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Throughandthrough
01-10-2017, 05:47 PM
Richmond’s win was great for Tiger fans but troubling for the AFL


AFL
October 1, 2017 7:55am
by JAI BEDNALL
Source: news.com.au

OPINION

THE AFL head honchos sat back with Cheshire cat-like grins during a minor round that featured more shock upsets and nailbiting finishes than any season in recent memory.

But its success in creating an equalised competition was followed by an absolute flop of a finals series where just one of eight games was decided by less than six goals.

Not only did September suck, there is also a distinct feeling among fans not wearing yellow and black (or red, white and blue last season) the AFL has produced two pretty ordinary premiers in the past two seasons.

Richmond, and the Western Bulldogs a year ago, captured the imagination of the footy world with the fairytale runs to the flag. The Tigers’ record rise from 13th on the ladder a season ago was just as unlikely as the Dogs winning from seventh place in 2016.

But will they be remembered as champion sides or just teams that found form at the right time and made the most of advantageous situations?

The Dogs feel like a bit of a flash in the pan after they fell all the way to 10th while trying to defend their premiership. A similar drop by the Tigers would be stunning but its telling they’re viewed as $8 outsiders today to go back-to-back — well behind Adelaide ($4.50), GWS ($4.50) and Sydney ($5.50) in the premiership market.

An even competition keeps fans of all clubs engaged longer during the minor round but it feels like it’s hurting the final product too.

The league doesn’t want a situation like the English Premier League where only a handful of clubs have a sniff each year — or the NBA where the league’s best players are being concentrated at a few locations.

But you also want a grand final product that highlights the very best of your game and a winner that can be celebrated for being a genuinely brilliant football team. It’s debatable whether the Tigers fit this description.

Dustin Martin and Alex Rance are champions in any era and Trent Cotchin and Jack Riewoldt are fine players. But remember when it used to take a midfield of Voss, Akermanis, Black and Lappin or Judd, Cousins and Kerr to win a flag?

In terms of game style, you can hardly argue Richmond’s win was a win for entertaining football either.

It’s a little overblown but coaches often look to the reigning premier when deciding what additions to make to their gameplan over summer.

What’s the lesson from the Tigers? Surround a few stars with a bunch of battlers and just pressure the bejesus out of the opposition.

There’s nothing wrong with contested ball remaining king but a Crows win would have been a win for attacking, high-scoring footy. Instead the grinders won out and the game’s highlight reel was stunningly short.

The game didn’t exactly bode well for players standing 194cm or higher either. There’s always going to be room for one ruckman but if key forwards can’t get a kick on grand final day what’s the point of playing them (and in turn the key defenders that follow them around)?

The biggest winner from season 2017 is probably the coaching fraternity. Hardwick’s ability to move from the hangman’s noose to the premiership dais in less than 12 months will have boards everywhere pulling back their trigger finger when faced with the decision on whether to sack their coaches.

VICTORIAN BIAS? IT’S HARD TO ARGUE WITH THESE NUMBERS

Richmond made it five wins for Victorian sides against interstate opponents in the past five grand finals.

Adelaide joined Sydney (2014, 2016), West Coast (2015), and Fremantle (2014) in failing to fire at the MCG in the big one.

If you want to look back a little further, Sydney — with a 10-point win against Hawthorn in 2012 — is the only interstate team since the great Lions sides of the early 2000s to defeat a Victorian opponent in a grand final.

The AFL is left with a perception problem until this rot ends. It’s telling that its past four premiers all defeated a travelling opponent which finished higher on the ladder.

There’s no doubt Richmond played the ground better than the Crows, who only produced one convincing performance in four games at the home of football in 2017.

There were also plenty of SA-based fans crying of umpiring bias after the game — and while even the most diehard supporters should be able to admit it didn’t have a serious impact on the final result — there’s plenty of coaches out there who talk about the impact a noisy crowd can have on the whistleblowers.

So what’s the solution?

Rotating the grand final Super Bowl-style isn’t going to happen any time soon because the game’s future at the MCG is locked up for another 20 years.

But the powers-that-be need a team from SA, WA, NSW or Queensland to win again soon to silence calls like those that came from retiring Eagle Sam Butler on Saturday.

“I’m looking for equality in the AFL and we haven’t had it ... there’s still that VFL boys club in the back pulling the strings,” Butler told Triple M.

“I’m telling you what, the MCG — fair enough it’s the biggest stadium in Australia, but why do we have to have the grand final there every year? Tell me one reason ...

“Rotate it. Do it per capita on how many teams are there, so half the teams are in Melbourne, you should have half the grand finals in Melbourne. You’ve got two teams in Perth ... they should have two every 18 years.”


If anyone disagrees with Jai, his twitter handle is @jaibednall

Yes, he's a South Australian

AndrewP6
01-10-2017, 05:59 PM
Read this earlier. I found Butler's comments particularly amusing/ridiculous. He asks for one reason why the MCG is used for the grand final every year, whilst acknowledging it is the biggest stadium - answering his own question in the process.

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
01-10-2017, 06:04 PM
I think i found Greg Baum's article equally as dismissive of our win last year.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-grand-final-2017-richmond-tigers-see-the-western-bulldogs-and-raise-them-one-20170930-gyrv8h.html

Rocco Jones
01-10-2017, 06:05 PM
It is like being the poorest billionaire. Who cares?

bulldogtragic
01-10-2017, 06:07 PM
It is like being the poorest billionaire. Who cares?

I care.

Rocco Jones
01-10-2017, 06:28 PM
I care.

Do you care about journos thinking that or what we are actually what they say we are?

I think the comp is as open as ever in terms of winning a premiership. We won, the semantics and objective manner of comparing premiers is banal to me.

Either way we will see how good we are era wise in the next year or so.

bulldogtragic
01-10-2017, 06:37 PM
Do you care about journos thinking that or what we are actually what they say we are?

I think the comp is as open as ever in terms of winning a premiership. We won, the semantics and objective manner of comparing premiers is banal to me.

Either way we will see how good we are era wise in the next year or so.

You have me wrong, I care what you all think of me as the poorest billionaire.

ledge
01-10-2017, 07:16 PM
I am not going to go through all the problems and records we broke last year, we all know them and no other club had faced those hurdles in the history of the AFL and won it, I think they left out the EXTR on the front of ordinary in the headline.
Richmond followed our lead with small forwards, won it from 4 th and had no injuries !
I'm not sure how anything compares to our premiership and truely believe that is why the crowds came back in droves due to such a huge finals run and hope we gave to every other team in the competition.
But we won't mention that and make up some crap story that has no facts to belittle a small club that defied the big clubs and they are jealous.

Bulldog4life
01-10-2017, 08:24 PM
I think i found Greg Baum's article equally as dismissive of our win last year.
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-grand-final-2017-richmond-tigers-see-the-western-bulldogs-and-raise-them-one-20170930-gyrv8h.html

I tweeted him and told him he missed one important piece in regards to the Bulldogs and Richmond's years. We won the premiership in the VFL too the same year. Richmond didn't. One up to the Bulldogs.

hujsh
01-10-2017, 08:33 PM
So 2 years after a 3 peat there's a complaint that there are no more extraordinary teams? Goldfish journalism I think

ledge
01-10-2017, 08:37 PM
I tweeted him and told him he missed one important piece in regards to the Bulldogs and Richmond's years. We won the premiership in the VFL too the same year. Richmond didn't. One up to the Bulldogs.

I hope Bevo pulls that article out for the players to read and fire up on.

The bulldog tragician
01-10-2017, 08:39 PM
This from Greg Baum did annoy me-

"The monkey on the 2016 Bulldogs' back was older, but Richmond's was bigger, as the club is bigger"

It is constantly dismissed that we won four finals, two interstate, one against a triple premiership winning team. We did this even though our long term injuries, including to a captain, were appalling, and with a young list who should have found it even harder to win four gruelling finals.

Honestly, it is still extraordinarily hard to win a flag. Look at our struggles in 08-10, where being a top four team playing at the G each week we still couldn't grab a flag. Ok, don't look at it, those missed opportunities still hurt, but please just respect that our achievement last year was monumental, the Tigers is too but in different ways, instead of grinding all the joy and magic out of everything!!!

ledge
01-10-2017, 09:06 PM
This from Greg Baum did annoy me-

"The monkey on the 2016 Bulldogs' back was older, but Richmond's was bigger, as the club is bigger"

It is constantly dismissed that we won four finals, two interstate, one against a triple premiership winning team. We did this even though our long term injuries, including to a captain, were appalling, and with a young list who should have found it even harder to win four gruelling finals.

Honestly, it is still extraordinarily hard to win a flag. Look at our struggles in 08-10, where being a top four team playing at the G each week we still couldn't grab a flag. Ok, don't look at it, those missed opportunities still hurt, but please just respect that our achievement last year was monumental, the Tigers is too but in different ways, instead of grinding all the joy and magic out of everything!!!

Quite funny how the journos bought up everything we did and how amazing it was but this year completely ignore and forget it.

Twodogs
01-10-2017, 10:22 PM
So 2 years after a 3 peat there's a complaint that there are no more extraordinary teams? Goldfish journalism I think

I think his point is that a non Victorian team should now be allowed to have a threepeat (you know. Like Brisbane did) or it's not fair and we will make the baby Jesus cry.

S Coast Simon
02-10-2017, 03:48 AM
The two so called journo's have just shown the world how little they actually know about AFL. They have honestly no idea what they are talking about. They are clearly insignificant in the world of journalism and have tried to get some attention.

Twodogs
02-10-2017, 05:50 AM
“I’m telling you what, the MCG — fair enough it’s the biggest stadium in Australia, but why do we have to have the grand final there every year? Tell me one reason ...


That's as stupid as it sounds isn't it? He does answer his own question-I haven't misread that he asks for one reason despite the fact he has already given one very good reason why the Grand Final is always at the MCG?

ratsmac
02-10-2017, 08:40 AM
He also mentions how the poor old travelling interstate teams have to play at the MCG to play the grand final. But what he fails to mention (since the Bulldogs were part of his argument) the we had to travel twice interstate to actually make the grand final.

The grapes are tasting rather sour it would seem!

ledge
02-10-2017, 10:11 AM
Journos don't look at the big picture they only look at the reasons for their statement and refuse to look at the reverse arguement because they know it far outweighs it.
Why don't they go with the one that looks like they have football nous and the one with more fors than againsts?

S Coast Simon
02-10-2017, 10:22 AM
Or the fact that the only Victorian team with a home ground advantage is Geelong. So the interstate teams get an advantage during the season to get to the finals now they want the advantage in the grand final as well.

Sedat
02-10-2017, 11:10 AM
Look forward to seeing the next ordinary flag team that goes 19-7 in their premiership season.

But the week off, umpires, 7th place, yada yada.....

ledge
02-10-2017, 11:15 AM
The fact Brisbane won three in a row makes the argument hysterical, the fact port and Sydney won not that long ago, he only went back a few years to suit his article.
Is this the new topic because their only sides who don't have a second bye don't make a grand final or win was proved a lot of rot and us winning it was probably the greatest finals run against the odds in history.
Oh and forget the fact we played interstate twice in that run and won, but that would prove even more how huge it was and they can't admit to that because it makes the whole article rubbish.

Sedat
02-10-2017, 11:23 AM
Changing codes for a minute, Melbourne Storm have won 5 flags* in their 20 year history. Every GF has been in Sydney and in many of their finals campaigns, they've had to travel interstate in earlier finals despite finishing higher than their opponents.

Excuses are boring.

Twodogs
02-10-2017, 12:14 PM
Changing codes for a minute, Melbourne Storm have won 5 flags* in their 20 year history. Every GF has been in Sydney and in many of their finals campaigns, they've had to travel interstate in earlier finals despite finishing higher than their opponents.

Excuses are boring.

I'm not a Storm supporter, I saw the original Eric Grothe run the length of the field and score a try against St George back in 1978 and Ive loved Parramatta ever since. The Storm were bloody lucky to win against us (you could say WE WERE ROBBED!!!!!!!!) But I'd hate to think I was raining on anyone's parade the Storm were deserved premiers and must be getting close to being one of the best football clubs in the world.

westdog54
02-10-2017, 03:14 PM
Its worth remembering that this is the same 'journalist' that labelled the Tom Boyd trade the worst of all time when the ink was barely dry.

He's clearly forgotten the bit where Hawthorn missed the finals in 2009 and went on to build a dynasty.

He's also forgotten that one of the premierships he is so fervently celebrating, being the 05 Sydney/West Coast duel, was almost outscored by Richmond on Saturday.

These bits greatly amused me:


What’s the lesson from the Tigers? Surround a few stars with a bunch of battlers and just pressure the bejesus out of the opposition.


The game didn’t exactly bode well for players standing 194cm or higher either. There’s always going to be room for one ruckman but if key forwards can’t get a kick on grand final day what’s the point of playing them (and in turn the key defenders that follow them around)?

Nankervis managed to make an impact. Tom Boyd (The worst trade of all time) and Jordan Roughead weren't complaining last year. He seems to be relying on the fact that Walker and Jenkins played shithouse to prove his point. And if you can't stand up to pressure you don't deserve to win a premiership.

bulldogsthru&thru
02-10-2017, 03:32 PM
Feel like a broken record, but these journos who do no research, use no facts and fail to look into detail force me to repeat myself. This applies to our flag, not Richmonds.

1. Yes we finished 7th but our record gets us top 4 any other year. In fact the top 3 teams this year won just as many games as we did last year. So saying "we came from 7th" like its something never done and will never be done again is short-sighted. A typical 7th side (i.e. essendon this year) we were not. We were 2 games off top spot in 2016, our record would have had us 3rd this year and most other years and that was with the worst injury list in the comp. So no, it wasn't a flash in the pan. We were legitimate contenders but noone outside our supporters had the ability to look past ladder position. Poor journalism. Look into the detail please before making rubbish statements.

2. The interstate vs VIC team is nonsense. At least for our flag. Last time i checked our home ground was eithad and we play at the MCG bascially twice a year. Sydney played the MCG as many times as we did in 2016. Do your research journos.

3. As Sedat said above, we won 2 finals interstate. So the argument that we somehow benefited from having the GF at the MCG doesn't stand. We were winning no matter where we played and no doubt would have beaten the swans if the game were at the SCG. Just like we did earlier in the season. Use facts please.

We are fans who work full time or spend most of our lives on other things yet can still figure these things out. How can these so called "journos", who are getting paid to write this crap, not have the competencies to do research and check facts? Its embarrassing.

Edit: I would have, had adelaide or richmond lost in the prelims, had to add in a segment on the "effect" of the bye week. But obviously that has all disappeared after this year. Unbelievable really. What a baseless fact it was.

Flamethrower
02-10-2017, 03:48 PM
When I read articles like this the 1st thing I think of is...

I wonder if they know where their nearest Centrelink office is when their employer has a budget shortfall and they need to restructure to remove the deadwood.

WBFC4FFC
02-10-2017, 04:20 PM
Feel like a broken record, but these journos who do no research, use no facts and fail to look into detail force me to repeat myself. This applies to our flag, not Richmonds.

1. Yes we finished 7th but our record gets us top 4 any other year. In fact the top 3 teams this year won just as many games as we did last year. So saying "we came from 7th" like its something never done and will never be done again is short-sighted. A typical 7th side (i.e. essendon this year) we were not. We were 2 games off top spot in 2016, our record would have had us 3rd this year and most other years and that was with the worst injury list in the comp. So no, it wasn't a flash in the pan. We were legitimate contenders but noone outside our supporters had the ability to look past ladder position. Poor journalism. Look into the detail please before making rubbish statements.

2. The interstate vs VIC team is nonsense. At least for our flag. Last time i checked our home ground was eithad and we play at the MCG bascially twice a year. Sydney played the MCG as many times as we did in 2016. Do your research journos.

3. As Sedat said above, we won 2 finals interstate. So the argument that we somehow benefited from having the GF at the MCG doesn't stand. We were winning no matter where we played and no doubt would have beaten the swans if the game were at the SCG. Just like we did earlier in the season. Use facts please.

We are fans who work full time or spend most of our lives on other things yet can still figure these things out. How can these so called "journos", who are getting paid to write this crap, not have the competencies to do research and check facts? Its embarrassing.

Edit: I would have, had adelaide or richmond lost in the prelims, had to add in a segment on the "effect" of the bye week. But obviously that has all disappeared after this year. Unbelievable really. What a baseless fact it was.

Frustrating but you know what they say about Opinions? They are like Ar$e-holes: Everyone's got one!

Just focus on the Bullies (hope they are focusing on themselves too) and on how to improve from next year and beyond!

Ghost Dog
02-10-2017, 04:26 PM
The thing I like about Longmire is fact he says there is absolutely no excuses for travel. Ross Lyon says the same thing, or he used to...

Twodogs
02-10-2017, 10:07 PM
Frustrating but you know what they say about Opinions? They are like Ar$e-holes: Everyone's got one!

Just focus on the Bullies (hope they are focusing on themselves too) and on how to improve from next year and beyond!

And everybody is entitled to their own opinion, that's a persons right. What people don't have the right to do is make up facts to suit their argument and that's what Barrett does.

westdog54
02-10-2017, 10:40 PM
And everybody is entitled to their own opinion, that's a persons right. What people don't have the right to do is make up facts to suit their argument and that's what Barrett does.

Whenever I hear of someone being 'entitled to their opinion' I always turn to Professor Brian Cox:

“The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!”

Twodogs
02-10-2017, 10:45 PM
Whenever I hear of someone being 'entitled to their opinion' I always turn to Professor Brian Cox:

“The problem with today’s world is that everyone believes they have the right to express their opinion AND have others listen to it.

The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!”

My favourite was Ice-T on SVU responding to a protester he was cuffing giving him the old adage "it's a free country" "Wrong. It's a democracy and the rest of us don't like what you're doing"

EasternWest
03-10-2017, 12:11 PM
My favourite was Ice-T on SVU responding to a protester he was cuffing giving him the old adage "it's a free country" "Wrong. It's a democracy and the rest of us don't like what you're doing"

How very Ice. OG.