2008-2010 under Bevo

[Mofra]

Up until 2016, the 2008-2010 teams were the best Bulldogs sides I'd seen, especially the back 6 and especially in those brief moments Tom Williams had been on the park long enough to get continuity into his game.

Ultimately we were the 3rd best side in each of those years although I still think we were desperately unlucky in the 2009 prelim.

I do wonder though - what would have happened in those years if Luke Beveridge was at the helm? How different would our sides have played, and does anyone think a Bevo-coached side in those years could have gone further?

[Bulldog Joe]

Well, that is hypothetical and disrespectful to Rocket.

I don't want to even think about it.

What has passed cannot be changed. Let us concentrate on the future and enjoy the ride.

[Twodogs]

Well, that is hypothetical and disrespectful to Rocket.

I don't want to even think about it.

What has passed cannot be changed. Let us concentrate on the future and enjoy the ride.

I'm as big a Rocket Eade fan as there is but I don't think it's disrespectful to him to compare the two. Eade did a terrific job taking the hard he was dealt, getting us into the EF in 2006 was a terrific effort given we lost as many players to injury through the season as we did and getting us up for three top four finishes in a row with the 18-24th players we typically carried in those teams was also a great effort. We were a Nick Riewoldt dive from a Grand Final spot in 2009, I'm a loud and proud Ricket fan.

Having said all that you just can't compare the two. They are similar in some ways but absolute polar opposites in others. We were and are lucky to have them. They allowed us be proud of the boys.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm not sure it changes. In 2008 we choked badly. So many misses by Eagleton, Minson and others. I don't think the coach changes that, or having numerous passengers who couldn't have been dropped (I.e. Johnson). In 2009 in the QF we choked, and in the PF we were robbed by umpiring. Again, not sure Bevo would've changed that. In 2010 we weren't really, really strong contenders in my book.

So I'd say the same would've happened.

[1eyedog]

I'm not sure about 08-10 but we were close. The 97 team is the best I saw and I'll bet your bottom dollar that Bevo wouldn't have left Smith on Robran = flag.

[Greystache]

The obvious differences between the two teams was the commitment of all the players to all do the team things in 2016 vs the senior players being allowed to largely play on their own terms in 2008-10, plus the lack of mental toughness of the 2008-10 teams who often looked like a dear in the headlights in finals while the 2016 team played their absolute best when the game was at its most intense. That's a coaching issue and something that didn't improve at any point.

Tactically we were ahead of the curve in 2016 as opposed to following it in 2008-10, but given the weaknesses above I'm not sure it would've made the difference.

[Happy Days]

The obvious differences between the two teams was the commitment of all the players to all do the team things in 2016 vs the senior players being allowed to largely play on their own terms in 2008-10, plus the lack of mental toughness of the 2008-10 teams who often looked like a dear in the headlights in finals while the 2016 team played their absolute best when the game was at its most intense. That's a coaching issue and something that didn't improve at any point.

Tactically we were ahead of the curve in 2016 as opposed to following it in 2008-10, but given the weaknesses above I'm not sure it would've made the difference.

Yeah came here to say this. No way the current team misses those goals in the 09 prelim.

[Twodogs]

The obvious differences between the two teams was the commitment of all the players to all do the team things in 2016 vs the senior players being allowed to largely play on their own terms in 2008-10, plus the lack of mental toughness of the 2008-10 teams who often looked like a dear in the headlights in finals while the 2016 team played their absolute best when the game was at its most intense. That's a coaching issue and something that didn't improve at any point.

Tactically we were ahead of the curve in 2016 as opposed to following it in 2008-10, but given the weaknesses above I'm not sure it would've made the difference.

Yep, agree about the commitment of the playing group. It kind of felt conditional under Rocket, like some senior players loved the club more than anyone else but only in their terms, but the buy in under Bevo seems total and unconditional.

[bornadog]

I don't believe we had the full compliment of players to take us to a premiership in those years. WE had some glaring holes in the team and did extremely well to get where we did.

If Barry Hall came into the team in 08 and 09, there could have been a difference. In 2010, we had too many injuries and lack of depth to cover the injuries.

As for coaching styles, again, you can't compare the two as they are different era's and footy is played differently now to 10 years ago.

[Twodogs]

The 1985 team was the best I saw up until last year. It had strength, pace and skill and was coached by a coach who had a few innovative ideas.

In old speak the team bristled with talent on every line.

[Mofra]

Tactically we were ahead of the curve in 2016 as opposed to following it in 2008-10, but given the weaknesses above I'm not sure it would've made the difference.
Interesting point to mention because I thought in 2006 Rocket was ahead of the curve with the fast link up football and attacking off the HB line which soon became the antidote to the dour Swans/Eagles grindfests.

[bornadog]

Interesting point to mention because I thought in 2006 Rocket was ahead of the curve with the fast link up football and attacking off the HB line which soon became the antidote to the dour Swans/Eagles grindfests.

Yep, Rocket invented the mass flood way back when coaching Swans and then in 2005 went with the fast link up footy. This clicked towards the end of 2005 and we won 5 of the last 6 (losing by 4 points in the loss). It continued in 2006 and we made finals. Geelong also copied our style and took it one step higher as they had the better players.

[1eyedog]

Yeah came here to say this. No way the current team misses those goals in the 09 prelim.

Gee whizz we blew some chances in front of the big sticks against GWS though.

[Mofra]

Gee whizz we blew some chances in front of the big sticks against GWS though.
Blew our chances against the Crows in 2015

[Ozza]

Gee whizz we blew some chances in front of the big sticks against GWS though.

I thought we kicked very well against GWS.
Of the 11 behinds, 2 were rushed, 1 was after the siren - it was only really JJ that was a culprit of bad kicking with 0.3 - and those were outside or near 50 on the run. Of set shots, I can only recall Clay missing a set shot at quarter time, and maybe Dunkley also.

[Axe Man]

I'm not sure about 08-10 but we were close. The 97 team is the best I saw and I'll bet your bottom dollar that Bevo wouldn't have left Smith on Robran = flag.

That was 98, Robran did nothing in 97. We were smashed in 98, Robran was a problem but McLeod was a bigger one.

[bornadog]

I thought we kicked very well against GWS.
Of the 11 behinds, 2 were rushed, 1 was after the siren - it was only really JJ that was a culprit of bad kicking with 0.3 - and those were outside or near 50 on the run. Of set shots, I can only recall Clay missing a set shot at quarter time, and maybe Dunkley also.

Stringer missed two

[1eyedog]

Stringer missed two

Dunkley or Smith missed a soda on the siren?

[Twodogs]

Dunkley or Smith missed a soda on the siren?

Was it three weeks in a row we missed shots on after the siren? I think we missed a set shot at halftime along the way.

[Greystache]

Was it three weeks in a row we missed shots on after the siren? I think we missed a set shot at halftime along the way.

No Daniel kicked his after the siren from the goal square after a 50m penalty. The prelim and GF we missed both times. A pretty freaky occurrence.

[Greystache]

Interesting point to mention because I thought in 2006 Rocket was ahead of the curve with the fast link up football and attacking off the HB line which soon became the antidote to the dour Swans/Eagles grindfests.

He was. Then the zone and defensive presses came in to counter that and we fell behind. Our total lack of defensive pressure from the forward 50m and midfield stood out markedly too.

[Greystache]

No way the current team misses those goals in the 09 prelim.

Yep I don't think a player in our modern history had kicked that goal Bont did late in the prelim, and not only did it go through but it split the centre and was always going to the moment it left his boot. It was perfect execution. I've lamented our inability to kick that goal my whole football watching life, I still get a tingle thinking about how sweet he hit it. Macrae's goal late in the 4th to win the match while easy, would have been highly unlikely to have gone through either in the 2008-10 period IMO. Eagleton wouldn't have even made the distance given how much was riding on it.

When I picture the 2016 season in an image, I think of Bont hitting that kick on the run. It's probably a thread on its own.

[1eyedog]

That was 98, Robran did nothing in 97. We were smashed in 98, Robran was a problem but McLeod was a bigger one.

Thanks year's mixed up. Jarman was a bigger problem than both of them.

[bornadog]

Thanks year's mixed up. Jarman is bigger problem than both of them.

Edited for accuracy :D

http://thesoutheasterntimes.com.au/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Jarman.jpg

[Twodogs]

Blew our chances against the Crows in 2015


Edited for accuracy :D

http://thesoutheasterntimes.com.au/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Jarman.jpg

His brother played at that weight.

[bornadog]

His brother played at that weight.

He must have been big


http://cdndata.bigfooty.com/2015/05/135452_342ad97db01706605000d191d944d3e7.jpg

[Twodogs]

He must have been big


http://cdndata.bigfooty.com/2015/05/135452_342ad97db01706605000d191d944d3e7.jpg


He must have some chaffing issues Ithe us meant to do any more than walk from end to end at the end when each quarter finishes.

[The Doctor]

He must have been big


http://cdndata.bigfooty.com/2015/05/135452_342ad97db01706605000d191d944d3e7.jpg

I wonder if Grenville Diettrich was Jarman's boyhood hero

[FrediKanoute]

Yep, agree about the commitment of the playing group. It kind of felt conditional under Rocket, like some senior players loved the club more than anyone else but only in their terms, but the buy in under Bevo seems total and unconditional.

- different mix of players in 2016. The difference betweenniur best player and our wind best player is nowhere near as hug as it was in 2008 through 2010.

[Bulldog Joe]

No Daniel kicked his after the siren from the goal square after a 50m penalty. The prelim and GF we missed both times. A pretty freaky occurrence.

Dickson missed after the half time siren against Hawthorn and then Stringer missed after the 3/4 siren.
Against GWS Smith missed on 1/4 time siren and Dickson at full time, as well as the McLean GF miss. Still feel there was another siren shot somewhere through the finals.

We were very good at having control late in quarters.

[Twodogs]

No Daniel kicked his after the siren from the goal square after a 50m penalty. The prelim and GF we missed both times. A pretty freaky occurrence.


Dickson missed after the half time siren against Hawthorn and then Stringer missed after the 3/4 siren.
Against GWS Smith missed on 1/4 time siren and Dickson at full time, as well as the McLean GF miss. Still feel there was another siren shot somewhere through the finals.

We were very good at having control late in quarters.

Did we also kick the same score in the prelim and the GF?

[Bulldog Joe]

Did we also kick the same score in the prelim and the GF?

Yes we did 13.11(89)

[Twodogs]

Yes we did 13.11(89)

I must admit that I missed that little statistical gem in the excitement of post match! It took a couple of days to notice. I think they had all our finals one under the other in one of the papers.

[Guido]

Interesting point to mention because I thought in 2006 Rocket was ahead of the curve with the fast link up football and attacking off the HB line which soon became the antidote to the dour Swans/Eagles grindfests.
It was the antidote in 2005 as well, but IMO under the coaches overarching psychology that year, we really didn't give ourselves the chance to achieve what we could have. Sure, we "wanted" and "could have" played finals, but I don't think the philosophy that we were a genuine threat was being drilled in from day one as it was under Beveridge in both 2015 and 2016.

I really liked and rated Eade, and maybe internally it was different, but everything publicly that year was "it's a development year", "our best shot is in the future" kind of outlook. "No ceilings" is so simple and yet as a mindset, so effective. Looking back, we had over a dozen elite past/present/future All Australians in that 2005 squad, probably more than the premiers that year and possibly more AA's than our premiership team from last year will end up having (maybe/hopefully/probably not :)).

Number of AA's isn't the be all and end all (I know 2005 M Boyd is nowhere near 2016 M Boyd, 2005 Chris Grant isn't 1997 Chris Grant), but it's a reasonable guide on comparative talent available. The building blocks were there in 2005, everyone in the 8 was shitting themselves at facing us in a final (we took the grand finalists to the cleaners a few weeks prior to the finals, Chris Grant playing as if he was 25), and I genuinely think a 2016 Beveridge in charge of that squad would have had us knocking on that premiership door if not busting it down.

2008 and 2009 I'm not as bullish about, when we got within a few goals in 2008 and within 7 points (and pretty much ripped off) in 2009, we sometimes kinda forget that the two almost unbeatable teams we went up against went something like 21-1 or 20-2 during those years. 2016 on the other hand, every team lost quite a number of games and was one of the the most even seasons in history.

But I say this with as little as disrespect as possible, there's no way we achieve what we did in 2016 with Eade at the helm. Nor Longmire. Nor Worsfold. Nor Cameron. I'd even venture as far to say that even who I regard as the best coach in the last 15 years, even Clarkson probably wouldn't have led us to that summit.

[bornadog]

But I say this with as little as disrespect as possible, there's no way we achieve what we did in 2016 with Eade at the helm. Nor Longmire. Nor Worsfold. Nor Cameron. I'd even venture as far to say that even who I regard as the best coach in the last 15 years, even Clarkson probably wouldn't have led us to that summit.

We really can't compare 10 years ago coaching to today and what might and might not have happened, however, I totally agree with the above on 2016.

[Topdog]

Yep I don't think a player in our modern history had kicked that goal Bont did late in the prelim, and not only did it go through but it split the centre and was always going to the moment it left his boot. It was perfect execution. I've lamented our inability to kick that goal my whole football watching life, I still get a tingle thinking about how sweet he hit it. Macrae's goal late in the 4th to win the match while easy, would have been highly unlikely to have gone through either in the 2008-10 period IMO. Eagleton wouldn't have even made the distance given how much was riding on it.

When I picture the 2016 season in an image, I think of Bont hitting that kick on the run. It's probably a thread on its own.

YES! And to make it more exciting he missed a very similar shot in the 2nd quarter, which was probably our 4th or 5th easy goal missed for the game, so to then slot it straight through the middle was just brilliant.

Also that miss in the second quarter produced my sons first and to date only ever - thankfully - usage of the F word as I was watching with him and 3 of my best mates. 1 of them just released a barrage of f bombs after that miss and my little 6 year old boy just repeated with a "*!*!*!*! Bont!"

[Happy Days]

Yep I don't think a player in our modern history had kicked that goal Bont did late in the prelim, and not only did it go through but it split the centre and was always going to the moment it left his boot. It was perfect execution. I've lamented our inability to kick that goal my whole football watching life, I still get a tingle thinking about how sweet he hit it. Macrae's goal late in the 4th to win the match while easy, would have been highly unlikely to have gone through either in the 2008-10 period IMO. Eagleton wouldn't have even made the distance given how much was riding on it.

When I picture the 2016 season in an image, I think of Bont hitting that kick on the run. It's probably a thread on its own.

My friends can't understand why I think this goal was better than Daniel's "play of the year". This is exactly why.

[Twodogs]

YES! And to make it more exciting he missed a very similar shot in the 2nd quarter, which was probably our 4th or 5th easy goal missed for the game, so to then slot it straight through the middle was just brilliant.

Also that miss in the second quarter produced my sons first and to date only ever - thankfully - usage of the F word as I was watching with him and 3 of my best mates. 1 of them just released a barrage of f bombs after that miss and my little 6 year old boy just repeated with a "*!*!*!*! Bont!"


First time I took my son to Port Melbourne footy ground (back when Footscray was a wild fantasy) he was 5 or 6 maybe. We are sitting on the little bench that runs around the inside of the fence and there is me, Harvey, crusty old wharfie type number 1 and crusty old wharfie type number 2 in that order sitting along the fence. I'm watching the game, Harvey is taking in all the new senses, when I feel a tug on the sleeve of my jumper "dad, dad" "what is it mister?" "The man sitting next to me said '*!*!*!*!' at the umpire, Twice!":cool:

[The Pie Man]

Heard Spud Frawley mention he believes the message at half time to the players in the GF was to stop pumping high balls into a F 50 for Grundy to eat up - who knows what Rocket said to the guys at the intervals in 09, but it felt like we just kept pumping the ball into city end F 50 for not much result in 09 (Then there was Gilbee running into an open goal and shanking it....Gilbee!)

I'd love to know exactly what was said on that and whatever midfield changes Joel Corey has been credited with. I love thinking about it - I felt like we were in real trouble at half time, despite the late goal to McLean.

[bornadog]

Heard Spud Frawley mention he believes the message at half time to the players in the GF was to stop pumping high balls into a F 50 for Grundy to eat up - who knows what Rocket said to the guys at the intervals in 09, but it felt like we just kept pumping the ball into city end F 50 for not much result in 09 (Then there was Gilbee running into an open goal and shanking it....Gilbee!)

I'd love to know exactly what was said on that and whatever midfield changes Joel Corey has been credited with. I love thinking about it - I felt like we were in real trouble at half time, despite the late goal to McLean.

One thing Bevo did do was to get Libba and Macrae to alternate off Kennedy who was the one killing us around the midfield. After half time Kennedy was ineffectual and we got on top of the cont. poss and the rest is history.

[dukedog]

Heard Spud Frawley mention he believes the message at half time to the players in the GF was to stop pumping high balls into a F 50 for Grundy to eat up - who knows what Rocket said to the guys at the intervals in 09, but it felt like we just kept pumping the ball into city end F 50 for not much result in 09 (Then there was Gilbee running into an open goal and shanking it....Gilbee!)

I'd love to know exactly what was said on that and whatever midfield changes Joel Corey has been credited with. I love thinking about it - I felt like we were in real trouble at half time, despite the late goal to McLean.
Was it 3qtr time in the granny where matty boyd was speaking to the pack. Man id love to know what he said.

[bornadog]

Was it 3qtr time in the granny where matty boyd was speaking to the pack. Man id love to know what he said.

He said:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zPbgRZPH8U

[Ozza]

That's it....I'm going home to watch the Grand Final again tonight!!

(Actually, am going on a holiday tomorrow...so I do need a fix before being without the DVD for two whole weeks!).

[Mantis]

One thing Bevo did do was to get Libba and Macrae to alternate off Kennedy who was the one killing us around the midfield. After half time Kennedy was ineffectual and we got on top of the cont. poss and the rest is history.

I thought it was Libba & Bont, moot point , but both won a heap of clearances in the 2nd half as we got on top.. Our flexibility through this area of the ground showed its benefit in this game.. Kennedy carried a huge load and our guys were able to rotate and grind him down.

Lots of interesting points in this thread with the main thing I notice between the eras is the evenness of this team and its willingness to do the little things by the lesser likes to play their part... And on the Bont goal against GWS, one I have probably watched 100 times, and one that still gives me a buzz when I see it.. Our best player shouldn't be missing goals from 30m straight in front under no real pressure regardless of game situation... A clinical finish, nothing more, nothing less.

[Mofra]

Lots of interesting points in this thread with the main thing I notice between the eras is the evenness of this team and its willingness to do the little things by the lesser likes to play their part... And on the Bont goal against GWS, one I have probably watched 100 times, and one that still gives me a buzz when I see it.. Our best player shouldn't be missing goals from 30m straight in front under no real pressure regardless of game situation... A clinical finish, nothing more, nothing less.
One thing I love about that goal is the roar - for such a small crowd the noise sounds incredible, in volume, pitch, tone, everything.

[Twodogs]

One big difference between the teams is the presence of the Bont in one and not the other. How much difference does having a talent like him resetting the bar on just how great he can be every few weeks make?

Anyone in the 2008-10 team that could have gone the extra step and taken it to the same level as Bontompelli is taking it to? I don't think. The senior blokes got everything out of their careers except team success. Johnson, West, Grant, Smith. It would have been a better balanced team if Darcy had of stayed fit and healthy.

That's a seperate topic too. How much better the team would have been if it had kept all its bits.

[stefoid]

Was it 3qtr time in the granny where matty boyd was speaking to the pack. Man id love to know what he said.

Probably something like:

take it from me, kids -- Ive been in plenty of close preliminary finals. Do whatever you have to do in this next 30 mins if you want to avoid that feeling.

[Twodogs]

Probably something like:

take it from me, kids -- Ive been in plenty of close preliminary finals. Do whatever you have to do in this next 30 mins if you want to avoid that feeling.

"Hey JJ. Over there in about 25 minutes. I'll make sure it's Griff and then just find a way to get it to ya. You run like buggery and Bont you get in front of him. It'll work for sure"

[LostDoggy]

Yes we did 13.11(89)
Perth Wildcats have also scored 89 points in both of their Grand Final matches in their best of five series against the Illawarra Hawks.

In game two, the Hawks were also in front at half time with 45 points on the board. Same situation the Swans found themselves in in the Grand Final.

[Bulldog4life]

He said:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zPbgRZPH8U

You feel as if you could run through a brick wall for Teddy after listening to that.

[Twodogs]

You feel as if you could run through a brick wall for Teddy after listening to that.


He really wants this.

To win tge game. Not for you to run through any sort of wall B4L.

[Bulldog4life]

He really wants this.

To win tge game. Not for you to run through any sort of wall B4L.

Ha ha only a metaphor TD....as if you didn't know.