Jason McCartney

[GVGjr]

Apparently J-Mac is in line for a more senior role at the GC Suns as Ashcroft departs.

"Western Bulldogs list manager Jason McCartney has emerged as a target for a senior football department position with the Suns"

I wonder how long he has know about this?

[Doc26]

They've had a fair go at poaching our on and off-field talent e.g Harbrow, Justin Cordy and now J-Mac.

Time to have a crack back and target one of their players.

[EasternWest]

They've had a fair go at poaching our on and off-field talent e.g Harbrow, Justin Cordy and now J-Mac.

Time to have a crack back and target one of their players.

Karmichael Hunt?

You're never finished as a footballer until you've been tried at FF for the Bulldogs.

[Doc26]

Karmichael Hunt?

You're never finished as a footballer until you've been tried at FF for the Bulldogs.

I can recall him kicking a goal so he would bring something we're lacking.

[Twodogs]

I can recall him kicking a goal so he would bring something we're lacking.

I can recall all the lousy full forwards that did play for us kicking a goal. Even Tim Walsh.

[EasternWest]

I can recall all the lousy full forwards that did play for us kicking a goal. Even Tim Walsh.

Hey. He's a UFU thug now. You leave him alone.

[ratsmac]

Apparently J-Mac is in line for a more senior role at the GC Suns as Ashcroft departs

"Western Bulldogs list manager Jason McCartney has emerged as a target for a senior football department position with the Suns"

I wonder how long he has know about this?

Those filthy rotten bastards are pillaging us again. When are we going to get one back from them like we did GWS with Tom Boyd?

[ratsmac]

Double post

[Twodogs]

Hey. He's a UFU thug now. You leave him alone.


Well don't put him in the arse kicking squad at the next rally. Even if he found one to kick he'd probably miss.

[azabob]

Where did you hear that GVGjr?

If true, I’d suggest he and the club have known for sometime. Interesting we are still letting him run point on our trades. JMAC has manged our list and contracted players really well, however the trade side of things he has not been his strong suit.

[Rocket Science]

It's fanciful to think his current contract predicament is just happenstance. If true this won't be a recent development. The AFEL would've been sniffing around for likely types to go and fix their expensive mess.

Perhaps he'll just use it to leverage a better deal from us. I'd rather that than him walking immediately after shepherding us through trade period.

[GVGjr]

Where did you hear that GVGjr?

If true, I’d suggest he and the club have known for sometime. Interesting we are still letting him run point on our trades. JMAC has manged our list and contracted players really well, however the trade side of things he has not been his strong suit.

It's on the News.com.au site. There is an article on some coaching changes at the Suns and Ashcrofts departure

[ledge]

Didn't J Mac say he was happy at the dogs and they were just adjusting his role?

[Go_Dogs]

Didn't J Mac say he was happy at the dogs and they were just adjusting his role?

He said as much on trade radio last week, but he’s hardly going to come out and say that he’s leaving because of a better offer from another club.

He’s got a strong track record and would be a strong candidate for many clubs. If he’s looking to move into a new role and make an impact, it’d be a terrific opportunity for him.

[jeemak]

I don't get the angst, and if he is leaving, having him run this period and seeing out his strategy is the best thing to do. Replacing him within a short period of the trade period would be madness.

What would also be madness is phoning in the last few months of your contract in such a small industry, and burning an employer who's been very good to you.

[GVGjr]

I don't get the angst, and if he is leaving, having him run this period and seeing out his strategy is the best thing to do. Replacing him within a short period of the trade period would be madness.

What would also be madness is phoning in the last few months of your contract in such a small industry, and burning an employer who's been very good to you.

Spot on, he's a professional and at this stage all we know is that the Suns have sounded him out.

[EasternWest]

Well don't put him in the arse kicking squad at the next rally. Even if he found one to kick he'd probably miss.

You're behind the times man - we've only got cuddling squads now.

[Twodogs]

You're behind the times man - we've only got cuddling squads now.


Pfffft. And you call yourselves a union...

[EasternWest]

Pfffft. And you call yourselves a union...

Don't make me come over there and cuddle you.

[Throughandthrough]

McCartney expected to replace Marcus Ashcroft at GC

[Rocket Science]

Oh goody.

Hey Jase, just before you go mate, can you look after things until trade period and the draft wraps up? Not much doing, should be a quiet one, ta.

The HS described him as "vulnerable to poaching" a couple of months back.

Maybe the club's happy to move him on?

[ledge]

GC are in need of a huge change , wouldn't be surprised if the AFL has its hands on getting JMac or other people over to fix it.

[Mofra]

Where did you hear that GVGjr?

If true, I’d suggest he and the club have known for sometime. Interesting we are still letting him run point on our trades. JMAC has manged our list and contracted players really well, however the trade side of things he has not been his strong suit.
Chris Grant has final sign-off on any trades though IIRC.
We are pretty big on governance and oversight these days.

[bulldogtragic]

McCartney expected to replace Marcus Ashcroft at GC

Ashcroft just announced as stepping down at year's end.

[anfo27]

Can you imagine what the Suns will get for Lynch with JMac at the trade table. We could replace him with Ronald McDonald and he couldn't do any worse at trading.

[G-Mo77]

If all we get is 2x 2nd rounders I will help him pack

[Rocket Science]

There's a suggestion we haven't tendered McCartney a new contract.

Conversely, it also seems he's got multiple suitors.

So what's fuelling our hesitancy?

[ledge]

There's a suggestion we haven't tendered McCartney a new contract.

Conversely, it also seems he's got multiple suitors.

So what's fuelling our hesitancy?
Pg said ages ago they are revamping the role, that was the hold up , Jmac has said many times he I is very happy at the Bulldogs and is looking to be here in the the future.

[GVGjr]

A lot of people are frustrated with our efforts to shop Jake Stringer around and get a fair return for his services. This then seems to drop on the lap of Jason McCartney however, I'm not sure it should all fall on J-Mac.

The club had some issues, OK lets say a lot of issues, with Jake Stringer during 2017 and at the end of the season the club and coach decided to take a firm stance in an effort to address his behavior issues.
Jake was shocked that the club was considering trading him and there appears to be a lot of confusion by Jake on the exact content of the discussions that took place. Paul Connors has since made it clear that in future he and his team will be more active in gaining clarity of these end of season reviews so things are clear for everyone.
Unfortunately this then got played out in public and the media smelled a story and went hard at us in fact very hard at us and there were certainly a few Melbourne based clubs that were interested in acquiring the services of such a talented player. An interview by Luke Beveridge then did a lot of damaged to Jakes value in the market and clubs interest started to waiver. On top of that a damning interview with Stringers ex made everyone aware of some of the challenges the club and Jake faced.

Essendon were quick to pounce offering Jake a lucrative 3 year deal as the market cooled for his services.

McCartney and the committee that oversees trades rightly valued Jake as a top end pick originally considering him a top 10 type pick in quality but perhaps being prepared to accept something a bit less just to get the problem dealt with but also willing to maintain Stringer as a player if a good deal couldn't be arranged. Stringer, Connors and Essendon didn't see it that way and are insisting that we deal Stringer to any 'reasonable offer'. It's the definition of reasonable that no one can agree to.
Essendon are never easy to deal with eventually came in with an offer of pick 11 providing we handed back pick 27 and McCartney and the committee didn't believe that was a fair return and rejected the offer.

Essendon dealt pick 11 in another deal and are now offering two draft picks in the 2nd round and this can be for this year or next or a combination of one in each year.

So we are now in a situation of either keeping Stringer and holding him to his contract, dealing with a less than fair deal with Essendon or perhaps orchestrating something with Geelong but that might be a long shot and difficult to arrange.

In Poker terms there is an expression that goes on along the lines of just playing the cards you are dealt and I'd have to say McCartney hasn't been given a decent hand considering how this as all played out in the media. We probably bluffed a bit but then had to fold because we didn't have the required aces.

He is the list manager and I see why some are expecting him to work some magic but given there is also a committee during this process I don't agree that some of the frustration being directed solely at McCartney is justified.

Stringer and his manager need to stand up and be counted, Bevo needs to get on the phone and try and mend the relationship and as a club we need to work out if we really want him back or if we are prepared to accept a lesser deal.

Hopefully this won't go down to the wire and it gets sorted early next week but who knows.

[Remi Moses]

Great post ^^

[Go_Dogs]

Thanks GVGjr, a very balanced view of where we're sitting.

We needed to be considerably smarter in the messaging we put out in the media - Bevo is accountable for those comments so hopefully a valuable lesson has been learned.

Whatever the outcome, hopefully 2-5 years down the track we look back at it as the right call and a defining moment.

[ledge]

A lot of people are frustrated with our efforts to shop Jake Stringer around and get a fair return for his services. This then seems to drop on the lap of Jason McCartney however, I'm not sure it should all fall on J-Mac.

The club had some issues, OK lets say a lot of issues, with Jake Stringer during 2017 and at the end of the season the club and coach decided to take a firm stance in an effort to address his behavior issues.
Jake was shocked that the club was considering trading him and there appears to be a lot of confusion by Jake on the exact content of the discussions that took place. Paul Connors has since made it clear that in future he and his team will be more active in gaining clarity of these end of season reviews so things are clear for everyone.
Unfortunately this then got played out in public and the media smelled a story and went hard at us in fact very hard at us and there were certainly a few Melbourne based clubs that were interested in acquiring the services of such a talented player. An interview by Luke Beveridge then did a lot of damaged to Jakes value in the market and clubs interest started to waiver. On top of that a damning interview with Stringers ex made everyone aware of some of the challenges the club and Jake faced.

Essendon were quick to pounce offering Jake a lucrative 3 year deal as the market cooled for his services.

McCartney and the committee that oversees trades rightly valued Jake as a top end pick originally considering him a top 10 type pick in quality but perhaps being prepared to accept something a bit less just to get the problem dealt with but also willing to maintain Stringer as a player if a good deal couldn't be arranged. Stringer, Connors and Essendon didn't see it that way and are insisting that we deal Stringer to any 'reasonable offer'. It's the definition of reasonable that no one can agree to.
Essendon are never easy to deal with eventually came in with an offer of pick 11 providing we handed back pick 27 and McCartney and the committee didn't believe that was a fair return and rejected the offer.

Essendon dealt pick 11 in another deal and are now offering two draft picks in the 2nd round and this can be for this year or next or a combination of one in each year.

So we are now in a situation of either keeping Stringer and holding him to his contract, dealing with a less than fair deal with Essendon or perhaps orchestrating something with Geelong but that might be a long shot and difficult to arrange.

In Poker terms there is an expression that goes on along just playing the cards you are dealt and I'd have to say McCartney hasn't been given a decent hand considering how this as all played out in the media.

He is the list manager and I see why some are expecting him to work some magic but given there is also a committee during this process I don't agree that some of the frustration being directed solely to McCartney is justified.

Stringer and his manager need to stand up and be counted, Bevo needs to get on the phone and try and mend the relationship and as a club we need to work out if we really want him back or if we are prepared to accept a lesser deal.

Hopefully this won't go down to the wire and it gets sorted early next week.


I guess it comes down to if the players who have issues with him will forgive him and allow him back.
It needs to be a whole team acceptance and Jake needs to show he is on the way back mentally and physically and fully committed.
I still believe Jake would like to stay as he has never came out and mentioned a preferred club , it seems the bombers are the only ones interested anyway, his issues have scared a few off so it's not going to be easy.

[Bulldog4life]

I guess it comes down to if the players who have issues with him will forgive him and allow him back.
It needs to be a whole team acceptance and Jake needs to show he is on the way back mentally and physically and fully committed.
I still believe Jake would like to stay as he has never came out and mentioned a preferred club , it seems the bombers are the only ones interested anyway, his issues have scared a few off so it's not going to be easy.

I remember Libba leaving the club after his exit review saying that something along the lines of the players getting their trust back. Whether this was directed at Stringer I am not sure.

[ledge]

I remember Libba leaving the club after his exit review saying that something along the lines of the players getting their trust back. Whether this was directed at Stringer I am not sure.

I think Mitch Wallis hit the nail On the head saying Jake had to be " fully committed " and believe he said that to him while playing golf.

[The Doctor]

Did anyone hear a mention by Brian Waldron connecting Ameet Baines to us?

Not sure what he said as I was distracted.

[Doc26]

Did anyone hear a mention by Brian Waldron connecting Ameet Baines to us?

Not sure what he said as I was distracted.

I didn't hear Brian Waldron's segment today but I did hear a separate reference last night on radio suggesting that Ameet Bains was favoured to be our new CEO. I have no idea if it was just another shot in the dark comment.

[anfo27]

Did anyone hear a mention by Brian Waldron connecting Ameet Baines to us?

Not sure what he said as I was distracted.

Yeah i heard it. He just said Baines was favoured to win the role & that he was highly rated by the AFL or in the AFL, something like that.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Yeah i heard it. He just said Baines was favoured to win the role & that he was highly rated by the AFL or in the AFL, something like that.

Interesting - hes always been pretty well regarded - and when Ive previously heard him on radio I think he sounded good

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

A lot of people are frustrated with our efforts to shop Jake Stringer around and get a fair return for his services. This then seems to drop on the lap of Jason McCartney however, I'm not sure it should all fall on J-Mac.

The club had some issues, OK lets say a lot of issues, with Jake Stringer during 2017 and at the end of the season the club and coach decided to take a firm stance in an effort to address his behavior issues.
Jake was shocked that the club was considering trading him and there appears to be a lot of confusion by Jake on the exact content of the discussions that took place. Paul Connors has since made it clear that in future he and his team will be more active in gaining clarity of these end of season reviews so things are clear for everyone.
Unfortunately this then got played out in public and the media smelled a story and went hard at us in fact very hard at us and there were certainly a few Melbourne based clubs that were interested in acquiring the services of such a talented player. An interview by Luke Beveridge then did a lot of damaged to Jakes value in the market and clubs interest started to waiver. On top of that a damning interview with Stringers ex made everyone aware of some of the challenges the club and Jake faced.

Essendon were quick to pounce offering Jake a lucrative 3 year deal as the market cooled for his services.

McCartney and the committee that oversees trades rightly valued Jake as a top end pick originally considering him a top 10 type pick in quality but perhaps being prepared to accept something a bit less just to get the problem dealt with but also willing to maintain Stringer as a player if a good deal couldn't be arranged. Stringer, Connors and Essendon didn't see it that way and are insisting that we deal Stringer to any 'reasonable offer'. It's the definition of reasonable that no one can agree to.
Essendon are never easy to deal with eventually came in with an offer of pick 11 providing we handed back pick 27 and McCartney and the committee didn't believe that was a fair return and rejected the offer.

Essendon dealt pick 11 in another deal and are now offering two draft picks in the 2nd round and this can be for this year or next or a combination of one in each year.

So we are now in a situation of either keeping Stringer and holding him to his contract, dealing with a less than fair deal with Essendon or perhaps orchestrating something with Geelong but that might be a long shot and difficult to arrange.

In Poker terms there is an expression that goes on along the lines of just playing the cards you are dealt and I'd have to say McCartney hasn't been given a decent hand considering how this as all played out in the media. We probably bluffed a bit but then had to fold because we didn't have the required aces.

He is the list manager and I see why some are expecting him to work some magic but given there is also a committee during this process I don't agree that some of the frustration being directed solely at McCartney is justified.

Stringer and his manager need to stand up and be counted, Bevo needs to get on the phone and try and mend the relationship and as a club we need to work out if we really want him back or if we are prepared to accept a lesser deal.

Hopefully this won't go down to the wire and it gets sorted early next week but who knows.

Thanks very much GVGjr for an honest and frank understanding of the situation. The fact that there has been minimal interest in Stringer would suggest that all the adverse publicity that surrounds him was enough proof for the majority of the Clubs to lose interest in spite of Jake being a Premiership player and All Australian. I have formed an opinion that Stringer is such an individualist both on and off the field that he isn't a good fit at our Club, which Bevo obviously agrees. If you can not maintain the faith of the Coach and players, then it is time for him to move on. The recruitment of Trengrove, Crozier and hopefully Schache, brings some much needed talent into our Club, that needs to recover quickly from last year's disappointment.

[bulldogtragic]

GWS delisted or let go of their list manager, now he wants to head to The Suns for the same role there.

The same role media folk were linking JMac to. Either there's a contest for The Suns role, or JMac may not be interested it. He's been busy post trade with Cloke 'retiring' and signing Jack for four years more.

[GVGjr]

GWS delisted or let go of their list manager, now he wants to head to The Suns for the same role there.

The same role media folk were linking JMac to. Either there's a contest for The Suns role, or JMac may not be interested it. He's been busy post trade with Cloke 'retiring' and signing Jack for four years more.

I don't think he was looking to go to the Suns as the list manager. That is Clayton's role. He was in consideration to replace Ashcroft

[azabob]

I don't think he was looking to go to the Suns as the list manager. That is Clayton's role. He was in consideration to replace Ashcroft

Mitch Cleary tweeted that Clayton to leave the Suns after the draft.

[azabob]

I’ve changed my mind on McCartney and I want him to stay. He has done an amazing job keeping the list together and I’m impressed with his and the teams recent trade period.

[bornadog]

I’ve changed my mind on McCartney and I want him to stay. He has done an amazing job keeping the list together and I’m impressed with his and the teams recent trade period.

Not sure why people were off him, I agree he has done a great job.

[jeemak]

Not sure why people were off him, I agree he has done a great job.

Because everyone's supposed to be perfect in our view given our limited understanding of doings and transpirings.

Seriously, what was everyone's opinion of Richmond's list manager prior to this most recent season? How many people want to apportion the credit of last year's success for us on one of Bevo, Dalrymple or McCartney, let alone the assistant coaches?

Good list managers generally are just like anyone else within the management or governance structure. Without good systems, processes culture and support around them they're not worth much irrespective of their talent. I think about the Clayton days with us, and his days at GCS and acknowledge that he wasn't surrounded by much of those things, and that probably would have impacted the way he performed in his roles.

As for JMac, he's just part of a bigger team within the club and probably gets too much focus. Part of that is the simplification of footy by the media doing its work, the remainder probably has a fair bit to do with the fact we keep our cards fairly close to our chests.

[ledge]

So was stringer a good pick or a bad one ?

[jeemak]

So was stringer a good pick or a bad one ?

He was an excellent pick. At pick five, probably the most talented in his draft and first to reach an accolade like All Australian, whilst the biggest piece of air play anyone picked ahead of him has had is being suspended for suspicion of drug taking.

Played a couple of really good seasons for us, was instrumental in our rise up from nothing to finals contenders that with a bit more intestinal fortitude and defensive wherewithal could have played week two and three finals in 2015, and was a distraction to opposition planning in our premiership year whilst kicking one of the most difficult and important goals ever kicked in a grand final.

All in all, a raging success over the time he spent with us - of course to the point where we'd had enough and realised he was going to be too much of a distraction going forward.

But, the decision to let Stringer go had nothing to do with list management in its purest sense, or McCartney in general. The pundits will put the magnifying glass over what we were able to get for him having let him go, but the decision to do so in the first place had nothing to do with the list manager, who let's be honest, was dealt a really tricky deck to work with during the trade period.

[Twodogs]

He was an excellent pick. At pick five, probably the most talented in his draft and first to reach an accolade like All Australian, whilst the biggest piece of air play anyone picked ahead of him has had is being suspended for suspicion of drug taking.

Played a couple of really good seasons for us, was instrumental in our rise up from nothing to finals contenders that with a bit more intestinal fortitude and defensive wherewithal could have played week two and three finals in 2015, and was a distraction to opposition planning in our premiership year whilst kicking one of the most difficult and important goals ever kicked in a grand final.

All in all, a raging success over the time he spent with us - of course to the point where we'd had enough and realised he was going to be too much of a distraction going forward.

But, the decision to let Stringer go had nothing to do with list management in its purest sense, or McCartney in general. The pundits will put the magnifying glass over what we were able to get for him having let him go, but the decision to do so in the first place had nothing to do with the list manager, who let's be honest, was dealt a really tricky deck to work with during the trade period.


And Dal picked him.

[jeemak]

And Dal picked him.

Are you trying to pick a fight with me TD?

[Twodogs]

Are you trying to pick a fight with me TD?

I'd be picking a fight with ledge in this aituation.


Unless you are determined to have a problem with me...

[anfo27]

Not sure why people were off him, I agree he has done a great job.

Has done a great job with managing the list but not good enough at the trade table in my opinion. Granted i don't know what goes on inside the club at trade time.

[bornadog]

Has done a great job with managing the list but not good enough at the trade table in my opinion. Granted i don't know what goes on inside the club at trade time.

In your opinion what is the issue for trading?

[anfo27]

In your opinion what is the issue for trading?

Think we did poorly in the Stringer trade. I think we did poorly in the pick 16 trade with Carlton. I find it hard to understand that Crozier is worth pick 40 but Stevens & Hrovat are worth nothing. I'm not saying we should be getting good picks for them but Crozier was worth a pick & our two players aren't.
We've had a lot fun on here at Dodoro's expense but he did good job come trade time. Be honest & tell me who we are better than at the trade table?
I give him credit at managing our list, great job JMac but thats not the only area he is responsible for.

[bornadog]

Think we did poorly in the Stringer trade. I think we did poorly in the pick 16 trade with Carlton. I find it hard to understand that Crozier is worth pick 40 but Stevens & Hrovat are worth nothing. I'm not saying we should be getting good picks for them but Crozier was worth a pick & our two players aren't.
We've had a lot fun on here at Dodoro's expense but he did good job come trade time. Be honest & tell me who we are better than at the trade table?
I give him credit at managing our list, great job JMac but thats not the only area he is responsible for.

* Stringer - no one really wanted him due to the baggage. Effectively Pick 16 and Schache (former number 2 but of course jury is out at this stage)

* Stevens and Hrovat - not best 22, below average players - got what they are worth

* Crozier, I think pick 40 is about right - but could be a bust.

We are no better or no worse than any other club come trade time, the whole trade period really is a joke

[anfo27]

* Stringer - no one really wanted him due to the baggage. Effectively Pick 16 and Schache (former number 2 but of course jury is out at this stage)

* Stevens and Hrovat - not best 22, below average players - got what they are worth

* Crozier, I think pick 40 is about right - but could be a bust.

We are no better or no worse than any other club come trade time, the whole trade period really is a joke

I don't like this 'effectively pick 16 & Schache' business. They were different trades. Bending the Lions over for Schache shouldn't make our other trade look better.
Stevens was best 22 at the start of 2016 but unfortunately for Koby his form coming back from injury has always been woeful so that cost him his spot. He was there abouts in a premiership team & Crozier is there abouts in a crap team. I fail to see how Crozier is worth more than Stevens.

[bornadog]

I don't like this 'effectively pick 16 & Schache' business. They were different trades.

We wouldn't have done the Schache trade if we didn't get the two picks from Essendon.

[jeemak]

You can't look at trade period in terms of winning or losing individual trades. It's not the point of the exercise.

We had an exceptional trade period given the shit sandwich we had in front of us.

[anfo27]

We wouldn't have done the Schache trade if we didn't get the two picks from Essendon.

We already had a pick in the 20s & if we did a better job in the Crozier deal then we still had pick 40 too. Even without the picks from Essendon we had the picks to get that done

[GVGjr]

Think we did poorly in the Stringer trade. I think we did poorly in the pick 16 trade with Carlton. I find it hard to understand that Crozier is worth pick 40 but Stevens & Hrovat are worth nothing. I'm not saying we should be getting good picks for them but Crozier was worth a pick & our two players aren't.
We've had a lot fun on here at Dodoro's expense but he did good job come trade time. Be honest & tell me who we are better than at the trade table?
I give him credit at managing our list, great job JMac but thats not the only area he is responsible for.

To me that logic is way off and is the easy option. Over his tenure you've come up with one example and by the way Bevo has to take a hit of wrecking Stringers worth and bringing his departure to a head. J-Mac just had a shitty set of cards to play.

[Twodogs]

You can't look at trade period in terms of winning or losing individual trades. It's not the point of the exercise.

We had an exceptional trade period given the shit sandwich we had in front of us.


Exactly. You go into trade period looking to improve your list and that's a different thing to winning trades.

It's quite feasible for you to win every trade but only trade in tall forwards or robust midfielders. Sure they are more valuable than every other position but there's no point having 43 of the same position on your list.

Let's give Essendon's recruiting and list management teams Eighteen months to two years before we start lionising them. I'm not convinced they are playing from the same deck everyone else is.

[jeemak]

To me that logic is way off and is the easy option. Over his tenure you've come up with one example and by the way Bevo has to take a hit of wrecking Stringers worth and bringing his departure to a head. J-Mac just had a shitty set of cards to play.

Even the Bevo play is exaggerated when it comes to Stringer's trade worth. EFC and everyone else in the footy industry knew what sort of prospect Stringer had become. There's a reason why Connors and Stringer played the poor me card as forcefully as they did, and it wasn't because we were being bastards to deal with.

His off field life wasn't one shaded by some rumours here or there, it was rife with them, each closer to the mark than the next.

[GVGjr]

Even the Bevo play is exaggerated when it comes to Stringer's trade worth. EFC and everyone else in the footy industry knew what sort of prospect Stringer had become. There's a reason why Connors and Stringer played the poor me card as forcefully as they did, and it wasn't because we were being bastards to deal with.

His off field life wasn't one shaded by some rumours here or there, it was rife with them, each closer to the mark than the next.

Had Bevo not said what he said the media couldn't have added to the momentum in the manner they did. It also forced Stinger and his manager to only nominate one club. I'm firmly convinced that Bevo shrunk Stringers value and the media were strong on that point

[Topdog]

Had Bevo not said what he said the media couldn't have added to the momentum in the manner they did. It also forced Stinger and his manager to only nominate one club. I'm firmly convinced that Bevo shrunk Stringers value and the media were strong on that point

Sorry but how did Bevo speaking force Stringer to nominate one club.

If you go through the timeline you will recall that the rumours of an ugly exit interview were before Bevo spoke out.

Everyone knew the problems he had

[Remi Moses]

There were stories of Geelong being the front runners for his services . We postured, Essendon postured , that’s trade time .
Clubs no the issues, hence why only one wanted him.

[Remi Moses]

Think we did poorly in the Stringer trade. I think we did poorly in the pick 16 trade with Carlton. I find it hard to understand that Crozier is worth pick 40 but Stevens & Hrovat are worth nothing. I'm not saying we should be getting good picks for them but Crozier was worth a pick & our two players aren't.
We've had a lot fun on here at Dodoro's expense but he did good job come trade time. Be honest & tell me who we are better than at the trade table?
I give him credit at managing our list, great job JMac but thats not the only area he is responsible for.

I think Essendon needed tough inside mid types and not who they picked up .
Hrovat’s getting a game at the probably the worst club in the comp , and Stevens is very much what we already have.
Schache with his potential, was good business and Crozier could be very handy

[Twodogs]

Had Bevo not said what he said the media couldn't have added to the momentum in the manner they did. It also forced Stinger and his manager to only nominate one club. I'm firmly convinced that Bevo shrunk Stringers value and the media were strong on that point

I think it's one of those situations where we have to work out who and why somebody isn't telling us 100% of the truth.

The first question you have to ask yourself is why Bevo would do that. He's not a stupid man and he would have realised that any loose talk by him would impact negatively on a stringers trade worth.

So we have two options. Bevo already knew that every other club (especially Essendon who had their claws into Jakenfor a while) would have known all of Jake's bad habits or the media are making up stories again.

I've mentioned to you before that Bevo needs a minder (the events of the last couple of months have not changed my mind about that BTW) and another group he needs minding from is a certain cohort of Melbourne journos who are out to get our senior coach. I don't know what he did to them but a group led by Barrett will go to almost any length and make up any bs story to get at Bevo. Their hatred for him is getting primal.

[westdog54]

* Stringer - no one really wanted him due to the baggage. Effectively Pick 16 and Schache (former number 2 but of course jury is out at this stage)

* Stevens and Hrovat - not best 22, below average players - got what they are worth

* Crozier, I think pick 40 is about right - but could be a bust.

We are no better or no worse than any other club come trade time, the whole trade period really is a joke

The other thing people conveniently forget about Stevens and Hrovat is that we were never going to retain them with the game time they were getting. They had fallen a mile behind best 22.

[Twodogs]

The other thing people conveniently forget about Stevens and Hrovat is that we were never going to retain them with the game time they were getting. They had fallen a mile behind best 22.


Both nearly went the year before I think. Or one of them.

[GVGjr]

Sorry but how did Bevo speaking force Stringer to nominate one club.

If you go through the timeline you will recall that the rumours of an ugly exit interview were before Bevo spoke out.

Everyone knew the problems he had

So if everyone knew his problems why weren't they the focus of the media until Bevo tried to explain why he was being shopped around? Once that happened we handed control over to Stringer and his manager to pick a preferred side. The media sided with Stringer and let everyone know that we had given away control. We kept saying we would keep him if we didn't get an acceptable offer but everyone knew it was untenable because the coach confirmed it.

J-Mac cops the blame for not getting a better deal but really he didn't have a lot of options.

[bulldogtragic]

So if everyone knew his problems why weren't they the focus of the media until Bevo tried to explain why he was being shopped around? Once that happened we handed control over to Stringer and his manager to pick a preferred side. The media sided with Stringer and let everyone know that we had given away control. We kept saying we would keep him if we didn't get an acceptable offer but everyone knew it was untenable because the coach confirmed it.

J-Mac cops the blame for not getting a better deal but really he didn't have a lot of options.

I don't blame JMac or Bevo for the shit situation we were faced with. I blame Stringer.

[jeemak]

So if everyone knew his problems why weren't they the focus of the media until Bevo tried to explain why he was being shopped around? Once that happened we handed control over to Stringer and his manager to pick a preferred side. The media sided with Stringer and let everyone know that we had given away control. We kept saying we would keep him if we didn't get an acceptable offer but everyone knew it was untenable because the coach confirmed it.

J-Mac cops the blame for not getting a better deal but really he didn't have a lot of options.

G, I honestly don't think it would have played out any differently. The tell is in how quickly the Stringer camp was mobilised, Jake clearly had been warned throughout the season, played dumb at the end of the game, and found himself exactly where he and his manager wanted him to be (just so happens we're all really suspicious about this particular club and its never capped salary provisions).

If Bevo didn't say anything, Connors would have planted the information suitably to ensure the message from the Stringer camp was clear. A good negotiator always discloses intentions early in the piece, Connors if in fact a good negotiator, would have explicitly told any other suitor about Stringer's favourable terms at Essendon and set the bar where it needed to be to get competition into the mix. Obviously the competition didn't want to be involved.

[GVGjr]

G, I honestly don't think it would have played out any differently. The tell is in how quickly the Stringer camp was mobilised, Jake clearly had been warned throughout the season, played dumb at the end of the game, and found himself exactly where he and his manager wanted him to be (just so happens we're all really suspicious about this particular club and its never capped salary provisions).

If Bevo didn't say anything, Connors would have planted the information suitably to ensure the message from the Stringer camp was clear. A good negotiator always discloses intentions early in the piece, Connors if in fact a good negotiator, would have explicitly told any other suitor about Stringer's favourable terms at Essendon and set the bar where it needed to be to get competition into the mix. Obviously the competition didn't want to be involved.

The way I see it is if we didn't back him into the corner he could have easily considered other offers which would have helped. Connors became a problem when we presented Stringer to the media in the manner we did.

Anyway the point was to challenge the notion that J-Mac should have done better in that deal and from my perspective he didn't have a lot of play with.

[comrade]

Sorry but how did Bevo speaking force Stringer to nominate one club.

If you go through the timeline you will recall that the rumours of an ugly exit interview were before Bevo spoke out.

Everyone knew the problems he had

I'm so certain Connors and Essendon were nailing down this deal for months, and it was Connors and/or the Stringer camp that leaked details surrounding the exit interview.

[Throughandthrough]

Any truth to the rumour that J Mac and Chris Grant aren't on speaking terms?

[azabob]

Any truth to the rumour that J Mac and Chris Grant aren't on speaking terms?

Gee JMAC must have a lonely existence at the club as rumours were floating around he and Dalrymple are not speaking also.

[Twodogs]

Gee JMAC must have a lonely existence at the club as rumours were floating around he and Dalrymple are not speaking also.


He mutts just come in, sit at his desk, sign our latest signing or resign our best players and go home.

[MrMahatma]

When a star is on the move, people will want to know why. We had no choice but to speak out. Only thing I'd change is holding fire for a week or so longer. Prob wouldn't have changed anything as the talk of an exit interview blow up was turning into screams, so we were going to have to respond at some point.

Maybe we should've had his exit interview the day before trade week started?

[Mofra]

Not sure why people were off him, I agree he has done a great job.
Perceptually, a poor negotiator at the trade table and rumours of not getting along with Dalrymple.

[ledge]

Perceptually, a poor negotiator at the trade table and rumours of not getting along with Dalrymple.

I will take a bad negotiator who who doesn't get on with anyone When he gives us a flag winning list any day.

[KT31]

I don't blame JMac or Bevo for the shit situation we were faced with. I blame Stringer.

Totally agree with you BT.
JMAc and Bevo put the club first, Jake puts Jake first.

[azabob]

From memory McCartney's contract expires end of November 2017.

Has anyone heard of late what the plans are in who is in charge of the list management space?

Chris Grant was very front and centre this trade and draft period. I can't recall if Chris Grant was this front and centre last trade / draft period. If he wasn't, perhaps that indicates that McCartney is on the move.

[GVGjr]

From memory McCartney's contract expires end of November 2017.

Has anyone heard of late what the plans are in who is in charge of the list management space?

Chris Grant was very front and centre this trade and draft period. I can't recall if Chris Grant was this front and centre last trade / draft period. If he wasn't, perhaps that indicates that McCartney is on the move.

I was only thinking along the same lines earlier today.
Is it possible that Chris Grant took a more public position because of the impasse between Dodoro and McCartney?

If I'm reading more into J-Mac and him being linked to leaving could perhaps the position he coveted have been taken by someone else? At the Suns Jon Haines replaced Marcus Ashcroft as the head of football and Craig Cameron from Scott Clayton with a different reporting line.
So I think that leaves different positions at GWS and the StKilda that need to be filled. I think we are a good chance to keep McCartney

[boydogs]

Is it possible that Chris Grant took a more public position because of the impasse between Dodoro and McCartney?

Grant was the front man for the Schache deal too IIRC, not that it necessarily means anything - all hands on deck the final day of trade period I'd imagine

[cinder]

Just saw this on Facebook "Western Bulldogs List Manager Jason McCartney is set to move to GWS according to AFL Reporter Jennifer Phelan."

Well that sucks ...

[bulldogtragic]

Afl.com.au reporting McCartney has 'defected to GWS'.

[bornadog]

Boooooo

[bornadog]

Afl.com.au reporting McCartney has 'defected to GWS'.

Dogs list manager defects to the Giants



http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/Samples/559681-tlsnewsportrait.jpg


JASON McCartney is set to be announced as Greater Western Sydney's new list manager.
AFL.com.au understands McCartney will replace the recently departed Craig Cameron at the helm of the Giants' recruiting team.

McCartney is leaving the job of list manager at the Western Bulldogs, with his contract set to expire this month.
There have been consistent rumblings of disharmony within the Dogs' recruiting team, notably with rumoured differences between McCartney and recruiting manager Simon Dalrymple.

McCartney has been at the Dogs since 2011, and played a part in assembling the club's drought-breaking premiership team of 2016.

Cameron suddenly resigned from the Giants just 11 days before Friday night's NAB AFL Draft (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-15/cameron-joins-suns-after-giant-defection), after accepting an expanded role with Gold Coast.

He was contracted with the Giants until the end of 2019.

The Giants were quick to distance themselves from Cameron, issuing a statement that stated they had "cut ties" with the list manager and had "immediately" started a search for his replacement.

Cameron is set to take up his role of general manager list and strategy with the Suns in mid-December.

It is understood Suns list manager Scott Clayton will finish up this week at Gold Coast after presiding over the recent national and rookie drafts.

[bornadog]

GWS continue to copy us and poach our people/ex people

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Hoping we were attuned to his likely departure and we've a replacement waiting to step in.

[bulldogtragic]

GWS continue to copy us and poach our people/ex people

Best we keep Dalrymple at all cost.

Is there any competent list manager out there, excluding Scott Clayton & Terry Wallace? Could Rocket Eade do it? Bulldogtragic maybe?

[Twodogs]

GWS continue to copy us and poach our people/ex people


They can continue cutting our lunch as long as they like. It just means they won't be catching up with us they will continue to bob about in our flotsam.

There are plenty of good list managers and it was about time for Jmac anyway. He's been with us for a long time I reckon, did he come across with Bmac?

Thanks Jason for putting that premiership list together, I will appreciate your work in doing that until the day I die. You are a bulldog person now and nobody can take that away.

[Remi Moses]

Thanks for your services J Mac . Now we move forward

[Twodogs]

Thanks for your services J Mac . Now we move forward

Exactly. Head down, arse up, move forward.

[bulldogtragic]

Exactly. Head down, arse up, move forward.

Yep:

Jordan Roughead: 2018 (FA)
Luke Dahl: 2018 (FA)
Mitch Wallis: 2018 (FA)
Tom Liberatore: 2018 (FA)
Zaine Cordy: 2018
Lin Jong: 2018
Shane Biggs: 2018
Matthew Suckling: 2018
Tory Dickson: 2018
Clay Smith: 2018
Keiran Collins: 2018
Fergus Greene: 2018
Dale Morris: 2018 (FA)
Mitch Honeychurch: 2018
Tom Campbell: 2018

Roarke Smith: 2018 (Rookie)
Bradley Lynch: 2018 (Rookie)
Nathan Mc-Mc: 2018 (Rookie)
Bill Gowers: 2018 (Rookie)


Then following players of potential trade or free agency into the club.

[bulldogtragic]

Our website:

Western Bulldogs List Manager Jason McCartney has departed the Club to take up an opportunity at the GWS Giants.

McCartney leaves after six years at the Club, having accepted a role overseeing the Giants’ recruiting and list management team.

“I would like to sincerely thank everyone at the Western Bulldogs for their support during my time at the Club,” McCartney said.

“It has been a great experience, and I’ve made some strong friendships over the last six years.

“An exciting opportunity has presented at Greater Western Sydney for my family and I, and I’m now looking forward to the next chapter of my career.”

McCartney helped piece together the list structure which led to the Bulldogs’ 2016 premiership, and has played a key role in navigating the Club through the AFL free agency and trade periods.

“On behalf of the Club, I’d like to thank Jason for his valuable contribution to the Bulldogs over an extended period of time,” said Bulldogs Director of Football, Chris Grant.

“We understand the role is a great opportunity for Jason and his family, we are very supportive of the decision he has made, and we wish him all the best for the next phase of his career.”

[Axe Man]

He's done a great job given his role in compiling a premiership list, but it seems like it was best for all parties that he move on.

Now to find someone who can work with Dalrymple, Bevo, Grant, etc and stare down the Dodo from Tullamarine next trade period.

[The Underdog]

He's done a great job given his role in compiling a premiership list, but it seems like it was best for all parties that he move on.

Now to find someone who can work with Dalrymple, Bevo, Grant, etc and stare down the Dodo from Tullamarine next trade period.

You’d think Ameet Bain’s would have a fair idea of who would be a good person in that role given his experience.

[Bulldog Revolution]

You’d think Ameet Bain’s would have a fair idea of who would be a good person in that role given his experience.

Yes, you would

[Greystache]

Happy with this news.

He played a role in building a premiership squad, now it's time to reach for someone a bit higher capability.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Thanks Jason for our premiership list.

Makes you wonder what spin the club puts out, particularly this trade period given he said he wanted to stay.

Agree Baines is well placed

#wewantbulldogtragic

[Sedat]

I would like to start Operation 'Get Matt Rendell'. He is completely wasted in a lower role at Collingwood after being thrown under the bus by the AFL after the Jason Mifsud situation. He is a gun in all facets of recuiting, list management and player contract negotiations and would be a perfect fit for us.

[Twodogs]

Thanks Jason for our premiership list.

Makes you wonder what spin the club puts out, particularly this trade period given he said he wanted to stay.

Agree Baines is well placed

#wewantbulldogtragic


#BT4listmanager@westernbulldogs. #youknowyouwantit. #getgaff2018.

[The Doctor]

You’d think Ameet Bain’s would have a fair idea of who would be a good person in that role given his experience.

yes himself :)

[whythelongface]

Good luck to Jason with his next career move. Thank you for your outstanding service and for being a key driver in delivering us a premiership.

The hatred toward GWS continues to grow.

[bulldogtragic]

Thanks Jason for our premiership list.

Makes you wonder what spin the club puts out, particularly this trade period given he said he wanted to stay.

Agree Baines is well placed

#wewantbulldogtragic


#BT4listmanager@westernbulldogs. #youknowyouwantit. #getgaff2018.

I accept the job. Please let Peter, Ameet & Chris know I'll be in tomorrow to start.

[Remi Moses]

#wewantbulldogtragic

[josie]

#wewantbulldogtragic

Seconded!!

[Avoid the rush]

Get the feeling we may be heading towards ordaining the list manager you have when you don't have a list manager. Yes, that's right the CLAYTON's list manager.

[The Doctor]

Get the feeling we may be heading towards ordaining the list manager you have when you don't have a list manager. Yes, that's right the CLAYTON's list manager.

Or the one and only 'The List Manager?'

We wouldn't be that stupid surely

[Twodogs]

I would like to start Operation 'Get Matt Rendell'. He is completely wasted in a lower role at Collingwood after being thrown under the bus by the AFL after the Jason Mifsud situation. He is a gun in all facets of recuiting, list management and player contract negotiations and would be a perfect fit for us.

He would be an ideal assistant to BT.


I accept the job. Please let Peter, Ameet & Chris know I'll be in tomorrow to start.


I emailed them all. Mr Gordon was the only one to answer back.

What's does restraining order mean?

[Scraggers]

#wewantbulldogtragic


Seconded!!

All in favour say AYE ???

[bulldogtragic]

He would be an ideal assistant to BT.




I emailed them all. Mr Gordon was the only one to answer back.

What's does restraining order mean?

They respect you so much that they're literally restraining themselves from telling you just what a great member you are to the club. I have about a dozen now. Zaine Cordy is really, really restraining himself to tell me what a great leader on In-Zaine In The Brian I am.

[GVGjr]

He's done a great job given his role in compiling a premiership list, but it seems like it was best for all parties that he move on.

Now to find someone who can work with Dalrymple, Bevo, Grant, etc and stare down the Dodo from Tullamarine next trade period.

Exactly, he's done a great job for us and the list management has improved substantially during his time.

We will find another quality person to replace him and won't miss a beat.

[GVGjr]

I would like to start Operation 'Get Matt Rendell'. He is completely wasted in a lower role at Collingwood after being thrown under the bus by the AFL after the Jason Mifsud situation. He is a gun in all facets of recuiting, list management and player contract negotiations and would be a perfect fit for us.

Great suggestion. Rendell would be worth talking to

[The Doctor]

We will find another quality person to replace him and won't miss a beat.

I like the optimism here but what is that based on? Despite recent success we have a long history of shambolic appointments. Who is in the frame for this critical position?

[azabob]

I’d be surprised if we don’t already have a fair idea on who will be doing the role.

[1eyedog]

Sellout

[Bulldog4life]

I accept the job. Please let Peter, Ameet & Chris know I'll be in tomorrow to start.

George Constanza could do it BT and so can you.

[bulldogtragic]

George Constanza could do it BT and so can you.

Thanks. But are you equating me to George Costanza? Anyway, I think we can find improvement in the list we already have. Three words. Cotton footy jumpers.

[Twodogs]

Oh yes. Cotton will do nicely

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Thanks. But are you equating me to George Costanza? Anyway, I think we can find improvement in the list we already have. Three words. Cotton footy jumpers.

Just think of how the players will feel with that breathable material.

Also i hear Peter loves a calzone.

[bornadog]

Thanks. But are you equating me to George Costanza? Anyway, I think we can find improvement in the list we already have. Three words. Cotton footy jumpers.

As long as it is not puffy shirts :D

[bulldogtragic]

Just think of how the players will feel with that breathable material.

Also i hear Peter loves a calzone.

Exactly. Cotton breathes, you see, it's much softer. Imagine playing games and our team is five degrees cooler than the other team. Don't you think that would be an advantage? They're cooler, they're more comfortable, they're happier,. They're gonna play better.

BT to go down in club folklore I predict.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Exactly. Cotton breathes, you see, it's much softer. Imagine playing games and our team is five degrees cooler than the other team. Don't you think that would be an advantage? They're cooler, they're more comfortable, they're happier,. They're gonna play better.

BT to go down in club folklore I predict.

PS I hope you're a communist.

And if any of us see you driving around the VUWO carpark dragging the 2016 premiership cup behind we know you'll be trying to follow JMac to GWS

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Exactly. Cotton breathes, you see, it's much softer. Imagine playing games and our team is five degrees cooler than the other team. Don't you think that would be an advantage? They're cooler, they're more comfortable, they're happier,. They're gonna play better.

BT to go down in club folklore I predict.

Yep. Polyester is not a natural fibre. What could go wrong?

[Twodogs]

PS I hope you're not a communist.

I am, does that help?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I am, does that help?

Certainly will. Should allow us to get some players from AFEL's GWS. Unfortunately for BT it may mean a lot of meetings with the crazy AFEL regime

[Axe Man]

PS I hope you're a communist.

Bulldogtragic is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is *not* a porn star!

[bulldogtragic]

Bulldogtragic is not a communist. He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is *not* a porn star!

Depends how you define 'star' I guess.

[Twodogs]

Certainly will. Should allow us to get some players from AFEL's GWS. Unfortunately for BT it may mean a lot of meetings with the crazy AFEL regime


I knew there would be a prize!

Hah! So much for the workers controlling the means of production huh?

[Bulldog4life]

Thanks. But are you equating me to George Costanza? Anyway, I think we can find improvement in the list we already have. Three words. Cotton footy jumpers.

BT George is legend. Take it as a compliment.

[bulldogtragic]

BT George is legend. Take it as a compliment.

He is. I do. :D

[bornadog]

He is. I do. :D

Well BT, you need to do a George with your interview with Peter Gordon:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWCGs27_xPI

[Go_Dogs]

Rendell sounds good but I wonder if he'd stick his beak in too much for the recruiting side and quickly find himself at odds with Dalrymple, much like Jason was rumoured to be?

[boydogs]

Rendell sounds good but I wonder if he'd stick his beak in too much for the recruiting side and quickly find himself at odds with Dalrymple, much like Jason was rumoured to be?

Should the recruiter report to the list manager anyway?

[GVGjr]

Rendell sounds good but I wonder if he'd stick his beak in too much for the recruiting side and quickly find himself at odds with Dalrymple, much like Jason was rumoured to be?

I'm not so sure on this GD, I've seem him at games this year and I think he would be more likely to support and mentor rather than take over. Just an opinion and without any real evidence.

[bornadog]

According to Brian Waldron:

"Matt Rendell and Jason Cripps are going to St Kilda.


Scott Clayton is going to replace Cripps at Port Adelaide."

[Happy Days]

According to Brian Waldron:

"Matt Rendell and Jason Cripps are going to St Kilda.


Scott Clayton is going to replace Cripps at Port Adelaide."

So they're both still available?

[Twodogs]

So they're both still available?


Worringly so is Scott Clayton...

[GVGjr]

It's a shame if Rendell isn't going to be a list manager but we should have a number of candidates interested.

[ledge]

We should already have one lined up, we obviously had decided to look around a while ago, we weren't looking to signup JMac I'm a hurry and maybe the change in the role we didn't see Suiting him or visa versa.
Or maybe they made an offer he couldn't refuse.

[MrMahatma]

Half this board always bemoan him getting bent over at the trade table. So for them, surely it's an upgrade that he's at the club full of young and gettable talent!?

Personally, I'm disappointed. But cest la vie.

[jeemak]

Half this board always bemoan him getting bent over at the trade table. So for them, surely it's an upgrade that he's at the club full of young and gettable talent!?

Personally, I'm disappointed. But cest la vie.

I'm with you mostly. Much of the board isolate trade period into individual deals rather than looking at it from a strategic perspective overall, where the outcome is more important than the individual deals.

It doesn't help that most of the media, with journalistic backgrounds (if we're lucky) dish out opinion on negotiation principles they've never had to employ themselves as the trade period is live. The big picture gets forgotten.

[GVGjr]

Half this board always bemoan him getting bent over at the trade table. So for them, surely it's an upgrade that he's at the club full of young and gettable talent!?

Personally, I'm disappointed. But cest la vie.

J-Mac performed well with his time with us. I would have liked us to turn the list over more each year but there is a bit more to it than just him. The trade aspect has been over played as there is always a committee that oversees the decisions. We are not perceived to be a destination and I don't see that as his fault.
I am surprised he is leaving to do the same job somewhere else because I thought he was more ambitious than that.
I remain confident we will find a quality replacement and generally it's not a bad thing to bring in fresh people to a club.

[boydogs]

We are not perceived to be a destination and I don't see that as his fault

We have the second fewest number of players recruited from other clubs on our list, despite bringing in 3 this trade period. Maybe with those 3 things are turning around, and Carlton aren't exactly the yardstick of the AFL, but it is an issue

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-12-02/which-club-has-the-most-recycled-players

[bornadog]

I am surprised he is leaving to do the same job somewhere else because I thought he was more ambitious than that.

I could be wrong, but I thought I read he would oversee both list management and recruiting?

[comrade]

Any chance Dalrymple is going to be given a promotion?

[bulldogtragic]

Any chance Dalrymple is going to be given a promotion?

Id hope not, in the sense of his drafting ability being sublime and probably worth more to the club. But, I'd be giving him more money to ensure he stays though.

[azabob]

Id hope not, in the sense of his drafting ability being sublime and probably worth more to the club. But, I'd be giving him more money to ensure he stays though.

My initial thoughts were the same as yours. But upon reflection if he wants to expand his role and assume more responsibility and he is capable of it, I think we should promote him, otherwise we risk losing him.

We will still have him at the club at overseeing the recruiting and ensuring that the process is still robust and as a result I am confident that we would still see the same results at the draft table.

[GVGjr]

Any chance Dalrymple is going to be given a promotion?

No reason why he shouldn't be considered but it's more about meeting with player managers, working on a list profile and plotting out the next number of years rather than just assessing talent. Perhaps that doesn't suit him.

[Twodogs]

No reason why he shouldn't be considered but it's more about meeting with player managers, working on a list profile and plotting out the next number of years rather than just assessing talent. Perhaps that doesn't suit him.


Dalrymple's role in talent identification and acquisition is a different set of skills to the hard nosed negotiating and making difficult calls that Jmac's role called for I would have thought.

[chef]

Why would you want to move Dal away from recruiting, crazy talk.

[Twodogs]

Why would you want to move Dal away from recruiting, crazy talk.

Exactly. It's only the government that promotes its employees into positions where they have no idea what they are doing.

[ledge]

Exactly. It's only the government that promotes its employees into positions where they have no idea what they are doing.

Wrong !! I work for one of the two big grocery companies and my god the people promoted are about 18,casual and have no experience in anything, then try and tell people of 50 that have been in the industry over 10 years what to do.
I have worked in both private and government run companies and I will tell you the government has better promotion chances if you have experience, private companies want kids who have no idea and will just say yes to everything. The managers and immediate co ordinators are the most inept people I've ever worked under.

[Bulldog Joe]

Wrong !! I work for one of the two big grocery companies and my god the people promoted are about 18,casual and have no experience in anything, then try and tell people of 50 that have been in the industry over 10 years what to do.

It is actually bureaucracy that promote to the level of incompetence and the all the big companies match the public service in that regard.

Lots of rules to prevent people who are good at their job from actually just doing their job.

On the position of Dalrymple, we should simply be making sure he has no reason to want to leave and he should never be promoted away from what he is really at the cutting edge for expertise.

Happy to give him any title that makes him feel valued, but please keep him in charge of recruiting while he is doing such a fantastic job.

[Remi Moses]

Why fix something that’s not broken ? Darymple’s been brilliant in the last few years ( 1st year aside) .

[Twodogs]

It is actually bureaucracy that promote to the level of incompetence and the all the big companies match the public service in that regard.

Lots of rules to prevent people who are good at their job from actually just doing their job.

On the position of Dalrymple, we should simply be making sure he has no reason to want to leave and he should never be promoted away from what he is really at the cutting edge for expertise.

Happy to give him any title that makes him feel valued, but please keep him in charge of recruiting while he is doing such a fantastic job.

Oh yes! There is a Frontline episode called Eye Disease that addresses exactly that point. They give Mike Moore a new title to keep him happy-Executive Producer but he keeps conflating the acronym (EP) in his head with ELP and constantly refers to himself as the "Extra Long Penis". Great EP of a great show!

[Rocco Jones]

Oh yes! There is a Frontline episode called Eye Disease that addresses exactly that point. They give Mike Moore a new title to keep him happy-Executive Producer but he keeps conflating the acronym (EP) in his head with ELP and constantly refers to himself as the "Extra Long Penis". Great ep of a great show!

Amazing show. Sad that Current Affairs shows are now actually less professional than Frontline.

[hujsh]

Amazing show. Sad that Current Affairs shows are now actually less professional than Frontline.

Were they ever really more professional?

[mjp]

I don't understand why we wouldn't give Dalrymple a shot. Showing good skills in one position shouldn't preclude you from being promoted into another position should you have ambitions in that area...

I have no idea whether he is interested but if he is, shouldn't we be giving him a chance rather than telling him to keep living life inside his current cardboard box? Preventing people from challenging themselves is one surefire way to trigger them to move into another organisation who will offer them that chance...

[Bulldog Joe]

I don't understand why we wouldn't give Dalrymple a shot. Showing good skills in one position shouldn't preclude you from being promoted into another position should you have ambitions in that area...

I have no idea whether he is interested but if he is, shouldn't we be giving him a chance rather than telling him to keep living life inside his current cardboard box? Preventing people from challenging themselves is one surefire way to trigger them to move into another organisation who will offer them that chance...

I don't disagree with this, however it would need to be Dalrymple wanting the move and at the very least, I would want him to have an oversight of the recruiting side of the operation.

[Go_Dogs]

I don't disagree with this, however it would need to be Dalrymple wanting the move and at the very least, I would want him to have an oversight of the recruiting side of the operation.

How would he go making tough decisions about players he's recruited to the club? Could his judgments about players and their potential to play certain roles lead to imbalances in the list?

If he's interested I think he interviews for the role but there's a few matters we'd want to be comfortable with, along with him being the most credentialed candidate before proceeding.

[comrade]

Any chance Dalrymple is going to be given a promotion?

Damn.

[bornadog]

Damn.
Probably the reason he left

[GVGjr]

Probably the reason he left

Are you saying he applied for the list managers role and was overlooked?

[bornadog]

Are you saying he applied for the list managers role and was overlooked?
Just a guess

[comrade]

Probably the reason he left

If so, Sam Power had better be damn good at his job.

[Ozza]

Hope this isn't the second time we've made a bad decision recruiting Sam!

[GVGjr]

Just a guess

Sorry, when you said 'Probably' I thought I'd missed something along the way.

[Sedat]

I don't understand why we wouldn't give Dalrymple a shot. Showing good skills in one position shouldn't preclude you from being promoted into another position should you have ambitions in that area...

I have no idea whether he is interested but if he is, shouldn't we be giving him a chance rather than telling him to keep living life inside his current cardboard box? Preventing people from challenging themselves is one surefire way to trigger them to move into another organisation who will offer them that chance...
What are this week's lotto numbers mjp? :eek:

[jeemak]

What was Dalrymple going to do with us aside from heading up recruiting? List management?

I'm not sure if I've missed something, I'm probably just not enamoured with enough inside information just like everyone else, but at what stage has he shown himself to be an obvious list manager candidate?

I get that you need to promote people and back them to extend themselves and the organisation they work for, but, given he's gone to Sydney for pretty the exact same remit he had with us says to me he's carrying a fairly specific skills set and knows which lane he needs to operate within...........it's just a question of how much he can be paid to do it.

[Remi Moses]

Let’s cut to the chase, he’s probably getting more coin up in Sydney . The usual cliches come out in this situation .
Good luck to him