Our Accuracy At Goal

[Eastdog]

This is an issue particular over the last 3 weeks for us 12.17, 17.20 were games we won but still the kicking in the first half of the Lions game last week was an issue despite the win and last night against the Greater Waste of Space kicking 9.19 which cost us the game.

What advice would you give to our goal kicking coaches at the club to rectify this issue and can our players improve their goal kicking. Obviously would be interested to know how many are rushed behinds as they wouldn't count and the actual points scored by our team.

[bulldogtragic]

You've got to be the ball Danny. Na na na na na.

[ratsmac]

Composure. We a rushing the shot in general play when we have more time to settle. I'd say mainly due to opposition pressure but still we have to execute under that pressure. Set shots, well I give up. It's all in their head I reckon because when I watch them in the warm up they are pretty good. Fatigue would be a big factor too.

[Twodogs]

This is an issue particular over the last 3 weeks for us 12.17, 17.20 were games we won but still the kicking in the first half of the Lions game last week was an issue despite the win and last night against the Greater Waste of Space kicking 9.19 which cost us the game.

What advice would you give to our goal kicking coaches at the club to rectify this issue and can our players improve their goal kicking. Obviously would be interested to know how many are rushed behinds as they wouldn't count and the actual points scored by our team.


38.56 is a criminal waste. For gods sake. I genuinely don't know how it can be so hard to get professional footballers to a stage where they can kick straight at goal?

Seriously what's the point of all the rest, the strategy and tactics and training and preperation and hard work on the field? What's it all for if we can't get the bloody ball through the goals more often than we miss?

[Eastdog]

38.56 is a criminal waste. For gods sake. I genuinely don't know how it can be so hard to get professional footballers to a stage where they can kick straight at goal?

Seriously what's the point of all the rest, the strategy and tactics and training and preperation and hard work on the field? What's it all for if we can't get the bloody ball through the goals more often than we miss?

Agree. Their is a lot of emphasis on fitness which is very important today but we just cannot afford things like clean ball use, general skill level and goal kicking to lapse. There needs to be a good balance of both.

[S Coast Simon]

Our boys seem to kick of a couple of steps. If ever there was a good example of getting a good straight run up to kick through the ball we need to watch Brown from the Roos. Sure his run up seem ridiculous but the guy kicks way more than he misses. Need momentum to kick straight. If I see Dunkley kick off three steps again I will spew up

[Twodogs]

Our boys seem to kick of a couple of steps. If ever there was a good example of getting a good straight run up to kick through the ball we need to watch Brown from the Roos. Sure his run up seem ridiculous but the guy kicks way more than he misses. Need momentum to kick straight. If I see Dunkley kick off three steps again I will spew up

If I see him hunched over the so that he kicks little helicopters (they aren't even helicopters-more alle-oops in basketball, they go about as far) I'll scream. Dunk does seem to kick more than he misses though. It's hard to imagine what was going through his mind there but.

[Stefcep]

stage fright?

[SonofScray]

It is one issue that has carried over from the BMAC era through to 2017 and has rarely seen any improvements. Perhaps in the early stages of last year's GF & late in the PF.

we have a goto phrase where I sit whenever we miss easy shots early, or rush a shot in play that goes OOF or for a behind."That's what costs you preliminary finals." They stink of Mark West, Gia and Gilbee in pivotal moments in big games. In reality though it is less memorable moments that hurt & the cumulative impact not maximising return on the investment in each surge forward has.

In 2015 it was really stark. We had so many I50s that went down the drain, it burnt us heavily. You can ride your luck and get them n volume alone but eventually a team will be particularly efficient when they have momentum and kill the game.

[Flamethrower]

Our boys seem to kick of a couple of steps. If ever there was a good example of getting a good straight run up to kick through the ball we need to watch Brown from the Roos. Sure his run up seem ridiculous but the guy kicks way more than he misses. Need momentum to kick straight. If I see Dunkley kick off three steps again I will spew up

Lin Jong is another guilty of this - he missed 2 from directly in front against Brisbane, the 2nd from 15m out when he kicked off 2 steps. How are you supposed to develop momentum through the kick off 2 steps Lin? We need Simon Beasley down at the club to assist these recidivists develop a reliable technique.

[comrade]

It's a combination of mental & technical. The technique breaks down under pressure. So we either have to fix the technique so it's more robust under stress or we need to fix the mentality to not feel as pressured in stressful scenarios.

Or even better, a combination of both.

[boydogs]

We have a forward line full of short blokes and midfielders. Our F50 marks are a long way from goal and on the flanks, and most of our scoring shots are scrappy kicks from high pressure contests

Things will change with Cloke, Crameri, Dickson & Roughead back

[Eastdog]

Lin Jong is another guilty of this - he missed 2 from directly in front against Brisbane, the 2nd from 15m out when he kicked off 2 steps. How are you supposed to develop momentum through the kick off 2 steps Lin? We need Simon Beasley down at the club to assist these recidivists develop a reliable technique.

KT and Beaser to assist our forward coaches.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

If anyone suggests Fev I'll spew up

[Eastdog]

If anyone suggests Fev I'll spew up

Yes I heard about that not to us though but yeah he is well and truly past it now. A lot of potential when he was playing but even he admits to himself he was an idiot.

[The bulldog tragician]

Has anyone noticed Jake runs really close to the man on the mark lately? Especially against Brisbane.

[bulldogtragic]

Looked up Dunks, 13.18 so far to date. If he's going to play forward, a little over 40% accuracy is far too big a liability for the team to carry. Especially since he misses some very, very gettable set shots or after marks inside 50. There's a load to like the way he goes about it, and time is on his side, but he needs to address this super do open ASAP or perhaps the coaching staff need to find other roles where he's not responsible for goal kicking.

[Twodogs]

What's a super do open?

[jeemak]

What isn't it TD? Answer me that.

[Twodogs]

It's a combination of mental & technical. The technique breaks down under pressure. So we either have to fix the technique so it's more robust under stress or we need to fix the mentality to not feel as pressured in stressful scenarios.

Or even better, a combination of both.

I think we need to simplify the goal kicking routine to three or four simple things. Draw a deep breath and relax as you are walking back to tak your shot. Run in a straight line. Keep your head over the ball as it hits your foot so you can watch the ball onto your boot. Stand up straight as you kick the ball.

Easy Peazy, lemon squeezy.

[LostDoggy]

Mark Jacko Jackson believes the issue is to do with the shoe laces. He believes players aren't putting the knot on the inside of the boot, so when the boot makes contact with the ball, it's making contact with the knot of the lace. It makes sense to an extent.

[Bulldog4life]

I think we need to simplify the goal kicking routine to three or four simple things. Draw a deep breath and relax as you are walking back to tak your shot. Run in a straight line. Keep your head over the ball as it hits your foot so you can watch the ball onto your boot. Stand up straight as you kick the ball.

Easy Peazy, lemon squeezy.

Menzel from Geelong cured his yips from last year by practicing a new run up technique over summer. It involved not running into a straight line when kicking for goal. He is a right footer.

And then there’s his football comeback that resulted in 18 games last year and 33 goals, an amount that still angers Menzel after he kicked 8.14 in his first six games before going 25.8 when assistant coach Nigel Lappin explained he needed to kick with a hook.

“Nigel made the point that I’m a good field kick, as most players are, because you kick around your body a bit rather than kicking dead straight. You have a natural hook in your kick so what you are doing is running straight into goal and missing to your left. So I used a small hook in my run-up towards the end and my goal kicking went up straight away at training and in matches.”

Despite what he has been through, Menzel still sets very high standards. So how did he rate his first year back after first injuring his knee in the 2011 finals.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/geelong/geelongs-daniel-menzel-isnt-only-trying-to-kick-goals-on-the-field-writes-jon-anderson/news-story/17a50fcaa398cc969a5ee4e04ad6202c

[Twodogs]

Menzel from Geelong cured his yips from last year by practicing a new run up technique over summer. It involved not running into a straight line when kicking for goal. He is a right footer.

And then there’s his football comeback that resulted in 18 games last year and 33 goals, an amount that still angers Menzel after he kicked 8.14 in his first six games before going 25.8 when assistant coach Nigel Lappin explained he needed to kick with a hook.

“Nigel made the point that I’m a good field kick, as most players are, because you kick around your body a bit rather than kicking dead straight. You have a natural hook in your kick so what you are doing is running straight into goal and missing to your left. So I used a small hook in my run-up towards the end and my goal kicking went up straight away at training and in matches.”

Despite what he has been through, Menzel still sets very high standards. So how did he rate his first year back after first injuring his knee in the 2011 finals.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/geelong/geelongs-daniel-menzel-isnt-only-trying-to-kick-goals-on-the-field-writes-jon-anderson/news-story/17a50fcaa398cc969a5ee4e04ad6202c


Interesting. Buddy runs in a crooked line too and I wouldn't fix him. He used to be a pretty ordinary set shot though but he's improved a lot.

The best way to kick a footy (and throwing and catching balls-I'm a simple soul) is a subject that has fascinated me ever since I can remember. I'd argue that you still need a solid basic technique, consisting of the steps I mentioned, before you start experimenting with it though. For a few if our boys I'd take it right back to basics "forget everthing you've learned" type of thing and install those few basics with a few thousand practice kicks.

[S Coast Simon]

You've got to be the ball Danny. Na na na na na.
Brilliant

[1eyedog]

I think we need to simplify the goal kicking routine to three or four simple things. Draw a deep breath and relax as you are walking back to tak your shot. Run in a straight line. Keep your head over the ball as it hits your foot so you can watch the ball onto your boot. Stand up straight as you kick the ball.

Easy Peazy, lemon squeezy.

Then there's counting the number of steps you need to take, ensuring you don't get too close too the man on the mark and in between worrying about this you stress out on missing the goals twice, then worry about your ball drop and wonder whether you've taken your hand off the ball too early, and then kicking off the instep or high on the foot. And of course keeping your leg straight and aiming for the goal umpire, or was that drawing a laser line between your boot and the goal umpire? Wait, was that a puff of wind? Anyway it doesn't matter now I missed I'll get all that stuff right next time...

[Twodogs]

Then there's counting the number of steps you need to take, ensuring you don't get too close too the man on the mark and in between worrying about this you stress out on missing the goals twice, then worry about your ball drop and wonder whether you've taken your hand off the ball too early, and then kicking off the instep or high on the foot. And of course keeping your leg straight and aiming for the goal umpire, or was that drawing a laser line between your boot and the goal umpire? Wait, was that a puff of wind? Anyway it doesn't matter now I missed I'll get all that stuff right next time...



That's all the stuff you have to forget. All you have to do is four simple things.

Give me a player for an hour and I will make him a better kick.

[Eastdog]

12.17 win
17.20 win
9.19 loss
11.14 win

Last night - under 15 behinds so slightly better compared to previous weeks but more goals as well would be nice

[Ozza]

Our accuracy has been poor this season - so I don't want this post to be defending our bad kicking.

But just wanted to put some facts into the story generally for the league. Watching and listening to football programmes, sports radio etc, or just talking to people in general about football - it seems like everyone wants to talk about 'how bad kicking at goal is these days' and how players are getting worse at kicking for goal. Statistically speaking, it is just not true. For all teams combined, this season ranks as the 6th most accurate of all time. In fact, of the top 20 'accurate' seasons, 14 of these (and 18 of the top 24) are seasons after 2000.

There was never a season where players kicked for goal at better that 50% until 1971 - and only a handful IN the 70s that were at better than 50%. Sam Newman bangs on about it - he kicked 103.129 in his career. Matthews and Bartlett - kicked more behinds than any other player in history.

Now of course modern players should be more accurate than the past. My point is that they actually are! And I wish I would stop hearing from past players, or older supporters - who are convinced that everyone kicked as straight as Plugger back in their day!

[bornadog]

Now of course modern players should be more accurate than the past. My point is that they actually are! And I wish I would stop hearing from past players, or older supporters - who are convinced that everyone kicked as straight as Plugger back in their day!

I for one have never thought goal kicking in the past was better. Players these days are incredible at snapping goals, kicking from all angles and executing the drop punt.

One stat I would like to see is accuracy with set shots.

[Eastdog]

We had less behinds compared to the opposition tonight but this still is an issue. We are quite good in open play at goal we had a few good ones tonight but still struggle at those sets although we had a few good ones.

[bornadog]

We had less behinds compared to the opposition tonight but this still is an issue. We are quite good in open play at goal we had a few good ones tonight but still struggle at those sets although we had a few good ones.
Kennedy could have kicked 10. Goal kicking wasn't the problem. It WA lack of pressure on the WC backs who just ran the ball out of defence

[Eastdog]

Kennedy could have kicked 10. Goal kicking wasn't the problem. It WA lack of pressure on the WC backs who just ran the ball out of defence

Inside 50s 47 to 50 in our favour. 9 for the Eagles from 47 and 8 for us from 50.

[bornadog]

Here is an interesting list. Naughton on 54% accuracy and JUH 31% and Cody 58%. Our old mate Stringer on 42%. List thanks to Oliver Gigacz

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzCyY14aAAAK6sH?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Axe Man]

I've raised this more than once but people seem to believe Naughton is an awful kick and Jamarra is great.

What baffles me with Jamarra is the amount of set shots he absolutely shanks. He has a great kicking action so I don't understand why he kicks so many shockers. Naughton doesn't look pretty but his kicking isn't that bad save for the odd one he sprays from close range.

[The bulldog tragician]

Jamarra has also had quite a few “ didn’t make the distance” ones. Tom Boyd commented on the Danny Boyd podcast that fatigue can be a real factor - that sometimes forwards have covered two km between kicks - and given he does actually lead often, I wonder if this is a part explanation.

[Scorlibo]

I've raised this more than once but people seem to believe Naughton is an awful kick and Jamarra is great.

What baffles me with Jamarra is the amount of set shots he absolutely shanks. He has a great kicking action so I don't understand why he kicks so many shockers. Naughton doesn't look pretty but his kicking isn't that bad save for the odd one he sprays from close range.

I reckon he has too much up and down motion with his run up and not enough forward momentum. When I last played we had a team rule to never kick the ball without getting up to a jog. Just the same as riding a bike, you need the forward momentum for balance.

51 shots at goal is right up there, much prefer that he's getting plenty of shots and missing them than getting only a few and nailing them. He'll turn it around, such a beautiful kick when he strikes it well.

[GVGjr]

I've raised this more than once but people seem to believe Naughton is an awful kick and Jamarra is great.

What baffles me with Jamarra is the amount of set shots he absolutely shanks. He has a great kicking action so I don't understand why he kicks so many shockers. Naughton doesn't look pretty but his kicking isn't that bad save for the odd one he sprays from close range.

Marra doesn't concentrate like he should. Some of the shanks and misses from set shots are deplorable but he escapes criticism because he is a number 1 pick and he is young. When someone like Hannan misses gettable goals we all hear about it.

It's interesting how supporters benchmark players.

At some time the club will have to admit there is issue and do something about it.

[kruder]

Marra doesn't concentrate like he should. Some of the shanks and misses from set shots are deplorable but he escapes criticism because he is a number 1 pick and he is young. When someone like Hannan misses gettable goals we all hear about it.

It's interesting how supporters benchmark players.

At some time the club will have to admit there is issue and do something about it.

Hawkins said on the telecast that he doesn't like his routine, he clearly leans back and doesn't use his momentum through the ball.

[GVGjr]

Hawkins said on the telecast that he doesn't like his routine, he clearly leans back and doesn't use his momentum through the ball.

That goal he missed after the siren and his reaction after it to me highlights he doesn't really get the importance of nailing set shots.

[Grantysghost]

Marra doesn't concentrate like he should. Some of the shanks and misses from set shots are deplorable but he escapes criticism because he is a number 1 pick and he is young. When someone like Hannan misses gettable goals we all hear about it.

It's interesting how supporters benchmark players.

At some time the club will have to admit there is issue and do something about it.

Worst post ever.

Almost wonder if there's some sort of vendetta here.

I'll raise it with Marra. Deplorable!

[GVGjr]

Worst post ever.

Almost wonder if there's some sort of vendetta here.

I'll raise it with Marra. Deplorable!

The word deplorable might not have been the best choice of a phrase and I'm happy to amend it to unfortunate if that fixes it?

[Grantysghost]

The word deplorable might not have been the best choice of a phrase and I'm happy to amend it to unfortunate if that fixes it?

I've texted Marra let's see what he thinks.

[macca]

Do the players train under fatigue ? i.e do goal kicking practice at the end of sessions ?

Playing under fatigue is a whole different scenario. Muscles are tired, cramp is threatening, numbness starting to set in.


When I use to train for Taekwondo tournaments, we would do an hour of conditioning to get fatigue, and then 5 mins of sparring ( match like conditions. which was very high intensity). This was when natural technique would kick in, as the endurance and pain factor would be reaching very high thresholds.

[bornadog]

Hawkins said on the telecast that he doesn't like his routine, he clearly leans back and doesn't use his momentum through the ball.

Get him down as a kicking coach next year

[1eyedog]

Jamarra has also had quite a few ? didn?t make the distance? ones. Tom Boyd commented on the Danny Boyd podcast that fatigue can be a real factor - that sometimes forwards have covered two km between kicks - and given he does actually lead often, I wonder if this is a part explanation.

100% it does.

The mind can get tired in young players as well. This can happen in different ways such as continuous intensive focus on your role, concentrating on your positioning all match (including timing repeated leads etc.), or simply through missing a few early ones and then managing the anxiety that naturally creeps in.

When the mind is fatigued there is more risk in the process.

[FrediKanoute]

Gee Cody is impressive. Over 50%.

[bornadog]

Gee Cody is impressive. Over 50%.

Cody is the 13th most accurate kick in AFL history from 1965 through to current at 70.59%

Some surprises on the list:




TM
G
B
%


Michael Murphy
NM/AD/BB
63
19
76.83


Tory Dickson
WB
181
61
74.79


Mathew Capuano
NM/SK
37
13
74


Nick Larkey
NM
159
59
72.94


Barnaby French
PA/CA
40
15
72.73


Shane Loveless
FO
72
28
72


Darcy Fogarty
AD
104
41
71.72


Ben McEvoy
SK/HW
106
42
71.62


Peter Jones
CA
284
113
71.54


Trent Hotton
CW/CA
50
20
71.43


Nathan Vardy
GE/WC
47
19
71.21


Xavier Ellis
HW/WC
37
15
71.15


Cody Weightman
WB
84
35
70.59

[GVGjr]

Do the players train under fatigue ? i.e do goal kicking practice at the end of sessions ?

Playing under fatigue is a whole different scenario. Muscles are tired, cramp is threatening, numbness starting to set in.


When I use to train for Taekwondo tournaments, we would do an hour of conditioning to get fatigue, and then 5 mins of sparring ( match like conditions. which was very high intensity). This was when natural technique would kick in, as the endurance and pain factor would be reaching very high thresholds.

They tend to do goal kicking practice at the end of training sessions to make sure the players have a level of fatigue.

[D Mitchell]

I've texted Marra let's see what he thinks.
I don?t know whether this is a joke or not. If not, I?d counsel you not to encourage players to look at footy forums, the criticisms of many, particularly those in need of a confidence boost, could be devastating. A timely reminder.

[Grantysghost]

I don?t know whether this is a joke or not. If not, I?d counsel you not to encourage players to look at footy forums, the criticisms of many, particularly those in need of a confidence boost, could be devastating. A timely reminder.

Yes amazingly they are people.

[Ozza]

I've raised this more than once but people seem to believe Naughton is an awful kick and Jamarra is great.

What baffles me with Jamarra is the amount of set shots he absolutely shanks. He has a great kicking action so I don't understand why he kicks so many shockers. Naughton doesn't look pretty but his kicking isn't that bad save for the odd one he sprays from close range.

Apart from him losing his run up in recent weeks, Jamarra's main issue is his stablising (right) leg collapsing. Making him really inconsistent. I really hope he spends the bye week working on it.

[josie]

I sai d it elsewhere-I reckon Marra waves the ball around too much. Weightman, Grub Greene, Cameron if I recall correctly do not wave it about so much and and it increases accuracy. Marra also ends up with his upper body leaning back after the kick, possibly due to his right leg collapsing (will take a closer look at that - thanks Ozza).