Match Committee - Round 5, 2017 vs Brisbane Lions

[Eastdog]

If you were on the Bulldogs match committee what changes would you make for our round 5, 2017 match against Brisbane Lions at Etihad?

As always a brief explanation for your changes would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[bulldogtragic]

Crameri, Wallis, Dicko, Roughy & Morris all not back.

Question marks on Tom Boyd & Cloke. I'm not sold Matty Boyd is doing enough. Outs will depend on injuries.

Lipinski kicked 4 goals, so I'd like to reward that.

[always right]

Hopefully Crameri is fine to come in for Cloke. Daniel in for Moyd who is struggling.

[1eyedog]

Bailey Williams in
M Boyd out

How's English going? I'd bring him in as a roving CHF if Cloke is sore. He's in hospital so doesn't look good.

[G-Mo77]

English still a ways off IMO. Liked whay he did today but he is just so lite. We may not have a choice though.

[Hotdog60]

If the temptation to bring English in for Cloke the one thing in his favour is the Brisbane don't have any monster rucks.

[Sedat]

English still a ways off IMO. Liked whay he did today but he is just so lite. We may not have a choice though.
Looks that way. He is probably more developed than any of our other young talls in the VFL, such is our current crisis in tall stocks.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Injuries are really catching up with us already. Hard to know who we can bring in for T. Boyd and Cloke.

M. Boyd is close but with no Morris and an out of form Wood, we probably need to persist.

[Doc26]

Bailey Williams in
M Boyd out


Good option. In what is likely Matty's final year, time to manage his season load and transition in his successor. Biggs of course would be the other option but time to give Bailey a crack against a team likely to be in the bottom half.

[1eyedog]

I wouldn't ruck English just play him forward. We need to rotate a few players through the side to find the right balance or rough gems we can polish. Williams and English would be my ins for M. Boyd and Cloke. T. Boyd looks ok.

[GVGjr]

Looks that way. He is probably more developed than any of our other young talls in the VFL, such is our current crisis in tall stocks.

We have gambled on not covering of players we lost at the season's end and by round 4 after losing just 3 talls we are really being tested.

[hujsh]

We have gambled on not covering of players we lost at the season's end and by round 4 after losing just 3 talls we are really being tested.

Well we covered Redpath with Cloke and the only other one we really lost is Minson. I'd rather play short forward than play Minson there.

There was also Hamling but we're ok for talls down back.

Unless I'm forgetting someone.

[Rocco Jones]

I'm a believe in playing your best players and not giving a game to someone just because you NEED a tall but having both Cloke and Tom Boyd might stretch that. We just do not have a tall who is worth to play next week. Happy to see Lipsinki play as i feel we could do with a natural goal scorer (relying on reports here) and Caleb apparently played well.

Just thinking without Cloke and Tom Boyd...
Stringer and Zaine as key forwards? Zaine, Jong and Bonts offering relief in ruck? Yikes...

I just feel English will be lost at the level but maybe we just have to.

[Sedat]

I'm a believe in playing your best players and not giving a game to someone just because you NEED a tall but having both Cloke and Tom Boyd might stretch that. We just do not have a tall who is worth to play next week. Happy to see Lipsinki play as i feel we could do with a natural goal scorer (relying on reports here) and Caleb apparently played well.

Just thinking without Cloke and Tom Boyd...
Stringer and Zaine as key forwards? Zaine, Jong and Bonts offering relief in ruck? Yikes...

I just feel English will be lost at the level but maybe we just have to.
As the person who coined the phrase "a shit tall is still shit", I agree with you ;). But I do think English can impact in other parts of the ground, and his strong football IQ mitigates his slender frame - Campbell still does the vast amount of the ruck work for mine, but if English can chop out 5 mins a qtr it will really help, otherwise we burn out Campbell and then we'll really need to bring Minno back. Dunks, Bont and Jongy will also be doing plenty of secondary ruck work around the ground in the next week or two while we wait for the cavalry to arrive.

[always right]

I'm a believe in playing your best players and not giving a game to someone just because you NEED a tall but having both Cloke and Tom Boyd might stretch that. We just do not have a tall who is worth to play next week. Happy to see Lipsinki play as i feel we could do with a natural goal scorer (relying on reports here) and Caleb apparently played well.

Just thinking without Cloke and Tom Boyd...
Stringer and Zaine as key forwards? Zaine, Jong and Bonts offering relief in ruck? Yikes...

I just feel English will be lost at the level but maybe we just have to.
You wanted Campbell dropped this week. How do you feel now? He was critical in our win today.

[Rocco Jones]

You wanted Campbell dropped this week. How do you feel now? He was critical in our win today.

I still don't rate him highly overall but his workrate was epic in the second half and he is a valuable back up with all our outs.

[Rocco Jones]

My issue with English is doubts how if he is physically up to getting through a game at AFL level.

[GVGjr]

My issue with English is doubts how if he is physically up to getting through a game at AFL level.

It's a good reason for concern. Talented player no doubt but like a few of the boys we drafted last year he's very skinny and ideally he needs a development season.

[G-Mo77]

It's a good reason for concern. Talented player no doubt but like a few of the boys we drafted last year he's very skinny and ideally he needs a development season.

I'm a no on English as well, talented but got bullied today.


Will Minson next week. The dope in WA was onto something.

[G-Mo77]

Daniel was really good today, Biggs started slow but did enough. Both will be in the mix. Lipinski an outside chance.

[GVGjr]

Daniel was really good today, Biggs started slow but did enough. Both will be in the mix. Lipinski an outside chance.

I'd probably add Webb, Williams and Honeychurch into the mix as well.

A lot depends on Tom Boyd's availability but we need to add a bit more run to the side.

[Remi Moses]

Of the players just drafted Lipinski looks the first to come in .
Tim looks like he may break if he plays at the higher level .

[Rocco Jones]

Wacky idea, do we go with Bont playing extra minutes as a key-forward?

[G-Mo77]

I'd probably add Webb, Williams and Honeychurch into the mix as well.

A lot depends on Tom Boyd's availability but we need to add a bit more run to the side.

I thought Webb faded a bit. I wasn't that big of a wrap of Williams' game, Honey good in stages. I think all 3 will get some time but will need to back it up again That being said I reckon Daniel and Biggs may have to do well again before the nod. Pity Crameri got injured again.

[Rocco Jones]

Lipsinki would be my first in to help out forward line.

[lemmon]

Wacky idea, do we go with Bont playing extra minutes as a key-forward?

I reckon he has been already this year. I've confused him for Cloke a few times leading out from full forward such has been the size he's added. North clearly respected it too, Robbie Tarrant spent a lot of minutes as his direct matchup.

[Hotdog60]

With the inclusion of Cloke are we being a little bit lazy up the field and producing too many long balls into the forward line?
Even Jake had 2 or 3 flyers at the high one coming in.
I think the Cloke injury may be helpful in the mids lowering the eyes a bit more.

[Sedat]

Wacky idea, do we go with Bont playing extra minutes as a key-forward?

We did a bit yesterday. Would have been nice for Bont to get the same protection as KPP's are getting this year in the marking contest - he was manhandled 2-3 times by Tarrant in the 2nd half.

[lemmon]

With the inclusion of Cloke are we being a little bit lazy up the field and producing too many long balls into the forward line?
Even Jake had 2 or 3 flyers at the high one coming in.
I think the Cloke injury may be helpful in the mids lowering the eyes a bit more.

It's the same kind of ball movement we had in the regular season last year. Massive inside 50 numbers for little reward

[comrade]

Matty Boyd is nearing the cliff. Probably give him one more week but if Bailey Williams has another strong VFL outing, I'd be giving him an opportunity in Boyd's role.

[G-Mo77]

It's the same kind of ball movement we had in the regular season last year. Massive inside 50 numbers for little reward

Score by brute force, get it in constantly and scrap a goal. I really think it's Norf's defence like them or not they have got a good backline. It was a similar affair early last season fortunately this year the 2nd half opened up. Last season it was a snore fest for 4 quarters.

[SquirrelGrip]

Matty Boyd is nearing the cliff. Probably give him one more week but if Bailey Williams has another strong VFL outing, I'd be giving him an opportunity in Boyd's role.

For the sake of a week, I'd love to see Matt Boyd give his all for Murph's 300th. After that, he's on his own.

On the same basis, would love to see a first gamer run out in this historic match - Lipinski or English depending on needs.

The Bulldogs remain the true romantics of the AFL....

[Go_Dogs]

Out:-
Cloke

In:-
Daniel

Cloke out injured, and bringing in Daniel as I feel we need more run and ball use in the forward half. I haven't read the VFL reports in detail yet, but if Daniel isn't quite ready then I'd like to see us bring in Webb.

[Happy Days]

Need to better consult the VFL thread, but I wouldn't be bringing in English for this game. Martin would eat him alive.

[Sedat]

Need to better consult the VFL thread, but I wouldn't be bringing in English for this game. Martin would eat him alive.
He will eat Campbell alive in the 2nd half next week if Campbell doesn't get any relief in the ruck. If Boydy and Cloke don't get up, I can't see any option other than to bring English in next week.

[Happy Days]

He will eat Campbell alive in the 2nd half next week if Campbell doesn't get any relief in the ruck. If Boydy and Cloke don't get up, I can't see any option other than to bring English in next week.

It's pretty bleak, and we really should have recruited a mature ager on the rookie list. But having seen English in person yesterday walking into the ground, he is just too slight to compete, let alone not get hurt. I don't think there's merit in picking him as he won't win anything, ya know? I'd rather go in Geelong style and not even contest to get the extra number at the stoppage; I think Campbell gets murked by Martin anyway, he's been far and away the best ruck in the game this year.

Hypothetically, if the 3rd man up rule gets canned on Tuesday, could we go in with just Campbell? (I think yes).

[Sedat]

It's pretty bleak, and we really should have recruited a mature ager on the rookie list. But having seen English in person yesterday walking into the ground, he is just too slight to compete, let alone not get hurt. I don't think there's merit in picking him as he won't win anything, ya know? I'd rather go in Geelong style and not even contest to get the extra number at the stoppage; I think Campbell gets murked by Martin anyway, he's been far and away the best ruck in the game this year.

Hypothetically, if the 3rd man up rule gets canned on Tuesday, could we go in with just Campbell? (I think yes).
Is English any skinnier than the likes of Hipwood and Schache? He's probably the same age as them as well, turning 19 later this year.

If English was purely a developing tap ruckman with no footy smarts around the ground, I would agree 100%. But I think he can provide something around the ground and also help out Campbell by chopping him out 5 mins a qtr, which frankly he'll need next week.

If Boyd is fit to play, no English.

[Rocco Jones]

For me it's simple, if Tom Boyd and Cloke are both out AND we think English can physically get through an AFL game, he is in.

My doubts are over if he can stand up to the physicality in ruck combined with the running he was to do as he'd be more a flanker than KP.

[Rocco Jones]

Posters are questioning our list management in regards to the ruck. I am not saying it's been perfect but I do not think it's as simple as drafting a mature ruck as a rookie pick.

If we drafted another 1st ruck type, then we would have issues playing them alongside Campbell. Campbell can only play alongside a mobile 2nd ruck type, which is what we are potentially missing next week.

In terms of 2nd ruck/forward support, we recruited/drafted Cloke, English and hyphen guy.

We lost Redpath last year. Roughy, Cloke and Tom Boyd all potentially out next week. That's 4 2nd ruck options out. Having 4 guys in one role injured would test the most perfect list management. English has also just come back from injury. He will keep becoming a more viable option as a 2nd ruck.

[Sedat]

Posters are questioning our list management in regards to the ruck. I am not saying it's been perfect but I do not think it's as simple as drafting a mature ruck as a rookie pick.

If we drafted another 1st ruck type, then we would have issues playing them alongside Campbell. Campbell can only play alongside a mobile 2nd ruck type, which is what we are potentially missing next week.

In terms of 2nd ruck/forward support, we recruited/drafted Cloke, English and hyphen guy.

We lost Redpath last year. Roughy, Cloke and Tom Boyd all potentially out next week. That's 4 2nd ruck options out. Having 4 guys in one role injured would test the most perfect list management. English has also just come back from injury. He will keep becoming a more viable option as a 2nd ruck.
Agreed. It's not as though we haven't addressed the issue previously - we selected the ideal (on paper) prototype developing ruckman as a rookie pick in Goetz last year.

We are just shit out of luck ATM with injuries to one specific size demographic on our list.

[always right]

I would consider English only if Cloke is injured. Play him at centre half forward and only take stints in the ruck around the ground......not at centre bounces.

[Rocco Jones]

I would consider English only if Cloke is injured. Play him at centre half forward and only take stints in the ruck around the ground......not at centre bounces.

English IMO is more ready to ruck than play as a KP forward. At least he has the ability to win taps, as a key forward he will get rang dolled and struggle to compete. Also, it is hard to manufacture situations where Campbell is ALWAYS on during centre bounces. He has to take breaks.

If English plays, he rucks whenever Campbell is tired + plays as a flanker type around the ground. At most he is a medium forward in practice atm.

[GVGjr]

Is English any skinnier than the likes of Hipwood and Schache? He's probably the same age as them as well, turning 19 later this year.

If English was purely a developing tap ruckman with no footy smarts around the ground, I would agree 100%. But I think he can provide something around the ground and also help out Campbell by chopping him out 5 mins a qtr, which frankly he'll need next week.

If Boyd is fit to play, no English.

English turns 20 this year and is 4 months older than Kieran Collins. At 87kg he's 5 kg lighter than Hipwood and 9kg lighter than Schache and yes they are all about the same age. The advantage for Lions boys are that they have been in the system 12 months longer. Everyone overlooked English 2 years back who is a late developer both in a footy and physical sense.

[GVGjr]

Posters are questioning our list management in regards to the ruck. I am not saying it's been perfect but I do not think it's as simple as drafting a mature ruck as a rookie pick.



I have to disagree with you on that. We've know for a while that we needed players capable of playing in dual roles so that meant in the last few years we should have been trying to recruit or identify a player or two capable of being a KPP and doing some work in the ruck. Having just Tom Boyd was not enough.
They didn't need to be great ruckman just capable of taking a decent stint in there especially when you use an early draft selection to draft a long term ruck prospect.



If we drafted another 1st ruck type, then we would have issues playing them alongside Campbell. Campbell can only play alongside a mobile 2nd ruck type, which is what we are potentially missing next week.

In terms of 2nd ruck/forward support, we recruited/drafted Cloke, English and hyphen guy.



Cloke was never drafted as a back up ruckman but will get forced into the role from time. At his age he does not possess the athleticism required and he can't jump into the contests.
English and Mullenger-McHugh need time to develop physically.
Cloke was never guaranteed games and getting someone more suited to balance the list in case of injuries would have just made for healthy competition.
Not every player on the list need to be capable of playing 22 senior games.



We lost Redpath last year. Roughy, Cloke and Tom Boyd all potentially out next week. That's 4 2nd ruck options out. Having 4 guys in one role injured would test the most perfect list management. English has also just come back from injury. He will keep becoming a more viable option as a 2nd ruck.

We knew Redpath was going to be a late arrival and there have always been question marks on his shoulder when he is in the ruck. Cloke wasn't in the ruck discussions and Boyd had just a few good games in the ruck and should have always been considered a forward first ruckman second.
Losing Minson we needed to add some depth or insurance and chose not to.
We rolled the dice and have some challenges now.

[boydogs]

If the temptation to bring English in for Cloke the one thing in his favour is the Brisbane don't have any monster rucks.

Stefan Martin bullied English in the JLT

Campbell was excellent in being able to play as many minutes in the ruck as he did, we need him to do that again

Cordy to CHF & 2nd ruck

[Hotdog60]

Reports coming in Campbell in doubt with a suss ankle and Cloke confirmed ribs 4 - 6 weeks.
English may get his chance just because there is no one else.

[GVGjr]

Reports coming in Campbell in doubt with a suss ankle and Cloke confirmed ribs 4 - 6 weeks.
English may get his chance just because there is no one else.

Could be good luck for him. He's a big chance to play now. Just reinforces that we managed the list poorly as we should have at least another option as well.

[soupman]

Just reinforces that we managed the list poorly as we should have at least another option as well.

I'm not disputing the fact that it isn't the ideal scenario but I disagree with this line.

How many ruckman do we need on the list, and at what point does the quality drop off to much to make it viable? We have 4 players capable of playing that spot and another two capable of helping out. Unfortunately only one of them is definitely not injured atm. How exactly is our list management meant to plan for that. I doubt many, if any other clubs are carrying more ruck capable players than that.

Besides where do we find this supposed AFL quality and ready 5th ruck that is happy playing never. There's been countless threads on here lamenting the wastage of the last lost spots on hacks or past it players that are denying the next Dahlhaus an opportunity (guys like Barlow, Lower, Prudden this year, Hahn's last year) so why add another name to that list?

This is an unfortunate scenario but considering Bevo has already shown he is happy to find alternative ways to use rucks (which may involve someone like Jong) then I'd argue our list management is fine.

[Remi Moses]

How many rucks do we need ?

[Remi Moses]

Could be good luck for him. He's a big chance to play now. Just reinforces that we managed the list poorly as we should have at least another option as well.

Come on

[Remi Moses]

Have two ruckman and a developing third . How many do other clubs have ?

[GVGjr]

I'm not disputing the fact that it isn't the ideal scenario but I disagree with this line.

How many ruckman do we need on the list, and at what point does the quality drop off to much to make it viable? We have 4 players capable of playing that spot and another two capable of helping out. Unfortunately only one of them is definitely not injured atm. How exactly is our list management meant to plan for that. I doubt many, if any other clubs are carrying more ruck capable players than that.



My view is 3 ready to do ruckman and at least 2 guys (like Tom Boyd) capable of taking a decent turn in the ruck. We should then have a developing type on the rookie list. In this case we have Tim English

The planning part is very easy.




Besides where do we find this supposed AFL quality and ready 5th ruck that is happy playing never. There's been countless threads on here lamenting the wastage of the last lost spots on hacks or past it players that are denying the next Dahlhaus an opportunity (guys like Barlow, Lower, Prudden this year, Hahn's last year) so why add another name to that list?

This is an unfortunate scenario but considering Bevo has already shown he is happy to find alternative ways to use rucks (which may involve someone like Jong) then I'd argue our list management is fine.

Isn't that where the list management and identification part comes into it? We found a whole swag of talented tall but skinny kids during the draft so would it really have upset the balance to add a more mature type capable of providing some insurance this year at the trade table or one of the drafts while English develops?

I've asked the question before but has Bevo really found other options for the ruck? You mentioned Jong and yet in four games he hasn't had one hit out.

[chef]

Im of the belief Boyd is a ruck (not great at taps but good around the ground and up forward if needed). So really him, Roughie, Cambo and English is enough. Unfortunately you cant plan for injuries.

Most other clubs have the same number.

[GVGjr]

Im of the belief Boyd is a ruck (not great at taps but good around the ground and up forward if needed). So really him, Roughie, Cambo and English is enough. Unfortunately you cant plan for injuries.

Most other clubs have the same number.

Boyd isn't a full time ruckman and he won't develop as the forward we traded for and paid a high price for if we play him as a ruckman too much. He's also struggled with injuries in particular his shoulders.

Until last year Roughead did not have a history of durability and Campbell has never on a regular basis displayed the type of form and durability that he could get through a season.

Based on those points alone it would be very easy to say you can plan for injuries.
On top of that adding the talented English into the mix and knowing he needs at least one development year should have been another warning light.

I don't think it would have compromised the list to have another slightly more mature player capable of taking a turn in the ruck providing they can play in other positions.

[bulldogtragic]

At the risk of jumping in, I think we took a gamble that if injuries hit we could try to cover them as not to load too much on talls that Bevo wouldn't have at the top of his wish list. It may still pay off, it may not. But we adapt and roll with the punches.

[GVGjr]

At the risk of jumping in, I think we took a gamble that if injuries hit we could try to cover them as not to load too much on talls that Bevo wouldn't have at the top of his wish list. It may still pay off, it may not. But we adapt and roll with the punches.

I agree we gambled but given we won the flag we could have easily topped up on the gaps given the players that were departing.

If talls aren't really on Bevo's wish list then we drafted very strangely because we got a number of tallish developing types at the National Draft and then added Mullenger-McHugh and Tristian Tweedie.

I'm wondering if we really needed to gamble when we could have easily added a couple of depth players?

This week I'm more worried about curbing the Lions run.

[bulldogtragic]

I agree we gambled but given we won the flag we could have easily topped up on the gaps given the players that were departing.

If talls aren't really on Bevo's wish list then we drafted very strangely because we got a number of tallish developing types at the National Draft and then added Mullenger-McHugh and Tristian Tweedie.

I'm wondering if we really needed to gamble when we could have easily added a couple of depth players?

This week I'm more worried about curbing the Lions run.

By talls Bevo doesn't rate, I mean one dimensional depth rucks. Clearly we all rate KPPs, Bevo and Dal included. For me, the last decision I would've made was the last rookie spot. We committed it to Prudden. I think I was on record as suggesting a KPD or ruck with this spot. For culture or otherwise they went with Prudden, probably thinking third man up wasn't going to be banned.

Boyd will play, Campbell may play, English is available and Roughy will miss 5-6 more weeks. I'm not fearing that the list management will cause some huge problem.

[Sedat]

Boyd isn't a full time ruckman and he won't develop as the forward we traded for and paid a high price for if we play him as a ruckman too much. He's also struggled with injuries in particular his shoulders.
Ottens was a high price recruit for Geelong as a forward but became an excellent and valuable ruck/forward. I don't mind Boydy developing into a similar type of player at all - the work we put into him on his ruck craft paid off in spades at our most urgent time of need in the PF.

[hujsh]

I guess the choice was Prudden or a mature state league backup on the rookie list (no idea who or if there's even anyone worth picking though)

So it's the emotion and loyalty vs a more pragmatic backup.

At the time I'd have probably gone with a mature type since we only really have 2 rucks on the list with Boyd as the option to break out in case of emergency and English developing.

But that the club would give Prudden a chance instead doesn't surprise me and may ultimately prove more important in the long run regardless of if Prudden ever plays another AFL game.

[GVGjr]

Ottens was a high price recruit for Geelong as a forward but became an excellent and valuable ruck/forward. I don't mind Boydy developing into a similar type of player at all - the work we put into him on his ruck craft paid off in spades at our most urgent time of need in the PF.

I'd certainly prefer for him to be our 2nd ruckman even occasionally taking on the full ruck position but he needs to be the forward first.

Boyd has a way to go to get to the standard of Ottens who was already an established durable player on the rise when he arrived at Geelong.
He played 129 games in 7 seasons for Richmond kicking 152 goals. He was a key forward who did some ruck work. At the Cats he was more of a ruckman playing 106 games for 109 goals but was still very productive up forward.

I found this comment by Ottens in 2010 which was later in his career and I think it's worth mentioning

"Geelong big man Brad Ottens says a lack of confidence as a key forward means his career will likely be played out in the ruck.

"The ruck is my spot with a little time up forward," Ottens said.

"That is my go. I didn't have the confidence as a key forward. I played a bit up there with Richmond and had some success, but I never got consistent results up there."

If we are to use the Ottens comparison lets make sure we have tried to make a forward out of Boyd first before making the call he has to be a #1 ruckman not just because its the most convenient given our ruck depth. This is his 4th season in the AFL and he has had his share of injuries and to me given the bigger blokes need time it's too early to give up on him being a the main key forward target.

Is Tom Hawkins a better comparison?

Geelong have been very innovative with their ruck position in recent years and have resisted the temptation to give up on Tom Hawkins as a key forward and make him a full time ruckman. It took Hawkins about 5 seasons before he started to make it as a forward.
This is one of the reasons why I think our Tom needs a bit more support and patience.

[boydogs]

Is Mullenger-McHugh any closer to ready than English?

[josie]

I thought Webb looked good and most deserving of the chance to be upgraded. Would love Lipinski to be given opportunity too, and it would not surprise me if Bevo gives him a go against the Lions. I think English will be great however would hate to see his skinny frame being beaten up, not fair on the kid, so unless TBoyd and Campbell are out I think he will not be selected. I also think time to give M Boyd a one or two week rest.

[GVGjr]

Is Mullenger-McHugh any closer to ready than English?

I don't think so. He's a skinny type as well. English might be better placed at the moment.

[1eyedog]

Is Mullenger-McHugh any closer to ready than English?

It has to be Campbell and Boydy with a makeshift 2016 forward line.

[merantau]

I am backing Matthew Boyd. He's not in need of a rest. He will pull his weight and play his role.

[Twodogs]

If there was a mid season draft now we'd take a ruckman. Provided there was one ready to step up and play.

[Bulldog4life]

English turns 20 this year and is 4 months older than Kieran Collins. At 87kg he's 5 kg lighter than Hipwood and 9kg lighter than Schache and yes they are all about the same age. The advantage for Lions boys are that they have been in the system 12 months longer. Everyone overlooked English 2 years back who is a late developer both in a footy and physical sense.

English was 87 kg when drafted. I read before the season started that he was 92 kilos and eating like a horse.

[1eyedog]

English for Cloke and play him CHF. No rucking.Never been a better time against an inexperienced Lions outfit. Let's see what he's got.

[bornadog]

If both Campbell and TBoyd are fit to play, I would like to see Campbell play 70% in the ruck and TBoyd spend the majority of time at FF. After the North match, Campbell has gained some confidence, and we need to build on that. However, he really needs to take some grabs around the ground.

Out: Cloke

In: Webb

I would like to see Crameri play, but fear he is also injured.

[GVGjr]

English was 87 kg when drafted. I read before the season started that he was 92 kilos and eating like a horse.

I guess you apply the same to Hipwood but when I compare the builds of each player English is behind them maybe because he's only had one preseason.

[GVGjr]

If both Campbell and TBoyd are fit to play, I would like to see Campbell play 70% in the ruck and TBoyd spend the majority of time at FF. After the North match, Campbell has gained some confidence, and we need to build on that. However, he really needs to take some grabs around the ground.

Out: Cloke

In: Webb

I would like to see Crameri play, but fear he is also injured.

I'm hearing Crameri is out for a few weeks. With Brisbanes run I'd also strongly consider bringing Biggs back in but we have too many half back types already.

[bornadog]

I'm hearing Crameri is out for a few weeks. With Brisbanes run I'd also strongly consider bringing Biggs back in but we have too many half back types already.

I would like to see another mid come in. Webb seems to be the one in good form.

[GVGjr]

I would like to see another mid come in. Webb seems to be the one in good form.

I'm not knocking the inclusion of Webb as I mentioned I'd also consider Biggs.
Honeychurch might be worth considering as well but I think Lipinski will be selected.

I'd be tempted to play Adams forward

[Webby]

I really rate English. Think he'll make it. However he was bouncing off Box Hill's ruckman like a pinball on Friday. He needs a season or two of filling out before he's ready. Lipinsky looked good - as did Webb.

It's terrible luck that Cloke's specifically cover for Redpath - yet now they'll both overlap for availability and unavailability. We'll be undermanned in the coming weeks.

[Go_Dogs]

What do others think about playing English as a key defender on Hipwood and swinging Cordy forward/second ruck?

[Rocco Jones]

If we are to play English, he needs to offer some ruck relief. Otherwisei would just play a mature body.

[GVGjr]

What do others think about playing English as a key defender on Hipwood and swinging Cordy forward/second ruck?


I'm not sure how that would go but I was wondering if it should be Cordy on Hipwood and potentially moving Adams forward
I'm assuming you think either Boyd or Campbell won't be available?

[1eyedog]

I think English can play without having to ruck. When Boyd and Campbell play Cloke doesn't ruck. We need forward targets with Cloke, Dickson and Crameri all out. That said it is unlikely to happen but I don't mind trialing it.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm not sure how that would go but I was wondering if it should be Cordy on Hipwood and potentially moving Adams forward
I'm assuming you think either Boyd or Campbell won't be available?

Yes, sorry - this is based on one of Boyd or Campbell not being available.

For some reason, when I see English play I think he could be good in the backline. His ability at ground level, his speed, his kicking and his aerial ability seem like good skills to have down back.

I haven't seen much of Adams forward - can he play as a lead up player?

[boydogs]

Delete

[boydogs]

What do others think about playing English as a key defender on Hipwood and swinging Cordy forward/second ruck?

Roberts & Adams down back is fine

Cordy forward/ruck I agree with if Boyd is out

English can develop his ruck craft at VFL level

[GVGjr]

Roberts & Adams down back is fine

Cordy forward/ruck I agree with if Boyd is out

English can develop his ruck craft at VFL level

I agree that Roberts and Adams are doing a good job in the back line but I'm not as convinced that Cordy is playing well enough at the moment. Perhaps Adams playing forward makes sense.

If Boyd and Campbell are good to go then I'd look at adding another runner at the expense of Cordy which isn't ideal but we will just have to get Wood to play tall.

Like you, I'd prefer to see Tim English play at the VFL for a while yet

[Rocco Jones]

Reading poster/posters saying to try English as a forward target. I think Josh Dunkley and Clay Smith would seriously be more able to play a KP forward role than English at this stage.

[Sedat]

Reading poster/posters saying to try English as a forward target. I think Josh Dunkley and Clay Smith would seriously be more able to play a KP forward role than English at this stage.
I see English as a link man through the middle in a similar vein to Dean Cox in his prime. He has to provide some ruck relief if he is selected this week.

[Rocco Jones]

I see English as a link man through the middle in a similar vein to Dean Cox in his prime. He has to provide some ruck relief if he is selected this week.

I think English (also) really suits floating back to take marks, seems to read the ball well going back in flight. Kinda of like Roughy. I think he is a gem.

[Ozza]

I agree that Roberts and Adams are doing a good job in the back line but I'm not as convinced that Cordy is playing well enough at the moment. Perhaps Adams playing forwardmakes sense.
If Boyd and Campbell are good to go then I'd look at adding another runner at the expense of Cordy which isn't ideal but we will just have to get Wood to play tall.

Like you, I'd prefer to see Tim English play at the VFL for a while yet

I'm not saying Cordy is burning the house down....but if you go back and look at all of the bulldogs goals on Friday night (Al's Highlights did some compilations) - you'll be surprised at how many times a defensive effort or rebound from Cordy is involved in our scores.

Assuming Tom Boyd is ok to play - I wouldn't be changing the team too much.
Would be happy with any of Daniel, Webb or Lipinski for Cloke. Would rather lean towards a smaller forward set up v Brisbane (who are quite tall - young, but tall) anyway.

[Axe Man]

Small Dogs forced to take different forward tack (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-04-18/small-dogs-forced-to-take-different-forward-tack)

THE INJURY concerns affecting the Western Bulldogs tall forwards will force coach Luke Beveridge to employ a "quite different" attack against the Brisbane Lions at Etihad Stadium on Saturday.

Key forward Travis Cloke's rib injury will see him join Stewart Crameri (hip), Jack Redpath (ACL) and Jordan Roughead (hamstring) on the sidelines, forcing the premiers to rely on a smaller set-up headlined by Jake Stringer and Toby McLean.

In better news, the club is confident versatile big man Tom Boyd will overcome concussion to face the Lions.

"We haven't really got any other talls available to come in, so our configuration down (forward) will be quite different to the way we've started the first four rounds," Beveridge said.

"Trav has been terrific at different stages, played extremely well against Sydney, so we'll miss him."

While Beveridge was optimistic Boyd would pass a fitness test later in the week, he said Crameri had suffered a fresh hip injury in the VFL on the weekend.

Boyd received delayed concussion from a head knock in the first quarter of the Good Friday clash with North Melbourne, while Crameri played only two quarters before his problematic hip "flared up" again.

"So we think (Tom is) going to be fine, but again he still needs to get through that cogstate test and our medical staff will need to clear him," Beveridge said.

"He's in a similar situation to (Liam Picken) last week, albeit he did come back on the ground Tom, where 'Picko' didn't.

"(Crameri's) got a bit of a hip flexor injury, so he'll be out this week and possibly the next two or three.

"He definitely won't play at any level this week. It's a fresh injury, he's had a little bit of a grumbly hip in recent times."

Beveridge was happy with the way premiership stars Caleb Daniel and Shane Biggs responded to their demotions to the VFL.

While he didn't go into detail about why the duo were axed, Beveridge forecast a swift return for the usually reliable playmakers.

"Yeah, they did (respond well to being dropped)," he said.

"They accepted that they needed to go back and just work on a couple of things and they did really well.

"They'll be considered this week."

[GVGjr]

I'm not saying Cordy is burning the house down....but if you go back and look at all of the bulldogs goals on Friday night (Al's Highlights did some compilations) - you'll be surprised at how many times a defensive effort or rebound from Cordy is involved in our scores.

Assuming Tom Boyd is ok to play - I wouldn't be changing the team too much.
Would be happy with any of Daniel, Webb or Lipinski for Cloke. Would rather lean towards a smaller forward set up v Brisbane (who are quite tall - young, but tall) anyway.

Cordy has performed OK but I think we are lacking some run. Could he make room for another midfielder?

[soupman]

Cordy is our best replacement for Cloke. Wouldn't drop him for a midfielder seeing as we will get an extra runner in for Cloke anyway.

[LostDoggy]

Out-Cloke-Ah Derr,
In-Lippa

[Greystache]

Out- Cloke
In- Biggs

[Mantis]

Out- Cloke
In- Biggs

You win!

We certainly love our HBF'ers.

[Rocco Jones]

You win!

We certainly love our HBF'ers.

I think we will use Biggs to help free up players to go forward to replace Clokey. He can help out against tall, non power forwards.

[Greystache]

You win!

We certainly love our HBF'ers.

To be fair it may not have been a guess. They'll need to play a variety of roles, and I suspect Murph might play forward quite a bit.

[Eastdog]

We really need a big effort from our forwards and kick well at goal as we certainly get it in there enough times.

[bulldogtragic]

To be fair it may not have been a guess. They'll need to play a variety of roles, and I suspect Murph might play forward quite a bit.

I can live with that, Bob kicking goals in his 300th will make the joint erupt. Perhaps with 2.2 last week, Biggs stays back also freeing Suckling to play high half forward either hitting up forwards or pinging at them from the arc. At least we have a range of options.

[boydogs]

I can live with that, Bob kicking goals in his 300th will make the joint erupt. Perhaps with 2.2 last week, Biggs stays back also freeing Suckling to play high half forward either hitting up forwards or pinging at them from the arc. At least we have a range of options.

Your mate Zaine might be the Cloke stand-in

[Twodogs]

Your mate Zaine might be the Cloke stand-in

He is a premiership winning centre half forward. That puts him in the company of Royce Hart and Darryl Baldock.

[LostDoggy]

I notice Lukas Webb is first emergency again. Tough to find a spot for him, but I would love to see him get a few games in the seniors soon. Regularly picks up over 30 disposals in the vfl and at some point needs to rewarded. Will be interesting to see if he can step up to the next level and what position he would play. Thoughts?

[lemmon]

I notice Lukas Webb is first emergency again. Tough to find a spot for him, but I would love to see him get a few games in the seniors soon. Regularly picks up over 30 disposals in the vfl and at some point needs to rewarded. Will be interesting to see if he can step up to the next level and what position he would play. Thoughts?

Yep completely agree. I think we've groomed a little beauty there. Tough, well skilled, wins his own footy. He's probably competing with Jong for a place in the midfield.

[jeemak]

If he's getting a lot of the ball, using it well and contesting hard then we need to get him into the side as we're lacking a bit of midfield class presently.

[always right]

Yep completely agree. I think we've groomed a little beauty there. Tough, well skilled, wins his own footy. He's probably competing with Jong for a place in the midfield.

I'd like Webb's foot skills transferred to Jong and Jong's explosiveness transferred to Webb. At the moment Webb has yet to prove he can gather enough possessions at senior level. I have Jong well ahead of him currently.

[Smads57]

I like it that over the last 12-18 months Webb has gone from an outside player to an inside mid with a great kick while playing VFL. I look forward to seeing his selection soon into the AFL side.

[Go_Dogs]

I like it that over the last 12-18 months Webb has gone from an outside player to an inside mid with a great kick while playing VFL. I look forward to seeing his selection soon into the AFL side.

It's great having a strong side and being able to have younger players really develop and learn their craft at the lower level. All the teams who have had successful eras are able to do this and suddenly a 22 year old kid pops out from nowhere and plays a strong role in the team. Hopefully we see a few of our younger players come in and cement their spots throughout the year.