Where did it all go wrong?

[merantau]

When I was in London in 1974, George Best, went missing.
He was discovered in a Mayfair hotel when a staffer inadvertently entered his room. He was on a bed with the newly crowned Miss World, Majorie Wallace. She was naked and covered in banknotes. It was reported in the press that the staffer uttered the immortal words: "George, where did it all go wrong?"

I thought I'd begin this thread with a bit of levity because, what follows is sure to make pretty sombre reading.

So, where DID it all go wrong? Like many, I believed we were at the start of period of real ascendency. To be faced with the bitter reality of dashed hopes so soon after a glorious year is hard to take. But we must take the bitter with the sweet and learn from it.

So, here goes. Injuries. A number of key players had significant surgery over the break and were unavailable for the opening of the season or were coming off truncated pre-seasons.

We lost Stewart Crameri, who I'd penciled in for a big year, very early on. And then Travis Cloke, who was tracking nicely, was butchered out of the game by a dog act that went unpunished. Jake Stringer, Clay Smith Jack Redpath and Tory Dickson also missed many games through injury. So we were bereft of forwards a lot of the time.

Next, our kicking for goal was beyond putrid. Stats prove that. And it went across the board. Mids, defenders coming off half back and rucks chipped in to ensure we kept our oppenents in games or gifted them victories.

Rule changes. I think we suffered more from these than any other team. Banning 3rd man up deprived us of a major attacking weapon around stoppages.

Defenders. Losing Hamling was a blow and the failure of Roberts to cement a regular spot meant we needed a good run from others. But what happened? We lost Adams, Morris and Wood for various amounts of time, the game caught up with Matty Boyd, and to a lesser extent, Bob, and our major attacking weapon off half-back, JJ, was exposed badly and we weren't ready, as a team, to respond to that. We failed badly as a collective in that situation. We just didn't think it through and the loss to Melbourne was a really bitter pill to swallow. Previously we had come out fighting after a bad loss. But this was an insipid response.

Match Committee. There were some mistakes made but I will leave others to comment on those.

And I'm sure others will raise further issues or disagree with points I've raised. But I think it's worthwhile to have a thread that brings all our angst together in the one place.

[macca]

The MRP went out to interpret the rules against us. It was disgusting. So the afl have their wish now to gift gws a grand final berth

- ziebel no ban
- woods tap jumper punch to mcgrovern , who ends up playing the following week with bruised ribs
- Redpath twice for punches
- tony green punch to Caleb , record an inspid 2 weeks, and deliberate kick to Dalhaus face. Which the umpire reported the incident , beyond a joke the mrp decision



Beyond ridicoulous
Is williams on the mrp , the same one who use to coach for us ?

[Flamethrower]

We won the 2016 premiership.

Our club just hasn't had enough practice at backing up after a successful campaign - 1955 and now 2017.

[Remi Moses]

If you were offered a flag and a non finals appearance the next season you couldn't grab a pen quick enough to sign for it .
Disappointing this season, but I still reckon we're in pretty good hands

[The Doctor]

The off season

Losing Graeme Lowe in particular

[Rocket Science]

We won the 2016 premiership.

Our club just hasn't had enough practice at backing up after a successful campaign - 1955 and now 2017.

Curiously, in '55 we missed finals on freakin' percentage.

Groundhog day.

[Bullies]

A lot of teams put a lot of work into us and being the premier everyone wanted to beat us. That takes a lot out of the team week in week out. Also take into account we had never been in this position of winning a flag before so pre season was very late and players unprepared. We also have players who had peaked last year and are on the other side now (Picken/Dickson/Smith). Would be extremely disappointed if we don't make finals next year. Just need to freshen up the list and make some trades.

[Eastdog]

A number of factors:

- Shorter pre season not used to coming off winning a flag.

- Our forward entries and goalkicking been just awful and needs a review at seasons end.

- Injuries - had them last year as well but we have not been able to get our best 22 on the park all year. Losing Marcus Adams, Lin Jong, Cloke, Boyd, Crameri, Stringer, Dunkley etc the list goes on. Need more luck here.

- Players out of form - Bont - still be great at times but at the other times been down. Wasn't the best yesterday, Dahl, Libba, Dickson, Wallis, Clay Smith, Picken, JJ

[Webby]

Curiously, in '55 we missed finals on freakin' percentage.

Groundhog day.

Well by '59 we'd won our first wooden spoon, so hopefully we're not emulating that particular slide!

[ledge]

I don't believe shorter pre season is an excuse .. Hawks did it three years on the trot , Geelong, Sydney have also been dealing with it for years and it didn't bother them.
I just believe we won it early and our delivery into the forward line was atrocious.
Injuries also played a part and maybe we were kind of satisfied with last year .. Let's face it , it wasn't just winning it, it was the way we won it would make you feel unbeatable.
I can only see us learning from this year and being better next year . We were forced to blood some kids and they didn't let us down, they are all looking up.

[Eastdog]

Well by '59 we'd won our first wooden spoon, so hopefully we're not emulating that particular slide!

Hopefully not Webby.

I think right now age is on our side we have some retiring veterans and after that will have a youthful list still with many good years to come and hopefully can get another flag. I'm excited by our young defenders coming through and with another pre season more games they will just get better.

[lemmon]

Our injuries were just as bad, if not worse last year. We had more depth to plug the holes but I don't think it's an excuse.

The biggest factor for mine is stagnation in players that should be at the age and experience where they do the heavy lifting.

Stringer had a rubbish year, as did Libba. Roughead went backwards, Roberts went missing, Wallis ran out of puff. Smith is moving like he's 35, Dahlhaus lacks polish and Hunter is wasteful. Jj was very hit and miss, Adams was hurt as was Jong.

It's that crop of guys that are 22-26 years old and most have played 50-100 games that should be elevating themselves. Due to a mixture of form, injury and conditioning, none had a year as good as 2016 and most were pretty average.

That group should now be the nucleus of the side but the only one in that bracket that's actually stepped up in the way we'd hope has been Macrae.

[ledge]

Our injuries were just as bad, if not worse last year. We had more depth to plug the holes but I don't think it's an excuse.

The biggest factor for mine is stagnation in players that should be at the age and experience where they do the heavy lifting.

Stringer had a rubbish year, as did Libba. Roughead went backwards, Roberts went missing, Wallis ran out of puff. Smith is moving like he's 35, Dahlhaus lacks polish and Hunter is wasteful. Jj was very hit and miss, Adams was hurt as was Jong.

It's that crop of guys that are 22-26 years old and most have played 50-100 games that should be elevating themselves. Due to a mixture of form, injury and conditioning, none had a year as good as 2016 and most were pretty average.

That group should now be the nucleus of the side but the only one in that bracket that's actually stepped up in the way we'd hope has been Macrae.

Bont ?
I think Stringer has been affected by his personal problems which could take two years to get over.
Boyd had issues too, once they get their head right it will be fine.
I think we had a bad year all round with everything but we did well to get the wins we got in the circumstances.
I believe a big year is coming next year. If we get just a little of this turned around.

[bulldogtragic]

Lots and lots. But if I can adjust the question to why didn't we make finals?

We smashed GWS early in the year but couldn't kick goals. Loss.
Both games against WCE they gave us a good look, but couldn't kick goals. Loss Loss.
We had Freo (14th this year) on the ropes at 3/4 time. Loss.
We were going ok until 3/4 time against Geelong. Wildly bad umpiring and limp last quarter. Loss.
Leading Port Adelaide during the last quarter. Loss.

Win some of these and we are not having this conversation. So my question back is, 'are we not able to close games out, and if so, why?'

[FrediKanoute]

The off season

Losing Graeme Lowe in particular

Yep. Have to agree this probably disrupted us more than we as fans realise

[FrediKanoute]

Lots and lots. But if I can adjust the question to why didn't we make finals?

We smashed GWS early in the year but couldn't kick goals. Loss.
Both games against WCE they gave us a good look, but couldn't kick goals. Loss Loss.
We had Freo (14th this year) on the ropes at 3/4 time. Loss.
We were going ok until 3/4 time against Geelong. Wildly bad umpiring and limp last quarter. Loss.
Leading Port Adelaide during the last quarter. Loss.

Win some of these and we are not having this conversation. So my question back is, 'are we not able to close games out, and if so, why?'

Fitness 80%; Attitude 20%

Don't underplay injuries though. we have copped a tough run for the last 2-3 seasons and it was bound to catch up with us. Crammers and Cloke going early disrupted our forward line. Morris, M Boyd and Adams going down put holes in our defence. We have been plugging gaps all year in 2017 and after doing that in 2016 it all came to a head.

[SonofScray]

A lot of factors. Worth noting that for all of it though, if we weren't so wasteful in front of goal against GWS, WCE & Freo we'd be in the 8 and feeling a bit less deflated. Its all been in the margins, in a lot of ways. Deep down I didn't feel like we were good enough by about round 6, the fervour and perfect football displayed in parts of 15/16 just not present.

Changes to staff and roles in the off season. Certainly there was a different approach to some player's role and tactics for sections of the team which we just didn't manage well at all.

Rule changes by the AFL. The disruption caused by the third man up rule has had an impact. Negated a key strength of our best player and exposed a weakness in our ruck stocks. Our efforts to work something out there earlier in the year were bizarre.

The number of post premiership surgeries. A lot of guys were under done and chasing all season.

The shorter preseason + sense of satisfaction that settled in post premiership.

In-game injuries. I can think of at least 4 games now where we went down a man, or more, on the bench early in games. In a tight competition, that stuff hurts. Picken, Boyd, Stringer, Wood, Jong, Morris all went down in game. We have had a torrid run of injury. Less serious perhaps than last season, but more consistent and drawn out across the year.

MRP ridiculousness.

The #freekickbulldogs campaign in the media and lead by the Swans.

Key players having horrible season's individually. Libba the most absurd decline you could imagine.

[LostDoggy]

A lot of factors. Worth noting that for all of it though, if we weren't so wasteful in front of goal against GWS, WCE & Freo we'd be in the 8 and feeling a bit less deflated. Its all been in the margins, in a lot of ways. Deep down I didn't feel like we were good enough by about round 6, the fervour and perfect football displayed in parts of 15/16 just not present.

Changes to staff and roles in the off season. Certainly there was a different approach to some player's role and tactics for sections of the team which we just didn't manage well at all.

Rule changes by the AFL. The disruption caused by the third man up rule has had an impact. Negated a key strength of our best player and exposed a weakness in our ruck stocks. Our efforts to work something out there earlier in the year were bizarre.

The number of post premiership surgeries. A lot of guys were under done and chasing all season.

The shorter preseason + sense of satisfaction that settled in post premiership.

In-game injuries. I can think of at least 4 games now where we went down a man, or more, on the bench early in games. In a tight competition, that stuff hurts. Picken, Boyd, Stringer, Wood, Jong, Morris all went down in game. We have had a torrid run of injury. Less serious perhaps than last season, but more consistent and drawn out across the year.

MRP ridiculousness.

The #freekickbulldogs campaign in the media and lead by the Swans.

Key players having horrible season's individually. Libba the most absurd decline you could imagine.


Could we add two trips to Perth early didn't help?

Pretty much the perfect storm. Get everyone on the track at the same time and reload.

[KT31]

From last season to this season our list didn't improve, if anything it went backwards.
Not picking up a ruckman and losing a key back really hurt.
Also a bit miffed we kept Campbell when he may have had some suiters, then we didn't give him any real opportunities.

[Eastdog]

Could we add two trips to Perth early didn't help?

Pretty much the perfect storm. Get everyone on the track at the same time and reload.

Never easy travelling twice to Perth both fairly close to each other and also travelling to Canberra in Round 6. In 2016 our first 8 games were in Victoria.

[Sedat]

Lots and lots. But if I can adjust the question to why didn't we make finals?

We smashed GWS early in the year but couldn't kick goals. Loss.
Both games against WCE they gave us a good look, but couldn't kick goals. Loss Loss.
We had Freo (14th this year) on the ropes at 3/4 time. Loss.
We were going ok until 3/4 time against Geelong. Wildly bad umpiring and limp last quarter. Loss.
Leading Port Adelaide during the last quarter. Loss.

Win some of these and we are not having this conversation. So my question back is, 'are we not able to close games out, and if so, why?'
The close losses, had they been wins, would have been papering over the cracks. We just aren't in the frame with the real top echelon teams at the business end - Sydney, Adelaide and GWS toyed with us later in the season, Port and even Melbourne did likewise. No team completely got the better of us last year - Geelong maybe but at the Cattery we pushed them all the way - whereas this season we've been non-competitive in a number of games. That simply didn't happen in 2015 and 2016.

When you have 44 players on your list and maybe 2-3 have genuinely improved year-on-year, you're in big trouble. We banked on incremental improvement within and it never really eventuated.

[Rocket Science]

Our hideous innacuracy routinely cost us momentum in games, numerous results and I reckon you could argue a premiership defence.

We must do something about rectifying what's now a league-worst trait.

[Eastdog]

Our hideous innacuracy routinely cost us momentum in games, numerous results and I reckon you could argue a premiership defence.

We must do something about rectifying what's now a league-worst trait.

Yes this must be reviewed in the offseason. There has been games where our kicking actually has been quite good at goal but a lot of others where it simply has not been good enough. A great example is against GWS earlier in the year. That was a game where I felt we were the better side and had we just kicked a bit straighter we definitely would have won the way we were coming at them at the end.

[Daughter of the West]

I have a slightly left field contribution.

Our distinct lack of First Dog cartoons this season.

There hasn't been one since our Sydney win, and that was the height of our performance for the year...

I understand First Dog is all important now, holding politicians to account, attending budget briefings in Canberra, campaigning human rights causes and the like, but surely that all pales in comparison* to how the Bulldogs are travelling?





*All said with tongue planted firmly in one's cheek

[Bulldog4life]

From last season to this season our list didn't improve, if anything it went backwards.
Not picking up a ruckman and losing a key back really hurt.
Also a bit miffed we kept Campbell when he may have had some suiters, then we didn't give him any real opportunities.

I am sure Tom's best footy is still to come. His last 2 games before he was injured were arguably his best for the Club. He had just under 50 tap outs each game and his work around the ground was improved. Unfortunately the poor bugger got injured again. If he can get good run at it the team will benefit greatly and he will improve too.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I am sure Tom's best footy is still to come. His last 2 games before he was injured were arguably his best for the Club. He had just under 50 tap outs each game and his work around the ground was improved. Unfortunately the poor bugger got injured again. If he can get good run at it the team will benefit greatly and he will improve too.
Campbell is still our best tap ruck man but requires an uninterrupted preseason to improve his mobility around the ground.
There was a disastrous run of injuries throughout the year which was a major factor in our decline. At different times we were minus Morris Murphy Adams Dunkley Stringer Jong Roughead T Boyd and Cloke. Heavy knocks suffered to Liberatore and Picken saw them struggle throughout the year. We lacked quality forwards without Crameri together with Dickson and Stringer who both had ordinary years. Our style of play is a very demanding one and eventually our lack of physical strength took its toll. There also needs to be an adjustment to our game with far too much handball being executed, often poorly, at the expense of better and longer disposal by foot.

[Mantis]

I am sure Tom's best footy is still to come. His last 2 games before he was injured were arguably his best for the Club. He had just under 50 tap outs each game and his work around the ground was improved. Unfortunately the poor bugger got injured again. If he can get good run at it the team will benefit greatly and he will improve too.

He's durability must be questioned though... He just can't stay on the park for any length of time.

[1eyedog]

He's durability must be questioned though... He just can't stay on the park for any length of time.

Massive problem he's held together with masking tape and cable ties.

[The Doctor]

He's durability must be questioned though... He just can't stay on the park for any length of time.

like half the team

you have to wonder what is going on with our conditioning and fitness and all the bloody injuries. Or is it our game style thats the problem? I don't know. Frustrates the bejesus out of me we can never have our best team on the paddock

Campbell was going into to 2016 as our Number 1 ruck.

[LostDoggy]

like half the team

you have to wonder what is going on with our conditioning and fitness and all the bloody injuries. Or is it our game style thats the problem? I don't know. Frustrates the bejesus out of me we can never have our best team on the paddock

Campbell was going into to 2016 as our Number 1 ruck.


It frustrates me too but surely bad luck only goes so far before it becomes something else?

[craigsahibee]

The close losses, had they been wins, would have been papering over the cracks. We just aren't in the frame with the real top echelon teams at the business end - Sydney, Adelaide and GWS toyed with us later in the season, Port and even Melbourne did likewise. No team completely got the better of us last year - Geelong maybe but at the Cattery we pushed them all the way - whereas this season we've been non-competitive in a number of games. That simply didn't happen in 2015 and 2016.

When you have 44 players on your list and maybe 2-3 have genuinely improved year-on-year, you're in big trouble. We banked on incremental improvement within and it never really eventuated.

Agree totally with this assessment.

Whilst sitting in my hotel room in Ballarat on Friday night watching the Crows v Swans game, I couldn't help but think that we are so far away from these two in terms of pressure and skill. We have a lot of ground to make up next year. A decent ruckman and some mids with penetration are the key this trade period.

[GVGjr]

He's durability must be questioned though... He just can't stay on the park for any length of time.

To some extent Roughead has had his issues in this area as well. It's why I was critical that we didn't find some in the support in this role while Tim English is given some time to physically develop

[Mantis]

To some extent Roughead has had his issues in this area as well. It's why I was critical that we didn't find some in the support in this role while Tim English is given some time to physically develop

Agree to an extent as Roughy is often injured, can't play a high proportion of the game in the ruck, isn't really effetcive against good opposition and would be in the hands of the trainers more than any player in our team. Shouldn't we replace either of these players with someone more durable and potentially more influential rather than add to the group?

[Bullies]

Never easy travelling twice to Perth both fairly close to each other and also travelling to Canberra in Round 6. In 2016 our first 8 games were in Victoria. Eagles/Dockers have to travel 10 times during the year. We should be used to the travelling by now.

[Bullies]

like half the team

you have to wonder what is going on with our conditioning and fitness and all the bloody injuries. Or is it our game style thats the problem? I don't know. Frustrates the bejesus out of me we can never have our best team on the paddock

Campbell was going into to 2016 as our Number 1 ruck. Campbell will be required if they change the rule in the ruck and throw it up at centre bounces. It is why Collingwood want to know what is happening with the rule before they release Cox.

[bornadog]

To some extent Roughead has had his issues in this area as well. It's why I was critical that we didn't find some in the support in this role while Tim English is given some time to physically develop

How many rucks should be on our list at anyone time?

[GVGjr]

Agree to an extent as Roughy is often injured, can't play a high proportion of the game in the ruck, isn't really effetcive against good opposition and would be in the hands of the trainers more than any player in our team. Shouldn't we replace either of these players with someone more durable and potentially more influential rather than add to the group?

We tried to get a few ruckman but couldn't land them. Perhaps we didn't go hard enough.
After winning a flag I think we just were down on someone to support what we already had and unless we have a more dynamic type I think we need to find a short term replacement until English is physically ready to play some substantial minutes.

Having Bont, Jong or Dunkley in the ruck is not something I want to see unless it's just the very occasional contest.

[anfo27]

We tried to get a few ruckman but couldn't land them. Perhaps we didn't go hard enough.
After winning a flag I think we just were down on someone to support what we already had and unless we have a more dynamic type I think we need to find a short term replacement until English is physically ready to play some substantial minutes.

Having Bont, Jong or Dunkley in the ruck is not something I want to see unless it's just the very occasional contest.

When do you see English physically ready?

[GVGjr]

When do you see English physically ready?
I think 2019 or 20. He will play more next year as well

[anfo27]

I think 2019 or 20. He will play more next year as well

If he is possibly ready in 2019 would it be a waste in getting another ruckman in? We could just hope we have better luck with injuries with Campbell & Roughie.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Jake Spencer? Mature age, big body can't get a game behind Gawn. Maybe a ready made option for now until English is able to stake a regular claim.
I know some have mentioned he's got off field issues (of which I don't know anything about) but maybe Goldstein on the back of 2 poor years might be willing to play for a lot less in the hope of finishing his career strongly.

[westdog54]

like half the team

you have to wonder what is going on with our conditioning and fitness and all the bloody injuries. Or is it our game style thats the problem? I don't know. Frustrates the bejesus out of me we can never have our best team on the paddock

Campbell was going into to 2016 as our Number 1 ruck.


Not to mention Stringer now back off the park with yet another soft tissue injury.

Plus Adams and Crameri not getting on the park.

I'm starting to wonder if the way we manage injuries needs to be looked at.

Libba and Macrae had miraculous recoveries last year, and Dale Morris is Dale Morris, but it Seems like everyone else keeps having setbacks.

Did those recoveries paper over some cracks?

[Hotdog60]

What about Sam Baulderstone, I think one of our SA woofers was talking him up. 26 and ready to go.

Bio: Sam is a two time premiership player and has developed into one of the leading ruckmen of the competition. His stoppage work is excellent and he has a lovely left foot kick. Sam came second in the clubs 2016 best and fairest.

[GVGjr]

If he is possibly ready in 2019 would it be a waste in getting another ruckman in? We could just hope we have better luck with injuries with Campbell & Roughie.

So we get burned one year and you seem to think it's less likely to happen two years in a row? How did that work for us this year?
To me it's like arguing the value of having car or house insurance. Why exactly do you want to cheap out on adding a ruckman?
Are you really OK with Bontempelli rucking in games or Jong and Dunkley?

[hujsh]

Yeah we need at least 3 options in the ruck, not counting Boyd, especially when 2 are so injury prone. Otherwise we're making unnecessary sacrifices in other areas or of other players

[Scorlibo]

So we get burned one year and you seem to think it's less likely to happen two years in a row? How did that work for us this year?
To me it's like arguing the value of having car or house insurance. Why exactly do you want to cheap out on adding a ruckman?
Are you really OK with Bontempelli rucking in games or Jong and Dunkley?

On paper, having Roughy (every bit deserving of the title 'Premiership Ruckman' on 2016 form), Campbell, Boyd and English on the list is exactly the kind of mix we need. I'd object to having more than 4 ruckmen on a 44 man list. For me, if we were to find other options, it would have to be at the expense of Roughead or Campbell, not in addition. Otherwise we will end up with three pure ruckmen at VFL level.

[bornadog]

On paper, having Roughy (every bit deserving of the title 'Premiership Ruckman' on 2016 form), Campbell, Boyd and English on the list is exactly the kind of mix we need. I'd object to having more than 4 ruckmen on a 44 man list. For me, if we were to find other options, it would have to be at the expense of Roughead or Campbell, not in addition. Otherwise we will end up with three pure ruckmen at VFL level.

Would we prefer Boyd to stay at FF and bring in another ruckman?

[anfo27]

So we get burned one year and you seem to think it's less likely to happen two years in a row? How did that work for us this year?
To me it's like arguing the value of having car or house insurance. Why exactly do you want to cheap out on adding a ruckman?
Are you really OK with Bontempelli rucking in games or Jong and Dunkley?

I'm just a bit torn on the idea GVGjr because we already have the solution there in English but he isn't quite ready yet & is there a good option out there that we can use till English is ready? I'm not convinced there is.

If Roughie & TC struggle with fitness again next year then we will look like fools if we have done nothing to rectify the problem.

[ledge]

roughie will always get injured it's in his genes.
Never major but getting hit in the eye by the ball is the perfect example of Roughie and injuries

[Twodogs]

roughie will always get injured it's in his genes.
Never major but getting hit in the eye by the ball is the perfect example of Roughie and injuries

Did he cop another falcon last week or the week before? I'm sure I saw him cop one but no one has mentioned it.

[bornadog]

roughie will always get injured it's in his genes.

He played 25 games last year but missed the first half of this year due to a freak injury. I think he is getting more durable.

People can say he hasn't had a good year in the ruck, but they forget he was injured in the preseason which didn't help him or us for the whole season.

[Ozza]

He played 25 games last year but missed the first half of this year due to a freak injury. I think he is getting more durable.

People can say he hasn't had a good year in the ruck, but they forget he was injured in the preseason which didn't help him or us for the whole season.

Good call.

I think for Roughy, and Dicko as you've mentioned elsewhere, the injuries they sustained in the pre-season meant that both of them never really got going for the year.
If you look back over Dicko's career - the difference between the couple of years where he had continuity vs those where he missed big chunks, is just massive.

For Roughy - he is probably never going to be a dominant player, but keep him fit like 2016, and he is a valuable contributor. It will be important to keep him and TC available and on the park, as English will need 3 years more development at least working under these guys.

At 26 and 27 respectively next season - TC and Rough are potentially coming into their best years. Consider that Tom Boyd has just turned 22 and English 19 or 20 - I think the ruck stocks are in reasonable shape IF the boys can stay on the park

[Bulldog Revolution]

He played 25 games last year but missed the first half of this year due to a freak injury. I think he is getting more durable.

People can say he hasn't had a good year in the ruck, but they forget he was injured in the preseason which didn't help him or us for the whole season.

The only time the team got going late coincided with Roughead finding form

[merantau]

I like to think Tom Campbell's best is ahead of him.

[jeemak]

Reasonable effort from Greg Baum:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/western-bulldogs/from-the-year-of-the-dog-to-a-dog-of-a-year-20170824-gy3fia.html

[bornadog]

Reasonable effort from Greg Baum:

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/western-bulldogs/from-the-year-of-the-dog-to-a-dog-of-a-year-20170824-gy3fia.html

Good article, and about sums it up.

[Hotdog60]

2016

•BRETT MONTGOMERY - SNR ASSISTANT
•ROHAN SMITH - BACKS
•DANIEL GIANSIRACUSA - FORWARDS
•STEVEN KING - MIDFIELD
•JOEL COREY - STOPPAGES
Maybe we shouldn't mess with a winning formula until it breaks.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

We have lost our McCartneyism. We have lost our cracking in, our contested footy. We need to get Brendan McCartney back as assistant coach to set the benchmarks for contested footy.

[ledge]

We have lost our McCartneyism. We have lost our cracking in, our contested footy. We need to get Brendan McCartney back as assistant coach to set the benchmarks for contested footy.

Interesting statement when you consider what are becoming Melbournes strengths.. I've always said McCartney would make a great list manager or junior development coach.
He just wasn't a senior coach, let's face it the list that won the flag was pretty much his.
I give him a lot of credit for 2016 happening.

[bornadog]

we have lost our mccartneyism. We have lost our cracking in, our contested footy. We need to get brendan mccartney back as assistant coach to set the benchmarks for contested footy.

please no

[Twodogs]

Interesting statement when you consider what are becoming Melbournes strengths.. I've always said McCartney would make a great list manager or junior development coach.
He just wasn't a senior coach, let's face it the list that won the flag was pretty much his.
I give him a lot of credit for 2016 happening.


He topped it off fairly effectively but Dal built it with some pretty astute drafting. I guess Jmac keeps them there.

[jeemak]

He topped it off fairly effectively but Dal built it with some pretty astute drafting. I guess Jmac keeps them there.

He's talking Brendan.......not Jason.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

We have lost our McCartneyism. We have lost our cracking in, our contested footy. We need to get Brendan McCartney back as assistant coach to set the benchmarks for contested footy.

I would prefer to see Scott West back as Assistant Coach. We lost our mental tough edge in 2017 which was there to see against Hawthorn, a game that was there to win. There has never been a more competitive midfielder than West and with the game won and lost in that area we fell away miserably this year. Given the way McCartney left the Club there is little chance of his return. There needs to be changes to beef up the support to Bevo as it would appear we lacked the will to win in the manner we slipped into oblivion so quickly.

[bornadog]

He's talking Brendan.......not Jason.

No way can you attribute the list to Brendan

[bornadog]

I would prefer to see Scott West back as Assistant Coach. We lost our mental tough edge in 2017 which was there to see against Hawthorn, a game that was there to win. There has never been a more competitive midfielder than West and with the game won and lost in that area we fell away miserably this year. Given the way McCartney left the Club there is little chance of his return. There needs to be changes to beef up the support to Bevo as it would appear we lacked the will to win in the manner we slipped into oblivion so quickly.

I would like to see Hodge as an assistant.

[bulldogtragic]

I would like to see Hodge as an assistant.

He should be target #1 for the club. Bigly.

[GVGjr]

I would like to see Hodge as an assistant.

There would be some negatives along with some positives on that type of appointment. Hodge might have a good footy brain and be able to express himself on the footy field however, he hasn't always been a good example to team mates with some of his behavior.

I think we can do better.

[ledge]

No way can you attribute the list to Brendan

Serious ?
I know for a fact he chose Clay Smith and no doubt had a a say in others being the senior Coach .
He also put together the requirements for choosing players.
Beveridge has only had one draft at his disposal as he was appointed to late in his first year.
I know we have recruiters but if you think the coach has No say at all your very mistaken.

[bornadog]

Serious ?
I know for a fact he chose Clay Smith and no doubt had a a say in others being the senior Coach .
He also put together the requirements for choosing players.
Beveridge has only had one draft at his disposal as he was appointed to late in his first year.
I know we have recruiters but if you think the coach has No say at all your very mistaken.

You are under selling the recruiting department and Dal.

[bornadog]

Last year we won 6 of 7 close matches, this year we won 3 of 7 - that is a big difference.

[always right]

There would be some negatives along with some positives on that type of appointment. Hodge might have a good footy brain and be able to express himself on the footy field however, he hasn't always been a good example to team mates with some of his behavior.

I think we can do better.
Can you give some examples of this bad behaviour that our blokes might be influenced to emulate?

[Twodogs]

He's talking Brendan.......not Jason.


Oh right. It's a good point. We were very unBmac like this year in our defensive effort at stoppages.

[GVGjr]

Can you give some examples of this bad behaviour that our blokes might be influenced to emulate?

His party attitude, drinking, missing training sessions. The last thing our group needs is someone who might give some latitude to boys having a good time.

[Twodogs]

His party attitude, drinking, missing training sessions. The last thing our group needs is someone who might give some latitude to boys having a good time.


I'd be worried about the fact he would have to drive clear across town to get to work. No way should he be expected to stay sober that long.

[KT31]

We have lost our McCartneyism. We have lost our cracking in, our contested footy. We need to get Brendan McCartney back as assistant coach to set the benchmarks for contested footy.

Woe let's not go out on that limb, his influence has really spurned Melbourne on.:rolleyes:
Yellow card for the quote and a red for the bringing back comment.:)

[KT31]

His party attitude, drinking, missing training sessions. The last thing our group needs is someone who might give some latitude to boys having a good time.

From all reports from a few in the know, is we already may have a couple of players who are already close to this.

[mjp]

Are things really THAT bad?

The year has been super frustrating (and my wife will tell you I missed more games in the 2nd half of this season than I have in the last 10 years combined) but haven't we all been a bit spoiled by the success of 2016?

If you want to look at 'reasons', I will point a firm finger at clearance differential and contested ball numbers...I KNOW that these aren't meaningful to Hawthorn, but they ARE meaningful to us. When we win clearances, our forward 50 entries are primarily to one-on-ones...when we DON'T win clearances, our F50 entry numbers seem similar but so many of them are to an outnumber...hence games like the Giants game, the Melbourne game when we dominate territory but simply cannot score. We don't have the players/kicking skills to find hit-ups inside a crowded f50 (Murphy retiring is going to REALLY hurt...Caleb Daniel is going to be critical and we need to give him a pay rise and find a way to keep him long long-term) after the opposition have set their defence.

It is going to be OK. Yes, there is work to be done (when isn't there) but the majority of the list is young and they haven't lost their ability...they have just lost a bit of their intent.

[Twodogs]

Are things really THAT bad?

The year has been super frustrating (and my wife will tell you I missed more games in the 2nd half of this season than I have in the last 10 years combined) but haven't we all been a bit spoiled by the success of 2016?

If you want to look at 'reasons', I will point a firm finger at clearance differential and contested ball numbers...I KNOW that these aren't meaningful to Hawthorn, but they ARE meaningful to us. When we win clearances, our forward 50 entries are primarily to one-on-ones...when we DON'T win clearances, our F50 entry numbers seem similar but so many of them are to an outnumber...hence games like the Giants game, the Melbourne game when we dominate territory but simply cannot score. We don't have the players/kicking skills to find hit-ups inside a crowded f50 (Murphy retiring is going to REALLY hurt...Caleb Daniel is going to be critical and we need to give him a pay rise and find a way to keep him long long-term) after the opposition have set their defence.

It is going to be OK. Yes, there is work to be done (when isn't there) but the majority of the list is young and they haven't lost their ability...they have just lost a bit of their intent.

You know more about strategy and coaching than I do (from me that's a huge big up, believe me) was there a bit of counter-intuitive coaching going on as well? Sometimes it seemed to me that we just did stuff because we could, that there wasn't really a good reason for making a move onfield (or not make a move) but we did it anyway.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Interesting statement when you consider what are becoming Melbournes strengths.. I've always said McCartney would make a great list manager or junior development coach.
He just wasn't a senior coach, let's face it the list that won the flag was pretty much his.
I give him a lot of credit for 2016 happening.

Ditto. Bevo inherited a team that had been drilled in the mantra of contested footy. Brendan McCartney had issues with other aspects of senior coaching - team tactics, adjusting to gameday tactics, inspiring players to back themselves. However he instilled a a non negotiable, hard at the footy, hard tackling, contested play and intensity. These are the attributes that got us the 2016 flag as well as Bevo instilling confidence in our game plan and reliance on team and your team mates backing you up.
We lost it a bit in 2017 and other teams improved at it, partly in copying us.

[LostDoggy]

I look at our forward entries in this way:

Very few marks taken on the lead. Very few contested marks taken. Very few precision lace out kicks to the forwards.
Too little space created for leads. Too many little dinky passes made under pressure to players also under pressure. Not enough defensive pressure to lock the ball in the F50. Not enough clean stoppage work to set up goals when in the F50. Poor decision making when ball in hand from the centreline forward.

Some major generalisations perhaps, but reflected the number of times I yelled as the ball was murdered going forward.

[Eastdog]

Our skills need to be better. When we turn it over and it goes against us on the counter it spells disaster.

[Twodogs]

Our skills need to be better. When we turn it over and it goes against us on the counter it spells disaster.

Yep, it falls apart real quick going the other way. We had far too many uncontested goals kicked against us.

[AndrewP6]

Are things really THAT bad?

The year has been super frustrating (and my wife will tell you I missed more games in the 2nd half of this season than I have in the last 10 years combined) but haven't we all been a bit spoiled by the success of 2016?

If you want to look at 'reasons', I will point a firm finger at clearance differential and contested ball numbers...I KNOW that these aren't meaningful to Hawthorn, but they ARE meaningful to us. When we win clearances, our forward 50 entries are primarily to one-on-ones...when we DON'T win clearances, our F50 entry numbers seem similar but so many of them are to an outnumber...hence games like the Giants game, the Melbourne game when we dominate territory but simply cannot score. We don't have the players/kicking skills to find hit-ups inside a crowded f50 (Murphy retiring is going to REALLY hurt...Caleb Daniel is going to be critical and we need to give him a pay rise and find a way to keep him long long-term) after the opposition have set their defence.

It is going to be OK. Yes, there is work to be done (when isn't there) but the majority of the list is young and they haven't lost their ability...they have just lost a bit of their intent.

This. When you win a premiership, anything less seems a dismal failure. The reality is we were in 7th spot this time last year, and exploded over the 4 final games. But by no means were we the best team over the season.

Lots of work to do, lots of things to improve on. I'll back them in.

[bornadog]

This. When you win a premiership, anything less seems a dismal failure. The reality is we were in 7th spot this time last year, and exploded over the 4 final games. But by no means were we the best team over the season.

Lots of work to do, lots of things to improve on. I'll back them in.

I think we were one of the best teams for the year. We were only 2 games off top spot, and only had one loss where we were never in it. All other losses were 4 goals or less - we were super competitive last year.

[GVGjr]

This. When you win a premiership, anything less seems a dismal failure. The reality is we were in 7th spot this time last year, and exploded over the 4 final games. But by no means were we the best team over the season.

Lots of work to do, lots of things to improve on. I'll back them in.

Finishing 7th means nothing from last year given we dropped a game late in the season and only played Essendon and Carlton once.
We were a top 4 side last year in every sense who rallied in the finals and played some great football. 15 wins would have us in the top 4 this year.

The drop off this year to the level it did shouldn't have occurred.

[mjp]

...was there a bit of counter-intuitive coaching going on as well? Sometimes it seemed to me that we just did stuff because we could, that there wasn't really a good reason for making a move onfield (or not make a move) but we did it anyway.

I have said before that a lot of the things from the coaching box (and particularly from match committee!!) seem like weird science but they did last year and the year before as well and Bevo was pretty much batting 100 back then. Why wouldn't he back himself in?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Finishing 7th means nothing from last year given we dropped a game late in the season and only played Essendon and Carlton once.
We were a top 4 side last year in every sense who rallied in the finals and played some great football. 15 wins would have us in the top 4 this year.

The drop off this year to the level it did shouldn't have occurred.

This. I get pretty tired of the "7th" statement on us last year. Both for and against us. The "amazing never to be done again" run from 7th is a fallacy. As is the whole "they finished 7th so weren't really amongst the best teams during the season". Yes winning 4 straight with 2 on the road was a great effort. But we were essentially a top 4 side. We won 15 games which typically gets you 3rd. And that was with one of the worst injury lists in the comp. This year the top team finished with 15 wins! Since 2000, a team that wins 15 games typically finishes 3rd or 4th. Also a typical 7th team since 2000 wins 12 games. The top 7 last year were so superior to the rest of the comp in comparison with other years. We missed top spot by 2 games. So that puts us as a top 4 team in any other year. But of course a lot in the industry just can't seem to look past that 7. Typical.

[Topdog]

This. I get pretty tired of the "7th" statement on us last year. Both for and against us. The "amazing never to be done again" run from 7th is a fallacy. As is the whole "they finished 7th so weren't really amongst the best teams during the season". Yes winning 4 straight with 2 on the road was a great effort. But we were essentially a top 4 side. We won 15 games which typically gets you 3rd. And that was with one of the worst injury lists in the comp. This year the top team finished with 15 wins! Since 2000, a team that wins 15 games typically finishes 3rd or 4th. Also a typical 7th team since 2000 wins 12 games. The top 7 last year were so superior to the rest of the comp in comparison with other years. We missed top spot by 2 games. So that puts us as a top 4 team in any other year. But of course a lot in the industry just can't seem to look past that 7. Typical.

Yep to be honest it is staggering to hear it from a Dogs supporter.

We finished on 60 points last year and came 7th, that would have us 4th this year on percentage.

The gap between 1st and 7th was 8 points, this year that is 14 points. This year the gap from 6th to 7th is 8 points!!!!

I think people forget we were 3rd after round 17 last year, its not like we came from no where!

[mjp]

I think people forget we were 3rd after round 17 last year, its not like we came from no where!

At the same time, this time last year we had just been belted by Freo AND personally I was trying to mentally prepare myself for what I thought was going to be a very miserable away final vs West Coast...at the conclusion of which I was going to have to catch a train ride home with 100000000 West Coast fans. We didn't come from nowhere but I don't think we were favoured in ANY of those finals we won.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

At the same time, this time last year we had just been belted by Freo AND personally I was trying to mentally prepare myself for what I thought was going to be a very miserable away final vs West Coast...at the conclusion of which I was going to have to catch a train ride home with 100000000 West Coast fans. We didn't come from nowhere but I don't think we were favoured in ANY of those finals we won.

We weren't favoured, but aside from the west coast game, i wouldn't say we were easy underdogs in any games. Reflective of the top 7 that year i suppose. Very even. Similar to the top 6 this year (although i think it's a top 5 as i'm not convinced by Port).

[Topdog]

At the same time, this time last year we had just been belted by Freo AND personally I was trying to mentally prepare myself for what I thought was going to be a very miserable away final vs West Coast...at the conclusion of which I was going to have to catch a train ride home with 100000000 West Coast fans. We didn't come from nowhere but I don't think we were favoured in ANY of those finals we won.

We werent favoured but West Coast was the only game I thought we wouldnt win. Lost to Freo by 20 points btw, not exactly belted. We were atrocious though

[Twodogs]

At the same time, this time last year we had just been belted by Freo AND personally I was trying to mentally prepare myself for what I thought was going to be a very miserable away final vs West Coast...at the conclusion of which I was going to have to catch a train ride home with 100000000 West Coast fans. We didn't come from nowhere but I don't think we were favoured in ANY of those finals we won.

I told my dyeing father we'd win the flag and to get GF tickets in July. It's not something I took lightly.
I also backed us at 17.50 to win the flag first week of the finals and I never back us. We may have finished in a dangerous spot but we were always going to win those 4 games last year. We were easily the best team in the comp at the pointy end.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Watching footy flashbacks on sunday of our prelim against GWS. It's like night and day the intensity and pressure from that game (and all finals games) compared to our efforts this season

[S Coast Simon]

It all went wrong this year in the pre season. Boys not coming back in good shape and the coaches taking it a bit easier on them as they played their guts out to win. I think a combination of the two is why we didn't go so well this year. Our premiership win is not being respected for what it was. Four amazing efforts against all odds to win an historic premiership. I've said it before, no other team in my lifetime has generated so much love for the game and love for football from all walks of life. That run last year united the football world like never before. And our thanks from the AFL for doing this for the game was they shafted us in every way they could. Cheers guys

[Topdog]

Watching footy flashbacks on sunday of our prelim against GWS. It's like night and day the intensity and pressure from that game (and all finals games) compared to our efforts this season

Yeah it is not even close. We have played about 3 quarters in 22 games that matched that intensity this season.

[ledge]

Essendon game we looked closest I thought.

[Twodogs]

Some thoughts from Nicky dal;

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/08/29/former-star-explains-why-dogs-missed-finals/

Not too many revelations or much I even disagreed with.