Jackson Trengove-welcome to the Bulldogs.

[GVGjr]

Most thought it was weird he didn’t get more game time.

We haven’t done ourselves many favours with team selection over the past few years. We haven’t been win now or develop. We’ve been treading water. Need to get it right this year.

When you move past form as the main criteria for selection then you need to have a plan for it and we have seem to been half in and half out. As you have pointed out, we stop short with development and haven't won enough to say it it's been effective.

Trengove should have played a lot more this year and who knows why the MC didn't back him more

[bulldogtragic]

Jackson gave a bit of a clip to Bevo on FB. Said Bevo refused to play him even though he was "dominating" in practice games and was playing a position of need. Interesting take. Seems Bevo can indeed be stubborn and rigid. I don’t like it

Sounds like he now regrets the move to pick us as a free agent. Cloke too since we pushed him out the door a year early to save Honeychurch. I imagine a lot of frustrated other players when his VFL players turned rookies were getting games despite in some cases painfully obvious limitations (Gowers). But Bevo likes his favourites, i guess all coaches have them though.

[comrade]

Sounds like he now regrets the move to pick us as a free agent. Cloke too since we pushed him out the door a year early to save Honeychurch. I imagine a lot of frustrated other players when his VFL players turned rookies were getting games despite in some cases painfully obvious limitations (Gowers). But Bevo likes his favourites, i guess all coaches have them though.

We're at risk of becoming a graveyard for free agents/OOC players in their late 20s - Cloke & Trengove, with Bruce not exactly tracking well.

[Grantysghost]

When you move past form as the main criteria for selection then you need to have a plan for it and we have seem to been half in and half out. As you have pointed out, we stop short with development and haven't won enough to say it it's been effective.

Trengove should have played a lot more this year and who knows why the MC didn't back him more

Considering he was doing well in 19 as a KPD, to think one game where he was forced to ruck with Tim being crook was how he lost his spot to Young it does at least raise the question of what's the plan here? Are we just reacting in the moment or is there a long term plan we are working off. Maybe a bit of both but it's a valid question.
Jackson is a vocal guy so as much as I Iike him it's better for team harmony that a disgruntled exuberant player has moved on if he's not part of the roadmap. FWIW I think this is part and parcel of most team sports and our guys seem pretty happy from what I can tell.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Jackson gave a bit of a clip to Bevo on FB. Said Bevo refused to play him even though he was "dominating" in practice games and was playing a position of need. Interesting take. Seems Bevo can indeed be stubborn and rigid. I don’t like it

Went on and had a look. He was refreshingly open and seemingly genuine with his responses to people on a wide range of questions.

Key takeaways:
-Is understandably a Power supporter (kept a close eye on them even when he was with us) and tips them to beat Richmond in the GF.
-The whole text to the question about whether he had ill will towards the Dogs: “...probably didn’t pan out as well as I would have liked mate but no Ill towards I love the boys at the club such a great bunch of boys that I’ll be friend with for a long time. I don’t think I got the opportunity from the coach that I deserved esspically this year he just refused to play me even though I was dominating in the games and we had flaws in the areas I play in. But that’s life...”
-Thinks Travis Boak, Robbie Gray, Bont, and Dunks are the most genuine people from either club.
-One interstate club offered him a year, but he wasn’t willing to move the family.
-Is looking to have a bit of a gap year before having a look at coaching
-Buddy was his most difficult opponent
-Rates Baz’s mullet and Westhoff’s beard as equals and equally out of control.
-Is a sauce in the cupboard (not fridge) guy.

[GVGjr]

Considering he was doing well in 19 as a KPD, to think one game where he was forced to ruck with Tim being crook was how he lost his spot to Young it does at least raise the question of what's the plan here? Are we just reacting in the moment or is there a long term plan we are working off. Maybe a bit of both but it's a valid question.
Jackson is a vocal guy so as much as I Iike him it's better for team harmony that a disgruntled exuberant player has moved on if he's not part of the roadmap. FWIW I think this is part and parcel of most team sports and our guys seem pretty happy from what I can tell.

He was in the leadership group in 19 as well and as good as on the scrapheap from the start of 2020
I talked to a few of the younger players in 2019 and they loved his energy and the voice he brought the locker room. They said he had a way of challenging them to try harder and get better without belittling them. A great skill from a team mate or a coach.

Hard to know why he fell out of favour but it now opens to door for some others

[Grantysghost]

Went on and had a look. He was refreshingly open and seemingly genuine with his responses to people on a wide range of questions.

Key takeaways:
-Is understandably a Power supporter (kept a close eye on them even when he was with us) and tips them to beat Richmond in the GF.
-The whole text to the question about whether he had ill will towards the Dogs: “...probably didn’t pan out as well as I would have liked mate but no Ill towards I love the boys at the club such a great bunch of boys that I’ll be friend with for a long time. I don’t think I got the opportunity from the coach that I deserved esspically this year he just refused to play me even though I was dominating in the games and we had flaws in the areas I play in. But that’s life...”
-Thinks Travis Boak, Robbie Gray, Bont, and Dunks are the most genuine people from either club.
-One interstate club offered him a year, but he wasn’t willing to move the family.
-Is looking to have a bit of a gap year before having a look at coaching
-Buddy was his most difficult opponent
-Rates Baz’s mullet and Westhoff’s beard as equals and equally out of control.
-Is a sauce in the cupboard (not fridge) guy.

This makes his position pretty clear :cool:

https://i.postimg.cc/bvL6X3Hw/Screenshot-20201226-130125-Chrome.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[bornadog]

This makes his position pretty clear :cool:

https://i.postimg.cc/bvL6X3Hw/Screenshot-20201226-130125-Chrome.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

I can reveal now, Jackson spoke to a friend of mine half way in the year and said he and Bevo don't get along. No reason given.

[comrade]

This makes his position pretty clear :cool:

https://i.postimg.cc/bvL6X3Hw/Screenshot-20201226-130125-Chrome.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

I understand his position and agree he was probably hard done by this year, but not sure what he gets from posting it all publicly.

[jeemak]

I understand his position and agree he was probably hard done by this year, but not sure what he gets from posting it all publicly.

Tend to agree.....

It was clear he was out of the coach's plans this year as he looked to develop others. We're a rebuilding list and I don't know how material his inclusion into the side or otherwise would have been to how our year ended up (well I think I do have an idea, but you don't know what you don't know).

Unfortunately in footy at all levels some players get a bit of a raw deal at different times of their careers, where others don't. Jackson looks to have gotten a bit of one this year due to circumstances and probably personalities........but that happens in any club or work environment.

[soupman]

Considering he was doing well in 19 as a KPD, to think one game where he was forced to ruck with Tim being crook was how he lost his spot to Young it does at least raise the question of what's the plan here? Are we just reacting in the moment or is there a long term plan we are working off.

Not the first time we have just seemingly changed direction with a player or gameplan with no real reasoning.

Other examples include:
-Bailey Williams doing an entire pre-season as a mid in 18 or 19, then being used exclusively as a defender from the start of the season and never really getting going.
-Aaron Naughton being our key defender for the next decade, then off one half of a JLT match we decided he was going to be our key forward for the next decade (I didn't say these were all bad changes of direction).
-Trengove being brought to the club to play as a key forward/ruck, only to be used for that in like one JLT game then never again.
-Lewis Young doing the entire pre-season 2020 (and career prior) as a promising key defender, then based on one half of a JLT game we picked him round 1 to play forward and then never saw him again (We didn't follow through but it was still weird).
-Easton Wood forward experiment, where he trained for it for a whole pre-season and it was over by round 2.
-I'm pretty sure Cordy was just thrown forward in 2016 and it worked, despite everything either side of those 2 or 3 months in his career being as a defender.

Some worked out well, others not so much, but dropping Trengove after he was a big part of our strong finish to the season on the basis of one game where he played a different position to an ok standard was odd.

[Happy Days]

Does Jackson think no one saw his game against Richmond this year?

[GVGjr]

Tend to agree.....

It was clear he was out of the coach's plans this year as he looked to develop others. We're a rebuilding list and I don't know how material his inclusion into the side or otherwise would have been to how our year ended up (well I think I do have an idea, but you don't know what you don't know).



Has that been confirmed and if so when did we start the rebuild?

[azabob]

Has that been confirmed and if so when did we start the rebuild?

Jeemak has confirmed a number of times we are rebuilding!

[hujsh]

So apparently Jackson thinking he was hard done by confirms things about Bevo as a coach. He's not exactly impartial and I'm sure he believes he should have been playing but as Happy Days alluded to this doesn't make it true.

If 'dominating' these 16 aside scratch matches accounted for much in the coaches minds I'd think Fergus would still be on the list.

[Vred]

Does Jackson think no one saw his game against Richmond this year?

Yeah.. Far from dominating.

[EasternWest]

- is a sauce in the cupboard (not fridge) guy.

I was a fan, but botulism Bob has lost me.

[jeemak]

Has that been confirmed and if so when did we start the rebuild?

You haven't heard the coach call us out as being a young list that wants to get better quickly multiple times the last year or two? Or is it that you haven't seen the churn of players and the sidelining of others for younger developing options?

Whether we should be or not is completely debatable, but we are.......and I don't think anyone at our club will ever publicly call out us having to rebuild or actively rebuilding ever again after Smorgon called out our refresh (or reset or whatever) requirements nine years ago.

[jeemak]

Jeemak has confirmed a number of times we are rebuilding!

See, aza gets it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Still think it’s a bit concerning a clubman like Jackson didn’t get on with the coach. Jackson is popular with the players and let’s not forget Dunkley had some issues there as well. I just feel where there is smoke there’s fire. B Smith is also close with Trengove and no doubt they would have spoken to eachother.

[GVGjr]

You haven't heard the coach call us out as being a young list that wants to get better quickly multiple times the last year or two? Or is it that you haven't seen the churn of players and the sidelining of others for younger developing options?

Whether we should be or not is completely debatable, but we are.......and I don't think anyone at our club will ever publicly call out us having to rebuild or actively rebuilding ever again after Smorgon called out our refresh (or reset or whatever) requirements nine years ago.

I've heard him say we are impatient to improve but I've clearly been blissfully unaware that we've been in fact rebuilding. I wonder if that will impact our memberships next year? Any idea of when the rebuild started?

This from the 13th of September this year

"Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge described his team as "impatient" and "in a hurry" as they ramp up their pursuit of a second premiership miracle in four years"

As I've always said, we're impatient, we're in a hurry, we feel like you can have dramatic improvement pretty quickly. We feel like if you've got a spirit in your team and a collective mind that you can beat anyone, then who knows what may happen. I don't think that's going to be any different.''


This from June 2019

Anyone who thinks the Western Bulldogs concede that they are in a long-winded, four-to-five-year rebuild, could be off the mark.

Coach Luke Beveridge is clearly aware of where his squad is at. But he’s also mindful that the changing face of the competition makes it hard to plan long term.

He's expecting to win and is frustrated when they aren't. And he says his players share that frustration.

The Dogs haven’t played finals since they win the premiership in 2016. And they are unlikely to do so this year either.

But Beveridge appears impatient to get back among the top teams in the competition.

And losses such as the 61-point flogging the Dogs copped from West Coast at Optus Stadium on Sunday night are an annoying speed hump in that road back to success.


I really need to stop believing in what Bevo says because that doesn't sound like a rebuild to me in fact far from it. I also understand that in his pressers he does a quick about face and then says that we are young and immature. It's confusing and conflicting statements from the coach.

But normally a rebuild would see a number of younger players coming through and persevered with more than going after the likes of Treloar, Martin, Hannan, Bruce and Keath because outside of Bailey Smith, Richards, Naughton, Vandermeer and maybe Gardner we don't seem to be 'pumping games' into many of the younger guys. West, Schache and Young being ignored in a rebuild is a bit confusing as well as why we would maintain marginal players which is more of a sign from a contending season.
I wonder if we have an issue with our footy identity? Are we genuine contenders or on another long rebuild or maybe we've got a foot in each approach?

Perhaps it's a rebuild by stealth more than us being a genuine contending side? Sounds like I could easily book my annual leave for September next year more than waiting for October. The one thing I am in full agreement with Bevo is that I'm getting impatient for a deep run in the finals especially now that somewhere along the way we've given up on that and started yet another rebuild.

[jeemak]

A rebuild doesn't just mean play the kids over an exceedingly long period does it? Teams need different things from when they end up pulling apart their lists, some struggle with youth or inexperience while some teams need more of that and vice versa.

If you figure your list can't take you to a flag for whatever reason don't you think you just take the path to make changes until you think it can? Adding Treloar, Martin and Hannan on top of Keath and Bruce last year to step in to support the youth we've been playing suggests to me we're trying to source key ingredients from different player types and demographics in a reasonably speedy but balanced way. The future will tell us whether we've gotten it right or not.

So if we've not said it plainly and publicly that's probably cool. Look back over the last three years though and it's clear we've done a bit of everything to get some ingredients into the team/ list that can hopefully help us make a progression from where we were. We lost the players we lost for different (and endlessly debatable reasons) reasons and adapting the list to account for that is a bit of a moving feast (between youth, experience and type). It's frustrating because you're right, some things just don't make sense and either haven't been explained or explained poorly and our overall communication as a club would benefit from being a bit clearer.

[GVGjr]

A rebuild doesn't just mean play the kids over an exceedingly long period does it? Teams need different things from when they end up pulling apart their lists, some struggle with youth or inexperience while some teams need more of that and vice versa.



It sort of does in my opinion. It means your focus is supposed to be on developing the younger players on your list and if you are to trade for players from other sides they mainly need to be the younger ones like we did when we traded for Schache. It goes against the rebuild mantra to recruit a 34yo ruckman from Brisbane, a 28yo key forward from the Saints, a lightly raced 28yo key defender from an under performing club like the Crows and especially not a near 28yo highly priced midfielder from Collingwood. These are strong indicators signs that the club 'thinks' it's around the mark and in the window




So if we've not said it plainly and publicly that's probably cool. Look back over the last three years though and it's clear we've done a bit of everything to get some ingredients into the team/ list that can hopefully help us make a progression from where we were. We lost the players we lost for different (and endlessly debatable reasons) reasons and adapting the list to account for that is a bit of a moving feast (between youth, experience and type). It's frustrating because you're right, some things just don't make sense and either haven't been explained or explained poorly and our overall communication as a club would benefit from being a bit clearer.

If you look at North and Collingwood they have clearly flagged their intention to start a rebuild and you can add Adelaide and Sydney to that as well.
Port have publicly and bravely said they're chasing a flag and they knew they needed to invest heavily into one draft to give the list some polish. Geelong have continued to top up because they feel they're a genuine chance and will probably start the season as favourites.
Richmond have shown the competition that they're just topping up their list and backing their system to be a contender again and Brisbane have backed the draft and then added a player like Neale to take them that extra step and the Saints changed a coach and got a few things right at the trade table and played some good football this year.

So where are we at? Are we contenders or pretenders? Will we be like Essendon or Melbourne and flirt about being around the 8 but never quite getting the job done?

Maybe we are a bit of a chameleon who makes some noise about recruiting players to help get us to the top 4 there but never quite coming out and saying it because lofty ambitions can come back and bite you. Do we prefer to have that fall back position of saying we are a young and developing team if we don't quite live up to the expectations?

[Twodogs]

I could outpace JT over 50-100 metres. That's the main reason he is no longer on an AFL list.

[bornadog]

I could outpace JT over 50-100 metres. That's the main reason he is no longer on an AFL list.

Looked shocking against Richmond.

[Happy Days]

I could outpace JT over 50-100 metres. That's the main reason he is no longer on an AFL list.

Mans not wrong. Trengove can blame Bevo as much as he likes but he was done as a player.

[jeemak]

It sort of does in my opinion. It means your focus is supposed to be on developing the younger players on your list and if you are to trade for players from other sides they mainly need to be the younger ones like we did when we traded for Schache. It goes against the rebuild mantra to recruit a 34yo ruckman from Brisbane, a 28yo key forward from the Saints, a lightly raced 28yo key defender from an under performing club like the Crows and especially not a near 28yo highly priced midfielder from Collingwood. These are strong indicators signs that the club 'thinks' it's around the mark and in the window



If you look at North and Collingwood they have clearly flagged their intention to start a rebuild and you can add Adelaide and Sydney to that as well.
Port have publicly and bravely said they're chasing a flag and they knew they needed to invest heavily into one draft to give the list some polish. Geelong have continued to top up because they feel they're a genuine chance and will probably start the season as favourites.
Richmond have shown the competition that they're just topping up their list and backing their system to be a contender again and Brisbane have backed the draft and then added a player like Neale to take them that extra step and the Saints changed a coach and got a few things right at the trade table and played some good football this year.

So where are we at? Are we contenders or pretenders? Will we be like Essendon or Melbourne and flirt about being around the 8 but never quite getting the job done?

Maybe we are a bit of a chameleon who makes some noise about recruiting players to help get us to the top 4 there but never quite coming out and saying it because lofty ambitions can come back and bite you. Do we prefer to have that fall back position of saying we are a young and developing team if we don't quite live up to the expectations?

Alright we have different views on what a rebuild can be, though I don't think we haven't focused on trying to develop younger players in line with what you think constitutes one (albeit we may not be happy as supporters with the choice of younger/ inexperienced players we've given opportunities).

Now I agree that our timing in recruitment of some mature recruits suggests that we think we are getting a bit closer to the pointy end or that our core that's evolved over the last three or so years is ready to be supplemented by some experience. We haven't turned our back on the draft at the same time, and if younger players perform they'll probably be rewarded as they have been previously.

Beyond what you see happening before your eyes I don't really understand what you want? Were Port better for Hinkley proclaiming they'd win a flag but ultimately falling short in a Preliminary final? I don't think so but if that's the type of thing that impresses you then great. We say we want to get better and do it quickly, and after finishing in the second half of the eight two seasons in a row what do you think that means?

[GVGjr]

Alright we have different views on what a rebuild can be, though I don't think we haven't focused on trying to develop younger players in line with what you think constitutes one (albeit we may not be happy as supporters with the choice of younger/ inexperienced players we've given opportunities).

Now I agree that our timing in recruitment of some mature recruits suggests that we think we are getting a bit closer to the pointy end or that our core that's evolved over the last three or so years is ready to be supplemented by some experience. We haven't turned our back on the draft at the same time, and if younger players perform they'll probably be rewarded as they have been previously.

Beyond what you see happening before your eyes I don't really understand what you want? Were Port better for Hinkley proclaiming they'd win a flag but ultimately falling short in a Preliminary final? I don't think so but if that's the type of thing that impresses you then great. We say we want to get better and do it quickly, and after finishing in the second half of the eight two seasons in a row what do you think that means?

Some honesty and clarity of where the club thinks they are.
Are we genuinely impatient for success and have gone on a recruitment and player development focus to make that happen or are we on a rebuilding phase that might take a few seasons? I'm fine with either approach but our recruitment and player development over the last 2 season doesn't line up with what I think a rebuild should look like

As for Port flagging their intentions for the season, I was a huge admirer of the way the coach turned up the pressure on the club and players and the way he put his own position on the line if they were to fall way short

Bontempelli comes out of contract at the end of 2021 and no doubt there will be some clubs throwing some money around and some promises to lure him away and I would suggest that if he knows where the club is it will be vastly easier for him to make an informed decision.

[jeemak]

Some honesty and clarity of where the club thinks they are.
Are we genuinely impatient for success and have gone on a recruitment and player development focus to make that happen or are we on a rebuilding phase that might take a few seasons? I'm fine with either approach but our recruitment and player development over the last 2 season doesn't line up with what I think a rebuild should look like

As for Port flagging their intentions for the season, I was a huge admirer of the way the coach turned up the pressure on the club and players and the way he put his own position on the line if they were to fall way short

Bontempelli comes out of contract at the end of 2021 and no doubt there will be some clubs throwing some money around and some promises to lure him away and I would suggest that if he knows where the club is it will be vastly easier for him to make an informed decision.

We've fielded very young sides since things went off the rails in 2017. The coach has also said the following lapses in games against Brisbane and Port this year:

https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/792055/inconsistency-hurts-immature-bulldogs

“We’ve played six okay quarters against Port Adelaide and Brisbane, and two diabolical ones that have cost us both games,” coach Luke Beveridge said after the game.

“That’s where we sit. We’re immature. We’re not able to drive for the 90 to 100 minutes that the game requires at the moment.

“We’re honest with ourselves in that. Our players know it. They’re beating themselves up over it a little bit.

“It’s my duty and our inspiration to support them and to drive them, and sometimes be a little bit hard on them, to find a four quarter output, which we haven’t been able to find much at all.

“We’re impatient. We want our players to be impatient. We’re trying to grow up quickly, we’re trying to be a better side quickly. We’re frustrating ourselves.”

That's pretty clear to me. You couple these sentiments with recruiting some mature players over the past couple of years in key spots and it's also pretty clear that we are trying to compete with the sides above us. Don't hold your breath for the club to publicly spell it out verbatim between now and when the season starts though.

[GVGjr]

We've fielded very young sides since things went off the rails in 2017. The coach has also said the following lapses in games against Brisbane and Port this year:

https://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/792055/inconsistency-hurts-immature-bulldogs

“We’ve played six okay quarters against Port Adelaide and Brisbane, and two diabolical ones that have cost us both games,” coach Luke Beveridge said after the game.

“That’s where we sit. We’re immature. We’re not able to drive for the 90 to 100 minutes that the game requires at the moment.

“We’re honest with ourselves in that. Our players know it. They’re beating themselves up over it a little bit.

“It’s my duty and our inspiration to support them and to drive them, and sometimes be a little bit hard on them, to find a four quarter output, which we haven’t been able to find much at all.

“We’re impatient. We want our players to be impatient. We’re trying to grow up quickly, we’re trying to be a better side quickly. We’re frustrating ourselves.”

That's pretty clear to me. You couple these sentiments with recruiting some mature players over the past couple of years in key spots and it's also pretty clear that we are trying to compete with the sides above us. Don't hold your breath for the club to publicly spell it out verbatim between now and when the season starts though.
We seems to have a couple of catchall responses to poor performances that we dole out. For everyone that says we are impatient there are comments on how we are young and immature but if we accept that we are contending I think it strengthens our chances of keeping Bontempelli

[Bulldog4life]

I could outpace JT over 50-100 metres. That's the main reason he is no longer on an AFL list.

And kick better.

[jeemak]

We seems to have a couple of catchall responses to poor performances that we dole out. For everyone that says we are impatient there are comments on how we are young and immature but if we accept that we are contending I think it strengthens our chances of keeping Bontempelli

Sure we do, but every team does and ours are usually fairly close to the mark. I mean we are young and inconsistent, and usually lapses in effort cost us. We do defend too high, we do have issues with personnel in different parts of the ground while importantly we can compete with the majority of the competition if we put all of the pieces we do have together on any day.

Sometimes I don't think we as supporters have reconciled where we thought we should be post 2016 to where we actually are. 2017 and 2018 were for different reasons a bit of a shit show and we're all disappointed that we didn't go on with things. But we didn't and we need to accept that we've had to change tack since. Part of that change has been developing a strong core built around the likes of Bont, Jacko, Libba and Hunter, Dunkley, Daniel and their vintage, and trying to supplement diminishing experience due to players lost over time.

We still have gaps though, particularly with our defence in lieu of transitioning Naughton forward and not being able to find anyone of his clear capabilities to replace him as yet. I'm unsure whether we can say or accept we're contending at the moment, we have a bit to prove for mine before we can say we are. Irrespective of any of that I'm sure Bont is fully aware of where we're placed, shouting from the rooftops that we're ready to be considered as contending isn't going to help keep him, especially if it isn't true.

[Twodogs]

And kick better.

Probably not after sprinting 100 metres. I'd be more likely to pull my hamstring off the bone than anything at my age.

I could teach him to kick better than me though.

[Bulldog4life]

Probably not after sprinting 100 metres. I'd be more likely to pull my hamstring off the bone than anything at my age.

I could teach him to kick better than me though.

Such an awkward Kicking style.

[mjp]

It sort of does in my opinion. It means your focus is supposed to be on developing the younger players on your list and if you are to trade for players from other sides they mainly need to be the younger ones like we did when we traded for Schache. It goes against the rebuild mantra to recruit a 34yo ruckman from Brisbane, a 28yo key forward from the Saints, a lightly raced 28yo key defender from an under performing club like the Crows and especially not a near 28yo highly priced midfielder from Collingwood. These are strong indicators signs that the club 'thinks' it's around the mark and in the window


Our recruiting this year has made no sense at all. NONE.

1/. Another player (Treloar) where we are already strong. AND where we have young players (high draft picks) who SHOULD be ready to contribute...now what happens to them?
2/. Another ageing ruckman to replace our last ageing ruckman who the coach refused to play. Like for Like if you like...but we didn't like the last one of them we had (or the one before that for that matter - Campbell). So...what's changed?
3/. Another mid-sized forward (Hannan) who doesn't really crumb and doesn't have a lot of tricks. Whilst I acknowledge he has aggression (missing in the games of Lloyd and Dale) he is not exactly a proven ball winner. Like the Lloyd selection a couple of years ago - and like St Kilda recruiting Crouch this year before all the leaves shook off the trees (aka Treloar) - I don't know why we had to commit to this selection seemingly months before the trade period...register an interest? Sure. But we seem to do more than that...

I guess this off-season was all about JUH and I get it, but overall I agree with the points on this thread from GVGjr and I don't understand what we are doing. Furthermore:

1/. If we are going to keep Schache....PLAY HIM.
2/. If we are going to keep Young....PLAY HIM.
3/. If we are going to keep Dale....PLAY HIM.

As for the La Young debacle, well, enough has been said about that already.

[GVGjr]

Our recruiting this year has made no sense at all. NONE.

1/. Another player (Treloar) where we are already strong. AND where we have young players (high draft picks) who SHOULD be ready to contribute...now what happens to them?
2/. Another ageing ruckman to replace our last ageing ruckman who the coach refused to play. Like for Like if you like...but we didn't like the last one of them we had (or the one before that for that matter - Campbell). So...what's changed?
3/. Another mid-sized forward (Hannan) who doesn't really crumb and doesn't have a lot of tricks. Whilst I acknowledge he has aggression (missing in the games of Lloyd and Dale) he is not exactly a proven ball winner. Like the Lloyd selection a couple of years ago - and like St Kilda recruiting Crouch this year before all the leaves shook off the trees (aka Treloar) - I don't know why we had to commit to this selection seemingly months before the trade period...register an interest? Sure. But we seem to do more than that...

I guess this off-season was all about JUH and I get it, but overall I agree with the points on this thread from GVGjr and I don't understand what we are doing. Furthermore:

1/. If we are going to keep Schache....PLAY HIM.
2/. If we are going to keep Young....PLAY HIM.
3/. If we are going to keep Dale....PLAY HIM.

As for the La Young debacle, well, enough has been said about that already.

The addition of Treloar made more sense if we had have let Dunkley go but I'm glad we didn't. It will be interesting to see how we spread the midfield minutes. We've got a bit stronger in an area we were already strong and to me we've flagged that we are pushing towards a top 4 finish

Martin makes a little bit of sense in that he can work with and improve English and Sweet. If we are in a rebuild phase then it doesn't make a lot of sense

12 months ago we said we could play 3 tall forwards but only played 2. I suspect Hannan will be our 3rd tall in 2021

We should be playing Schache but unless we move Bruce or Naughton to the back line we probably won't
Young has to get in front of both Wood and Cordy if he is to earn his spot which is a big ask. I'm assuming Gardner is ahead of him
I'm not sure how things play out for Dale. He has the talent but he needs to be more consistent

Fascinating to see how we set up in 2021

[Sedat]

The recruitment of Trengove was either a big failure of the coaching/match committee or a big failure of the recruiting/list management team. Either way it was a big failure.

[Twodogs]

Our recruiting this year has made no sense at all. NONE.

1/. Another player (Treloar) where we are already strong. AND where we have young players (high draft picks) who SHOULD be ready to contribute...now what happens to them?
2/. Another ageing ruckman to replace our last ageing ruckman who the coach refused to play. Like for Like if you like...but we didn't like the last one of them we had (or the one before that for that matter - Campbell). So...what's changed?.

Minson was All Australian one year and their wasn't a spot for him the next year either.

Trealor I understand. There are always injuries and you can never have enough good players on the list, I'm happy for us to have 25 miles on the list because you'll always find a spot for all the ones in form and who aren't nursing something.

I don't really understand the recruitment of another aged ruckman. If we play Martin in the ruck then he prevents the development of one of our best assets-English the ruckman. We can say "but we can play English forward" but can we? That prevents the development of another weapon Jamara the forward. To my eye (and I understand it's frustrating) is we have to play English in the ruck. It's the only way he will develop to the stage we want him to. Playing in the ruck is the only way I've ever seen a ruckman, apart from Luke Darcy and we didn't have a tall forward at that stage he was keeping out of the side AND Darce could actually play forward-now we have 3, develop.

[bornadog]

The recruitment of Trengove was either a big failure of the coaching/match committee or a big failure of the recruiting/list management team. Either way it was a big failure.

Yep, it happens sometimes. However at the time we needed someone and he was in good form at Port, so we took the chance with no one else really available.

[bornadog]

I have enjoyed the debate between GVGjr and Jeemak.

I will say, even though the club won't admit it, we have had to rebuild our team after losing so much experience to retirement, plus delistings, trades etc over the past 3 years. It has been a soft rebuild, but it has been slowly happening.

I think we are in a good position with a couple of holes that still need filling, but we can manufacture something if we have to.

Guys like Young, Gardner, have got to take their chances and make KPD theirs, it is there for the taking.

[GVGjr]

I have enjoyed the debate between GVGjr and Jeemak.

I will say, even though the club won't admit it, we have had to rebuild our team after losing so much experience to retirement, plus delistings, trades etc over the past 3 years. It has been a soft rebuild, but it has been slowly happening.

I think we are in a good position with a couple of holes that still need filling, but we can manufacture something if we have to.

Guys like Young, Gardner, have got to take their chances and make KPD theirs, it is there for the taking.

So the rebuild started 3 years ago BAD?
And why don't you think the club would admit it?

[Danjul]

I have enjoyed the debate between GVGjr and Jeemak.

I will say, even though the club won't admit it, we have had to rebuild our team after losing so much experience to retirement, plus delistings, trades etc over the past 3 years. It has been a soft rebuild, but it has been slowly happening.

I think we are in a good position with a couple of holes that still need filling, but we can manufacture something if we have to.

Guys like Young, Gardner, have got to take their chances and make KPD theirs, it is there for the taking.

Sorry, but I don’t agree.

In the last four seasons of home and away games (about 85 matches) we have spent a total of 2 weekends in the top 4 on the ladder.

This season we spent 3 weeks in the bottom 4 but only 2 weeks in the top 7. In the last three seasons we have spent only 6 weekends in the top 7. (4,5,6,7,7,7)

No cause for optimism there. We are a model of consistency. 70% of our time is spent hovering between 8th and 14th.

In fact, Considering the players we have had on the list I just cannot figure out how we have been so bad recently.

[Vred]

Minson was All Australian one year and their wasn't a spot for him the next year either.

Trealor I understand. There are always injuries and you can never have enough good players on the list, I'm happy for us to have 25 miles on the list because you'll always find a spot for all the ones in form and who aren't nursing something.

I don't really understand the recruitment of another aged ruckman. If we play Martin in the ruck then he prevents the development of one of our best assets-English the ruckman. We can say "but we can play English forward" but can we? That prevents the development of another weapon Jamara the forward. To my eye (and I understand it's frustrating) is we have to play English in the ruck. It's the only way he will develop to the stage we want him to. Playing in the ruck is the only way I've ever seen a ruckman, apart from Luke Darcy and we didn't have a tall forward at that stage he was keeping out of the side AND Darce could actually play forward-now we have 3, develop.


I'm still not sold that English is our long term ruck, I hope he proves me wrong but I honestly don't see him EVER beating Grundy/Gawn at their game.

[josie]

I'm still not sold that English is our long term ruck, I hope he proves me wrong but I honestly don't see him EVER beating Grundy/Gawn at their game.

Me either.

[bornadog]

So the rebuild started 3 years ago BAD?
And why don't you think the club would admit it?

Yes after the 2017 season when we lost so many players.

Clubs rarely admit they are having a rebuild. They want the optimism to be kept alive with fans, but sometimes like North, you have to bite the bullet and just go for it.

[bornadog]

I'm still not sold that English is our long term ruck, I hope he proves me wrong but I honestly don't see him EVER beating Grundy/Gawn at their game.

At the same age, Gawn was behind English - statistically



Player Statistics Comparison





Timothy English (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-western-bulldogs--timothy-english)
Name
Max Gawn (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp-melbourne-demons--max-gawn)


Western Bulldogs (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-western-bulldogs)
Team
Melbourne Demons (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-melbourne-demons)


Ruck
Position
Ruck


47
Career Games
134


South Fremantle
Origin
Sandringham Dragons


August 10, 1997
Date of Birth
December 30, 1991


23yr 4mth
Age
Turned 23 in 2014


205cm
Height
208cm


93kg
Weight
109kg


2016 National Draft (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2016&t=N&s=P)
Last Drafted In
2009 National Draft (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_drafts?year=2009&t=N&s=P)


Round 1, Pick #19
Last Draft Position
Round 3, Pick #34


Western Bulldogs (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-western-bulldogs)
Last Drafted By
Melbourne Demons (https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/th-melbourne-demons)


2020
Stats for Season
2014


18
Games
9


7.2
Kicks
4.3


6.3
Handballs
6.2


13.4
Disposals
10.6


4.3
Marks
4.2


0.4
Goals
0.4


0.6
Behinds
0.6


2.2
Tackles
1.2


16.0
Hitouts
14.8


1.7
Inside 50s
0.9


0.1
Goal Assists
0.3


1.0
Frees For
0.3


1.0
Frees Against
1.0


6.8
Contested Possessions
5.3


7.2
Uncontested Possessions
5.2


9.6
Effective Disposals
8.2


71.6%
Disposal Efficiency %
77.4%


2.1
Clangers
1.4


1.3
Contested Marks
1.9


0.7
Marks Inside 50
0.4


2.2
Clearances
0.6


0.8
Rebound 50s
0.3


2.8
One Percenters
1.3


0.1
Bounces
0


87.6
Time On Ground %
71.7


0.8
Centre Clearances



1.4
Stoppage Clearances



3.8
Score Involvements



163.1
Metres Gained



1.9
Turnovers



2.8
Intercepts



0.3
Tackles Inside 50



72.8
AFL Fantasy Score
58.3


102.1
Supercoach Score
63.2

[GVGjr]

Yes after the 2017 season when we lost so many players.

Clubs rarely admit they are having a rebuild. They want the optimism to be kept alive with fans, but sometimes like North, you have to bite the bullet and just go for it.

So they want to sell a positive message rather than deliver an accurate one? Doesn't seem to be the best way to embrace the supporter base.

I'll have a closer look at our trades, departures and drafts from 2017 because I don't think it quite aligns with a rebuild. We knew Murphy and Matthew Boyd were at the end of their fantastic career's and we knew there was a significant doubt on Tom Boyd's back injury and should have addressed that. I think in reality our coaching had a gap year in 2017 and let the players attitude slide and it took a couple of seasons to get them back on board and focused. The conduct of some of our players in 2017 and 2018 was appalling and our coaches didn't address it correctly. I suspect we moved a lot of players on for discipline issues more than a planned rebuild.

[bornadog]

So they want to sell a positive message rather than deliver an accurate one? Doesn't seem to be the best way to embrace the supporter base.

I am only guessing, but it is true, rarely do any clubs admit a rebuild.


we knew there was a significant doubt on Tom Boyd's back injury and should have addressed that.

Not sure why you keep talking about Tom's Back. Tom already stated in interviews as well as Mike Sheahan's show Öpen mike", that he had mental health issues and lost the passion for playing football. - watch here (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-18/tom-boyd-speaks-about-his-mental-health-struggles/11522746?nw=0). He did have back issues, but seemed to be managing it as he was prepared to play season 2019 after going through a preseason.


I'll have a closer look at our trades, departures and drafts from 2017

When you look at that you need to also look at the injury lists those years, as we had a large proportion of senior players on the list and we were forced to play a lot of young players with limited experience.

When you look at 2017 closer we won 11 lost 11 and lost 4 games by 9 points or less - we did win a couple of close ones too, so should have made finals.


I think in reality our coaching had a gap year in 2017 and let the players attitude slide and it took a couple of seasons to get them back on board and focused. The conduct of some of our players in 2017 and 2018 was appalling and our coaches didn't address it correctly. I suspect we moved a lot of players on for discipline issues more than a planned rebuild.

I don't agree in a gap year, but if it was, then no wonder after not winning a premiership for 62 years.

The discipline issues was only a couple of players - Stringer, Dahl and maybe it did effect all the players, but I don't see it as an excuse.

The fact remains we lost experienced players in Murphy, MBoyd, Morris, Picken - traded Roughead, Stringer, Dahl, Hamling, Biggs and Tom Boyd retired and were left with playing the youngest team in the AFL for 2017 and 2018. I know you don't like using the youngest team as an excuse, but, the fact is no teams that young week after week win lots of games in the history of the AFL.

We only have 10 premiership players left on the list and only 3 or 4 are playing for other teams. The only one I miss is Hamling. So we had to rebuild our list, but it has been a slowly slowly soft rebuild.

[Twodogs]

I'm still not sold that English is our long term ruck, I hope he proves me wrong but I honestly don't see him EVER beating Grundy/Gawn at their game.


Me either.

I have every confidence that he will put on the necessary mass in the middle of his body and in his legs to compete with the bigger guys. He's one of the best ruck prospects I've seen at his age. His pace and athleticism sets him apart and gives him a real point of difference.

[Danjul]

I have every confidence that he will put on the necessary mass in the middle of his body and in his legs to compete with the bigger guys. He's one of the best ruck prospects I've seen at his age. His pace and athleticism sets him apart and gives him a real point of difference.
Exactly, and playing him in the ruck so often and so young has wasted a lot of this.

[GVGjr]

Not sure why you keep talking about Tom's Back. Tom already stated in interviews as well as Mike Sheahan's show Öpen mike", that he had mental health issues and lost the passion for playing football. - watch here (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-18/tom-boyd-speaks-about-his-mental-health-struggles/11522746?nw=0). He did have back issues, but seemed to be managing it as he was prepared to play season 2019 after going through a preseason.


You know he was seeking advice overseas to fix his back don't you? I don't think he had the confidence of our medical department to find a solution and he missed a fair chunk of the season because of it. We also knew about his mental health challenges (and later with Travis Cloke) I just find it intriguing that knowing he had an issue with his back that curtailed his season we didn't look to the draft or trade period late that year to provide some coverage.

[kruder]

Wow this one is quite a passionate discussion.

I would have played Jackson a little more If it was my choice but at the same time and we debated it at the time we payed 1.2mill for player that was consistently playing state based football. He was on the decline well and truly before he got the kennel and for what ever reason was never able to recapture that form.

The standard line goes, you have pay overs to get someone out but a reserves based player? Jackson has been payed well he just needs to move on with his life enjoy his Family.

[bornadog]

Wow this one is quite a passionate discussion.

I would have played Jackson a little more If it was my choice but at the same time and we debated it at the time we payed 1.2mill for player that was consistently playing state based football. He was on the decline well and truly before he got the kennel and for what ever reason was never able to recapture that form.

The standard line goes, you have pay overs to get someone out but a reserves based player? Jackson has been payed well he just needs to move on with his life enjoy his Family.

Other than this year, Jackson played on average 19 games throughout 2010 to 2019 - ie over 10 years. Not sure where you got that statement from? If you are talking just 2020, fine.

[jeemak]

His return of games for us was solid in 2018 and 2019.......given he was probably just OK for a lot of them. He came to us having had some patchy form at Port, and with the type of player he is he was always a chance of being up against it for a spot in the side in his last year.

That's not to say he shouldn't have been given more of a go in 2020.

[Twodogs]

Exactly, and playing him in the ruck so often and so young has wasted a lot of this.

I was lazy and didn't finish the sentence. The full sentence would have said that Tim's point of difference is compared "to ruckmen like Grundy and Gawn" English will get stronger. Grundy and Gawn won't get anymore athletic. Every time Tim learns a new trick in the ruck (or like Gawn says "that's ruck craft, baby") it's money in the bank for us. He can run them around and compete better for ground balls than them.

Besides we have to get games into Marra to learn forward craft. We can't do that if English is down there. Footy is pretty simple. Get good players and play them where they're best suited. That means English in the ruck and Marra and Naughton forward. For me Martin is one too many and will hinder English's development.

[kruder]

Other than this year, Jackson played on average 19 games throughout 2010 to 2019 - ie over 10 years. Not sure where you got that statement from? If you are talking just 2020, fine.

I'm not talking average games Jackson played his best football long before he got to the dogs hence why he ended up in the reserves at Port. He was basically just a fringe player but earlier in his career he was a lot better than that.

[bornadog]

I'm not talking average games Jackson played his best football long before he got to the dogs hence why he ended up in the reserves at Port. He was basically just a fringe player but earlier in his career he was a lot better than that.

He only played a couple of games in the reserves.

Senior games at Port

2017 - 19
2016 - 21
2015 - 15 ( injured part year)
2014 - 20

[Danjul]

I'm not talking average games Jackson played his best football long before he got to the dogs hence why he ended up in the reserves at Port. He was basically just a fringe player but earlier in his career he was a lot better than that.
I could be wrong but my recollection of 2019 is:
when Trengove and Schache played the Dogs won, when they were omitted the Dogs lost.

They were both in the team for most of that run into the finals.

[Grantysghost]

He only played a couple of games in the reserves.

Senior games at Port

2017 - 19
2016 - 21
2015 - 15 ( injured part year)
2014 - 20

He was dropped just before finals for Port, then the same thing happened with us. Probably not great for the confidence.
No one has ever said he's Matthew Scarlett or Polly Farmer but it's a fair question to ask why he wasn't getting a game when we were struggling in the area he plays. Maybe he was just past it, maybe he had a falling out with the coach. Maybe both.

[The Underdog]

I could be wrong but my recollection of 2019 is:
when Trengove and Schache played the Dogs won, when they were omitted the Dogs lost.

They were both in the team for most of that run into the finals.

We were 9-7 with Trengove in, 8-6 with Schache, so roughly in line with our 12-10 finish.
5-3 with both in together from my count, but I had to do that manually so I might be wrong.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I was lazy and didn't finish the sentence. The full sentence would have said that Tim's point of difference is compared "to ruckmen like Grundy and Gawn" English will get stronger. Grundy and Gawn won't get anymore athletic. Every time Tim learns a new trick in the ruck (or like Gawn says "that's ruck craft, baby") it's money in the bank for us. He can run them around and compete better for ground balls than them.

Besides we have to get games into Marra to learn forward craft. We can't do that if English is down there. Footy is pretty simple. Get good players and play them where they're best suited. That means English in the ruck and Marra and Naughton forward. For me Martin is one too many and will hinder English's development.
English after 4 years is yet to prove he is going to make it as a key ruck man. He may well prove to be a better key forward given his aerial and ground skills. Martin has proved to be a good ruck man for a number of years with the Lions and will take a lot of pressure off English and provide far more versatility for the team.

[jeemak]

English after 4 years is yet to prove he is going to make it as a key ruck man. He may well prove to be a better key forward given his aerial and ground skills. Martin has proved to be a good ruck man for a number of years with the Lions and will take a lot of pressure off English and provide far more versatility for the team.

Only if we actually play Martin will he provide that versatility. It will be a big change for the MC if they start playing Martin as a specialist ruck with English as back up, but not necessarily an unwelcome one.

But if they do, it creates problems for our forward line given the strange and unusual situation we find ourselves in where we have a surplus of talls in the area that can actually play league footy, with one just drafted as the number one pick who probably will be able to give it a crack as well in a reasonable amount of time.

It's not a bad problem to have. And possibly might give us some flexibility in defence should we choose to balance the time of each of Naughton and Bruce with some defencive responsibilities if the opposition we face week to week requires a change to match up with. Naughton in particular could be the best swing man going around.

Who'd have thought some Jackson Trengove social media quotes would turn into this! Great stuff.

[jeemak]

The recruitment of Trengove was either a big failure of the coaching/match committee or a big failure of the recruiting/list management team. Either way it was a big failure.

He played two seasons of sixteen games with the odd hurdle in 2018 and 2019, and fell out of favour this year when seemingly from the one shot he got deteriorating physically. I get that's not great, though not sure that constitutes a big failure from either the coaching/ MC or the recruting/ list management folks at the club.

Did we overpay him (what were we paying him, $400K a year)? Possibly, and given Port didn't match the bid they either thought we were or thought his best footy was well and truly behind him and didn't think he was worth hanging on to - irrespective of his much vaunted leadership capabilities. At the end of the day he was a guy who could play AFL footy for us in areas of need and in his last year it turned out we preferred others.

[GVGjr]

He played two seasons of sixteen games with the odd hurdle in 2018 and 2019, and fell out of favour this year when seemingly from the one shot he got deteriorating physically. I get that's not great, though not sure that constitutes a big failure from either the coaching/ MC or the recruting/ list management folks at the club.

Did we overpay him (what were we paying him, $400K a year)? Possibly, and given Port didn't match the bid they either thought we were or thought his best footy was well and truly behind him and didn't think he was worth hanging on to - irrespective of his much vaunted leadership capabilities. At the end of the day he was a guy who could play AFL footy for us in areas of need and in his last year it turned out we preferred others.

Was it just under 1.1M over 3 years? I think we got a reasonable return for his services albeit the coach wouldn't play him this year
I think Port were happy to keep him but there was a realization that Westhoff was ahead of him as a defender and spare parts tall and Marshall ahead of him to partner Dixon up forward. They also had some depth in the ruck
I still recall our poor start to the 2019 season and the turnaround with our on field performances when Trengove returned to back line and Dunkley to the midfield. I think he still had something to offer us this year but he wasn't really given a chance with Gardner and of course Keath the preferred options.

[comrade]

Trenners was just a bad fit all round. Didn't fit Bevo's versatile defender preference, and wasn't good enough as a ruckman to really make a difference.

I still believe we'd have won the final against St Kilda if Trengove played instead of Josh Bruce (English pushing forward more, Trengove neutralizing Ryder to a bigger extent than English was able to).

In fact, I think if we swapped Trengove and Bruce in 2020, we'd have been better off in general (but that says more about Bruce than it does about Trengove.)

[Danjul]

Only if we actually play Martin will he provide that versatility. It will be a big change for the MC if they start playing Martin as a specialist ruck with English as back up, but not necessarily an unwelcome one.

But if they do, it creates problems for our forward line given the strange and unusual situation we find ourselves in where we have a surplus of talls in the area that can actually play league footy, with one just drafted as the number one pick who probably will be able to give it a crack as well in a reasonable amount of time.

It's not a bad problem to have. And possibly might give us some flexibility in defence should we choose to balance the time of each of Naughton and Bruce with some defencive responsibilities if the opposition we face week to week requires a change to match up with. Naughton in particular could be the best swing man going around.

Who'd have thought some Jackson Trengove social media quotes would turn into this! Great stuff.

You have pointed out a glaring problem here. This flexibility has been missing from the selected teams for some time.

We always played ‘xxxxxx’ in role ‘yyyyy’ . Player ‘xxxxx’ could be Bruce, Daniel, English etc. Opposition teams plan their tactics and we are very slow to adjust during the game. Look what happened when Daniel was finally moved during the final.

The flexibility we have sought has been ‘anyone can ruck ‘ ( think Dunkley, ,Schache, Bruce...), and it has failed every time. The flexibility we need is based upon what the players can actually do.

Carefully Using Martin (and Sweet?) opens up massive opportunities if we adopt your ‘flexibility ‘ mindset.

[Danjul]

Trenners was just a bad fit all round. Didn't fit Bevo's versatile defender preference, and wasn't good enough as a ruckman to really make a difference.

I still believe we'd have won the final against St Kilda if Trengove played instead of Josh Bruce (English pushing forward more, Trengove neutralizing Ryder to a bigger extent than English was able to).

In fact, I think if we swapped Trengove and Bruce in 2020, we'd have been better off in general (but that says more about Bruce than it does about Trengove.)
I went up to Ballarat in 2019 and saw Trengove ruck singlehandly against Martin and McIrnerney. He had 27 hitouts, they had more. But he had as many disposals as his 2 opponents combined. He was a huge factor in our unexpected win, and the team’s confidence lifted noticeably.

He also rucked against two opponents the following week against Geelong and performed well.

[GVGjr]

I went up to Ballarat in 2019 and saw Trengove ruck singlehandly against Martin and McIrnerney. He had 27 hitouts, they had more. But he had as many disposals as his 2 opponents combined. He was a huge factor in our unexpected win, and the team’s confidence lifted noticeably.

He also rucked against two opponents the following week against Geelong and performed well.

There are clearly differing views on a ruckman's performances amongst our members here. What we would see as a positive performance from English could easily been seen as an average one from Trengove
I was at that game as well and thought he was a good performer on the day. He was very much a spare parts player for us but I also think he was underutilized this year. Anyway we have moved on and I look forward to seeing what Martin brings us both in terms of his ruck work and helping English and Sweet develop.

[Twodogs]

There are clearly differing views on a ruckman's performances amongst our members here. What we would see as a positive performance from English could easily been seen as an average one from Trengove
I was at that game as well and thought he was a good performer on the day. He was very much a spare parts player for us but I also think he was underutilized this year. Anyway we have moved on and I look forward to seeing what Martin brings us both in terms of his ruck work and helping English and Sweet develop.

It'd be pretty boring if we all agreed. I think the differing opinions that Danjul and Kruder and a few others have bought to this thread (and a few other threads) have made it/them pretty interesting this off season.

[jeemak]

It'd be pretty boring if we all agreed. I think the differing opinions that Danjul and Kruder and a few others have bought to this thread (and a few other threads) have made it/them pretty interesting this off season.

This is me logging onto WOOF and finding out everyone agrees with me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIpev8JXJHQ

Thankfully it rarely happens!

[Twodogs]

This is me logging onto WOOF and finding out everyone agrees with me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIpev8JXJHQ

Thankfully it rarely happens!

Yeah, nah, it never happens with me.

However I will agree that Being John Malkovich is an amazing film.

[Go_Dogs]

This is me logging onto WOOF and finding out everyone agrees with me:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIpev8JXJHQ

Thankfully it rarely happens!

We’re not doing a rebuild.




Great discussion team. Appreciate it.

[bornadog]

We’re not doing a rebuild.




Great discussion team. Appreciate it.

Because it is almost complete:)