Three things I've learned-round 3 V Freo.

[Twodogs]

Three-o, Three-0
Tell us three things
You learned against Freo.

[bulldogtragic]

1. I thought our team wouldn't squander a 14 point lead at 3/4 time. I thought that stuff was a thing of another time.
2. I like Fletch Roberts officially.
3. Tom Campbell 'might' just be a younger Will Minson. We know what Bevo thinks of those types of ruckmen.

[AndrewP6]

1. Travis Cloke isn't the panacea (I knew this already, but thhought I'd repeat it!)
2. The demons of the past, though very quiet, are still there.
3. We really, really, really need Rough back. And we're not getting him for a while...

[bulldogtragic]

4. Losing 5 games left us in 7th spot last year. I'd hope to improve. That's 1 now.

[bornadog]

1. You have to work hard to win games - this was a kick up the backside to remind us.

2. Adams, my god - some good things but the old brain fade cost us

3. I hate playing at that venue.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

1. Daniel needs to be dropped. Decision making and skill execution is so poor, if he's not doing those two things well then he shouldn't be playing.

2. We have a genuine issue with clearances and contested ball, I suspect it's more from an attitude perspective.

3. We have too many half backs in this side.

[Remi Moses]

1. Turn up with a bad attitude, or no work rate, you get beat in this comp.
2. I was less confident as soon as I saw Dawson out of their side.
2. Fingers crossed this is the kick in the bum we need

[GVGjr]

1) It's a 4 quarter game and slow starts and slower finishes are awful to watch
2) Our skill level isn't really improving and yet it was a focus when Bevo arrived
3) Wins have covered just how far we are off the mark when the work ethic isn't quite there

[westbulldog]

1. Half the team obviously enjoy frequent flyer points more than the contest.
2. Campbell wouldn't get a gig next week if we had anyone to replace him.
3. Fletcher Roberts is doing some good work this year.

[always right]

Jong continues to impress.
Our game plan needs tweaking. We don't we get numbers to the ball anymore?
I get really nervous when Adams and Biggs are under pressure deep in defence.

[Twodogs]

1/ if you turn up and aren't totally switched on then you will lose
2/ I'd have liked Hamling to be playing for us
3/ we miss Roughie

[The bulldog tragician]

Losing still hurts. A lot.
Adams makes me unbelievably nervous.
Biggs' loss of form shows what an important player he has been for us. He was such a linkman in transition out of defence.

and a fourth - it was a really bad time for us to lose Joel Hamling. He's got a lot of upside.

[josie]

1) Losing, even if your team won the GF the year prior, still sucks
2) No 3rd man up rule has really hurt us
3) I miss men of mayhem

[jeemak]

1. Effort and set up are the most important aspects of the game these days given the competition is as tight as it is

2. We have multiple players really struggling, more than I thought they were and it's costing us

3. Libba isn't used well on the inside as heavily or in the particular way he is. We need to find a way to free him up so he can use his leg and get his hands on the footy more than he is. We don't have enough elite kicks in the side to hide him, perhaps when Wallis comes back into the fold we can free Libba up a bit

[Danny the snakeman]

1. Don't mouth off at 3/4 it will bite me on the bum.
2.After a great night on fri with the premiership cup the dogs can spoil a perfect weekend.
3. cant think of third too disappointed.
PS. We really missed Picken, probably would have won if he wasn't injured.

[ratsmac]

1. We aren't as good as we think we are. Reality check.

2. We are carrying passengers at the moment.

3. Minson apparently is still available for selection even through he retired.

[chef]

1. Gee some on here are quick to turn. Cut the champs a bit of slack.

2. Hunter is now elite. Love the way he goes about it.

3. Freo at Subiaco is a tough nut for us to crack. They were up for it last night and would have beaten anyone with a performance like that. The sky isnt falling.

[1eyedog]

1. Gee some on here are quick to turn. Cut the champs a bit of slack.

2. Hunter is now elite. Love the way he goes about it.

3. Freo at Subiaco is a tough nut for us to crack. They were up for it last night and would have beaten anyone with a performance like that. The sky isnt falling.

Yep. Try telling Sydney they can't finish top 4. Thing is though EVERY other team will be up for it against us. We have to play at a consistently high level to do the same.

[Flamethrower]

1. We haven't beaten the Dockers at Subiaco for over 8 years when Sandilands has played (last win R1, 2009).

2. For some journos "doing research" means visiting a suburb in Melbourne. Sorry goose, Minson has retired...perhaps we should give Dempsey a game. Or perhaps EJ.

3. We are going to struggle all year against teams with an A grade ruckman and elite midfield like Sandi, Fyfe, Neale & Mundy.

[boydogs]

4. Losing 5 games left us in 7th spot last year. I'd hope to improve. That's 1 now.

7 games

[bulldogtragic]

7 games

Yeah. I thought it was off, numerical dyslexia on my part. Still one we shouldn't have given up.

[comrade]

Yeah. I thought it was off, numerical dyslexia on my part. Still one we shouldn't have given up.

It's equal to Saints or Freo loss from last year. Now we need to pull one back that we may have expected to drop (GWS or Crows away, Geelong etc).

[bulldogtragic]

It's equal to Saints or Freo loss from last year. Now we need to pull one back that we may have expected to drop (GWS or Crows away, Geelong etc).

Yep. That's some pressure they've put on themselves. Now to deliver.

[jeemak]

We could lose one more game and finish higher on the ladder than we did in 2016. In 2014, 14 wins was enough to get you into 5th post the home and away series. In 2013 and 2015 it would get you into sixth.

[bornadog]

Under Bevo we have lost round 3 matches in each year.

[LostDoggy]

1. Gee some on here are quick to turn. Cut the champs a bit of slack.

2. Hunter is now elite. Love the way he goes about it.

3. Freo at Subiaco is a tough nut for us to crack. They were up for it last night and would have beaten anyone with a performance like that. The sky isnt falling.

This.

[Twodogs]

1. We haven't beaten the Dockers at Subiaco for over 8 years when Sandilands has played (last win R1, 2009).

2. For some journos "doing research" means visiting a suburb in Melbourne. Sorry goose, Minson has retired...perhaps we should give Dempsey a game. Or perhaps EJ.

3. We are going to struggle all year against teams with an A grade ruckman and elite midfield like Sandi, Fyfe, Neale & Mundy.

I saw him interviewed during the flag presentation. He looked fit enough to play.

[S Coast Simon]

1. When it's not your night it's not your night. Every loose ball bounced into Freo's hands it was hard to watch.
2. would like to get Hamling back
3. It is only early in the season. Few boys out of form but will all come together nicely in time.

[LostDoggy]

1.We are Heave Ho's Biatch @ Subi.
2.Couldn't have been more off Sat. Night.The last time we made so many mistakes in a game-Macca was coach.
3.Hunter is fast becoming Elite.

[merantau]

1. Football is a funny game because the bounce of the ball can be fickle. Freo were less fickled than us on the night.
2. We faded massively in the last quarter due to a failure to get numbers to the contest and by not being mentally switched on. Our dominant 3rd quarter lulled us into a false sense of security.
3. We did not convert enough chances in the 3rd quarter

[craigsahibee]

1. When Marcus Adams has the ball he should kick it as far away from himself as possible.
2. When Marcus Adams has the ball he should kick it even further away from himself as possible.
3. When Marcus Adams has the ball he should kick it even further away from himself than he has ever kicked it before.

[comrade]

1. When Marcus Adams has the ball he should kick it as far away from himself as possible.
2. When Marcus Adams has the ball he should kick it even further away from himself as possible.
3. When Marcus Adams has the ball he should kick it even further away from himself than he has ever kicked it before.

He should have the easiest instructions of all time. Mark ball, kick ball looooooooong.

[SlimPickens]

He should have the easiest instructions of all time. Mark ball, kick ball looooooooong.

He would be the worst 10m disposal by hand or foot I've seen. Needs to be coached to simplify his thought process.

[bornadog]

1. When Marcus Adams has the ball he should kick it as far away from himself as possible.
2. When Marcus Adams has the ball he should kick it even further away from himself as possible.
3. When Marcus Adams has the ball he should kick it even further away from himself than he has ever kicked it before.

The very reason I have had my doubts on him.

[ratsmac]

The very reason I have had my doubts on him.

Imagine he had the ball 10 metres from goal being indecisive in the prelim with Toby Green bearing down on him. :eek:

[Twodogs]

Imagine he had the ball 10 metres from goal being indecisive in the prelim with Toby Green bearing down on him. :eek:

That would have made that prelim one to add to the list.

[bornadog]

Imagine he had the ball 10 metres from goal being indecisive in the prelim with Toby Green bearing down on him. :eek:

Stop freaking me out :D:D

[bulldogtragic]

Imagine he had the ball 10 metres from goal being indecisive in the prelim with Toby Green bearing down on him. :eek:

Like Hamling did at the start of the second quarter, in which Green goaled?

[1eyedog]

He's played 13 games or about the same of Cordy. His potential ceiling far outweighs the few kicking mistakes he's made. Give him another 13 games and we'll start to see what we have (or haven't). He's very important for us know that Morris is out we need him to work out and leverage off the confidence and potential he showed at times last year. There was one stage we were lamenting the fact he was not available at the back end of last season.

[comrade]

He's played 13 games or about the same of Cordy. His potential ceiling far outweighs the few kicking mistakes he's made. Give him another 13 games and we'll start to see what we have (or haven't). He's very important for us know that Morris is out we need him to work out and leverage off the confidence and potential he showed at times last year. There was one stage we were lamenting the fact he was not available at the back end of last season.

He does 80% of his job really well. When he tries to extend himself beyond his current capabilities, he's a liability. So the answer is simple: stick to the 80% that he's capable of and he'll carve out a good career. Dale Morris is the perfect role model.

[craigsahibee]

He does 80% of his job really well. When he tries to extend himself beyond his current capabilities, he's a liability. So the answer is simple: stick to the 80% that he's capable of and he'll carve out a good career. Dale Morris is the perfect role model.

Exactly. As a great man once said "A man's gotta know his limitations"

If Marcus sticks to what he's good at, he will play 100+ games at the elite level.

[hujsh]

To the 'same old dogs' crowd do please have a bit of perspective and realise every team loses games they should win every year. Even the best teams. Sure it's disappointing to lose but it's not like Essendon losing to us in 2000 hurt their premiership chances and it's not like the Patriots going unbeaten one year stopped them from losing the Superbowl.

If it becomes a habit then maybe hit the panic button

[bulldogsthru&thru]

To the 'same old dogs' crowd do please have a bit of perspective and realise every team loses games they should win every year. Even the best teams. Sure it's disappointing to lose but it's not like Essendon losing to us in 2000 hurt their premiership chances and it's not like the Patriots going unbeaten one year stopped them from losing the Superbowl.

If it becomes a habit then maybe hit the panic button

Agreed. But the problems of the first 3 weeks are a little concerning if they are not rectified soon. That is, our midfield and pressure and winning the contested ball (our bread and butter last year) and our slowness. We look so so slow out there.

[comrade]

To the 'same old dogs' crowd do please have a bit of perspective and realise every team loses games they should win every year. Even the best teams. Sure it's disappointing to lose but it's not like Essendon losing to us in 2000 hurt their premiership chances and it's not like the Patriots going unbeaten one year stopped them from losing the Superbowl.

If it becomes a habit then maybe hit the panic button

Yep, it's a little disrespectful after what they gave us last year.

[Ozza]

Yep, it's a little disrespectful after what they gave us last year.

Geeze, I don't think anyone has savaged the team by any stretch. I think it is ok to look at the areas that haven't been working well for us this season and discuss it.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Geeze, I don't think anyone has savaged the team by any stretch. I think it is ok to look at the areas that haven't been working well for us this season and discuss it.

Agreed - this is a forum after all.

As great as last year was - and it was bloody amazing - I still want us to improve in 2017 and would be bitterly disappointed if we weren't ruthless in doing so.

[comrade]

Geeze, I don't think anyone has savaged the team by any stretch. I think it is ok to look at the areas that haven't been working well for us this season and discuss it.

Yeah, of course. It wouldn't be much of a forum if we couldn't query the team's performance. But the 'same old Dogs' vibe of some posts is pretty off the mark. Ironically, I thought we'd seen the last of the same old 'same old Dogs' posts.

[comrade]

Agreed - this is a forum after all.

As great as last year was - and it was bloody amazing - I still want us to improve in 2017 and would be bitterly disappointed if we weren't ruthless in doing so.

Do you really think Bevo, a winner everywhere he's gone, isn't going to ruthlessly exhaust every possible avenue to achieve more success? And this is based off 3 weeks of footy where we're 2-1?

I get we're not playing exactly like we did during the finals, but I don't think that's an accident.

[ratsmac]

Do you really think Bevo, a winner everywhere he's gone, isn't going to ruthlessly exhaust every possible avenue to achieve more success? And this is based off 3 weeks of footy where we're 2-1?

I get we're not playing exactly like we did during the finals, but I don't think that's an accident.

Exactly right. We don't want show our hand now. Surprise with a couple of aces come finals time. We should be just doing enough to win games at this early stage of the season and build as the season goes. Obviously the Freo result was an unexpected bump in the road.

[Twodogs]

Do you really think Bevo, a winner everywhere he's gone, isn't going to ruthlessly exhaust every possible avenue to achieve more success? And this is based off 3 weeks of footy where we're 2-1?

I get we're not playing exactly like we did during the finals, but I don't think that's an accident.

That's what I think too. Hopefully we are keeping ahead of the pack.

[always right]

Exactly right. We don't want show our hand now. Surprise with a couple of aces come finals time. We should be just doing enough to win games at this early stage of the season and build as the season goes. Obviously the Freo result was an unexpected bump in the road.

With all due respect, I think it is a little generous to suggest we can just turn a switch on when we feel like it. I have no doubt we have tweaked our game plan but I don't think we are that good a team that we can do just enough to win during the season and then introduce our master plan come finals time.

[bornadog]

With all due respect, I think it is a little generous to suggest we can just turn a switch on when we feel like it. I have no doubt we have tweaked our game plan but I don't think we are that good a team that we can do just enough to win during the season and then introduce our master plan come finals time.

My mate, a Hawthorn supporter said, the Hawks always started slowly in the years following on from the GF. I am still confident we will build up as the season gets going. Agree though there is no magic switch.

[Remi Moses]

To the 'same old dogs' crowd do please have a bit of perspective and realise every team loses games they should win every year. Even the best teams. Sure it's disappointing to lose but it's not like Essendon losing to us in 2000 hurt their premiership chances and it's not like the Patriots going unbeaten one year stopped them from losing the Superbowl.

If it becomes a habit then maybe hit the panic button
Agree with this . Haven't got an issue with people disappointed after a loss , and being swept up in the heat of the moment, but some of the language is very panic button knee jerk . No doubt we haven't fired on all cylinders , but it's just a tad early for wrist slashing .

[The Bulldogs Bite]

With all due respect, I think it is a little generous to suggest we can just turn a switch on when we feel like it. I have no doubt we have tweaked our game plan but I don't think we are that good a team that we can do just enough to win during the season and then introduce our master plan come finals time.

Yep - it is comical to think we are 'hiding' our real gameplan.

Some of the responses in this thread seem over protective; haven't seen anyone crucify Bevo or the club, only read valid points which make for good discussion.

[Sedat]

Whilst we are only just going at the minute (and have all season thus far), I don't want us to be unstoppable in April and burn out as the season progresses. It's not about switching it on and off at a whim, but it is such a brutally long season we simply need to treat the season as a marathon and not a sprint, and hit our highest gears later in the season.

To be honest, I'd sign off on 6-4 or even 5-5 (not ideal) at the bye with a view to having a 100% fit and healthy list capable hitting our physical peak in the 2nd half of the season.

[GVGjr]

My mate, a Hawthorn supporter said, the Hawks always started slowly in the years following on from the GF. I am still confident we will build up as the season gets going. Agree though there is no magic switch.

I think your mate is wrong.
They won their drought breaking premiership in 2008 and then finished 9th in 2009. That isn't a slow start, that isn't handling success.

They of course won again in 2013, 2014 and 2015 but in 2014 (the year after their 'next flag') they won 6 of the first 7 of the home and away games recording 5 wins of around 50 points or more which included a 145 point thrashing of the Saints. That isn't a slow start by anyone's definition.

They were patchy in 2015 but handed out a number of beatings while also losing a few games by less than 12 points. I wouldn't call it a slow start but it wasn't the greatest of starts to the year.

Your mate might be saying things he thinks you want to hear but from what I can see he's off the mark.

[GVGjr]

Whilst we are only just going at the minute (and have all season thus far), I don't want us to be unstoppable in April and burn out as the season progresses. It's not about switching it on and off at a whim, but it is such a brutally long season we simply need to treat the season as a marathon and not a sprint, and hit our highest gears later in the season.

To be honest, I'd sign off on 6-4 or even 5-5 (not ideal) at the bye with a view to having a 100% fit and healthy list capable hitting our physical peak in the 2nd half of the season.

We need to be better than that. Champion teams don't pace themselves they set the pace. The competition needs to be respected and I'd rather be adjusting the levers from a strong position than having to catch up at the pointy end.

[GVGjr]

Yep - it is comical to think we are 'hiding' our real gameplan.

Some of the responses in this thread seem over protective; haven't seen anyone crucify Bevo or the club, only read valid points which make for good discussion.

Agreed, I've looked through the thread and no one has lined up Bevo. There might not have been the rah rah some expected because of last season's outstanding result but in the main the points of concern with our performances so far have been presented in a good manner to promote good discussion.

Rightly or wrongly last years success has set a high benchmark for our club and there is no reason why we can't be very competitive again this year. If we are playing well and lose some games along the way we will accept it but if we aren't playing well then there is no reason why we shouldn't be discussing it in the manner we have.

[LostDoggy]

Bevo lulling all the other teams and coaches into a false sense of hope with our different approach and structures that we have adopted this year. When we get to the business end of the year Bevo will flick the switch and lower the sonic boom back to how we played last year. By then it'll be too late for the other pretenders to switch back and cope with our Men of Mayhem style.

[Sedat]

We need to be better than that. Champion teams don't pace themselves they set the pace. The competition needs to be respected and I'd rather be adjusting the levers from a strong position than having to catch up at the pointy end.
History is littered with teams that start like a house on fire and fall away at the crucial pointy end. Geelong 2008, St Kilda 2009, Collingwood 2011, Hawthorn 2012, Sydney 2014 are all recent and relevant examples of champion teams dominating seasons but stuttering come the business end.

I would of course like us to be 7-3 or better but I will not be throwing the baby out with the bathwater if we turn halfway slightly worse (on the proviso that out list is fit and healthy). I do agree that it is more advantageous to bank the wins early so we aren't forced to have to win a bunch in a row at the back end.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Agreed, I've looked through the thread and no one has lined up Bevo. There might not have been the rah rah some expected because of last season's outstanding result but in the main the points of concern with our performances so far have been presented in a good manner to promote good discussion.

Rightly or wrongly last years success has set a high benchmark for our club and there is no reason why we can't be very competitive again this year. If we are playing well and lose some games along the way we will accept it but if we aren't playing well then there is no reason why we shouldn't be discussing it in the manner we have.
There has been some early worrying signs particularly in the new composition of our side. We have lost Roughead our best ruckman and arguably our best defender in Morris and best goal kicking forward in Dickson.
Crameri is still to hit his straps and we do lack the aggression of Clay Smith IMO.The fact that four of our forwards in Cloke Boyd Stringer and Dahlhaus who was one of our best against Freo, could only muster one goal between them is cause for concern.
I think the team is still adjusting to Cloke as our number one key forward. Tom Boyd is still to recapture his standout 2016 Finals campaign. A win over North on Good Friday will be important and a tough assignment after having to confront a 6 day break after the trip to the West.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

History is littered with teams that start like a house on fire and fall away at the crucial pointy end. Geelong 2008, St Kilda 2009, Collingwood 2011, Hawthorn 2012, Sydney 2014 are all recent and relevant examples of champion teams dominating seasons but stuttering come the business end.

I would of course like us to be 7-3 or better but I will not be throwing the baby out with the bathwater if we turn halfway slightly worse (on the proviso that out list is fit and healthy). I do agree that it is more advantageous to bank the wins early so we aren't forced to have to win a bunch in a row at the back end.

It can work both ways though - if we leave our run too late, we may spend too many petrol tickets in just getting ourselves into contention. History says sides who have had to win bulks of games to make finals late end up capitulating. Different teams I know - but the likes of Richmond spring to mind (Didn't they win 9 in a row, then lose in Finals Week 1 by almost 100?), Hawthorn in 2009 (Missed it by losing the last game v Essendon but they were cooked) and even West Coast last year.

Just on those sides:

Geelong 08 - Probably should have won on GF day, but they couldn't hit the side of a barn. Still - I wouldn't say they fell away.
Saints 09 - Had it been for a regular bounce of the ball, Milne kicks the goal and they win.
Hawthorn 12 - Again, I'm not sure they fell away. Lost in a tight contest v Sydney.
Sydney 14 - Capitulated on GF day but they punished Norf in the PF and were favourites for the GF.

I don't remember much about Collingwood in 11 - all I know is they got smashed by Geelong late in the season and fell away after HF v Geelong in the GF.

Moral of the story, I don't like the notion of easing our way into the season and I think it creates a false sense of security for supporters to believe their side can "flick the switch". Do we want to be playing our absolute best footy right now? Probably not, but we want to be winning games we should be winning.

[comrade]

Yep - it is comical to think we are 'hiding' our real gameplan.

Some of the responses in this thread seem over protective; haven't seen anyone crucify Bevo or the club, only read valid points which make for good discussion.

Not overly protective, just being realistic.

We're missing our best ruck man, our best defender and our most efficient forward, whilst dealing with rule changes that were implemented purely to stop our strengths and plenty here are disappointed we haven't shot out of the blocks?

It might not be great for generating discussion but I'm happy to trust Bevo. He seems to know a bit about winning.

[1eyedog]

I find the level of dissemination of our game last week quite incredible. What are you expecting? An automatic dynastic run through season 2017 with a bunch of 21 year olds that you over-estimated or demanded too much from? We'll win, we'll lose we are a developing side with a developing coach. We are not yet at the level where we play consistently at our best or put teams away but I don't expect we are, we're not actually supposed to be in our window yet! Last year's flag was 5 doses of luck with 10 doses of sheer determination and 2 doses of brilliance. The list has it have faith in the coaching staff to bring it out.

[bornadog]

Your mate might be saying things he thinks you want to hear but from what I can see he's off the mark.

He said that last year, nothing to do with us. It was just something I remember he said during the year.

I for one will not be potting Bevo on two losses in the last 11 games. I was always worried about Freo as we haven't beaten them at Subi since 2009, and god only knows how many we have ever won at Subo over the years. Yes we should have beaten them last week.

It is a long season and we have plenty to look forward to.

[GVGjr]

I find the level of dissemination of our game last week quite incredible. What are you expecting? An automatic dynastic run through season 2017 with a bunch of 21 year olds that you over-estimated or demanded too much from? We'll win, we'll lose we are a developing side with a developing coach. We are not yet at the level where we play consistently at our best or put teams away but I don't expect we are, we're not actually supposed to be in our window yet! Last year's flag was 5 doses of luck with 10 doses of sheer determination and 2 doses of brilliance. The list has it have faith in the coaching staff to bring it out.

I'm not expecting to see us get jumped in the first quarter by a team that was very poor the previous 2 weeks and from a team that has won only 2 games in the previous 12 ironically both of those wins have been against us.
I'm also not expecting us to not fire a shot in the last quarter. I am expecting us to be competitive in just about every game we play and I think these reasonable and fair expectations.

We played last year with a long injury list to key players and while we are missing a few now I still expect to see us be competitive.

In my opinion we weren't in 'our window' in 2016 and yet prevailed when it counted and our team now has a far better balance of experienced players and also has a group of players with winning finals experience.

No one has said they don't have faith in the coaching staff in fact far from it. I'm as excited now as I was before the season started.

[GVGjr]

There has been some early worrying signs particularly in the new composition of our side. We have lost Roughead our best ruckman and arguably our best defender in Morris and best goal kicking forward in Dickson.
Crameri is still to hit his straps and we do lack the aggression of Clay Smith IMO.The fact that four of our forwards in Cloke Boyd Stringer and Dahlhaus who was one of our best against Freo, could only muster one goal between them is cause for concern.
I think the team is still adjusting to Cloke as our number one key forward. Tom Boyd is still to recapture his standout 2016 Finals campaign. A win over North on Good Friday will be important and a tough assignment after having to confront a 6 day break after the trip to the West.

Your point is well made.

I made my views known on our ruck situation during last years trade and draft periods and yes it's hard to lose a player like Roughead but we gambled on going into the season with just two genuine ruck options so an injury to one of them shouldn't be regarded as a great excuse. We lost Hamling and had question marks on Adams and we chose not to add some depth there so we should be confident that we can cover Morris for an extended period.
We revamped the forward line with Cloke and of course had Crameri coming back so once again Dickson's unavailability shouldn't be a huge issue given Stringer is probably sliding over from a 3rd key forward to more of a mid sized forward.
As positive as Cloke has been since he arrived at the club I think it unbalanced our forward set-up to a certain extent. It's a big challenge to get it working the way the coaches would want.

I think where we are struggling is more around our midfield depth so hopefully getting Wallis back soon and having the likes of Smith and Dunkley in the side will strengthen our options.

[GVGjr]

He said that last year, nothing to do with us. It was just something I remember he said during the year.



Thanks, but from what I can see when I looked it up he's got it wrong.

[GVGjr]

I for one will not be potting Bevo on two losses in the last 11 games. I was always worried about Freo as we haven't beaten them at Subi since 2009, and god only knows how many we have ever won at Subo over the years. Yes we should have beaten them last week.

It is a long season and we have plenty to look forward to.

Is anyone potting Bevo? I mean how could anyone pot him?

[boydogs]

I think where we are struggling is more around our midfield depth so hopefully getting Wallis back soon and having the likes of Smith and Dunkley in the side will strengthen our options.

Bevo has been overlooking grunt for class. Smith and Dunkley have been options but haven't been selected. Bevo has added Suckling & Murphy to the premiership side in place of those two because he wants better ball users in the team

That may change this week though

[Sedat]

Geelong 08 - Probably should have won on GF day, but they couldn't hit the side of a barn. Still - I wouldn't say they fell away.
Saints 09 - Had it been for a regular bounce of the ball, Milne kicks the goal and they win.
Hawthorn 12 - Again, I'm not sure they fell away. Lost in a tight contest v Sydney.
Sydney 14 - Capitulated on GF day but they punished Norf in the PF and were favourites for the GF.

I don't remember much about Collingwood in 11 - all I know is they got smashed by Geelong late in the season and fell away after HF v Geelong in the GF.
I used to be an AFL member so went to all of these PF's (except Sydney in 2014). All the heavily favoured teams I mentioned in my previous post laboured just to barely get over the line in their PF's and were frankly lucky to even make the GF. We dominated Geelong in the 2nd half of 2008 but threw away about 10 shots at goal in a row - Geelong had lost 1 game all season up to that point. We all know that the better team lost the 2009 PF, and all of St Kilda's H&A losses prior to that were in the final few games of the season. Collingwood in 2011 absolutely fell over the line in their PF against Hawthorn and only lost twice all season before the GF - as you said they were smashed by the Cats in R22. And Hawthorn in 2012 PF fell in against the Crows when heavy favourites. All of these teams had unbelievable seasons ranging from 18-4 to 21-1 but peaked before the business end, and lower ranked H&A teams who timed their run to September better ended up taking the chocolates in each of these seasons, much like we did in 2016.

We have gone 14-8 and 15-7 in our two seasons under Bevo and have only smashed teams out of the park maybe 2-3 times in that time. We aren't the finished article by a long way so I think the expectations that we will smash through the opposition in 2017 are probably a little off the mark IMO.

I do agree wholeheartedly that we need to sharpen up on what we've produced thus far, but equally I'm not expecting us to be an 18-4 or better team this year. The loss in Perth might look bad now but we don't know how good or bad Freo are going to be this year - on paper and without hacks like Dawson, Suban, Pearce and Griffin clogging up their team they look much better than the putrid 4-18 season last year and crap first 2 weeks this year.

Our gameplan has changed significantly this year compared to last, and the difference is stark. Our great strengths in 2016 are weaknesses this year (CP's, time in forward half, clearances) and yet we are smashing the competition for goals from D50 this year when this was a non-factor for us last year. We just need to get to mid season in the positive, and if we can then I am very excited by the possibilities of our gameplan and healthy personnel (Roughy, Moz and Dicko back) to push hard for another tilt at a successful finals campaign. But you and GVGjr are right that if we are playing catch-up in the 2nd half of the season from too far back we won't be going anywhere at the business end this season. For mine, give me 6-4 and no injuries at the mid-season bye and I'd sign off on it today - round 6-10 is a very tough stretch to say the least.

[comrade]

I used to be an AFL member so went to all of these PF's (except Sydney in 2014). All the heavily favoured teams I mentioned in my previous post laboured just to barely get over the line in their PF's and were frankly lucky to even make the GF. We dominated Geelong in the 2nd half of 2008 but threw away about 10 shots at goal in a row - Geelong had lost 1 game all season up to that point. We all know that the better team lost the 2009 PF, and all of St Kilda's H&A losses prior to that were in the final few games of the season. Collingwood in 2011 absolutely fell over the line in their PF against Hawthorn and only lost twice all season before the GF - as you said they were smashed by the Cats in R22. And Hawthorn in 2012 PF fell in against the Crows when heavy favourites. All of these teams had unbelievable seasons ranging from 18-4 to 21-1 but peaked before the business end, and lower ranked H&A teams who timed their run to September better ended up taking the chocolates in each of these seasons, much like we did in 2016.

We have gone 14-8 and 15-7 in our two seasons under Bevo and have only smashed teams out of the park maybe 2-3 times in that time. We aren't the finished article by a long way so I think the expectations that we will smash through the opposition in 2017 are probably a little off the mark IMO.

I do agree wholeheartedly that we need to sharpen up on what we've produced thus far, but equally I'm not expecting us to be an 18-4 or better team this year. The loss in Perth might look bad now but we don't know how good or bad Freo are going to be this year - on paper and without hacks like Dawson, Suban, Pearce and Griffin clogging up their team they look much better than the putrid 4-18 season last year and crap first 2 weeks this year.

Our gameplan has changed significantly this year compared to last, and the difference is stark. Our great strengths in 2016 are weaknesses this year (CP's, time in forward half, clearances) and yet we are smashing the competition for goals from D50 this year when this was a non-factor for us last year. We just need to get to mid season in the positive, and if we can then I am very excited by the possibilities of our gameplan and healthy personnel (Roughy, Moz and Dicko back) to push hard for another tilt at a successful finals campaign. But you and GVGjr are right that if we are playing catch-up in the 2nd half of the season from too far back we won't be going anywhere at the business end this season. For mine, give me 6-4 and no injuries at the mid-season bye and I'd sign off on it today - round 6-10 is a very tough stretch to say the least.

Like usual, Sedat nails it.

[bornadog]

Thanks, but from what I can see when I looked it up he's got it wrong.

I never checked, but looking at it now, he must have thought about the first 8 games in 2015, when they were 4/4.

[Remi Moses]

Like usual, Sedat nails it.

Sure did . Some of those sides given as examples were clearly the best sides .
07 Geelong side took until round 5 but were the best side by a mile .
11 pies team got sidetracked by the Malthouse / Buckley debacle .
The 08 hawks team copped a few costly injuries and a few retirements , but had a hangover . Let's be honest Geelong kicked themselves out of it . I can accept robust discussion, but the language used is a bit hysterical

[Mofra]

Yep - it is comical to think we are 'hiding' our real gameplan.

Some of the responses in this thread seem over protective; haven't seen anyone crucify Bevo or the club, only read valid points which make for good discussion.
Last year we changed our gameplan during the year dependant on the personnel we had available - I think we're doing the same this year but it simply isn't working for a variety of factors.

We won game 1 but were smashed in the middle - won game two in a good display against a side that lost their ruck/forward early - and lost game three after again giving up a 4 goal head start.

Our strength last year was our midfield and this year it seems to be our weakness. Third man up rule hurts us, but surely not this much.

[Remi Moses]

I never checked, but looking at it now, he must have thought about the first 8 games in 2015, when they were 4/4.

I think hawthorn were 5 and 5 in 2015. We were the best side when it mattered last year , but you couldn't say we were the best side for the entire year . We've got some work to do , no doubt .

[Bulldog Joe]

I am concerned on our centre clearance work, but if we improve on that we should be fine.

I fully expected the Fremantle loss, as that seems to fit with Bevo not burning players out.

We do have a six day break to cope with this week and I feel he probably didn't run them through the middle as much as he would when we are fully wound up.

North is very much a danger game, but I expect us to improve from there on.

We have actually had the shortest pre-season any team has ever had, with the October finish and an earlier March start.

Bevo is doing a few things differently and the early games are about fine tuning. The shorter pre-season would have limited some of that experimentation.

I'm with Sedat on the fact that staying in the W/L positive is all we require through to the bye.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I used to be an AFL member so went to all of these PF's (except Sydney in 2014). All the heavily favoured teams I mentioned in my previous post laboured just to barely get over the line in their PF's and were frankly lucky to even make the GF. We dominated Geelong in the 2nd half of 2008 but threw away about 10 shots at goal in a row - Geelong had lost 1 game all season up to that point. We all know that the better team lost the 2009 PF, and all of St Kilda's H&A losses prior to that were in the final few games of the season. Collingwood in 2011 absolutely fell over the line in their PF against Hawthorn and only lost twice all season before the GF - as you said they were smashed by the Cats in R22. And Hawthorn in 2012 PF fell in against the Crows when heavy favourites. All of these teams had unbelievable seasons ranging from 18-4 to 21-1 but peaked before the business end, and lower ranked H&A teams who timed their run to September better ended up taking the chocolates in each of these seasons, much like we did in 2016.

Prelim Finals are hard to get a read on - often they are tight, often they are blow outs. I'm not sure there's any consistent correlation between the best sides falling over the line and getting done the next week.

Geelong hobbled over the line v Collingwood in 2007 and then beat Port in the GF by 120. Conversely, Sydney beat Geelong by 10 goals last year and then lost the GF.

Some of the sides that pushed Collingwood (2010 - Hawthorn) and Hawthorn (2012 - Adelaide) were not average sides, either. Adelaide finished 2nd in 2012.

IMO if you make it to the Grand Final, you've timed your run well. Whether you win it or not from there is another thing, but I don't believe you can badly fall away in a season yet make a GF. They're bloody tough to make as we know!


I do agree wholeheartedly that we need to sharpen up on what we've produced thus far, but equally I'm not expecting us to be an 18-4 or better team this year. The loss in Perth might look bad now but we don't know how good or bad Freo are going to be this year - on paper and without hacks like Dawson, Suban, Pearce and Griffin clogging up their team they look much better than the putrid 4-18 season last year and crap first 2 weeks this year.

Agreed - it shouldn't have taken Ross that long to play some of the talented young kids (ie. Crozier) over list cloggers such as Suban.


Our gameplan has changed significantly this year compared to last, and the difference is stark. Our great strengths in 2016 are weaknesses this year (CP's, time in forward half, clearances) and yet we are smashing the competition for goals from D50 this year when this was a non-factor for us last year. We just need to get to mid season in the positive, and if we can then I am very excited by the possibilities of our gameplan and healthy personnel (Roughy, Moz and Dicko back) to push hard for another tilt at a successful finals campaign. But you and GVGjr are right that if we are playing catch-up in the 2nd half of the season from too far back we won't be going anywhere at the business end this season. For mine, give me 6-4 and no injuries at the mid-season bye and I'd sign off on it today - round 6-10 is a very tough stretch to say the least.

I'm confident we'll be in the positive and launch from there, too.

I don't think we can continue to lose key stats convincingly (CP, Clearances, Time in FWD Half) and expect to succeed. Perhaps it is a genuine shift of game plans, which I will watch with interest. A byproduct of losing those key stats is that we are going to blow the charts away with goals from D50 - but if that's how we're relying on beating GWS and Adelaide, we're in huge trouble. I've read many lauding Bevo for this new game plan, but I sincerely doubt it's his tactic to lose CP and Clearances, so the progression in this area will be interesting as the season unfolds.

[jeemak]

I'm wary of statistical trends being drawn from a three week sample, which many in the media are doing and using to form the narrative of a season that is still in its infancy.

On the weekend we won both clearances and contested possessions - albeit not by much - as we did the week before, once again, not by much. Because we got smashed in those areas by a clearly better prepared (but fortunately poorly skilled) opponent in round one the numbers are skewed.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Your point is well made.

I made my views known on our ruck situation during last years trade and draft periods and yes it's hard to lose a player like Roughead but we gambled on going into the season with just two genuine ruck options so an injury to one of them shouldn't be regarded as a great excuse. We lost Hamling and had question marks on Adams and we chose not to add some depth there so we should be confident that we can cover Morris for an extended period.
We revamped the forward line with Cloke and of course had Crameri coming back so once again Dickson's unavailability shouldn't be a huge issue given Stringer is probably sliding over from a 3rd key forward to more of a mid sized forward.
As positive as Cloke has been since he arrived at the club I think it unbalanced our forward set-up to a certain extent. It's a big challenge to get it working the way the coaches would want.

I think where we are struggling is more around our midfield depth so hopefully getting Wallis back soon and having the likes of Smith and Dunkley in the side will strengthen our options.

Ultimately in today's football the game is won in the midfield as you have indicated. The depth of Sandilands, Fyfe, Neale, Mundy and the Hill brothers was more effective against our somewhat undermanned midfield.

[Mofra]

On the weekend we won both clearances and contested possessions - albeit not by much - as we did the week before, once again, not by much. Because we got smashed in those areas by a clearly better prepared (but fortunately poorly skilled) opponent in round one the numbers are skewed.
True in a sense - but we hardly lost those measures at all last year, let alone 3 games in a row at any point.
The eyeball test indicates we have a fair bit to work on

[jeemak]

True in a sense - but we hardly lost those measures at all last year, let alone 3 games in a row at any point.
The eyeball test indicates we have a fair bit to work on

We've won them in two of three games.

[comrade]

The past 3 years, each premiership team lost multiple games in the first month & a half (we were 4-2, Hawks were 3-3 in 2015 & Sydney were 1-3 in 2014).

[Mantis]

The past 3 years, each premiership team lost multiple games in the first month & a half (we were 4-2, Hawks were 3-3 in 2015 & Sydney were 1-3 in 2014).

The Hawks won the flag in 2014.

[comrade]

The Hawks won the flag in 2014.

Epic brain fade! They won the minor premiership after a slow start so my point kind of stands ;)