Clearances in 2008

[Dry Rot]

Over the last couple of seasons, I couldn't figure out whether our poor clearance record (NB from ruck contests) was due to our ruckmen or our midfielders.

Why have we been so poor and how much will the recruitment of Hudson change this? The midfielders won't have the ruckman excuse this season.

Hopefully more heavily built players and greater fitness won't hurt either.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Over the last couple of seasons, I couldn't figure out whether our poor clearance record (NB from ruck contests) was due to our ruckmen or our midfielders.

Why have we been so poor and how much will the recruitment of Hudson change this? The midfielders won't have the ruckman excuse this season.

Hopefully more heavily built players and greater fitness won't hurt either.

We had a fantastic clearance record when Wynd and Darcy were rucking regardless of who was in the centre square with them (granted Liberatore had plenty to do with it as well).

Ruckmen are very important.

[aker39]

We had a fantastic clearance record when Wynd and Darcy were rucking regardless of who was in the centre square with them (granted Liberatore had plenty to do with it as well).

Ruckmen are very important.


Until they changed the rule that stopped Darcy from being able to grab the ball out of the ruck.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Hudson should make a difference, but we just haven't had enough hard bodied desperados in the mix.

Longer term I am hoping that Ward, Wood, and Reid are cut from that cloth and can in time help sort this problem out.

[hujsh]

Until they changed the rule that stopped Darcy from being able to grab the ball out of the ruck.

Was that rule changed that recently?
I would have thought if you grabbed the ball out of the ruck you would just get tackled

[LostDoggy]

Personally i think its more to do with our midfielders then our rucks. I know this is against the normal train of thought around here but i've thought this for a while. Our mids seem very stagnant at bounces. Cross, West and Boyd dish off tiny handballs instead of trying to run through people and penetrate when they get the ball in a pack. Cooney is our best bet here, and if Griffen can get going he'll add to this as well.

Our clearances will improve this year, but its not because of Hudson's ruck/tap work, it will because he gets down and dirty effectively adding another midfielder to the party.

[The Coon Dog]

Was that rule changed that recently?
I would have thought if you grabbed the ball out of the ruck you would just get tackled
And if you are tackled, whether it's a billisecond after you grab it & fail to dispose of it correctly, it's BAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!

Grabbing the ball straight from the ruck constitutes prior opportunity.

[aker39]

Was that rule changed that recently?
I would have thought if you grabbed the ball out of the ruck you would just get tackled


Darcy perfected the art of grabbing the ball out of the ruck, and under the old rule, all he had to do was MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO DISPOSE OF THE BALL, so there was really nothing to lose. He either got a centre clearance or the ball was held in, or the ball fell to the ground and pack formed, causing another bounce.

As TCD says, once the rule was changed, making an attempt to dispose of the ball was not good enough, he had to ACTUALLY dispose of the ball. Clubs cottoned on, and started tackling him, hence the tactic became redundant.

Matthew Primus was another player that did it, but I think we were effected most by that rule change then anyone else.

I'm not sure when the rule change came in, but I'm thinking early 2000's.

[always right]

Darcy perfected the art of grabbing the ball out of the ruck, and under the old rule, all he had to do was MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO DISPOSE OF THE BALL, so there was really nothing to lose. He either got a centre clearance or the ball was held in, or the ball fell to the ground and pack formed, causing another bounce.

As TCD says, once the rule was changed, making an attempt to dispose of the ball was not good enough, he had to ACTUALLY dispose of the ball. Clubs cottoned on, and started tackling him, hence the tactic became redundant.

Matthew Primus was another player that did it, but I think we were effected most by that rule change then anyone else.

I'm not sure when the rule change came in, but I'm thinking early 2000's.


I'm not sure that's exactly right. My recollection is that Darcy still did this successfully until he copped the knee injuries. I don't think the rule ever stopped him grabbing the ball out of the ruck fairly regularly....he just simply wasn't on the field to do it anymore.:)

[hujsh]

Darce still manged to have that really good year where he was the MVP with that rule

[LostDoggy]

Personally i think its more to do with our midfielders then our rucks. I know this is against the normal train of thought around here but i've thought this for a while. Our mids seem very stagnant at bounces. Cross, West and Boyd dish off tiny handballs instead of trying to run through people and penetrate when they get the ball in a pack. Cooney is our best bet here, and if Griffen can get going he'll add to this as well.

Our clearances will improve this year, but its not because of Hudson's ruck/tap work, it will because he gets down and dirty effectively adding another midfielder to the party.

Nail.Hit.Head

This was the main thing i saw when we played the Hawks, Mitchell in particular. He gathered the ball similar to West but took players on with his pace and strength and ran into space. Now West doesnt have the same skill or pace as Mitchell but they play a very similar game.

[Mofra]

Hudson was no 2 at Adelaide for clearances, so at stoppages he is virtually another midfielder (his second efforts make him a good ruckman, not any nautural talent). This will have a large impact opn the group, it is virtually another ste of hands from last year.

FWIW the interpretation seems to be simply being tackled if you grab the ball from the ruck is holding the ball. The umpires have been red hot on this for years.

[bornadog]

And if you are tackled, whether it's a billisecond after you grab it & fail to dispose of it correctly, it's BAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!

Grabbing the ball straight from the ruck constitutes prior opportunity.

Which is the biggest hog wash of all time and I just don't agree with it. If that is the case, every moment in the game when you grab the ball you have prior opportunity, but in non ruck contests you have a few seconds to dispose the ball before being pinged for holding the ball.

[bornadog]

Nail.Hit.Head

This was the main thing i saw when we played the Hawks, Mitchell in particular. He gathered the ball similar to West but took players on with his pace and strength and ran into space. Now West doesnt have the same skill or pace as Mitchell but they play a very similar game.

Yes effective clearances is what we are after.

[hujsh]

Which is the biggest hog wash of all time and I just don't agree with it. If that is the case, every moment in the game when you grab the ball you have prior opportunity, but in non ruck contests you have a few seconds to dispose the ball before being pinged for holding the ball.

I don't mind that rule and i believe i have a neutral view as i don't remember it coming in.

I would rather see two ruckmen going to tap the ball to a midfielder runnung past than two ruckmen going up as if it was a marking contest.

It also makes it surprising when ruckmen do grab the ball from the ruck

[dog town]

Personally i think its more to do with our midfielders then our rucks. I know this is against the normal train of thought around here but i've thought this for a while. Our mids seem very stagnant at bounces. Cross, West and Boyd dish off tiny handballs instead of trying to run through people and penetrate when they get the ball in a pack. Cooney is our best bet here, and if Griffen can get going he'll add to this as well.

Our clearances will improve this year, but its not because of Hudson's ruck/tap work, it will because he gets down and dirty effectively adding another midfielder to the party.
Thats not the fault of those 3 players though. They are probably just a bit similar thats all. The best in close players slow down to get the ball and are prepared to recieve punishment. These guys are the bravest players on the ground IMO. You do need a balance though and thats why Crossy was playing on the wing a little bit before he got injured. Cooney isn't quite in that barn storming mould either but I agree he is closer to that category.

[LostDoggy]

Ruckmen are very important.

Fully agree but I now think more than ever they also need to add some value around the ground as well. Thats why the likes of Cox are just so valuable to a team. He's great in the centre square and up forward but he almost becomes and extra running player when the teams needs him to as well.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Fully agree but I now think more than ever they also need to add some value around the ground as well. Thats why the likes of Cox are just so valuable to a team. He's great in the centre square and up forward but he almost becomes and extra running player when the teams needs him to as well.

Does that spell the end for Street in your eyes then?

[Cyberdoggie]

I don't mind that rule and i believe i have a neutral view as i don't remember it coming in.

I would rather see two ruckmen going to tap the ball to a midfielder runnung past than two ruckmen going up as if it was a marking contest.

It also makes it surprising when ruckmen do grab the ball from the ruck


from memory it came in just before he did his knee, probably the season before.


It worked for darcy because he wasn't a very good jump, and not particularly tall but he was the best at positioning his body in relation to the other ruckman. He would put himself in the right spot to nulify the other ruckman while knowing exactly where the ball was in the air, he would then grab it and use his mobility to clear the ball or get it to the onballers.

Since then we have sucked in the ruck and it's both because peter street is a terrible tap ruckman who hits it where ever he feels like as well as having no physical presence at all, and our midfielders also lack strength.

In general we get out muscled and out smarted time after time.

That should change this year with hudson, he was sensational in the elimination final loss to hawthorn against campbell and co. If he can play like that, i'll be a happy man.

[mjp]

Which is the biggest hog wash of all time and I just don't agree with it. If that is the case, every moment in the game when you grab the ball you have prior opportunity, but in non ruck contests you have a few seconds to dispose the ball before being pinged for holding the ball.

Nope. Great rule. Ruckman used to get away with murder at ruck contests when I was playing, always getting away with grabbing the ball under the 'no prior opportunity' rule. They know they are in a contest. They know that they are big, tall and stupid and their only job is to hit it to the little blokes and then smack into someone...yet too many of them used to try and play above their station by grabbing hold of the footy...

Just jump up, knee your opponent in the guts and hit the ball down...that is all they have to do.

[Sockeye Salmon]

Nope. Great rule. Ruckman used to get away with murder at ruck contests when I was playing, always getting away with grabbing the ball under the 'no prior opportunity' rule. They know they are in a contest. They know that they are big, tall and stupid and their only job is to hit it to the little blokes and then smack into someone...yet too many of them used to try and play above their station by grabbing hold of the footy...

Just jump up, knee your opponent in the guts and hit the ball down...that is all they have to do.

The problem with the way the rule was, is that it was a no risk play for the ruckman - jump up, grab it, pass it off. If someone grabbed you with it, no problem, ball it up again. And again. And again. And again if necessary.

I disagree with most of the rule changes over the last 10 years but this one is actually right.

[Go_Dogs]

The problem with the way the rule was, is that it was a no risk play for the ruckman - jump up, grab it, pass it off. If someone grabbed you with it, no problem, ball it up again. And again. And again. And again if necessary.

I disagree with most of the rule changes over the last 10 years but this one is actually right.

Similar to the deliberate out of bounds rule, when implemented correctly. The grabbing from the ruck contest rule again is inconsistent at times. Sometimes seemingly a touch will qualify as holding the ball, whereas other times they actually need to apply a strong tackle. The idea is right however, for the exact point you make.

[LostDoggy]

Does that spell the end for Street in your eyes then?

I am not anti or pro Minson and or Street and if either player is in form they should partner Hudson. Street is not the overall package that Cox is, nor is Minson for that matter, but if he can provide a good contest in the middle and help out the back line then I can see him playing a role for us.

If neither Street or Minson are in form Skipper is also an option to support Hudson. I believe that Skipper could be a decent backup for a quality ruckman.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I am not anti or pro Minson and or Street and if either player is in form they should partner Hudson. Street is not the overall package that Cox is, nor is Minson for that matter, but if he can provide a good contest in the middle and help out the back line then I can see him playing a role for us.

If neither Street or Minson are in form Skipper is also an option to support Hudson. I believe that Skipper could be a decent backup for a quality ruckman.

I've been thinking with Minson playing forward and still rehabbing his back, that Street and Skipper still have the chance to be very important players in our 08 season.

I've always been one that has believed Street could be a good AFL player. He's got good skills, he just has to impose himself on the game more, so that he can use them more often.

Hopefully Skipper can have a bit better luck this year. He looks to have really dedicated himself and the physical transformation over the past 2 years is pretty pronounced. For a guy that didn't get a run until late in 07 he definitely put his best foot forward which I think is a credit to his improved maturity.