If J.J. decides to leave how do we deal

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

At the start of the year i never considered it a possibility he was going to leave. As the year progresses i am less certain.

Should it come to pass that other offers are too attractive for him to pass up, how do we progress so that we get a fair outcome? What is a fair outcome?

He has a skill set that is hard to replace and one that should be highly valued to any suitors.

What leverage do we have to ensure we don't end up over a barrel like we were with Hamling's trade?

If push comes to shove and we are offered a poor deal by say a mid to high ladder finishing West Coast or even Freo, would be put pressure on all parties by threatening to let him go in the preseason draft?

As a reigning Norm Smith medallist and in his footballing prime he surely must be worth a top ten pick at the very least.
The problem is a top ten pick still doesn't compensate us for what we lose in terms of his importance to us on the field.
Interested in how folks here would frame a deal.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm pretty confident he's staying, despite him having a manager who appears out of his depth.

That said, I'd target a very good player in a straight swap (plus a pick if it's a good, but lesser player) on their list or target another good player elsewhere (ie Josh Kelly) and look for a three way trade.

[boydogs]

First rounder and Duggan/Crozier

[soupman]

I'd be targeting Zac Jones in a three way trade.

He is as quick as JJ, and breaks the lines in a similar fashion. Good kick, powerful build and tough, and unlike JJ plays more midfield which suits us as ours is a touch slow.

I'd imagine from our pov it would effectively be JJ for Jones, I don't think there is enough of a difference in value to require draft picks.

[1eyedog]

Jones is not as explosive I don't think. Both attacking but I think you'd need to weigh up JJ's goal kicking ability over Jones' hardness.

[The Pie Man]

Keep hearing Essendon are the main suitor at this stage - how about Hooker and their 1st round draft pick?

[soupman]

Jones is not as explosive I don't think. Both attacking but I think you'd need to weigh up JJ's goal kicking ability over Jones' hardness.

Jones is pretty explosive. I don't think he'd be much different to jjs pace. He has also kicked 5 goals this year. He isn't like for like but he would be a good get and would bring similiar things to the team.

[always right]

Keep hearing Essendon are the main suitor at this stage - how about Hooker and their 1st round draft pick?
Hooker is on $800k per year for five years. Are you happy for us to pick this up? I'm not.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Keep hearing Essendon are the main suitor at this stage - how about Hooker and their 1st round draft pick?

Where are the Bombers getting all of this coin from? Aren't they about to sign Daniher to a $2m deal?...and we all have suspicions as to how much Hurley cost

[Rocket Science]

Is 'kick the dog' an acceptable answer?

*apologies to dogs everywhere*

I don't even want to fathom this. He's one of us. Pay the lad. Sign the lad!

[always right]

I'd be targeting Zac Jones in a three way trade.

He is as quick as JJ, and breaks the lines in a similar fashion. Good kick, powerful build and tough, and unlike JJ plays more midfield which suits us as ours is a touch slow.

I'd imagine from our pov it would effectively be JJ for Jones, I don't think there is enough of a difference in value to require draft picks.

Would consider Jones and a second round draft pick. You're comparing a Jones with a Norm Smith medallist FFS.

[Ozza]

Where are the Bombers getting all of this coin from? Aren't they about to sign Daniher to a $2m deal?...and we all have suspicions as to how much Hurley cost

$2M over 3 years for Daniher. Given the new salary cap....he's signed on for a bargain for Essendon.

[Doc26]

First rounder and Duggan/Crozier

If West Coast, I'd like to include Tom Barrass in the discussion.

[LostDoggy]

Is 'kick the dog' an acceptable answer?

*apologies to dogs everywhere*

I don't even want to fathom this. He's one of us. Pay the lad. Sign the lad!

Agree, 'Pay zat man heez monay'.

[1eyedog]

We can't just pay every player what they want.

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

Yes we can we call them "Ambassadors" for Visy, Cotton On etc.

[GVGjr]

I'm normally someone who really wants us to fight to maintain players with potential upside and as good as JJ has been I think he can still become and even better footballer. That being said, I just think we need to see how this plays out and if he doesn't want to be at the club because another club is willing to pay him more then I'm sort of OK with him going. We know our club will put together the best offer they can in a responsible manner and if he is asking too much then so be it.

I can recall a level of panic on here when the Crameri deal was being played out, many were concerned we would overpay and get ripped off but in the end we got the player we wanted and kept our Bontempelli pick. To that end I have confidence that we will handle this well.

I would look for a first round pick as compensation and depending on the other club a potential 2nd round upgrade might not be out of the question. We might even consider a Shane Biggs type player that is struggling to get a game but we have a specific role for but a first round pick is my preferred option.

If JJ walks away from what will be a substantial offer then we will be cashed up and become a serious Free Agent player that will test the theory if we are now becoming a destination club.

JJ has a unique set of skills that sets him apart from most other players so we should do everything we can but if doesn't want to buy in then we move on.

[Rocket Science]

Does anyone remember how much fun it was trying to vacate our defensive-fifty with the ball last year while JJ was sidelined?

By all means negotiate sensibly but lest we're confident of laying our hands on a like-for-like replacement, just pay the bloke commensurate with someone who's in their club's top five most valuable players, cause that's what he is.

Save the hardball for blokes we actually can replace.

[Twodogs]

Does anyone remember how much fun it was trying to vacate our defensive-fifty with the ball last year while JJ was sidelined?

By all means negotiate sensibly but lest we're confident of laying our hands on a like-for-like replacement, just pay the bloke commensurate with someone who's in their club's top five most valuable players, cause that's what he is.

Save the hardball for blokes we actually can replace.


Yep, hes a silk premiership winning machine and isn't 25 yet. We'd be insane to let him go anywhere else.


Where are the Bombers getting all of this coin from? Aren't they about to sign Daniher to a $2m deal?...and we all have suspicions as to how much Hurley cost


Essendon are in lalaland if they think that their blatant salary cap cheating is going to go unnoticed.

[bulldogtragic]

Essendon are in lalaland if they think that their blatant salary cap cheating is going to go unnoticed.

Unnoticed by who? Everyone knows it, no less the AFEL and their 'integrity' unit. I'd love the ATO to audit all the Essendon players to ensure they're declaring what Essendon are declaring. I'd bet a heap that the amount being declared by Essendon as TPPs doesn't equate to the accumulation of the returns lodged this year.

[Twodogs]

Unnoticed by who? Everyone knows it, no less the AFEL and their 'integrity' unit. I'd love the ATO to audit all the Essendon players to ensure they're declaring what Essendon are declaring. I'd bet a heap that the amount being declared by Essendon as TPPs doesn't equate to the accumulation of the returns lodged this year.


There's a hungry journo out there just waiting to write this story so they can make a career.

Do you truly think that Essendon will get away with cheating the salary cap the way they are? Nobody was making a fuss about peptides at Essendon until March 2013 but we all knew what they were up to.

[bulldogtragic]

There's a hungry journo out there just waiting to write this story so they can make a career.

Do you truly think that Essendon will get away with cheating the salary cap the way they are? Nobody was making a fuss about peptides at Essendon until March 2013 but we all knew what they were up to.

Bloody oath they'll get away with it, if no government department gets involved. The AFEL tribunal cleared Essendon. The whacks came via ASADA (Fed Govt) and WorkSafe (State Govt). The AFEL if forced to will say, 'we looked into the TPP and there's no issues whatsoever'. However, if government agencies from a tax perspective start digging around regarding income taxes, payroll taxes etc. then the AFEL can't do a thing other than to hope everything looks clean. Or, that Essendon have funnelled excess TPP monetise through private personal injury settlements which are tax free for the players/former players. That might account for TPP irregularities, and then using armies of lawyers to try to get around the wording of the TPP rules to argue such monies should not be included in the TPP. That's all assuming outside scrutiny comes.

The AFEL have a 'big club' ruining marquee games, having lower average crowds etc. The AFEL want them back on their feet as quick as they can for their own revenue, look at their draft penalties for example. They really didn't get hit hard enough with the voices of Carlton sooks in their ears blaming their current predicament now (still) on the AFEL being too hard on them...

[Twodogs]

The Austalian Tax Office. Heh! Good one.

You're a funny man.

[westbulldog]

good defenders worth a look ? - McStay (Bris 21yo) McDonald (Melb 24yo) Jones (Syd 22yo)

[bulldogtragic]

I've been playing with this like Rubix cube with all the comments in this thread. On the assumption (I don't see happening) JJ nominates Fremantle.

Fremantle look like having pick 6 this year, so Nat Fyfe compo could be pick 7.

Dogs save $550,000 from JJ leaving, adding that to the cash that was destined for Hurley, so about $1,300,000 per year. So the Dogs can afford Nat Fyfe.

So we need to incentivise Freo to let Fyfe go, as well as them getting AFL FA compo. First 5 years on $1.2 or $1.3 gets them pick 7. So we then trade JJ for a lesser player we have interest in, maybe a Crozier type. Then as we may need draft points next year for West &/or Khamis, we swap some picks around to make it more like a legit trade, to really push the FA rules to the limit.

Freo: In: Pick 7, JJ (with a shitload of salary cap left over to trade with), 2nd & 3rd round draft order improvement 2017 (6-10 upgrades in both rounds)
Dogs: In: Fyfe, Crozier type, 2nd & 3rd draft order improvement 2018 (smaller gap expected)

But it only works if both players and clubs want to only deal with each other.

[Twodogs]

Id rather keep JJ than get Fyfe.

[jeemak]

Id rather keep JJ than get Fyfe.

I'd use his value to get early draft choices over taking Fyfe. We're beyond a one man team, and we have Bont anyway.

Plus, we're a bit away from rounding out the list plan in terms of clean users. Fyfe won't bring that to us.

[bulldogtragic]

Id rather keep JJ than get Fyfe.

I personally feel 95% we keep JJ, and therefore aren't in the running to get Fyfe. The above was predicated on him wanting/walking out. To me the delay is about looking at the CBA rise and dealing with a manager, who I won't say anything positive about.

[bulldogtragic]

The interesting thing is 'if' JJ left what we'd want. Dal is on the record publicly that this is not a strong draft, nor a deep draft. Would we want draft picks, or players. My guess would be players, either from a WA club or bringing in a third club (GWS, Kelly or GCS, May).

[westdog54]

The interesting thing is 'if' JJ left what we'd want. Dal is on the record publicly that this is not a strong draft, nor a deep draft. Would we want draft picks, or players. My guess would be players, either from a WA club or bringing in a third club (GWS, Kelly or GCS, May).

Combination of players and/or Futures?

[bulldogtragic]

Combination of players and/or Futures?

Good call. By the end of the champs we will have had a look at West & Khamis as bottom agers in the best underage footy comp. if West continues on trend (top end) and Khamis starts to look like being ok too, then future/2018 draft points will make life a lot easier next year.

[Twodogs]

I personally feel 95% we keep JJ, and therefore aren't in the running to get Fyfe. The above was predicated on him wanting/walking out. To me the delay is about looking at the CBA rise and dealing with a manager, who I won't say anything positive about.


I'm pretty confident he's staying, despite him having a manager who appears out of his depth.

That said, I'd target a very good player in a straight swap (plus a pick if it's a good, but lesser player) on their list or target another good player elsewhere (ie Josh Kelly) and look for a three way trade.


I'm pretty confident he will stay too.

Apropos of nothing I saw Jmac on the telecast sitting by himself with a clipboard intently watching the game last night. I wonder if he had a special eye on anyone in particular?

[comrade]

I'm pretty confident he will stay too.

Apropos of nothing I saw Jmac on the telecast sitting by himself with a clipboard intently watching the game last night. I wonder if he had a special eye on anyone in particular?

The Geelong game?

[Twodogs]

The Geelong game?


I'm pretty certain it was the Geelong game. I can't remember 100%. I saw all of both games (I live with a fanatical 18 year old. There's a oral test at the end of each game to make sure I was paying attention, at least I think that's what the barrage of questions is) and they have sort of blended in with each other.

[Remi Moses]

Pretty sure it was the port game . Alzheimer's two? ;)

[Twodogs]

Pretty sure it was the port game . Alzheimer's two? ;)

More than likely Rem. Now that I think about it Adelaide Oval rings a bell in my memory.

[S Coast Simon]

I believe he will stay just trying to get as much as possible after the CBA is decided. You can bet his manager is telling him to hold out for more. The reality is players can always get more at another club if that's what they want. To be in a strong team playing finals you have to play for less that's how hawks and Brisbane made it for so long at the top. I have noticed he is going hard for the Brownlow as well with the hairdo.

[jeemak]

I believe he will stay just trying to get as much as possible after the CBA is decided. You can bet his manager is telling him to hold out for more. The reality is players can always get more at another club if that's what they want. To be in a strong team playing finals you have to play for less that's how hawks and Brisbane made it for so long at the top. I have noticed he is going hard for the Brownlow as well with the hairdo.

A lot's changed in the most recent few years in terms of player attitudes to moving. Ourselves and GWS will have a massive fight on our hands to counter the change towards player empowerment. I reckon he's playing elsewhere next year.

[GVGjr]

After last years fire sale on many players how do we accurately calculate JJ's value?
For example last year Hamling essentially went for pick 35

I know we all rate JJ highly and I don't want to lose him but unless there is a bidding war with a couple of club we could have limited options. I also feel that the AFL world is changing with players chasing money harder than before making it harder to achieve win win outcomes.

I we were to lose him I think he is a genuine first round draft pick player. I also feel there should be something else coming back to us but after last year, it's very hard to gauge what should be market value.

[1eyedog]

After last years fire sale on many players how do we accurately calculate JJ's value?
For example last year Hamling essentially went for pick 35

I know we all rate JJ highly and I don't want to lose him but unless there is a bidding war with a couple of club we could have limited options. I also feel that the AFL world is changing with players chasing money harder than before making it harder to achieve win win outcomes.

I we were to lose him I think he is a genuine first round draft pick player. I also feel there should be something else coming back to us but after last year, it's very hard to gauge what should be market value.

The best outcome for us would be for a few clubs to be involved and I think this is likely given his skill set. Essendon, West Choke and someone else going all in would be juicy.

Given the cash that is / will be put in front him prior to him making a decision I will say he'd be mad not to go. Especially if we win the flag again. If he helps us win another one this year I won't be too fussed.

[comrade]

Is there ever really a bidding war these days? It's not like buying a house, because the house can't nominate and say 'I only want to be purchased by that person'. Players can and do, all the time. And once they nominate a club, the value diminishes. It's a broken part of the player movement system.

[bulldogtragic]

Is there ever really a bidding war these days? It's not like buying a house, because the house can't nominate and say 'I only want to be purchased by that person'. Players can and do, all the time. And once they nominate a club, the value diminishes. It's a broken part of the player movement system.

It depends on if he's considered in the camp of Treloar, OMeara quality (2 great picks) or rather Tom Mitchell, Prestia, McCarthy Henderson or any of the Brisbane top draftees who quit (1st rounder). We can still get ok value, it's a matter of having multiple options for us to pull the trigger on. Be it a three club trade, or a first rounder or upgrade plus second rounder and then packaging them up to aggressively pursue numerous trade targets. I want and think he will stay, but if he leaves it should open up some exciting options for us.

[1eyedog]

Id rather keep JJ than get Fyfe.

I wouldn't no way!

[Eastdog]

Operation keep JJ

If he decides to leave we better get a good deal. JJ is highly valued now.

[S Coast Simon]

Is there a greater medal than a norm smith medal. I personally think it would be the be better than a Brownlow as it is usually given to a premiership winning player. If you are going to poach a norm smith medalist you would surely have to pay big time. I don't think he is going just his manager going for the throat

[Danny the snakeman]

Especially if we win the flag again. If he helps us win another one this year I won't be too fussed.

If we win again this year he has my full blessing to leave if he wants, otherwise JJ please stay.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

From the outset let me state JJ is not the sole factor for our malaise.
However his management's contract posturing has contributed to a fraying of the fabric of our team.
We won last year, not through pure skill, but on the back of a take no prisoner, Band of Brother's-esque spririt. The 'I'll give everything I've got and then some' spirit.

The fact JJ, by proxy through his management, is seeking to exploit success for a pure dollar outcome for himself must be doing damage to that spirit.
For mine the club needs to make a call.
He is either in, now, or else the team comes first and we make the call for him to go.

It's that stark a choice.

The club now needs to seek to restore that altruistic, pure trust in the group by calling on JJ to either commit to the ideals that his personal success came on the back of, or call it and go public in saying we are going to move him on.

Tonight's performance was not that of a club who is united in spirit.
Moreover JJ is kidding himself if he thinks he is worth the coin his manager is seeking for him.

[jeemak]

Unfortunately JJ is worth what the market is willing to pay, and that's much more than we're willing or able to most likely.

I appreciate what you're saying with the rest of your post.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Unfortunately JJ is worth what the market is willing to pay, and that's much more than we're willing or able to most likely.

I appreciate what you're saying with the rest of your post.

Absolutely Jeemak, and that's why I think it might be best for the club to get on the front foot here. You want the coin, great, lets help you facilitate that; because we're going to reinforce and highlight the ethos that is driving those in our club who have committed for less than market value to maintain the team spirit.

I love JJ's story, I love what he helped us achieved. But it's bordering on ironic that his management's posturing over his contract is in my opinion contributing to an unweaving of the very fabric of the team first ethos that both gave us the ultimate success and in doing so elevated his market value.

[Remi Moses]

From the outset let me state JJ is not the sole factor for our malaise.
However his management's contract posturing has contributed to a fraying of the fabric of our team.
We won last year, not through pure skill, but on the back of a take no prisoner, Band of Brother's-esque spririt. The 'I'll give everything I've got and then some' spirit.

The fact JJ, by proxy through his management, is seeking to exploit success for a pure dollar outcome for himself must be doing damage to that spirit.
For mine the club needs to make a call.
He is either in, now, or else the team comes first and we make the call for him to go.

It's that stark a choice.

The club now needs to seek to restore that altruistic, pure trust in the group by calling on JJ to either commit to the ideals that his personal success came on the back of, or call it and go public in saying we are going to move him on.

Tonight's performance was not that of a club who is united in spirit.
Moreover JJ is kidding himself if he thinks he is worth the coin his manager is seeking for him.
How do you explain Dustin Martin and Kelly ? Both performing . This is the modern era,it leaves a crap taste in your mouth, but it's how the game is going . He's manager's posturing and poor performance is going to invariably put pressure on himself . The balls in his court, simple

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

How do you explain Dustin Martin and Kelly ? Both performing . This is the modern era,it leaves a crap taste in your mouth, but it's how the game is going . He's manager's posturing and poor performance is going to invariably put pressure on himself . The balls in his court, simple

Again I agree. Quite simply, the Dusty and Kelly situation highlights why I think JJ is on the cusp of making a very poor footall decision, if not a bad financial one. He is a half back flanker with speed. He is not in the class of a Dusty or Kelly, and if someone is willing to treat him contractually like he is, then lets let them make that mistake.

That's precisely why I think he's both a) not worth the value that is being bandied about and b) his contract posturing is a factor in a decay of the fabric of our success. So let's show, as a club, that the team is above the individual, and either give him one final chance to sign or else, be proactive and work to affect a deal that helps us. If it's about money, and it appears it is, then we should, if he's not willing to sign, work to facilitate that outcome for him, and make sure we get value in return, as well as show the rest of the team we will show unwavering support for a team first approach to contracts.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

And please excuse me for my verbosity and inarticulateness . I made a poor decision to crack a bottle of red at qtr time, and I'm a bottle down now. That's not completely JJ's fault, but he didn't help!

[jeemak]

And please excuse me for my verbosity and inarticulateness . I made a poor decision to crack a bottle of red at qtr time, and I'm a bottle down now. That's not completely JJ's fault, but he didn't help!

Upside is you're going to forget the detail of the game easier than you might have had you not cracked that bottle.

[Avoid the rush]

How do you explain Dustin Martin and Kelly ? Both performing . This is the modern era,it leaves a crap taste in your mouth, but it's how the game is going . He's manager's posturing and poor performance is going to invariably put pressure on himself . The balls in his court, simple

For sure!! But both aforementioned players (on reflection, might have been quicker to print their names, rather than say aforementioned, not even sure if that's how you spell aforementioned){bugger now I've done brackets} ((and double brackets))...shit shit what's my point. Oh yeah both have had ordinary games this year (Sorry Brackets again, but Dusty was av. against the Swans; and JJ has had maybe two ordinary games. Sure, his manager is a tosser and has only ONE client and is desperate to make a big impression, not unlike another past manager who has only one ex-player and is trying to keep his eye in!!!!Sorry about that Mr. Jess. I reckon JJ will stay and we will still recruit a high profile backman and in BEVO I trust.....

[bulldogtragic]

I wonder who Coach Scott has for JJ this week? Is Lindsay Thomas in line for a call up?

[azabob]

I wonder who Coach Scott has for JJ this week? Is Lindsay Thomas in line for a call up?

You haven't heard? In Thomas return from suspension in the VFL he was reported and suspended for one week!! By reports lucky to only get one.

[westdog54]

You haven't heard? In Thomas return from suspension in the VFL he was reported and suspended for one week!! By reports lucky to only get one.

VERY lucky to get only one, it was a ridiculous piece of play.

[bulldogsfight]

Maybe the club has decided not to sign him
Not jj deciding to stay
May solve a few problems

[bulldogtragic]

Maybe the club has decided not to sign him
Not jj deciding to stay
May solve a few problems

Said something similar. If he nets a huge trade return, and frees up even more cap to recruit multiple key players. It's an interesting thing to think about, ala Hwthorn letting Williams, Kennedy & McGlynn go to get Burgoyne & Gibson, and draft too.

[bulldogtragic]

You haven't heard? In Thomas return from suspension in the VFL he was reported and suspended for one week!! By reports lucky to only get one.

I try not to listen to anything involving him. North still have another year of him contracted don't they?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Said something similar. If he nets a huge trade return, and frees up even more cap to recruit multiple key players. It's an interesting thing to think about, ala Hwthorn letting Williams, Kennedy & McGlynn go to get Burgoyne & Gibson, and draft too.

Not going to be as easy to manouver ala Hawks this off season zi suspect. With the new CBA coming into effect we're about to be competing in a potentially hyper-inflated marketplace and coupled with some big names out of contract and clubs with more money to throw around.
JMac and his team need to really use every ounce of their grey matter to work their magic in this environment.
Perhaps one of those options may be to keep our powder relstively dry this season when everyone else goes nuts, sign use our money to further extend core guys like Bont, Macrae, Stringer et al..to even longer deals and stave off any raids on them down the track.

[bulldogtragic]

Not going to be as easy to manouver ala Hawks this off season zi suspect. With the new CBA coming into effect we're about to be competing in a potentially hyper-inflated marketplace and coupled with some big names out of contract and clubs with more money to throw around.
JMac and his team need to really use every ounce of their grey matter to work their magic in this environment.
Perhaps one of those options may be to keep our powder relstively dry this season when everyone else goes nuts, sign use our money to further extend core guys like Bont, Macrae, Stringer et al..to even longer deals and stave off any raids on them down the track.

It's an interesting philosophical question. I'm of the view that if we can improve in 2018, as a team and as individual players, with the addition of two or three very good players, we can win the premiership in 2018. I think sitting the trade/FA period out, and going into a shallow draft may limit us winning it in 2018 and possibly even longer. So I see this is a pivotal period, so I'm in the go all out and get elite, mature talent on pricy, but responsible offers.

[bulldogtragic]

Duplicate.

[westdog54]

If JJ's manager had a clue what he was doing, he'd have worked out the following today:

The new EB has eliminated 'Restricted Free Agency'.

This means that in two seasons time, JJ can walk to whoever he likes for whatever he likes, without the messy detail of having to work out a trade.

When that day comes he will make his client and himself an absolute truck load of money.

He should be encouraging JJ to stay on for the two years and then auction his services in two years time.

What is happening at the moment is helping no one.

[bulldogtragic]

If JJ's manager had a clue what he was doing, he'd have worked out the following today:

The new EB has eliminated 'Restricted Free Agency'.

This means that in two seasons time, JJ can walk to whoever he likes for whatever he likes, without the messy detail of having to work out a trade.

When that day comes he will make his client and himself an absolute truck load of money.

He should be encouraging JJ to stay on for the two years and then auction his services in two years time.

What is happening at the moment is helping no one.

If you keep using facts and logic, people will start to think this manager is not any good and ask why the hell JJ is listening to him. Pfft... With your facts and logic.

[Dry Rot]

The new EB has eliminated 'Restricted Free Agency'.



Interesting. What has changed?

[bornadog]

Can we deal with GWS for Josh Kelly and they can have JJ?  BT what do we need to do here?

[bulldogtragic]

Can we deal with GWS for Josh Kelly and they can have JJ? *!BT what do we need to do here?

GWS said for two years they wanted Wolters from Freo. The bones would be JJ, Kelly & Wolters as three very good players. I'm sure all three clubs would make good cash offers to the players. But then there'd have to be more to make it happen.

Alternatively, we take Nat Fyfe. Freo get pick 7 compo. We trade JJ for a player and upgrade from pick 12 to pick 7 (& 30 into 25) Then trade GWS pick 7 & 25 for Kelly. Pick 40 or so from North can get thrown in to make life easier if needed.

My guess is we could have up to $2,500,000 if JJ quits. That'll cover paying Fyfe & Kelly, and a free agent KPD. Just a small draft presence which sounds likely anyway.

[bornadog]

GWS said for two years they wanted Wolters from Freo. The bones would be JJ, Kelly & Wolters as three very good players. I'm sure all three clubs would make good cash offers to the players. But then there'd have to be more to make it happen.

Alternatively, we take Nat Fyfe. Freo get pick 7 compo. We trade JJ for a player and upgrade from pick 12 to pick 7 (& 30 into 25) Then trade GWS pick 7 & 25 for Kelly. Pick 40 or so from North can get thrown in to make life easier if needed.

My guess is we could have up to $2,500,000 if JJ quits. That'll cover paying Fyfe & Kelly, and a free agent KPD. Just a small draft presence which sounds likely anyway.
ok make it happen :)

[josie]

Hi BT, Understood how we can get Kelly and that we can afford Kelly and Fyfe. How do we get Fyfe?

Amazing if we could have both and I would be prepared to lose JJ. Would we be endangering our ability to pay our A graders enough in coming few years?

[bulldogtragic]

ok make it happen :)

JJ's Perth based manager can make it happen... I'm sure he's a new Jerry McGuire revolutionary who can negotiate JJ into Freo and then try to help facilitate Dogs and Freo working the Free Agency deal. Then we just go to GWS with 7 & 25.

I still want JJ to stay, make no mistake. But if he quits he can get us upgraded into a top 10 pick (and a player) then it opens up top end player trading and a bigger salary cap spend again. JMac could turn the negative of him leaving into a massive positive, if the cards fall that way.

[Dry Rot]

JJ's Perth based manager can make it happen... I'm sure he's a new Jerry McGuire revolutionary who can negotiate JJ into Freo and then try to help facilitate Dogs and Freo working the Free Agency deal. Then we just go to GWS with 7 & 25.

I still want JJ to stay, make no mistake. But if he quits he can get us upgraded into a top 10 pick (and a player) then it opens up top end player trading and a bigger salary cap spend again. JMac could turn the negative of him leaving into a massive positive, if the cards fall that way.

I have no idea what JJ will do but if JJ does leave, I can't see us getting any more than a first rounder for him.

So if he did leave and went west, we'd be hoping he went to Freo and we'd get their say Pick 8. We'll probably finish bottom 6 the way we are going, so the best case scenario would be that we have say picks 6 (Dogs) and 8 (Freo JJ trade).

What is the best use we can put picks 6 and 8 to?

[bulldogtragic]

Hi BT, Understood how we can get Kelly and that we can afford Kelly and Fyfe. How do we get Fyfe?

Amazing if we could have both and I would be prepared to lose JJ. Would we be endangering our ability to pay our A graders enough in coming few years?

Fyfe is a free agent. He will have half a dozen or more clubs offering him over a million dollars a year. If we were in the group and we were prepared to pay him probably $1,200,000 a year for 5 years, and he accepted he could come to us. Fremantle would be compensated from the AFL, which would be a first round selection. If they finish with pick 6, their compensation would be pick 7 from the AFL. So it doesn't cost us anything other than cash.

As for affordability, the following is my guess work. Dalrymple confirmed that the Hurley cash is still about. That was rumoured by the media to be $800,000. The reported JJ number from us is about $600,000 ($1,400,000). Crameri's contract will be at least $150,000 lighter ($1,550,000). Then we move on/retire Boyd, Bob, Campbell, Honey, Hamilton $1,050,000 ($2,600,000 cap space). Take off Fyfe $1,200,000 & Kelly $800,000 ($2,000,000), a KPD free agent $600,000 ($2,600,000 cap used).

Then we have to recruit three draftees, so that takes us over. But that's then covered by a 20% rise in the salary cap, not all of which is surplus. Anything above and beyond that goes into resigning our 2018 guns like Stringer & Macrae. There are incremental increases in the CBA which should assist is making sure Bonts and others get the big bucks in 2019 and beyond (plus they'll be other retirements too like Morris, Cloke, Picken etc).

Peter Gordon said something recently along the lines of the new CBA and salary cap will see a lot more player movements. I'm not saying this will happen for us this year, but with free agency and the potential war chest of salary cap we would have if JJ quit, we could really think big.

[bulldogtragic]

I have no idea what JJ will do but if JJ does leave, I can't see us getting any more than a first rounder for him.

So if he did leave and went west, we'd be hoping he went to Freo and we'd get their say Pick 8. We'll probably finish bottom 6 the way we are going, so the best case scenario would be that we have say picks 6 (Dogs) and 8 (Freo JJ trade).

What is the best use we can put picks 6 and 8 to?

We are on the same line, but my assumptions on draft order were different. I was working of us in pick 12, getting a decent player like a Crozier or other, and then upgrading first and second rounders. If we finish below, then the outright pick option is probably best as you say.

I'm in the line of thinking that says let's launch an attack on the premiership in 2018. JJ leaving opens up a shitload of cap, so let's target a couple of elite mids and a KPD. In FA there's maybe Fyfe & Rockliff (and some KPDs), at trades there's maybe Kelly & May with old rumours of Ablett. JMac has done well to lock almost all the important ones away already this year, to limit exposure to the feeding frenzy. Imagine being JMac with the talent up for grabs, good picks to trade and a couple of million to go fishing with. Hopefully JJ stays, but the more I explore what we could do, the more I think that if we do it right, it could take us back to contending next year bigly.

[Dry Rot]

We are on the same line, but my assumptions on draft order were different. I was working of us in pick 12, getting a decent player like a Crozier or other, and then upgrading first and second rounders. If we finish below, then the outright pick option is probably best as you say.

I'm in the line of thinking that says let's launch an attack on the premiership in 2018. JJ leaving opens up a shitload of cap, so let's target a couple of elite mids and a KPD. In FA there's maybe Fyfe & Rockliff (and some KPDs), at trades there's maybe Kelly & May with old rumours of Ablett. JMac has done well to lock almost all the important ones away already this year, to limit exposure to the feeding frenzy. Imagine being JMac with the talent up for grabs, good picks to trade and a couple of million to go fishing with. Hopefully JJ stays, but the more I explore what we could do, the more I think that if we do it right, it could take us back to contending next year bigly.

I like your thinking, but I query aiming for a flag in 2018.

My best guess is that we snagged one well ahead of time (one step forward). A fair Giants fan on BF put it "You captured lightning in a bottle in 2016" and I think he is right.

Now we are about to leave to lose more than half our back line (Morris, Boyd, Murphy and possibly JJ) (two steps back); we lack speed and polish in the midfield; we have no forward line - Dickson, Cloke and Redpath are cooked, Stringer should go in the midfield.

We need to fill a lot of holes IMO.

[azabob]

Can we deal with GWS for Josh Kelly and they can have JJ? *!BT what do we need to do here?

I love how when any poster has a trade thought our first thought is to ask BT how to get it done!!

[azabob]

BT I'd prefer Hamling back over Fyfe.

[1eyedog]

Ah no.

[Twodogs]

BT I'd prefer Hamling back over Fyfe.

Yep. Me too.

[bornadog]

BT I'd prefer Hamling back over Fyfe.

Imagine Fyfe in the engine room with The Bont, Libba, Wallis, Dahl - wow

[Remi Moses]

I hope we're looking at Kelly . Not sure on Fyfe , reckon he's past his best ( the injuries have hurt him)
Lever also, let's reach for the stars .

[1eyedog]

I hope we're looking at Kelly . Not sure on Fyfe , reckon he's past his best ( the injuries have hurt him)
Lever also, let's reach for the stars .

Ridiculous he's 25.

Saying you'd have Hamling over Fyfe is crazy. Fyfe could go back and absolutely dominate to a level Hamling could only dream of.

[bulldogtragic]

Ridiculous he's 25.

Saying you'd have Hamling over Fyfe is crazy. Fyfe could go back and absolutely dominate to a level Hamling could only dream of.

It'd be a no brainer. And for no loss of player or draft picks. Add in good JJ trade return, 'if' he quits and we could net two genuine A grade mids (Fyfe via FA and one via trading of top picks) and using free agency to help us down back (McKenzie, Hansen, Reid, Schoenmakers, Trengrove etc). Then hope an effective small like Devon Smith could be prised away would be one hell of a trade period, and would have us premiership favourites. This is the year to go hard, because next year West & Khamis are up possibly draining our draft. The year after is Liberatore & Kellett. Again possibly draining our draft or ensuring we can't really trade high picks. It also could mean getting higher talent than we should be entitled to without FS/Academy, to top us up with talent.

If JJ's manager wants to make an impact in the industry, a good way would be working with Freo & Dogs on JJ for picks/player and bringing the parties together to also get Fyfe to the Dogs while he's in between the two clubs.

[Twodogs]

Ridiculous he's 25.

Saying you'd have Hamling over Fyfe is crazy. Fyfe could go back and absolutely dominate to a level Hamling could only dream of.

Kelvin Templeton was finished long before he was 25 and he was ten times the player Fyfe was. I'm very hesitant about paying a motza for a player who's had a couple of major leg injuries.

[1eyedog]

Kelvin Templeton was finished long before he was 25 and he was ten times the player Fyfe was. I'm very hesitant about paying a motza for a player who's had a couple of major leg injuries.

Unfortunately most AFL players have had injuries and doing a knee in 1982 is waaaay different than fracturing your leg in 2016. The possible return far outweighs the potential risk for mine. It outweighs it by a long way.

[bornadog]

Kelvin Templeton was finished long before he was 25 and he was ten times the player Fyfe was. I'm very hesitant about paying a motza for a player who's had a couple of major leg injuries.

No doubt if Kelvin was playing these days and sustained injuries he would be back just as good as ever.

Don't forget Stringer and Morris have had horrific leg breaks, as has Wallis and they go all right.

[Remi Moses]

Ridiculous he's 25.

Saying you'd have Hamling over Fyfe is crazy. Fyfe could go back and absolutely dominate to a level Hamling could only dream of.

Not ridiculous given how many times he's been injured and the severity of his injuries .Id take Fyfe over Hamling ,but pointing out we may not get the output for money paid

[Twodogs]

I have heard that Fyfe is a bit high maintenance too. Everything tends to be about him which is stock standard for an elite sportsperson but a few different people have told me things that take it to a new level.

[jeemak]

I'd do whatever I could to prize Jack Billings away from St Kilda. He's the uncontracted player I would be putting my focus on as we need forward and midfield class.

We're not going to get like for like with JJ, so we may as well look to the future and fix a genuine list issue.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'd do whatever I could to prize Jack Billings away from St Kilda. He's the uncontracted player I would be putting my focus on as we need forward and midfield class.

We're not going to get like for like with JJ, so we may as well look to the future and fix a genuine list issue.

There's a good one. We need a player exactly like Billings. A bit of class from a small forward. Sadly it sounds like he's all but signed on with the saints.

[jeemak]

I read in the little paper today that he's not going anywhere. Not sure if I've heard it's a done deal.

How much cap space does St Kilda have I wonder? They seem to be chasing some big names.

[bulldogtragic]

The thread needs to be changed to:

If JJ decides to stay what do we do?

He's been worked out and has been utterly ineffective. If he can't work it out, then he's a hugely paid liability on a long term contract...

[jeemak]

He doesn't look very fit, so it's not likely he'd be able to run his way out of his malaise. I actually looked at him today and thought he looked like he was carrying way too much bulk.

Like many players, he needs to work his arse off over summer to maintain a career.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

He doesn't look very fit, so it's not likely he'd be able to run his way out of his malaise. I actually looked at him today and thought he looked like he was carrying way too much bulk.

Like many players, he needs to work his arse off over summer to maintain a career.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Our fitness looks suspect. It's an imperative given we rely on maintaining possession and both denying opposition time and space to provide our poor conversion on goal enough opportunities to eventually prevail.

[The bulldog tragician]

Maybe it's the white jumpers but I noticed that too..

[jeemak]

It's probably for another thread, but there's a really good reason we seem out of position so often when we don't have it.

[bulldogtragic]

He doesn't look very fit, so it's not likely he'd be able to run his way out of his malaise. I actually looked at him today and thought he looked like he was carrying way too much bulk.

Like many players, he needs to work his arse off over summer to maintain a career.

I take your point. But with every week a lot of people must be thinking perhaps he's not worth say $700,000 over 4 years. The risk of big bucks and many years has to be making even the club question it. If he wasn't a Norm Smith and fan favourite, and in the form he's been in this year, particularly since the bye, would we be begging him to stay with the largish money and many years we're offering, and allegedly increasing our offer again? I mean he's delivering very little and contract time. In most cases, that sets you backwards not forwards. That's meant to be the risk for players holding out, sure if you do well you get more money, but if you stink it up you lose out somewhat. If there's no risk to players holding out, then they should all hold out.

Secondary is if we retain his services, how confident are we that he's going to turn around this? If nuff buffs like Hewitt & Melksham can carve him up, and it's now a thing that will get done every week, it's now a greater risk to give him say the $700,000 over 3 or 4 years.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I take your point. But with every week a lot of people must be thinking perhaps he's not worth say $700,000 over 4 years. The risk of big bucks and many years has to be making even the club question it. If he wasn't a Norm Smith and fan favourite, and in the form he's been in this year, particularly since the bye, would we be begging him to stay with the largish money and many years we're offering, and allegedly increasing our offer again? I mean he's delivering very little and contract time. In most cases, that sets you backwards not forwards. That's meant to be the risk for players holding out, sure if you do well you get more money, but if you stink it up you lose out somewhat. If there's no risk to players holding out, then they should all hold out.

Secondary is if we retain his services, how confident are we that he's going to turn around this? If nuff buffs like Hewitt & Melksham can carve him up, and it's now a thing that will get done every week, it's now a greater risk to give him say the $700,000 over 3 or 4 years.

Well then do we return serve and say if Freo or Essendon or West Coast are willing to part with overs and we can obtain that which we think we more readily need than what JJ gives us then do we say 'Goodbye JJ'?

[bulldogtragic]

Well then do we return serve and say if Freo or Essendon or West Coast are willing to part with overs and we can obtain that which we think we more readily need than what JJ gives us then do we say 'Goodbye JJ'?

That's a really good question now. I'm not sure I have a sold answer yet, but it's now a very genuine question for JMac.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

That's a really good question now. I'm not sure I have a sold answer yet, but it's now a very genuine question for JMac.

And tonight doesn't necessarily paint a clearer picture of how to proceed either. Yes Lever was great, but how much did we contribute to that?

Maybe Lever's success tonight highlights more how we are in trouble in our midfield than it does our problems in defense.

So for me.. going forward questions that need to inform our dealings come season end...
1. Is Libba prepared or able to do what is required to be the multi-contest 4 Qtr beast that he was previously? He is our biggest problem for mine. His performance dictates so much towards or stoppage control that our 2016 game was predicated on. If we want this type of game to be our objective then a fully committed and fit Libba is imperative

2. Is Natural improvement alone going to address our inability to convert our scoring chances,

3. Do we believe intrinsically that effort and immense workrate and pressure is the basis for a competitive and sustainable advantage above that of skill and execution?

[jeemak]

No BT, we hold our ground as we have been doing.

We are offering a contract to JJ based on what we know about his attitude and ability to prepare, alongside the level we know he can produce.

It seems he can't be trusted (unless I'm not aware of other circumstances - which is entirely possible) to present at the appropriate level post some good times, or he can't work out a way to be effective under scrutiny. As a result we're presenting the contract terms he deserves.

If another club wants to present higher terms we'll be compensated well and we can be done with him.

[Sedat]

JJ is a keeper for mine - his pace and ability to run and carry are precious assets for us, and I'd rather work with someone on handling the extra attention than throw the baby out with the bathwater after a few lean weeks.

But on our terms, not JJ's manager.

[Doc26]

And tonight doesn't necessarily paint a clearer picture of how to proceed either. Yes Lever was great, but how much did we contribute to that?

Maybe Lever's success tonight highlights more how we are in trouble in our midfield than it does our problems in defense.

So for me.. going forward questions that need to inform our dealings come season end...
1. Is Libba prepared or able to do what is required to be the multi-contest 4 Qtr beast that he was previously? He is our biggest problem for mine. His performance dictates so much towards or stoppage control that our 2016 game was predicated on. If we want this type of game to be our objective then a fully committed and fit Libba is imperative

2. Is Natural improvement alone going to address our inability to convert our scoring chances,

3. Do we believe intrinsically that effort and immense workrate and pressure is the basis for a competitive and sustainable advantage above that of skill and execution?

Interesting question. I see the answer as no to this as it was us in 2016 who showed All other teams that bringing effort and immense work rate can bring with it seemingly unexpected rewards. I see that others are now bringing this effort more often than not against us. Similarly, our other weapon last season having elite hands around the stoppages has been copied by All others and further our competitive advantage here also nullified.

Unfortunately it is now our skill and execution which is being shown up when All others apply to us what we were so successful in applying to them last season.

So in this latest era, immense effort becomes a non negotiable, not a competitive advantage.

Elite level skills and its execution, and a game plan that exposes the competition are the areas for competitive advantage.

[bulldogtragic]

No BT, we hold our ground as we have been doing.

We are offering a contract to JJ based on what we know about his attitude and ability to prepare, alongside the level we know he can produce.

It seems he can't be trusted (unless I'm not aware of other circumstances - which is entirely possible) to present at the appropriate level post some good times, or he can't work out a way to be effective under scrutiny. As a result we're presenting the contract terms he deserves.

If another club wants to present higher terms we'll be compensated well and we can be done with him.

I think it will be an interesting space. As an aside, why hasn't he been tried on the wing or up forward? A quick forward is something we've been wanting.

[jeemak]

I think it will be an interesting space. As an aside, why hasn't he been tried on the wing or up forward? A quick forward is something we've been wanting.

I think that's because he's a limited player.

No matter where we put him the cat is out of the bag and the same treatment will produce the same result. What attributes has he shown that he is able to work out of his current situation? He's not strong overhead, not a massive tackling or grinding player and he's not a lead up worker.

There's a reason he was a rookie listed development type.

He has a significant amount of work to do as a player now, he needs to become fitter and stronger whilst working on every element of his game.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Interesting question. I see the answer as no to this as it was us in 2016 who showed All other teams that bringing effort and immense work rate can bring with it seemingly unexpected rewards. I see that others are now bringing this effort more often than not against us. Similarly, our other weapon last season having elite hands around the stoppages has been copied by All others and further our competitive advantage here also nullified.

Unfortunately it is now our skill and execution which is being shown up when All others apply to us what we were so successful in applying to them last season.

So in this latest era, immense effort becomes a non negotiable, not a competitive advantage.

Elite level skills and its execution, and a game plan that exposes the competition are the areas for competitive advantage.

I agree. If so, is Lever -as good as he is- our most pressing need?

Can a fit Adams perform his role -albeit not at his level and should we really be focussing instead on securing better midfield skill, like Kelly?

[Doc26]

I agree. If so, is Lever -as good as he is- our most pressing need?

Can a fit Adams perform his role -albeit not at his level and should we really be focussing instead on securing better midfield skill, like Kelly?

What all Clubs would crave in Lever is that he brings so much :

The Non Negotiables:

Effort / work rate
Courage
Mobilility
Endurance
Very good skills
Team First

The Value Adds:

Elite reader of play
Fearlessness
Will eventually intimidate opposition KPPs
Flexibility
Pace for his position
Ultra competitive
Culture bearer

[jeemak]

Doc's right.

But, we need Lever and Adams, with Roberts as back up.

We also need Collins to come on as well.

[bulldogtragic]

Doc's right.

But, we need Lever and Adams, with Roberts as back up.

We also need Collins to come on as well.

Lever, Adams, Cordy with Collins coming on and Roberts as depth is a very versatile group of KPDs, if Collins really comes on Adams can swing forward. Lever might make keeping Morris redundant. Will lever take the gorilla KPFs?

[always right]

Lever, Adams, Cordy with Collins coming on and Roberts as depth is a very versatile group of KPDs, if Collins really comes on Adams can swing forward. Lever might make keeping Morris redundant. Will lever take the gorilla KPFs?

Probably not....but hopefully Collins will.

[Rocco Jones]

The price you pay to delay.

If JJ was flying right now, his market value will continue to soar.

Like we everything, we have to keep logical. I still want JJ at the club however his last 5 weeks have clearly reduced his value.

[Doc26]

JJ re-signing just announced. 5 year deal apparently.

[Danny the snakeman]

JJ 5 yrs

[bulldogtragic]

Surprised he stayed. Maybe the big offers dried up. We need to help him overcome a tag, and fast.

[ledge]

Shuts out the rumours that were doing the rounds you would think.
Great news

[ledge]

Surprised he stayed. Maybe the big offers dried up. We need to help him overcome a tag, and fast.

Why ? He said he didn't want to go anywhere many times.

[bulldogtragic]

Why ? He said he didn't want to go anywhere many times.

Pretty sure I've heard about 5,000 players say that and then leave.

[Danny the snakeman]

Western Bulldogs defender Jason Johannisen has recommitted to the Club for the next five seasons.

Johannisen, who was out of contract at the end of the 2017 season, has agreed to terms on a deal which will keep him at Victoria University Whitten Oval until at least the end of the 2022 season.

Western Bulldogs List Manager Jason McCartney said that the Club was pleased to see the 24-year-old extend his stay at the kennel.

“Jason is not only a key member of our playing group but a quality individual who is a big part of the future of the Western Bulldogs,” McCartney said.

“To reach the heights he has after coming off the rookie list is a credit to not only his talent and work ethic, but at just 24, we think there’s also still plenty of improvement in him.

“We’ve seen ‘JJ’ grow in leaps and bounds over the past few years, and we’re looking forward to watching him continue to develop as a player and a person at our football club.”

Johannisen was taken with the 39th pick of 2010 AFL Rookie Draft and made his debut against North Melbourne in Round 19, 2012, playing 27 games over the next three seasons.

Under Luke Beveridge, the South African born Johannisen began to flourish as one of the League’s most dangerous attacking half-backs, and was awarded the Norm Smith Medal for his best on ground performance in the 2016 AFL Grand Final.

The Western Australian is the latest in a long line of players to commit to the Club long term, with Johannisen joining Kieran Collins, Lewis Young, Patrick Lipinski, Clay Smith, Marcus Adams, Tim English, Bailey Williams and Fletcher Roberts to have re-signed in 2017.

[Go_Dogs]

Great news!

[chef]

Excellent news.

[always right]

Great news but I'm really surprised. How are we keeping these guys with the money we are paying Tom Boyd.:rolleyes:

[GVGjr]

Hopefully he can live up to the standards that sort of contract should demand.

Welcome aboard Jason.

[Remi Moses]

Great news . Hopefully the mindset of his future decided will free him up . Puts to bed all the new idea gossip b/s going around

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Fantastic. Hopefully this breathes a new lease of life in the spirit of the group

[Eastdog]

Great news! Just great to have a weight lifted.

[westdog54]

Close the thread!

[Eastdog]

Close the thread!

Yep agree should be closed now.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Maybe see you again in 5 years..so long thread...good riddance!

[Ozza]

Great news but I'm really surprised. How are we keeping these guys with the money we are paying Tom Boyd.:rolleyes:

Yet to lose one....however, yet to bring in a big one.
Hopefully we can do that this if season.

[LostDoggy]

Great news, lets hope he comes out and runs rings around the blues this weekend.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Delete the thread as threads like these end up having more Danny from Droop st posts that normal

[jeemak]

How about we change it to how do we deal now JJ has signed?

Much of the issues with our list management thought through with very good posting are still relevant to our current list management predicament.

[always right]

Best thing about this announcement is Bont's statement that he "can't wait to play with JJ for the next five seasons".

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Best thing about this announcement is Bont's statement that he "can't wait to play with JJ for the next five seasons".

I really hope re-signing Bont to a long term deal sooner rather than later is a priority for us.
Notwithstanding his importance to us on the field he is vital to ensuring we don't lose a lot of the next generation of supporters.
Never in my life time have we had a guy of Bont's calibre that has the public persona that the Bont has who engenders goodwill from all segments of the football supporting world.
As great as KT, Hawkins, Granty & Johnno were the Bont surpasses them in terms of a marketable brand.

[always right]

I really hope re-signing Bont to a long term deal sooner rather than later is a priority for us.
Notwithstanding his importance to us on the field he is vital to ensuring we don't lose a lot of the next generation of supporters.
Never in my life time have we had a guy of Bont's calibre that has the public persona that the Bont has who engenders goodwill from all segments of the football supporting world.
As great as KT, Hawkins, Granty & Johnno were the Bont surpasses them in terms of a marketable brand.
Agree. Last bloke we had who got supporters this excited was Chris Grant. I remember at the time thinking......shit, I can look forward to watching this bloke entertain us for the next 15 years. Bont is better.

[boydogs]

You blokes might be overlooking Murph a bit there

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

You blokes might be overlooking Murph a bit there

Not in the context of what I was talking about. Murph is universally respected, and admired for sure and will go down as one of our all time greats. And that's apart from his influence within the club's four walls as a catalyst for uniting all age and social groups together as one.

But in terms of leverage as an identifiable icon for young kids to aspire to support the club, its no contest. Bontempelli is unlike any Bulldog great in my life time. We've probably only had one or two others in our history who are in that group.
It's not a slight on Murph at all. Few players in the league, let alone our club, have the sort of marketable capital that Bont has.

[Twodogs]

Not in the context of what I was talking about. Murph is universally respected, and admired for sure and will go down as one of our all time greats. And that's apart from his influence within the club's four walls as a catalyst for uniting all age and social groups together as one.

But in terms of leverage as an identifiable icon for young kids to aspire to support the club, its no contest. Bontempelli is unlike any Bulldog great in my life time. We've probably only had one or two others in our history who are in that group.
It's not a slight on Murph at all. Few players in the league, let alone our club, have the sort of marketable capital that Bont has.

I agree. I don't say that the Bont is better than KT lightly. Templeton is the second best player I've seen play the game fullstop. Only the Bont is better.

Bontompelli is in Whitten territory and Whitten was the best player of all time.

[soupman]

I agree. I don't say that the Bont is better than KT lightly. Templeton is the second best player I've seen play the game fullstop. Only the Bont is better.

Bontompelli is in Whitten territory and Whitten was the best player of all time.

I find it incredible that Bont is just 4 seasons in and is legitimately at worst a 50-50 shot of being our best player of all time.

[Twodogs]

I find it incredible that Bont is just 4 seasons in and is legitimately at worst a 50-50 shot of being our best player of all time.

Worryingly he'd be the same player anywhere. It's not a club specific cult of personality unfortunately.


Yet.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Worryingly he'd be the same player anywhere. It's not a club specific cult of personality unfortunately.


Yet.

Yep which is why if we let him get to his final year of contract without being signed up his contract hype will make that of Fyfe's or Dusty's seem tiny.
His manager may in fact want to engineer this exact scenario to ensure a bonanza pay day. I hope we are well attuned for that circumstance and are able to budget accordingly.