Match Committee - Round 17, 2017 vs Carlton

[Eastdog]

If you were on the Bulldogs match committee what changes would you make for our round 17, 2017 match against Carlton at the MCG?

As always a brief explanation for your changes would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[GVGjr]

Should we target Docherty likes sides are doing against JJ?

[bulldogtragic]

Outs: Roberts, Honeychurch, M. Boyd,

Ins: Collins, Webb, Williams

Cloke or Tom Boyd if available.

We need to play kids with some VFL form behind them.

[Mantis]

Should we target Docherty likes sides are doing against JJ?

We don't target anyone... We play to our strengths and back in our players.

[Rocco Jones]

Just to start with
Honeychruch- I don't get why he played. i don't want to have a go at him, great attitude. MC shoulders all the blame on that one.
Roberts- really seems to have confidence issues and dropping him won't help but he is a liability at the moment.
Clay- Love his attitude but doesn't get near it. Make no mistake, mobility wise we have to count him as playing an extra tall.

Not so much dropped but...
JJ- obvious issues
Stringer- reverting back to doing enough to earn a spot. He is best 22 at the moment via spurts of effort.
Dahl- this is the worst fortnight I've seen from him. Wow. When the uber intensity isn't there his lack of footy polish is glaring.
Libba- looks like he doesn't think footy is the type of thing he wants to do with his life. I'm not being glib there. Just a thought.

[The Underdog]

Interesting that Bevo singled out Suckling as having done his job tonight. I don't think he's on the block but he certainly has plenty of detractors here.
I'd struggle to give a list of ins at this point. I'd like to see Bailey Williams back and Cloke if he's ready as well as any of the players out injured from this week. The list of potential outs is huge, Wallis, Stringer, Smith, Roberts, Libba, Honeychurch, M. Boyd, JJ and probably a few others.

[Sedat]

We gave Honey a good run at it after a string of excellent 2nds form. Thanks for having a crack but it's time.
Roberts getting dropped after 1 game is counter productive IMO. Was awful tonight but having Roughy down back throws us all out structurally.
Is Clay out of contract? Rapt for him to get his rewards last year but I wouldn't be offering a new deal.
We cannot continue to carry all of Hunter, Picko, Dahl and Wally in the midfield - 2 dreadful disposers too many.

[bulldogtragic]

Signed Smith to 1, Picken 2, Roberts 2, Adams 3.

Still nothing from Dale, Webb, Redpath.

[boydogs]

Out: Smith, Honeychurch
In: Murphy, Biggs

[kruder]

Outs: Roberts, Honeychurch, M. Boyd,

Ins: Collins, Webb, Williams

Cloke or Tom Boyd if available.

We need to play kids with some VFL form behind them.

Agree time to have a look at Collins progress. We need a defender that can take a mark, the contrast between the two defences was stark. Love to see Webb on a forward flank/wing or even HBF our ball use is so bad. He is never going to be an inside mid at AFL level its time to develop him in an area that he can succeed in and add value to the team.

[soupman]

There's gonna be calls from some (I'm thinking particularly the Facebook crowd) to "play the kids". Weirdly that's not applicable to a Beveridge side, the entire side is already "kids", and all the ones that have deserved a call up have received one before. Having said that this is where we should be heading:

Players we should look at phasing out over the course of the rest of the season are the following:
-Honeychurch. He has had his chance and did earn it, but sadly lacks the polish required at the level. His skill level makes our weaknesses worse, and he fails to add something that we don't have, even his pressure isn't what it was in that brief early 2015 spell.
-Boyd. Obvious one, has struggled all season and really fallen away of late.
-Smith I am unsure on. He was outstanding last year not just in the finals but in various games. I remember the GC game in Cairns he had about 10 shots on goal. Lacks skill or mobility and I don't see a big future with us but I wouldn't be ruling him out just yet like the other two.


Players we should consider giving a chance.
-Hamilton. Our most underwhelming draftee of the last few years, but is meant to be smart and a good user. Beveridge has shown a keenness to give fringe players an opportunity to show something over the course of 3-4 games (see Cordy, Honeychurch, Darley), I am expecting Hamilton to get his chance to show why he has been on the list 3 years.
-Lynch. Another that has been on the list for 3 years, with no senior games. Has attributes that we are lacking, in skill and pace.
-Lipinski. A natural forward, who has shown an ability to kick multiple goals at VFL level and is pacy.
-Greene, Collins and Prudden are the other three I'd be looking at. Greene for similar reasons to Lipinski, he could offer us something in a position we are shallow in. Collins I have doubts on, but his VFL form seems to have improved so may be viable as the tall defender positon Roberts is currently in. Prudden I would be looking at to step into the Boyd role. An assured clean ball user coming out of defence that plays primarily a supporting role within the defensive unit. I don't have huge faith in Prudden's longevity, but I would be happy to see him get a chance.

Williams and Webb belong in their own category, along with Dale and Mclean. All have shown enough to suggest they have bright futures at AFL level, all are good users of the footy, can carry the ball and are potentially more balanced than some of our other players who seem to be weighted heavily one way (ie. Hunter is very outside, Dahlhaus extremely inside etc.). They should all be playing the majority of the remainder of the season, form/effort permitting.

The only ones left that are not injured are Young, English, Tweedie and NMM. None of them for mine are ready physically to make enough of an impact in their preferred roles, and they have enough time on their sides to not need to make an impact this year to justify their spots.

[G-Mo77]

Good post Soupa.

Interesting that Young was actually named emergency. We may get a look at him this season. I believe Greene is out for some time with aan arm injury so he'll probably have to wait until 2018.

Honeychurch was really disappointing tonight. When he wasn't with the ball he was falling over and appealing for frees. What I've liked about him in the past is his ability to not only win the ball but to create pressure and 2nd and 3rd efforts. He's been pretty disappointing since his return to the team.

I'm just at a loss of who comes in and out at this point.

[jeemak]

Good effort Soup.

Can't say I'm in a position to agree/disagree but the post was immense.

[jeemak]

I've been a massive Honeychurch supporter over time, but tonight put a line though his future prospects. Attention to detail when needed was completely off, and one or two good efforts four weeks in a row (which he needs to be credited for as a 20 gamer) don't quite cut it at our club when we have others better than him in his role.

Having said that, we have a massive issue as followers expecting players to be really good sooner than they are ready to be. Honey has only played 20 games and can probably be a decent AFL player over time. Unfortunately for him, we are in a mode where we need to expect better from anyone who lines up for us.

[Danny the snakeman]

You know Liam Jones is going to play his best ever game this week.

[Sedat]

I've been a massive Honeychurch supporter over time, but tonight put a line though his future prospects. Attention to detail when needed was completely off, and one or two good efforts four weeks in a row (which he needs to be credited for as a 20 gamer) don't quite cut it at our club when we have others better than him in his role.

Having said that, we have a massive issue as followers expecting players to be really good sooner than they are ready to be. Honey has only played 20 games and can probably be a decent AFL player over time. Unfortunately for him, we are in a mode where we need to expect better from anyone who lines up for us.
If Honey was genuine AFL level quality he would have already played 50+ games. He's in that twilight zone known as 'too good for VFL and not good enough for AFL'.

[GVGjr]

We don't target anyone... We play to our strengths and back in our players.

Yep, we are nothing if not stubborn even when other teams are using the tagging option effectively.

I think Smith could go to Docherty and give their players something to else to focus on.

[Go_Dogs]

Should we target Docherty likes sides are doing against JJ?

Yes - let's play Picken as a defensive forward and hope he can nullify Docherty and maybe snare a goal or two.


Just the one change for me, Honeychurch out and Bailey Williams in and I'd move JJ into the forward line, Williams into defence.

[jeemak]

Let's not play Picken at all.

[soupman]

I've been a massive Honeychurch supporter over time, but tonight put a line though his future prospects. Attention to detail when needed was completely off, and one or two good efforts four weeks in a row (which he needs to be credited for as a 20 gamer) don't quite cut it at our club when we have others better than him in his role.


I've always seen him as Dahlhaus-lite. Has all the same attributes, tiny, unpolished, high pressure and energy, shoddy footskills, ability to play as a small forward or very inside midfielder. This is why I found it disappointing that he wasn't deemed good enough to have a go at replacing Dahlhaus' impact last season when Luke got injured.

Could he have a future at the level? Possibly. The issue for mine is that the players that start to excel after 20 odd games are the ones who are still maturing physically to compete, or show early they have the skills but struggle to get work themselves into the game either through game knowledge/adjusting to the pace/not yet fit enough.

Honeychurch doesn't have those things to grow into, he isn't learning how to find space at AFL level to use his footskills, he has none. He isn't growing into his body/frame, he would have been the same size at 15 as he is now. He isn't learning a new role, and he already finds the ball plenty. Daniel is similar, in that there isn't huge scope for growth in his game because all of his strengths can be put on display already at AFL level.

It's a shame because I like his tenacity and work rate and of all the players on our list he has received the least reward for sustained good performances at VFL level, and he has shown signs these last 3 years that he can contribute, (games against North (?) this year, port last year, and early weeks 2015 were promising), but I can't see him adding enough to the side to offset the weaknesses he makes greater.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Let's not play Picken at all.

Bingo.

[Go_Dogs]

Let's not play Picken at all.

He's done his best work as a forward last year, have we played him in that role much this year? Genuine question, because I often leave games not really knowing what certain players' roles were.... Maybe that's half the problem.

[Remi Moses]

I think it's time Bevo bit the bullet and tried taking a strength from an opposing side . It's all very well backing your own systems in, but you have to take a strength from our opponents as well .

[always right]

There must be consequences after a performance like that and the season is shot so nothing wrong with making a statement.

Picken was so poor last night I forgot he was even playing. I love the guy but he has exhausted whatever credits he had.
Honeychurch just isn't up to it and even when we were in the game he was poor.
Morris has had three really poor games in a row and should be replaced by Collins.....but I don't think he'll be dropped,

[always right]

I've always seen him as Dahlhaus-lite. Has all the same attributes, tiny, unpolished, high pressure and energy, shoddy footskills, ability to play as a small forward or very inside midfielder. This is why I found it disappointing that he wasn't deemed good enough to have a go at replacing Dahlhaus' impact last season when Luke got injured.

Could he have a future at the level? Possibly. The issue for mine is that the players that start to excel after 20 odd games are the ones who are still maturing physically to compete, or show early they have the skills but struggle to get work themselves into the game either through game knowledge/adjusting to the pace/not yet fit enough.

Honeychurch doesn't have those things to grow into, he isn't learning how to find space at AFL level to use his footskills, he has none. He isn't growing into his body/frame, he would have been the same size at 15 as he is now. He isn't learning a new role, and he already finds the ball plenty. Daniel is similar, in that there isn't huge scope for growth in his game because all of his strengths can be put on display already at AFL level.

It's a shame because I like his tenacity and work rate and of all the players on our list he has received the least reward for sustained good performances at VFL level, and he has shown signs these last 3 years that he can contribute, (games against North (?) this year, port last year, and early weeks 2015 were promising), but I can't see him adding enough to the side to offset the weaknesses he makes greater.
Dahl has one key advantage over Honeychurch.....pace. Effort alone doesn't enable you to get separation from your opponent.

Having said that, I don't really like this focus on Honeychurch. He's an easy target and isn't remotely close to our biggest problem.

[always right]

He's done his best work as a forward last year, have we played him in that role much this year? Genuine question, because I often leave games not really knowing what certain players' roles were.... Maybe that's half the problem.
I would say that for most of his games he has predominantly played as a forward.

[Hotdog60]

If Collins has a reasonable game in the two's could he be inline for a call up.
I know he is still very raw but he has had some better form of late.
Another though I had is, how is his kicking? Could he be tried at half forward. More so to provide a contest for the long bombs and leave Redpath to lead out of the square because Redpath is not a Walker type forward to have a ball dropping on his head.
This is in light of losing TBoyd for the hopefully short term.

[Rocco Jones]

It will be interesting if Footscray turns it on tomorrow. There is a massive stack of senior guys who can be dropped. Thing is, how do you choose?

[bulldogtragic]

It will be interesting if Footscray turns it on tomorrow. There is a massive stack of senior guys who can be dropped. Thing is, how do you choose?

If TV advertising has taught me anything, it's a little girl on Danny Trejo's shoulders or dinner table.

Probably just as good as option as the current MC method.

[bornadog]

Probably just as good as option as the current MC method.

I am going to defend the MC here abit.

Who has really been banging the door down to get into the team?

1. Williams should not have been dropped after the Saints game. He would be my first in.

2. Webb - there are arguments for Webb to play, but in both of his senior games this year, he has failed to make an impact, collecting 12 disposals in each game.

3. Collins, Lipinski, Young, etc have not been starring in the VFL

Not sure what else the MC can do.

[azabob]

I am going to defend the MC here abit.

Who has really been banging the door down to get into the team?

1. Williams should not have been dropped after the Saints game. He would be my first in.

2. Webb - there are arguments for Webb to play, but in both of his senior games this year, he has failed to make an impact, collecting 12 disposals in each game.

3. Collins, Lipinski, Young, etc have not been starring in the VFL

Not sure what else the MC can do.

But didn't you say the MC got it wrong last week?

[always right]

I am going to defend the MC here abit.

2. Webb - there are arguments for Webb to play, but in both of his senior games this year, he has failed to make an impact, collecting 12 disposals in each game.


On that basis, why was Dickson persisted with, why is Picken still in the side and why was Libba brought back in? All a bloke can do is go back to Footscray and play well, which is what Webb has done. I'd like him to play where he has played well in the past.....half back.

[bornadog]

On that basis, why was Dickson persisted with, why is Picken still in the side and why was Libba brought back in? All a bloke can do is go back to Footscray and play well, which is what Webb has done. I'd like him to play where he has played well in the past.....half back.

Not sure why we have tried to make him an inside mid. I agree he played some pretty good games at HBF.

If Webb plays well tomorrow, then he should get a call up for next week.

[Rocco Jones]

After reading some VFL reports (ignoring any chance of injured players returning).

Young for Roberts- I know it's harsh to drop Fletch after one game, I just think he is a liability to the team at the moment. What does he offer? We will go in physically slight but Roberts gets monstered by bigger blokes anyway. Young, Cordy, Morris and Wood to go team defense.

Clokey for Clay- Unfortunately Clay is about as mobile as a big key forward. Clokey gives us a target/helps out Roughy. Hopefully it gives Jake a bit more freedom.

Webb for Honey- Give Webby a real crack in the middle.

Williams for Matty Boyd- Williams really has to come in.

[meenies]

Was at the twos today. Liked Young, Lipinski,Williams and Webb. Are they hiding Webb's disposals?! Hope these four are in the calculations. First two have loads of energy. Williams and Webb are such great link players. Webb reported for a love tap; expect a fine.
Potential outs Boyd, JJ (rest bruises), HC and choose any forward bar Jack.

[bornadog]

Was at the twos today. Liked Young, Lipinski,Williams and Webb. Are they hiding Webb's disposals?! Hope these four are in the calculations. First two have loads of energy. Williams and Webb are such great link players. Webb reported for a love tap; expect a fine.
Potential outs Boyd, JJ (rest bruises), HC and choose any forward bar Jack.

Smith didn't play well, although he was good at VFL level last week.

[Sedat]

After reading some VFL reports (ignoring any chance of injured players returning).

Young for Roberts- I know it's harsh to drop Fletch after one game, I just think he is a liability to the team at the moment. What does he offer? We will go in physically slight but Roberts gets monstered by bigger blokes anyway. Young, Cordy, Morris and Wood to go team defense.

Clokey for Clay- Unfortunately Clay is about as mobile as a big key forward. Clokey gives us a target/helps out Roughy. Hopefully it gives Jake a bit more freedom.

Webb for Honey- Give Webby a real crack in the middle.

Williams for Matty Boyd- Williams really has to come in.
Can our midfield rotations carry all of Dahl, Wally, Hunter and Picko? So little hurt factor when all of these guys have the ball in their hands.

[Doc26]

Hopefully no Cripps this week with a leg injury sustained in the 2nd quarter, where he didn't return. Our midfield needs any assistance it can muster.

[westbulldog]

re "'There's gonna be calls from some (I'm thinking particularly the Facebook crowd) to "play the kids"."

A comprehensive post. I am one who advocates playing the kids, viz Williams, Webb, Lipinski, Young, Collins however I am not for the record one of the "facebook crowd" and have no idea who you are referring to.

[The Pie Man]

They're seeing something in Fletch that I don't giving him 2 years - to be fair, he was good in the prelim and serviceable in the GF. Maybe they can turn him into a forward.

In: Young, Cloke, Lipinski, Williams
Out: Roberts, Smith, Honeychurch, Libba

If Biggs is fit he might come in for Dahl or even JJ if he's sore. Can't see M Boyd being dropped. Not as obsessed with getting Webb into the team as others.

It feels like Libba's career is hanging by a thread. Watched the last 10 minutes of the GF again over the weekend, he won some impressive clearances...he looks bigger and less nimble at the minute, nowhere near being able to impact a contest the way he could last year. Something in our midfield has to give.

[The Underdog]

re "'There's gonna be calls from some (I'm thinking particularly the Facebook crowd) to "play the kids"."

A comprehensive post. I am one who advocates playing the kids, viz Williams, Webb, Lipinski, Young, Collins however I am not for the record one of the "facebook crowd" and have no idea who you are referring to.

Two things on this, you can play some of the kids, but they still need a tier of experienced leadership who can direct them. If you throw a bunch of the kids in together at the same time then you don't get a valuable learning experience, just kids running around and likely losing confidence while they get killed. While the stand alone VFL team is a huge help in players knowing the way we play, stepping it up to senior level is another thing and they need protection. It also helps if those senior players actually play to the gameplan and structures but that's another point entirely.
The other is the kids have to have earned the opportunity. Williams has clearly shown he can mix it, Webb is always around the fringes and has had a couple of shots already. Lipinski and Young are certainly likely to get a shot before the end of the year. Collins also may. What we can't do is throw Collins and Young together and expect them to do anything other than flounder (I'm not suggesting that you are advocating this westbulldog, but playing the kids needs to be done with a method and a purpose).

[always right]

In
Williams, Webb

Out
Honeychurch, Picken

It is of course possible that either HC or Picken might be kept in to play a defensive role on Docherty. This is a role I would normally expect Dickson to play if he was in any sort of form.

[Mantis]

Wow, where do we start??

I would love to give Webb a solid run at it, much like HC has just had, but in looking at his AFL games over the past 2 years I'm not sure we bother.. In this period he is yet to have more than 8 kicks in a game and when his only AFL asset if his left leg it isn't really good enough.

Hard to know if the recently injured will re-appear, but assuming Biggs & Campbell miss I go:

In: Young, Lipinski, Williams

Out: Roberts, HC, Smith

Would love to drop Libba, Picken, Wallis... (where do I stop?), but the likes of Dickson & Cloke need more time in the VFL.

[Rocco Jones]

I would love to give Webb a solid run at it, much like HC has just had, but in looking at his AFL games over the past 2 years I'm not sure we bother.. In this period he is yet to have more than 8 kicks in a game and when his only AFL asset if his left leg it isn't really good enough.

I'm hearing you with Webb but it's not like players filling out the side are doing much. At least Webb has a potential upside.

[Cyberdoggie]

Smith didn't play well, although he was good at VFL level last week.

Yeah we can't just merry go round players, that is not the solution, as there is a much bigger problem here.

One or two players under performing in a game isn't the cause or fix. How does these premiership players all of a sudden perform so far below what we saw last year?

Missing easy goals, fumbles, turnovers, slow ball movement, indirect play, bombing the ball to contested packs, inability to take a contested mark, handballing to players under pressure and not taking the game on, players getting tagged out of the game too easily.
Lack of fight and hardness at the ball.

This isn't personnel it's something else, lack of confidence, whatever. Merry go rounding players in and out of the side isn't going to restore confidence at this point. I do agree on the few changes, we need another tall defender to help Roberts, Roughead needs to be dropped (but there isn't really a replacement unfortunately), and Honey just isn't up to the level. Williams needs to come in and help generate some run or more direct play from half back.
Take the game on at all costs type play. Only way out of this slump.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Yeah we can't just merry go round players, that is not the solution, as there is a much bigger problem here.

One or two players under performing in a game isn't the cause or fix. How does these premiership players all of a sudden perform so far below what we saw last year?

Missing easy goals, fumbles, turnovers, slow ball movement, indirect play, bombing the ball to contested packs, inability to take a contested mark, handballing to players under pressure and not taking the game on, players getting tagged out of the game too easily.
Lack of fight and hardness at the ball.

This isn't personnel it's something else, lack of confidence, whatever. Merry go rounding players in and out of the side isn't going to restore confidence at this point. I do agree on the few changes, we need another tall defender to help Roberts, Roughead needs to be dropped (but there isn't really a replacement unfortunately), and Honey just isn't up to the level. Williams needs to come in and help generate some run or more direct play from half back.
Take the game on at all costs type play. Only way out of this slump.

Yep. The personnel is there. It won us a flag! These guys are extremely capable. Something else is up (there is another thread on this). Whether it's a hangover, lack of confidence (how that happens so quickly to the premiers is beyond me) or something else going on, it's as though the Nerdlucks have infiltrated our playing group. Hopefully it isn't permanent and they can regain it. Else we have to cut through the list again.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Webb has not played to his potential in the games he's played at the higher level. Maybe he;s too aware and anxious. A good run at it will see he is a better player than he has yet shown. Too early to play the kids just yet. Look how the Swans have turned shocking form into good form. Although our last game was a shocker, we have winnable games coming up. Bevo does look a bit embarrassed lately but if we can only beat Carlton this week then take it from there.

[angelopetraglia]

Easton Wood has just been handed a one match suspension. That's all we need!

[Mantis]

Easton Wood has just been handed a one match suspension. That's all we need!

It's not like he is in ripping form.. Just tops off a poor season for him.

I take it is for the jumper punch on McGovern? Wasn't a lot in it, but the precedence has been set.

[divvydan]

It was Wood's third classified offence of the season, so it's a week instead of being a fine.

[Axe Man]

It was Wood's third classified offence of the season, so it's a week instead of being a fine.

Really stupid stuff from the acting captain. Probably letting his frustration with the team and his own form get the better of him.

[Happy Days]

That Wood suspension seems like it's been coming for weeks.

[Hotdog60]

Wood out will give Young a go.

[always right]

Really stupid stuff from the acting captain. Probably letting his frustration with the team and his own form get the better of him.
I suggest you haven't even seen it. I just watched it on the news and it was an open hand to McGivern's back with negligible force in response to McGovern giving him a light forearm to the chest.

Really hope the club challenges the decision considering JJ has copped more than this multiple times over recent weeks. Such a bullshit decision.

[always right]

It's not like he is in ripping form.. Just tops off a poor season for him.

I take it is for the jumper punch on McGovern? Wasn't a lot in it, but the precedence has been set.

No jumper punch. Slight contact to McGovern's lower back with an open hand. Bullshit.

[Rocco Jones]

I suggest you haven't even seen it. I just watched it on the news and it was an open hand to McGivern's back with negligible force in response to McGovern giving him a light forearm to the chest.

Really hope the club challenges the decision considering JJ has copped more than this multiple times over recent weeks. Such a bullshit decision.

What's the risk of challenging? Seems like it is just one week either way, so might as well go for it.

[kruder]

Wood has forgotten how to mark the ball,there has been so many times where he has failed to impact the contest it has really hurt our defence/attack this year. He would be one player that would benefit going back to the VFL to gain some confidence.

[always right]

Wood has forgotten how to mark the ball,there has been so many times where he has failed to impact the contest it has really hurt our defence/attack this year. He would be one player that would benefit going back to the VFL to gain some confidence.

Disagree......his last two weeks have been poor but his month prior to that were really strong. Yes his intercept marking is down this year but he still manages to impact contests he has no right to even reach. There are bigger problems than our premiership captain.

[angelopetraglia]

Where has Easton Wood's AA form gone? In 2015 he was literally Superman. Any ball kicked anywhere near him and you knew he was going to mark it or kill the contest.

[SquirrelGrip]

Where has Easton Wood's AA form gone? In 2015 he was literally Superman. Any ball kicked anywhere near him and you knew he was going to mark it or kill the contest.

He's getting blocked every week from taking a leap. Watch Sloane last week stand in between him and the ball, leaving their big guys take marks unopposed(well against Fletcher Roberts or out wrestling Zaine).

[always right]

Where has Easton Wood's AA form gone? In 2015 he was literally Superman. Any ball kicked anywhere near him and you knew he was going to mark it or kill the contest.

Where has Picken's 2016 finals form gone?
Libba used to be a top 30 midfielder.
JJ is a Norm Smith medallist.
Dahlhaus was being talked about as a seriously under rated elite midfielder.
Tory Dickson was one of the most dangerous small forwards in the game.
Bont used to kick goals without even thinking.

What a horrible year.

[Eastdog]

Where has Easton Wood's AA form gone? In 2015 he was literally Superman. Any ball kicked anywhere near him and you knew he was going to mark it or kill the contest.

Yeah he is a very important player. Hasn't been there all this year but in certain games this year I reckon he has done alright. I recall this year giving him some votes in the Woof player awards.

[hujsh]

Where has Picken's 2016 finals form gone?
Libba used to be a top 30 midfielder.
JJ is a Norm Smith medallist.
Dahlhaus was being talked about as a seriously under rated elite midfielder.
Tory Dickson was one of the most dangerous small forwards in the game.
Bong used to kick goals without even thinking.

What a horrible year.

All went downhill after his stupid name change.

[boydogs]

Take the game on at all costs type play. Only way out of this slump.

Agree with you there. I would like to see chains of handballs out of defense leading to long kicks down the corridor to an open forward line

[lemmon]

Wow, where do we start??

I would love to give Webb a solid run at it, much like HC has just had, but in looking at his AFL games over the past 2 years I'm not sure we bother.. In this period he is yet to have more than 8 kicks in a game and when his only AFL asset if his left leg it isn't really good enough.

Hard to know if the recently injured will re-appear, but assuming Biggs & Campbell miss I go:

In: Young, Lipinski, Williams

Out: Roberts, HC, Smith

Would love to drop Libba, Picken, Wallis... (where do I stop?), but the likes of Dickson & Cloke need more time in the VFL.

But Webb consistently dominates through the middle at VFL level. Have we actually played him as a midfielder in the ones? He played as a half back early and a high half forward this year.

[bornadog]

Disagree......his last two weeks have been poor but his month prior to that were really strong. Yes his intercept marking is down this year but he still manages to impact contests he has no right to even reach. There are bigger problems than our premiership captain.

This ^^^

May not be taking intercept marks, but his spoils from behind are very effective. Played well prior to last week. Against West Coast, he had 21 disposals, 8 marks and 4 tackles. He is marginally down on last year's average marks per game.

People forget he had an ankle reconstruction at the end of the season

[The Underdog]

But Webb consistently dominates through the middle at VFL level. Have we actually played him as a midfielder in the ones? He played as a half back early and a high half forward this year.

He certainly spent a heap of the Geelong game in the middle. A bit of time running with Dangerfield if I remember correctly

[bornadog]

Both Bob and Biggs will be tested this week, and should come in if they are ok. Campbell out for another 3 to 4 weeks, so second ruck will be an issue again.

I would like to see Trav come in, and run around his favourite ground.

[The bulldog tragician]

All went downhill after his stupid name change.

Hilarious.

[Happy Days]

All went downhill after his stupid name change.

Smart move to change from #4 to #420 and pocket all the extra jumper number money though.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Both Bob and Biggs will be tested this week, and should come in if they are ok. Campbell out for another 3 to 4 weeks, so second ruck will be an issue again.

I would like to see Trav come in, and run around his favourite ground.

Agree on Trav.

On Campbell - he simply cannot string more than a handful of games together. I know he's contracted for next year and worth holding onto, but we really need to trade for or pick up a fringe ruck.

[westbulldog]

MRP get real. The club must appeal Easton Wood's 1 match suspension, he would have made harder contact shaking hands. Cotchin punches a bloke in the guts and gets fined $1500.

[jeemak]

Is there a video of the Wood incident?

[Rocket Science]

Nothing online but it was replayed last night on Talking Footy and precisely the sort of garden-variety soft niggle that ensues a dozen times at the start of every game these days. McGovern gave Easton a soft one to the guts, Easton returned serve, McGovern had the textbook 2 second delay before going down like he'd been shot, and voila.

Even the MRP termed it low impact. Easton's problem is that he had 'form', apparently.

"Western Bulldogs defender Easton Wood has been offered a one-match suspension as a result of his third low-level charge after he struck Adelaide's Mitch McGovern on Friday night.

Wood has been charged twice already with intentional, low impact strikes to the body, on Josh Schache (Brisbane Lions) in round five and Taylor Garner (North Melbourne) in round 14.

A third offence results in an automatic one-match suspension if Wood chooses not to challenge, sidelining him for Sunday's clash against Carlton.

Wood becomes the first player to be suspended under the three strikes system since it was introduced ahead of the 2015 season."

Yay.

[Axe Man]

I suggest you haven't even seen it. I just watched it on the news and it was an open hand to McGivern's back with negligible force in response to McGovern giving him a light forearm to the chest.

Really hope the club challenges the decision considering JJ has copped more than this multiple times over recent weeks. Such a bullshit decision.

Regardless of how little in it there was he should have known he was walking a fine line with 2 fines already this season for that type of incident.

[kruder]

This ^^^

May not be taking intercept marks, but his spoils from behind are very effective. Played well prior to last week. Against West Coast, he had 21 disposals, 8 marks and 4 tackles. He is marginally down on last year's average marks per game.

People forget he had an ankle reconstruction at the end of the season


He was really poor against West coast your just looking at stats means nothing. Easton Wood in 2015 was a dominate player, a real key to our success that year he is no where near that commanding level for nearly 2 years now.

[always right]

Regardless of how little in it there was he should have known he was walking a fine line with 2 fines already this season for that type of incident.

Have you seen it?

[always right]

He was really poor against West coast your just looking at stats means nothing. Easton Wood in 2015 was a dominate player, a real key to our success that year he is no where near that commanding level for nearly 2 years now.

Dominant in 2015, excellent in 2016, inconsistent in 2017. Teams actually plan to curb his influence.

[Ozza]

Tend to agree on Wood. Not having anywhere near the influence, and disposal in recent weeks has been dreadful. Disposal has never been his strength, but he isn't respecting the limitations of his kicking, and it is hurting the team.

[always right]

Really disappointed the club has accepted the one match ban. What was the risk in challenging it?

[bornadog]

He was really poor against West coast your just looking at stats means nothing. Easton Wood in 2015 was a dominate player, a real key to our success that year he is no where near that commanding level for nearly 2 years now.

Did you go to the West Coast match? I know what I saw that day, so it is just not stats. Easton Wood played a different role in 2015, which gave him the opportunity to attack, run and bounce etc. Now he is stuck playing on tall players.


Dominant in 2015, excellent in 2016, inconsistent in 2017. Teams actually plan to curb his influence.

Agree has been a little inconsistent



Tend to agree on Wood. Not having anywhere near the influence, and disposal in recent weeks has been dreadful. Disposal has never been his strength, but he isn't respecting the limitations of his kicking, and it is hurting the team.

81% effciency in the West Coast game. Played poorly as did all players last week.

[Rocco Jones]

Grant has said Cloke will spend at least another week in the VFL.

I would bring in a tall to play forward, even as a bit of a defensive role up to help curb the amount of intercept marks we give away. Think Zaine Cordy last year.

[bornadog]

Grant has said Cloke will spend at least another week in the VFL.

I would bring in a tall to play forward, even as a bit of a defensive role up to help curb the amount of intercept marks we give away. Think Zaine Cordy last year.

Would have to be a debutant.

[1eyedog]

Wouldn't mind having a look at Lipinski

[Axe Man]

Have you seen it?

Well at the time I guess but not since, can't seem to find it anywhere.

But again that's beside the point, I'm not arguing he should be suspended. I'll take your word for it that there's nothing in it. I just think it was foolish from Wood to put himself in that position. The MRP have been just waiting to make an example out of someone with these body punches.

[always right]

Well at the time I guess but not since, can't seem to find it anywhere.

But again that's beside the point, I'm not arguing he should be suspended. I'll take your word for it that there's nothing in it. I just think it was foolish from Wood to put himself in that position. The MRP have been just waiting to make an example out of someone with these body punches.
It was nothing like previous body punches and something you would see 100 times a match. I would agree with you if it was similar to previous incidents but it wasn't. Absolute joke....as is the club's failure to challenge it.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Well at the time I guess but not since, can't seem to find it anywhere.

But again that's beside the point, I'm not arguing he should be suspended. I'll take your word for it that there's nothing in it. I just think it was foolish from Wood to put himself in that position. The MRP have been just waiting to make an example out of someone with these body punches.

And yet Cotchin the recidivist... gets a fine... I just don't understand the MRP.. Why not send the message to Cotchin.. who does it all the time...especially if you're also going to suspend Wood for his action.

[The Pie Man]

So if Cloke is out for another week....

IN: Young, Williams, Lipisnki/English
OUT: Roberts, Wood, Smith

Feel like we need another tall to come in, though Lipisnki sounds ready.

[always right]

And yet Cotchin the recidivist... gets a fine... I just don't understand the MRP.. Why not send the message to Cotchin.. who does it all the time...especially if you're also going to suspend Wood for his action.

It's because it is Cotchin's second offence. Third offence (as per Wood) earns an automatic one week suspension.

[Ozza]

Did you go to the West Coast match? I know what I saw that day, so it is just not stats. Easton Wood played a different role in 2015, which gave him the opportunity to attack, run and bounce etc. Now he is stuck playing on tall players.



Agree has been a little inconsistent




81% effciency in the West Coast game. Played poorly as did all players last week.

I think the efficiency is misleading in this case. Wood's long kicks get counted as 'efficient' even when he had several long kicks down the line that were so up and under and not to our advantage that they were easily spoiled.

Agree on your point about Easton's different roles impacting his season.

[The Adelaide Connection]

It's because it is Cotchin's second offence. Third offence (as per Wood) earns an automatic one week suspension.

The extra infuriating thing, is that Cotchin actually had another swing at a player in that game. They didn't mention it at the time and contact was light, but it was there. Should have been strike 3.

[Rocco Jones]

With Fletcher Roberts... what does he offer us short term? (i.e this season)

He really struggles in one on one contests and struggles to take clean grabs. He has decent footy IQ and a decent kick when he has time. I hope/believe he will continue to develop (really, REALLY needs to get/be stronger in contests) but at the moment, he only plays talls on the stats sheet.

[Rocket Science]

Roberts doesn't offer us a great deal other than trying to keep his head down.

He can plug in reasonably effectively with the support of an in-form defensive unit performing their roles well around him, allowing him to keep it simple.

But if, in the absence of that (ie: now), we ask/need him to extend himself beyond that and perform effective stopping jobs on opposing KP threats, we're pretty much buggered.

If I'm our opposition going forward with ball in hand, I'd be pumping as many of my entries as possible in his direction.

[always right]

For those who haven't seen footage of the Easton Wood "strike" here it is.

WARNING: Graphic content.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/video/afl/afl/busy-week-for-afl-mrp!632619

[hujsh]

For those who haven't seen footage of the Easton Wood "strike" here it is.

WARNING: Graphic content.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/video/afl/afl/busy-week-for-afl-mrp!632619

Wow... That's not even worth a fine. Should have appealed

[jeemak]

That's what I saw on Friday, and I was thinking it couldn't have been the incident in front of the MRP.

Unbelievable.

[1eyedog]

What the hell! It was an open hand to the lats!!! Why did we accept this? Membrey gets two weeks for his car wreck and Easton one week for a love tap in the purest form.

[always right]

I hate it when our club rolls over like this.

[Remi Moses]

Bruised ribs ? :rolleyes:

[azabob]

Bruised ribs ? :rolleyes:

What Remi didn't add was the Adelaide doctors report said McGovern suffered bruised ribs.

[Go_Dogs]

What Remi didn't add was the Adelaide doctors report said McGovern suffered bruised ribs.

Seems like a punch back over Talia-gate.

Typical of that lightweight club. And we have to put up with JJ getting smashed but that's ok cos Tex is a good bloke to have a beer with. Give me strength....

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I hate it when our club rolls over like this.

I'm not sure what we could've done from a legal standpoint.
We couldn't argue it wasn't intentional - it was..and in light of Adelaide's Dr saying he had bruised ribs there is no way we could've changed the impact to that of low.
Short of our legal rep pulling a Dennis Denuto and saying it was about the Vibe and Mabo.. we would've looked silly at the ttibunal.

[Rocco Jones]

Yep 'vibe of the thing' the only defense. I am annoyed at it but can we move on?

[always right]

Yep 'vibe of the thing' the only defense. I am annoyed at it but can we move on?

Sorry. I'll run future posts past you first for your approval.

[always right]

I'm not sure what we could've done from a legal standpoint.
We couldn't argue it wasn't intentional - it was..and in light of Adelaide's Dr saying he had bruised ribs there is no way we could've changed the impact to that of low.
Short of our legal rep pulling a Dennis Denuto and saying it was about the Vibe and Mabo.. we would've looked silly at the ttibunal.
Wasn't aware of the doctor's report. It actually annoys me even more.

[Go_Dogs]

I'm not sure what we could've done from a legal standpoint.
We couldn't argue it wasn't intentional - it was..and in light of Adelaide's Dr saying he had bruised ribs there is no way we could've changed the impact to that of low.
Short of our legal rep pulling a Dennis Denuto and saying it was about the Vibe and Mabo.. we would've looked silly at the ttibunal.

It appears you can't even look at this incident in isolation for the manifestly excessive angle.

[angelopetraglia]

If Wood's love tap with an open hand deserves a fine then there are 500 fines every round. Joke.

[bornadog]

For those who haven't seen footage of the Easton Wood "strike" here it is.

WARNING: Graphic content.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/video/afl/afl/busy-week-for-afl-mrp!632619

Thank you for finding that. McGovern should be reported for staging. He is either weak as piss to fall down like that or he is staging. A slap on the back, wow is now a report.

Adelaide truly are becoming the biggest whingers in the AFL.

[S Coast Simon]

Thanks or finding the footage. This is a joke. I agree McGovern should be sanctioned for staging it looked like he got shot. Add to that The monster if a man Jenkins going down like he was hit by a baseball bat. They should be embarrassed by how they performed. Clayton was crucified for dropping the exact same way. The only difference was that his was an elbow to the chinand was way harder than the Adelaide boys got hit. The commission have a serious hatred for Footscray still burning in them.

[westbulldog]

The Wood decision by the MRP is an equal piece of crap to the non-event that cost Chris Grant the Brownlow.

[Hotdog60]

I reckon he had the bruising before hand and Easton must have got him on the right spot.
Still p#ss weak.

[westbulldog]

Here is an insight into the MRP who imo are bewilderingly inconsistent and botch decisions every week.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-outsider-why-the-recruitment-of-former-athletes-to-high-profile-positions-like-the-mrp-must-end/news-story/2913c9b274957276d1f02ee33a887231

One bit I liked :-
And it is a credit to them as footballers and people that Barry Hall and ‘Mad Dog Muir’ would have been far better choices through their knowledge of intent, recklessness and severity of impact

[The Adelaide Connection]

Honestly, how we didn't challenge this is beyond me. Sure there is a medical report, but there was in the Oliver report too. Unless he is legitimately made of jelly that couldn't have done any damage. Either McGovern goes for staging -or- (if it did really hurt) there was preexisting bruising and Adelaide should go down for falsifying their report.

[always right]

Honestly, how we didn't challenge this is beyond me. Sure there is a medical report, but there was in the Oliver report too. Unless he is legitimately made of jelly that couldn't have done any damage. Either McGovern goes for staging -or- (if it did really hurt) there was preexisting bruising and Adelaide should go down for falsifying their report.

I'd forgotten about the Oliver incident. Very good comparison.

[The Pie Man]

I too find the Wood incident baffling, though I will offer this - he got him with the base of the palm. Feel yours. It definitely has the capacity to cause bruising if hit with it hard enough.

[Happy Days]

Have seen around the forum people wanting a defensive forward on Docherty, but I don't think it will be necessary - he'll play a lot more in the middle with Cripps out. CD had him attending a significant number of centre bounces once Cripps left the game on the weekend.

I don't know if this is a good thing or not. He's maybe the best defender in the league (elite one on one, elite intercept player, elite skills), but he's SUCH a gun that he'll probably do serious damage in a more damaging role.

[always right]

I too find the Wood incident baffling, though I will offer this - he got him with the base of the palm. Feel yours. It definitely has the capacity to cause bruising if hit with it hard enough.
"If he hit him hard enough". How many forceful forearms to player's backs do you see every game?

[S Coast Simon]

Who else thinks this is a nice little turning point. JJ signs on, Toyd and Cloke return to the family. The group to be bonded this week and beat Carlton buy 8 goals to remind people they are not done with yet. 4 wins leading into GWS. Knock them over and we are back in it.

[The Pie Man]

"If he hit him hard enough". How many forceful forearms to player's backs do you see every game?

How many players would suffer back bruising regularly? (Plenty would be my guess)

It's a can of worms

[KT31]

Who else thinks this is a nice little turning point. JJ signs on, Toyd and Cloke return to the family. The group to be bonded this week and beat Carlton buy 8 goals to remind people they are not done with yet. 4 wins leading into GWS. Knock them over and we are back in it.

And today I placed a new Doggies sticker on my ute, our downhill spiral started when I took the old sticker off for a new canopy.
I actually said to my Pups that removing it is going to be unlucky as we put the stickers on our cars just prior to the start off last season.:D

Watch out Blues, here we come.

[bornadog]

It appears you can't even look at this incident in isolation for the manifestly excessive angle.

Here is a different angle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCowAwGd0cQ&feature=youtu.be

[Jeanette54]

I need a medical certificate for a day off work, does anyone know the name of the Adelaide Club Doctor who prepared the medical advice for the MRP.

[Mofra]

I need a medical certificate for a day off work, does anyone know the name of the Adelaide Club Doctor who prepared the medical advice for the MRP.
"Hi Everybody"
"Hi Dr Nick"

[jeemak]

Quote of the day.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

First time i've seen the Wood incident. Wow. What has this sport become....

[The bulldog tragician]

Here is a different angle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCowAwGd0cQ&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for posting. I hadn't seen it. That is absolutely unbelievable.

[Rocket Science]

http://i65.tinypic.com/20r1wnc.jpg

[S Coast Simon]

And today I placed a new Doggies sticker on my ute, our downhill spiral started when I took the old sticker off for a new canopy.
I actually said to my Pups that removing it is going to be unlucky as we put the stickers on our cars just prior to the start off last season.:D

Watch out Blues, here we come.
i respect you taking ownership of the sticker fiasco. I'm just glad the new one is one and we are back on track.

[ledge]

Here is a different angle.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCowAwGd0cQ&feature=youtu.be

He should have gone for faking it, how the hell do you get anything at all
For that and why wasn't the Adelaide player charged he did worse ?

[Rocco Jones]

http://i65.tinypic.com/20r1wnc.jpg

Is that really their doctor?

[always right]

Is that really their doctor?

Move on Rocco.;)

[Rocco Jones]

Move on Rocco.;)

Hahaha. I have moved on. Moved onto making it a movement on my page! I had not really seen the footage. Wow. I knew it was stupid but wow.

[Rocco Jones]

Seriously though, is that Adelaide's doctor?

[always right]

Seriously though, is that Adelaide's doctor?

http://www.afldoctorsassociation.com.au/afl-club-doctors/

http://wakefieldsports.com.au/steve-kennett/

[Rocket Science]

In aid of full disclosure ... (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/08/bornstein-trump-linguistics/497840/)

I might've taken some photoshop liberties.

[GVGjr]

I need a medical certificate for a day off work, does anyone know the name of the Adelaide Club Doctor who prepared the medical advice for the MRP.


Yep,, its Doctor Howlong

[bornadog]

The youngest player in the AFL is in the mix to make his AFL debut this week (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/collingwood/who-will-be-in-and-out-when-afl-teams-are-named-for-round-17/news-story/5e860b1cf3eb24add690246d6c3d3b53)

THE Western Bulldogs will tomorrow consider blooding the youngest player in the AFL — Lewis Young.

Young, 18, is in the mix for Sunday’s clash against Carlton at the MCG as the underperforming premier searches for some much-needed spark, reports Sam Landsberger.
Young was named an emergency in last week’s loss to Adelaide and was only eligible for last year’s draft by 11 days.

The 197cm former basketballer was taken at No. 49 — the pick received from St Kilda in the Koby Stevens trade — and the swingman has been a standout playing in defence for Footscray.

The Dogs must replace vice-captain Easton Wood (suspension), but are hopeful skipper Bob Murphy will recover from a hamstring strain.
Young took 10 marks and had 25 disposals against Sandringham on Sunday, named in Footscray’s best for the third time in four matches.

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/f8195ad6ac6686d8bc7a2f3c6520a292?width=650
Teenager Lewis Young is a chance to make his AFL debut against Carlton.

Dogs coach Luke Beveridge blooded an astonishing 12 debutants in his first 32 games as coach, with five of those playing in last year’s premiership.
While ruckman Tim English has been the only debutant this season, that is because the Dogs decided to load up on talls at last year’s national draft.
Beveridge also noted after the 59-point loss to Adelaide that his team was sorely beaten aerially as the Crows took a whopping 20 contested marks to four.

“Lewis Young is a boy that we see playing in the three parts of the ground,” Dogs recruiter Simon Dalrymple said on draft night.

“He’s played mainly as a forward and has pinch-hit in the ruck, but we also see him playing in defence.
“We felt he’s got some potential as a key forward or defender.”

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Looks a bit like Easton himself, does Lewis. Give him no.10 this round to confuse the Blues.

[Rocket Science]

"The swingman has been a standout playing in defence for Footscray"

Oh?

"He’s played mainly as a forward and has pinch-hit in the ruck, but we also see him playing in defence"

Hmm.

Regardless, good on the kid but this is scraping the barrel for a team that's been scraping (we've used more players than any other side) all season.

Do you smell what Liam Jones is cooking?

[hujsh]

In aid of full disclosure ... (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2016/08/bornstein-trump-linguistics/497840/)

I might've taken some photoshop liberties.

We live in a strange, strange world

[Mantis]

"The swingman has been a standout playing in defence for Footscray"

Oh?

"He’s played mainly as a forward and has pinch-hit in the ruck, but we also see him playing in defence"

Hmm.

Regardless, good on the kid but this is scraping the barrel for a team that's been scraping (we've used more players than any other side) all season.

Do you smell what Liam Jones is cooking?

The bolded bit is quoted from draft night when this statement was correct... as is the comment about him playing well in defence.

The scraping the bottom of the barrel comment is junk... he's been impressive and has all the attributes to be a regular when his body matures... Playing him is a step in the right direction.

And re: playing most of the list - we did the same last year, so why the concern now?

[S Coast Simon]

Crazy how we hear all the time about a player being tagged out of the game yet we refuse to do this tactic. I understand the interruption to your own tactics but if yours aren't working then why not try someone else's tactics.

[Mofra]

Crazy how we hear all the time about a player being tagged out of the game yet we refuse to do this tactic. I understand the interruption to your own tactics but if yours aren't working then why not try someone else's tactics.
Premierships generally go to the team that sets a new standard or creates a new approach (ie Handball Club in 2016) rather than teams that copy others.

[1eyedog]

Premierships generally go to the team that sets a new standard or creates a new approach (ie Handball Club in 2016) rather than teams that copy others.

Tagging isn't really copying an opposition team's methodology though, it's been in the game since Greg Williams played, and, in some form i.e. belting the opposition's best player, likely much longer than that.

[1eyedog]

The youngest player in the AFL is in the mix to make his AFL debut this week (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/collingwood/who-will-be-in-and-out-when-afl-teams-are-named-for-round-17/news-story/5e860b1cf3eb24add690246d6c3d3b53)

THE Western Bulldogs will tomorrow consider blooding the youngest player in the AFL — Lewis Young.

Young, 18, is in the mix for Sunday’s clash against Carlton at the MCG as the underperforming premier searches for some much-needed spark, reports Sam Landsberger.
Young was named an emergency in last week’s loss to Adelaide and was only eligible for last year’s draft by 11 days.

The 197cm former basketballer was taken at No. 49 — the pick received from St Kilda in the Koby Stevens trade — and the swingman has been a standout playing in defence for Footscray.

The Dogs must replace vice-captain Easton Wood (suspension), but are hopeful skipper Bob Murphy will recover from a hamstring strain.
Young took 10 marks and had 25 disposals against Sandringham on Sunday, named in Footscray’s best for the third time in four matches.

http://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/f8195ad6ac6686d8bc7a2f3c6520a292?width=650
Teenager Lewis Young is a chance to make his AFL debut against Carlton.

Dogs coach Luke Beveridge blooded an astonishing 12 debutants in his first 32 games as coach, with five of those playing in last year’s premiership.
While ruckman Tim English has been the only debutant this season, that is because the Dogs decided to load up on talls at last year’s national draft.
Beveridge also noted after the 59-point loss to Adelaide that his team was sorely beaten aerially as the Crows took a whopping 20 contested marks to four.

“Lewis Young is a boy that we see playing in the three parts of the ground,” Dogs recruiter Simon Dalrymple said on draft night.

“He’s played mainly as a forward and has pinch-hit in the ruck, but we also see him playing in defence.
“We felt he’s got some potential as a key forward or defender.”

Good size already for his height.

[bornadog]

Good size already for his height.

Probably still growing as well.

197cm, and listed at 88kg, but would think he has put some weight on since the bio was done at the start of the year.

[Rocket Science]

The bolded bit is quoted from draft night when this statement was correct... as is the comment about him playing well in defence.

Righto fair enough. Had glossed over the "draft night" context of the latter quote.


The scraping the bottom of the barrel comment is junk... he's been impressive and has all the attributes to be a regular when his body matures... Playing him is a step in the right direction.

And re: playing most of the list - we did the same last year, so why the concern now?

You'd think it's one of many concerns. Last year our form could sustain a whack-a-mole approach to selection. Lack of continuity isn't *the* culprit for our 2017 to date, but you reckon it's helping?

FWIW I agree with MC continuing to blood kids where form warrants it. Whether chucking them into the deep end in a woefully underperformed side aids our campaign is a more complex question.

[Danny the snakeman]

Young's in according to SEN

[jeemak]

Hopefully they can find a different file photo for him.

[bornadog]

Squad of 25 to be named.

Guessing Lewis Young, Murphy, Biggs, Williams, Webby all named

[bornadog]

Dogs changes v Carlton


IN: Murphy, Biggs, Dickson, Hamilton, Williams, Young
OUT: Boyd (achilles), Wood (suspension), Smith


#RealStrength

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Clay out after one game seems a little harsh, albeit he hasn't fired a shot this year, but he's really at the crossroads with his career right now.

Nice to see Young named - great effort to get a game in his first year considering how raw he looked.

Surely Honeychurch doesn't play - it's criminal that he gets a game over somebody like Williams (and Webb).

[bulldogtragic]

How is Webb not in the extended squad? He's either told us he's leaving, or will shortly.

[bulldogtragic]

Clay out after one game seems a little harsh, albeit he hasn't fired a shot this year, but he's really at the crossroads with his career right now.

Nice to see Young named - great effort to get a game in his first year considering how raw he looked.

Surely Honeychurch doesn't play - it's criminal that he gets a game over somebody like Williams (and Webb).

Yep, Young the Youngest player in the league too. Our recent mid range draftees from SA are surprising year on year (ex. Hamilton).

[Rocco Jones]

Clay, Fletch and Honey just offer nothing at the moment (sadly for Honey, full stop).

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Starting to think Webb is gone

[bornadog]

Hamilton - can he play his first game

[bornadog]

Starting to think Webb is gone
Has he really played that well in the past few weeks

[Remi Moses]

That Fox League teams show is just awful this year . Talk about team changes and a bit of a bio of players making their debuts

[Eastdog]

Hamilton - can he play his first game

From what I've heard from the VFL reports he is battling. Would be good to see him play at senior level and see what he can do.

[Remi Moses]

Clay, Fletch and Honey just offer nothing at the moment (sadly for Honey, full stop).

Ditto for me . I'm staggered Honeychurch didn't get dropped from the squad

[Eastdog]

Ditto for me . I'm staggered Honeychurch didn't get dropped from the squad

Yeah Honey has been dissaponting although he was involved in that Bailey Dale goal with Redders last week which I liked.

[always right]

Ditto for me . I'm staggered Honeychurch didn't get dropped from the squad

Still could be out once final team is named. Reckon Hamilton will play......never know, he just might step up with better players around him. Has better skills than some of his team mates. Here's hoping he plays so we can make a judgement.

[ledge]

I'm not a fan of Hamilton he has a very light frame , can't see him going in hard , better suited to receiving the ball outside.
He might get a few cheeky kicks but apart from that I can't see much at all.

[always right]

I'm not a fan of Hamilton he has a very light frame , can't see him going in hard , better suited to receiving the ball outside.
He might get a few cheeky kicks but apart from that I can't see much at all.

I don't care if he's outside...as long as he gets enough of the ball and uses it well. We don't need everyone to be inside,

[Eastdog]

Not sure where to put this but ill post it here but was wondering what end our cheer squad will be sitting on Sunday at the G. I couldn't really finding much ticketing information. Im assuming the GA areas on Level 1 would be at the end nearer our cheer squad.

[1eyedog]

Hamilton's form has been really good through the middle part of the year. Gets to the right places and has been hitting the scoreboard. May be a late bloomer which is why we have persisted. Hoping its a stroke of genius. Hope he gets a run.

[divvydan]

Be surprised if Hamilton played as generally they announce the debuts like we did with Young.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Clay, Fletch and Honey just offer nothing at the moment (sadly for Honey, full stop).

Clay and Honeychurch have offered very little. Happy to see Fletcher retained.

[Rocco Jones]

Clay and Honeychurch have offered very little. Happy to see Fletcher retained.

I just don't get what Fletch offers us. He is completely lost one on one and isn't mobile.

[Rocco Jones]

One thing I wouldn't mind seeing is Fletch play a bit more a swingman role. Maybe even offer relief in the ruck? Honeychurch cannot play, I think Hamilton should really be more dominant at VFL level before he gets a game and Dickson coming straight back in probably goes against the reason we dropped him.

[S Coast Simon]

Have thought it for awhile Fletch should play forward/ruck. He has great skills and a beautiful kick when he has time. Can take a grab, it can't hurt to try. Imagine he turned out a ruckman with his skills to go with it. Can't hurt us to try he is unfortunately to slow for defence. The game is very very quick these days

[aker39]

Not sure where to put this but ill post it here but was wondering what end our cheer squad will be sitting on Sunday at the G. I couldn't really finding much ticketing information. Im assuming the GA areas on Level 1 would be at the end nearer our cheer squad.

M33 - Ponsford Stand

[GVGjr]

One thing I wouldn't mind seeing is Fletch play a bit more a swingman role. Maybe even offer relief in the ruck? Honeychurch cannot play, I think Hamilton should really be more dominant at VFL level before he gets a game and Dickson coming straight back in probably goes against the reason we dropped him.

I've wondered about Roberts being played forward and even with a bit of a stint in the ruck. I like him as a player but tend to think he's more of a defender.

[mjp]

...I think Hamilton should really be more dominant at VFL level before he gets a game...

Yeah but Rocco, he has been on the list for 3x years and hasn't played. Surely we have to at least put him in a game and find out if he is actually any good or not??? Setting aside coaching time he would have cost the club around $300K in the last 3-years and hasn't even played...aren't we obligated to find out if he is any good or not?

I know everyone is saying players need to earn their spots etc but I still think there comes a point where these draftees have to get a game so we can actually figure out if they can play. Remember, every time he hasn't been picked over the past few years it is the equivalent of the MC telling him he isn't good enough...maybe what he needs is the positive reinforcement that comes from just getting a game!

If Hamilton plays I for one will be very happy.

[1eyedog]

Yeah but Rocco, he has been on the list for 3x years and hasn't played. Surely we have to at least put him in a game and find out if he is actually any good or not??? Setting aside coaching time he would have cost the club around $300K in the last 3-years and hasn't even played...aren't we obligated to find out if he is any good or not?

I know everyone is saying players need to earn their spots etc but I still think there comes a point where these draftees have to get a game so we can actually figure out if they can play. Remember, every time he hasn't been picked over the past few years it is the equivalent of the MC telling him he isn't good enough...maybe what he needs is the positive reinforcement that comes from just getting a game!

If Hamilton plays I for one will be very happy.

That's fine but he has been playing against men for the past three years and has been ok occasionally at best. He certainly hasn't demanded a spot but given the run of form of some players he finds himself in a position with an opportunity. In his favour we have been good (up until now) for those three years he's been on the list and a spot in the team has been a hard nut to crack. I'm looking forward to seeing him play too. He has Jarman blood and may just be within that small percentage of players who step up to the plate on the big stage.

[soupman]

I'm all for Hamilton getting a game.

I believe Beveridge has a philosophy that as long as they believe a player has talent (which they should if he is on he list) and that player puts in then they will get an opportunity to show if they can cut it at the level before we delist them.

He has shown that he is willing to give players that chance, the only delisting I can think of off the top of my head that was never given an opportunity was Fuller and considering he averaged about 4 touches at VFL level I think that was justified. Cordy had his chance, Darley and Prudden were rotated through, Honeychurch just had his opportunity.

I think Hamilton will get 3 weeks to demonstrate if he is capable at the level and allow us to make an informed decision at the end of the year. I am fine with that, especially considering he has attributes that our side lacks (composure and smarts).

[Mofra]

Have thought it for awhile Fletch should play forward/ruck. He has great skills and a beautiful kick when he has time. Can take a grab, it can't hurt to try. Imagine he turned out a ruckman with his skills to go with it. Can't hurt us to try he is unfortunately to slow for defence. The game is very very quick these days
He doesn't get separation on his opponent as a forward and at 90kgs or so gets monstered in the ruck.

He's not as bad a defender as reputation suggests, and a worse ruck or forward than many hope.

[Murphy'sLore]

Just catching up with this thread, so forgive the back-track.

Re the (ridiculous) Easton Wood "hit" -- could we please not use the term 'love tap'? It's a small thing but using this kind of language does help to normalise domestic violence. Don't want to sound like a wowser but it is something that really bothers me. Cheers.

[always right]

He doesn't get separation on his opponent as a forward and at 90kgs or so gets monstered in the ruck.

He's not as bad a defender as reputation suggests, and a worse ruck or forward than many hope.
Agree. Roberts is a role player who with the right matchup can nullify his opponent as long as our defensive zone is working well. We've all seen him struggle when one out in space.

[Rocco Jones]

Yeah but Rocco, he has been on the list for 3x years and hasn't played. Surely we have to at least put him in a game and find out if he is actually any good or not??? Setting aside coaching time he would have cost the club around $300K in the last 3-years and hasn't even played...aren't we obligated to find out if he is any good or not?

I know everyone is saying players need to earn their spots etc but I still think there comes a point where these draftees have to get a game so we can actually figure out if they can play. Remember, every time he hasn't been picked over the past few years it is the equivalent of the MC telling him he isn't good enough...maybe what he needs is the positive reinforcement that comes from just getting a game!

If Hamilton plays I for one will be very happy.

I am hearing what you are saying, just the balance between that and winning. The dilemma of struggling and needing to win each week to make the finals. Easier when things are flying or you're so far out of contention you can just blood kids. The issue with Hamilton is he is an outside guy who often doesn't get near it at even VFL level. Worried about him being an absolute passenger if he gets a game. I guess thing is, we have had them anyway.

We simply cannot play Honeychurch again. I have reservations about playing Dickson, Roberts and Hamilton. We need to play one of them.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Just catching up with this thread, so forgive the back-track.

Re the (ridiculous) Easton Wood "hit" -- could we please not use the term 'love tap'? It's a small thing but using this kind of language does help to normalise domestic violence. Don't want to sound like a wowser but it is something that really bothers me. Cheers.

"Love tap" is a term that should not be used. To associate any act of violence with love is wrong and dangerous. To justify an act of violence as one of love is perverse.
It is better to say the act was not intended to hurt or was without malice etc

[Rocco Jones]

"Love tap" is a term that should not be used. To associate any act of violence with love is wrong and dangerous. To justify an act of violence as one of love is perverse.
It is better to say the act was not intended to hurt or was without malice etc

Agree with both of you. This 'innocent' language is harmful.

[mjp]

I am hearing what you are saying, just the balance between that and winning. The dilemma of struggling and needing to win each week to make the finals. Easier when things are flying or you're so far out of contention you can just blood kids. The issue with Hamilton is he is an outside guy who often doesn't get near it at even VFL level. Worried about him being an absolute passenger if he gets a game. I guess thing is, we have had them anyway.

We simply cannot play Honeychurch again. I have reservations about playing Dickson, Roberts and Hamilton. We need to play one of them.

And I get that - but our fate lies with our supposed best players playing well, not on whether or not the bottom 3 or 4 in the squad are world beaters.

[Rocco Jones]

And I get that - but our fate lies with our supposed best players playing well, not on whether or not the bottom 3 or 4 in the squad are world beaters.

Absolutely. Thing is, our bottom 3 aren't doing much anyway. I guess Hamilton is a bigger risk than average kid of having zero impact. I agree we need to give him a game sometime. I think next week in Cairns looks as uncontested as a game might get. Maybe then?

[bornadog]

And I get that - but our fate lies with our supposed best players playing well, not on whether or not the bottom 3 or 4 in the squad are world beaters.


Absolutely. Thing is, our bottom 3 aren't doing much anyway. I guess Hamilton is a bigger risk than average kid of having zero impact. I agree we need to give him a game sometime. I think next week in Cairns looks as uncontested as a game might get. Maybe then?

Just checked with Stevo on twitter and he said Hamilton won't be playing.

[LostDoggy]

Dickson coming into the squad means he will play for mine.

I get the feeling he will have a job to do on Docherty. Similar to the Heath Shaw role in the prelim.

I think Honeychurch, Hamilton & Roberts will miss.

Final Interchange - Libba, Daniel, Williams & Dickson

[bornadog]

Final Team

Int; Liberatore Honeychurch Willliams Daniel


Em; Roberts Hamilton Dickson


In: Murphy Biggs Williams Young

Out MBoyd Wood Roberts Smith

[divvydan]

Carlton's changes:

A Silvagni, Buckley, Boekhorst, Graham, Byrne in for White, Cripps, Cuningham, Sheehan, Macreadie.

[bornadog]

Full back
D Morris
Z Cordy
J Johannisen


Half back
S Biggs
L Young
M Suckling


Centreline
L Hunter
M Wallis
R Murphy


Half forward
T McLean
J Stringer
L Dahlhaus


Full forward
B Dale
J Redpath
L Picken


Followers
J Roughead
M Bontempelli
J Macrae


Interchange
T Liberatore
M Honeychurch
B Williams



C Daniel




Emergencies
F Roberts
D Hamilton
T Dickson


IN: R. Murphy. S. Biggs, B. Williams, L. Young
OUT: M. Boyd (achilles), E. Wood (suspension), F. Roberts (omitted), C. Smith (omitted)

[bornadog]

I want to see Redpath kick 5 on Jones and smash him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How is Honeychurch still in this side?

... I'm tipping Carltank.

[bulldogtragic]

How is Honeychurch still in this side?

... I'm tipping Carltank.

He's been awful. He's been a liability, a small forward who hasn't kicked goals or added a damn thing. Players picked on good performance my arse.

[Axe Man]

He's been awful. He's been a liability, a small forward who hasn't kicked goals or added a damn thing. Players picked on good performance my arse.

On Fox last night they highlighted an instance where he showed a complete lack of effort in the Adelaide game. If he's not bringing intensity and pressure what is he in the side for? Certainly not his physical attributes or skills. Has to be his last chance, hopefully he can prove us all wrong.

[bulldogtragic]

On Fox last night they highlighted an instance where he showed a complete lack of effort in the Adelaide game. If he's not bringing intensity and pressure what is he in the side for? Certainly not his physical attributes or skills. Has to be his last chance, hopefully he can prove us all wrong.

Move him to full back and see if he can pull a 'Liam Jones'.

[Rocco Jones]

I'd say Honeychurch to tag Docherty but we don't do that kind of thing. Really struggling to get the Honeychurch call, he has stunk it up big time the last two weeks.

[always right]

I'd say Honeychurch to tag Docherty but we don't do that kind of thing. Really struggling to get the Honeychurch call, he has stunk it up big time the last two weeks.

Last chance to play a Dickson type role as a defensive forward.

[jeemak]

I didn't know Dickson was a defencive forward.

Honey has only had one good half in a month of football, and I'd put a line through him after a few really poor efforts last week. It's probably a bit of an indicator of how ordinary those in the seconds are going I suppose.

[Rocket Science]

I want to see Redpath kick 5 on Jones and smash him.

That'd be lovely...but tall, athletic defenders who can intercept our aimless lobs forward are our kryptonite at the moment. Even when their name's Liam Jones I fear.

This game's going to shit me to tears.

[always right]

I didn't know Dickson was a defencive forward.

Honey has only had one good half in a month of football, and I'd put a line through him after a few really poor efforts last week. It's probably a bit of an indicator of how ordinary those in the seconds are going I suppose.

Not a defensive role in the truest sense but having some accountability for their opponent, which is what Dickson has done often.

[Doc26]

How is Honeychurch still in this side?

... I'm tipping Carltank.

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results

[bornadog]

That'd be lovely...but tall, athletic defenders who can intercept our aimless lobs forward are our kryptonite at the moment. Even when their name's Liam Jones I fear.

This game's going to shit me to tears.

Redpath can get his hands on the ball, just needs to convert

[jeemak]

Not a defensive role in the truest sense but having some accountability for their opponent, which is what Dickson has done often.

Fair enough, I've always considered Dickson to be more of a space finding forward target who can sometimes get onto a loose ball. Every player on the list needs to do the defencive stuff when needed, perhaps we've taken Dickson away from the former and it's why he's struggled a bit to get into the game (aside from our disgusting forward movement hampering his ability to do so).

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Our premiership last year is on for footy flashbacks before our game Sunday

[Remi Moses]

I just don't get why Honeychurch is getting a gig .
I know Bevo is loyal, but this is rediculous

[Eastdog]

Redpath can get his hands on the ball, just needs to convert

Redders has been a positive this season certainly giving us some structure up forward. Would be great if he could get a some goals on Sunday and dominant up there.

[jeemak]

I just don't get why Honeychurch is getting a gig .
I know Bevo is loyal, but this is rediculous

Who's performed better than he has over an extended period and who deserves to play in his spot?

As I said earlier, his continued selection is more of an indictment of our reserve stocks than it is on our selection of him.

[hujsh]

I just don't get why Honeychurch is getting a gig .
I know Bevo is loyal, but this is rediculous

Possibly an Ayce Cordy situation?

Give him every chance to show he can play before putting the line through him

[Remi Moses]

Possibly an Ayce Cordy situation?

Give him every chance to show he can play before putting the line through him

Thinking the same thing . Surely Lipinski or Hamilton

[Remi Moses]

Who's performed better than he has over an extended period and who deserves to play in his spot?

As I said earlier, his continued selection is more of an indictment of our reserve stocks than it is on our selection of him.

Hamilton deserves a run, although I think Honey played better at the lower level than Hamilton .
Honey's had an extended run and has been ordinary . If we're going to see what players bring for a period of time isn't it time w had a look at Hamilton .

[Eastdog]

Hamilton deserves a run, although I think Honey played better at the lower level than Hamilton .
Honey's had an extended run and has been ordinary . If we're going to see what players bring for a period of time isn't it time w had a look at Hamilton .

Yeah you don't know if you don't try.

[bornadog]

Possibly an Ayce Cordy situation?

Give him every chance to show he can play before putting the line through him

That is exactly what I was thinking. Bevo likes to give them 4 games and then he may be out permanently.

[Rocco Jones]

Interesting to see how Hamilton goes tonight (if he isn't a non-playing emergency). If he plays well, I think he would be a likely inclusion next week.

[boydogs]

Interesting to see how Hamilton goes tonight (if he isn't a non-playing emergency). If he plays well, I think he would be a likely inclusion next week.

No goals, fewer than 19 disposals and not in the bests

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-07-16/dogs-take-the-cream-at-cattery

[bornadog]

No goals, fewer than 19 disposals and not in the bests

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-07-16/dogs-take-the-cream-at-cattery

Did he play last night?

[bulldogtragic]

Did he play last night?

I went through our entire VFL Twitter feed. Hamilton isn't mentioned in any tweet, for any reason. Fwiw.