choconmientay]

Make a lot of sense.

I like the sounds of ..."biggest steal of the draft", ..."English has perhaps the highest ceiling of any player taken on Friday night" and that we have depth and the luxury to pick him ��

Go Dogs.

[Twodogs]

Since the start of the season, English has added eight kilograms to his frame – moving from 84kg to 92kg.


That sounds promising.

[KT31]

Since the start of the season, English has added eight kilograms to his frame – moving from 84kg to 92kg.



Since the start of the season, English has added eight kilograms to his frame – moving from 84kg to 92kg.

That sounds promising.

Promising and all great when he does it, yet The Lioness and my Mates call me a fat bastard when I do it.:D

[GVGjr]

Do you mean how I rate ruckmen? I have been a visionary with that one!

You sure have.

You've been strong on that for a long while, the coach seems to have very similar views to you and after you make another reference about English Ralphy writes it up. He might be a regular visitor here

[Twodogs]

Since the start of the season, English has added eight kilograms to his frame – moving from 84kg to 92kg.



Promising and all great when he does it, yet The Lioness and my Mates call me a fat bastard when I do it.:D

Get yourself into an AFL list then.


You fat bastard!:)

[bulldogtragic]

Just flicking through the weight of nimble enough AFL ruckman. They seem to be around 105-110kg, Tippett 104kg to Max Gawn at 111kg. With monsters like Sandilands being 120kg. So my guess is to keep his mobility and agility he would want to be around 105kg. He put on 8kg this year in a non-elite AFL environment, and has obviously kept his mobility and agility at 92kg. By mid next year he could well be hovering below/around 100kg, so his ambitions to push for selection might not be unrealistic. By round 1 2018, he could very well be around that 105kg Kurt Tippett like playing weight. He's certainly an exciting project player, but his current weight and recent increase are quite encouraging that he's not coming from a long way back like a 75-80kg project ruckman/KPP.

[GVGjr]

I think the club will work with him to add size and weight very slowly. It's wouldn't surprise me if he only added 5kg in the next 12 months. They have to do it in a manner that allows him to not lose anything with his running.

[boydogs]

Just flicking through the weight of nimble enough AFL ruckman. They seem to be around 105-110kg, Tippett 104kg to Max Gawn at 111kg

Plenty of them are below 105kg, I don't think 100kg is far off what we would be targeting for a bloke recruited for his mobility

Mark Blicavs 198cm 95kg
Jordan Roughead 200cm 96kg
Billy Longer 201cm 98kg
Matthew Lobbe 200cm 99kg
Ayce Cordy 204cm 99kg
Jarryd Roughead 193cm 100kg
Todd Goldstein 201cm 102kg
Sam Jacobs 202cm 102kg
Matthew Kreuzer 200cm 103kg
Tom Boyd 200cm 104kg

[Rocco Jones]

You sure have.

You've been strong on that for a long while, the coach seems to have very similar views to you and after you make another reference about English Ralphy writes it up. He might be a regular visitor here

Thanks for the kind words.

I like English for all the reasons I don't like having a traditional #1 ruckman.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Just flicking through the weight of nimble enough AFL ruckman. They seem to be around 105-110kg, Tippett 104kg to Max Gawn at 111kg. With monsters like Sandilands being 120kg. So my guess is to keep his mobility and agility he would want to be around 105kg. He put on 8kg this year in a non-elite AFL environment, and has obviously kept his mobility and agility at 92kg. By mid next year he could well be hovering below/around 100kg, so his ambitions to push for selection might not be unrealistic. By round 1 2018, he could very well be around that 105kg Kurt Tippett like playing weight. He's certainly an exciting project player, but his current weight and recent increase are quite encouraging that he's not coming from a long way back like a 75-80kg project ruckman/KPP.
His old man has a big frame, so hopefully he won't need steroids or an unnatural amount of gym time to fill out.

[Eastdog]

Really love the kicking action and the quick thinking.

Concerned that six years have to go by before we can expect to learn whether he will cut the mustard in all likelihood. Like Webby has said, a few years ago someone like this would be easily top ten credentialed.

Yes looking from that clip that was evident.

[choconmientay]

:):):) ... chuckle of the day (http://www.triplem.com.au/melbourne/sport/afl/news/2016/11/western-bulldogs-twitter-accidentally-drops-the-most-ironic-typo-ever/)

[EasternWest]

As a joke Arthur Consn Doyle sent three of his friends a note saying 'they are onto us. Flee now' and never saw one of them again.

Ha ha, wut?

[Bulldog4life]

With Tim's skills it wouldn't surprise if he plays in other positions as well as ruck.

[Twodogs]

Ha ha, wut?

Yep. He disappeared and no one ever saw him again.

The note did say quite clearly that they were onto them after all.

[Twodogs]

But that's not actually what I meant to ask.

Do we still have a ruck coach? Is that even a thing now?

[hujsh]

But that's not actually what I meant to ask.

Do we still have a ruck coach? Is that even a thing now?

Under the umbrella of stoppage coach I think. King can give some guidance if needed I guess (as he's not the stoppage coach anymore)

[Twodogs]

Under the umbrella of stoppage coach I think. King can give some guidance if needed I guess (as he's not the stoppage coach anymore)

Cheers. Maybe it's time to have a dedicated ruck coach. It's a very specialised position and we don't have a lot of experience in our ruck division with Minson gone.

English, Roughead, Campbell, Boyd and the other two kids are fairly new. Some specialist ruck tutoring might be handy.

[bulldogtragic]

Cheers. Maybe it's time to have a dedicated ruck coach. It's a very specialised position and we don't have a lot of experience in our ruck division with Minson gone.

English, Roughead, Campbell, Boyd and the other two kids are fairly new. Some specialist ruck tutoring might be handy.

How about Minno as a part time ruck coach and mentor (as Collingwood were going to do with him). He loves the club, the players love him. He's an All Australian ruckman with nearly 200 games experience and a contemporary understanding of how most current frontline rucks work in the league.

[Rocco Jones]

Cheers. Maybe it's time to have a dedicated ruck coach. It's a very specialised position and we don't have a lot of experience in our ruck division with Minson gone.

English, Roughead, Campbell, Boyd and the other two kids are fairly new. Some specialist ruck tutoring might be handy.

Specialsit ruck tutoring would need to conform to Beveridge's thoughts on the ruck. I couldn't think of anyone more un Bevo's mantra there than Minno.

I think we use the ruck really well, very smart in enhancing our strengths and hiding our weaknesses there.

[bulldogtragic]

Specialsit ruck tutoring would need to conform to Beveridge's thoughts on the ruck. I couldn't think of anyone more un Bevo's mantra there than Minno.

I think we use the ruck really well, very smart in enhancing our strengths and hiding our weaknesses there.

It's not necessarily Minno saying to them 'this is how I played and so should you'. But advice from a tap out/technical point of view and someone with contemporary understating of the main afl opposition rucks. So he's well placed to explain to our rucks how the different rucks play, give real time feedback, what the opposition rucks strengths and weaknesses are, how to beat them in the ruck contest and around the ground.

[Twodogs]

At first I thought we should probably look outside but Minson would bring a good understanding of our setups and ruck strengths and weaknesses. Not to put too fine a point on it he's in the unique position of having watched all of our last two years of football from a ruckmans POV, analysing set ups, critiquing ruck contests, how we react to opposition tactics, how the opposition react to ours. He's probably got a mountain of ideas pertaining to us.


Is he far enough removed though? Can he be tough enough with guys he was playing with last year?

[choconmientay]

We must have scored a bargain with Tim. Here is another article (https://au.sports.yahoo.com/afl/a/33356850/big-bulldog-pup-has-the-right-afl-tricks/#page1) about him to be more than just a traditional ruckman.

Big Bulldog pup has the right AFL tricks
Jason Phelan - AAP on November 29, 2016, 3:24 pm

Why would the Western Bulldogs pick a giant ruckman in the first round of the AFL draft when everybody knows Luke Beveridge prefers mobile rucks who can play multiple roles?

And why would they select a skinny, 205cm prospect when clubs are generally moving away from spending precious first-round picks on project ruckmen?

Because Tim English isn't a traditional ruckman.

The West Australian played most of his junior football as a midfielder before a growth spurt forced a positional change.

That should help English adjust to Beveridge's different approach to the role of the ruckman.

With less of a premium placed on winning the tap, the Dogs ranked 16th for hitouts in their premiership season and Jordan Roughead, their first-choice ruck, was a key-position player before Beveridge arrived at Whitten Oval.

English says he's up for the challenge.

"(The coach) does like mobile ruckmen and it's a huge honour that the (club's) list management have the faith in me to be able to play that role," English said.

"At South Fremantle, that was my role so hopefully it's similar here.

"Mobility is one of my strengths, so maybe I'm not (a traditional ruckman)."
Such is English's ability to cover the ground and win his own ball, he's been favourably compared to West Coast great Dean Cox.

"I can't really control what people's opinions are ... I'd be stoked if I could be half as good as Dean Cox," he said.

"Obviously it's a huge comparison, I'm pretty humbled by that, but I haven't really achieved anything yet."

Weighing just 92kg, English has significant work to do to get his body up to AFL standard and will likely spend 2017 in the gym and learning his craft at VFL level.

English and fellow draftees Patrick Lipinski, Lewis Young and Fergus Greene joined the Bulldogs' first-to-fourth-year players on Tuesday at Whitten Oval.

The 2016 premiership party will be over for the rest of the playing group when full pre-season training begins next week.

[Rocco Jones]

I'd much prefer our ruckmen be mentored by mobile types who found a way to compete. A lot of Will's strengths were based on his physical strength. I actually think we already have the perfect mentor, Jordan Roughead.

[bornadog]

I'd much prefer our ruckmen be mentored by mobile types who found a way to compete. A lot of Will's strengths were based on his physical strength. I actually think we already have the perfect mentor, Jordan Roughead.

Steven King isn't your mobile type. ;)

[hujsh]

If Bevo doesn't rate traditional ruckmen I'd be surprised if we invested in a specialist ruck coach.

[LostDoggy]

Luke Darcy?

[Rocco Jones]

Steven King isn't your mobile type. ;)

Yep but he is probably there for his knowledge on stoppages.

[Twodogs]

Luke Darcy?


Yeah. Was away from the club for a while but still immersed in the culture. While he loves the club he has no problem aiding a criticism when he thinks it warranted. Has been in the media so he's had a chance to study and analyse our ruck styles. I like it.

I also think that there is a bit of Darce about Tim English. Darce was an extra midfielder after the ruck contest because he spent a lot of time following Scott Wynd around and got involved in the midfield there. He had pretty good skills for a big guy, he was agile, was a nice kick. Had a bit of mongrel to, not to much but if you upset him it was best to keep away for 15 minutes opponent or teammate.

Maybe Darce would be a good mentor for Tim?

[Rocco Jones]

Jordan Roughead. Perfect mentor.

[Rocco Jones]

Ex-ruckmen to Beveridge are like video rental stores to modern entertainment.

[bulldogtragic]

Ex-ruckmen to Beveridge are like video rental stores to modern entertainment.

Like Gentleman John being around the club all year?

[Rocco Jones]

Like Gentleman John being around the club all year?

Do you really believe he is there to offer ruck advice?

He is clearly there to offer wisdom, leadership, promote loyalty, model being a great guy etc. He promotes the virtues that Beveridge wants. He isn't a ruck coach, he is a life coach.

[bulldogtragic]

Do you really believe he is there to offer ruck advice?

He is clearly there to offer wisdom, leadership, promote loyalty, model being a great guy etc. He promotes the virtues that Beveridge wants. He isn't a ruck coach, he is a life coach.

I think a part time ruck coach isn't a bad idea. Almost all clubs have one. Especially for English to learn the craft to develop into the player we want him to be. That's all.

[Rocco Jones]

I think a part time ruck coach isn't a bad idea. Almost all clubs have one. Especially for English to learn the craft to develop into the player we want him to be. That's all.

I agree with having one, just that it is crazy to go with traditional ruck coach pedagogy when Bevo is so alternative/unique with his theories.

Bevo is a bit of a revolutionist with the ruck (I'm claiming he stole my ideas!). Hard to find someone experienced in a skill set that is something so modern. Maybe the best man for the job is someone currently in the game. Roughy seems to get Bevo's ruck philosophy. Combined with King's knowledge while doing the stoppages.

By the way: you say 'almost all clubs'. One thing I love about the 2016 Bulldogs is we don't give a stuff about group think. Almost all clubs thought 168cm was too short to play AFL.

[bornadog]

I agree with having one, just that it is crazy to go with traditional ruck coach pedagogy when Bevo is so alternative/unique with his theories.

Bevo is a bit of a revolutionist with the ruck (I'm claiming he stole my ideas!). Hard to find someone experienced in a skill set that is something so modern. Maybe the best man for the job is someone currently in the game. Roughy seems to get Bevo's ruck philosophy. Combined with King's knowledge while doing the stoppages.

By the way: you say 'almost all clubs'. One thing I love about the 2016 Bulldogs is we don't give a stuff about group think. Almost all clubs thought 168cm was too short to play AFL.

I think Bevo's coaching philosophy was copied from Clarko.

[bulldogtragic]

I agree with having one, just that it is crazy to go with traditional ruck coach pedagogy when Bevo is so alternative/unique with his theories.

Bevo is a bit of a revolutionist with the ruck (I'm claiming he stole my ideas!). Hard to find someone experienced in a skill set that is something so modern. Maybe the best man for the job is someone currently in the game. Roughy seems to get Bevo's ruck philosophy.

Roughy was stood down from the leadership group to concentrate on his fitness, form and finding continuity. In his spare time he coaches a women's team. Whilst he's a very good egg, but giving him responsibility for English's development, a responsibility that usually falls to an assistant ruck coach may detract from his attention on his own body & form. Potentially impacting on Roughy himself and upon English if his development is impacted. I like what Roughy has done since being told to focus on himself and don't want him to jeopardise that, and I'm a tradionalist that likes player development in the hands of specialist assistant coaches. As a teammate and buddy/mentor that's cool. I'm sure Bevo can find a like minded assistant. I'm sure if you email the club your ruck philosophies that you can take your teaching to the next level!! (Our new forwardline coach started as a school teacher)

[Rocco Jones]

Roughy was stood down from the leadership group to concentrate on his fitness, form and finding continuity. In his spare time he coaches a women's team. Whilst he's a very good egg, but giving him responsibility for English's development, a responsibility that usually falls to an assistant ruck coach may detract from his attention on his own body & form. Potentially impacting on Roughy himself and upon English if his development is impacted. I like what Roughy has done since being told to focus on himself and don't want him to jeopardise that, and I'm a tradionalist that likes player development in the hands of specialist assistant coaches. As a teammate and buddy/mentor that's cool. I'm sure Bevo can find a like minded assistant. I'm sure if you email the club your ruck philosophies that you can take your teaching to the next level!! (Our new forwardline coach started as a school teacher)

Yep that's a fair enough call on Roughy. More of a buddy than a mentor for sure.

I agree a ruck coach could help, I am just finding the suggestions a bit old school i.e. Will Minson.

[bornadog]

Yep that's a fair enough call on Roughy. More of a buddy than a mentor for sure.

I agree a ruck coach could help, I am just finding the suggestions a bit old school i.e. Will Minson.

I thought Kingy did the ruck coaching, so I am not sure why others are calling for a part time ruck coach

[bulldogtragic]

I thought Kingy did the ruck coaching, so I am not sure why others are calling for a part time ruck coach

That's fine if he is, as a former big AFEL player. The discussion was around having someone or not.

[Rocco Jones]

I thought Kingy did the ruck coaching, so I am not sure why others are calling for a part time ruck coach

Yeah me too. Surely you can do stoppages and part time ruck duties. Can be a good thing having the same person as they are rather inter-connected. Maybe Bevo is so revolutionary he just sees ruck seamlessly a part of stoppages.

[Bulldog4life]

I think Bevo's coaching philosophy was copied from Clarko.

Wouldn't say copied. A ittle bit of Clarko in Bevo's coaching but a whole lot of Bevo's ideas.

[Topdog]

I think Bevo's coaching philosophy was copied from Clarko.

How has Bevo's style changed from when he was coaching St Bedes to premierships 8 years ago to now?

[Mofra]

How about Minno as a part time ruck coach and mentor (as Collingwood were going to do with him). He loves the club, the players love him. He's an All Australian ruckman with nearly 200 games experience and a contemporary understanding of how most current frontline rucks work in the league.
He's spending the next year travelling, hence he retired prior to the rookie draft

[bornadog]

How has Bevo's style changed from when he was coaching St Bedes to premierships 8 years ago to now?

My comment was about ruck philosophy, don't take my comment out of context.

Bevo has his ideas and has also picked up ideas over the years from Malthouse and Clarko and then formulated his own plans.

[bornadog]

Wouldn't say copied. A ittle bit of Clarko in Bevo's coaching but a whole lot of Bevo's ideas.

We were talking RUCKS. Bevo was the backline coach at Hawthorn.

[Dancin' Douggy]

English seems to have a touch of the Robert Murphy about him.
Very articulate and thoughtful.
Could become another cult hero.
Maybe the 'Gentleman' tag will be passed on.

'Gentleman' Tim English.

Tall blonde articulate well spoken and well mannered ruck man...................... And Brownlow medalist no doubt.

[Doc26]

English seems to have a touch of the Robert Murphy about him.
Very articulate and thoughtful.
Could become another cult hero.
Maybe the 'Gentleman' tag will be passed on.

'Gentleman' Tim English.

Tall blonde articulate well spoken and well mannered ruck man...................... And Brownlow medalist no doubt.

Not to mention that he moves very well and looks a good user of the ball.

Was getting pretty excited watching the brief footage of him put up by the Club at our most recent training session.
Looks a special unit.

[bulldogtragic]

Not to mention that he moves very well and looks a good user of the ball.

Was getting pretty excited watching the brief footage of him put up by the Club at our most recent training session.
Looks a special unit.

Ditto. I just watched the footage too. I think i would describe English as a midfielder who can ruck because of his height. He moves really well and his kicking and technique is very sound, and looks every bit a midfielder. He has the added benefit of being able to ruck. If Bevo could create a prototype ruckman, I think English would be exactly it.

[boydogs]

Ditto. I just watched the footage too. I think i would describe English as a midfielder who can ruck because of his height. He moves really well and his kicking and technique is very sound, and looks every bit a midfielder. He has the added benefit of being able to ruck. If Bevo could create a prototype ruckman, I think English would be exactly it.

The fact Bevo gave Ayce Cordy so much opportunity suggests he really rates the mobile types

[1eyedog]

Ditto. I just watched the footage too. I think i would describe English as a midfielder who can ruck because of his height. He moves really well and his kicking and technique is very sound, and looks every bit a midfielder. He has the added benefit of being able to ruck. If Bevo could create a prototype ruckman, I think English would be exactly it.

He is magnificient off both feet and his awareness is midfielder-like no doubt.

Great to get a top 10 player for pick 19.

[Rocket Science]

An interesting little aside on Trade Radio this arvo with one of the Crows' former recruiting staffers.

Their recruiting team were dead keen on Tim apparently, had him pegged as the best 2016 draft-eligible ruckman in the country and a ten-year player with a view to spending their first rounder on him ... and then it came time for Don Pyke's input and the coach dismissed their advice and killed it because he wanted someone who'd step in and contribute sooner, so they took Gallucci @ #16, leaving Tim to us @ #19.

Gallucci's a smart little player but if English goes on to achieve all we hope I'll happily spare a little thought for Pyke periodically along the way.

[Murphy'sLore]

My heart stopped when I saw the Tim English thread pop up in the middle of trade week -- you scared me, RS.

[hujsh]

My heart stopped when I saw the Tim English thread pop up in the middle of trade week -- you scared me, RS.
SAME!

God dammit it RS. Don't scare us

[bulldogtragic]

FFS.

Shocktober PTSD moment.

[Rocket Science]

Hahaa. Very well, to make amends I'll go and revive the 'Welcome to the Bulldogs Mitch Honeychurch' thread now.

Ain't it delicious though knowing every time English wins an All-Australian gong we'll have Don frigging Pyke to thank for it.

https://preview.ibb.co/kSWyKU/Screen_Shot_2018_10_10_at_2_43_06_PM.png (https://ibb.co/nOFQzU)

Also, why is his head shaped like banana? But I'm digressing ...

[The Doctor]

Hahaa. Very well, to make amends I'll go and revive the 'Welcome to the Bulldogs Mitch Honeychurch' thread now.

Ain't it delicious though knowing every time English wins an All-Australian gong we'll have Don frigging Pyke to thank for it.

https://preview.ibb.co/kSWyKU/Screen_Shot_2018_10_10_at_2_43_06_PM.png (https://ibb.co/nOFQzU)

Also, why is his head shaped like banana? But I'm digressing ...

Did he run into Danny Southern?

[divvydan]

I get where Pyke is coming from though. They were in a premiership window and solid ruckmen can be traded for most years. Either pay a higher price to develop one now or wait and few years and take a Jacobs replacement then. The only downside is if the ruckman develops like Grundy and then becomes a potential matchwinner and unattainable later on.

[hujsh]

How did Woofers feel about what was possibly English's first game as the No.1 ruck (Boyd and/or Roughead probably taking the no 1 role in previous years)?

I feel like he did pretty well but don't have a great feel for the ruck myself so I was curious how the rest of you felt.

[bornadog]

How did Woofers feel about what was possibly English's first game as the No.1 ruck (Boyd and/or Roughead probably taking the no 1 role in previous years)?

I feel like he did pretty well but don't have a great feel for the ruck myself so I was curious how the rest of you felt.


I thought he did ok, although beaten for hitouts, but did well around the ground. Still gets pushed out of the contest a bit, but he has only played 10 games and still learning.

[Mofra]

I was very pleased with his second efforts.
I like rucks who do the little thing you don't get stats for - recover quickly after the tap contest, blocks, etc. It's a lot harder than it looks and English's recovery from the contest is elite.

We know he's tall and uses the ball so well by foot but the recovery aspect is what has me most excited and to me that's the greatest indicator of his likely future success.
Ben Hudson was never out of the contest until the ball was cleared and English does that same thing.
It seems to come naturally to him which isn't a given even in the best rucks (Minson had to be taught).

[GVGjr]

I was very pleased with his second efforts.
I like rucks who do the little thing you don't get stats for - recover quickly after the tap contest, blocks, etc. It's a lot harder than it looks and English's recovery from the contest is elite.

We know he's tall and uses the ball so well by foot but the recovery aspect is what has me most excited and to me that's the greatest indicator of his likely future success.
Ben Hudson was never out of the contest until the ball was cleared and English does that same thing.
It seems to come naturally to him which isn't a given even in the best rucks (Minson had to be taught).

The only thing I thought he did poorly last week was his marking. He got clear grabs at the footy a few times even against smaller opponents and yet didn't hold on to them.

In time he should become a very difficult ruckman for opposition teams to counter.

[bornadog]

The only thing I thought he did poorly last week was his marking. He got clear grabs at the footy a few times even against smaller opponents and yet didn't hold on to them.

In time he should become a very difficult ruckman for opposition teams to counter.

The other thing I thought he should have taken advantage of, was to grab the ball in the air out of the ruck. He had a few opportunities to do it, but decided to tap it down.

[Ghost Dog]

Ditto. I just watched the footage too. I think i would describe English as a midfielder who can ruck because of his height. He moves really well and his kicking and technique is very sound, and looks every bit a midfielder. He has the added benefit of being able to ruck. If Bevo could create a prototype ruckman, I think English would be exactly it.

He takes off fast. That last intercept and kick into 50, I was surprised how quick he sped up. He doesn't have it in his head he is just a ruckman. Able to flick the switch into other roles wonderfully.

[Go_Dogs]

As he gets more confidence in his body and learns how to use it he'll be unstoppable. At the moment he still gets outbodied and his hands aren't quite as sharp in the contest (or weren't last week) as I'd hoped to see.

He's coming along nicely, but think it's still a few years before we see Timmy reach his potential.

[Ghost Dog]

I will put it out there. I don't think Tim should be playing in the ruck. He's so quick and agile, his strengths are in the forward line. Let's just lose the ruck battle and throw him up forward.

[bornadog]

I will put it out there. I don't think Tim should be playing in the ruck. He's so quick and agile, his strengths are in the forward line. Let's just lose the ruck battle and throw him up forward.

How do you come to the conclusion his strengths are in the forward line?

[FrediKanoute]

He needs time. In another era of football, he would have played as the second ruck behind a big experienced ruckman and then come into his own once that ruck retired. He would have been held up by the competition as the prototype ruckman.

The reality is today that there is only one ruck. Either we let him rot in the reserves playing against weaker opposition, or wethrow him in at the deep end where he learns a lesson every week.

I think the strategy with him is sound.

[Ghost Dog]

How do you come to the conclusion his strengths are in the forward line?

Do you remember a time when I said Picken should be a forward and you told me I was out of my mind?
The kid is seriously tall, agile, skilled and has a great kicking action. His strength is in the air, let him use it. He can grab the thing, kick it and run. Nothing says he cannot be a forward. Why couldn't he succeed in the forward line?

[jeemak]

English should be kept in the ruck, but the conundrum is he needs a bigger bodied relief ruck (i.e. Tom Boyd or Trengove and not Schache) to help him out, and this stifles our development of Schache as a forward.

I actually believe that we can play all of Schache, Boyd/Trangove and English in the same team, we just need to get the rotations through the middle right.

Ultimately English will continue to get too fatigued without a bigger body hammering into his opponent for a few minutes a quarter at least. When forwards like Gowers are barely tackling what do we lose by playing a bigger forward who probably tackles just as much in his place?

[jeemak]

Do you remember a time when I said Picken should be a forward and you told me I was out of my mind?
The kid is seriously tall, agile, skilled and has a great kicking action. His strength is in the air, let him use it. He can grab the thing, kick it and run. Nothing says he cannot be a forward. Why couldn't he succeed in the forward line?

English has had four of five opportunities to finalise good work with goals this season and has fluffed every one of them. Possibly playing him forward for a bit more time might increase his confidence and he might execute, or it might keep going the way it's going.

He needs less fatigue and more opportunity to help out between the arcs to start with. If he builds his confidence doing that then he'll likely go forward from time to time and benefit from that confidence. Putting him forward in my view will make it worse for him.

I was like BAD as far as Picken being a forward was concerned, I also didn't think Boyd could be an all Australian back flanker at the time. The game plan made these two what they turned out to be, not sure our current game plan helps anyone transitioning from ruck to forward, but happy to be surprised.

[Ghost Dog]

Play him and Naughton in attack. Huge defensive headache.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Do you remember a time when I said Picken should be a forward and you told me I was out of my mind?
The kid is seriously tall, agile, skilled and has a great kicking action. His strength is in the air, let him use it. He can grab the thing, kick it and run. Nothing says he cannot be a forward. Why couldn't he succeed in the forward line?

A la Paul Salmon.

[bornadog]

Do you remember a time when I said Picken should be a forward and you told me I was out of my mind?
The kid is seriously tall, agile, skilled and has a great kicking action. His strength is in the air, let him use it. He can grab the thing, kick it and run. Nothing says he cannot be a forward. Why couldn't he succeed in the forward line?

No I don't remember that, and if I did say that well I was wrong.

However, with Naughton, Schache, Tom Boyd in the team, I don't think we should be looking at English as a key forward. We are desperate for a young developing ruckman and English at 205cm is our best prospect.

[Mofra]

I will put it out there. I don't think Tim should be playing in the ruck. He's so quick and agile, his strengths are in the forward line. Let's just lose the ruck battle and throw him up forward.
He spent a fair chunk of pre-season up forward. He just seems a year or two away from being physically developed enough to take the big grabs.

I actually think he's shown promise, although he's getting smashed in the hit outs. He's starting to find a lot of the ball and is one of our best tacklers so his second efforts are there.

[The Pie Man]

How do you lose hit outs so comprehensively - and not have even one hit out to advantage - when you're 205 cm? He's 3 cm taller than Grundy.

His technique needs serious work - fix it and be better in the centre *right now*, play forward if he can or in the VFL.

Sure, he's got to develop - but why at the expense of our senior team when we have mature bodies ready to play stuck at VFL level. Isn't that what the level down is there for?

*EDIT - this is more a crack at the selection, not a young kid. I think he'll be a wonderful player down the track. He's just not ready.

[Sedat]

How do you lose hit outs so comprehensively - and not have even one hit out to advantage - when you're 205 cm? He's 3 cm taller than Grundy.

His technique needs serious work - fix it and be better in the centre *right now*, play forward if he can or in the VFL.

Sure, he's got to develop - but why at the expense of our senior team when we have mature bodies ready to play stuck at VFL level. Isn't that what the level down is there for?

*EDIT - this is more a crack at the selection, not a young kid. I think he'll be a wonderful player down the track. He's just not ready.
Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t his U18 hitout numbers just as low? I wonder if he will be more like a Dean Cox around the ground ruck-rover type more than a Sandilands ruck stoppage king type. Would be nice if he could do both like a Gawn type.

[The Pie Man]

Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t his U18 hitout numbers just as low? I wonder if he will be more like a Dean Cox around the ground ruck-rover type more than a Sandilands ruck stoppage king type. Would be nice if he could do both like a Gawn type.

I wasn’t aware of that - could that be why he slipped in the draft? (and not just the fear of wasting early picks on young skinny tall guys)

Without looking up stats, reckon Cox was still decent in the actual ruck contest.

[Bulldog4life]

I wasn’t aware of that - could that be why he slipped in the draft? (and not just the fear of wasting early picks on young skinny tall guys)

Without looking up stats, reckon Cox was still decent in the actual ruck contest.

According to Fox Footy English played the majority of his junior career as a midfielder, before a growth spurt saw him grow 20 centimetres in two years. He was a ruckman by default....So he is still learning the caper.

[Axe Man]

I get that he is going to be pushed aside around the ground and at boundary throw-ins, but I can't quite work out why he doesn't get his hand to more centre bounces where the opposition ruckman is unable to out muscle him. Is his leap just not very big or is it a technique thing?

[The bulldog tragician]

According to Fox Footy English played the majority of his junior career as a midfielder, before a growth spurt saw him grow 20 centimetres in two years. He was a ruckman by default....So he is still learning the caper.
That is a lot of centimetres!!!!

[The Pie Man]

I get that he is going to be pushed aside around the ground and at boundary throw-ins, but I can't quite work out why he doesn't get his hand to more centre bounces where the opposition ruckman is unable to out muscle him. Is his leap just not very big or is it a technique thing?

Same - wondering if it’s purely timing or his vertical leap ain’t great...or a bit of both.

[Ghost Dog]

Say hello to the new Simon Beasley.

[Webby]

I get that he is going to be pushed aside around the ground and at boundary throw-ins, but I can't quite work out why he doesn't get his hand to more centre bounces where the opposition ruckman is unable to out muscle him. Is his leap just not very big or is it a technique thing?

This is down to guile and technique. Physics also plays a big part. Simon Madden (the greatest ruckman I’ve seen) commented that early in his career, despite being much taller, more athletic and having a better leap, simply could not get his hand on the ball at centre bounces against an ageing Sammy Newman.

Ruckmen jump early, jump at each other and there’s plenty of nuances and technique. With that in mind, weight and bulk comes into play. English has some filling out to do and some bulk to put on.

Despite being more know as a media performer in later years, Sam Newman was a very highly regarded ruck coach for many years. One of the scores of ruckmen he helped was our own Andrew Purser - who regularly gave up inches to his opponents, yet was rarely beaten. In fact, Madden himself sought Newman out for coaching as soon as he’d retired and says his rucking massively improved as a result.

English is still very raw and very green.

Finally, I clearly recall watching Grundy playing reserves when he was English’s age. Check the records, it was the day we had our break through win against the Swans in Sydney. The one Bob Murphy described at the time as the “best win ever.” Grundy was older and more physically developed than English is now, yet was still learning his craft in the VFL. Some important context, I think.

Max Gawn’s development was a very, very similar story.

[Axe Man]

This is down to guile and technique. Physics also plays a big part. Simon Madden (the greatest ruckman I’ve seen) commented that early in his career, despite being much taller, more athletic and having a better leap, simply could not get his hand on the ball at centre bounces against an ageing Sammy Newman.

Ruckmen jump early, jump at each other and there’s plenty of nuances and technique. With that in mind, weight and bulk comes into play. English has some filling out to do and some bulk to put on.

Despite being more know as a media performer in later years, Sam Newman was a very highly regarded ruck coach for many years. One of the scores of ruckmen he helped was our own Andrew Purser - who regularly gave up inches to his opponents, yet was rarely beaten. In fact, Madden himself sought Newman out for coaching as soon as he’d retired and says his rucking massively improved as a result.

English is still very raw and very green.

Finally, I clearly recall watching Grundy playing reserves when he was English’s age. Check the records, it was the day we had our break through win against the Swans in Sydney. The one Bob Murphy described at the time as the “best win ever.” Grundy was older and more physically developed than English is now, yet was still learning his craft in the VFL. Some important context, I think.

Max Gawn’s development was a very, very similar story.

The ruck technique thing makes sense - I'm about 1 foot short of being a ruckman so I don't have much personal experience to draw from!

Just on Grundy - I think I've mentioned this before but English is not all that comparable to Grundy at the same age. English was drafted as a 19 year old it must be remembered.

That win against Sydney was in 2015 I believe, when Grundy had just turned 21 and was in the middle of putting together a 19 game season, having already played 22 games over the previous 2 seasons.

English will be 22 in August and just played his 13th game.

I don't think any sensible person would not give Tim plenty of allowance for his lack of age, but more importantly lack of experience and physical development. He is odds on to be an excellent ruckman but is likely to take him a little bit longer than Grundy.

Agree that Gawn probably has more in common with English, although his early career was significantly injury affected I believe.

[Twodogs]

How do you come to the conclusion his strengths are in the forward line?


Do you remember a time when I said Picken should be a forward and you told me I was out of my mind?
The kid is seriously tall, agile, skilled and has a great kicking action. His strength is in the air, let him use it. He can grab the thing, kick it and run. Nothing says he cannot be a forward. Why couldn't he succeed in the forward line?


A la Paul Salmon.

Or Luke Darcy. He was quite good early doors playing in a forward pocket and providing a few minutes relief to Scott Wynd every now and then. As a result he was ready to assume the full time ruck role by the time Wynd retired. But I'm happy to see English develop in the ruck.


He spent a fair chunk of pre-season up forward. He just seems a year or two away from being physically developed enough to take the big grabs.

I actually think he's shown promise, although he's getting smashed in the hit outs. He's starting to find a lot of the ball and is one of our best tacklers so his second efforts are there.

In the last couple of centre bounces on friday night English didn't leap but stayed on his feet and was first to tackle whatever Collingwood player got his hands on the ball first. It's a tactic that Bevo used whenever last year when Dunkley and Jong had to compete at centre bounces.

[Cyberdoggie]

I get that he is going to be pushed aside around the ground and at boundary throw-ins, but I can't quite work out why he doesn't get his hand to more centre bounces where the opposition ruckman is unable to out muscle him. Is his leap just not very big or is it a technique thing?

Technique.

I have watched him closely and he does have a good leap, but he so often mistimes his leap, fresh airs his tap or on the rare occasions he does get his hand to it, he just hits it forward and straight to the opposition.

His ruckwork is really poor, and it gets worse as the game goes on and he gets tired of getting pantsed.

I don't think it is helping that we are throwing him in the deep end. You are not learning when your are hopelessly out of your depth.

It's like being a c grade cricketer and asked to play for the firsts. What possible learning do you get from that experience if it's clearly a grade too far ahead. Tim is only going to lose confidence and struggle.


He needs some time playing for Footscray so he can hone his craft.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Technique.

I have watched him closely and he does have a good leap, but he so often mistimes his leap, fresh airs his tap or on the rare occasions he does get his hand to it, he just hits it forward and straight to the opposition.

His ruckwork is really poor, and it gets worse as the game goes on and he gets tired of getting pantsed.

I don't think it is helping that we are throwing him in the deep end. You are not learning when your are hopelessly out of your depth.

It's like being a c grade cricketer and asked to play for the firsts. What possible learning do you get from that experience if it's clearly a grade too far ahead. Tim is only going to lose confidence and struggle.


He needs some time playing for Footscray so he can hone his craft.

Quite often he seems to get his hand to the ball first but the other ruckman will then make contact with the ball (or his hand) and are able to direct it where they want it to go.

I’ve pulled out the AFL app a few times and noted that even when the opposition ruckman are making contact with his hand that they get credited with the tap (presumably as they are being seen as having more impact on where the tap goes?).

[lemmon]

Quigley at Bigfooty puts together pretty good mock drafts, he was one of the few to have English sliding into the second round.

It's an interesting read:

Call me old fashioned but I actually like my rucks to actually be able to ruck. Its great if they might qualify to be a C grade midfielder like English does but ultimately you want to the win the taps and English is poor in that aspect of the game. He is overaged and weak in the body and often does not even compete in the ruck contest. I usually rate rucks ahead of most people, including the AFL recruitment community, but I just am not onboard with English.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/quigleys-2016-draft-rankings.1152444/

[Bulldog4life]

Quigley at Bigfooty puts together pretty good mock drafts, he was one of the few to have English sliding into the second round.

It's an interesting read:


https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/quigleys-2016-draft-rankings.1152444/

Hopefully Kingy is helping him out.

[The Pie Man]

Got pushed out of a marking contest early in the 1st qtr and it looked like another long day ahead.

Which was true for other reasons - thought Tim was much better today.

Had to find something positive...what a dirty day

[Axe Man]

Straight swap for Nat Fyfe or no deal Freo.

DOCKERS TO HAVE ‘MASSIVE CRACK’ AT WA DOG (https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trade-whispers-fremantle-circling-tim-english-tim-kelly-knocks-back-cats-oneyear-offer-melbourne-looks-to-alex-keath/news-story/65d5529a0100e9ee85b36cdaf09a5207?fbclid=IwAR2Ei16iZQkJQrx0gd 2_fEnbDEwUgAR1IZm7Ln-oXC8-DYuu_eGEgsAq9hk)

Western Bulldogs ruckman Tim English has been earmarked as a player of the future.

But whether or not he’ll play his best footy at Whitten Oval is up for debate.

According to Fox Footy senior AFL reporter Tom Morris, Fremantle is keen to secure the West Australian native, despite English still having a year to run on his contract.

“He’s signed until the end of next year and the Bulldogs really rate him,” Morris told On The Couch.

“But I think Freo is going to have a massive crack at getting him at the end of this year.”

The Dockers have had the luxury of Aaron Sandilands leading their ruck charges for more than a decade, but the 36-year-old hasn’t featured at all in 2019.

Rory Lobb has been shouldering the load, while 20-year-old Sean Darcy is also highly rated.

But luring English back home to Perth could ensure Fremantle has another generational ruckman.

[chef]

Would we be that surprised if he chose to leave?

[GVGjr]

I think English is well settled with us and I'm not overly concerned that another club might pinch him. We are shopping around so I suspect it's full on.

They will need to pay overs to get him so lets see if an actual offer is on the table because it would need to be a good one

[ledge]

Love how a reporter covers his arse by saying “I think” in other words he has made up a story to be relevant.

[bulldogtragic]

Nothing story. We'd love Harris Andrews, or Ben Brown, or Jeremy Cameron, or Connor Rozze. They'd love English. So what Morris?

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D_OfSeOVUAAe2jr.jpg

[Axe Man]

Imagine how good English is going to be once he learns to use his third arm to full advantage!

https://i.postimg.cc/Njh5ZB6Q/704187-lp.jpg (https://postimg.cc/WhnNkRYy)

[1eyedog]

Quaid, start the reactor. Free Mars!

[Twodogs]

Imagine how good English is going to be once he learns to use his third arm to full advantage!

https://i.postimg.cc/Njh5ZB6Q/704187-lp.jpg (https://postimg.cc/WhnNkRYy)

Is that Thing from the Addams Family that Tim is playing on?

[Axe Man]

HOW TIM ENGLISH NEARLY LANDED AT COLLINGWOOD (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/04/16/how-tim-english-nearly-landed-at-collingwood/)

Former Collingwood recruiter Matt Rendell says Bulldogs ruckman Tim English would have been a Magpie, were it not for a misunderstanding.

A towering talent from the West Australian wheat belt, English was drafted to Whitten Oval with a first round selection five years ago.

He could have pulled on the black and white 12 months earlier, however.

“If you’re a Collingwood supporter, you’ll want to turn off for about two minutes,” Rendell told SEN’s Dwayne’s World on Thursday afternoon.

“Tim English went to a Catholic school in Perth, and one of our part-time recruiters was a teacher there.

“He said, ‘Can you come and have a look at this bloke? He’s got some talent, he’s a big skinny kid, (but) I don’t know if he’s competitive enough. Come and have a look, and see what you think’.

“I go over and watch him and I thought, ‘He’s got some serious talent, (and) you’re right, he’s not quite competitive enough.’”

Rendell was nevertheless sold on the 18-year-old, but a hurdle loomed with the season coming to a close.

English was yet to play a state league game, ruling him ineligible for draft selection under present rules.

“I said, ‘Okay, here’s what we’re going to do. There’s one game to go in the WAFL, what’s his home team?’” Rendell recalled.

“He lived in Claremont. Claremont weren’t in the finals, they had one game to go.

“I said, ‘Take him down on Thursday once all the paperwork’s in, we’ll qualify him and he can play the game’.

“‘I’ll come over and watch. Hopefully he doesn’t go too good, and we’ll take him as a rookie in the draft’.”

The twist came too late, with Rendell’s scout in Perth informing him on the Thursday that the paperwork had been knocked back.

Before boarding at Christ Church Grammar School in Perth, English lived on a farm with his family in the South Fremantle catchment, and had not lived in Claremont for the three years required to switch his allegiance.

“So Claremont can’t play him. South Freo weren’t in the finals but they’ve finished training, (and) it’s a Thursday, so he doesn’t play on the weekend,” Rendell added.

“(So) I can’t pick him. The next year he plays at South Fremantle, kills it and gets picked what, (19) in the draft. I go, ‘You’ve got to be kidding me’.

“Poor Collingwood supporters, they missed out on Tim English because of that.”

English has kicked eight goals in four games for the Bulldogs this season, his game rejuvenated with veteran recruit Stefan Martin shouldering the majority of the ruck contests.


https://i.postimg.cc/PJJsbnf9/swedish-chef.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[bornadog]

I hate listening to Rendell, he is really passed it

[Mofra]

I hate listening to Rendell, he is really passed it
To be honest, I really enjoyed reading that.

[bulldogtragic]

Better yarn if it was some u/18’s coach over there using their connections with the league to stop it.

[bornadog]

To be honest, I really enjoyed reading that.

The guy is up himself. As Collingwood supporters say, Rendell constantly banging on about how they should have listened to him.

(Ps Article was fine, just on the radio/TV can't stand him)

[Hotdog60]

I must admit On the match Committee with Sam Hargreaves and Matt Rendell, Randell gives the appearance that he's being held there at gun point. Doesn't look that interested.

[Cyberdoggie]

I must admit On the match Committee with Sam Hargreaves and Matt Rendell, Randell gives the appearance that he's being held there at gun point. Doesn't look that interested.

I think that's just his personality, bit of a cynic type, sounds a bit of a miser like Ross Lyon.
I don't mind listening to him because he's a bit different and doesn't really hold back. You know eventually he is going to
say something that others wouldn't say and is of interest.

[GVGjr]

To be honest, I really enjoyed reading that.

He's still got a lot to offer. He's worth worth listening to

[comrade]

I'm glad Collingwood's dodgy attempt to tamper with the draft didn't work out.

[Twodogs]

Better yarn if it was some u/18’s coach over there using their connections with the league to stop it.

Do you have a particular poster, sorry person, in mind? ;)

[Axe Man]

Someone has had some fun on Tim's English's Wiki page:

https://i.postimg.cc/fRw6YtTq/Capture.png (https://postimg.cc/bsBChvn1)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_English

[EasternWest]

Someone has had some fun on Tim's English's Wiki page:

https://i.postimg.cc/fRw6YtTq/Capture.png (https://postimg.cc/bsBChvn1)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_English

After the Essendon game when he played really well in 2020 and was being interviewed on the ground, my partner said "what a beautifully spoken man who looks like a serial killer". (I'm paraphrasing but it was something like that)

[angelopetraglia]

What is the inside word or everyone's gut feel in regards to his future. Does he sign and remain a Bulldog? Does he go back home to WA? What is going to happen?

Based on his development and what we saw tonight, gee whiz I would be gutted if he left.

[Vred]

What is the inside word or everyone's gut feel in regards to his future. Does he sign and remain a Bulldog? Does he go back home to WA? What is going to happen?

Based on his development and what we saw tonight, gee whiz I would be gutted if he left.

His ''WA based'' missus just bought a new house in Melbourne down in Morn-pen, according to her own Instagram.

Gut is he stays, club is caving to all his ''I want to be a solo ruck'' demands, what more does he want?

[Go_Dogs]

I think he stays too.

He was excellent on the weekend. That was a Brownlow Medal type ruckman performance. He’s becoming like Joker in the NBA.

[Testekill]

He's really coming into his own, if he can ever get his tapwork up to the standard of an average ruck then he'll be the best ruck in the league.

[bornadog]

Also 4th in AFL for HTA


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ft-gbGZakAA70Ch?format=jpg&name=medium

[Dazza]

Killing it at the moment

[Scorlibo]

Also 4th in AFL for HTA


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ft-gbGZakAA70Ch?format=jpg&name=medium

And...
#1 in the AFL for Player Ratings (all positions, Bont is #2)
#1 in the AFL for Supercoach score (all positions)

He's come a long, long way from the days where I'd call him Bambi at games. Has he hit his ceiling, or can he get even better?

[bornadog]

And...
#1 in the AFL for Player Ratings (all positions, Bont is #2)
#1 in the AFL for Supercoach score (all positions)

He's come a long, long way from the days where I'd call him Bambi at games. Has he hit his ceiling, or can he get even better?

I don't think he has peaked yet, so yes, he can get even better.

[Grantysghost]

Bevo might be right about rucks then - we still suck and he's the best in the league ;)

[EasternWest]

And...
#1 in the AFL for Player Ratings (all positions, Bont is #2)
#1 in the AFL for Supercoach score (all positions)

He's come a long, long way from the days where I'd call him Bambi at games. Has he hit his ceiling, or can he get even better?

Yeah I think he can.

[azabob]

For mine stat 2 and stat 3 are the most important.

Next aim should be #1 ruck for contested marks and #1 ruck for HTA.

[Happy Days]

He could do all that stuff already though. The HTA numbers and percentages are where the real improvement has come.

Still trying to figure out why in the hell he was spelled for so long in the 4th last week.

[bornadog]

Bevo might be right about rucks then - we still suck and he's the best in the league ;)
True statement

[jeemak]

He could do all that stuff already though. The HTA numbers and percentages are where the real improvement has come.

Still trying to figure out why in the hell he was spelled for so long in the 4th last week.

He was probably tired and may not have had a good chance to get back on the ground at the right time.

[Testekill]

At this point it's just about boosting his number of hit outs and staying healthy, while his total number of hitouts are low for an elite ruck he generally gets more taps to advantage than his opponents. He looked AA bound last year before he injured himself and he has only improved from there.

[Happy Days]

He was probably tired.

Of course, but without checking the numbers he was off for what felt like an eternity.

It’s honestly probably more on Lobb for not firing a shot but the game was on the line and a lever should’ve been pulled.

[bornadog]

Congratulations to Big Tim on 100 Games this week v Freo.

We will need him at his best v Sean Darcy.

[jeemak]

Congratulations indeed. Great selection as a first rounder, and when you look at it we did extremely well to land him when we did.

[jeemak]

AFLPA article on English at the start.

https://www.aflplayers.com.au/news-feed/stories/how-tim-became-an-english-bulldog

[MrMahatma]

Last milestone player was BOG.

So will Tim be this week.

[Ozza]

Was actually surprised he has only played 100. Feel like he's been around a long time.
100-200 could be pretty special.

[Mofra]

Was actually surprised he has only played 100. Feel like he's been around a long time.
100-200 could be pretty special.
A lot of ruckmen share duties or are bit players for the first 60-80 games.
Tim's best footy is definitely ahead of him

[Eastdog]

Well done Tim. Hopefully a huge 100th game this Saturday to get us the win.

[Flamethrower]

Just read that Tim English is a free agent after the 2024 season, and that West Coast are planning on throwing every kitchen sink on the planet at him (rumours of up to 7 year $10 million contract).

Are we any chance to keep him? Do we start collecting 20c coins now?

[hujsh]

Just read that Tim English is a free agent after the 2024 season, and that West Coast are planning on throwing every kitchen sink on the planet at him (rumours of up to 7 year $10 million contract).

Are we any chance to keep him? Do we start collecting 20c coins now?

If they provide draft capital to match it could also be a huge opportunity

[GVGjr]

Just read that Tim English is a free agent after the 2024 season, and that West Coast are planning on throwing every kitchen sink on the planet at him (rumours of up to 7 year $10 million contract).

Are we any chance to keep him? Do we start collecting 20c coins now?

If true, how could he say no? He's a Restricted Free Agent but I doubt we could match an offer of that magnitude.
For those who have been against us drafting ruckman and see it as a wasted spot under Bevo this is one of the reasons why we need to get busy and draft a genuine ruckman. It's not just injuries you have to cover.

[bornadog]

If true, how could he say no? He's a Restricted Free Agent but I doubt we could match an offer of that magnitude.
For those who have been against us drafting ruckman and see it as a wasted spot under Bevo this is one of the reasons why we need to get busy and draft a genuine ruckman.

I can see Darcy becoming a ruckman

[GVGjr]

I can see Darcy becoming a ruckman

Yes, you've mentioned that from day one. I think it would be a waste if we used him that way and he just doesn't have the build for it and that might take a few years. He's got to get some continuity in his football before that. I think he's more of a Rory Lobb type forward/ruck.

[bornadog]

Yes, you've mentioned that from day one. I think it would be a waste if we used him that way and he just doesn't have the build for it and that might take a few years. He's got to get some continuity in his football before that. I think he's more of a Rory Lobb type forward/ruck.

We have been patient with Tim and pampered him to where he is now. He is a must keep.

[GVGjr]

We have been patient with Tim and pampered him to where he is now. He is a must keep.

We've been patient to the point that he's close to being a RFA just as he hit his straps.

[Bulldog Joe]

Yes, you've mentioned that from day one. I think it would be a waste if we used him that way and he just doesn't have the build for it and that might take a few years. He's got to get some continuity in his football before that. I think he's more of a Rory Lobb type forward/ruck.
Respectfully disagree.
Darcy has the potential to be the mobile marking tall and probably a better pure tap ruckman.
English has better running for both speed and capacity, but Darcy should be better suited to ruck than any other position.
He should develop into a goalkicking ruckman unless we decide he is the long term full forward.

[josie]

If Tim helps us win another premiership this year or next he can move to Wet Toast with my blessing. Will be even more enticing if we end up with a few really high end draft picks or equivalent value as compensation.

[bulldogtragic]

If Tim helps us win another premiership this year or next he can move to Wet Toast with my blessing. Will be even more enticing if we end up with a few really high end draft picks or equivalent value as compensation.

If he left next year as FA and we win a flag, the compo for him would be Pick 19. Shuffled down after matched bids and any other higher compo to other teams. So a single pick in the 20?s in real terms.

He?s worth a lot more trades this year? But if sign him if his salary request was reasonable.

(We could threaten to match the bid and force a trade, but it?s going to be less than trading this year if trade value is an issue)

[GVGjr]

Respectfully disagree.
Darcy has the potential to be the mobile marking tall and probably a better pure tap ruckman.
English has better running for both speed and capacity, but Darcy should be better suited to ruck than any other position.
He should develop into a goalkicking ruckman unless we decide he is the long term full forward.

We are poles apart on how we see Darcy at this stage.
He's had no continuity of football since he arrived including navicular, lung and now jaw plus some challenges during the pre-season so I don't get the notion of throwing him into a position that requires a higher level of physicality being a good one for him. He might get there but I wouldn't use a bunch of picks to get pick 2 for a ruck man given he didn't even play there as a junior.
I'd be more inclined to groom him as the Lobb replacement but respect where you are coming from.

[jazzadogs]

Just read that Tim English is a free agent after the 2024 season, and that West Coast are planning on throwing every kitchen sink on the planet at him (rumours of up to 7 year $10 million contract).

Are we any chance to keep him? Do we start collecting 20c coins now?

Are you suggesting that they will try to get him on that contract this year as a pre-agent?

If Tim did seek a trade to Wce this year, what do we see as best case scenario? Pick 1 by itself? Pick 1 plus others?

[mjp]

I think he's more of a Rory Lobb type forward/ruck.

Well, aren’t you a ray of sunshine!

[GVGjr]

Well, aren’t you a ray of sunshine!

Not sure how to respond to this :)
A forward who pitches in as a ruck is about where I see Darcy in the short to medium term. The fact that he can also play as a defender is impressive.

[Bulldog Joe]

We are poles apart on how we see Darcy at this stage.
He's had no continuity of football since he arrived including navicular, lung and now jaw plus some challenges during the pre-season so I don't get the notion of throwing him into a position that requires a higher level of physicality being a good one for him. He might get there but I wouldn't use a bunch of picks to get pick 2 for a ruck man given he didn't even play there as a junior.
I'd be more inclined to groom him as the Lobb replacement but respect where you are coming from.

While I agree that he has had some challenges and is a way off.

As he develops I certainly expect him to be much more than anything Rory Lobb can offer.

For pick 2 we should get a match winner and Darcy needs to be the goalkicking ruck or pure forward in the ilk of Paul Salmon.

I certainly hope he provides more reliability from about 2025 onwards.

My standard for him would be the best Joe Daniher but on a regular basis.

[GVGjr]

While I agree that he has had some challenges and is a way off.

As he develops I certainly expect him to be much more than anything Rory Lobb can offer.

For pick 2 we should get a match winner and Darcy needs to be the goalkicking ruck or pure forward in the ilk of Paul Salmon.

I certainly hope he provides more reliability from about 2025 onwards.

My standard for him would be the best Joe Daniher but on a regular basis.

That part makes the most sense, we need to be patient with him and almost manage him towards 2025. Throwing him into the ruck other than some supporting cameo's now and I suspect even next year probably won't achieve that.

I notice during the preseason that when he was on his marking was quite impressive and similar to what we have seen from Marra this year with an uncanny ability to mark the ball at a full stretch. This is why I'm vastly more bullish for him to be used anywhere other than in the ruck before he physically matures.

As for the Daniher comparison, when he is in full flight he looks so impressive. That would be huge to get Darcy somewhere near that standard.

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fz1FAspaUAI9FFm?format=jpg&name=large

[jazzadogs]

What did we make of Tim's game today? My impression was that he was soundly beaten by Darcy, but also showed more persistence and variety than he has in the past to at least even the contest.

Attended 90 ruck contests
30 hitouts (Darcy 50)
10 disposals (18)
3 marks (6)
10 tackles (2)
4 clearances (3)
1 goal (1.1)

[bornadog]

What did we make of Tim's game today? My impression was that he was soundly beaten by Darcy, but also showed more persistence and variety than he has in the past to at least even the contest.

Attended 90 ruck contests
30 hitouts (Darcy 50)
10 disposals (18)
3 marks (6)
10 tackles (2)
4 clearances (3)
1 goal (1.1)

Hitouts to advantage, Darcy 13, Tim 11.

I still had Darcy ahead as he played well around the ground. We smashed them in clearances, so Darcy's hitouts went to our mids.

Tim with only 10 disposals was well down on his average for the season

[jazzadogs]

Hitouts to advantage, Darcy 13, Tim 11.

I still had Darcy ahead as he played well around the ground. We smashed them in clearances, so Darcy's hitouts went to our mids.

Tim with only 10 disposals was well down on his average for the season

Thanks, I couldn't find that on the AFL app.

I think his low disposals/marks numbers was more disappointing than his ruck work, especially as he was often trailing Darcy around the ground.

[hujsh]

Thanks, I couldn't find that on the AFL app.

I think his low disposals/marks numbers was more disappointing than his ruck work, especially as he was often trailing Darcy around the ground.

Trailing Darcy when he kicked that goal was inexcusable you'd have to think. The guy's not Usain Bolt

[bornadog]

Trailing Darcy when he kicked that goal was inexcusable you'd have to think. The guy's not Usain Bolt

Watching the replay they pointed that out.

[Bulldog4life]

Huge shout out for Tim's 10 tackles. Only second to Adz's 12 tackles for all 46 players. Darcy had 2.

[Hotdog60]

Tim needs to learn he can't go shoulder to shoulder with the bigger rucks and needs to come in of a bit of a run up and use his athleticism to advantage looks much better when he gets a leap at it.

[D Mitchell]

Huge shout out for Tim's 10 tackles. Only second to Adz's 12 tackles for all 46 players. Darcy had 2.
I don't think Bev needs a huge shout out, that and other non traditional hitout ruckmen's actions is exactly what he wants. Darcy belted English in ruckwork. Bev wouldn't have given two hoots.

[mjp]

Tim was great.

You're not getting a shut-out vs Darcy. He's a good player...it's ok to be 'shaded' in a contest by a good player if you play with great effort and give it your all. Tim did all of that...

[D Mitchell]

Tim was great.

You're not getting a shut-out vs Darcy. He's a good player...it's ok to be 'shaded' in a contest by a good player if you play with great effort and give it your all. Tim did all of that...

50 : 30 hitouts constitutes a bit more than shaded. Bev would have look at Darcy's and English's goals and called it a draw. He might have looked at English's defensive mark in Q4 as giving English the edge.

[Mofra]

Darcy covers more ground than many give him credit for. It's really Timmy Vs Darcy for the AA gig this year and they are complete opposites in style.

[Bulldog Joe]

So how do we see the match up this week with Darcy Cameron.
If Tim can get the better of the clash it will be good start towards bettering Collingwood

[bornadog]

50 : 30 hitouts constitutes a bit more than shaded. Bev would have look at Darcy's and English's goals and called it a draw. He might have looked at English's defensive mark in Q4 as giving English the edge.

hitouts to advantage only a couple different - makes a huge difference to the mids and clearances

[jeemak]

Darcy got his hands to a lot of inconsequential taps, but him getting them means Tim didn't and with Tim's superior conversion to hit outs to advantage being higher that actually counts for something.

It's OK for both rucks to play well in different ways and both to walk off with their heads held high. That's the beauty of the position, you can have two very different game styles contributing.

Tim would like to have pushed back harder than he did when Darcy goaled, but at the same time Darcy let Tim get an easy one in the first few minutes of the game. An enjoyable contest between two very good early-mid career rucks.

[Grantysghost]

From club Twitter account :

Tim English set a new club record with 60 hit-outs in a game against the Swans.

This also puts him 4th for the club's most hit-outs in a season

[JanLorMill]

From club Twitter account :

Tim English set a new club record with 60 hit-outs in a game against the Swans.

This also puts him 4th for the club's most hit-outs in a season
Club record? When did start counting taps properly? I would have though Gary Dempsey would have been close to this number

[bornadog]

Club record? When did start counting taps properly? I would have though Gary Dempsey would have been close to this number

Career averages are Dempsey 19.7 (includes games at North) and Tim 19.8

[JanLorMill]

Career averages are Dempsey 19.7 (includes games at North) and Tim 19.8
I find that hard to believe. Can’t see a complete range of stats for at least 1974 and 75.

[JanLorMill]

From afltable.com Dempsey had a high of 63taps with north in 1982 and career average of 22.04 but you can see there are hardly any stats recorded for 1974 and his 75 his Brownlow year with a number of other games til 1978 where there are no HO stats

[bornadog]

From afltable.com Dempsey had a high of 63taps with north in 1982 and career average of 22.04 but you can see there are hardly any stats recorded for 1974 and his 75 his Brownlow year with a number of other games til 1978 where there are no HO stats

here you go

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-kangaroos--gary-dempsey

also

Most Dogs? hit-outs in a season: English enters top four


Ruck Tim English has recorded the fourth-most hit-outs by a Bulldog in a single season, with six games of 2023 remaining.

From his 17 outings this season, English has won a total of 516 hit-outs at an average of 30.35 per match.

His 60 hit-outs against the Swans on Thursday night set a new Club record for most hit-outs in a game, while propelling him into fourth spot for the Club?s most hit-outs in a season.

English leapfrogged Andrew Purser?s 1983 record of 489 hit-outs and is now closing in on the third-placed Will Minson (667 hit-outs in 2012).

English also collected 22 disposals, four marks and 10 clearances against Sydney, marking one of his most impactful appearances of the season to date.

Western Bulldogs ? Most hit-outs in a game

Tim English (60 hit-outs) ? Round 18, 2023
Will Minson (57) ? Round 10, 2013
Will Minson (56) ? Round 6, 2011
Will Minson (55) ? Round 3, 2014
Will Minson (54) ? Round 17, 2012

Western Bulldogs ? Most hit-outs in a season


Will Minson (860 hit-outs) ? 2013
Will Minson (757) ? 2014
Will Minson (667) ? 2012
Tim English (516*) ? 2023
Andrew Purser (489) ? 1983

*At the end of Round 18.

[MrMahatma]

And Bevo wouldn’t play Minson

[Hotdog60]

And Bevo wouldn’t play Minson

I loved Minno, but another ruck with cement hands and I think this is the only knock on Sweet.
Not so much he's not mobile enough but if he is in a contest there's less than 10% chance of marking it.
Now days and probably starting at the end of Minson's career as ruck you need to provide the kick down the line option and give the kicker the confidence that if he goes in that direction 8 out 10 times your ruck will clunk it.

[JanLorMill]

here you go

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-kangaroos--gary-dempsey


Like I said before those stats aren’t complete

[bornadog]

Like I said before those stats aren’t complete

Yes they are for Hitouts.

Did you look

[mjp]

Isn't this like Pendlebury breaking the record for possessions?

Who actually cares? When hitout numbers are being reported the world has gone deadset crazy.

[bornadog]

Isn't this like Pendlebury breaking the record for possessions?

Who actually cares? When hitout numbers are being reported the world has gone deadset crazy.

I actually agree, but when it gets to Tim being any good or not, then the discussion continues.

[Danjul]

I loved Minno, but another ruck with cement hands and I think this is the only knock on Sweet.
Not so much he's not mobile enough but if he is in a contest there's less than 10% chance of marking it.
Now days and probably starting at the end of Minson's career as ruck you need to provide the kick down the line option and give the kicker the confidence that if he goes in that direction 8 out 10 times your ruck will clunk it.

I watched just under half of the VFL game and saw someone take an overhead pack mark and go back and kick a goal from 45 m near boundary. I saw the same person running around the half forward flank and give a handpass to Arty for a simple shot at goal. They also took a mark on the backline and gave a 45m pass to Khamis who dropped the chest mark.

cannot think of the name, wasn?t Bruce or Lobb, but they were above average height. Seemed to be a prime mover contributing to the team?s momentum.

Lobb is averaging 2.3 marks per game, the 0.3 is the contested part.

How many are taking a contested mark 8 out of 10 attempts? English and Naughton are averaging under 2 per game and The Bont is averaging less than 1 - actually close to one every 2 games.

For some players the bar rises when the discussion gets to them.

[1eyedog]

Isn't this like Pendlebury breaking the record for possessions?

Who actually cares? When hitout numbers are being reported the world has gone deadset crazy.

Gill going down to the rooms and congratulating the bloke who goes ok at Basketball was dumb.

Re. English the Swans didn't actually play a ruckman that night, right?

[JanLorMill]

Yes they are for Hitouts.

Did you look
I did. Did you?
30HO in 1974 from 21 games?
167HO in 1975 from 21 games in Brownlow year when averaging 19,that’s not right.
Obviously there were games missed.
You can see it here. https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/G/Gary_Dempsey.html#teamp

[bornadog]

I did. Did you?
30HO in 1974 from 21 games?
167HO in 1975 from 21 games in Brownlow year when averaging 19,that’s not right.
Obviously there were games missed.
You can see it here. https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players/G/Gary_Dempsey.html#teamp

ok, I didn't look at year by year totals.

[Mofra]

Gill going down to the rooms and congratulating the bloke who goes ok at Basketball was dumb.

Re. English the Swans didn't actually play a ruckman that night, right?
McLean, a 24 year old 197cm forward who occasionally rucks. From the PSP in 2019.

Timmy should be dominating him, and given we lost the game - Longmire's gamble clearly worked.

[Sedat]

Gill going down to the rooms and congratulating the bloke who goes ok at Basketball was dumb.
I've never seen anybody announce their resignation and then proceed to hang around for another 18 months in the same position like Polo Gil has done, in some sort of perverse (non) victory lap. He's like the soul of your sneakers that still smell of dog turd 18 months after they've been partially cleaned.

[Mofra]

I've never seen anybody announce their resignation and then proceed to hang around for another 18 months in the same position like Polo Gil has done, in some sort of perverse (non) victory lap. He's like the soul of your sneakers that still smell of dog turd 18 months after they've been partially cleaned.
Jeez, you're really not ready to hear about Ben Hudson or John Farnham...

[Sedat]

Jeez, you're really not ready to hear about Ben Hudson or John Farnham...
Or KISS

[EasternWest]

Isn't this like Pendlebury breaking the record for possessions?

Who actually cares? When hitout numbers are being reported the world has gone deadset crazy.

Don't you dare take our pressure acts off us.

[Hotdog60]

I watched just under half of the VFL game and saw someone take an overhead pack mark and go back and kick a goal from 45 m near boundary. I saw the same person running around the half forward flank and give a handpass to Arty for a simple shot at goal. They also took a mark on the backline and gave a 45m pass to Khamis who dropped the chest mark.

cannot think of the name, wasn?t Bruce or Lobb, but they were above average height. Seemed to be a prime mover contributing to the team?s momentum.

Lobb is averaging 2.3 marks per game, the 0.3 is the contested part.

How many are taking a contested mark 8 out of 10 attempts? English and Naughton are averaging under 2 per game and The Bont is averaging less than 1 - actually close to one every 2 games.

For some players the bar rises when the discussion gets to them.

I won't mention his name either and that was probably one of his best games this season but if you go back you will find it's a rarity if it's happen in the past.
Who knows it may be starting to come together for him now he's matured a bit.
But we won't see the benefit as he will be elsewhere net year. :)
We really missed the boat when Martin was out for a extended period and should have got games into him.

[Grantysghost]

I watched just under half of the VFL game and saw someone take an overhead pack mark and go back and kick a goal from 45 m near boundary. I saw the same person running around the half forward flank and give a handpass to Arty for a simple shot at goal. They also took a mark on the backline and gave a 45m pass to Khamis who dropped the chest mark.

cannot think of the name, wasn?t Bruce or Lobb, but they were above average height. Seemed to be a prime mover contributing to the team?s momentum.

Lobb is averaging 2.3 marks per game, the 0.3 is the contested part.

How many are taking a contested mark 8 out of 10 attempts? English and Naughton are averaging under 2 per game and The Bont is averaging less than 1 - actually close to one every 2 games.

For some players the bar rises when the discussion gets to them.

Nadroj Teews? We can use this code name Danjul no one will know.

[macca]

Jeez, you're really not ready to hear about Ben Hudson or John Farnham...

collingwood and brisbane wanted him around , so much they asked him back to play.
18 games brisbane
7 games collingwood

Probably add mumford to that as well.

168 games over 10 years, the great beard

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Hudson

[Danjul]

Nadroj Teews? We can use this code name Danjul no one will know.
I shouldn?t find that too difficult to remember. Thanks.

I went back to watch Darcy kick his goals against Collingwood. He is going to be one of the greats. Moves so smoothly. Just needs to put on 10 kg.

Well, while I was watching Nadroj kept getting in the frame.

One passage of play: Ball in centre, taken by Nadroj, long kick to Darcy, goal. 10 seconds.

[Danjul]

I won't mention his name either and that was probably one of his best games this season but if you go back you will find it's a rarity if it's happen in the past.
Who knows it may be starting to come together for him now he's matured a bit.
But we won't see the benefit as he will be elsewhere net year. :)
We really missed the boat when Martin was out for a extended period and should have got games into him.
You are correct, on all points.

(I did a google search yesterday and was surprised to see that his best game at Footscray was his first.)

[Grantysghost]

I shouldn?t find that too difficult to remember. Thanks.

I went back to watch Darcy kick his goals against Collingwood. He is going to be one of the greats. Moves so smoothly. Just needs to put on 10 kg.

Well, while I was watching Nadroj kept getting in the frame.

One passage of play: Ball in centre, taken by Nadroj, long kick to Darcy, goal. 10 seconds.

I stood next to big Yteews on Monday night. Man mountain with a baby face.

[D Mitchell]

I stood next to big Yteews on Monday night. Man mountain with a baby face.

Remember skinny, Bob Murphy ? I stood next to him once. AFL footballers are a race apart.

[Danjul]

Remember skinny, Bob Murphy ? I stood next to him once. AFL footballers are a race apart.
I don?t think they understand, or are even aware of, how us mortals struggle to cope with physical activity.

I have seen them move from sport to sport and excel at all. Look at Keath, age diminishes them but do they ever fall back to average?

[Before I Die]

McLean, a 24 year old 197cm forward who occasionally rucks. From the PSP in 2019.

Timmy should be dominating him, and given we lost the game - Longmire's gamble clearly worked.

Clearly Longmire didn’t give a fat rat’s clacker about who won the hit outs, because they really don’t matter that much, as evidenced by the match result. He was more interested in restricting Tim’s dominance around the ground. I can’t believe the discussion that goes on here about woe is us, we have the best ruckman in the league, if only we could trade him for a much more limited player who would win us more meaningless hit outs.

[jeemak]

Clearly Longmire didn?t give a fat rat?s clacker about who won the hit outs, because they really don?t matter that much, as evidenced by the match result. He was more interested in restricting Tim?s dominance around the ground. I can?t believe the discussion that goes on here about woe is us, we have the best ruckman in the league, if only we could trade him for a much more limited player who would win us more meaningless hit outs.

Hit outs are only important when Tim doesn't get them as far as I can gather.

[Danjul]

Clearly Longmire didn?t give a fat rat?s clacker about who won the hit outs, because they really don?t matter that much, as evidenced by the match result. He was more interested in restricting Tim?s dominance around the ground. I can?t believe the discussion that goes on here about woe is us, we have the best ruckman in the league, if only we could trade him for a much more limited player who would win us more meaningless hit outs.
In late 2021 Essendon stripped us of the double chance because of dominance at the centre bounce. Even though the dogs won every other aspect of the game. A few weeks later Melbourne repeated the punishment in the GF. Our best season in 15 years re-defined by 30 minutes in the centre ruck contests.

And some have said on here that the club is still recovering from the blows.

[Before I Die]

In late 2021 Essendon stripped us of the double chance because of dominance at the centre bounce. Even though the dogs won every other aspect of the game. A few weeks later Melbourne repeated the punishment in the GF. Our best season in 15 years re-defined by 30 minutes in the centre ruck contests.

And some have said on here that the club is still recovering from the blows.

That is your opinion re the two games mentioned, and even then completely disregards the impact, or lack of impact, from our midfielders. It also completely ignores all the other games played that year that actually got us into the finals and then eventually into the GF. You have a love of quoting individual player stats from cherry picked games. I look forward to seeing you regularly quoting Tim’s 60 hit out AFL game, a club record, as comparison when you quote the hit out numbers for our second string ruckman in VFL games.

This is the Welcome to Tim English thread, how about quoting Jordan Sweets stats each week in the Welcome to Jordan Street thread, then those who want to can read them and join with you in bemoaning the greatest travesty in AFL history.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

It's less about hitouts and more about the physical presence in and around centre clearance and stoppage. English has been bullied in this regard too often and despite having a good year, it's still not an area I trust him in. He can, at times, be empathically beaten. The issue is that some hail him as the best ruck in the league while others trash him. Truth is in the middle - he's not the best, he's not the worst.

A far bigger issue is our midfield group.

[Before I Die]

It's less about hitouts and more about the physical presence in and around centre clearance and stoppage. English has been bullied in this regard too often and despite having a good year, it's still not an area I trust him in. He can, at times, be empathically beaten. The issue is that some hail him as the best ruck in the league while others trash him. Truth is in the middle - he's not the best, he's not the worst.

A far bigger issue is our midfield group.

It will be interesting to see what the All Australian Selectors think regarding who is, and who isn’t, the best.

[Grantysghost]

Clearly Longmire didn?t give a fat rat?s clacker about who won the hit outs, because they really don?t matter that much, as evidenced by the match result. He was more interested in restricting Tim?s dominance around the ground. I can?t believe the discussion that goes on here about woe is us, we have the best ruckman in the league, if only we could trade him for a much more limited player who would win us more meaningless hit outs.

Maybe we lose by more without Tim? Long bow I know ;)

[Sedat]

It's less about hitouts and more about the physical presence in and around centre clearance and stoppage. English has been bullied in this regard too often and despite having a good year, it's still not an area I trust him in. He can, at times, be empathically beaten. The issue is that some hail him as the best ruck in the league while others trash him. Truth is in the middle - he's not the best, he's not the worst.

A far bigger issue is our midfield group.
With English, the gap between his best and worst is still vast. Bash and crash rucks of the Ben Hudson/Nank variety are predictable in their effort and in outcomes, and they also add an extra inside mid to the mix when the ball is in dispute at ground level. English has improved but is still prone to really poor intensity efforts where he gets ragdolled at stoppages and around the ground (eg: the Port game against Lycett).

[Danjul]

That is your opinion re the two games mentioned, and even then completely disregards the impact, or lack of impact, from our midfielders. It also completely ignores all the other games played that year that actually got us into the finals and then eventually into the GF. You have a love of quoting individual player stats from cherry picked games. I look forward to seeing you regularly quoting Tim?s 60 hit out AFL game, a club record, as comparison when you quote the hit out numbers for our second string ruckman in VFL games.

This is the Welcome to Tim English thread, how about quoting Jordan Sweets stats each week in the Welcome to Jordan Street thread, then those who want to can read them and join with you in bemoaning the greatest travesty in AFL history.


You are totally misrepresenting what I said. I was responding to hitouts generally from a previous comment. They are important.

We lost the double chance and easy route to the grand final. And that happened in the ruck in the centre in 2021. In the Essendon game and then in the Hawthorn game. All we needed was a lousy extra goal or preventing one of the last three opponents. The structure selected could not do it. Historical facts.

In the port Adelaide game I saw English walk away from a ruck contest so Hannan could take it when the ball was in our forward pocket. English had 1, yes 1, hitout that day. Young and anyone close at the time did the ruck work. We didn?t believe in ruck then, (or maybe Dunkley just refused to do it).

Nothing to do with Sweet.

Nothing to do with 2023 English. Who has finally arrived at where we all expected him to be in 2023. One of the best.

But 1 extra good hitout in those last 3 games of 2021 could have had a significant impact. Maybe would have prevented wasting the benefits of all the magnificent games that got us to first place with three games to go.

So to reiterate my response to the original comment, hitouts are important and can have significant impacts.

[kruder]

Worth noting that poster on BF who has had excellent information on the dogs over the last few years is saying that English is a big chance to go to WCE big money involved and that Pick 1 would be on the table.

It's going to be very interesting off season.

[bulldogtragic]

Worth noting that poster on BF who has had excellent information on the dogs over the last few years is saying that English is a big chance to go to WCE big money involved and that Pick 1 would be on the table.

It's going to be very interesting off season.

As I said in the other thread, add in Barass for whatever pick/s back. Get another mature KPD in free agency. Go get a mature first ruck on the cheap (even Grundy would be cheap) and still get Croft and possibly Lual.

Big boys: Liam Jones, Barass, McKay/Himmelberg, Gardner
Third talls (being younger): Buss, JOD & Cleary
Smalls: Dale, Ed, JJ, Gags, Lual, VDM
Mids: Stocked & Reid
Wings: Williams, Poulter, Baker, Scott, spare mid
Tall Forwards: Naughton, JUH, Darcy, Lobb (2 years), Croft
Mid: Weightman, Reid as he develops
Small: Arty, Clarke

Kids: Reid, Croft & Lual et al

Need a ruck and a Lohmann type small forward. A good winger would top it off.

Clear out salaries of Bruce, Keath, TOB, Crozier & Duryea.

Keep Smith and sell him and Reid leading the mids as soon as they can.


English needs to return overs. So we should be pretty greedy if the rumour has meat…

[Mantis]

English needs to return overs. So we should be pretty greedy if the rumour has meat…

English & our 1st pick for Pick 1 & Barass.

Where do I sign up?