Making The Case For: Sam Reid (Sydney)

[bulldogtragic]

Another of these thread types. Nathan Brown suggested we are into Sam Reid of Sydney. This is my case for passing on him. So ladies & gentlemen of the WOOF jury:

Sam Reid (Sydney):

Games: 104
Goals: 105

Height: 196cm
Weight: 97cm

Why?: I've always had question marks on him. From a consistency perspective and physical perspective. I've said a lot when we had Liam Jones, that I thought these two were the most identical players I have ever seen. From a stats record here is the key numbers:

Liam Jones (Carlton version): Averaging 8.4 disposals, .9 goals a game
Sam Reid (entire career): Averaging 11 disposals, 1 goals a game

On stats, that's damning to me. Especially since he's had other big forwards to take the better defenders. I know when we've seen him play against us, he's looked good. That may create a bias as the team he has scored the most against is... The Western Bulldogs. So we see his best, while fans of other clubs don't really see it. So don't take our viewing experience of him as a broader sample of his consistency.

He missed all of 2016 with injury. That's got to be a concern too. Especially if he's commanding $550,000+ a season.

Further, we need to find a proven finals performer. Reid has played in 9 finals as a forward, and has kicked only 5 goals (barely .5 goals a final). Those mere five goals were matched with 7 behinds, so he is under 50% goal kicking conversion of the 1.25 shots he gets per final. So he doesn't stand up in finals according to his stats, he doesn't get many shots on goal and the ones he does get are majority misses. So I'm really, really concerned about his ability to make us better in the window we are in. His Liam Jones comparison on stats alone gets even closer in finals:

Liam Jones (Carlton version): Averaging 8.4 disposals, 3.2 marks (1.5 contested) & .9 goals a game (50% accuracy)
Sam Reid (finals career): Averaging 8.4 disposals, 3.4 marks (1.2 contested) & .5 goals a game (under 50% accuracy)

I think if we have one free agency shot with the salary cap we have left, the player needs to make us a better September team. Also, his goal kicking accuracy over his career is just 59% which may exacerbate our goal kicking conversion problems.

So to conclude, his body has durability issues, his career stats aren't great and finals career compare closely to the Carlton version of Liam Jones, he's not a good goal kicking converter and he goes horribly missing in September. The competition on him may mean a 4 year deal around $550,000 is the minimum offer to get him, which blocks us on other free agent or trade targets. I have a lot of issues that need to be explained before thinking this is a great idea.

Dear WOOFER jury, has the case been made to pass on Reid, or is it way off track?

[Topdog]

He averages 2.4 goals a game against us over 5 games.
2 against Brisbane - 6 games
1.7 - Gold Coast - 6
1.4 - Port - 7

Every other team is 1 or less. It's a pass for me at this stage but basically he has been not good enough in any year.

Even this year his 6 games have been
3 goals, 6 goals, 1, 1, 0, 0

Just not enough impact.

[bornadog]

He has been very disappointing over the years. I realise he has had many injuries, but he just isn't consistent enough throughout the season.

This is not an impressive record.



Career Season Averages





Year
Team
Games
Kicks
Handballs
Disposals
Marks
Goals
Behinds
Tackles
Hitouts
Frees For
Frees Ag.
Brownlow


2017
Sydney (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_home?tid=17)
6
7.2
6.7
13.8
5.2
1.8
0.3
2.5
4.8
1.0
0.2



2015
Sydney (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_home?tid=17)
22
6.7
6.8
13.4
5.8
0.7
0.6
2.4
2.4
0.8
0.4
0.10


2014
Sydney (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_home?tid=17)
20
5.0
5.3
10.3
3.4
0.8
0.4
2.4
2.3
0.6
0.4



2013
Sydney (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_home?tid=17)
10
6.1
4.7
10.8
3.8
0.7
0.4
2.4
0
0.3
0.6



2012
Sydney (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_home?tid=17)
22
5.2
4.1
9.4
3.1
1.4
0.9
2.0
0
1.0
0.6
0.11


2011
Sydney (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_home?tid=17)
23
6.2
4.2
10.4
4.6
1.0
1.1
2.0
0
1.1
0.4



2010
Sydney (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_team_home?tid=17)
1
9.0
4.0
13.0
8.0
1.0
1.0
1.0
0
2.0
0



Career

104
5.9
5.1
11.1
4.3
1.0
0.7
2.2
1.2
0.9
0.4
0.04

[ledge]

Maybe we are looking at him as the tall intercept mark in the backline .. Take over from Murphy, remember it's for next year and we are looking at losing Morris , Boyd and Murphy through retirement.

[bulldogtragic]

Maybe we are looking at him as the tall intercept mark in the backline .. Take over from Murphy, remember it's for next year and we are looking at losing Morris , Boyd and Murphy through retirement.

Why not recruit someone proficient and experienced in that role?

[ledge]

Why not recruit someone proficient and experienced in that role?

And the last time we recruited a guy who was strong in a position and we kept him there was Barry hall :-)

[ratsmac]

To play devil's advocate I thought Reid had played as a defender since Buddy arrived at Sydney, except for this year. If I'm correct it wouldn't be fair to assess him on goal average.

He has also had a horrible run with injuries so getting continuity in his footy has been difficult. I haven't watched him that closely but every time I notice him starting to string some good quality games together he gets injured. His durability is his biggest issue.

Anyone who can get games at Sydney (not this year maybe) would be worth a look. They have been the most consistent finals contender for the last 20 years. The are a very professional club with a great football program. I wanted us to consider Xavier Richards for a rookie spot for this reason.

That said, I'd put him in the maybe pile at the right price. If there isn't anyone else that pops up why not. He could be our Rory Lobb type player.

[GVGjr]

He's not a high possession winner and never will be but he is a versatile player capable of holding down a few positions.
I'd be surprised if he leaves Sydney based on some comments he has made. I hope we have a chat to him though

[bulldogtragic]

He's not a high possession winner and never will be but he is a versatile player capable of holding down a few positions.
I'd be surprised if he leaves Sydney based on some comments he has made. I hope we have a chat to him though

I know you like Trengrove, and rated Schoenmakers as a junior. Both are free agents also. Would have Reid over those, as we can only afford one bigger salary all things being equal.

[comrade]

I know you like Trengrove, and rated Schoenmakers as a junior. Both are free agents also. Would have Reid over those, as we can only afford one bigger salary all things being equal.

I'm on Team Trengove.

Main thing is he's a competitor and has a mean streak. He's multi-positional and has even kicked a few goals this year. Would suit a Beveridge game plan, IMO.

[GVGjr]

I know you like Trengrove, and rated Schoenmakers as a junior. Both are free agents also. Would have Reid over those, as we can only afford one bigger salary all things being equal.

Schoenmakers hasn't improved and has stalled. I doubt he could even be a depth player because I don't think he has a true position.
I think Trengove still appeals as a good fit for us but I don't think we will be interested.

Just on the financials, we had plenty of money to after Hurley with so I'm not so sure that with a bit of a clean and maybe a restructure of a contract or two at the end of the season we couldn't land a couple of good players if we really wanted to.

[bulldogtragic]

Schoenmakers hasn't improved and has stalled. I doubt he could even be a depth player because I don't think he has a true position.
I think Trengove still appeals as a good fit for us but I don't think we will be interested.

Just on the financials, we had plenty of money to after Hurley with so I'm not so sure that with a bit of a clean and maybe a restructure of a contract or two at the end of the season we couldn't land a couple of good players if we really wanted to.

I take it you think Reid is a good player. What's he bring into the squad that we don't have and where would you play him? Are you concerned by his finals record?

[jeemak]

I keep hearing about this Hurley money as if it's still just sitting around.

As well as we all might know what Hurley did or didn't get close to accepting, you can be sure that money has been soaked up via the ever increasing ambition of player managers and the influence they have over their clients.

If the money hasn't been allocated to important contract renewals over new player acquisition I'd be really surprised.

[Dry Rot]

Seen a lot of Reid, always had doubts but now even more after the fine Jones comparison.

One very important point that everyone has missed is that Reid has an exceptionally small head.

That might explain a lot.

[boydogs]

I'm not hiring you as a lawyer BT, you basically argued the case for the opposition ;)

Reid has had a good start to the year, you'd like to see him maintain that for a couple of seasons but then his price would go through the roof

[Topdog]

I'm not hiring you as a lawyer BT, you basically argued the case for the opposition ;)

Reid has had a good start to the year, you'd like to see him maintain that for a couple of seasons but then his price would go through the roof

2 goals in his last 4 games. He had a decent first week, got 6 against us and then fallen off a cliff.

[jeemak]

Looking at stats plainly is always fraught with opportunity to make poor decisions.

Reid is the classic example of how subjective or qualitative assessment is important in recruiting.

Would he be better in our system than within the Sydney system? Better check the stats.......

Have his ongoing injuries had a material impact on his development or output at Sydney? Better check the stats.......

Has playing in positions other than forward hampered his numbers as a forward? Better check the stats......

[GVGjr]

I take it you think Reid is a good player. What's he bring into the squad that we don't have and where would you play him? Are you concerned by his finals record?

I'd like to have a versatile player who can take a grab as a forward or defender and even take a turn in the ruck and while I don't mind Reid I can't see us being serious contenders for him. I wouldn't be concerned about his finals record but I'd want to make sure he is through a lot of his injury concerns.

[GVGjr]

I keep hearing about this Hurley money as if it's still just sitting around.

As well as we all might know what Hurley did or didn't get close to accepting, you can be sure that money has been soaked up via the ever increasing ambition of player managers and the influence they have over their clients.

If the money hasn't been allocated to important contract renewals over new player acquisition I'd be really surprised.

My comment is that if we had the capacity to chase Hurley and put a significant on the table given he didn't accept it I think we can assume we can go after other players if they really appeal. Of course the money just isn't sitting around but there must be room to chase a high priced player.

[Topdog]

Looking at stats plainly is always fraught with opportunity to make poor decisions.

Reid is the classic example of how subjective or qualitative assessment is important in recruiting.

Would he be better in our system than within the Sydney system? Better check the stats.......

Have his ongoing injuries had a material impact on his development or output at Sydney? Better check the stats.......

Has playing in positions other than forward hampered his numbers as a forward? Better check the stats......

Does anyone look at stats plainly? My post mentions stats a lot but the reality is watching him I think he is no chop.

[The Pie Man]

Seem to remember a few passages of play in the 2012 GF that impressed

Checking stats

2012 GF

6 K 7 HB 3 M 1 G 1 B

Looks like he had a dirty day in the 2014 GF - not on his Pat there.

Definitely fits the athletic type we believe Bevo likes. Haven't we been linked with him before?

[jeemak]

Seem to remember a few passages of play in the 2012 GF that impressed

Checking stats

2012 GF

6 K 7 HB 3 M 1 G 1 B

Looks like he had a dirty day in the 2014 GF - not on his Pat there.

Definitely fits the athletic type we believe Bevo likes. Haven't we been linked with him before?

Of course we have. He's a b-c grader over 6ft 3 in....

[Twodogs]

My comment is that if we had the capacity to chase Hurley and put a significant on the table given he didn't accept it I think we can assume we can go after other players if they really appeal. Of course the money just isn't sitting around but there must be room to chase a high priced player.

Yeah. If the opportunity to sign a good player we'd find the money.


Seem to remember a few passages of play in the 2012 GF that impressed

Checking stats

2012 GF

6 K 7 HB 3 M 1 G 1 B

Looks like he had a dirty day in the 2014 GF - not on his Pat there.

Definitely fits the athletic type we believe Bevo likes. Haven't we been linked with him before?

Him and his brother were F/S qualified with us for most of their life before the AFeL changed the rules.

[Dry Rot]

Never been impressed with Reid. Went to the SCG yesterday - he was poo against poo opposition .

The Swans #23 was pretty impressive though. :D

[Topdog]

Where did he play this week? I didnt watch the game but with 20 goals kicked by the team for him to get just 1 behind seems like another poor game in what was essentially a training drill.

[Twodogs]

What about a case for Ben Reid? He gets on the park a little more often, is a little more robust in his play, can also play both ends of the ground although he's more of a defender who goes forward and that would suit us more when all our forwards have returned. We are already talking about making forwards into defenders so why not just bring in a defender? I don't know what his contract situation is but if he is uncontracted then he will be a FA too.

But if he isn't and I think he signed for three years at the end of last year what have we got that Collingwood would want? Do they have a first round pick this year or did they give it away again? Ben Reid has just turned 28. Depending on a medical would pick 18 be fair? Or is it too much? After all Hamling a premiership full back like Reid but 5 years younger was only a third round upgrade wasn't he?

[strebla]

Ben Reid a fA next year I think. Still unsure of Sam and where I sit wouldn't be upset if Bevo want him.

[Bulldog4life]

Schoenmakers hasn't improved and has stalled. I doubt he could even be a depth player because I don't think he has a true position.
I think Trengove still appeals as a good fit for us but I don't think we will be interested.

Just on the financials, we had plenty of money to after Hurley with so I'm not so sure that with a bit of a clean and maybe a restructure of a contract or two at the end of the season we couldn't land a couple of good players if we really wanted to.

Reckon JJ and his manager are aware of that too.

[bornadog]

Free agency could see key Swan Sam Reid head to Victoria (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-05-11/free-agency-could-see-key-swan-sam-reid-head-to-victoria)

[bulldogtragic]

Thank god we are not linked to him, Moreso on offers of $800,000 a season. No way in hell hes even close to that. Surely someone is taking the piss.