Welcome to the Western Bulldogs:- Josh Schache

[Topdog]

25&40 i can certainly live with

[Ozza]

I'm bullish on Schache, he didn't want to be there this year and it showed with his output... but he has some traits that I like, he can kick and he can mark.

Think we will look back at this trade and be happy with it in a few years time and if you look what we had to give up to get a highly rated tall forward in Tom Boyd to the club, this looks a steal.

I tend to agree that he is better than being given credit for. Played in the worst side in the comp as a forward, and was still 19 at the time of his last game.

What worries me is structure-wise potentially having him and Tom Boyd - 2 x 200cm forwards who don't apply pressure. It probably means that Boyd is more ruck than forward.

[Jam Donuts]

Schache is ours pick 25 and 40

[LostDoggy]

Finally the club is in remission. We really should be celebrating that the entire Stringer camp has been cut out and we can begin to heal. Who cares that Essendon got him cheap, a short term win for them but more importantly a long term win for us.

[Mofra]

I was against Schache until I read the Brisbane Lions board on BF a few days ago.

Given any tall we take this year will take years and Schache at least has a huge tank for a KPF he's likely to be better than any potential pick 25 we would have picked up

[Mantis]

What worries me is structure-wise potentially having him and Tom Boyd - 2 x 200cm forwards who don't apply pressure. It probably means that Boyd is more ruck than forward.

They'll just have to mark it then.

[bulldogtragic]

I tend to agree that he is better than being given credit for. Played in the worst side in the comp as a forward, and was still 19 at the time of his last game.

What worries me is structure-wise potentially having him and Tom Boyd - 2 x 200cm forwards who don't apply pressure. It probably means that Boyd is more ruck than forward.

Could be a short term issue. Longer term I don't mind if we have a couple of live wire, high pressure, super fast small forwards. It's something I hope we can add to the playing group ahead.

[LostDoggy]

Really happy for Josh that he gets back close to his family. A fresh start for him and wish him all the best.

[Rocket Science]

http://i64.tinypic.com/5zpxd.png

Boyd, Schache, English - maybe we're building a basketball team.

[Bulldog4life]

Look if that 2018 2nd wasn't included I would have been very happy overall. We've now got to get back in there now somehow. Hopefully doesn't hurt us in getting West.

The other way to look at it is Carlton most likely would not have traded picks with us if we didn't give up our 2nd 2018 pick. We would have not had pick 16 or Schache then.

[1eyedog]

Schache for 25 and 30 is ace. My mail was we were going to get him with 30 mins left but I thought the KY would be out either by having to give up 16 or bundled 25 with Jong.

Great finale to an otherwise highly stressful trade period for us. First time we've had two 200 cm players at FF and CHF for a long, long time and draft picks 1 and 2 as well.

Let's hope Tom gets some consistency and Schache can actually play.

[lemmon]

Happy at that price. Probably sends Boyd almost permanently into the ruck - where Bevo likes him anyway.

[1eyedog]

We have some serious young key position / big man talent at the club Schache, Boyd, Young, English...

[Rocket Science]

Happy at that price. Probably sends Boyd almost permanently into the ruck - where Bevo likes him anyway.

Which leaves Roughie where? With Trengove in he won't be down back.

Assuming Roughie's deployed in the ruck with Boyd giving him periodic chop outs I wonder how we'll craft a forward strategy around Boyd & Schache ...

That's assuming everybody stays healthy and is getting a game.

[whythelongface]

I'm bullish on Schache, he didn't want to be there this year and it showed with his output... but he has some traits that I like, he can kick and he can mark.

Think we will look back at this trade and be happy with it in a few years time and if you look what we had to give up to get a highly rated tall forward in Tom Boyd to the club, this looks a steal.

Great summation.

[bornadog]

http://i64.tinypic.com/5zpxd.png

Boyd, Schache, English - maybe we're building a basketball team.

Roughy 200cm, TC 200 cm - the land of the giants

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Do we know details on Schache's contract yet? Years and $$

[EasternWest]

Hey no giving up Jong either. I like to think Brisbane asked for him and we said "no way".

[bornadog]

Hey no giving up Jong either. I like to think Brisbane asked for him and we said "no way".

Happy with that

[WBFC4FFC]

Can Schache play down back? Might be a way to ease him into the side and create more depth down there.

I hear Young is considered a future forward but given his age, they thought it best to play him down back until he develops a bigger frame!

[Webby]

Can Schache play down back? Might be a way to ease him into the side and create more depth down there.

I hear Young is considered a future forward but given his age, they thought it best to play him down back until he develops a bigger frame!

Was thinking the same thing just earlier - once the relief kicked in. Jake simply didn't have the smarts to play down there. Good development for a young key forward to be swung down back. I remember a year at CHB was the making of Granty back in the day ('95 from memory.) certainly nice to have the option.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

I'm not bitter and twisted but I would feel profoundly satisfied if Essendon's Jake Stringer is a poisoned chalice.
Now that would make this trading period a major success. We may not need Jake to be a millstone at Essendon for it to be so, with Schache joining us as well as Crozier and Trengove.

[bulldogtragic]

Hey no giving up Jong either. I like to think Brisbane asked for him and we said "no way".

That’s where the lateral thinking to trade our 2018 second for pick 40 was good. Not the giving up so much, but the extra points made it a solid draft points trade, which they then used in another strategic trade of picks with Richmond. But for us it sealed Schache & Jong stayed. Was a good move.

[GVGjr]

I'm bullish on Schache, he didn't want to be there this year and it showed with his output... but he has some traits that I like, he can kick and he can mark.

Think we will look back at this trade and be happy with it in a few years time and if you look what we had to give up to get a highly rated tall forward in Tom Boyd to the club, this looks a steal.

If he is over the homesick factor we have got a bargain. He's already had 27 games of senior football and will get a lot better with us. The added advantage it now means we can go into games with just one ruckman and potentially 3 players who can support. No more Bonts contesting centre square contests.

Schache will be a great addition.

[bulldogtragic]

If he is over the homesick factor we have got a bargain. He's already had 27 games of senior football and will get a lot better with us. The added advantage it now means we can go into games with just one ruckman and potentially 3 players who can support. No more Bonts contesting centre square contests.

Schache will be a great addition.

Exactly. The team dynamic and make up will be good. Roughy/TC/English on form solo with a couple of minutes from Boyd/Schache/Tengove will mean only one primary ruck. Probably saves us rookie drafting one. And Boyd should get more time to develop as a KPF. Good things.

An article just posted quoted that they see Roughy rucking, and Boyd & Shaq as a forward talent combo who can help.

[bornadog]

Redpath will really have some competition now.

[Ghost Dog]

Very happy with this. Gives us a lot of options. One issue remains. How do I pronounce his name?

[bornadog]

Very happy with this. Gives us a lot of options. One issue remains. How do I pronounce his name?

We need to check with Chef

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Very happy with this. Gives us a lot of options. One issue remains. How do I pronounce his name?

Shack-e.

[whythelongface]

So our 2015 draftees are:

2. Schache
25. Dunkley
26. Collins
35. Adams
48. Williams

Dunkley, Williams and Adams in our top 22. Just need Collins and Schache to develop and this draft will have produced 5 long term prospects.

[Doc26]

Interesting how this has played out. We're forced to lose a dynamic forward in Jake, very cheaply based on significant character flaws and as a result only one suitor (the creeps) in the market . And then we pick up a highly touted key forward, very cheaply based on questionable character traits (of course very different to Jake's), with us the only legitimate suitor. Let's call it a draw.

[Webby]

Interesting how this has played out. We're forced to lose a dynamic forward in Jake, very cheaply based on significant character flaws and as a result only one suitor (the creeps) in the market . And then we pick up a highly touted key forward, very cheaply based on questionable character traits (of course very different to Jake's), with us the only legitimate suitor. Let's call it a draw.

Difference being that one's got honest issues, whereas the other has dishonest, dishonourable issues!
Call it a win!!

[Bulldog4life]

IT TOOK until the final 30 seconds of the trade period for a dramatic deal taking talented forward Josh Schache to the Western Bulldogs to be lodged with the AFL.

Schache’s future hung in the balance throughout the entire trade period, with the 20-year-old’s move to the Dogs not sealed until a chaotic final few seconds of the window.

The Bulldogs were made to wait until a move taking Jake Stringer to Essendon had been completed before pouncing on Schache, initially offering Pick 25 for the Brisbane youngster.

When that was rejected, it appeared as though Schache’s hopes of a return home had fallen flat.

However, the Western Bulldogs soon renewed its efforts with an offer of Picks 25 and 40, which was enough to force Brisbane’s hand and accept the club’s bulked-up bid.

Cccording to Lions footy boss David Noble, the paperwork wasn’t lodged with the AFL until just seconds before the trade period’s deadline came to a close.

“It was about 30 seconds away,” Noble said.

“It was pretty close. Sometimes you just have to persist and hang in there.

“We all have different elements of what we think is fair and equal value. You have to wait for some other pieces to fall.

“I think if you look at the points value, it works out to be about Pick 12 or 13. It’s in that market place. We also moved back into the first round, with Richmond’s Pick 15.

“It’s not always just about where the pick is, it’s what you can do with it. And it’s your strategy overall with what the trade and draft period looks like.

“For us, this is year two of our three-year strategy.”

Schache was drafted to Brisbane with Pick 2 just two years ago, but his value plummeted due to a series of form slumps and a request to return home to Victoria.

However, the Bulldogs remain confident the young forward can return to the type of form that saw him become one of his draft crop’s best players and saw him claim the Larke Medal.

“We see the glass half full,” Western Bulldogs footy boss Chris Grant said.

“That’s the approach we’re taking with Josh. He’s a young player. He’s got some work to do in his game, but we really think we can help his development and also with some off-field support.

“The positives far outweigh what the concerns might be as a young, developing player.”

The Bulldogs will pair Schache with former top draft pick Tom Boyd inside 50, having also completed a blockbuster trade to secure his signature from the Giants at the end of 2014.

“It’s all about talent,” Grant said.

“Both of those boys are talented players. It doesn’t matter if you’re 5ft4 or 6ft7, if you can play the game then you’re a real asset to the team.

“We see a great combination between both of those players.”

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-trades-2017-how-the-bulldogs-completed-a-dramatic-josh-schache-trade-with-30-seconds-to-spare/news-story/d21dfa4f9af35c2025cc35628d3b53bc

[kruder]

Anyone know the contract details?

[LongWait]

Anyone know the contract details?

The Hun reported his deal with Brisbane when he resigned was two years at $300k p.a. plus up to $150k p.a. in performance pay. That might be a guide.

[bulldogtragic]

Anyone know the contract details?

Assuming we just took it over. Don't hold me to it. I think it was a two year extension, for 2018 & 2019. Somewhere this week I read/heard it was around low $300's.

[GVGjr]

As a junior footballer he had outstanding endurance and I think he has all the tools to be a very effective senior footballer.
By playing at Brisbane he hasn't tasted the level of success and if we can provide him a competitive and productive environment I can see him starting to thrive with us during the 2018 season.

[Go_Dogs]

Good to have Schache on board.

Does this increase our chance of retaining HC and moving Dahl to a small forward role?

[G-Mo77]

Good to have Schache on board.

Does this increase our chance of retaining HC and moving Dahl to a small forward role?

No chance of HC staying. He'll be a DFA signing for GWS

Edit: I assume HC is Honeychurch

[EasternWest]

Happy with that

Damn right.

[bulldogtragic]

There's a great interview up on the club website with Shaq.

1. Great to see him smiling and happy
2. He likes to work up the ground with his endurance, and then work hard back to goal with a good left foot. Sound like an aging forward we've got. Surely a mentor role. Sounds like he wants to play a different role than Boyd, which makes playing them both easy.
3. Bevo rang him. Said everyone needs to play multiple roles. Rucking or "other areas of the ground". Don't donthat Shaq, which area of the ground.
3a. How good would it be having a first ruck and then only a few minutes from him and Boyd. Best of all worlds.
4. They have in the new jumper with Mercedes Vans on the back. Media guys work quick.
5. He looks like a prototype of a human being if all men's sports coaches designed a human being.

[bulldogtragic]

As a junior footballer he had outstanding endurance and I think he has all the tools to be a very effective senior footballer.
By playing at Brisbane he hasn't tasted the level of success and if we can provide him a competitive and productive environment I can see him starting to thrive with us during the 2018 season.

Clearly he was considered a boom/bust prospect by Victorian clubs. I think in years to come we will be talking about 25 & 40 for him and debating if this was the best trade we've done. So yes, I'm in the boom view of him.

[hujsh]

If endurance and moving around the ground is his strength then it does make it easier to play him and Boyd. Certainly doesn't look built up like Boyd did when he joined.

[Eastdog]

Welcome to the Dogs Josh.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Very impressive interview.

We've heard all of the "concerns" about young Josh, and whilst he no doubt has a few things to work through, I thought he presented very well. Spoke honestly and clearly, looked as though he knows what he needs to work on.

Most pleasing, he looked VERY happy to be coming to us - great to see.

Confident we've got ourselves a genuine steal here.

[AndrewP6]

I'm going with the very obvious "Shack" for a nickname until I hear a better one. Go The Shack!

[Dry Rot]

If endurance and moving around the ground is his strength .

Have we got the next N Riewoldt?

[hujsh]

Have we got the next N Riewoldt?

Well I didn't want to make the comparison (even less so since that makes Boyd Koschitzke)

[Dry Rot]

even less so since that makes Boyd Koschitzke

Boyd is lucky that Gia isn't playing for another side and/or has retired.

[Happy Days]

I'm going with the very obvious "Shack" for a nickname until I hear a better one. Go The Shack!

What about "The Schackage"?

[Dry Rot]

I have watched various Schache highlights and now realise that we have made an absolutely hideous mistake trading for him.

He simply won't fit into our team because, unlike the rest of them, he knows how to kick the ball through the two big sticks, regardless of angle.

He will be rightly ostracised by the rest of our team for this blatant elitism.

[macca]

Welcome SchacheEEEEE! How good is it that we finally get a young player, key forward who wants to come to our club.

Relieved that we kept Jongy. That would have been a fit of delirium if we traded him. 2xBOG in VFL final. Players like that do not grow on trees, and he has come a long way, and has heaps more upside.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Google says Schache, German is pronounced 'Sharkay'. I don't know how Josh pronounces it but Sharkie will do once he snags a few.

[1eyedog]

I have watched various Schache highlights and now realise that we have made an absolutely hideous mistake trading for him.

He simply won't fit into our team because, unlike the rest of them, he knows how to kick the ball through the two big sticks, regardless of angle.

He will be rightly ostracised by the rest of our team for this blatant elitism.

Let's not let hard stats get in the way of a feel good story but he's kicked 24/25 so far in his career. Personally, I think he'll fit right in.

[Bulldog4life]

Get to know recruit Josh Schache, with westernbulldogs.com.au identifying five facts about our new forward.

1. Josh was taken with pick two in the 2015 NAB AFL Draft.

2. He won the Larke Medal for his performance in the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships in 2015, where he also he kicked a record 24 goals.

3. Known for a reliable left foot, the 196cm Seymour product also has high level aerobic capacity for his size – he recorded a 14.1 score in the beep test.

4. Schache played under 18s with new teammates Kieran Collins and Josh Dunkley.

5. Josh's all time favourite movie is I Am Legend.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-10-19/five-facts-josh-schache

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Get to know recruit Josh Schache, with westernbulldogs.com.au identifying five facts about our new forward.

1. Josh was taken with pick two in the 2015 NAB AFL Draft.

2. He won the Larke Medal for his performance in the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships in 2015, where he also he kicked a record 24 goals.

3. Known for a reliable left foot, the 196cm Seymour product also has high level aerobic capacity for his size – he recorded a 14.1 score in the beep test.

4. Schache played under 18s with new teammates Kieran Collins and Josh Dunkley.

5. Josh's all time favourite movie is I Am Legend.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-10-19/five-facts-josh-schache

And so it begins. So is he 199cm or 196?

[bulldogtragic]

And so it begins. So is he 199cm or 196?

That was when he was drafted!!! :D

[Mantis]

4. Schache played under 18s with new teammates Kieran Collins and Josh Dunkley.



An important point.. Knowing a few guys will no doubt help him settle in.

[choconmientay]

Assuming we just took it over. Don't hold me to it. I think it was a two year extension, for 2018 & 2019. Somewhere this week I read/heard it was around low $300's.

Last June 8, 2017..... The second-year player had been expected to demand offers worth up to $700,000 a season from a Melbourne-based team.
However, Schache has opted to stay on what is believed to be a deal worth $350,000 a year.

Link: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/josh-schache-signs-new-twoyear-deal-with-brisbane-lions/news-story/8995a57362aae41f39da07fec9e09fa2

[Twodogs]

Can Schache play down back? Might be a way to ease him into the side and create more depth down there.

I hear Young is considered a future forward but given his age, they thought it best to play him down back until he develops a bigger frame!

It's a good idea. Learn about life in the Men's Department. Bevo likes his players to be versatile. He will spend some time in the ruck too probably.


Was thinking the same thing just earlier - once the relief kicked in. Jake simply didn't have the smarts to play down there. Good development for a young key forward to be swung down back. I remember a year at CHB was the making of Granty back in the day ('95 from memory.) certainly nice to have the option.

Granty would have won the Brownlow playing at CHB in 1996 if we'd hung on in the last round against Essondon. They pip us by 3 points and the votes on Browlow night were Hird, J. Essendon 3 votes, Grant, C. 2 votes. Hird the turd won by a vote.


I have watched various Schache highlights and now realise that we have made an absolutely hideous mistake trading for him.

He simply won't fit into our team because, unlike the rest of them, he knows how to kick the ball through the two big sticks, regardless of angle.

He will be rightly ostracised by the rest of our team for this blatant elitism.


Don't worry. He won't know what direction the team is kicking in by round 9 if all goes according to our normal plan.


Welcome SchacheEEEEE! How good is it that we finally get a young player, key forward who wants to come to our club.

Relieved that we kept Jongy. That would have been a fit of delirium if we traded him. 2xBOG in VFL final. Players like that do not grow on trees, and he has come a long way, and has heaps more upside.

Perfect. He even has the right name for a big marking forward.

[Throughandthrough]

Get to know recruit Josh Schache, with westernbulldogs.com.au identifying five facts about our new forward.

1. Josh was taken with pick two in the 2015 NAB AFL Draft.

2. He won the Larke Medal for his performance in the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships in 2015, where he also he kicked a record 24 goals.

3. Known for a reliable left foot, the 196cm Seymour product also has high level aerobic capacity for his size – he recorded a 14.1 score in the beep test.

4. Schache played under 18s with new teammates Kieran Collins and Josh Dunkley.

5. Josh's all time favourite movie is I Am Legend.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-10-19/five-facts-josh-schache



and his late Dad Laurence once kicked 25 goals as Full Forward for a country team somewhere

[Axe Man]

and his late Dad Laurence once kicked 25 goals as Full Forward for a country team somewhere

Was for Essendon under 19s v Sydney under 19s in 1985 according to Wiki.

[Twodogs]

Get to know recruit Josh Schache, with westernbulldogs.com.au identifying five facts about our new forward.

1. Josh was taken with pick two in the 2015 NAB AFL Draft.

2. He won the Larke Medal for his performance in the NAB AFL Under-18 Championships in 2015, where he also he kicked a record 24 goals.

3. Known for a reliable left foot, the 196cm Seymour product also has high level aerobic capacity for his size – he recorded a 14.1 score in the beep test.

4. Schache played under 18s with new teammates Kieran Collins and Josh Dunkley.

5. Josh's all time favourite movie is I Am Legend.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-10-19/five-facts-josh-schache

Dunno about that. Who was the last Larke medallist we had? That short fat kid who debuted in the semi final v Sydney wasn't it?

[Twodogs]

Let's not let hard stats get in the way of a feel good story but he's kicked 24/25 so far in his career. Personally, I think he'll fit right in.

Seriously with that kicking action he should be a reliable kick at goal.

[Axe Man]

Dunno about that. Who was the last Larke medallist we had? That short fat kid who debuted in the semi final v Sydney wasn't it?

Yep - Andrew Hooper. Before him was Sam Power! On the positive side Danny Southern and Steve Kolyniuk were also Larke medalists.

[LongWait]

Last June 8, 2017..... The second-year player had been expected to demand offers worth up to $700,000 a season from a Melbourne-based team.
However, Schache has opted to stay on what is believed to be a deal worth $350,000 a year.

Link: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/josh-schache-signs-new-twoyear-deal-with-brisbane-lions/news-story/8995a57362aae41f39da07fec9e09fa2

The Hun reported that Schache's recent deal with Brisbane was for $350k per annum with up to $150k in performance pay. It was reported to be a two year deal.

[Twodogs]

The Hun reported that Schache's recent deal with Brisbane was for $350k per annum with up to $150k in performance pay. It was reported to be a two year deal.

Is that 200k + 150k or 350k + 150k? What's performance pay is it bonuses for reaching targets?

*edit* worked it out 350 + 150=500k

[Twodogs]

Yep - Andrew Hooper. Before him was Sam Power! On the positive side Danny Southern and Steve Kolyniuk were also Larke medalists.

That should mean we are due for a good one then.

[LongWait]

Is that 200k + 150k or 350k + 150k? What's performance pay is it bonuses for reaching targets?

*edit* worked it out 350 + 150=500k

The Hun article wasn't specific about what the performance bonus part was. I hope it doesn't include match payments but it probably does. I understand that some AFL contracts ignore any additional payment for matches played and some have match payments as part of the bonus or incentive (which costs the club a lot if the player plays a lot of senior games, but is great for the club if the player spends a lot of time in the VFL.)

EDIT - I edited the post to try to express myself more clearly.

[bulldogtragic]

The Hun article wasn't specific about what the performance bonus part was. I hope it doesn't include match payments but it probably does. A $350k base excluding match payments is a lot different to a base that ignores match payments. I understand that some AFL contracts ignore match payments and some have match payments as part of the bonus or incentive (which costs the club a lot if the player plays a lot of senior games, but is great for the club if the player spends a lot of time in the VFL.)

You'd hope we'd be compassionate with him and his manager, but also push on the contract terms/value considering it was us or realistically sit the year out Cam McCarthy style.

[KT31]

I'm going with the very obvious "Shack" for a nickname until I hear a better one. Go The Shack!

The Love Shack !!! :D

[bulldogtragic]

The Love Shack !!! :D

That's a Rocco Special Thread if ever there was one! :D

I can see T-shirts, stickers, badges...

[Mofra]

Clearly he was considered a boom/bust prospect by Victorian clubs. I think in years to come we will be talking about 25 & 40 for him and debating if this was the best trade we've done. So yes, I'm in the boom view of him.
I think the same - but 25 & 40 in a thin draft is a very cheap price to pay when you consider that genuine KPFs are almost always taken at the pointy end of the draft (as Schache was).

Having two pre-seasons under his belt helps too, and he can actually run which helps us link/transition out of defence so he actually plays a style that fits into our existing style of play.

I do worry about his competitiveness however his first year he did a lot of flying in packs. If we get 2016 Schache we're laughing, if we get 2017 Schache his ceiling is role player.

[Ghost Dog]

Lloyd once said of Schache, " His leading and know-how as a junior forward is as good as I have ever seen, and his kicking is the purest I have ever seen". So to get the almost-number-1 draft pick a few years back at that price seems a great deal. Enjoying his highlights package on YT. He does swing through in a really balanced way like Barry Hall - one of the best kicks I've ever seen at our club.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Lloyd once said of Schache, " His leading and know-how as a junior forward is as good as I have ever seen, and his kicking is the purest I have ever seen". So to get the almost-number-1 draft pick a few years back at that price seems a great deal. Enjoying his highlights package on YT. He does swing through in a really balanced way like Barry Hall - one of the best kicks I've ever seen at our club.

Schache is very well regarded in his home town of Seymour, some who have strong connections with the WB. We could be looking at a future star key forward at just age 20.

[Twodogs]

I think the same - but 25 & 40 in a thin draft is a very cheap price to pay when you consider that genuine KPFs are almost always taken at the pointy end of the draft (as Schache was).

Having two pre-seasons under his belt helps too, and he can actually run which helps us link/transition out of defence so he actually plays a style that fits into our existing style of play.

I do worry about his competitiveness however his first year he did a lot of flying in packs. If we get 2016 Schache we're laughing, if we get 2017 Schache his ceiling is role player.


He does lope along beautifully for a big kid. I love his sense of balance when he runs with the ball, he just looks so natural.

Would you rather have a kid with all the talent in the world who sleeps with the light on or a nasty little prick who is an OK kick or mark or handball but puts his head over the ball every time?

I don't know, I keep chopping and changing.

[Bulldog4life]

Sportsday‏ @SportsdayRadio 20h20 hours ago
More
Gerard Healy: "The Dogs could end up in front by losing Stringer but ending up with Schache. It's a good news story (of the trade period)"

[Twodogs]

Sportsday‏ @SportsdayRadio 20h20 hours ago
More
Gerard Healy: "The Dogs could end up in front by losing Stringer but ending up with Schache. It's a good news story (of the trade period)"


Unfortunately as things turned out we ended up in front just by losing Stringer but I am very happy to get Schache. Very keen to see us stretch a few defences next year with various set ups. We can go with two talls and the Bont roaming around or we can go small with Dalhaus and Hunter and JJ and Daniel and Maclean resting forward at the same time and kick the ball along the ground to them (I really want to see if the chaos ball theory works) medium with Dickson, Dale and Lipinski.

[bulldogtragic]

Sportsday‏ @SportsdayRadio 20h20 hours ago
More
Gerard Healy: "The Dogs could end up in front by losing Stringer but ending up with Schache. It's a good news story (of the trade period)"

Kudos Gerard. For the having the courage to say something positive about us, us forcing/losing Stringer and our trade period. I haven't read anything positive, so it's a genuinely note worthy comment. Good on you.

[Twodogs]

Kudos Gerard. For the having the courage to say something positive about us, us forcing/losing Stringer and our trade period. I haven't read anything positive, so it's a genuinely note worthy comment. Good on you.


Buckenara was fairly positive I thought.

[bulldogtragic]

Buckenara was fairly positive I thought.

Oh, forgot about Bucky.

[Twodogs]

Oh, forgot about Bucky.

Although Gerard is a bit of a dog's fan. He usually has something positive to say about us.

[Templeton31]

Although Gerard is a bit of a dog's fan. He usually has something positive to say about us.

I remember at start of 2015 in pre season when we flogged the Pies. It was only pre season but Gerard was all over that we'd made a leap and could be something special. He was right.

[SonofScray]

I am feeling bullish about Shache. Can't imagine him being an electrifying, powerful key forward with all the swagger in the world but can see him reliably taking marks on the long lead up the ground, kicking the footy well and being consistently in the mix for an avg 2 goals a game. He doesn't need to be Carey, or Grant, he just needs to run hard and provide an outlet for kicks that aren't going deep inside 50 and take his chances when he has hands on it I50

[Twodogs]

I am feeling bullish about Shache. Can't imagine him being an electrifying, powerful key forward with all the swagger in the world but can see him reliably taking marks on the long lead up the ground, kicking the footy well and being consistently in the mix for an avg 2 goals a game. He doesn't need to be Carey, or Grant, he just needs to run hard and provide an outlet for kicks that aren't going deep inside 50 and take his chances when he has hands on it I50


Yeah, well. Given our recent experiences with forwards and swagger I'm more than happy with a vanilla tall who can provide 2 or 3 goals each week or sacrifice his own game to let others get off the leash. The moronic Chewbacca tattoo is optional.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Schache's highlights are reliably boring - him going through the motions and kicking the goal...love it.
Reminds me of when we recruited Beasley - he looked really daggy but kept processing the ball through the sticks.

[Murphy'sLore]

In bulldogtragician terms, hopefully Josh will turn out to be more of a Jack than a Jake!

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Ash Hansen is critical to our development of Schache. Hopefully together they can develop Josh's techniques and strategies to maximise his chances of success. Likewise hopefully our mids are going to benefit from having Josh presenting as a target in a way that hang-out-the-back Jake didn't.

[EasternWest]

I am feeling bullish about Shache. Can't imagine him being an electrifying, powerful key forward with all the swagger in the world but can see him reliably taking marks on the long lead up the ground, kicking the footy well and being consistently in the mix for an avg 2 goals a game. He doesn't need to be Carey, or Grant, he just needs to run hard and provide an outlet for kicks that aren't going deep inside 50 and take his chances when he has hands on it I50

Good call SOS. If he fills that role we'll be clear winners in the trade.

[Ghost Dog]

Good call SOS. If he fills that role we'll be clear winners in the trade.

Get Chris Grant to have a word to him.
I love the fact his kicking action is so good. Going to get some value out of him.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Get Chris Grant to have a word to him.
I love the fact his kicking action is so good. Going to get some value out of him.

Yes c'mon Chris, it may not be on your job description but you have the knowledge and credibility to mentor Josh Schache. He needs your proactive support and guidance. Chris Grant your best work yet maybe as Josh's mentor as CHF (wait on, nobody could better your work as player, your second best work).

[Twodogs]

Get Chris Grant to have a word to him.
I love the fact his kicking action is so good. Going to get some value out of him.


Schasche's kicking is fine, don't interfere with it. It's not broken and if we try to fix it we will end up doing something that rhymes with fix but means the opposite to his kicking.

Go on clear off! Keep away from Josh. :)

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Schasche's kicking is fine, don't interfere with it. It's not broken and if we try to fix it we will end up doing something that rhymes with fix but means the opposite to his kicking.

Go on clear off! Keep away from Josh. :)
I don't think the suggestion was that Grant can help Schache's kicking but reading the play, when to lead, how to feed the crumbers etc.

[Twodogs]

I don't think the suggestion was that Grant can help Schache's kicking but reading the play, when to lead, how to feed the crumbers etc.


Carry on then.

[Webby]

Get Chris Grant to have a word to him.
I love the fact his kicking action is so good. Going to get some value out of him.

Great to have someone at the club (not called Simon or Tory) who can kick for goal! Makes life a little less frustrating..!

[Twodogs]

Who's this Simon bloke?

[1eyedog]

Kicks as many points as he does goals but can you blame him? I wouldn't try overly hard if I played for Brisbane either.

[Twodogs]

Kicks as many points as he does goals but can you blame him? I wouldn't try overly hard if I played for Brisbane either.

Yeah, no. You might hurt yourself if you tried too hard.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Also if you try hard you may discover that you're scary good. Not worth it at Brisbane. Now Footscray that's a place to be scary good.

[LostDoggy]

Kicks as many points as he does goals but can you blame him? I wouldn't try overly hard if I played for Brisbane either.

Playing full forward at Brisbane doesn't exactly lend itself to getting a lot of easy shots dead in front either. A lot of shots deep in the pockets.

[LostDoggy]

Great to have someone at the club (not called Simon or Tory) who can kick for goal! Makes life a little less frustrating..!

Certainly a major issue. Interesting to compare 2016 to 2017. We actually created 40 more scoring shots in 2017 for the same end total - 1857 points scored for the H&A season. We kicked 8 less goals and 48 more behinds. With a similiar ratio to 2016 who knows what could've hppened.

[The Underdog]

Playing full forward at Brisbane doesn't exactly lend itself to getting a lot of easy shots dead in front either. A lot of shots deep in the pockets.

Do you watch much of our delivery into the forward line last year? We ain’t exactly a laces out bunch a lot of the time.

[Twodogs]

Certainly a major issue. Interesting to compare 2016 to 2017. We actually created 40 more scoring shots in 2017 for the same end total - 1857 points scored for the H&A season. We kicked 8 less goals and 48 more behinds. With a similiar ratio to 2016 who knows what could've hppened.


I'm not getting annoyed. I'm pretty calm really.

This is a great opportunity for us.

[1eyedog]

Playing full forward at Brisbane doesn't exactly lend itself to getting a lot of easy shots dead in front either. A lot of shots deep in the pockets.

Wait until round 1 then he'll need to be bending them from the boundary on the 50 ;)

[Remi Moses]

I know it’s to early to call, but he just looks happier .
Looked like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders in 2017

[Twodogs]

I know it’s to early to call, but he just looks happier .
Looked like he had the weight of the world on his shoulders in 2017

There's a look on his face that just says "whacko the did!" Isn't there?

[GVGjr]

There is a Herald Son article on Schache this morning, Apparently he has lost 3kg in an effort to recapture his endurance and running capacity. There is also some speculation that he has also signed a 3 year deal with us.

Schache could be a great news story for us in 2018.

[bulldogtragic]

There is a Herald Son article on Schache this morning, Apparently he has lost 3kg in an effort to recapture his endurance and running capacity. There is also some speculation that he has also signed a 3 year deal with us.

Schache could be a great news story for us in 2018.

What is it with other clubs? Josh hs dropped 3kg already from Brisbane, and Boyd was about 6kg or more heavy from GWS. Cloke dropped 5kg too from memory from Collingwood.

I'd love to know the fine print of that alleged contract. So we didn't just take his 2 year contract off of Brisbane. I like it if true.

[Twodogs]

What is it with other clubs? Josh hs dropped 3kg already from Brisbane, and Boyd was about 6kg or more heavy from GWS. Cloke dropped 5kg too from memory from Collingwood.

I'd love to know the fine print of that alleged contract. So we didn't just take his 2 year contract off of Brisbane. I like it if true.

We may have added a year to get him over.

[boydogs]

Boyd was about 6kg or more heavy from GWS

More like 10kg I reckon

[bulldogtragic]

More like 10kg I reckon

I gave them a puppy fat discount on his first and only season with them... :D

We saw Lake trim down immediately going to Hawthorn and our players have been following suit by and large. And in recruiting Boyd, Cloke & Schache the first thing to do with them alo was to lose weight. I wonder why other clubs still have this preference to have tall, athletic players carrying extra weight? Is there some philosophical or sports science rgument for it I wonder?

[boydogs]

I gave them a puppy fat discount on his first and only season with them... :D

We saw Lake trim down immediately going to Hawthorn and our players have been following suit by and large. And in recruiting Boyd, Cloke & Schache the first thing to do with them alo was to lose weight. I wonder why other clubs still have this preference to have tall, athletic players carrying extra weight? Is there some philosophical or sports science rgument for it I wonder?

All 3 of those players wanted to change clubs and make an impact at their new one. I think they were just motivated to work extra hard, though I know GWS were trying to make Boyd a goalsquare monster as they had Cameron, Patton, Lobb, Stewart & McCarthy as more athletic types

[Twodogs]

I gave them a puppy fat discount on his first and only season with them... :D

We saw Lake trim down immediately going to Hawthorn and our players have been following suit by and large. And in recruiting Boyd, Cloke & Schache the first thing to do with them alo was to lose weight. I wonder why other clubs still have this preference to have tall, athletic players carrying extra weight? Is there some philosophical or sports science rgument for it I wonder?

The game style the coach wants to go with would be the most important consideration I'd think.

I like what you're doing with the word argument there too. It's very east LA

[choconmientay]

I am starting to warm up to him feeling at home at the Bulldogs and have immediate impact in 2018.

Schache ready to make his mark (http://www.sheppnews.com.au/2017/11/09/118595/schache-ready-to-make-his-mark)


Seymour lad Josh Schache can’t wait to pull on his Bulldogs jersey and prove all his doubters wrong on the footy field.

After two seasons playing for the Brisbane Lions, the 20-year-old key forward prospect came back to Victoria in September to be closer to his family.

Despite having a good relationship with the Lions, Schache said living so far away from home was always difficult for him.

‘‘Growing up, I’ve been really close to my mum and my sister since my dad passed away when I was five,’’ he said.

‘‘We moved states when I was about eight or nine, and we’ve created a great environment around home in Seymour.

‘‘Living away from home was tough, because outside of the footy club I didn’t really have anyone I could go to.
‘‘But Brisbane were really good with that — they tried everything they could, and I couldn’t thank the club enough for what they’ve done for me and the family.’’

Part of the problem for Schache was that adding to the long distance separation from family and friends, the former number two draft pick faced relentless pressure from the media.

This meant Schache often had to choose between cutting himself off from his support network, or exposing himself to online criticism.

‘‘I used my phone to stay connected with my mates and family back here ... but I couldn’t use it for weeks due to the amount of scrutiny and the amount of people who have an opinion on you,’’ he said.

‘‘But with the experience I’ve had this year, I feel like I can look at it now and see it in a different way, so I know how to handle it a lot better and just sort of laugh at it, because no-one’s going to think you’re perfect.

‘‘You’ve just got to listen to the people who really matter to you and who know you best.’’

With the trade sorted, Schache has his sights set on training hard during the pre-season and earning the respect of his new team-mates, because despite his reputation as a top draft pick, he said this counted for nothing once you’re in the AFL system.

‘‘Once you get into the AFL you’re just another player, and it’s what you do from there on out that defines you,’’ he said.

‘‘So I’m as motivated as ever to prove everyone wrong and get out there to be a part of something big and something successful at the Bulldogs.’’

In terms of his actual game, Schache has identified a handful of specific areas he wants to improve on — namely his one-on-one ability and his strength in the contest.

And while the former Lion said he was excited about the prospect of building a partnership with Tom Boyd, the number one draft pick in 2013, Schache said Bulldogs fans might be seeing him roam outside the forward line next season.

‘‘I think I might be moving around a bit more, so we can test that out during the pre-season,’’ he said.

‘‘I’ve got my running back up to where it needs to be now, so that can add another string to my bow, because I can get up the ground and maybe into the ruck a bit more, which is exciting.’’

Schache will join other first-to-fourth-year Western Bulldogs players at the club’s opening training session today, with the rest of the team to return on November 20.

By GUS MCCUBBING NOVEMBER 09, 2017

[bulldogtragic]

Good times ahead for him. And us.

[Axe Man]

Interesting that he mentions the possibility of rucking. It's going to be fascinating to see our ruck strategy, I have no idea which way the coaching team will go with Roughy, Trengove, Boyd and Schache.

[bulldogtragic]

Interesting that he mentions the possibility of rucking. It's going to be fascinating to see our ruck strategy, I have no idea which way the coaching team will go with Roughy, Trengove, Boyd and Schache.

I think that's a great spread of talent, and flexibility to play them all. As much as I like Roughy, as soon as English can get in the side we might not have to play a traditional ruckman for a long time. English can play midfield, Trengove back or forward and the other two as tall forwards who play different forward roles. Whoever is the 'tall follower' can depend on the game and how they're performing on the day.

The flip side, I see Campbell not getting a game this year. And if English starts off well and keeps improving at the top level, I can see Roughy getting nudged out of the side. As a free agent at the end of 2018, it might make things interesting for him in where he sees himself getting opportunities.

[Mofra]

Interesting that he mentions the possibility of rucking. It's going to be fascinating to see our ruck strategy, I have no idea which way the coaching team will go with Roughy, Trengove, Boyd and Schache.
With him possibly taking some ruck time there's a chance that not all four play in the same side.

[Twodogs]

Interesting that he mentions the possibility of rucking. It's going to be fascinating to see our ruck strategy, I have no idea which way the coaching team will go with Roughy, Trengove, Boyd and Schache.

It'll be who is left over at Footscray that will determine who is playing well out of that group and taking their chances for a place in the senior team. It's nice to have a bit of competition for spots amongst the big fellers.

[MrMahatma]

Can't say the thought of playing another talented big forward as a part time ruck really fills me with excitement. Rather he and Boyd stayed forward and Roughead and Trengove worried about ruck.

[bornadog]

Can't say the thought of playing another talented big forward as a part time ruck really fills me with excitement. Rather he and Boyd stayed forward and Roughead and Trengove worried about ruck.

I would rather Trengove stay at fullback. Roughead/Boyd can interchange in the ruck and Schache stay at home.

[Mofra]

I would rather Trengove stay at fullback. Roughead/Boyd can interchange in the ruck and Schache stay at home.
Yep that's my preference too.
Roughy playing as many minutes as his tank allows, Boyd plays more forward/ruck and Schache plays high forward unless Boyd rucks where Roughy goes to the bench and Schache plays closer to goals (as well as playing closer to goal when Boyd is on the bench).

Importantly, we can have at least one big guy in the forwardline for 100% of gametime as the get-out kick. The game we played Stringer as the lone tall forward against North was horrible, he kept going for over the top species instead of doing the team thing and bringing the ball to ground. Boyd generally does well in the "never get outmarked" rule set by the coaching staff, hopefully Schache develops the same mindset.

[bulldogtragic]

Yep that's my preference too.
Roughy playing as many minutes as his tank allows, Boyd plays more forward/ruck and Schache plays high forward unless Boyd rucks where Roughy goes to the bench and Schache plays closer to goals (as well as playing closer to goal when Boyd is on the bench).

Importantly, we can have at least one big guy in the forwardline for 100% of gametime as the get-out kick. The game we played Stringer as the lone tall forward against North was horrible, he kept going for over the top species instead of doing the team thing and bringing the ball to ground. Boyd generally does well in the "never get outmarked" rule set by the coaching staff, hopefully Schache develops the same mindset.

Playing four of them adds extra flexibility. Say Boyd was having a GF day, we wouldn't want him wasting his time rucking. Then Roughy/English have either Schache or Trengove. If either are having a slower or bad day in the KPP role, Bevo can insert them into the ruck. As you say, having one or two genuine tall forwards at any given time will a luxury we have never really had recently. Their flexibility and added rucking ability does bring up concerns about guys like Campbell, Roberts & Redders.

[bornadog]

Their flexibility and added rucking ability does bring up concerns about guys like Campbell, Roberts & Redders.

Great competition for a spot, which means these guys are going to have to work harder to get a spot.

[bulldogtragic]

Great competition for a spot, which means these guys are going to have to work harder to get a spot.

For sure. But in the weekly match committee meetings, these players are going to have to overcome the fact they're quite one dimensional. Nothing against these guys, but it says a lot that 30 minutes after the Schache trade happened Bevo called him, welcomed him no told him he is required to play multiple positions. So if that's the key thing for Bevo, I'm not sure how they become able to add a new dimension to their game.

[bulldogtragic]

Chris Grant was interviewed by afl.com.au for draft stuff, but a question came up on Josh. Turtle said he did a solid 5-6 week block of training (at Seymour in his off season break) before turning up for preseason 'hitting the ground running'. Further that he's hard worker and is in ripping condition and the club is 'really pleased'. Importantly, that he's happy at the club and enjoying the new environment.

A very promising start.

[LostDoggy]

Chris Grant was interviewed by afl.com.au for draft stuff, but a question came up on Josh. Turtle said he did a solid 5-6 week block of training (at Seymour in his off season break) before turning up for preseason 'hitting the ground running'. Further that he's hard worker and is in ripping condition and the club is 'really pleased'. Importantly, that he's happy at the club and enjoying the new environment.

A very promising start.

Without putting too much pressure on the kid, sometimes he reminds me of Turtle, the way he eads and moves with ball in hand. For a big man, he glides.

[Twodogs]

How much easier will it be for our mids to look up and see a target moving toward them instead of just standing there and then running behind the contest looking for the spill out the back and the easy goal?

[Remi Moses]

Chris Grant was interviewed by afl.com.au for draft stuff, but a question came up on Josh. Turtle said he did a solid 5-6 week block of training (at Seymour in his off season break) before turning up for preseason 'hitting the ground running'. Further that he's hard worker and is in ripping condition and the club is 'really pleased'. Importantly, that he's happy at the club and enjoying the new environment.

A very promising start.

Did well to concentrate on that interview Trag . Bit of lovin happening in the background

[bulldogtragic]

Did well to concentrate on that interview Trag . Bit of lovin happening in the background

I'm going back to watch it now...

Too right. It was like that god awful Meryl Bainbridge film clip from the 90's where neither take a breath for 4 minutes.

[Twodogs]

Without putting too much pressure on the kid, sometimes he reminds me of Turtle, the way he eads and moves with ball in hand. For a big man, he glides.


Steady on there champ. Chris Grant was as silk as they come, in fact they don't come much silkier. Some lunatic has been going around posting on WOOF that the Bont is going to be better than Kelvin Templeton as well. We don't want to collectively lose our heads.

[Axe Man]

Unusual to have the CEO commenting on players but I guess Ameet has more of a football background than many CEOs.

Don't expect 'seismic shift' from new Dog: CEO (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-02-08/dont-expect-seismic-shift-from-new-dog-ceo)

NEW Western Bulldogs CEO Ameet Bains says expectations on recruit Josh Schache need to realistic as the No.2 draft pick from 2015 looks to restart his career at Whitten Oval.

The Bulldogs traded for the former Lion in the dying seconds of last October's NAB AFL Trade Period, giving up picks 25 and 40 in November's draft.

The 20-year-old Victorian, who struggled to settle in his two seasons in Brisbane, has kicked 25 goals in 27 senior games.

As list manager at St Kilda, Bains saw first-hand the pressure key forward Paddy McCartin endured after being the first player selected in the 2014 draft.

"I think the expectations on some of these (young) guys is a bit unrealistic at this point in their career," Bains told 3AW on Wednesday evening.

"Josh is still a player that is still developing, and he's obviously got a lot of talent to be drafted where he was, so hopefully in this environment he can continue to be supported and grow into the player we want him to be.

"To expect that seismic change in year one at the Bulldogs is a stretch."

The Dogs are optimistic Schache can play in the same side as fellow key forwards Tom Boyd and Jack Redpath, with all three having the ability to play in the ruck.

Quizzed on how Boyd was faring after battling mental health issues last year, Bains said the 2016 premiership hero had made an impression on the club's recent camp in Queensland.

"Tom is going well, (and) up in Mooloolaba there were a couple of opportunities for match simulation and Tom was a strong part of that.

"He's setting himself for a big season this year."

After winning the premiership in just his second year as coach, Luke Beveridge found the going a lot tougher in the Dogs' flag defence, with a disappointing season ending with the team missing the finals.

Bains said Beveridge was in good spirits after a difficult 12 months that also saw the club trade premiership star Jake Stringer to Essendon and the 47-year-old coach require off-season surgery on a neck complaint.

"He's going well, Luke, he's a fantastic coach and fantastic person," he said.

"The coaching and playing group only came back last week from a camp up in Mooloolaba, which was great for setting the foundations for the season ahead."

[Bulldog Revolution]

Sensible article on Schache - it will take time but hopefully the boy really knuckles down and has the drive required

[bornadog]

Good luck tomorrow for your first game in RWB

[bulldogtragic]

May there be 200 more, with 300 goals.

[Twodogs]

I'll go for 535 goals, midway between KT's 494 and the Pieman's 575 totals. 230 games in red, white and blue.

[SonofScray]

Pleased for Josh. I think he can be a very good forward for us, and while his recent form in the twos hasn't been scintillating, it has been goal kicking form. Goals are so, so precious at the moment. If he can take his turn for the tough stuff when needed, and otherwise just get the footy and kick a goal more often than not, good things will happen for him and us.

[Twodogs]

He's going to be our Josh Jenkins and get out the back for the Joe the Goose.

[Mofra]

Chris Grant was interviewed by afl.com.au for draft stuff, but a question came up on Josh. Turtle said he did a solid 5-6 week block of training (at Seymour in his off season break) before turning up for preseason 'hitting the ground running'. Further that he's hard worker and is in ripping condition and the club is 'really pleased'. Importantly, that he's happy at the club and enjoying the new environment.

A very promising start.
On SEN last night they were talking about Schache and how different his body shape looks now to last season - "leaner, more like a footballer".

I had real doubts when we nabbed him but 9 goals in 3 weeks at VFL level means he's earned his spot. Good luck to him.

[LostDoggy]

The thing I liked about Schache's game last week was the ground he covered and seeing him get several inside 50 entrys. That's what we need from him tomorrow, hard leading, hard running, creating space for Dickson, Gowers, Lipinski etc, and really working their fullback. I'm excited to see what he can bring. Best of luck Josh.

[ReLoad]

Go you good thing. Good luck tonight, kick a bag!

[1eyedog]

Hope he gets a bag would do wonders for his confidence and our fortunes. Has the talent.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Chris Grant was interviewed by afl.com.au for draft stuff, but a question came up on Josh. Turtle said he did a solid 5-6 week block of training (at Seymour in his off season break) before turning up for preseason 'hitting the ground running'. Further that he's hard worker and is in ripping condition and the club is 'really pleased'. Importantly, that he's happy at the club and enjoying the new environment.

A very promising start.

Schache is very close to good Bulldogs people in Seymour, two of whom have close ties with our Club. Is in a good environment and could well end up a top recruit.

[josie]

Go on you beauty!! Give us all a Schache Attack and kick a half a dozen (goals that is). Soooo looking forward to seeing Boyd and Schache in F50. May not work perfectly but I think it will be our forward future.

[GVGjr]

Go on you beauty!! Give us all a Schache Attack and kick a half a dozen (goals that is). Soooo looking forward to seeing Boyd and Schache in F50. May not work perfectly but I think it will be our forward future.

If he kicks a bag of goals we should crank up the B52's Love Shack ;)

[Twodogs]

Go on you beauty!! Give us all a Schache Attack and kick a half a dozen (goals that is). Soooo looking forward to seeing Boyd and Schache in F50. May not work perfectly but I think it will be our forward future.


Half a dozen Collingwood arses would do me.


If he kicks a bag of goals we should crank up the B52's Love Shack ;)

No we shouldn't. I will find another song with the word shack in the title. Like "there's a track winding back to an old fashioned shack" or something.


Can't stand the *!*!*!*!ing B-52s.

[bulldogtragic]

First game back at the level. Friday night footy. First game for his new club. I just wanted to see some good signs, especially with poor forward entries he was going to get. Like Carey on the TV tonight said many times, there's good signs for Josh, and therefore us. I'm more than happy enough with the glimpses tonight.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Looked classy, plenty to work with

[Remi Moses]

Good start

[Remi Moses]

Brian Taylor and Mason Cox should get a room

[Rocket Science]

Watch him split time between ruck and full back next week.

[KT31]

Very happy with him, was the silver lining in what was otherwise a pretty $/?& night.

[Greystache]

Showed a bit and hopefully can build on that. Having said that he's a 20 year old key forward and only kicked 1 goal so I expect he'll be dropped and we'll start trying to turn him into a defender.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I'm sorry don't get the Shache love. Ok so off the back of being a beneficiary of a squibbed kick..he nails a set shot from 25 meyres out.. we are setting the bar low
He missed multiple tackles and was pivotal in allowing the ball to sling shot out of our forward 50. Not alone..in that regard.. but jeez.. we arw grasping at straws of we think tonight was anything above what he previously served up at Brisbane.
Shache is miles off being a competent AFL footballer.

[bulldogtragic]

Showed a bit and hopefully can build on that. Having said that he's a 20 year old key forward and only kicked 1 goal so I expect he'll be dropped and we'll start trying to turn him into a defender.

That’s not funny or sarcastic. It’s accurate...

[Greystache]

I'm sorry don't get the Shache love. Ok so off the back of being a beneficiary of a squibbed kick..he nails a set shot from 25 meyres out.. we are setting the bar low
He missed multiple tackles and was pivotal in allowing the ball to sling shot out of our forward 50. Not alone..in that regard.. but jeez.. we arw grasping at straws of we think tonight was anything above what he previously served up at Brisbane.
Shache is miles off being a competent AFL footballer.

He served up 25 goals in 27 games as an 18 and 19 year old key forward at Brisbane. I would call that exceptional. If he can match that this season I'd say he's tracking very nicely.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

He served up 25 goals in 27 games as an 18 and 19 year old key forward at Brisbane. I would call that exceptional. If he can match that this season I'd say he's tracking very nicely.

Really? We're going to hold that as the gold standard of a good start.
Unfortunately, living in Brisbane I had the misfortune of watching almost all of those games...
I can't recall one that indicated Shache was a quality modern day footballer.
I don't think I've ever hoped to be proven more wrong in my life.
He's a lead and mark player in an era where that has never been less a priority skillset.

[Sedat]

Josh Kennedy would have had similarly uninspiring numbers when West Coke snapped him up as part of the Judd trade. Hipwood virtually every week gets sub 10 possessions. Josh should play the rest of the season up forward. Furthermore, he should watch tapes of Riewoldt religiously and become our gut-running high forward.

[Greystache]

Really? We're going to hold that as the gold standard of a good start.
Unfortunately, living in Brisbane I had the misfortune of watching almost all of those games...
I can't recall one that indicated Shache was a quality modern day footballer.
I don't think I've ever hoped to be proven more wrong in my life.
He's a lead and mark player in an era where that has never been less a priority skillset.

A goal a game for an 18/19 year old key forward is excellent. Very few player in the league have matched that. Kennedy was nowhere near it, neither were Ben Brown, or Jarryd Roughead. In fact he's tracking identical to Jack Riewoldt.

[angelopetraglia]

From what I saw tonight. He has a beautiful kicking action. He has composure with the ball in hand. He makes the right decisions. Massive way to go in intensity, being strong at the contest and consistently presenting. Has a huge chance of making it IMHO.

[GVGjr]

We are probably at the point where we have to give him 4 or 5 games to prove his worth. Perhaps some stints in the ruck as well to utilise his running prowess.

[Twodogs]

Thought Josh did some good things in the first quarter, faded a bit in the second, like a good forward does he was standing in front of his opponent when Richards mis kick went into the forward line so he benefited from that and I can't remember the last time a bulldog forward who isn't Tory Dickson was doing that. There were also a couple of clever handballs in the third. In the last I can't recall him at all but he had plenty of mare mates there.

It was a promising debut all in all. He's not going to be John Coleman but we don't need him to be. We just don't need him to be Andrew MacDougall either.

[Bulldog4life]

Hopefully he will show more intensity as he matures.

[Remi Moses]

I’m staggered someone could be critical of a homesick forward playing in the worst side in the comp the last few years.
Totally insane

[Go_Dogs]

I haven't seen a lot of him, his field kicking is much better than I'd hoped.

I agree with GVG, let's give him some continuity and see how he goes.

[1eyedog]

Really? We're going to hold that as the gold standard of a good start.
Unfortunately, living in Brisbane I had the misfortune of watching almost all of those games...
I can't recall one that indicated Shache was a quality modern day footballer.
I don't think I've ever hoped to be proven more wrong in my life.
He's a lead and mark player in an era where that has never been less a priority skillset.

You're watching the wrong Josh Schache. He's very good on the ground and has good speed I've seen quite a few opportunistic goals and neat, one touch passages of play. He has far more ceiling than a lead, kick, goal player.

[Twodogs]

You're watching the wrong Josh Schache. He's very good on the ground and has good speed I've seen quite a few opportunistic goals and neat, one touch passages of play. He has far more ceiling than a lead, kick, goal player.

The spot up kick to Gowers (actually I don't think it was Gowers) in the first quarter from Schache was exquisite for a 200cm+ player. All we have to get through to him is to do that sort of thing more than once a match. It's good that he converted that free kick too. Some of our blokes have trouble with the distance from where he was.

[westdog54]

Thought Josh did some good things in the first quarter, faded a bit in the second, like a good forward does he was standing in front of his opponent when Richards mis kick went into the forward line so he benefited from that and I can't remember the last time a bulldog forward who isn't Tory Dickson was doing that. There were also a couple of clever handballs in the third. In the last I can't recall him at all but he had plenty of mare mates there.

It was a promising debut all in all. He's not going to be John Coleman but we don't need him to be. We just don't need him to be Andrew MacDougall either.

The irony of marking that miskick is that he actually got himself into a good space to be passed the ball. Had Matt Suckling had the ball in hand instead of Richards it would have ended in the same result, but with a precision pass instead of a miskick.

As others have rightly pointed out, his field kicking was excellent the few times he had the ball. It almost reminded me of the way Lance Franklin was using the ball up-field during the 2016 finals, he barely missed a target.

If he can continue to build his work rate he will be a more than productive forward.

For what its worth, I'm not convinced Richards' kick was a shank btw.

[Twodogs]

The irony of marking that miskick is that he actually got himself into a good space to be passed the ball. Had Matt Suckling had the ball in hand instead of Richards it would have ended in the same result, but with a precision pass instead of a miskick.

As others have rightly pointed out, his field kicking was excellent the few times he had the ball. It almost reminded me of the way Lance Franklin was using the ball up-field during the 2016 finals, he barely missed a target.

If he can continue to build his work rate he will be a more than productive forward.

For what its worth, I'm not convinced Richards' kick was a shank btw.


You might be right. I've kept the first half (never want to see the second half again) so I can check.

[Ozza]

From what I saw tonight. He has a beautiful kicking action. He has composure with the ball in hand. He makes the right decisions. Massive way to go in intensity, being strong at the contest and consistently presenting. Has a huge chance of making it IMHO.

I would agree that he appears to lack intensity and purpose.
But often it is lack of confidence that manifests itself as appearing to lack intensity. I think once Schache feels at home in the side, his growing confidence will turn that around.

[Twodogs]

I would agree that he appears to lack intensity and purpose.
But often it is lack of confidence that manifests itself as appearing to lack intensity. I think once Schache feels at home in the side, his growing confidence will turn that around.


That's the plan. It's gotta work eventually. It did with Peter Foster in 1983.


I think Josh will be a good player, a handy Daniel Bradshaw type. Not the main man, hopefully that will be Tom Boyd if we don't break him first.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

In another dull day, Schache is showing signs. Had a good third qtr, competed better and unlucky not to kick 1-2 goals. He’s an excellent kick, thought his movements and leading was much better in that quarter but we burned him a few times. Particularly Williams, who blazed away.

Hopefully he can have a good second half of the year

[ledge]

Schache is a gun, he can't do anything if you don't look for him.
Its time Bevo stopped pissing around with him and Boyd and start using them as forwards and bring in a ruckman!

[Mantis]

Schache is a gun, he can't do anything if you don't look for him.
Its time Bevo stopped pissing around with him and Boyd and start using them as forwards and bring in a ruckman!

A gun? Really?

He’s absolutely miles away from being a component AFL player.

[SlimPickens]

A gun? Really?

He’s absolutely miles away from being a component AFL player.

Think you mean he has plenty of development to go. Thought he moved well today and often found himself with room to lead in to. Much better than his first game for the club and will be better once his team mates look for him.

[Mantis]

Think you mean he has plenty of development to go. Thought he moved well today and often found himself with room to lead in to. Much better than his first game for the club and will be better at nice his team mates look for him.

No doubt, but seriously needs to learn to play his part defensively... he is just a witches hat at present.

[Bulldog4life]

A gun? Really?

He’s absolutely miles away from being a component AFL player.

Agree 100%

[SlimPickens]

No doubt, but seriously needs to learn to play his part defensively... he is just a witches hat at present.

Yes, but I thought that was once again better this week than last.

[ledge]

Only because we put it nowhere near him !
He is a very accurate kick and the way the game is umpired today if we used him properly he would kick a lot of goals.
Put 2 talls in our forward line get them to lead in opposite directions and have a crumber underneath, also
Play a proper ruckman would be a good start.
At the moment even if we have one tall everyone goes to the same spot !

[SonofScray]

Got some way to go but the tools are there and I trust him with the footy to do his job. We need to get him more easy ball and cash in. Hopefully he gets his tail up and starts winning plenty of the footy himself leading up to it, but for now get out the back and get it in in his hands.

[josie]

I like what he has offered so far and am hoping he becomes more defensive with encouragement from coaches. I think he is a smart player too. Agree Boyd should play more in forward 50 at same time.

[bulldogtragic]

Leaving the finer details aside, and extra we got in the actual trade, these are the season averages for Schache (former pick 2) vs Stringer (former pick 5):

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?playerStatus1=A&tid1=8&playerStatus2=A&tid2=6&type=A&pid1=4164&pid2=3799&fid1=S&fid2=S

There's nothing of significance really to split their 2018 season averages, except maybe love handles, and the ceiling on Schache is higher from where he is now (being 3 years younger, and 70 games less experience). This alone puts the specific Schache-Stringer list movement as at least neutral, if not positive our way, plus the help to get Richards.

[Go_Dogs]

Not sure how you can say there isn't much separating their 2018 stats. Jake has clearly had a more impactful year than Josh, although he hasn't reached the heights he did with us during the 2015/16 seasons.

That being said, Sausages Schache has really found his feet throughout the second half of the season and has significant upside. I don't think we have any concerns about the trade, but both us and Essendon would be happy with the returns to date (of those respective trades).

[bulldogtragic]

Not sure how you can say there isn't much separating their 2018 stats. Jake has clearly had a more impactful year than Josh, although he hasn't reached the heights he did with us during the 2015/16 seasons.

That being said, Sausages Schache has really found his feet throughout the second half of the season and has significant upside. I don't think we have any concerns about the trade, but both us and Essendon would be happy with the returns to date (of those respective trades).

No doubt both clubs are happy. But what in their statistical averages is 'significantly' different? They seem to virtually the same to me, less some midfield numbers of course.

[Twodogs]

Not sure how you can say there isn't much separating their 2018 stats. Jake has clearly had a more impactful year than Josh, although he hasn't reached the heights he did with us during the 2015/16 seasons.

That being said, Sausages Schache has really found his feet throughout the second half of the season and has significant upside. I don't think we have any concerns about the trade, but both us and Essendon would be happy with the returns to date (of those respective trades).


Yep, you trade to improve your team, not to win the trade. And that seems to be what both clubs have done.

[ratsmac]

No doubt both clubs are happy. But what in their statistical averages is 'significantly' different? They seem to virtually the same to me, less some midfield numbers of course.

Without actually checking stats (lazy right now) Stringer's goal assist numbers would be higher I would assume. Other than that, yeah there doesn't seem that much seperating them.

[AndrewP6]

Without actually checking stats (lazy right now) Stringer's goal assist numbers would be higher I would assume. Other than that, yeah there doesn't seem that much seperating them.

0.9 Stringer, 0.3 Schache

[bulldogtragic]

Without actually checking stats (lazy right now) Stringer's goal assist numbers would be higher I would assume. Other than that, yeah there doesn't seem that much seperating them.

Yep, a difference but not a huge one. Looking at the returns for 2018 on averages, I'm happy that what we've lost/forced out from 2017 has been replaced this year by what we've brought in. Not talking about the trade, but in pure list management, that is, what we cut vs what brought in, we've covered the 190cm+ forward swap nicely. That we did it with a younger player, for less salary cap and draft pick positive, is just a bonus to the situation.

[mjp]

Schache has been great. So (to be truthful) have most of the recruits - Crozier and Trengove had rocky starts but have been impressive in the 2nd half of the year...Lipinski, Richards, Fergus, Naughton, Lynch...they have all been great.

Yet....

[Mofra]

^ You missed Gowers ;)


Yet....
Yet... which senior players have improved?

Macrae and McLean are in career best form, but Bont's carrying an injury, and the others have been injured (Wood, Libba) played out of position (early Wood, JJ) or been hit or miss (Hunter).

Hunter is the interesting one. Whenever he looks to dispose of the ball forward he looks a weapon, whenever his first instinct is to backtrack (which has happened a lot this year) he's looked terrible.

We have played good football in patches but not 4 quarters, although the Geelong game was close. Some of the statistical breakdowns are very telling - 20+ games more experience plus an adequate ruck division and we're easily a top 8 side.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I just love comparing the mood of this forum (and the other one) after a win vs a loss. How outlooks can change. I'm guilty too. We still have our problems, but like the old footy cliche, things are never as good or as bad as they seem.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

^ You missed Gowers ;)


Yet... which senior players have improved?

Macrae and McLean are in career best form, but Bont's carrying an injury, and the others have been injured (Wood, Libba) played out of position (early Wood, JJ) or been hit or miss (Hunter).

Hunter is the interesting one. Whenever he looks to dispose of the ball forward he looks a weapon, whenever his first instinct is to backtrack (which has happened a lot this year) he's looked terrible.

We have played good football in patches but not 4 quarters, although the Geelong game was close. Some of the statistical breakdowns are very telling - 20+ games more experience plus an adequate ruck division and we're easily a top 8 side.

There is certainly something wrong with the Bont. I was 4 rows from the ground behind the goals in the 1st quarter and the ball landed just above the goal square. Bont was clearly the closest to the ball, yet for some reason he just did not attack it. It looked like a half-arsed effort. The saints player did attack it and it resulted in a goal. Believe me i was questioning everything at that point. It did not look great.....yet 2 quarters later he's unstoppable with 4 goals.....

[The bulldog tragician]

Everyone seems to “know” Bont has a hip complaint. Is there actual foundation for this?

[Go_Dogs]

Everyone seems to “know” Bont has a hip complaint. Is there actual foundation for this?

I don't believe so. It's a conclusion drawn by previous complaints and his running gait (at least from my perspective).

[LostDoggy]

Schache has been great. So (to be truthful) have most of the recruits - Crozier and Trengove had rocky starts but have been impressive in the 2nd half of the year...Lipinski, Richards, Fergus, Naughton, Lynch...they have all been great.

Yet....

Couldn't agree more. I had major concerns with Crazier earlier but he is really reliable now. Schache is coming along nicely.

[Eastdog]

There is certainly something wrong with the Bont. I was 4 rows from the ground behind the goals in the 1st quarter and the ball landed just above the goal square. Bont was clearly the closest to the ball, yet for some reason he just did not attack it. It looked like a half-arsed effort. The saints player did attack it and it resulted in a goal. Believe me i was questioning everything at that point. It did not look great.....yet 2 quarters later he's unstoppable with 4 goals.....

Bont has still been very important this year in games but at other times been down on form. His comtempaties have gone past him this year. Hopefully in 2019 the true Bont will be back.

[bornadog]

Couldn't agree more. I had major concerns with Crazier earlier but he is really reliable now. Schache is coming along nicely.

He is not that crazy :D

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Everyone seems to “know” Bont has a hip complaint. Is there actual foundation for this?

I wasn’t suggesting a hip problem. I was just disappointed in the effort. He might have been buggered at that point. Who knows

[Mofra]

Everyone seems to “know” Bont has a hip complaint. Is there actual foundation for this?
His hip operation, interrupted pre-season and obvious mobility issues?

[SonofScray]

His hip operation, interrupted pre-season and obvious mobility issues? There has been a few games this year where when tackled, he's taken longer to get up, been grimacing and grabbing at or stretching out his hip. Has looked hobbled more often than not.

The four goals was relief as much as joy for me. Perhaps things are settling down a bit on that front. We all want to see him at 100% because it is as good as anyone will ever get IMO. Even going at 75% he has been very important.

[bulldogtragic]

Stringer getting the arse landed us Schache, and helped a little towards Ed Richards. But let's just say it was Stringer vs Schache. If you had to pick one tonight, both top 5 picks who left for unders for a couple of mid range picks.

Schache: 13 disposals (85%), 4 marks, 2 tackles, 3.0, 6 score involvements, 1 GA (& smother to Dale goal in the square) (& rucked too). 1 free for, 0 against. Played 95 minutes.

Stringer: 7 disposals (43%), 1 mark, 3 tackles, 0.1, 2 score involvements, 0 GA. 1 free for, 3 against. Played 84 minutes.

If you had to pick one tonight to play for us, which one....

[bornadog]

Stringer getting the arse landed us Schache, and helped a little towards Ed Richards. But let's just say it was Stringer vs Schache. If you had to pick one tonight, both top 5 picks who left for unders for a couple of mid range picks.

Schache: 13 disposals (85%), 4 marks, 2 tackles, 3.0, 6 score involvements, 1 GA (& smother to Dale goal in the square) (& rucked too). 1 free for, 0 against. Played 95 minutes.

Stringer: 7 disposals (43%), 1 mark, 3 tackles, 0.1, 2 score involvements, 0 GA. 1 free for, 3 against. Played 84 minutes.

If you had to pick one tonight to play for us, which one....

Schache every time

[macca]

Stringer getting the arse landed us Schache, and helped a little towards Ed Richards. But let's just say it was Stringer vs Schache. If you had to pick one tonight, both top 5 picks who left for unders for a couple of mid range picks.

Schache: 13 disposals (85%), 4 marks, 2 tackles, 3.0, 6 score involvements, 1 GA (& smother to Dale goal in the square) (& rucked too). 1 free for, 0 against. Played 95 minutes.

Stringer: 7 disposals (43%), 1 mark, 3 tackles, 0.1, 2 score involvements, 0 GA. 1 free for, 3 against. Played 84 minutes.

If you had to pick one tonight to play for us, which one....

RhetoricAl question
Stringer is a downhill skier

I am looking forward to the day when schache turns on beast mode and gets agressive in smashing packs and monstering defenders
Hoping it’s 1 preseason away.

[jeemak]

I'd take Stringer because in a good team he kicks a couple of goals a game. The guy's an all Australian, his talent profile is better than anyone in the league when it comes to his position.

I don't understand why people are saying Schache is finally coming into his own. He's four years in as a key forward. They take time and now that Tom Boyd is retired Josh is probably the harshest judged player in the league.

[SonofScray]

Josh worked hard all night, fluffed his best bit of work that was rewarded with a decent delivery, but stayed in the contest. He should have drawn another 4 free kicks and subsequent shots on goal but the umpires were not keen on pitting the boot into Essendon too.

[westdog54]

Stringer getting the arse landed us Schache, and helped a little towards Ed Richards. But let's just say it was Stringer vs Schache. If you had to pick one tonight, both top 5 picks who left for unders for a couple of mid range picks.

Schache: 13 disposals (85%), 4 marks, 2 tackles, 3.0, 6 score involvements, 1 GA (& smother to Dale goal in the square) (& rucked too). 1 free for, 0 against. Played 95 minutes.

Stringer: 7 disposals (43%), 1 mark, 3 tackles, 0.1, 2 score involvements, 0 GA. 1 free for, 3 against. Played 84 minutes.

If you had to pick one tonight to play for us, which one....

You and I are going to talk about it repeatedly, but that kick to McLean...

[bulldogtragic]

You and I are going to talk about it repeatedly, but that kick to McLean...

... Yep. 200cm players aren't meant to do those things. A thing of beauty.

[anfo27]

Just happy Josh is showing us something to get excited about. I honestly thought when he was dropped that he'd never amount to much. He was a good finisher but if you couldn't get him the ball in space he was useless & thought that was just Josh & he'd never find that competitiveness.
When Josh returned against the pies for me he was a different player. We lost that game but i went home excited that we might have found a player here. Josh has proven me wrong week in & week out since & i couldn't be happier. It might take a couple of years for Josh to be the player all woofers are hoping for. At least for me i can see it now so i'm happy to be patient with him.
Keep it up young fella!

[bulldogtragic]

I'd take Stringer because in a good team he kicks a couple of goals a game. The guy's an all Australian, his talent profile is better than anyone in the league when it comes to his position.

I don't understand why people are saying Schache is finally coming into his own. He's four years in as a key forward. They take time and now that Tom Boyd is retired Josh is probably the harshest judged player in the league.

I think (with hood form and his more consistent aggression) he's starting to turn commentators around, which should hopefully turn positive a mass of viewers who base their opinions solely on commentators. I can't adequately express how happy I am for the kid.

[ledge]

Just happy Josh is showing us something to get excited about. I honestly thought when he was dropped that he'd never amount to much. He was a good finisher but if you couldn't get him the ball in space he was useless & thought that was just Josh & he'd never find that competitiveness.
When Josh returned against the pies for me he was a different player. We lost that game but i went home excited that we might have found a player here. Josh has proven me wrong week in & week out since & i couldn't be happier. It might take a couple of years for Josh to be the player all woofers are hoping for. At least for me i can see it now so i'm happy to be patient with him.
Keep it up young fella!

Personally it’s frightening what Naughton could be after another preseason, same for Bailey Smith, if Josh goes up one more Level this forward line we have detested for years might make us all look silly.

[Bulldog4life]

Josh and Naughty could turn into a lethal combination in the years ahead. I love Josh's hard at it approach he has developed as the year has gone on. He also was behind a number of goals we scored simply by competing and bringing the ball to ground. Great to see his progress.

[GVGjr]

Schache just needs to hold some more overhead marks and he will be a big time player for us.
Is someone who's around 200cm tall supposed to be able to kick to other players like he can?

[bornadog]

Schache just needs to hold some more overhead marks and he will be a big time player for us.
Is someone who's around 200cm tall supposed to be able to kick to other players like he can?

He got his hands to about 5 marks but couldn't hold them. If he gets that part right he will kick lots of goals each week.

[westdog54]

Schache just needs to hold some more overhead marks and he will be a big time player for us.
Is someone who's around 200cm tall supposed to be able to kick to other players like he can?

In a word, no.

[Twodogs]

Schache just needs to hold some more overhead marks and he will be a big time player for us.
Is someone who's around 200cm tall supposed to be able to kick to other players like he can?

How good was the pressure he applied to get a hand to the ball in the goal square that led up to the Bailey Dale goal? I loved that Josh was so excited to see one of his teammates kick a goal too. There was no 'me, me, me, how good am I?' type crap, just a teammate happy to see one of his teammates kick a goal.

Josh gets that footy is a team game and sometimes you have to throttle your own ambition in order for the team to have success.

[Ghost Dog]

Really pleasing to see our forwards come storming out of the 50 to tackle and harass.
Only seen the highlights but it seems our forwards, Josh, Dickson and others had a good defensive game. A great confidence booster.
Bevo noted the physicality of our boys has improved and Josh has really come leaps and bounds in that aspect this year.

[Happy Days]

In a word, no.

English has ridiculous skills for a man of his size too. We've really lucked out with these two; there's simply no way that guys that big who can kick the way that they do don't have long, successful careers.

[bulldogtragic]

I think other clubs are now starting to put time into Josh as well, Woosha sending Hooker to try to out muscle him. Josh averages more goals a game than Naughton this year, and converts at 75% at goal as opposed to just over 50% for Naughton. This isn't a slight at Naughton in the slightest. But Josh can do serious damage on the scoreboard with less of the ball, and with less of Naughton's freakish marking. Since coming back Josh has kicked 13.2 (80%+) in 7 games (one he was concussed). Other teams have, and will start to put more time into Josh. You just can't let him have the ball within range with his accuracy. But you also can't let Naughton off the leash either. And these two are only at the beginning of understanding each other, learning more forward craft and the mids learning their leading patterns.

[Happy Days]

I think other clubs are now starting to put time into Josh as well, Woosha sending Hooker to try to out muscle him. Josh averages more goals a game than Naughton this year, and converts at 75% at goal as opposed to just over 50% for Naughton. This isn't a slight at Naughton in the slightest. But Josh can do serious damage on the scoreboard with less of the ball, and with less of Naughton's freakish marking. Since coming back Josh has kicked 13.2 (80%+) in 7 games (one he was concussed). Other teams have, and will start to put more time into Josh. You just can't let him have the ball within range with his accuracy. But you also can't let Naughton off the leash either. And these two are only at the beginning of understanding each other, learning more forward craft and the mids learning their leading patterns.

I think there is a perception about Josh that he's a little bit soft, which to be brutally honest might not have been too far from the mark even as recently as round 4 of this year.

To his immense credit he responded excellently to his banishment, and added a clear hardened edge to his game, something that is tremendously difficult to do when it doesn't come naturally. But the reality is far easier to shake than the perception, and he can probably expect this treatment for a fair while.

[1eyedog]

Josh is putting his body on the line for his team mates every week now. It's a massive step forward in his development.

[jazzadogs]

1041

[bornadog]

Schache is really a dilemma.

Where do you play him?. I really thought he would be a good Fwd/ruck, but after last night he just struggled to impact the game at all. He wasn't sighted for the first two quarters at all, and when he had chances to kick goals when running into an open forward line, he fluffed it?

We have even tried to make him a backman at VFL level, and rarely at AFL level?

He is still only 24 (almost 25), and should be starting to mature and reach his peak as a tall player.

Schache is out of contract at end of year. Does he get an extension?

[Happy Days]

Lets maybe give up?

[bornadog]

Lets maybe give up?

It's getting that way.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

He was very poor last night. Having said that, I would like to see him stay in the team until Bruce is ready to come back in.
I just think we need to really see if he has the mental capacity to rebound from that performance, especially as we have a decision to make regarding whether or not we persevere with him beyond 2022.

[Bulldog4life]

Schache is really a dilemma.

Where do you play him?. I really thought he would be a good Fwd/ruck, but after last night he just struggled to impact the game at all. He wasn't sighted for the first two quarters at all, and when he had chances to kick goals when running into an open forward line, he fluffed it?

We have even tried to make him a backman at VFL level, and rarely at AFL level?

He is still only 24 (almost 25), and should be starting to mature and reach his peak as a tall player.

Schache is out of contract at end of year. Does he get an extension?

I year for me. Talls take time. Can be frustrating but worth another year. Can play forward and back.

[GVGjr]

He was very poor last night. Having said that, I would like to see him stay in the team until Bruce is ready to come back in.
I just think we need to really see if he has the mental capacity to rebound from that performance, especially as we have a decision to make regarding whether or not we persevere with him beyond 2022.

Same for me, he should have some credits in the bank but he's typically been the fall guy when we have put in a shocker.

[bornadog]

Same for me, he should have some credits in the bank but he's typically been the fall guy when we have put in a shocker.

He is not the fall guy, he just fails to impact a game.

It wasn't his fault we lost last night, he just didn't contribute

[Mantis]

Has he ever played well against Brisbane?

He cops it from the crowd and opposing players and doesn’t seem the type who would thrive when he’s the centre of attention and would rather just play a role in the background.

Such a frustrating player because he has all the traits except the want to always compete.

[G-Mo77]

Schache is really a dilemma.

Where do you play him?. I really thought he would be a good Fwd/ruck, but after last night he just struggled to impact the game at all. He wasn't sighted for the first two quarters at all, and when he had chances to kick goals when running into an open forward line, he fluffed it?

We have even tried to make him a backman at VFL level, and rarely at AFL level?

He is still only 24 (almost 25), and should be starting to mature and reach his peak as a tall player.

Schache is out of contract at end of year. Does he get an extension?

It's a tough one. I always think of Lindsay Gaze's quote about players like this:

“If you are short, you have two years to prove you are a player. If you are tall, you have 10 years to prove that you aren’t a player.”

I don't think he has the attributes to be a Fwd/Ruck, like I said in the game thread, it's putting a square peg in a round hole. We have trialled him as a defender but have scrapped that pretty quickly when he was promoted. If we're going to do it, it's got to be all or nothing. Yo-yoing him to and from the team in different positions isn't going to help.

If I was to keep him on the list (That's a big IF) I'd be moulding him as a defender only and try to reinvent him in some way. Not just a couple of weeks and give up situation but a long term defender, nothing else. If he's playing VFL he's a defender only, if he is promoted he's a defender only. Let him learn the craft of being a backman and see if we can utilise him.

[The bulldog tragician]

I think I jumped off the bandwagon last night. Before then I always argued that not everyone needs to be super aggressive -there’s a place for the guy with the adroit skills, someone who’s a lead, mark, convert player. But .. he dropped marks. He fluffed easy chances. He was diabolical in the ruck where to be fair he shouldn’t play. And if several years after leaving Bris that’s still affecting him - well?!? In his mid 20s, even with the talls-take-longer thing … he just has to do more. I’ve so badly wanted him to succeed, and feel he’s often been the scapegoat and poorly treated …. But … for how long do we kid ourselves that the lack of confidence/intensity won’t continue, they’re intrinsic to him and we have to accept the reality.

[Danjul]

I think I jumped off the bandwagon last night. Before then I always argued that not everyone needs to be super aggressive -there’s a place for the guy with the adroit skills, someone who’s a lead, mark, convert player. But .. he dropped marks. He fluffed easy chances. He was diabolical in the ruck where to be fair he shouldn’t play. And if several years after leaving Bris that’s still affecting him - well?!? In his mid 20s, even with the talls-take-longer thing … he just has to do more. I’ve so badly wanted him to succeed, and feel he’s often been the scapegoat and poorly treated …. But … for how long do we kid ourselves that the lack of confidence/intensity won’t continue, they’re intrinsic to him and we have to accept the reality.
Doesn’t this sum up the problem?

We don’t leave him in a position where he plays well. He was in the ruck too much. Although to be honest I think people should look at the results when he rucked. We had 11 clearances To 4. Didn’t give Brisbane much advantage, so I think this statement is extreme.

When he was in the forward line he was the target only 3 times (Naughton 15). Game plan anyone?

[SonofScray]

Schache hasn’t done much wrong since coming in IMO. He was two bung kicks away from another par performance I thought.

[GVGjr]

Schache hasn’t done much wrong since coming in IMO. He was two bung kicks away from another par performance I thought.

Josh doesn't get judged like other players and in a late of cases thats his problem to resolve.
For example Weightman hasn't done much in the last 2 weeks but won't be under much scrutiny to hold his spot.
It probably comes down to Sweet or Schache with English returning. Do we need a 2nd ruckman on a smaller oval?

[Danjul]

Josh doesn't get judged like other players and in a late of cases thats his problem to resolve.
For example Weightman hasn't done much in the last 2 weeks but won't be under much scrutiny to hold his spot.
It probably comes down to Sweet or Schache with English returning. Do we need a 2nd ruckman on a smaller oval?
Definitely. Ruck clearances quickly result in goals.

We must protect the middle because poor delivery into our forwards results in opposition goals.

[Axe Man]

It probably comes down to Sweet or Schache with English returning.

That's a real Sophie's Choice for Danjul. :D

[Danjul]

That's a real Sophie's Choice for Danjul. :D
No, I think Sweet is needed. Is English 100%?

[MrMahatma]

He’s inconsistent, isn’t a match winner and also isn’t a match loser.

He’s very harshly judged and I’d be sticking with him for a fair while yet.

[Bulldog4life]

Unfortunately Schache's one wood which is kicking for goal deserted him against Brisbane. Kick those 2 and we probably wouldn't be suggesting he gets dropped.

[kruder]

I reckon his hands are one of his biggest issues, how many times do we see him get his hands first to the ball but as soon as there is any contact he struggles to hold it. Logan McDonald has been seeing a hand therapist apparently If I was Josh I would be trying anything to get that ball to stick.

There just hasn't been any development from Josh since he first arrived at the club that's my biggest concern. If you look at Marra's hands over the the few weeks that ball is starting to stick, you can really can see where he is going with it all.

I don't think playing him in the ruck is giving him his best chance to make it, but I expect a lot more from Josh from this stage of his career. I loved his game again Port in the finals last year, he came up at the footy and demanded it, but unfortunately he has taken a few steps back since then. Bruce has been out all year, this was the year that Josh had the opportunity to cement himself at AFL level.

Tod Marshall has taken the next step this year for Port(23 years old Dixon out) he is probably the best version of what Josh can become but does he really want it enough?

[Danjul]

I reckon his hands are one of his biggest issues, how many times do we see him get his hands first to the ball but as soon as there is any contact he struggles to hold it. Logan McDonald has been seeing a hand therapist apparently If I was Josh I would be trying anything to get that ball to stick.

There just hasn't been any development from Josh since he first arrived at the club that's my biggest concern. If you look at Marra's hands over the the few weeks that ball is starting to stick, you can really can see where he is going with it all.

I don't think playing him in the ruck is giving him his best chance to make it, but I expect a lot more from Josh from this stage of his career. I loved his game again Port in the finals last year, he came up at the footy and demanded it, but unfortunately he has taken a few steps back since then. Bruce has been out all year, this was the year that Josh had the opportunity to cement himself at AFL level.

Tod Marshall has taken the next step this year for Port(23 years old Dixon out) he is probably the best version of what Josh can become but does he really want it enough?

Schache was one of our best against hawthorn, I have seen Bruce play worse. With more marks and disposals than Naughton, and a couple of goals as well as spending time in the ruck, he was close to a reasonable player. (Personally I thought he was excellent but I realise all measures of performance are elastic at the dogs).

Also, he has not been given time, he has spent most of the year in the vfl filling in gaps in a weak team.

After a good game against Adelaide (better stats than Naughton) he was dropped. Now after a poor game his name is the first raised to be dropped again. His poor game was almost identical to Weightman’s, both handicapped on the forward line by appalling delivery. I will admit, however, we simply cannot afford to give him more than two games in a row.

[Mofra]

He’s inconsistent, isn’t a match winner and also isn’t a match loser.

He’s very harshly judged and I’d be sticking with him for a fair while yet.
In an ideal world, we have Schache on our list as depth who can plug and play a role but he's not a week in, week out performer so we'd have better options in the first instance.

[Happy Days]

Josh doesn't get judged like other players and in a late of cases thats his problem to resolve.
For example Weightman hasn't done much in the last 2 weeks but won't be under much scrutiny to hold his spot.
It probably comes down to Sweet or Schache with English returning. Do we need a 2nd ruckman on a smaller oval?

I’ve thought about this post for a minute and it just doesn’t sit with me well.

The reason we are harsh on Schache and not those other guys is because those other guys have actually shown something, whereas, for whatever reason, Schache is still looked at as a project.

Weightman shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as him. Cody’s won games, plural, and some big games (Port last year) for us. He clearly had talent, heart, and something to work with.

Schache has been in the AFL since 2016. One pick below Weitering, the second best key defender in the AFL with a huge gap before the third. Same draft as Charlie Curnow. Who was declared legally dead in 2020 and is now gonna win a Coleman.

What has Schache ever actually done? What injuries has he had to make us be patient? He’s just a mediocre player who will never ever be any better than that. This is the exact guy you cut bait on.

[GVGjr]

I’ve thought about this post for a minute and it just doesn’t sit with me well.

The reason we are harsh on Schache and not those other guys is because those other guys have actually shown something, whereas, for whatever reason, Schache is still looked at as a project.

Weightman shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as him. Cody’s won games, plural, and some big games (Port last year) for us. He clearly had talent, heart, and something to work with.

Schache has been in the AFL since 2016. One pick below Weitering, the second best key defender in the AFL with a huge gap before the third. Same draft as Charlie Curnow. Who was declared legally dead in 2020 and is now gonna win a Coleman.

What has Schache ever actually done? What injuries has he had to make us be patient? He’s just a mediocre player who will never ever be any better than that. This is the exact guy you cut bait on.

I think he needs an extended run rather than being dismissed after one poor game. Josh doesn't get the luxury of building any credits. He's a frustrating player but until Bruce is ready I'd be sticking with him. I'm okay with him being a role player and perhaps the shipped has sailed on him meeting his talent level.

[MrMahatma]

He’s never been allowed to settle in a role. He should be playing either key fwd or key defence and stick with that.

Wing, ruck, defence, forward… he gets chucked literally all over the place and expected to perform? Fact is few players perform well under those circumstances, and while I’m a supporter of his, I’m certainly willing to say he’s not going to be in our top 10 players ever. That doesn’t mean he can’t still be a valuable contributor if given the opportunity to settle.

[merantau]

Like many, I am conflicted about Josh. Why? Because I have seen what he can do - and the obverse.

I still believe we should play him for the rest of the year. Give him a decent run at it to prove he can or can't play. Then we'll be able to make a decision on surer ground.

He has been in and out and has covered more ground than Ludwig Leichhardt. Let's hope that he doesn't come to the same end as the peripatetic German.

[Bulldog Joe]

The problem with Schache I see as a confidence issue.

He clearly has ability but not the innate confidence of a player like Naughton.

Josh needs the right coaching and sustained belief to produce his best. He may not get that and the track record is not great for similar players.

I fully expect he will be dropped this week, but believe he should be retained.

[Danjul]

Like many, I am conflicted about Josh. Why? Because I have seen what he can do - and the obverse.

I still believe we should play him for the rest of the year. Give him a decent run at it to prove he can or can't play. Then we'll be able to make a decision on surer ground.

He has been in and out and has covered more ground than Ludwig Leichhardt. Let's hope that he doesn't come to the same end as the peripatetic German.
The problem with Schache is he has been branded. You cannot see him without also seeing a distorted history.

Who can forget the coach sitting him on the bench for 45 minutes while the rest of the team fell apart. Well, everyone . They only remember that he made an error. They don’t remember that the others meekly capitulated and allowed Carlton to get 6 unanswered goals for an unexpected win.


Branding can work in a player’s favour. Think of Weightman. Exciting, excellent, lights up the forward line, etc.

Nobody noticed that 85% of his goals this year came against bottom teams that the Dogs defeated comfortably. When we needed one goal from him for a win against Adelaide he supplied zero. How many did he get against Port? Same story. Two teams the Dogs should have beaten to cement a place in the finals. But instead we lost both. We remember his goals but not the context.

We don’t look at Weightman’s performance honestly and we have never looked at Schache’s honestly. The focus is psychology, not footy.

Don’t get me wrong. I think both a good players. And In a team that was properly organised, based upon everyone playing to their strengths, would probably make the Dogs unstoppable. I am simply pointing out that they are viewed through a lens which gives the supporters what they need.

[EasternWest]

Weightman shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as him. Cody’s won games, plural, and some big games (Port last year) for us. He clearly had talent, heart, and something to work with.


The thing about Weightman is that even if he's having a bad game, he's always in the game. He's never far away from making something happen.

Schache's problem is if he's not in the game he's non existent. I'm happy to keep him on the list, but if there's an available upgrade, he's gone.

[Danjul]

The thing about Weightman is that even if he's having a bad game, he's always in the game. He's never far away from making something happen.

Schache's problem is if he's not in the game he's non existent. I'm happy to keep him on the list, but if there's an available upgrade, he's gone.
You obviously weren’t sitting behind the goals when Schache defeated hawthorn a few years ago. Or you didn’t see him kick 20 goals in 10 games in 2019 (?). Or you didn’t see the Dogs win clearances when he rucked on Thursday. We got a greater percentage of clearances than we have had with all other second ruckmen other than Sweet recently. In all cases the mood of the crowd is he is to be banished soon after.

You simply make my point. 1 possession from Weightman a Week ago was associated with the descriptions brave, genius , in the game Etc. For you he can do no wrong. For me that performance was a joke and salvaged partly by Schache’s performance that night. The selection decision was an insult to all players striving to be selected - reminded me of all of Bruce’s failures in 2020. When Weightman was goalless against Adelaide he had failed on the day. No need to come to his defence, players have bad days and we move on (well,for some).

Personally I enjoy watching Weightman, Bruce, Schache and the rest. I have seen Weightman as talented since his first kick. Bruce had a great year in 2021. But reality is reality when it occurs.