Who would you have JMac target this year?

[ledge]

How old is this photo and who are they besides the Bont? Looks like it's stringer and suckling.

[bornadog]

Is that Trengove and Bont?

Yes and Impey. ;)

[KT31]

Yes and Impey. ;)

Trengove and Impey very close, he took Impey under his wing after the incident earlier in the year.
Goodbye dinner or maybe both packaged up together ?

[bornadog]

Trengove and Impey very close, he took Impey under his wing after the incident earlier in the year.
Goodbye dinner or maybe both packaged up together ?

The Package wasn't there :D

[bornadog]

OK found this:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DK5WYxJU8AIxmtQ.jpg:large

[GVGjr]

Impey is still just 22 and has played 75 games of senior football. Thats incredibly durable and consistent for a youngster.
His form dropped off at the end of the season much like Trengove

He played mainly forward this year and puts a lot of tackling pressure on his opponents.

15.14 goals for the season and averaged 3 tackles which was very similar results when compared to last years effort.
I would imagine he won't come cheap unless Port need to clear the decks for more high profile players.

[GVGjr]

Trengove and Impey very close, he took Impey under his wing after the incident earlier in the year.
Goodbye dinner or maybe both packaged up together ?

Given Trengoves reputation of being a solid leader at Port it's a very natural fit for us at the moment.

[chef]

Trengove and Impey very close, he took Impey under his wing after the incident earlier in the year.
Goodbye dinner or maybe both packaged up together ?

It goes back to just before Impeys father passed, he asked Jackson to looked out/after for his son. They are extremely close.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I'd be happy to get Impey to the club - he fits a need for us and has some upside

[ratsmac]

We need some indigenous flair in our team. They bring some real excitement to the game. Come on board Mr Impey.

[The Underdog]

I'd be happy to get Impey to the club - he fits a need for us and has some upside

He is absolutely straight up the type of player our side needs, pace, size and good skills. I'd be wrapt to get him.

[Dry Rot]

If you had a choice of Saad or Impey, who would you take?

[bulldogtragic]

Impey is still just 22 and has played 75 games of senior football. Thats incredibly durable and consistent for a youngster.
His form dropped off at the end of the season much like Trengove

He played mainly forward this year and puts a lot of tackling pressure on his opponents.

15.14 goals for the season and averaged 3 tackles which was very similar results when compared to last years effort.
I would imagine he won't come cheap unless Port need to clear the decks for more high profile players.

If they want Rockliff, Motlop & Watts then losing Impey wouldn't be a huge loss and they need some salary cap space too. I'm sure if everyone understands knocking this over quick makes both clubs trade period a little easier.

If he's going to be the forward pressure guy, Crozier might be playing further up the ground.

[Doc26]

The Package wasn't there :D

I thought I was looking at Jake in the white Tee as part of a reconciliation until hearing it was Trengove.

[bornadog]

Hawks are also into Impey.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Saad over Impey, but I'd still be a fan of getting Impey.

[bulldogtragic]

If you had a choice of Saad or Impey, who would you take?

We can do both, if we wanted.

[Bulldog Revolution]

We can do both, if we wanted.

Is Saad available? I can't imagine the Shbs wanting to trade him

[bulldogtragic]

Is Saad available? I can't imagine the Shbs wanting to trade him

Media reports saying he wants to come back to Victoria.

[GVGjr]

If you had a choice of Saad or Impey, who would you take?

It would take a bit of manipulation but I think we could get both. It really depends on where we will play JJ next season.
A slight leaning towards Impey only because we already have a lot of half back flanker types. Saad is probably the better footballer

[Dry Rot]

Cutler of the Lions looking to return home to Victoria.

Any interest?

http://www.lions.com.au/player-profile/tom-cutler

[G-Mo77]

How many spots do we have available right now before trading.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I know they are not star players but Crozier, Impey and Trengove would be great additions to our team. Still need some forward power though

[bornadog]

How many spots do we have available right now before trading.

1. Murph
2. Boyd
3. Hamilton

4. Honeychurch?
5. Crameri?
6. Stringer?

[ledge]

1. Murph
2. Boyd
3. Hamilton

4. Honeychurch?
5. Crameri?
6. Stringer?

Add prudden off the rookie list.
Also need to decide on Roarke Smith who needs to be added to list or dropped off, but from all reports he will be added.

[G-Mo77]

1. Murph
2. Boyd
3. Hamilton

4. Honeychurch?
5. Crameri?
6. Stringer?

Honeybadger and Crameri IMO are certainties to be moved on. Stringer? Well, who knows? Smith elevated, I'm pretty sure they've stated that already. Trengove in. 3 with Stringer, 4 without. Not enough IMO

[bornadog]

Honeybadger and Crameri IMO are certainties to be moved on. Stringer? Well, who knows? Smith elevated, I'm pretty sure they've stated that already. Trengove in. 3 with Stringer, 4 without. Not enough IMO

Trengove doesn't cost us a pick does he?

Let's say our first pick = a draftee, plus Trengove, Impey, Crozier and Smith and assume Stringer stays. Only one new young recruit.

[ledge]

Trengove doesn't cost us a pick does he?

Let's say our first pick = a draftee, plus Trengove, Impey, Crozier and Smith and assume Stringer stays. Only one new young recruit.

We have to give something up for Impey, Crozier and Smith don't we ?

[bornadog]

We have to give something up for Impey, Crozier and Smith don't we ?

Yes, and we have 5 picks to give up.

[ledge]

Yes, and we have 5 picks to give up.

Or/and players.

[GVGjr]

Honeybadger and Crameri IMO are certainties to be moved on. Stringer? Well, who knows? Smith elevated, I'm pretty sure they've stated that already. Trengove in. 3 with Stringer, 4 without. Not enough IMO

Agreed, we need to have at least 7 spots and then hopefully add a couple during the FA and trade periods. We need to hold back with Smith

[GVGjr]

Trengove doesn't cost us a pick does he?

Let's say our first pick = a draftee, plus Trengove, Impey, Crozier and Smith and assume Stringer stays. Only one new young recruit.

Trengove is a spot on the list which just reduces the number of spots to fill

[G-Mo77]

Agreed, we need to have at least 7 spots and then hopefully add a couple during the FA and trade periods. We need to hold back with Smith

Can we hold him back of we want to retain him? I thought he'd have to be elevated or delisted and re rookied.

[ledge]

Can we hold him back of we want to retain him? I thought he'd have to be elevated or delisted and re rookied.
I think we can release him and be confident enough no one else will take him and pick him up later in the draft if we want him.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I think we can release him and be confident enough no one else will take him and pick him up later in the draft if we want him.

Agreed

[GVGjr]

Can we hold him back of we want to retain him? I thought he'd have to be elevated or delisted and re rookied.

We can do two things, wait until the draft and if he close to be the best player available with our last selection we can pick him then or wait until the preseason draft and add him back in then. You run the risk of someone else selecting him but that shouldn't be an issue.

[Doc26]

Trengove doesn't cost us a pick does he?

Let's say our first pick = a draftee, plus Trengove, Impey, Crozier and Smith and assume Stringer stays. Only one new young recruit.

I'm not sure if I'm reading you correctly BD but I believe that we are obliged to pick a 'minimum' of 3 players in the National Draft but can include an elevated rookie such as Roarke but traded in players are not part of the min. of 3.

For example, Hawthorn and Melbourne only had 2 live picks in the previous ND but that is because they upgraded from their rookie lists Kade Stewart and Josh Wagner respectively.

So my reading would see a min of 2 draftees and Roarke IF upgraded.

[LostDoggy]

So I've seen a few people predicting that we might only use two live picks this draft?

[G-Mo77]

So I've seen a few people predicting that we might only use two live picks this draft?

I hope not. Dal needs more than that to play with.

[GVGjr]

So I've seen a few people predicting that we might only use two live picks this draft?

I hope not, that means we are upgrading Roarke Smith and bringing in the balance via trades.

I'd even be tempted to break a contract or two for undeserving types to clear the players who aren't committed.

Murphy, M.Boyd, Hamilton, Honeychurch and Crameri aren't enough changes in my opinion.

We can possibly assume Smith, Trengove and Crozier are additions leaving just 2 picks at the draft.
It's a far better draft than that.

[The Doctor]

I'd even be tempted to break a contract or two for undeserving types to clear the players who aren't committed.

Murphy, M.Boyd, Hamilton, Honeychurch and Crameri aren't enough changes in my opinion.



Who are the undeserving types, in your opinion, in line for the chop then?

[GVGjr]

Who are the undeserving types, in your opinion, in line for the chop then?

I'll wait until we hear who we cut from the list first but there are 4 or 5 that didn't measure up last year and we will know soon enough if any of them are up for trades.
Also the moment the boys come back from holidays we will get a good idea which ones are committed. It will be a brave boy or an ignorant one that rocks up to training in less than acceptable condition.

[hujsh]

I'll wait until we hear who we cut from the list first but there are 4 or 5 that didn't measure up last year and we will know soon enough if any of them are up for trades.
Also the moment the boys come back from holidays we will get a good idea which ones are committed. It will be a brave boy or an ignorant one that rocks up to training in less than acceptable condition.
So Clay comes to mind pretty quickly as tradeable and down on form from last year

[GVGjr]

So Clay comes to mind pretty quickly as tradeable and down on form from last year

I think it's fair to say that he arrived back from his break in not great condition and struggled most of the season. He wouldn't want to come back from a break in less than ideal condition again.
I'm not sure about his trade value though.

[bornadog]

I'm not sure if I'm reading you correctly BD but I believe that we are obliged to pick a 'minimum' of 3 players in the National Draft but can include an elevated rookie such as Roarke but traded in players are not part of the min. of 3.

For example, Hawthorn and Melbourne only had 2 live picks in the previous ND but that is because they upgraded from their rookie lists Kade Stewart and Josh Wagner respectively.

So my reading would see a min of 2 draftees and Roarke IF upgraded.

ok, I didn't know that.

[Doc26]

ok, I didn't know that.

I've just thrown the following together, as much for my own interest, using your indicated INs to see how it might work from a slot perspective.

It is an example only, assuming a heavy clean out of uncontracted players, plus Jake:

Robert Murphy = Save for minimum ND pick 1
Matthew Boyd = Save for minimum ND pick 2
Declan Hamilton = Save for Roarke Smith Rookie Upgrade (In essence our minimum 3rd ND pick)
Mitch Honeychurch = Save position for Jackson Trengove trade
Stewart Crameri = Save position for Hayden Crozier trade, or extra ND pick or another unspecified trade
Jake Stringer = Save position for J Impey trade, or extra ND pick or another unspecified trade
Tom Campbell = Save for extra ND pick or unspecified player trade (e.g S Martin)

[hujsh]

I think it's fair to say that he arrived back from his break in not great condition and struggled most of the season. He wouldn't want to come back from a break in less than ideal condition again.
I'm not sure about his trade value though.

Might be more a case of finding him an alternate home to free up spaces on the list.

[GVGjr]

I've just thrown the following together, as much for my own interest, using your indicated INs to see how it might work from a slot perspective.

It is an example only, assuming a heavy clean out of uncontracted players, plus Jake:

Robert Murphy = Save for minimum ND pick 1
Matthew Boyd = Save for minimum ND pick 2
Declan Hamilton = Save for Roarke Smith Rookie Upgrade (In essence our minimum 3rd ND pick)
Mitch Honeychurch = Save position for Jackson Trengove trade
Stewart Crameri = Save position for Hayden Crozier trade, or extra ND pick or another unspecified trade
Jake Stringer = Save position for J Impey trade, or extra ND pick or another unspecified trade
Tom Campbell = Save for extra ND pick or unspecified player trade (e.g S Martin)

Thanks Doc, if we assume that Smith gets an upgrade and we keep players with contracts then it's just two picks in what I feel is a reasonably strong draft although not one with a lot of KPP. We have once again showed faith in a list that seriously under performed and I don't believe that is the right approach.

Assuming our interest in Impey and Crozier is around the mark and Trengove is locked in it means we probably have to cough up picks 26 and 39 to acquire them leaving us pick 9 and something much later on in the draft for our two selections.

J-Mac needs to get to work and open up some more spots for us.





If we have the salary cap room then I'd be prepared to break a contract .

[LostDoggy]

I think you need to be really careful about scenarios where popular clubmen are discarded under contract. Think it could be really detrimental to the culture.

[G-Mo77]

I think you need to be really careful about scenarios where popular clubmen are discarded under contract. Think it could be really detrimental to the culture.

I don't know exactly what went on behind the scenes this season but our culture has come into question a lot. Maybe some of the "boys" getting sent to another club wouldn't hurt overall.

I think we need at least 4 picks in the draft on top of any Free agent/trade we may make.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't know exactly what went on behind the scenes this season but our culture has come into question a lot. Maybe some of the "boys" getting sent to another club wouldn't hurt overall.

I was thinking something similar. It might not have been a hangover after all this year. It might be some good footballer/s ripping the fabric of the culture Bevo has been creating. If some go, as you say, it might not be a bad thing overall.

[Sedat]

Thanks Doc, if we assume that Smith gets an upgrade and we keep players with contracts then it's just two picks in what I feel is a reasonably strong draft. We have once again showed faith in a list that seriously under performed and I don't believe that is the right approach.

Assuming our interest in Impey and Crozier is around the mark and Trengove is locked in it means we probably have to cough up picks 26 and 39 to acquire them leaving us pick 9 and something much later on in the draft for our two selections.

J-Mac needs to get to work and open up some more spots for us.





If we have the salary cap room then I'd be prepared to break a contract .
I'm a little torn on our approach and can see positives and negatives in both. Richmond won a flag off the back of really astute trading - no superstars but fantastic role players who released other players to be so much more damaging. So I like the idea of picking up good AFL players like Trengove, Crozier and Impey, all of whom can play roles to release our other players to be more damaging elsewhere. But I also want to plunder the draft and turn over the list because we still need to keep bringing in young talent - premiership teams have superstars that are home grown and not big name trades (Dangerfield, Buddy, Tippett, Deledio, Griffen, etc..)

Happy to name names in relation to who I'd consider trading right now, even if they are under contract - Campbell, Clay Smith, Dickson, Redders, Roberts. That's too many obviously but we'd be derelict in our duty not to at least explore getting a stronger draft position either this year or for future picks next year.

[Twodogs]

I think you need to be really careful about scenarios where popular clubmen are discarded under contract. Think it could be really detrimental to the culture.


Indeed. It's a legal and ethical minefield too.

I'm reading The Hafey Years ATM. It's an interesting book Because despite the name it is mainly about Graeme Richmond (obviously calling the Richmond years would been silly;) ) . He cleared Brian Roberts to South Melbourne to get John Pitura (along with Graham Teasdale who won a Brownlow medal and Francis Jackson one of the original quarter back types in the AFL) but a lot of the Richmond playing group said that Roberts departure tore a lot of the fabric out of the culture of the club. They talk about how he wasn't the greatest player but he was a champion teammate.

[GVGjr]

I'm a little torn on our approach and can see positives and negatives in both. Richmond won a flag off the back of really astute trading - no superstars but fantastic role players who released other players to be so much more damaging. So I like the idea of picking up good AFL players like Trengove, Crozier and Impey, all of whom can play roles to release our other players to be more damaging elsewhere. But I also want to plunder the draft and turn over the list because we still need to keep bringing in young talent - premiership teams have superstars that are home grown and not big name trades (Dangerfield, Buddy, Tippett, Deledio, Griffen, etc..)

Happy to name names in relation to who I'd consider trading right now, even if they are under contract - Campbell, Clay Smith, Dickson, Redders, Roberts. That's too many obviously but we'd be derelict in our duty not to at least explore getting a stronger draft position either this year or for future picks next year.

You have named most of the players I would consider to open up spots if they don't display the right approach. If anyone comes back from the break in a less than acceptable condition or doesn't display the right attitude then we have to set a very high standard. Sometimes sending a message to the group that the party is over needs to be done.

We do need to turn the list over and I think we need 5 picks at draft but I could settle for 4.

[Twodogs]

I'm a little torn on our approach and can see positives and negatives in both. Richmond won a flag off the back of really astute trading - no superstars but fantastic role players who released other players to be so much more damaging. So I like the idea of picking up good AFL players like Trengove, Crozier and Impey, all of whom can play roles to release our other players to be more damaging elsewhere. But I also want to plunder the draft and turn over the list because we still need to keep bringing in young talent - premiership teams have superstars that are home grown and not big name trades (Dangerfield, Buddy, Tippett, Deledio, Griffen, etc..)

Happy to name names in relation to who I'd consider trading right now, even if they are under contract - Campbell, Clay Smith, Dickson, Redders, Roberts. That's too many obviously but we'd be derelict in our duty not to at least explore getting a stronger draft position either this year or for future picks next year.





You have named most of the players I would consider to open up spots if they don't display the right approach. If anyone comes back from the break in a less than acceptable condition or doesn't display the right attitude then we have to set a very high standard. Sometimes sending a message to the group that the party is over needs to be done.

We do need to turn the list over and I think we need 5 picks at draft but I could settle for 4.


What type of player would you bring in? I'm giving you 5 spots. I have tapped Campbell, Crameri, Redpath, Roberts and Webb on the shoulder and they are gone. If you can good deal for the club and need the spots or if you think we need to keep one of the above then I can call Clay Smith, Dickson and Suckling into my office and explain they now have a new opportunity in life. So that's 8 if you really need them.

[bornadog]

I am happy to go to the draft and pick 3 draftees and trade for three good players. I don't believe we need a massive turnover of players.

[GVGjr]

I am happy to go to the draft and pick 3 draftees and trade for three good players. I don't believe we need a massive turnover of players.

What are you basing this approach off? Surely not the 2017 season?

[Remi Moses]

Gotta say not sold on 5 picks in a weak draft . I'd be surprised, no shocked, if players came back to pre-season training with a poor attitude . Clarkson was on record saying he didn't make enough list changes ( initially) after 08, as teams flew past them .

[Remi Moses]

I am happy to go to the draft and pick 3 draftees and trade for three good players. I don't believe we need a massive turnover of players.

I'm hoping we make a few more changes than that

[DOG GOD]

Gone: murphy, Boyd, Crameri, stringer, honeychurch, Hamilton, Roberts/c.smith (7)

In: Trengove, crozier, Impey (3)

Unfortunately R. Smith to be delisted for mine.

4 picks in the draft.

[GVGjr]

What type of player would you bring in? I'm giving you 5 spots. I have tapped Campbell, Crameri, Redpath, Roberts and Webb on the shoulder and they are gone. If you can good deal for the club and need the spots or if you think we need to keep one of the above then I can call Clay Smith, Dickson and Suckling into my office and explain they now have a new opportunity in life. So that's 8 if you really need them.

The type of players are easy, competitive and hungry types that want to succeed.
Balancing that out is the difficult part.

We would need a ruckman type if Campbell was to depart.

Remember in 12 months time we will be looking to potentially add a father son pick and maybe an academy player. This is why I think we need to have a few more changes this year.

[GVGjr]

Gotta say not sold on 5 picks in a weak draft . I'd be surprised, no shocked, if players came back to pre-season training with a poor attitude . Clarkson was on record saying he didn't make enough list changes ( initially) after 08, as teams flew past them .

Why do you regard it as weak draft?

[GVGjr]

Gone: murphy, Boyd, Crameri, stringer, honeychurch, Hamilton, Roberts/c.smith (7)

In: Trengove, crozier, Impey (3)

Unfortunately R. Smith to be delisted for mine.

4 picks in the draft.

Thats a reasonable approach

[Twodogs]

Why do you regard it as weak draft?


Most of the early guff was this draft had five or maybe six stand out candidates and then it fell away or evened out depending on the article. That narrative has changed since the championships (as it usually does, I don't know why we try and judge the strength of the draft in May. It's like rolling out the Christmas decorations in September.) but maybe Remi was going by the early reviews.

[Topdog]

The type of players are easy, competitive and hungry types that want to succeed.
Balancing that out is the difficult part.

We would need a ruckman type if Campbell was to depart.

Remember in 12 months time we will be looking to potentially add a father son pick and maybe an academy player. This is why I think we need to have a few more changes this year.

Sorry I'm confused why we need to turn the list over more this year because we have 2 players coming in next year that we know already. They are still 2 draft picks, doesn't matter that they are f/s

[ratsmac]

I'd seriously like us to at least have a chat to Jack Watts seeing that it's looking likely that Stringer and Crameri will be shipped off. Depending of what Melbourne want for him, he'd fill a need.

I'd be happy only bringing in a couple of kids in the draft as our list is still quite young. I felt we got caught out a bit this year with too many kids having to fill in and they weren't quite ready.

[Rocco Jones]

Really unsure of the Watts, Stringer, Crameri types the way the game is being played. I think it's tall or small who can apply pressure. These guys really need to be 60 goals a year types or they quickly become a liability as they don't really bring the ball to ground or apply defensive pressure.

[comrade]

Really unsure of the Watts, Stringer, Crameri types the way the game is being played. I think it's tall or small who can apply pressure. These guys really need to be 60 goals a year types or they quickly become a liability as they don't really bring the ball to ground or apply defensive pressure.

Yep. I would take a 20-25 goal a year pacy small who pressures all day vs a 40-50 goal mid sized forward that hasn't got the athleticism or intent to pressure any day of the week.

It's weird, but I think we should structure up exactly like Richmond have this year, who kind of copied what we did in 2015/2016.

[bulldogtragic]

Yep. I would take a 20-25 goal a year pacy small who pressures all day vs a 40-50 goal mid sized forward that hasn't got the athleticism or intent to pressure.

Well we don't have one as of today. The closest thing we have is Clay Smith... Interesting that we've not sought to address it at draft or trade recently while most clubs have.

[Sedat]

Really unsure of the Watts, Stringer, Crameri types the way the game is being played. I think it's tall or small who can apply pressure. These guys really need to be 60 goals a year types or they quickly become a liability as they don't really bring the ball to ground or apply defensive pressure.
Tom Lynch is a potential counter to your argument but he was found wanting yesterday when the heat was really on. Mid-sized connectors who have elite endurance are nice to have but they need to work just as hard the other way. The 3 guys you mentioned don't, and neither does Lynch and he's the best in the comp in that role.

[Twodogs]

Yep. I would take a 20-25 goal a year pacy small who pressures all day vs a 40-50 goal mid sized forward that hasn't got the athleticism or intent to pressure any day of the week.

It's weird, but I think we should structure up exactly like Richmond have this year, who kind of copied what we did in 2015/2016.


We were doing it out of necessity in 2008-9. There was a game in Canberra v Sydney when we held an 8 point lead for the last 20 minutes by locking the ball down on the half forward line and creating contest after contest with a bunch of midgets swarming on the ball and falling on top of it.

[GVGjr]

Most of the early guff was this draft had five or maybe six stand out candidates and then it fell away or evened out depending on the article. That narrative has changed since the championships (as it usually does, I don't know why we try and judge the strength of the draft in May. It's like rolling out the Christmas decorations in September.) but maybe Remi was going by the early reviews.

Maybe it's the wording that I'm challenging but to me it's a draft without a lot of top end talent but I don't regard it as a weak one at all in fact I think it's quite a deep draft.

[GVGjr]

I don't know exactly what went on behind the scenes this season but our culture has come into question a lot. Maybe some of the "boys" getting sent to another club wouldn't hurt overall.

I think we need at least 4 picks in the draft on top of any Free agent/trade we may make.

There has to be a real question mark on the culture and leadership displayed this year and splitting up any disruptive groups that didn't buy in this season just isn't something you can tinker around with.

I agree with the numbers you have suggested

[azabob]

All things point to going to the draft with 3 picks only - which likely will include Smith being upgraded.

Traditionally we have been conservative with delisting numbers.

Each year since at least 2008 GVGjr has suggested we need cut at least 2 more than we end up cutting.

[GVGjr]

All things point to going to the draft with 3 picks only - which likely will include Smith being upgraded.

Traditionally we have been conservative with delisting numbers.

Each year since at least 2008 GVGjr has suggested we need cut at least 2 more than we end up cutting.

Yep, back in 2008 we misread the draft the impact of the new teams coming in and we didn't factor the pending father son selections. A couple of years later everyone was of course moaning about the state of the list and blaming the AFL for it. Mind you players like Mulligan being reatained for 2 years longer than he should have escaped the focus.
We kept marginal players on the list for longer than ideal and I think we paid a price for it. You can be passive or active with list management and I'd prefer the latter given we aren't great at acquiring the bigger name players unless we spend a fortune.

The last few years have been particularly low turnovers of players and now after a poor season with a number of distractions we are putting the faith in a list that let us down. We will probably make 3 changes this year and much like in 2008 and pay for it later on.

[Rocco Jones]

Tom Lynch is a potential counter to your argument but he was found wanting yesterday when the heat was really on. Mid-sized connectors who have elite endurance are nice to have but they need to work just as hard the other way. The 3 guys you mentioned don't, and neither does Lynch and he's the best in the comp in that role.

Lynch is far more team orientated that Jake and Jack. Crameri played a similar role in late 2015, I just doubt his body allowing him to be a constant hit up. Also his kicking/decision making going inside 50 isn't at Lynch's level (neither is Stringer's, Watts has decent IQ when he is on).


Yep. I would take a 20-25 goal a year pacy small who pressures all day vs a 40-50 goal mid sized forward that hasn't got the athleticism or intent to pressure any day of the week.

It's weird, but I think we should structure up exactly like Richmond have this year, who kind of copied what we did in 2015/2016.

Yeah looking at their small forwards goal/tackle average for the year...


Townsend: 3.2 goals, 4 tackles
Butler: 1.3 goals, 4 tackles
Graham: 1 goal, 7 tackles
Castagna: 1.1 goals, 3 tackles
Lambert: 0.6 goals, 5 tackles
Rioli: 1 goal, 3 tackles

Townsend stats a bit warped by playing so few games but so many small forwards averaging at least 3-4 tackles a game. Caddy and Edwards also in that tackle category. Their small forward prototype = 25 goals a year type + 4 tackles a game. Compare that to Menzel who the footy world were shocked when dropped by the Cats. He kicked 40 goals this year but only averaged 1 tackle a game. Massive out for the opposition, breaks the chain. I don't think you can have your cake or eat it too. If you want the Tigers forward line pressure, you can't have a player who opts out of pressure (unless they are a Coleman medal threat type).

[Rocco Jones]

Impey and Crozier fit into the pressure small forward role.

Impey averaged about 1 goal + 3 tackles when forward this year.

Crozier played forward in his last 6 games when Freo were struggled. He averaged about a goal + more than 4 tackles a game.

[Remi Moses]

It's hard to make household changes with contracted players . It's all very well advocating more changes than the club actually does, but it's more difficult with players contracted .

[azabob]

It's hard to make household changes with contracted players . It's all very well advocating more changes than the club actually does, but it's more difficult with players contracted .

Which begs the question why did we re-sign a few fringe players on 12 month deals.

[ledge]

Which begs the question why did we re-sign a few fringe players on 12 month deals.

Well could be a few reasons
1 if we want to trade them we have a say and more asking power.
2 the club rates them more than we do and they would know more than us.
3 might be no one better in the positions they play around.
4 we have put in the time and they are expected to come good next year.
5 they were kept because they will fill in for retired players or step up while younger ones come on, eg Campbell / English.

[jazzadogs]

The last few years have been particularly low turnovers of players and now after a poor season with a number of distractions we are putting the faith in a list that let us down. We will probably make 3 changes this year and much like in 2008 and pay for it later on.

Having two live draft picks is not the same as making three changes. It's a claim you've repeated a few times that I'm struggling to get my head around.

If we bring in Trengove, Impey and Crozier, upgrade Roarke and have two live picks then that is six changes to the list. As far as I'm aware that is around the number you're advocating.

Half of our list is 21 or under, with our two most experienced players retiring. I understand the push for the draft (and I would probably prefer using a draft pick to trading for Impey), but I don't think it can be argued that we're not turning over the list.

[GVGjr]

Having two live draft picks is not the same as making three changes. It's a claim you've repeated a few times that I'm struggling to get my head around.

If we bring in Trengove, Impey and Crozier, upgrade Roarke and have two live picks then that is six changes to the list. As far as I'm aware that is around the number you're advocating.

Half of our list is 21 or under, with our two most experienced players retiring. I understand the push for the draft (and I would probably prefer using a draft pick to trading for Impey), but I don't think it can be argued that we're not turning over the list.

It's how you assess the list and if you believe we will bounce back quickly. To me 5 changes is a reasonable starting point most years.
By the way, can we say Smith is a change to the playing list? I've never really counted rookie upgrades as changes to the list because we are really just shuffling the cards a bit.
If there were no queries on the culture and the application of some in the playing group perhaps you could just tinker around the edges but from what we know in a reasonable sense we have 5 players leaving the club, one coming in via FA and one being upgraded. That leaves 3 spots for the draft. If we acquire just one other player via a trade that leaves two live picks.

Things change if Stringer does find a home though.

[jazzadogs]

It's how you assess the list and if you believe we will bounce back quickly. To me 5 changes is a reasonable starting point most years.
By the way, can we say Smith is a change to the playing list? I've never really counted rookie upgrades as changes to the list because we are really just shuffling the cards a bit.
If there were no queries on the culture and the application of some in the playing group perhaps you could just tinker around the edges but from what we know in a reasonable sense we have 5 players leaving the club, one coming in via FA and one being upgraded. That leaves 3 spots for the draft. If we acquire just one other player via a trade that leaves two live picks.

Things change if Stringer does find a home though.

Roarke's upgrade creates a spot on the rookie list, so I would argue that it is still creating a spot.

I've said it somewhere else but if Stringer does get traded for a top 20 pick and things go as suggested above, and we only have two live picks (9 + Stringer trade) then I hope we trade our other picks for choices next year. Or package up the Stringer pick and 26 for a higher first rounder.

I have no issue with two live picks if they are both in the top 20, plus the trading in of a couple of experienced players.

[GVGjr]

Roarke's upgrade creates a spot on the rookie list, so I would argue that it is still creating a spot.

I've said it somewhere else but if Stringer does get traded for a top 20 pick and things go as suggested above, and we only have two live picks (9 + Stringer trade) then I hope we trade our other picks for choices next year. Or package up the Stringer pick and 26 for a higher first rounder.

I have no issue with two live picks if they are both in the top 20, plus the trading in of a couple of experienced players.

Can I ask why you believe 2 live picks is enough given how poorly we performed?

To me we need to get new players in, new players with positive attitudes and a willingness to work and I don't believe 2 will be anywhere near enough. We also need to put in a better structure to help them thrive and develop.

[jazzadogs]

Can I ask why you believe 2 live picks is enough given how poorly we performed?

To me we need to get new players in, new players with positive attitudes and a willingness to work and I don't believe 2 will be anywhere near enough. We also need to put in a better structure to help them thrive and develop.

2 live picks in the draft, plus Roarke onto the senior list (creating 2 live rookie selections), plus Trengove + Crozier is a good start. I would prefer to have another live pick than chase Impey.

As it was laid out by someone earlier, 1st ND pick (Murphy), 2nd ND pick (Boyd), Trengove (Hamilton), Crozier (Stringer), Roarke (likely Honeychurch), ?extra ND pick or Impey (?Crameri/Campbell/other). + 2x rookie picks (Smith and Prudden).

That's enough changes for me. The Tigers came from 13th last year - we won a flag two years ago - 5-6 changes to the list is a more than acceptable option, backing in those on our list to return to the form that made us the best team in the comp 12 months ago.

[Bulldog Revolution]

In my eyes we should be adding 4 kids every year and see no reason why this year should be different

I suspect this and the uncertainty of who is coming in is why th futures of Honeychurch, Crameri and Smith aren't yet clear

Every year there are outstanding rookie picks so I never believe that there aren't 80 amazing prospects in the u18s or state leagues

[macca]

We need to find a :
Nathan Broad/Astbury/ Luke Ryan type as backline player
Jack Graham / Dan Butler small forward

Disenchanted ruck like Nankervis !

We need to be brave with cutting the list. Hamilton staying last year we missed out one of those type of players

[GVGjr]

We need to find a :
Nathan Broad/Astbury/ Luke Ryan type as backline player
Jack Graham / Dan Butler small forward

Disenchanted ruck like Nankervis !

We need to be brave with cutting the list. Hamilton staying last year we missed out one of those type of players

Broad and Ryan came from the state leagues with late picks and we probably did that with Marcus Adams albeit not a late pick. It's not a bad option

Astbury is just a tall defender who got better over the last two years.

Graham was a highly rated leader from the SA U18 side and highlights the value of getting quality youngsters into the side. Butler was a late pick.

Nankervis was a solid trade.

Richmonds success this year shows the value of or how drafting, trading and development compliment a good coach.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Not too fussed with the 'number' of list changes, rather, we simply need to be ruthless in cutting players who aren't up to the level.

Hooper, Mulligan, Prudden and Hamilton are all prime examples of players who never looked up to it yet we kept on for FAR too long. It was awful management of a list.

Out: Prudden, Hamilton, Boyd, Murphy, Honeychurch, Lynch (maybe re-rookie) and one of Stringer/Crameri

[GVGjr]

Not too fussed with the 'number' of list changes, rather, we simply need to be ruthless in cutting players who aren't up to the level.

Hooper, Mulligan, Prudden and Hamilton are all prime examples of players who never looked up to it yet we kept on for FAR too long. It was awful management of a list.

Out: Prudden, Hamilton, Boyd, Murphy, Honeychurch, Lynch (maybe re-rookie) and one of Stringer/Crameri

Agreed, we need to have that strong approach to list management. You can carry a player or two after a good season but not after the one we had.

[ledge]

Agreed, we need to have that strong approach to list management. You can carry a player or two after a good season but not after the one we had.

I guess it comes to the question are their better players that we can get, no good delisting or trading players if you can't get better than they are.

[GVGjr]

If we are to back the list as many are suggesting and take just 2 live picks into the draft should we shop pick 9 around as the centerpiece of acquiring the best possible player like Gaff or even someone like Saad?

[ratsmac]

Not too fussed with the 'number' of list changes, rather, we simply need to be ruthless in cutting players who aren't up to the level.

Hooper, Mulligan, Prudden and Hamilton are all prime examples of players who never looked up to it yet we kept on for FAR too long. It was awful management of a list.

Out: Prudden, Hamilton, Boyd, Murphy, Honeychurch, Lynch (maybe re-rookie) and one of Stringer/Crameri
Yep, genuine list cloggers. We have to be more diligent in identifying if they actually have what it takes to make a regular AFL player. If not cut our loses early before we invest too much into them.

[Ghost Dog]

Not too fussed with the 'number' of list changes, rather, we simply need to be ruthless in cutting players who aren't up to the level.

Hooper, Mulligan, Prudden and Hamilton are all prime examples of players who never looked up to it yet we kept on for FAR too long. It was awful management of a list.

Out: Prudden, Hamilton, Boyd, Murphy, Honeychurch, Lynch (maybe re-rookie) and one of Stringer/Crameri

Oh boy. Mulligan, Hooper - the very mention of those names makes me laugh.

[Topdog]

If we are to back the list as many are suggesting and take just 2 live picks into the draft should we shop pick 9 around as the centerpiece of acquiring the best possible player like Gaff or even someone like Saad?

Bring in 3 players by trade and free agency along with 2 live picks is still a turnover of at least 5 players. How many new players are needed to refresh the list in your opinion?

[GVGjr]

Bring in 3 players by trade and free agency along with 2 live picks is still a turnover of at least 5 players. How many new players are needed to refresh the list in your opinion?

That's a different question to what I posed, I'm saying if we only take 2 live picks into the draft should we trade pick 9 to get the best possible player with senior experience rather than drafting the best youngster available?

We have delisted/retired 3 players. Murphy, MBoyd and Hamilton.
We have 2 players in limbo in Honeychurch and Crameri but are most likely gone and we are somewhat confident that Trengove is heading our way. On top of that R.Smith seems like an upgrade to a senior spot. That leaves us with 4 live picks, 3 if we upgrade Smith and 2 if we trade for another player.

Now if we trade Stinger that changes it slightly.

So my question is should we trade pick 9 for an established player or use it as one of the 3 live picks?

[bulldogtragic]

That's a different question to what I posed, I'm saying if we only take 2 live picks into the draft should we trade pick 9 to get the best possible player with senior experience rather than drafting the best youngster available?

We have delisted/retired 3 players. Murphy, MBoyd and Hamilton.
We have 2 players in limbo in Honeychurch and Crameri but are most likely gone and we are somewhat confident that Trengove is heading our way. On top of that R.Smith seems like an upgrade to a senior spot. That leaves us with 4 live picks, 3 if we upgrade Smith and 2 if we trade for another player.

Now if we trade Stinger that changes it slightly.

So my question is should we trade pick 9 for an established player or use it as one of the 2 live picks?

I'm open to trading any pick for the right player. I'm open to trading any player for the right pick. But who seems gettable with pick 9 that may be on the market and who would pick us over other clubs?

[GVGjr]

I'm open to trading any pick for the right player. I'm open to trading any player for the right pick. But who seems gettable with pick 9 that may be on the market and who would pick us over other clubs?

I listed Gaff, mentioned Saad and others will no doubt appear once it all heats up.

[Go_Dogs]

That's a different question to what I posed, I'm saying if we only take 2 live picks into the draft should we trade pick 9 to get the best possible player with senior experience rather than drafting the best youngster available?

We have delisted/retired 3 players. Murphy, MBoyd and Hamilton.
We have 2 players in limbo in Honeychurch and Crameri but are most likely gone and we are somewhat confident that Trengove is heading our way. On top of that R.Smith seems like an upgrade to a senior spot. That leaves us with 4 live picks, 3 if we upgrade Smith and 2 if we trade for another player.

Now if we trade Stinger that changes it slightly.

So my question is should we trade pick 9 for an established player or use it as one of the 3 live picks?

My preference would be to keep the top 10 pick.

It's 4 drafts ago we last used a pick earlier than 19 and with the players on offer, it's a good year to go the draft and try to add another high quality youngster, potentially 2 if Stringer leaves.

[bulldogtragic]

I listed Gaff, mentioned Saad and others will no doubt appear once it all heats up.

What pick would you want back to even out a top 10 pick trade?

[GVGjr]

What pick would you want back to even out a top 10 pick trade?

Doesn't it depend on the player? It's the concept of trading for an established player or taking the best player at the draft with pick 9 I'm asking about

[bulldogtragic]

Doesn't it depend on the player? It's the concept of trading for an established player or taking the best player at the draft with pick 9 I'm asking about

For the right player, for a good trade, we should be looking at any option that improves our list. Pick 9 is great, but it's not a dead certainty. If pick 9 can land us a very good proven player, that's a good option too. It's all in detail, but as concept, sure.

[ratsmac]

I'd still be chasing Lever. The whisper is that negotiations with Melbourne are breaking down and Collingwood are ready to pounce. If we put our first and what ever we get for Stringer will satisfy Adelaide. I'd be asking for a pick in return though.

[jazzadogs]

I'd happily give up pick 9 for Gaff - a 25 year old elite outside ball winner and runner with good foot skills. 156 games, #4 in the 2010 draft. We have the inside grunt more or less covered, I'd be very happy to add him on the outside.

2017 stats
6th most disposals in the comp (ave 29.7)
Disposal efficiency 74% (4th most efficient disposals in the comp)
Averages over 400m gained per game
Stoppage clearances 1.8 per game
Tackle numbers are poor (ave 2.0 per game)

[1eyedog]

I'd happily give up pick 9 for Gaff - a 25 year old elite outside ball winner and runner with good foot skills. 156 games, #4 in the 2010 draft. We have the inside grunt more or less covered, I'd be very happy to add him on the outside.

2017 stats
6th most disposals in the comp (ave 29.7)
Disposal efficiency 74% (4th most efficient disposals in the comp)
Averages over 400m gained per game
Stoppage clearances 1.8 per game
Tackle numbers are poor (ave 2.0 per game)

Yep he's who I'd go after hard as well.

[Twodogs]

Yep I'm in for Gaff. We really need a better transition plan "get the ball to JJ" "get it to Gaff" would make us twice as dangerous.

[Bullies]

Yep I'm in for Gaff. We really need a better transition plan "get the ball to JJ" "get it to Gaff" would make us twice as dangerous.Agree that we try to get Gaff. We have enough in and unders but need some polish and this guy is an elite outsider.

[GVGjr]

Agree that we try to get Gaff. We have enough in and unders but need some polish and this guy is an elite outsider.

I wonder if he is actually available? We will probably be aggressive in our trading approach but West Coast would need to be fully compensated and he wouldn't come cheap.

[GVGjr]

Given the way the role of the 2nd ruckman works now should we run the ruler over Jack Watts again? Between he and Boyd we could cover and support required for Roughead. It could also mean that we could go in with a smaller forward set-up

[jeemak]

Given the way the role of the 2nd ruckman works now should we run the ruler over Jack Watts again? Between he and Boyd we could cover and support required for Roughead. It could also mean that we could go in with a smaller forward set-up

It's interesting that everyone's rubbing Hardwick's tummy for employing the ruck tactic we did out of necessity earlier in the year, throughout the finals series. Essentially, like us, Hardwick has since stated he'd prefer to have a competent second tall forward who can play in the ruck to act as second to Nankervis.

To avoid having to get too funky with our ruck again next year we really need to have both Boyd and Roughead fit, and if we are able to secure Trengove then we wouldn't really need Watts to play any time in the ruck under normal circumstances.

Having said that, I'd be looking at Watts for some outside polish and finishing skills which we sorely need.

[bulldogtragic]

Losing Stew, Jake and Redders has dodgy knees. Roughy has an obvious injury history which could rule him out for periods and force Boyd to ruck for long periods. Jack Watts at the right price would be a handy addition with vacancies up forward, at a good price.

[Rocket Science]

I'd have a long look at Watts. Not because he's particularly attractive but because we're just shy of desperate.

Assuming Crameri & Stringer are gone and given screaming question marks over the ability of Dickson & Smith to recover form - if they even stay - we really are constructing a whole new forward line from scratch.

On a properly balanced team, Redders is depth. Cloke's in a vaguely similar boat and no longer a reliable avenue to goal. Boyd's neither been groomed nor inclined to be a key forward right now, let alone *the* key forward.

Short of poaching a genuine goal threat via trade it's going to be Bevo's magic pudding up forward in 2018.

[Sedat]

I think we are looking at the wrong area of the ground to bolster. If we bring in the right players in the midfield we can instantaneously make our 1st tier mids far more dangerous in other parts of the ground. No reason whatsoever why someone like Bont can't nudge 35-40 goals next year in the way Danger and Martin have been deployed in 2017. Our mids as a collective need to be more dangerous with their possessions.

I'm not a fan of bringing in players who are one position/one area. As an example Watts is nothing other than a forward. Will he be that much of an upgrade on Cloke or Redders to justify the trade outlay? He won't improve our ability to pressure the opposition rebounders and lock the ball into F50 that's for certain.

[dog town]

I think we are looking at the wrong area of the ground to bolster. If we bring in the right players in the midfield we can instantaneously make our 1st tier mids far more dangerous in other parts of the ground. No reason whatsoever why someone like Bont can't nudge 35-40 goals next year in the way Danger and Martin have been deployed in 2017. Our mids as a collective need to be more dangerous with their possessions.

I'm not a fan of bringing in players who are one position/one area. As an example Watts is nothing other than a forward. Will he be that much of an upgrade on Cloke or Redders to justify the trade outlay? He won't improve our ability to pressure the opposition rebounders and lock the ball into F50 that's for certain. I agree with this. Our best performance in the second half of the year came against Essendon. In that game we played Bont forward, Dahlhaus forward for pressure and swung JJ forward in patches. It is definitely something I would be looking at doing more regularly at the very least. To do that we need more quality in the areas that those guys play. We definitely don't need any more key position player unless they offer something really unique or damaging.

We don't have an enormous amount of top end talent so we need to be able to use the players that do have unique abilities with as much versatility as we can.

[Doc26]

Given the success that Richmond has had this season in opting for a small forward setup, that relies more on pressure acts than bringing elite skill do we need to re-think the value of Honeychurch in our line up. Looking at Richmond's smalls in Butler, Castagna, Bolton etc they are not far removed from what Mitch can offer us in bringing back the forward pressure that we had shown pre 2016.

All of a sudden I can see Mitch's value in the market rise significantly but I'm re-thinking whether losing him would come at a greater loss to us.

[Rocket Science]

Deploying our more creative/dangerous players forward is great provided we've got the ammo to cover their absence upfield when we do.

In 2017 we scored fewer points than everyone not named Fremantle, Gold Coast or Carlton. A plan to better that awful record better be near the top of the list.

[Sedat]

Given the success that Richmond has had this season in opting for a small forward setup, that relies more on pressure acts than bringing elite skill do we need to re-think the value of Honeychurch in our line up. Looking at Richmond's smalls in Butler, Castagna, Bolton etc they are not far removed from what Mitch can offer us in bringing back the forward pressure that we had shown pre 2016.

All of a sudden I can see Mitch's value in the market rise significantly but I'm re-thinking whether losing him would come at a greater loss to us.
Reckon Honeychurch doesn't have the raw pace to sustain the repeat defensive efforts. He certainly has the right mindset but the lack of pace prevents him from being able to effectively mimic the Richmond mosquito fleet, who are all extremely quick and have big tanks.

[Twodogs]

I think we are looking at the wrong area of the ground to bolster. If we bring in the right players in the midfield we can instantaneously make our 1st tier mids far more dangerous in other parts of the ground. No reason whatsoever why someone like Bont can't nudge 35-40 goals next year in the way Danger and Martin have been deployed in 2017. Our mids as a collective need to be more dangerous with their possessions.

I'm not a fan of bringing in players who are one position/one area. As an example Watts is nothing other than a forward. Will he be that much of an upgrade on Cloke or Redders to justify the trade outlay? He won't improve our ability to pressure the opposition rebounders and lock the ball into F50 that's for certain.


I tend to agree but what's your thoughts on a ruckman who can't drift forward and kick a goal or float across half back and take a relieving mark? A ruckman who is just a ruckman. Who is good at being a ruckman and will bring the mids into the game by directing the ball their way and creating space for them to run into. And take a few overhead marks around the ground.

I'd love to bring a pure ruckman into the playing group.

[GVGjr]

I'm still interested in Adam Saad, any suggestions on what we could do to get him?

[Axe Man]

I'm still interested in Adam Saad, any suggestions on what we could do to get him?

You would think a second round pick would be around the mark. The problem is our second round pick has also been linked to trades for Impey and Stringer (given back to Essendon for pick 11). Of course next years pick could also come into play.

Only Essendon and Carlton seem to have been linked so far but I think he would be a better acquisition than Impey.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm still interested in Adam Saad, any suggestions on what we could do to get him?

Pick 26 is probably what he'd cost, give or take a little more.

I wouldn't think we could nab both Impey and Saad but I would love either one of them.

Not sure if the Suns would see any appeal in Crameri, Honeychurch, Campbell etc. Future picks could be in play but having said that, not sure he will be somebody that we target.

[GVGjr]

You would think a second round pick would be around the mark. The problem is our second round pick has also been linked to trades for Impey and Stringer (given back to Essendon for pick 11). Of course next years pick could also come into play.

Only Essendon and Carlton seem to have been linked so far but I think he would be a better acquisition than Impey.


Pick 26 is probably what he'd cost, give or take a little more.

I wouldn't think we could nab both Impey and Saad but I would love either one of them.

Not sure if the Suns would see any appeal in Crameri, Honeychurch, Campbell etc. Future picks could be in play but having said that, not sure he will be somebody that we target.

We would need to get very creative to land both of them. Might have to work some magic with pick 9.

[Mofra]

I'm still interested in Adam Saad, any suggestions on what we could do to get him?
Suns seem to have plenty of second round picks this year already, they seem to want players. Not sure we have anyone they want that would actually go there.

[GVGjr]

Suns seem to have plenty of second round picks this year already, they seem to want players. Not sure we have anyone they want that would actually go there.

The might come at an early pick though with one or hose 2nd rounders coming back. They seem to be willing to deal to help him get back home.

[kruder]

I'm still interested in Adam Saad, any suggestions on what we could do to get him?

Has anyone mentioned who has has been linked to? All I’ve read is that going home is a possibility just have no feel for where.

[1eyedog]

Has anyone mentioned who has has been linked to? All I’ve read is that going home is a possibility just have no feel for where.

Carlton and Essendon of course, who else!

[GVGjr]

Carlton and Essendon of course, who else!

It makes sense for Essendon given their love of JJ and Carlton just keep trying to give good players a chance to return to Melbourne

Hopefully we can it least give his manager a call

[boydogs]

Adelaide were the best team of 2017, and they had the tallest forward line. Richmond getting the home ground advantage and standing up on GF day doesn't mean their mosquito fleet is suddenly the way to go

If we manage to land a few of the players being mentioned (Trengove, Crozier, Impey) then it might be worth a chat to some of our contracted players to see whether they are open to a move. Shipping them off against their will though is not consistent with upgrading Roarke Smith for team culture reasons

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Sounds like the hawks are the favourites to get Impey. Think their offer is better than ours.

[bulldogtragic]

Sounds like the hawks are the favourites to get Impey. Think their offer is better than ours.

Money or trade?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Money or trade?

money.

I imagine the hawks would offer 32. We can trump that with our second if we really want him

[Bulldog4life]

Sounds like the hawks are the favourites to get Impey. Think their offer is better than ours.

Having Burgoyne and Rioli there could be enticing for Impey too. The brothers do like being close. Understandable.

[bulldogtragic]

The free agency pool is low now. Surprisingly Hawthorn seem to have left Taylor Duryea out there, probably trying to get something in compo to trade with. Any interest?

[GVGjr]

The free agency pool is low now. Surprisingly Hawthorn seem to have left Taylor Duryea out there, probably trying to get something in compo to trade with. Any interest?

We don't have the spots for more than 2 FA unless we trade Stringer.

At the moment the 2nd spot might come down to Crozier or Impey

[GVGjr]

Just read a tweet that Crameri could be staying on a one year deal.

If that is happening it could be a significant decision

[Axe Man]

Just read a tweet that Crameri could be staying on a one year deal.

If that is happening it could be a significant decision

Regardless of whether Stringer stays or goes I think it's a good decision given we would be lucky to get anything for him at the trade table.

[1eyedog]

Yep the possible return on Crameri next year far outweighs what we would get at the negotiation table. I guess Essendon have turned their back on him given the focus on Stringer, Smith and Saad.

[GVGjr]

Regardless of whether Stringer stays or goes I think it's a good decision given we would be lucky to get anything for him at the trade table.

I think he is worth trying to keep and this is just some speculation at the moment.

BT suggested a while back that we move Crameri to the rookie list and I think this is what this speculation is indicating.

[Doc26]

Just read a tweet that Crameri could be staying on a one year deal.

If that is happening it could be a significant decision

If it's the same tweet as I saw, the indication from the chap was as a rookie which, if true, seems odd to me that his value in the market would've diminished so much.

[GVGjr]

If it's the same tweet as I saw, the indication from the chap was as a rookie which, if true, seems odd to me that his value in the market would've diminished so much.

Yes, it's not a reliable source and one of his previous tweets said Saad would be staying at GC.

If we keep Crammers I'm not sure the rookie list is the right spot for him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Yes, it's not a reliable source and one of his previous tweets said Saad would be staying at GC.

If we keep Crammers I'm not sure the rookie list is the right spot for him.

Agreed - either we want to keep Crameri or we don't. There's no middle ground (ie. rookie listing).

Still have found it a little strange that with one of the worst forward lines in the competition and Stringer on the out that we have been fairly non-committed to Crameri.

[GVGjr]

Agreed - either we want to keep Crameri or we don't. There's no middle ground (ie. rookie listing).

Still have found it a little strange that with one of the worst forward lines in the competition and Stringer on the out that we have been fairly non-committed to Crameri.

Perhaps the commitment to the club hasn't been there. If Stringer is going Crameri is a great replacement.
I agree we can't be half in with him.

[comrade]

Anyone else feeling like our trade period is going to be a total fizzler?

[bulldogtragic]

Anyone else feeling like our trade period is going to be a total fizzler?

Huuugggeeee. Like last year. Hoping to get a big player in, and losing net talent by the end. With a general repudiation of our club by players who could be a part of long term success.

[chef]

Anyone else feeling like our trade period is going to be a total fizzler?

Yeah. Trengove and Crozier will be the ins(happy enough with that but nothing great). We'll Probably settle for something crappy for Stringer(late first-early second pick) and maybe move on Honeychurch.

[GVGjr]

Anyone else feeling like our trade period is going to be a total fizzler?

It could, be I think we will at least be a bit aggressive. Like most years it comes down to if we can land the players we are interested in.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Anyone else feeling like our trade period is going to be a total fizzler?

Feels that way.

If we stuff this up again I'll be quite disillusioned with the club. Considering our high only 12 months ago it shows how far we will have fallen.

As a member this is a make or break period for me. Tired of our soft approach and in the case of Stringer I'd rather lose him for nothing in 2018 than accommodate Essendon now and settle for a rubbish pick.

[Go_Dogs]

Who knows what's on the cards. Unlike some teams, we don't run around talking about deals until they're done. The week hasn't even started yet...

[Remi Moses]

Feels that way.

If we stuff this up again I'll be quite disillusioned with the club. Considering our high only 12 months ago it shows how far we will have fallen.

As a member this is a make or break period for me. Tired of our soft approach and in the case of Stringer I'd rather lose him for nothing in 2018 than accommodate Essendon now and settle for a rubbish pick.

Make or break in being a member ?

[Remi Moses]

Wouldn't mind being more aggressive to fill our needs . Small pressure forward would be nice .
Trengove is a decent addition with his versatility, and haven't paid overs . Not massive on trading just for the sake of it .

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Make or break in being a member ?

Not in a literal sense - been paid up for over 25 years now and that's not about to change, but my emotional investment into the club will take a hit if we effectively roll over again. My passion for AFL has subsided enough based on what the entity is/has been doing over recent years, I hope my club can keep my faith in tact.

[1eyedog]

Not in a literal sense - been paid up for over 25 years now and that's not about to change, but my emotional investment into the club will take a hit if we effectively roll over again. My passion for AFL has subsided enough based on what the entity is/has been doing over recent years, I hope my club can keep my faith in tact.

I only went to a handful of games this year and may do the same next as well. Happy to support the club financially and look on with interest but gone are the days of attending every home game.

[Sedat]

Trengove and Crozier in are positives and give us more AFL standard flexibility on our list, whuch will help out other parts of the ground for us. Impey would have been a nice get as well but I don't think we should be doing excessive trading at the level of a Geelong and their foreigh legion.

The best players in premiership teams invariably tend to be young draffed talent - Martin, Cotchin, Riewoldt and Rance are a pretty decent top 4 at any club and they are all draftees. By all means trade to address structural needs but we should embrace the draft every year.

[GVGjr]

Trengove and Crozier in are positives and give us more AFL standard flexibility on our list, whuch will help out other parts of the ground for us. Impey would have been a nice get as well but I don't think we should be doing excessive trading at the level of a Geelong and their foreigh legion.

The best players in premiership teams invariably tend to be young draffed talent - Martin, Cotchin, Riewoldt and Rance are a pretty decent top 4 at any club and they are all draftees. By all means trade to address structural needs but we should embrace the draft every year.

Good points, I wonder how we rate Crozier vs Impey though? With Trengove locked in adding two players like Crozier and Impey might be a bit over doing it a bit

[GVGjr]

J-Mac is on Trade Radio now

[bulldogsthru&thru]

*Tracked Impey for some time but a lot of water to go under the bridge because he's contracted and other clubs into him. Didn't sound overly confident.
*Confirmed interest in Crozier. Sounds likely to come to us.
*Stringer could still stay at the dogs. No discussions with the bombers as yet. Expecting a high first rounder, not a late one.
*Not overly concerned with ruck stocks
*Relationship with Dalrymple is great. Didn't know where the rumour came from.
*Hopes to stay with the dogs for a long time. "Extremely comfortable and happy at the bulldogs"
*Hoping to built a strategy for sustained success
*Believes Dalhaus is happy at the dogs. No discussions with his management
*Crameri and Honeychurch not offered contracts due to needing to draft 3 players in the draft. It's a wait and see what happens in trade period.
*Essendon leading the race for Stringer but no indication as yet.
*Made mention to amount of time to get deal done with Stringer. Sounds like we could be busy this trade period

[Mantis]

Good points, I wonder how we rate Crozier vs Impey though? With Trengove locked in adding two players like Crozier and Impey might be a bit over doing it a bit

Why?

It's a seriously young list we have heading into 2018 so a couple more mid 20 aged types would be handy additions to the age profile... Probably means HC goes which isn't a bad thing.

[GVGjr]

Just caught some notes for those who cant listen in

We have tracked Impey all season and we are interested
We have talked to Fremantle about Crozier who could play a few positions for us
We think Trengove will be a defender but also do a couple of other roles at times
He could see Stringer with us next season
Stringer is a talent and his management know that if the right offer comes then we could consider it otherwise he stays
We won't gift wrap him for another club and we don't think a late first round pick is sufficient.
Haven't talked to the Bombers yet

The ruck department is something we are always assessing but we aren't that focused on it. It's a changing landscape
Thought the combination of Roughead and Boyd was working well

Draft wise he'd like a 3 or 4 year deals for early draftees

Relationship with Dalrymple is great, we've worked together for 6 years and we are working hard during this period. No idea why there is such speculation between the two

He is working hard and will address his own contract at the end of the season. Very comfortable with the process and sees himself with us going forward

Crameri hasn't been offered a contract same as Honeychurch and it all depends to how we come out of the trade period

Essendon might be leading the race for Stringer. Preliminary discussions with Geelong but nothing serious
It's all about getting a good outcome

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Thanks for the updates.

Really hope we land Impey and I don't mind Crozier to a lesser degree.

We are saying all the right things at the minute, so it'll be interesting to see what happens re Stringer.

[Cyberdoggie]

Jmac obviously pushing the Geelong side and the 'he may remain with us next year' angle to boost his value.
No one likes dealing with Essendon, We will be asking for pick 11 they will be offering 4th round no doubt.

Interesting that when it comes to his own contract he said he sees himself as staying with the bulldogs for a long time.
So why hasn't he signed up yet?

I got the impression from that interview that Jmac knows how to say all the right things very well, but what is actually happening in the background might be a different story.

[GVGjr]

My interpretation is that if we lose Stringer and maybe don't land Crozier then we will offer a contract to Crameri but I think it's basically Stringer or Crameri

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Jmac obviously pushing the Geelong side and the 'he may remain with us next year' angle to boost his value.
No one likes dealing with Essendon, We will be asking for pick 11 they will be offering 4th round no doubt.

Interesting that when it comes to his own contract he said he sees himself as staying with the bulldogs for a long time.
So why hasn't he signed up yet?

I got the impression from that interview that Jmac knows how to say all the right things very well, but what is actually happening in the background might be a different story.

He's probably been to focused on managing our list and scouting players he hasn't had the time to consider his own contract knowing fairly well he'll re-sign? Just a thought.

[GVGjr]

Interesting that when it comes to his own contract he said he sees himself as staying with the bulldogs for a long time.
So why hasn't he signed up yet?

I got the impression from that interview that Jmac knows how to say all the right things very well, but what is actually happening in the background might be a different story.

I think he is pushing for a restructure of the footy department and if he gets that he will stay. He could be after more resources and possibly a great focus on tracking and scouting players at other clubs during the season. He is an ambitious type so I could see him pushing for greater control

Regarding knowing what to say, he is now on record with his valuation of Stringer and now needs to deliver something close to that.

[ledge]

I think he is pushing for a restructure of the footy department and if he gets that he will stay. He could be after more resources and possibly a great focus on tracking and scouting players at other clubs during the season. He is an ambitious type so I could see him pushing for greater control

Regarding knowing what to say, he is now on record with his valuation of Stringer and now needs to deliver something close to that.
From a previous interview I think by PG he says they were restructuring the role and going through it with JMAc

[ledge]

Jmac obviously pushing the Geelong side and the 'he may remain with us next year' angle to boost his value.
No one likes dealing with Essendon, We will be asking for pick 11 they will be offering 4th round no doubt.

Interesting that when it comes to his own contract he said he sees himself as staying with the bulldogs for a long time.
So why hasn't he signed up yet?

I got the impression from that interview that Jmac knows how to say all the right things very well, but what is actually happening in the background might be a different story.

This is how rumours start people Read into things no matter how straight forward it comes from the horses mouth.

[Dry Rot]

We have tracked Impey all season and we are interested


Interesting. I wonder if the Trengove deal was set up at the start of the season?

[Bulldog4life]

Rather than go for a "has been" ruck from another club we could do worse than offering a rookie contract to Nick De Steiger. He played well for our VFL team last year. I like his bullocking ruck work and his marking around the ground was impressive. He is 199cm's and well built guy and was the premier ruckman in the amateurs in 2016.

[Twodogs]

Bevo seems more interested in a mobile type ruckman who can play different positions though. Not your typical ruckman who plays well in the ruck and takes marks around the ground. More the type of ruckman who isn't actually a ruckman, just tall.

[dog town]

We would need to delist a ruckmen if we were going to pick up another one in my opinion. Roughy/Boyd with Campbell and English as back ups is plenty. If we don't think it is there is an issue with those players. The number is more than ok considering we don't even rely on a traditional ruck type.

[bulldogtragic]

Schache's manager a couple of weeks ago said he wasn't going anywhere at all, playing in Brisbane. According to afl.com.au his manager is now saying 'well you never know'.

Worth having an enquiry into?

He would secure a talented spine for 6-8 years, as well as ability to ruck too.

[Happy Days]

He would secure a talented spine for 6-8 years, as well as ability to ruck too.

He'll probably be good, but I don't like the price we'd have to pay relative to the risk we'd incur. Also re: rucking, he has 4 career hitouts in 27 AFL games, and no more than 1 in any game.

[bulldogtragic]

He'll probably be good, but I don't like the price we'd have to pay relative to the risk we'd incur. Also re: rucking, he has 4 career hitouts in 27 AFL games, and no more than 1 in any game.

This was from the Hun a couple of weeks ago, Brisbane were talking to Richmond who now want to go to the draft:

Schache, a former No. 2 draft pick, surprisingly re-signed with Brisbane in June but was still on Richmond’s radar as the club looks for another tall forward to help Jack Riewoldt.

The two clubs spoke informally about what a trade could look like after Schache ended his season early, returning home to Victoria instead of playing in the NEAFL grand final.

.......

What if we could get creative?

Dogs give: 9 & 26, 3rd rounder 2018
Brisbane give: 18, 41 and Schache

Brisbane: Land another top 14 pick this year, it would be four inside pick 14. Plus 26 to help cover the early bid on Ballenden. The draft points would be worth about pick 14 or 15. Which is about his worth.

Dogs: Still hold a first rounder in 18 (even though it's technically not, but pick 18 notionally is) and a possible additional first rounder for Stringer. That'd be two first rounders for Dalrymple this year and a pick 2 player from 2 years ago. We then use 39 on Crozier. Pick 41 to be used on draft day >

(11), 18, 41, 80 plus Trengove, Schache, Crozier (anything for small trades)

[Twodogs]

He'll probably be good, but I don't like the price we'd have to pay relative to the risk we'd incur. Also re: rucking, he has 4 career hitouts in 27 AFL games, and no more than 1 in any game.


I'm torn beteween his ability to ruck and his ability to be tall. We confuse the two at the moment in AFL.

[GVGjr]

Not bad BT. Schache is worth considering but it it still seems a long shot.

[hujsh]

We would need to delist a ruckmen if we were going to pick up another one in my opinion. Roughy/Boyd with Campbell and English as back ups is plenty. If we don't think it is there is an issue with those players. The number is more than ok considering we don't even rely on a traditional ruck type.

I don't see how after watching us this year you could reasonably reach that conclusion.

Boyd rucking with support from Jong or the Bont is hardly ideal. Rough and Campbell both get injured and English is still far from ready.

We essentially have 2 ruckmen on the list and others we can throw into the ruck/sacrifice to the ruck gods like a virgin going into a volcano.

A rookie ruck would be a smart pragmatic option.

[Remi Moses]

Richmond won a flag with Shaun Grigg as it's second ruck .

[Twodogs]

Richmond won a flag with Shaun Grigg as it's second ruck .


Yeah but with a decent first ruck.

[GVGjr]

Richmond won a flag with Shaun Grigg as it's second ruck .

Not because though, just with.

[Dry Rot]

Yeah but with a decent first ruck.

Poor old Swans let the wrong ruckman go. I thought he was terrific

I read somewhere that we were interested in him - is that true?

[Twodogs]

Poor old Swans let the wrong ruckman go. I thought he was terrific

I read somewhere that we were interested in him - is that true?

Us? Interested in a ruckman from another club?

I don't think so.

[Remi Moses]

Poor old Swans let the wrong ruckman go. I thought he was terrific

I read somewhere that we were interested in him - is that true?

They had to many ruckmen though . Naismith is a decent ruck

[GVGjr]

Poor old Swans let the wrong ruckman go. I thought he was terrific

I read somewhere that we were interested in him - is that true?

I seem to recall that we discussed him here but we didn't think he was much better than we already had.

[bulldogtragic]

I seem to recall that we discussed him here but we didn't think he was much better than we already had.

From memory the club enquired, but he picked Richmond.

[GVGjr]

From memory the club enquired, but he picked Richmond.

We have to start working on our sales pitch :)

[bulldogtragic]

Not bad BT. Schache is worth considering but it it still seems a long shot.

Agreed. It seems odd that Brisbane are holding meetings/discussions to discuss trading him, and his manager has gone from 'he's playing at Brisbane next year' to now 'who knows what happens at this time of the year'.

Seems like both seem receptive to trade. If the kid is ever going to make it, he needs to be close to home with a Vic club.

[kruder]

Schache on the trade table its official. Is he too similar to Tom Boyd? Whats he worth? No doubt we will be linked on Monday morning.

[macca]

If we offer pick11 to swap their pick 19 , would that be a fair trade maybe pay same salary cap ? Former 2nd pick 2015 , a few years in the system. He would address a real age GAP as we don't have any tall forwards except Zaine of similar age

[Twodogs]

If we offer pick11 to swap their pick 19 , would that be a fair trade maybe pay same salary cap ? Former 2nd pick 2015 , a few years in the system. He would address a real age GAP as we don't have any tall forwards except Zaine of similar age

Do you mean swap our pick 11 for Schache and their pick 19? I don't think they would do it.

[GVGjr]

We could offer our pick 9 for Schache which I think they would jump at or maybe if there are no better offers they might bite at our picks 9 and 26 for Schache and 19. Ironically that would value Schache at about pick 11. Pick 19 positions us a lot better than pick 26.

The Lions could then ship pick 26 to Adelaide for Charlie Cameron, I think pick 19 is overs for Cameron as the some in the media are speculating on.

We could have Boyd at CHF and Schache at FF and the can both take a turn in the ruck

Schache has played 27 senior games of footy which is a bit of development into him already so if living in Melbourne does satisfy him then it's a reasonable risk given the potential upside.

[GVGjr]

If we offer pick11 to swap their pick 19 , would that be a fair trade maybe pay same salary cap ? Former 2nd pick 2015 , a few years in the system. He would address a real age GAP as we don't have any tall forwards except Zaine of similar age

I think I get what you mean but we can't pay part of a salary for a player no longer up there. We could only do that if we were trading a player to go up there as part of a deal. Ie Tom Campbell

[GVGjr]

Brad Lloyd has confirmed that he will discuss Hayden Crozier with us today. He wants to keep him but understands he's interested on moving to us

[bulldogtragic]

This was from the Hun a couple of weeks ago, Brisbane were talking to Richmond who now want to go to the draft:

Schache, a former No. 2 draft pick, surprisingly re-signed with Brisbane in June but was still on Richmond’s radar as the club looks for another tall forward to help Jack Riewoldt.

The two clubs spoke informally about what a trade could look like after Schache ended his season early, returning home to Victoria instead of playing in the NEAFL grand final.

.......

What if we could get creative?

Dogs give: 9 & 26, 3rd rounder 2018
Brisbane give: 18, 41 and Schache

Brisbane: Land another top 14 pick this year, it would be four inside pick 14. Plus 26 to help cover the early bid on Ballenden. The draft points would be worth about pick 14 or 15. Which is about his worth.

Dogs: Still hold a first rounder in 18 (even though it's technically not, but pick 18 notionally is) and a possible additional first rounder for Stringer. That'd be two first rounders for Dalrymple this year and a pick 2 player from 2 years ago. We then use 39 on Crozier. Pick 41 to be used on draft day >

(11), 18, 41, 80 plus Trengove, Schache, Crozier (anything for small trades)

I still think this gets us Schache, now he's officially gettable. Throw in a Honey/Campbell if they want one. It's just a question of whether we want him. Personally I'd do it, especially with Trengove locked in, Crozier hopefully soon and one or two picks inside 20.

[kruder]

Brad Lloyd has confirmed that he will discuss Hayden Crozier with us today. He wants to keep him but understands he's interested on moving to us

Good moneyball selection he was always a player that was going to take time with his frame but players that can kick goals, good overhead and can tackle are attributes that we lack on the list.

[Mofra]

Schache on the trade table its official. Is he too similar to Tom Boyd? Whats he worth? No doubt we will be linked on Monday morning.
I think so. We'd want a more athletic tall HF type rather than someone who does their best work leading from the square given Boyd & Redpath also seem better suited to leading from the square.

[kruder]

I think so. We'd want a more athletic tall HF type rather than someone who does their best work leading from the square given Boyd & Redpath also seem better suited to leading from the square.

Schache actually isn't a bad runner he could be a Cloke clone roaming half forward its definitely food for thought. I think he is worth around pick 20 I guess if we get 11 for Jake we could look to downgrade that pic and get Josh that way.

[1eyedog]

I think we are ok for talls in Boyd, Roughie, Trengove, Cordy, Adams, Collins, Roberts, Cloke and Redpath. If we are talking pick 9 get hold of Gaff's manager and give them something to really think about. We may need to overpay to get him but we have the coin and the pick and, more importantly, the need for his type of skill set.

[bulldogtragic]

I think we are ok for talls in Boyd, Roughie, Trengove, Cordy, Adams, Collins, Roberts, Cloke and Redpath. If we are talking pick 9 get hold of Gaff's manager and give them something to really think about. We may need to overpay to get him but we have the coin and the pick and, more importantly, the need for his type of skill set.

Saints tried it with Gaff/WCE with better picks and were told no. I'd like an enquiry but it seemed a very emphatic no.

With Cloke probably in his last year, Redders with a poor injury record or even tradable, getting a very talented KPF this year might be good for short, mid and long-term plans with our forward line. With Schache he will probably need a good years education with the rucking coch to develop this in his game for a few minutes quarter.

[ratsmac]

We could offer our pick 9 for Schache which I think they would jump at or maybe if there are no better offers they might bite at our picks 9 and 26 for Schache and 19. Ironically that would value Schache at about pick 11. Pick 19 positions us a lot better than pick 26.

The Lions could then ship pick 26 to Adelaide for Charlie Cameron, I think pick 19 is overs for Cameron as the some in the media are speculating on.

We could have Boyd at CHF and Schache at FF and the can both take a turn in the ruck

Schache has played 27 senior games of footy which is a bit of development into him already so if living in Melbourne does satisfy him then it's a reasonable risk given the potential upside.

We could give Boyd a mentoring role with Schache which might actually help them both develop as well. I would be happy with Schache.

It would make us awfully tall but talls are normally good trade value for the future if need be. We would then have to draft all fast mids with good skill if we took Schache.

[kruder]

Sounds like Crozier is pretty done deal I heard a backend of an interview I'm guessing it was Loyd on the way out of docklands and said he has a good relationship with us(no doubt after giving hammer away) and things will progress during the week. Reading between the lines I'd suggest its a 99.9% chance that he will be in bulldogs colours this year.

[bulldogtragic]

Sounds like Crozier is pretty done deal I heard a backend of an interview I'm guessing it was Loyd on the way out of docklands and said he has a good relationship with us(no doubt after giving hammer away) and things will progress during the week. Reading between the lines I'd suggest its a 99.9% chance that he will be in bulldogs colours this year.

Hopefully for pick 39 (before compo blowing it out to 40+)

[bulldogtragic]

We could give Boyd a mentoring role with Schache which might actually help them both develop as well. I would be happy with Schache.

It would make us awfully tall but talls are normally good trade value for the future if need be. We would then have to draft all fast mids with good skill if we took Schache.

Two potential power forwards (works for GCS and others), I love the idea also with an athletic freak like Young playing the roaming role too. Redders depth/trade, Crameri (?) and Cloke possibly retired at year's end. As you say, if we can get good users delivering inside 50. Then we need two genuine crumbling, quick forward pocket types.

A Roughy/English first ruck with Boyd & Schache capable of rucking means no defined second ruck role, which I'm sure Bevo would like. And two big forwards will force change with entries to them and personnel around them.

And, as a by product and not primary motivation, for membership numbers. We can sell a 10 year period with a forward line Twin Towers of a pick 1 KPF and a pick 2 KPF , with a resting Pick 4 up forward too.

[mjp]

Is Schache actually good?

Non-competitor.

[Topdog]

Is Schache actually good?

Non-competitor.

I guess thats the million dollar question. Is he good but just been poor in Brisbane? Has he applied himself 100%?

[mjp]

Tim Walsh come on down.

Sorry but a big no thanks from me.

[macca]

I guess thats the million dollar question. Is he good but just been poor in Brisbane? Has he applied himself 100%?
Were these Homesick ex-brisbane players?
Yeo , docherty , aish
YEo just won the B&f for wc,
Docherty has become a fair player at carlton

Aish may not make it as his struggle for games this year for whatever reasons
2/3 could it be a good indicator ??? If schache on the market and he ticks our boxes, go hard and the throw the kitchen sink. We need a young forward at that age profile.

[Topdog]

Tim Walsh come on down.

Sorry but a big no thanks from me.

That is a very big NO!

[Sedat]

Is Schache actually good?

Non-competitor.
That's my concern with him. You can't teach that willingness to compete - that's why Jack Watts is not a KPF despite being more than big enough to be.

[Happy Days]

Brett Anderson (not a terrible source) claiming that we're one of four clubs into him.

This is good news for those who want to pick him up (for obvious reasons), and also good news for those who don't want to (because he will inevitably pick somewhere else).

[bulldogtragic]

So 10 Victorian clubs.
- less Richmond & Essendon ruling themselves out
- less Geelong, they’re too stretched for trades as it is
- less Hawthorn, they’ve nothing to trade after Impey takes their top pick
- less Melbourne, tied up with Lever

Between 4 of: Dogs, Saints, North, Carlton & Collingwood

I can’t see us beating big clubs or bigger money with better picks

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So 10 Victorian clubs.
- less Richmond & Essendon ruling themselves out
- less Geelong, they’re too stretched for trades as it is
- less Hawthorn, they’ve nothing to trade after Impey takes their top pick
- less Melbourne, tied up with Lever

Between 4 of: Dogs, Saints, North, Carlton & Collingwood

I can’t see us beating big clubs or bigger money with better picks

Count Saints out. They ruled themselves out.

[GVGjr]

So 10 Victorian clubs.
- less Richmond & Essendon ruling themselves out
- less Geelong, they’re too stretched for trades as it is
- less Hawthorn, they’ve nothing to trade after Impey takes their top pick
- less Melbourne, tied up with Lever

Between 4 of: Dogs, Saints, North, Carlton & Collingwood

I can’t see us beating big clubs or bigger money with better picks

I think you could cancel out StKilda with Bruce, Membrey and McCartin

[bornadog]

Count Saints out. They ruled themselves out.

I bet he goes to Collingwood.

[GVGjr]

I'd rather take early picks into the draft but I just have the feeling we could be looking for that good news story and Schache might be that.

I'm not sure why there are questions marks about his competitiveness though, he has played 27 games in 2 seasons which is a fast tracked development rate for young KP players.

[bulldogtragic]

Ok. Dogs, North, Carlton & Collingwood.

I think as a list we are comfortably the best. He shouldn't go to North. Then we are competing against two 'big clubs' with picks better than us. As much as I'd like him, we don't pitch well it seems.

Edit: Apparently Collingwood want to use pick 6 at the draft. So if we use the BT Model (9 & 26, 2018 3rd rounder, plus a fringe player for 18 & 41 and Schache) then North or Carlton might get into a murky area where the would give up too much. Carlton & North could use Redders. Perhaps we can throw him around to persuade one of them there's a cheaper option and keep their pick 3 & 4.

[bulldogtragic]

I'd rather take early picks into the draft but I just have the feeling we could be looking for that good news story and Schache might be that.

I'm not sure why there are questions marks about his competitiveness though, he has played 27 games in 2 seasons which is a fast tracked development rate for young KP players.

If we can land 11 and use it. Swap 9 & 18 as I've previously laid out. That's still giving Dal two notional first rounders and pick 41 plus Schache, Trengove & Crozier.

I'd call that a big overall win from where we were when Bevo's interview hit the Hun website.

[chef]

Hmm, maybe Schache was full of shit with what he told my daughter. They are pretty good friends so it's weird that he lied to her.

But hope we aren't after him, not what we need.

[GVGjr]

Hmm, maybe Schache was full of shit with what he told my daughter. They are pretty good friends so it's weird that he lied to her.

But hope we aren't after him, not what we need.

It is most likely 100% the truth when they talked. Things can change quickly in the AFL. I could see Brisbane saying to him there has been some clubs asking about your availability and it's gone from there.

He could be a good player or another Stephen Oliver that would rather live in the country than commit to the demands of AFL footy

[Bulldog Revolution]

I'd rather take early picks into the draft but I just have the feeling we could be looking for that good news story and Schache might be that.

I'm not sure why there are questions marks about his competitiveness though, he has played 27 games in 2 seasons which is a fast tracked development rate for young KP players.

I'd rather take the pick also - he had a very disappointing year in 2017 and there has to be question marks over him

I'm not sold he turns it around in a new environment

[kruder]

Hypothetical , if we do land Schache what do we do with Cloke? Obviously you want the kid to earn a game but at the same time would you play Cloke in front of him who clearly is on his last legs?

[bulldogtragic]

Hypothetical , if we do land Schache what do we do with Cloke? Obviously you want the kid to earn a game but at the same time would you play Cloke in front of him who clearly is on his last legs?

Form into the side only. The longer game is what this should be about. We could be without Crammers & Cloke by next year. History says we can't rely on Redders. Young & Adams are unknown as AFL forwards.

[ratsmac]

Form into the side only. The longer game is what this should be about. We could be without Crammers & Cloke by next year. History says we can't rely on Redders. Young & Adams are unknown as AFL forwards.

Exactly. He's still very young. He probably won't be an over night success but he has time on his side. Tom Boyd still hasn't shot the lights out (barring 2 of my all time favourite games) by any means but I'm still excited about him because I feel he'll be a great player in the next couple seasons. If our recruiting staff can see something in Schache that they are willing to part with a first rounder for, well that's good enough for me. They know more than me when it comes to these matters. Its just as risky as picking up any kid in the draft. There's always a chance that the kid doesn't come on as we (or any club) would have hoped.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don’t rate Cloke or Redpath and we’re obsessed with rucking Boyd so Schache makes sense.

However, I also share concerns about his mental application and his lack of aggression.

[SquirrelGrip]

I agree Boyd and Schache make a lot of sense. Trade Campbell and/or Redpath for an extra mid-range pick or two. The high pressure small forward line has worked he last two years in finals but trends change quickly. Boyd and Schache with Tim English in the ruck is a big man trio for the next 10 years. We also either keep Stringer or gain another quality young kid with the pick. It’s a good set up.

[jazzadogs]

If we have a forward line of Boyd and Schache, would that be the least intimidating set of tall forwards (not talent-wise, aggression and attack on the football-wise) in the league? One thing Redpath does bring is the willingness to crash packs...

I haven't seen any of Schache's games but whispers about a lack of aggression are not promising. I feel like there are other options available at the draft which would suit our list better (similar to how I feel about Lever).

[bulldogtragic]

Collingwood confirming 6 won’t be used on Schache.

That only leaves North & Carlton with a higher pick than ours who have interest. I can’t see them trading down from 3/4. We might be in an ok window to trade down to get him if the club so chooses.

[ratsmac]

https://youtu.be/B6p9p20RlR0

[kruder]

Collingwood confirming 6 won’t be used on Schache.

That only leaves North & Carlton with a higher pick than ours who have interest. I can’t see them trading down from 3/4. We might be in an ok window to trade down to get him if the club so chooses.

I reckon we are a big chance on this one.

[kruder]

I agree Boyd and Schache make a lot of sense. Trade Campbell and/or Redpath for an extra mid-range pick or two. The high pressure small forward line has worked he last two years in finals but trends change quickly. Boyd and Schache with Tim English in the ruck is a big man trio for the next 10 years. We also either keep Stringer or gain another quality young kid with the pick. It’s a good set up.

Agree we need to find another way to score it simply cant just be about pressure and this year highlighted the fact even more so.

[ratsmac]

If GWS are into Honeychuch could we back door Essendon and make a play for Devon Smith? I'm not sure if he suits us or not but gee the look on Dodos face would be priceless.

[Dry Rot]

I'd rather pinch Saad from him.

[Sedat]

If GWS are into Honeychuch could we back door Essendon and make a play for Devon Smith?
Might be in the minority but I'm not a fan at all. He is a front runner with no defensive or team-oriented bone in his body. He's also missed a fair bit of footy with injury in the last 12 months.

If Essendon get Smith, Stringer and Saad, it could blow up in their faces for many years to come. None of them are full time mids and none of them are defensively minded players - what Essendon desperately need is midfield depth and players with a defensive mindset. They are selling the farm on players that address none of their urgent needs, and they are an old list as it is.

[bulldogtragic]

Collingwood confirming 6 won’t be used on Schache.

That only leaves North & Carlton with a higher pick than ours who have interest. I can’t see them trading down from 3/4. We might be in an ok window to trade down to get him if the club so chooses.

Apparently North looking only at midfielders in an article by Landsberger. That then leaves, based on the different interviews and articles today/yesterday, only now Carlton & Dogs as potentially interested Victorian teams holding a draft pick enticing enough to Brisbane to facilitate a trade.

Afl.com.au says both Carlton & Dogs were into Schache before he signed earlier this year. So we've done all the due diligence obviously and wanted him 3 months ago. Interesting times ahead.

[Dry Rot]

Apparently North looking only at midfielders in an article by Landsberger. That then leaves, based on the different interviews and articles today/yesterday, only now Carlton & Dogs as potentially interested Victorian teams holding a draft pick enticing enough to Brisbane to facilitate a trade.

OK, do the Blues have the assets to get this done?

Schache isn't worth their first rounder, and that and/or their second rounder will be needed for their annual Giants clearance sale trade.

That alone may just leave us, for better or worse.

[bulldogtragic]

OK, do the Blues have the assets to get this done?

Schache isn't worth their first rounder, and that and/or their second rounder will be needed for their annual Giants clearance sale trade.

That alone may just leave us, for better or worse.

I reckon. The best Carlton could do is swap 3 for 12. But that's a huge gamble with a top 3 pick if they did it. I'm pretty sure Jaksch is still fresh in their mind which was similar, so they might be shy. Plus they don't have a second rounder currently. So I reckon we are sitting pretty well and if we can do the 9/26/3rd2018 for 18/41/Schache that's a pretty good outcome for both clubs (values him around 14).

[boydogs]

Apparently North looking only at midfielders in an article by Landsberger. That then leaves, based on the different interviews and articles today/yesterday, only now Carlton & Dogs as potentially interested Victorian teams holding a draft pick enticing enough to Brisbane to facilitate a trade

Richmond definitely out?

[bulldogtragic]

Richmond definitely out?

So they say. Re-confirmed today that they are taking 15 & 17 to the draft. A few interviews hint at his salary, and I don't think Richmond could afford it.

[Dry Rot]

So they say. Re-confirmed today that they are taking 15 & 17 to the draft. A few interviews hint at his salary, and I don't think Richmond could afford it.

That's not a good sign with Schache. Leppisch would know him well.

[bornadog]

Hmm, maybe Schache was full of shit with what he told my daughter. They are pretty good friends so it's weird that he lied to her.

But hope we aren't after him, not what we need.

Nah, he was just holding the party line and not giving anything away, plus as GVGjr said, things can also change very quickly and suddenly he is interested.

[LostDoggy]

I think the questions on Schache's ability are pretty harsh. Young 197 cm kpd's rarely set the world on fire early, especially when they are not settling in at the club, not happy in their private life (missing home) and are playing full forward for the worst team in the comp whose forward entries are haphazard at best.

He reminds me of a slightly larger Jack Riewoldt. His first 2 years versus Riewoldt stack up fairly comparably:

JR 26 games, 25 goals, 246 possessions, 113 marks.
JS 27 games, 25 goals, 238 possessions, 107 marks.

[Twodogs]

Tim Walsh come on down.

Sorry but a big no thanks from me.


I think the questions on Schache's ability are pretty harsh. Young 197 cm kpd's rarely set the world on fire early, especially when they are not settling in at the club, not happy in their private life (missing home) and are playing full forward for the worst team in the comp whose forward entries are haphazard at best.

He reminds me of a slightly larger Jack Riewoldt. His first 2 years versus Riewoldt stack up fairly comparably:

JR 26 games, 25 goals, 246 possessions, 113 marks.
JS 27 games, 25 goals, 238 possessions, 107 marks.


Yeah that's all ok but what is Schache's singing voice like?

[comrade]

Schache can at least mark the ball. He just about took more one grab over head marks in that highlights package than Tom Boyd has in the last 2 years (not knocking Boyd, just stating a fact).

[kruder]

Apparently North looking only at midfielders in an article by Landsberger. That then leaves, based on the different interviews and articles today/yesterday, only now Carlton & Dogs as potentially interested Victorian teams holding a draft pick enticing enough to Brisbane to facilitate a trade.

Afl.com.au says both Carlton & Dogs were into Schache before he signed earlier this year. So we've done all the due diligence obviously and wanted him 3 months ago. Interesting times ahead.

I cant see Carlton having a crack at him they need mids he would be too similar to Harry Macay, If we are keen on Schache he ends up at the Bulldogs.

[LostDoggy]

Brisbane are talking mid-late first round for Schache, we are talking similar for Stringer, Essendon are keen with 11 on the table. I wonder if a 3 way trade with some later picks thrown in is a possibiity. Both Essendon and Brisbane have been linked to Campbell in the past year or 2, wonder if he could be a factor?

[jeemak]

Brisbane are talking mid-late first round for Schache, we are talking similar for Stringer, Essendon are keen with 11 on the table. I wonder if a 3 way trade with some later picks thrown in is a possibiity. Both Essendon and Brisbane have been linked to Campbell in the past year or 2, wonder if he could be a factor?

Campbell and 11 for Schache and Martin, Stringer to EFC?

[Mofra]

Brisbane are talking mid-late first round for Schache, we are talking similar for Stringer, Essendon are keen with 11 on the table. I wonder if a 3 way trade with some later picks thrown in is a possibiity. Both Essendon and Brisbane have been linked to Campbell in the past year or 2, wonder if he could be a factor?
I don't think Schache will be anywhere near as good as his draft ranking suggests but he's likely to be better than pick 11 this draft and draft watchers say he's ahead of the best tall forward in this draft (Brander) with two pre-seasons under his belt too.

First year was ok, second year terrible, well behind the mass of young talls Brisbane have (Hipwood looks a gun, they've got guys like Andrews and Smith and Freeman and Hammelmen and Close and Walker with Conor Ballenden this year who looks a good prospect).

[mjp]

I don't think Schache will be anywhere near as good as his draft ranking suggests but he's likely to be better than pick 11 this draft and draft watchers say he's ahead of the best tall forward in this draft (Brander) with two pre-seasons under his belt too.


I don't want to just argue for the sake of arguing but my concern - and I am sure that of the clubs who are saying 'NO' - is that the questions about his competitiveness hovered over him during his draft year as well. Does he believe in himself and does he want to show everyone else that he is a capable footballer. Doing things like refusing to play in the NEAFL GF do not send a good message - however 'admirable' his reasons might have appeared, coaches coach, players play and most importantly, players WANT TO play and impact on the contest.

All the commentary around Hipwood is interesting because his numbers are pretty poor - but he passes the eye test in that he plays with a bit of passion and urgency. The issue with Schache is that to so many people who have watched him play the numbers might be OK (I see a lot of people quoting 2016 stats) but he does NOT pass the eye test.

I get it - not everyone can play like a 'beast' at 20 years of age (which is why a guy like Hogan is such a rareity) but you want to see signs that he gets it, see him attack the contest etc.

Anyway - what do I know. After watching Bontempelli in the national champs I couldn't believe we would have even considered him at pick 4...

[Mofra]

Anyway - what do I know. After watching Bontempelli in the national champs I couldn't believe we would have even considered him at pick 4...
Well I do remember you being all over some kid called Nate who slipped to Freo with an early 20s pick.

I'm certainly not suggesting we go all out for Schache but if his value slips to the point where he is gettable it can't hurt to meet him and have serious discussions.
I would have said a flat out no given the original talk of two first rounders but if our plan going into 2018 and beyond is to have at least one player in the front half of the ground who is our "get out" kick down the line and we then continue to scrounge goals via contested work (perhaps still a necessity given the state of the list Bevo inherited) then a 200cm type who gets tot he right spots fits in with that philosophy.

Personally I'd like a smaller leading forward with the tank to cover ground across the higher forward area (traditional mobile CHFish type) but we fluffed the last chance to grab one (Curnow, pick 11) and I don't think there's anyone worthy at the draft this year who can play that role with any semblance of certainty.
There's Brander (gone before our pick, question marks) then it seems a bunch of tall utilities with no set position yet.

[EasternWest]

Yeah that's all ok but what is Schache's singing voice like?

He's bound for glory.

[The Doctor]

Tom Campbell or Zac Clarke?

Who would be the better fit for us?

[Mofra]

Tom Campbell or Zac Clarke?

Who would be the better fit for us?
I like big Soup, Clarke had a great year a few years ago (2012?) but I don't think his body can stand up to AFL football anymore.