Hindsight: Stewart Crameri

[bulldogtragic]

With regard to another thread bringing up the trade, my mind goes back to this board at the time where I think we topped over 1,000 posts in a single thread about Crameri before the trade went through. Which is still a woof record for a thread on a player for another club.

One of themes was 'buyer beware' with regard to possible suspension and whether he could get back. The other aspect post trade was our generous offer to them of pick 26 despite Crameri publicly saying he was wanting out, which landed them their next captain in Zak Merrett.

Now in the last year of his contract, and with at least another month off with this hip problem and a year on the sidelines (having knocked back a slap of the wrist deal), using our powers of hindsight, where do we see this trade now? What do we need to see to make it either a) A complete success or b) A complete failure?

[Bulldog Joe]

It is unfortunately a loss for us and foisted on us by that coach.

Hindsight is easy and we would have a better outcome to have forced the issue and not traded with Essendon.

The other thing from hindsight is how much quality was available in that draft. It would have been difficult not to pick a quality player and Merrett would really add to any side.

[Topdog]

Same as a saw it when we did it, a silly trade that gave up far too much for a player in such a risky position.

[Topdog]

The other thing from hindsight is how much quality was available in that draft. It would have been difficult not to pick a quality player and Merrett would really add to any side.

Players taken from pick 26 to our next pick - Fuller. Some decent names


Zach Merrett
Sean Lemmens
Lewis Taylor
Rory Lobb
Trent Dumont
Malcolm Karpany
George Hewett
Tom Cutler
Nick Robertson
Toby Nankervis
Jarrad Jansen
Alex Pearce
Dayle Garlett
Cameron Giles
Jay Kennedy-Harris
Jake Kolodjashnij

[Happy Days]

Same as a saw it when we did it, a silly trade that gave up far too much for a player in such a risky position.

Yeah pretty much. Said at the time we should have played hard ball and gotten him to walk for nothing, and that he wasn't/isn't worth the amount we paid. A stupid trade made at the whim of a terrible coach.

I know retrospective drafting is a fool's science, but it really burns seeing Zach Merrett running around.

[comrade]

Yeah pretty much. Said at the time we should have played hard ball and gotten him to walk for nothing, and that he wasn't/isn't worth the amount we paid. A stupid trade made at the whim of a terrible coach.

I know retrospective drafting is a fool's science, but it really burns seeing Zach Merrett running around.

Why? Who's to say we would have picked him? We could have picked Malcolm Karpany.

[Happy Days]

Why? Who's to say we would have picked him? We could have picked Malcolm Karpany.

The point is that it's a serious asset to give up, and that Essendon picked such a good player is only further evidence to that.

[Axe Man]

Players taken from pick 26 to our next pick - Honeychurch. Some decent names


Zach Merrett
Sean Lemmens
Lewis Taylor
Rory Lobb
Trent Dumont
Malcolm Karpany
George Hewett
Tom Cutler
Nick Robertson
Toby Nankervis
Jarrad Jansen
Alex Pearce
Dayle Garlett
Cameron Giles
Jay Kennedy-Harris
Jake Kolodjashnij
Matt Fuller
Tom Barrass
Aliir Aliir
Mitchell Harvey
Riley Knight
Ben Brown
Dylan Main
Nathan Gordon
Nick Holman
Darcy Byrne-Jones
Josh Walker
Orazio Fantasia
James Sicily
Jayden Hunt
Brady Grey
John Ceglar

Our next pick was Fuller.

[Ozza]

I don't think anything will make the trade either a complete success or complete failure.

Pretty good output from him in years 1 & 2 of his contract. In the year he missed, we win the premiership. Once he gets back, we'll see if he can do enough to win himself another contract with us.

[bornadog]

I don't think anything will make the trade either a complete success or complete failure.

Pretty good output from him in years 1 & 2 of his contract. In the year he missed, we win the premiership. Once he gets back, we'll see if he can do enough to win himself another contract with us.

Agreed. He has been a valuable player and kicked plenty of goals. May have cost a bit but who cares, we got a goal kicker.

[Jeanette54]

Am I the only one who thinks the initial posts are a little heartless, given Stewart is about to undergo surgery which will see a further period on the sidelines. I for one wish him well for a speedy recovery and return to the team.

I must confess there are times when I feel some disquiet regarding some of the posts I read here.

Support for the team is one thing, but support for the individuals who make up the team is also an essential.

[Topdog]

Am I the only one who thinks the initial posts are a little heartless, given Stewart is about to undergo surgery which will see a further period on the sidelines. I for one wish him well for a speedy recovery and return to the team.

I must confess there are times when I feel some disquiet regarding some of the posts I read here.

Support for the team is one thing, but support for the individuals who make up the team is also an essential.

I dont understand this to be honest. I support big Stew and will do so as long as he is associated with the club but I do query the trade and the decisions made at that time.

[Remi Moses]

We should have played hardball with Essendon with Stewie.
I'm all for maintaining healthy trading relationships, but they're a different beast .
In particular the vile that was coming from the mouths of people there about him .

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Worse still was trading Brian Lake for a pick upgrade to a club desperate for a key defender on day 1 of the trade period.

Did we overpay for Crameri? Marginally, but we got solid service in his first 2 years when we had very little up forward. He has had an awful start to 2017, but I am surprised at those who are writing him off so quickly. Get his hip right, return to play and then discuss his progress/contract.

It's been far from a disaster.

I'm much more annoyed that we took Fuller over some bloody good footballers.

[comrade]

The Lake deal was much worse than this but then you look at the Hawks clearing Mitchell & Lewis for peanuts and it's hard to really pinpoint what's bad and what's not these days.

[G-Mo77]

I don't think we overpaid. At the time Crameri was worth around a 2nd round pick, we're pretty honest traders in recent times and to "screw" another club just doesn't seem what we'd do. I was fine with it regardless of who they picked. It is an empty pick so who knows who we would have taken with it.

What's always got up my nose is that we lost a player for a year who could have got a slap on the wrist. The clubs advice was ignored and advice from another club and players was taken.

[1eyedog]

Good trade with his best still in front of him. I really rate him and think he's built for finals. Get him right and when he gets his touch back he'll be very damaging towards the latter part of the year.

He's a very good player when fit.

[cinder]

He's a very good player when fit.

Yeah he had such a great season in 2015, it was disappointing to lose him for a year and now this year with all the injuries. Hope he can get back to his best.

[hujsh]

Hindsight says he should have testified for ASADA and got the whole thing over with. Half of 2015, all of 2016 and arguably even his form this year has been affected by dragging it out.

[GVGjr]

Pick 26 worked out very well for us and I think Stu has been a good guy at the club. It was a shame he missed a season and has now struggled with some injuries this year but overall I think it was a positive outcome.

[josie]

We are a v.good club with it appears a good culture. Hence I back the club & Crammers for him to overcome injuries and mental scars such that he is back in best 22 sometime in 2nd half of season. I think his been worth pick 26 already.

[jeemak]

Much like the Lake situation it's overly presumptuous to suggest we should have held out for longer to get a better deal or buckled simply to get a deal done when trading for Stu. We're all excellent negotiators from afar, but once provided with sufficient detail things we would probably become less black and white and empathy for the decision making process in each situation would take over (much like criminal sentencing or bail setting). I see it all the time in the industry I'm involved within, politics, you name it.

I think he's offered up a mixed bag. If he kicks straight in the 2015 elimination final he pays for himself - unfortunately for him he had a dirty day accuracy wise (he had an excellent game otherwise). The good games he plays are influential, when he has a stinger he really has a stinker.

Hopefully he can get back into some form post surgery. We need his versatility and the side will thrive with selection pressure afoot.

[AndrewP6]

No problems with it from my point of view. Has provided good service. Get him fit and firing, he can get back to that.

[westdog54]

Its weird. A few lean weeks and all of a sudden we've lost out on this trade.

At the time Essendon were trying to squeeze all sorts of extras out of us, but we held out on a second round pick. That was market value at the time and I can't see how anything has changed.

Yes, Essendon have done superbly in selecting Zach Merrett, there's no doubt he's a great player. But the notion that we've already "lost" this trade is bonkers.

[comrade]

Its weird. A few lean weeks and all of a sudden we've lost out on this trade.

At the time Essendon were trying to squeeze all sorts of extras out of us, but we held out on a second round pick. That was market value at the time and I can't see how anything has changed.

Yes, Essendon have done superbly in selecting Zach Merrett, there's no doubt he's a great player. But the notion that we've already "lost" this trade is bonkers.

Yep, there are still some salty Essendon fans out there that believe we 'stole' Bont from them because they should have received pick 4 in the Crameri deal.

[GVGjr]

Its weird. A few lean weeks and all of a sudden we've lost out on this trade.

At the time Essendon were trying to squeeze all sorts of extras out of us, but we held out on a second round pick. That was market value at the time and I can't see how anything has changed.

Yes, Essendon have done superbly in selecting Zach Merrett, there's no doubt he's a great player. But the notion that we've already "lost" this trade is bonkers.

Spot on, it's a good discussion but it also needs to be understood that Essendon offered us their pick 9 and Crameri for our pick 4 (Bontempelli) so to me if people are going to throw Merrett into the discussion lets factor in the the full range of discussions.

J-Mac and Dalrymple weren't having any of that.

Crameri has been a good pick-up and we got it about right.

[SonofScray]

Crameri is a hell of a player when he is fit and able, a real weapon in the forward line. Not a reliable kick but certainly a goal kicker. We paid market value for him at the trade table and he has played well when available. We have lost some value by virtue of his time out, but I don't see how that somehow adds value to Essendon's side of the ledger. They landed a dead set gun with pick 26, we fluffed it with Fuller. Win-win at least, if we absolutely have to run with a narrative around who has "won" the draft & trade period.

[bulldogtragic]

Spot on, it's a good discussion but it also needs to be understood that Essendon offered us their pick 9 and Crameri for our pick 4 (Bontempelli) so to me if people are going to throw Merrett into the discussion lets factor in the the full range of discussions.

J-Mac and Dalrymple weren't having any of that.

Crameri has been a good pick-up and we got it about right.

I almost certain that they also wanted JJ as a sweetener.

[boydogs]

Essendon won that one, nailed the pick they got

[jeemak]

BT/SOS - That's why I don't get why anyone views the trade as if they're Karl Hungus coming to fix the cable, and those at the table at the time fluffed it.

[Sedat]

Stewie for pick 26 was fair and reasonable market value at the time had he not been a player with a potential future doping violation hanging over his shoulders. It was incredibly naive of us and the rest of the AFL Community to not foresee any future doping violations and subsequent suspensions.

Essendon are a piece of shit club and we should have pushed hard for Crammers to be classed as a delisted free agent and have his existing EFC contract declared null and void.

[Twodogs]

Did Crameri lead our goalkicking in 2014-15?

[Ozza]

Did Crameri lead our goalkicking in 2014-15?

He was our leading goalkicker in their 2014 season with 37, but Stringer kicked about 56 goals in 2015 (and Dickson kicked 50) to Crameri kicking 32 I think.

[bornadog]

He was our leading goalkicker in their 2014 season with 37, but Stringer kicked about 56 goals in 2015 (and Dickson kicked 50) to Crameri kicking 32 I think.

In his 5 full seasons, he has kicked 30 odd goals each year - very consistent.

[1eyedog]

In his 5 full seasons, he has kicked 30 odd goals each year - very consistent.

More than this though he provides a fantastic lead up target, requires a very good defender who is big enough, strong enough and quick enough to go with him which assists to free up Jake as the opposition then need two of these types to cover them. It's also how he gets his goals. He can drive them from 55 and is equally good opportunistically in traffic.

I think the fact that Crammer was off the radar throughout the doping ban coupled with the fact that he lacks touch at the moment may make fans feel his value has dropped. The Cloke acquisition and his promising early signs in the Crameri role does not help his case when weighing up the benefits of the trade atm.

I'm not implying Crammers is a superstar, but at his very best he's more than a handful and, personally, I think he'll have a part to play during our finals campaign.

[SlimPickens]

He kicked 7 in a game against the Dons which for that reason alone, made this trade awesome. Hope he gets back to the level of late 15', it will make our forward line even more dangerous.

[soupman]

Pick 26 is good value really.

I've mentioned this before but draft picks are criminally overrated until you get into the top 5.

Pick 26 in reality was a 50% chance of being a player of AFL standard, smaller yet of being a player of Crameri's standard and smaller even yet of being a gun. Even that draft which was a very good draft, probably less than 25% of the players available at that pick have shown that they can contribute more than Crameri.

The price was right, he debate is really over whether Crameri has been a good recruit for us. I think the answer is pretty firmly yes, despite the lack of output the last season and a half. And I don't even rate Crameri that highly.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Crammers gone for the year. Is that it for him in red, white and blue?

[bulldogtragic]

Crammers gone for the year. Is that it for him in red, white and blue?

Is it the hip putting him out?

[AndrewP6]

Is it the hip putting him out?

Yep, worse than was initially thought.

[bulldogtragic]

Yep, worse than was initially thought.

Ouch. To the original question, Prudden, Smith & Smith have been looked after with the best part of two years out. So I'd guess he was re-contracted, but it would have to be on little income if his body is not coming up after his suspension. Let him sue add this to lost income in his legal action.

Man I wish he took the deal. I'd hate to part with 26 in a strong draft for two years...

[1eyedog]

Crammers gone for the year. Is that it for him in red, white and blue?

Why would you say that? Do you think he's not good enough? He''s only 28.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Why would you say that? Do you think he's not good enough? He''s only 28.

No I'd love to have him in the list. Was just in reference to the rumours circulating around his future with us

[strebla]

I am still happy with this trade as it really was a quality player wanting to join us. But more than that his leadership in our forward line has been sadly missed.

[Remi Moses]

Really harsh on stewie . Hope he comes back

[aker39]

I'm surprised it has taken so long for him to have surgery.
I spoke to someone after Round 2 who said his hip was so bad that he would struggle to play again unless he had surgery.

[Danny the snakeman]

Now out for rest of season.

[G-Mo77]

Is that the end of his time with us?

[1eyedog]

Is that the end of his time with us?

Would be astounded to learn that this is the case.

[bulldogtragic]

We could always talk up his injury, scare the hell out of all the other clubs as to body & mind, offer to rookie list him, rookie list and support him to get back, if he can: Gordon Legal add to his claim the losses so he recoups this money from Essendon in the end, not in our salary cap... Gordon Legal can invoice him after a successful result is obtained, as is practice...

Take the difference of his current-to-rookie salary, add it to our banked salary cap and the new CBA cap space and go hunting bigly at free agent and trade time. Trade up to two high enough picks, but them both on the table in addition to free agency options. Bring in mature top end talent during of dynasty attempt while we've got hugely talented kids pushing up, such as English.

For those who will say that's harsh on Stew, he's had two years out now and questions about what value to offer have to be circumspect. You can't re-sign all the kids, all the guns and bring in guns if you're throwing multiple years and good money at an older player with a year out of the system completely and another year out with injury. You have to give and take, and if he's flying on the rookie list he obviously will get upgraded and a pay rise with it. But he still has legal recourse for losses against Essendon to claw some/all back, leaving our cap alone and them funding the losses of their doping offences.

[stefoid]

So when and how did this serious hip injury occur?

[jeemak]

It might be degenerative Stefoid.

He may have been going in for surgery at the end of last year or a bit sooner if he didn't get suspended.

[Happy Days]

So when and how did this serious hip injury occur?

When he was running away from the ASADA testers and/or security at Crown.

[jeemak]

When he was running away from the ASADA testers and/or security at Crown.

You scallywag.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Such bad luck for Stewie and us. He lifted our prospects from the depths when he arrived and now he has lost two full seaons. At least this means less wear and tear on his body and leaves hope he is yet to play his best footbal for us. A unique player with near elite running ability yet big bodied, good mark and kick. He is well suited to our game style and is a big miss to this side. He is a consistent goal kicker.

[bulldogtragic]

The Bevo presser snippet on the Ch7 coverage just now indicated that we want to work with him about staying on by the end of the year. With him turning 30 next year, with the bad hip, I wonder if that grab indicates we want to be rookie listing him if it will take us until the end of the year?

[The Doctor]

I would be very surprised to see Crameri in a Bulldog jumper next year

[jeemak]

I would be very surprised to see Crameri in a Bulldog jumper next year

Why Doc?

[bornadog]

I would be very surprised to see Crameri in a Bulldog jumper next year

Not what Bevo said in his press conference yesterday.

[1eyedog]

Crammers will get an additional two years at a reduced price point. Will be sorted out over the next month. My source is a guy who will likely be sitting with him at the game today, if he attends.