Best 25 players of the past 50 years

[Webby]

Don't know if anyone's read the Hun today, but this best 25 players of the past 50 years is a strange one.
Basically, nine 'experts' nominated their best 25. They were Malthouse, Brereton, King, Jon Anderson, Glen McFarlane, Jon Ralph, Scott Gullan and Sam Edmund.

They seem to have taken the top 25 from each and reached a consensus top 25.

Quick rundown from a Dogs fan's perspective:

1. Dempsey only got on one panellist's list (Anderson's at 16)
2. Quinlan didn't get nominated in anyone's top 25
3. D Hawkins got into 2 lists (Malthouse's at 7 & Gullan's at 25)
4. Grant got into one list (Gullan's at 20.)
5. Malthouse was very generous to players he coached (Doug at 7, Jakovich at 3, Judd 9, McKenna at 18, Swan 22, Matera 23)
6. Despite the above, Malthouse did not include Nathan Buckley (who appeared in 3 other panellists' lists.) Hate runs deep.
7. Mick also didn't fit ANY Abletts into his top 25... So he's quirky!

8. In Essendon's list of their all time top 50 players released a couple of years back, James Hird appears third. Madden fifth. This is something I pointed out as staggering at the time. The cult of Hird is an incredible thing! For me, there's no question Madden is the best Essendon player I've seen.

Therefore it's interesting to see how Madden and Hird compare when rated by non-Essendon people:
Madden made EVERY list. Hird made just 6 of the 9. Madden was ahead of Hird on all but two lists. One of those was, you guessed it, sycophant Robbo's list. The other was, surprisingly, Scott Gullan.

Gullan, a lifelong Doggies man, was the only 'expert' to have Daicos in his list. He was also the only one to have Darren Jarman (Dogs fans understand this!) as well as Aker. He was also the only one to have more than one Dogs player on his list. He had three (!) in Hawkins, Grant and Aker. He didn't squeeze Dempsey in!

Royce Hart only made 7 of the 11 lists. Meanwhile Carey sat between 1&3 on every list. I think it's clear that Carey would usurp Hart at CHF in any revised "Team of the Century."

Anyway, the apparent consensus top 25 are apparently:

1. Matthews
2. Carey
3. Lockett
4. Ablett Snr
5. Dunstall
6. Ablett Jnr
7. Hudson
8. Madden
9. Bartlett
10. Williams
11. Judd
12. Voss
13. Hart
14. Stewart
15. Hird
16. Franklin
17. Silvagni
18. Doull
19. Jakovich
20. Jezza
=21. Blight & Mitchell
23. Goodes
24. Scarlett
25. Buckley

Call me biased, but if I had a choice between an 18 year old Bernie Quinlan or an 18 year old Jakovich, I'd take Bernie every time. I simply couldn't see Jakovich being able to swing forward and do what Bernie did. Bernie had far more talent. What a difference playing in premierships does for your reputation!

Could be fun to do a Dogs-only list if it hasn't been done before..?
FWIW, I reckon Bontempelli could be hit by a bus tomorrow and still be in the top 2-3... And he's only 21!

[GVGjr]

Thanks Webby, I was having some lunch when I started going through the list. Hird getting high votes

Like you, Quinlan stood out as a huge miss by the HS selectors. They should all be ashamed. I'd have him top 10.

Jezza should not be in a top 25. Overrated by way too many. How does Kouta get top 25 nomination by Scott Gullan?

We've ranked players before but it would be a good idea to do a Bulldogs top 25.
I think we would need to have some sort of criteria on games played to qualify.

[1eyedog]

Thanks Webby.

Personally I think you'd actually get a more accurate assessment having one person who actually knows what they're talking about rather than a heap that don't. Five nuffy journos and Malthouse, who, as you say is completely bias making his votes obsolete. I'd like to have a crack at this but it would take some time. A Bulldogs top 25 would be markedly easier.

Would like to hear David Parkin's for instance.

[Flamethrower]

These lists are so subjective that they become an exercise in futility.

[Webby]

Would like to hear David Parkin's for instance.

I think you're right about the subjectivity. However the top 3 seems pretty unanimous. Interesting you rate Parkin, as I recall him saying that Koutifides was the best player he coached... I remember thinking "But you coached Matthews in his peak!!"

Says to me That Parko would be departing further from the consensus than even Malthouse.

[jeemak]

Which Mitchell was equal 21?

[Before I Die]

When did all games start being videoed and/or played at different times? Prior to this it wasn't possible to see everyone play which makes the process questionable.

If we accept the above list as accurate then the two sub-lists; 'Best 25 players of the past 50 years who also won a Brownlow' and 'Best 25 players of the past 50 years who weren't dickheads' are quite small.

[comrade]

Don't know if anyone's read the Hun today, but this best 25 players of the past 50 years is a strange one.
Basically, nine 'experts' nominated their best 25. They were Malthouse, Brereton, King, Jon Anderson, Glen McFarlane, Jon Ralph, Scott Gullan and Sam Edmund.

They seem to have taken the top 25 from each and reached a consensus top 25.

Quick rundown from a Dogs fan's perspective:

1. Dempsey only got on one panellist's list (Anderson's at 16)
2. Quinlan didn't get nominated in anyone's top 25
3. D Hawkins got into 2 lists (Malthouse's at 7 & Gullan's at 25)
4. Grant got into one list (Gullan's at 20.)
5. Malthouse was very generous to players he coached (Doug at 7, Jakovich at 3, Judd 9, McKenna at 18, Swan 22, Matera 23)
6. Despite the above, Malthouse did not include Nathan Buckley (who appeared in 3 other panellists' lists.) Hate runs deep.
7. Mick also didn't fit ANY Abletts into his top 25... So he's quirky!

8. In Essendon's list of their all time top 50 players released a couple of years back, James Hird appears third. Madden fifth. This is something I pointed out as staggering at the time. The cult of Hird is an incredible thing! For me, there's no question Madden is the best Essendon player I've seen.

Therefore it's interesting to see how Madden and Hird compare when rated by non-Essendon people:
Madden made EVERY list. Hird made just 6 of the 9. Madden was ahead of Hird on all but two lists. One of those was, you guessed it, sycophant Robbo's list. The other was, surprisingly, Scott Gullan.

Gullan, a lifelong Doggies man, was the only 'expert' to have Daicos in his list. He was also the only one to have Darren Jarman (Dogs fans understand this!) as well as Aker. He was also the only one to have more than one Dogs player on his list. He had three (!) in Hawkins, Grant and Aker. He didn't squeeze Dempsey in!

Royce Hart only made 7 of the 11 lists. Meanwhile Carey sat between 1&3 on every list. I think it's clear that Carey would usurp Hart at CHF in any revised "Team of the Century."

Anyway, the apparent consensus top 25 are apparently:

1. Matthews
2. Carey
3. Lockett
4. Ablett Snr
5. Dunstall
6. Ablett Jnr
7. Hudson
8. Madden
9. Bartlett
10. Williams
11. Judd
12. Voss
13. Hart
14. Stewart
15. Hird
16. Franklin
17. Silvagni
18. Doull
19. Jakovich
20. Jezza
=21. Blight & Mitchell
23. Goodes
24. Scarlett
25. Buckley

Call me biased, but if I had a choice between an 18 year old Bernie Quinlan or an 18 year old Jakovich, I'd take Bernie every time. I simply couldn't see Jakovich being able to swing forward and do what Bernie did. Bernie had far more talent. What a difference playing in premierships does for your reputation!

Could be fun to do a Dogs-only list if it hasn't been done before..?
FWIW, I reckon Bontempelli could be hit by a bus tomorrow and still be in the top 2-3... And he's only 21!

Nice to see Ben Hudson, Tom Williams & Trent Bartlett get some well deserved recognition :)

[Before I Die]

Nice to see Ben Hudson, Tom Williams & Trent Bartlett get some well deserved recognition :)

Don't forget Brett Goodes.

[Twodogs]

I'll just make my point and go.

Kelvin Templeton had won two Colemans and a Brownlow (playing in the hardest position on the field) by the time he was 22. He had more talent in his little finger than 99% of the players on everyone else's list. And 99% is being pretty generous to the other players. It's actually 100% but I don't want you to think that I'm gilding the lily about how good KT was so I'll say 99%.

Templeton > every other player I've seen, funnily enough over the last 50 or so years.

That is all.

[Eastdog]

Don't forget Brett Goodes.

That game he played round 1 2013 gives him a strong case.

[Eastdog]

I'll just make my point and go.

Kelvin Templeton had won two Colemans and a Brownlow (playing in the hardest position on the field) by the time he was 22. He had more talent in his little finger than 99% of the players on everyone else's list. And 99% is being pretty generous to the other players. It's actually 100% but I don't want you to think that I'm gilding the lily about how good KT was so I'll say 99%.

Templeton > every other player I've seen, funnily enough over the last 50 or so years.

That is all.

Would have been great to be around and see him play particularly watching that game in 1978 where he kicked 13 odd.

[Remi Moses]

I'll just make my point and go.

Kelvin Templeton had won two Colemans and a Brownlow (playing in the hardest position on the field) by the time he was 22. He had more talent in his little finger than 99% of the players on everyone else's list. And 99% is being pretty generous to the other players. It's actually 100% but I don't want you to think that I'm gilding the lily about how good KT was so I'll say 99%.

Templeton > every other player I've seen, funnily enough over the last 50 or so years.

That is all.
Don't start me on why he isn't in the hall of fame .
One of the sports great injustices

[GVGjr]

I really rated Ross Glendinning and I'm surprised he's not rating a mention.

CHF or CHB and he was a nice accurate kick.

[Twodogs]

Would have been great to be around and see him play particularly watching that game in 1978 where he kicked 13 odd.


15 goals. 9 behinds. Including a couple that fell short and a couple that went out of bounds. That's 30 shots at goal.

Find me a better individual performance in V/AFL history. Best. Player. Ever.

[GVGjr]

I'll just make my point and go.

Kelvin Templeton had won two Colemans and a Brownlow (playing in the hardest position on the field) by the time he was 22. He had more talent in his little finger than 99% of the players on everyone else's list. And 99% is being pretty generous to the other players. It's actually 100% but I don't want you to think that I'm gilding the lily about how good KT was so I'll say 99%.

Templeton > every other player I've seen, funnily enough over the last 50 or so years.

That is all.

There was a 6 year patch of his footy where he was as good as any player to have played but his last 2 seasons with us plus his 3 years at Melbourne, all impacted by his injuries, would distract many from judging him the way most of us did during those years.

His kicking dropped off dramatically and it was sad to see him struggling with the distance from 30 or 40 mtrs out.

Great player.

[Twodogs]

I really rated Ross Glendinning and I'm surprised he's not rating a mention.

CHF or CHB and he was a nice accurate kick.

He was no KT but he was OK for a North player.

[GVGjr]

15 goals. 9 behinds. Including a couple that fell short and a couple that went out of bounds. That's 30 shots at goal.

Find me a better individual performance in V/AFL history. Best. Player. Ever.

You've neglected to mention in that game he received some of the softest marking decisions I can recall after half time :)
It's like everyone were willing him on to kick a bag of goals. It could have easily been 20 goals on that day.

[Twodogs]

You've neglected to mention in that game he received some of the softest marking decisions I can recall after half time :)
It's like everyone were willing him on to kick a bag of goals. It could have easily been 20 goals on that day.


30 shots at goal.


2 Colemans and a Brownlow by the age of 22.


Find me a better record.

[GVGjr]

He was no KT but he was OK for a North player.

Fairly long career, quality player, Brownlow medalist and very versatile. You might be rating him a tad harshly.
He missed some footy was well because he had a few seasons playing in the WAFL before he came across to the AFL

[GVGjr]

30 shots at goal.


2 Colemans and a Brownlow by the age of 22.


Find me a better record.

He was a champ no doubt but he's being judged for his career not up to a certain age and his last few seasons don't do him justice.

[Twodogs]

Fairly long career, quality player, Brownlow medalist and very versatile. You might be rating him a tad harshly.
He missed some footy was well because he had a few seasons playing in the WAFL before he came across to the AFL


That just means Templeton acheived pretty much Everything Glendinning did (except Glendenning wasn't a centurion goal kicker nor did he win two Colemans) in roughly half the playing time. If Glendenning's career was effectively over by the time he was 22 (as KT's was) we would never had heard of him. He wouldn't have won a Brownlow, captained a VFL team (or two) or even played VFL football.

KT>>>>>>>Glendenning.

[GVGjr]

That just means Templeton acheived pretty much Everything Glendinning did (except Glendenning wasn't a centurion goal kicker nor did he win two Colemans) in roughly half the playing time. If Glendenning's career was effectively over by the time he was 22 (as KT's was) we would never had heard of him. He wouldn't have won a Brownlow, captained a VFL team (or two) or even played VFL football.

KT>>>>>>>Glendenning.

I'm not saying Glendinning was a better player than KT when both were at their best but he had a very good career over the journey.
KT struggled over his last 4 or 5 years and even you would have to agree.

[Twodogs]

I'm not saying Glendinning was a better player than KT when both were at their best but he had a very good career over the journey.
KT struggled over his last 4 or 5 years and even you would have to agree.

Templeton was playing on one leg for the last half of his career. Maybe if Glendenning had won a Brownlow or a Coleman hobbling around on one leg (not that I'm saying that KT won his awards on one leg, just that Glenndenning didn't either but it still took him twice as long to achieve half what KT did) then I'd agree he was a better player. But he didn't. He achieved almost as much as KT in roughly twice the time.

Hell if he'd even led his club goalkicking on one leg with 50+ goals (like Templeton did at Melbourne) then maybe he got close to KT in one aspect of football.




He was a champ no doubt but he's being judged for his career not up to a certain age and his last few seasons don't do him justice.


It was judging the best player I thought? It's not Templeton's fault that he hobbled through the last few years on one leg (mind you he kicked 50+ goals one year at Melbourne on that one leg! how many other players have kicked 50 goals in a season playing on one leg?) On any objective analysis carried out by anyone who knows football Templeton packed more into a 6 year career than most other champion players did in 10-15 years. Six years of playing football on two legs and he won three major AFL awards. Who else has a record of winning the comp's major awards in half the seasons he completed?

Just to finish off, this is a list of KT's acheivments and awards a friend of mine published on the Australianfootball.com site


Kelvin Templeton was a once in a generation player as a glance at his dazzling CV will attest:


-The first key forward to claim the Charles Brownlow Medal (1980).
-Two club best and fairest awards (1978 and 1980).
-Back-to-back leading goalkicker awards in the VFL (1978 and 1979).
-First player in VFL history to have separate 100-goal (1978) and Brownlow Medal (1980) seasons.
-First player from his club to top a century of goals in one season.
-Lead his club goal kicking tally for five consecutive seasons (1976-1980).
-Gained interstate selection with Victoria four seasons in a row (1977-1980).
-78-game consecutive goal-scoring streak.
- See more at: http://australianfootball.com/articles/view/A%2BHall%2Bof%2BFame%2Boversight/2003#sthash.rPFsnU6A.dpuf

Better that record. I can understand supporters of other clubs not wanting to admit what a great player KT was or even younger bulldog supporters not assuming that the best player our generation ever saw played with us. What I can't understand is supporters who saw most of his career forgetting what an unbelievably great, versatile player he was. His bulldog career is only second to Ted Whitten's.

[Webby]

It was judging the best player I thought? It's not Templeton's fault that he hobbled through the last few years on one leg (mind you he kicked 50+ goals one year at Melbourne on that one leg! how many other players have kicked 50 goals in a season playing on one leg?) On any objective analysis carried out by anyone who knows football Templeton packed more into a 6 year career than most other champion players did in 10-15 years. Six years of playing football on two legs and he won three major AFL awards. Who else has a record of winning the comp's major awards in half the seasons he completed?

Don't get me started on Scott West not being on the list either.

Scott West I can kind of understand. Great extractor of the footy, but lacked the damaging, match winning edge to his game. Exceptionally consistent, but I often suspected the opposition would, I don't want to say allow, but I will say that they would not mind having West carry the footy or kick it. If he had Jarman or Harvey's foot skills or some ball carrying ability, he'd have bolted it in.

On KT, I firmly believe there's a case for him to be top 10. I won't go into detail why as I've mentioned it all before. Two Colemans and a Brownlow by 22 (and a Brownlow from CHF, no less!) are compelling.

I actually think we're the reason KT isn't in the HOF. Partly because we're small and quiet, and partly because KT left is, we don't seem to have pushed his case all that hard.

[Twodogs]

Scott West I can kind of understand. Great extractor of the footy, but lacked the damaging, match winning edge to his game. Exceptionally consistent, but I often suspected the opposition would, I don't want to say allow, but I will say that they would not mind having West carry the footy or kick it. If he had Jarman or Harvey's foot skills or some ball carrying ability, he'd have bolted it in.

On KT, I firmly believe there's a case for him to be top 10. I won't go into detail why as I've mentioned it all before. Two Colemans and a Brownlow by 22 (and a Brownlow from CHF, no less!) are compelling.

I actually think we're the reason KT isn't in the HOF. Partly because we're small and quiet, and partly because KT left is, we don't seem to have pushed his case all that hard.



Scott West hit targets by foot at a rate of almost 70% over most of his career (mostly over 25-30 metres, maybe, but they hit a target 3/4s of the time) and his hands were wven better. The "Scott West can't kick to save himself" was an urban myth. Add that to the fact that Scooter got 700+ possessions a season and leaving him out is preposterous.

We shouldn't have to push our players in front of the judges. It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain how good they were.

[hujsh]

No Bontempelli=shit list

[bornadog]

We shouldn't have to push our players in front of the judges. It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain how good they were.

We have always been ignored over the years. You look at things like the mark of the year, or goal of the year, rising star, or DVDs produced showing the season highlights and we are mostly absent.

Chris Grant, Dougie Hawkins, absolute champions hardly ever beaten on their day, and consistent throughout their career. Gary Dempsey, one of the best ruckman ever, is all hardly ever talked about. Yes 2016, we had alot of publicity, only after winning the GF. No one gave us a chance in the finals and this year I have already heard on the radio, callers saying we won't even make the 8. No one is saying we are a top 2 side. We are ignored.

I have learnt to just ignore as well - these stupid lists produced by so called experts who are mesmerised by the Hirds, the Ablett's and Careys and Carlton, Collingwood and Richmonds of the world.

[1eyedog]

I think you're right about the subjectivity. However the top 3 seems pretty unanimous. Interesting you rate Parkin, as I recall him saying that Koutifides was the best player he coached... I remember thinking "But you coached Matthews in his peak!!"

Says to me That Parko would be departing further from the consensus than even Malthouse.

Did he really say that? That's surprising I always respected Parko's seemingly objective opinion. I'd have Matthews, Ablett Snr, Carey, Lockett...


15 goals. 9 behinds. Including a couple that fell short and a couple that went out of bounds. That's 30 shots at goal.

Find me a better individual performance in V/AFL history. Best. Player. Ever.

All our players needed to do that day was kick it near KT and the umpire blew the whistle.

Based on the sample size there's little doubt he's somewhere between 5-10 for me. If he had of played a full career unimpeded by injury he'd easily crack top 3. His Brownlow year from CHF was the best year of football I've ever seen anyone play ever.

[Webby]

When you think that there have been between 12 & 18 teams in the VFL/AFL at all times over the past 50 years and 14+ for the majority of it, the law of averages says that we'd be lucky to have more than one to two players on the list. Grant and Doug are stiff, but it's not outrageous that they'd miss out. KT and definitely Quinlan have a strong case.

Melbourne fans (with absolutely every right) would be complaining about Robbie Flower missing
Richmond would have fans howling about Francis Bourke missing.
Hawthorn fans would be howling about Hodge, Tuck and even Platten missing.
Norf fans about Greig and Dench... And probably even Boomer..
Crows fans about McLeod & Ricciuto.
Dockers fans about Pavlich
Fitzroy fans about Bernie Quinlan and perhaps Garry Wilson
Brisbane fans about Simon Black
Eagles fans about Peter Matera
Aints fans about Riewoldt and Harvey
Blues fans about Kouta and probably Sticks
Bombers fans about just about everything
Pies fans about Millane, Daicos, Thompson, Swan and Buckley
Swans fans about Goodes and Kelly
Port fans about Wanganeen (along with support from the Bombers fans complaining about everything..)
Geelong fans about Scarlett and probably Dangerfield.


Point is, with just 25 spots, there's a lot to squeeze in. It'd probably be more fun to do our own!

[Twodogs]

[QUOTE=Webby;544901]When you think that there have been between 12 & 18 teams in the VFL/AFL at all times over the past 50 years and 14+ for the majority of it, the law of averages says that we'd be lucky to have more than one to two players on the list. Grant and Doug are stiff, but it's not outrageous that they'd miss out. KT and definitely Quinlan have a strong case.

Melbourne fans (with absolutely every right) would be complaining about Robbie Flower missing
Richmond would have fans howling about Francis Bourke missing.
Hawthorn fans would be howling about Hodge, Tuck and even Platten missing.
Norf fans about Greig and Dench... And probably even Boomer..
Crows fans about McLeod & Ricciuto.
Dockers fans about Pavlich
Fitzroy fans about Bernie Quinlan and perhaps Garry Wilson
Brisbane fans about Simon Black
Eagles fans about Peter Matera
Aints fans about Riewoldt and Harvey
Blues fans about Kouta and probably Sticks
Bombers fans about just about everything
Pies fans about Millane, Daicos, Thompson, Swan and Buckley
Swans fans about Goodes and Kelly
Port fans about Wanganeen (along with support from the Bombers fans complaining about everything..)
Geelong fans about Scarlett and probably Dangerfield.


Point is, with just 25 spots, there's a lot to squeeze in. It'd probably be more fun to do our own![/QUOT


As a matter of interest I consider Kernahan to be the most overrated player I've ever seen. Massive downhill skier who went to pieces when faced with the slightest pressure. Remember that goal he missed from the goal square to win the game after the siren?

[The Doctor]

Players I would choose ahead of Buckley off the top of my head

John Platten
Tim Watson
Robbie Flower
Keith Greig
Gary Dempsey
Ross Glendenning
Gary Ayres
Andrew Mcleod
John Nicholls
David Dench
Luke Hodge
Chris Grant
Wayne Johnston
Wayne Schimmelbusch
Bernie Quinlan
Kelvin Templeton
Darren Jarman
Jason Akermanis
Ben Cousins

[Twodogs]

Players I would choose ahead of Buckley off the top of my head

John Platten
Tim Watson
Robbie Flower
Keith Greig
Gary Dempsey
Ross Glendenning
Gary Ayres
Andrew Mcleod
John Nicholls
David Dench
Luke Hodge
Chris Grant
Wayne Johnston
Wayne Schimmelbusch
Bernie Quinlan
Kelvin Templeton
Darren Jarman
Jason Akermanis
Ben Cousins



Simon Black
Brad Johnson
Scott West
Jonathan Brown
Nigel Lappin
Darryl White

[Ozza]

As a matter of interest I consider Kernahan to be the most overrated player I've ever seen. Massive downhill skier who went to pieces when faced with the slightest pressure. Remember that goal he missed from the goal square to win the game after the siren?

Can't really agree on this one. He may have missed one after the siren in a home and away game - but Stick's finals and grand finals records is very very good.

[Twodogs]

Can't really agree on this one. He may have missed one after the siren in a home and away game - but Stick's finals and grand finals records is very very good.

You're probably right. I just never liked the bloke for some reason.

[Ozza]

You're probably right. I just never liked the bloke for some reason.

He played for Carlton in the 80s and 90s....I'd say that was plenty enough reason.

[Greystache]

Can't really agree on this one. He may have missed one after the siren in a home and away game - but Stick's finals and grand finals records is very very good.

He kicked 7 in the losing 1993 Grand Final from memory, and 5 in 1995.

[The Doctor]

Brereton is another i'd pick ahead of Buckley

[Twodogs]

Brereton is another i'd pick ahead of Buckley

Dermie was a gun.

[GVGjr]

Do players that have won premierships get rated higher than those who didn't?

[Ozza]

Yes I think so. I don't necessarily think a player should be rated higher due to being part of a team achievement. Although I do think players who have been exceptional in grand finals (like Dermie) deserve some extra adulation.

[Go_Dogs]

Yes I think so. I don't necessarily think a player should be rated higher due to being part of a team achievement. Although I do think players who have been exceptional in grand finals (like Dermie) deserve some extra adulation.

This is it - playing in a strong side allows a player the opportunity to impress on the biggest stages, which is often fairly enough given more weight. Thankfully our players are building/have built that reputation now.

I'm not old enough to contribute to this list, but Grant would be the one that's missing for me.

[1eyedog]

Brereton is another i'd pick ahead of Buckley

Absolutely.

[jeemak]

Do players that have won premierships get rated higher than those who didn't?

Absolutely.

Except ours from last year, it seems.

[LostDoggy]

And yet the man whose name adorns the medal for the best player over the finals series each year- Gary Ayres-can't crack the 25.