The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018

[bornadog]

Why?

JJ has been very poor playing across half forward and the wing.

He should be dropped IMO.

That aside, clearly he's a half back flanker who *may* be able to offer stints elsewhere but he certainly shouldn't be playing bulk minutes in the midfield or forward because his impact is very limited.

I don't like him at half forward either, I am talking more a wingman, which I see as someone feeding the forwards.

[stefoid]

Playing devil's advocate, is he what we need?

He's not overly quick, he's not a goal kicking mid and he hasn't got great skills.

I'd describe him as an adequate kick who is an absolute bull with leadership qualities. Could we do with him? Absolutely, but not sure he addresses some of our main concerns in the midfield and given what he'd cost, I don't think it would be a clear cut decision.

Those who know the draft well might be able to comment better.

I could also be convinced otherwise.

You win premierships if you have a team full of players with the qualities he does have tho. We did.

[Axe Man]

I don't like him at half forward either, I am talking more a wingman, which I see as someone feeding the forwards.

The trouble is he isn't the most accurate kick and the most difficult place on the ground to hit up a target is the forward 50. Even in the grand final he missed quite a few targets.

I would prefer he gets the bulk of his possessions in the back half and mostly tries to hit up targets across half forward where it's a little easier.

[stefoid]

Why?

JJ has been very poor playing across half forward and the wing.

He should be dropped IMO.

That aside, clearly he's a half back flanker who *may* be able to offer stints elsewhere but he certainly shouldn't be playing bulk minutes in the midfield or forward because his impact is very limited.

he got quite a few possessions against the dees and a lot of them contested. he made some poor kicks, but he was involved pretty consistently throughout the game. I think he could improve as someone plays in the forward half of the ground which I guess at the moment is out of his comfort zone, but realistically, who is pushing him out of that position? nobody.

[kruder]

Just looking ahead then we have Cordy Wood Adams Naughton Young and Trengove all in the backline with Williams, JJ Suckling and Richards as the flankers. Um What gives? Should we start developing Young as a forward? thoughts?

[GVGjr]

Just looking ahead then we have Cordy Wood Adams Naughton Young and Trengove all in the backline with Williams, JJ Suckling and Richards as the flankers. Um What gives? Should we start developing Young as a forward? thoughts?

I'd probably prefer Cordy as the forward but Young or Adams might make that transition.

[jeemak]

Just looking ahead then we have Cordy Wood Adams Naughton Young and Trengove all in the backline with Williams, JJ Suckling and Richards as the flankers. Um What gives? Should we start developing Young as a forward? thoughts?

Add Collins to that, who may get another year.

[kruder]

I'd probably prefer Cordy as the forward but Young or Adams might make that transition.

Yeah it will be definitely one of those three, will be very interesting to see the coaching groups approach. I just think if it is Young then start playing him as at forward at VFL level now. I've noticed they have started with Roberts. They should also play Webb exclusively as a forward at VFL level also, he will never make it as a inside mid and we have plenty of back flankers as discussed. Obviously its best for the VFL team he plays as a mid as we are short mids on the list but if he is to make it on our list it has to be as a forward.

[Mantis]

he got quite a few possessions against the dees and a lot of them contested. he made some poor kicks, but he was involved pretty consistently throughout the game. I think he could improve as someone plays in the forward half of the ground which I guess at the moment is out of his comfort zone, but realistically, who is pushing him out of that position? nobody.

For a player who has pretty much only one trick in his ability to run & carry (which is close to league best when on song) to have only 8 kicks is extremely poor... and although I don't have access to stats from re-collection I would think only about half of these hit the intended target/ were effective.

[bornadog]

For a player who has pretty much only one trick in his ability to run & carry (which is close to league best when on song) to have only 8 kicks is extremely poor... and although I don't have access to stats from re-collection I would think only about half of these hit the intended target/ were effective.

9 Kicks, 15 handballs, 12 cont.poss, 75% Disp efficiency

[Mofra]

Yeah it will be definitely one of those three, will be very interesting to see the coaching groups approach. I just think if it is Young then start playing him as at forward at VFL level now. I've noticed they have started with Roberts. They should also play Webb exclusively as a forward at VFL level also, he will never make it as a inside mid and we have plenty of back flankers as discussed. Obviously its best for the VFL team he plays as a mid as we are short mids on the list but if he is to make it on our list it has to be as a forward.
Adams has had a few stints forward and seemed quite good as a leading forward, but really with his injury issues we just need to find a way to get consistent, injury free football from him at any level before we start banking on him making a difference to our side.

[Topdog]

9 Kicks, 15 handballs, 12 cont.poss, 75% Disp efficiency

Unfortunately that tells us nothing about his kicks and their effectiveness.

Only 265 metres gained though which is really his best attribute. I really like him as a player but he is playing well below his best.

[stefoid]

For a player who has pretty much only one trick in his ability to run & carry (which is close to league best when on song) to have only 8 kicks is extremely poor... and although I don't have access to stats from re-collection I would think only about half of these hit the intended target/ were effective.

He is evasive in traffic, covers heaps of ground, applies himself defensively, and has some aerial ability, is a fairly reliable shot on goal. far from a one trick pony.

but yeah. Its a different gig for him. From the back half -
- your opponents are more worried about scoring than stopping you.
- as you go forward the ground is getting wider, and there are more free options to kick to

And we saw what happened to JJ last year when the opposition made a point of being more worried about stopping him than scoring. They stopped him. So improving ball winning ability is crucial for him. But his stats against Melbourne are encouraging in that regard. Of course if you are winning more hardball, you are going to be handballing more as a result. Obviously we would like him to play to his strengths - receive, run and kick - but its great to see he might have a plan B.

The guy has to learn to play midfield after a career of playing in the back half.
Thru the middle of the ground, the ground narrows, and the options ahead of you are few and difficult to hit. Its a way harder proposition to hit up a target with a long kick from the midfield. Particularly the headless chooks that currently make up our forward line.

But given the number of half backs we have on tap, I reckon we persist with JJ as a mid. Even with vast room for improvement, he is still one of our best options there. What have we got to lose?

[GVGjr]

While we are only about half way through the season I thought I'd start to have a look at some scenario's come the end of the season.

Free agents excluding rookies

Clay Smith, Dale Morris, Fergus Greene, Jordon Roughead, Kieran Collins, Lin Jong, Luke Dahlhaus, Matthew Suckling, Mitch Wallis
Shane Biggs, Tom Liberatore, Tom Campbell and Tory Dickson. Thats 13 players

On top of that there must be some question marks on Fletcher Roberts, Jack Redpath and Lukas Webb who are contracted through 2019.

There are good arguments to keep a lot of these players

Wallis is being linked to a couple of sides, Smith might be on the outer. Collins and Greene could be moved to the rookie list and Biggs seems to be another one on the outer. Campbell might have some suitors and Dickson and Morris might be battling injuries and age.


Rookies
Lynch
R.Smith
Gowers
Mullenger-McHugh

Gowers will be promoted and I'm not sure on Roarke Smith given our Pruden level type patience with him.
Lynch can't get on the park enough and is essentially a back flanker where we have a lot of depth
NMM is a pretty good player but we also have a lot of key position depth

Predicition: MNN and Lynch depart with R.Smith likely which gives us the maximum room on the rookie list.

[Happy Days]

While we are only about half way through the season I thought I'd start to have a look at some scenario's come the end of the season.

Free agents excluding rookies

Clay Smith, Dale Morris, Fergus Greene, Jordon Roughead, Kieran Collins, Lin Jong, Luke Dahlhaus, Matthew Suckling, Mitch Wallis
Shane Biggs, Tom Liberatore, Tom Campbell and Tory Dickson. Thats 13 players

On top of that there must be some question marks on Fletcher Roberts, Jack Redpath and Lukas Webb who are contracted through 2019.

There are good arguments to keep a lot of these players

Wallis is being linked to a couple of sides, Smith might be on the outer. Collins and Greene could be moved to the rookie list and Biggs seems to be another one on the outer. Campbell might have some suitors and Dickson and Morris might be battling injuries and age.


Before considering draft and trade strategy, you'd think that Dahl, Libba and Suckling would be retained. I'd keep Dickson too but his body is starting to pose hard questions. Biggs will almost certainly be given another seniors opportunity at some point, which if he takes then he would stay too. Wallis sure seems like he's on the way out, but he could easily be retained. If Morris can go again and he wants to then I would probably keep him.

I think Jong will be retained but he's never going to be anything better than our 20th best player. I think he possibly maybe should go.

I would cut Roughead without hesitation - is not quick enough to defend, not impactful enough in attack, and it's becoming painfully obvious he can't go in the ruck. It's a shame because he's clearly a quality person, but he isn't good enough.

Smith and Campbell both deserve a chance to test their abilities as of 2017 in the seniors. I actually have Campbell ahead of Roughead at the moment, and Smith when fit theoretically can be a useful (yet severely limited) small forward. But if either of them go then I wouldn't lose sleep. Plus I strongly suspect Smith's body is shot.

Willing to give Collins a proper look once he's back from injury - actually showed a bit towards the end of last year and had much improved movement.

Greene is an easy cut.



Rookies
Lynch
R.Smith
Gowers
Mullenger-McHugh

Gowers will be promoted and I'm not sure on Roarke Smith given our Pruden level type patience with him.
Lynch can't get on the park enough and is essentially a back flanker where we have a lot of depth
NMM is a pretty good player but we also have a lot of key position depth

Predicition: MNN and Lynch depart with R.Smith likely which gives us the maximum room on the rookie list.

I would cut all of these guys - at absolute most keep Gowers on the rookie list.

[GVGjr]

I wonder if we were to cut Collins and Greene would we consider trying to get them on the rookie list?

Happy Days, how many players would you want to be moved on?

[Sedat]

Gowers divides the woof community even more than Suckers does. Surely he could not have done more to at least retain his place on the rookie list for another 12 months. He has come off 3 years in the system, the first 2 wiped out by injury and the 3rd showing significant improvement in a part-time system. He's backed that up with another strong step forward in his first year at AFL senior level. If he can continue to grow his fitness base there's no reason why he can't continue to improve. He's by no means the finished article but worth persisting with for at least another 12 months IMO.

There are several players whose careers are on the line in the next 11 weeks. I think we will be very active players in the off-season, and frankly we need to be.

[GVGjr]

Gowers divides the woof community even more than Suckers does. Surely he could not have done more to at least retain his place on the rookie list for another 12 months. He has come off 3 years in the system, the first 2 wiped out by injury and the 3rd showing significant improvement in a part-time system. He's backed that up with another strong step forward in his first year at AFL senior level. If he can continue to grow his fitness base there's no reason why he can't continue to improve. He's by no means the finished article but worth persisting with for at least another 12 months IMO.

There are several players whose careers are on the line in the next 11 weeks. I think we will be very active players in the off-season, and frankly we need to be.

Gowers deserves a promotion and as you say the worst case scenario is that he stays on the rookie list. Suckling has probably had his best ever season and has probably only had two poor games so far this season. One of the biggest improvers this season along with Williams and McLean.

Back to Gowers and his turnaround in form, it's one of the reasons why think we might need to exercise more patience Collins.

[Happy Days]

I wonder if we were to cut Collins and Greene would we consider trying to get them on the rookie list?

Happy Days, how many players would you want to be moved on?

I don't see the point in hanging onto Greene and it's exactly the sort of overly-persistent move we've been guilty of for the last 20 years that has us in this difficult list management position now.

Ideally we'd look to cut 6-7 guys, but we're in a pretty delicate spot, given that we'll likely only draft 3 players (due to having to have enough points for Kamis and West and - if I've understood correctly - having no second round pick), and with the guys coming out of contract next year, a likely deep cut at next season's end. These factors could likely save guys on the bubble like Biggs and Jong.

I think the most preferential option is trading guys like Jong and Wallis for picks to accumulate points for West and Kamis, and try to snag an additional pick from somewhere in the 2nd-3rd round.

[GVGjr]

I don't see the point in hanging onto Greene and it's exactly the sort of overly-persistent move we've been guilty of for the last 20 years that has us in this difficult list management position now.

Ideally we'd look to cut 6-7 guys, but we're in a pretty delicate spot, given that we'll likely only draft 3 players (due to having to have enough points for Kamis and West and - if I've understood correctly - having no second round pick), and with the guys coming out of contract next year, a likely deep cut at next season's end. These factors could likely save guys on the bubble like Biggs and Jong.

I think the most preferential option is trading guys like Jong and Wallis for picks to accumulate points for West and Kamis, and try to snag an additional pick from somewhere in the 2nd-3rd round.

My view with Greene is that he was always going to take a few years to see his value. He has good pace, endurance and he is a very good kick. I don't think 2 years is enough to gauge him correctly.

6 or 7 seems to be the right number although based on form and where we are likely to finish there would be a few very lucky players to survive. We weren't forceful enough last year but we probably can't overdo it this year because we don't want too many players selected from the back end of the draft.

[bulldogtragic]

For mine:

FA's: I'd work hard to keep Libba. I'd allow Dahl, Roughy & Wallis to strongly explore their options.
Main List: I'd delist or look to trade from: Clay Smith, Campbell, Roberts, Redpath, Webb might have some other club interest, Morris & Picken retired
Rookie List: I'd leave Gowers here. NMM, Roarke Smith & Lynch to go?

Fringe Keeps: Jong & Biggs for depth, Greene to see if he can put it all together, Collins if his body holds up.

I'd listen to a strong offer on JJ, but not shop him.

So probably 6-7 off the main list, 3 off the rookie list:

Leaving us currently draft picks: 5, 41, 59, 60, 78, 96, 104 - and - RD Picks 5, 23, 41.

Then look to get FA compo and trades into a much better hand to get a gun at pick 5, Rhylee & Khamis, see if Dawson or Chatfield are worthwhile NGAs later on or rookie draft with any live picks not too low. If we get good FA compo I'd sit FA out as not to stuff our compo. Not sure we will be doing any big trades unless someone comes knocking for a JJ type trade we'd have to yes to.

[Twodogs]

I would be keeping Wallis. We need as many players who can kick straight as we can.

[FrediKanoute]

For mine:

FA's: I'd work hard to keep Libba. I'd allow Dahl, Roughy & Wallis to strongly explore their options.
Main List: I'd delist or look to trade from: Clay Smith, Campbell, Roberts, Redpath, Webb might have some other club interest, Morris & Picken retired
Rookie List: I'd leave Gowers here. NMM, Roarke Smith & Lynch to go?

Fringe Keeps: Jong & Biggs for depth, Greene to see if he can put it all together, Collins if his body holds up.

I'd listen to a strong offer on JJ, but not shop him.

So probably 6-7 off the main list, 3 off the rookie list:

Leaving us currently draft picks: 5, 41, 59, 60, 78, 96, 104 - and - RD Picks 5, 23, 41.

Then look to get FA compo and trades into a much better hand to get a gun at pick 5, Rhylee & Khamis, see if Dawson or Chatfield are worthwhile NGAs later on or rookie draft with any live picks not too low. If we get good FA compo I'd sit FA out as not to stuff our compo. Not sure we will be doing any big trades unless someone comes knocking for a JJ type trade we'd have to yes to.

I see where you are going re the 1st three. I concur on Roughie (reluctantly), but am not sure on the other 2. For a team that is struggling to win a contested ball its a mystery why these guys aren't playing well or in the team. Dahl has had a down year, but I think Wallis has been a little hard done by.

Agree on Gowers. Yes he has had a good start, but honestly he makes some poor decisions and his goal kicking from set shots is awful. Remain on the rookie list and lets see how it goes.

Jong, will give him the benefit of doubt coming off a knee, but tbh, we should have shopped him to Collingwood. The same knocks are on him now as were on him as a Rookie.

[bulldogtragic]

I see where you are going re the 1st three. I concur on Roughie (reluctantly), but am not sure on the other 2. For a team that is struggling to win a contested ball its a mystery why these guys aren't playing well or in the team. Dahl has had a down year, but I think Wallis has been a little hard done by.

Agree on Gowers. Yes he has had a good start, but honestly he makes some poor decisions and his goal kicking from set shots is awful. Remain on the rookie list and lets see how it goes.

Jong, will give him the benefit of doubt coming off a knee, but tbh, we should have shopped him to Collingwood. The same knocks are on him now as were on him as a Rookie.

Don't disagree with too much of that. I was against drafting Gowers, as was Dalrymple, but we have him now and I'm strongly against elevation for him. If he can't temper some bad decisions he makes, and kick a basic set shot from more than 10m out, then he can leave next year or maybe get tried a bit further up the ground.

For all of Dahl, Roughy, Jong & Wally the main issue now is that we won't get much unless we can get two clubs seriously dualing for them. I won't bet on that happening, except that Dahl may if a club factors in marketing into their decision making (see Essendon every year). Dahl gets mentioned because he 'may' be worth more than his output. Wally gets mentioned because Stevo and other journos are whispering other clubs names in the same sentence, and Bevo won't play him despite being clearly in front of others selected.

I think this trading season might be an especially polarising time for our fans and members.

[GVGjr]

For mine:

FA's: I'd work hard to keep Libba. I'd allow Dahl, Roughy & Wallis to strongly explore their options.
Main List: I'd delist or look to trade from: Clay Smith, Campbell, Roberts, Redpath, Webb might have some other club interest, Morris & Picken retired
Rookie List: I'd leave Gowers here. NMM, Roarke Smith & Lynch to go?

Fringe Keeps: Jong & Biggs for depth, Greene to see if he can put it all together, Collins if his body holds up.

I'd listen to a strong offer on JJ, but not shop him.

So probably 6-7 off the main list, 3 off the rookie list:

Leaving us currently draft picks: 5, 41, 59, 60, 78, 96, 104 - and - RD Picks 5, 23, 41.

Then look to get FA compo and trades into a much better hand to get a gun at pick 5, Rhylee & Khamis, see if Dawson or Chatfield are worthwhile NGAs later on or rookie draft with any live picks not too low. If we get good FA compo I'd sit FA out as not to stuff our compo. Not sure we will be doing any big trades unless someone comes knocking for a JJ type trade we'd have to yes to.

Great post BT, The challenge appears to be more around having too many selections late in the draft because then the selections come down to maintaining players that we have 2 or 3 year of development in or selecting players that are more of a long shot. Invariably it gets tempting for us to go back to the devil we know and there isn't a lot of difference in selecting for the rookie list.

We need to get a 2nd round pick or a couple of 3rd round picks so we have some currency in terms of points or have some selections early enough so that they matter.

With that in mind, Wallis and or Dahlhaus would probably have some suitors, Campbell might be a good insurance policy for a club like Fremantle and Roberts might be someone who likes of Richmond or StKilda would like to add to their list. There might even be some interest in the likes of Clay Smith or Webb.

We simply can't have too many picks at the back end of the draft and we need improve our position. We will have to let something decent go to achieve that or get very creative with a trade where we offer to pay a salary of a player to a team with some salary cap issues.

If we were to get a 2nd round pick via FA's then that helps significantly.

[boydogs]

FA's: I'd work hard to keep Libba

Think he can get back to his best after 2 ACL's?

[ledge]

Think he can get back to his best after 2 ACL's?

A lot do ,Royal had done two before he even started his career and that was when knee surgery was well below what it is now.
Is it Menzal at Geelong who has done 4 ?

[bulldogtragic]

Think he can get back to his best after 2 ACL's?

I'd back him in, or roll the dice, depending on ones perspective. He's surely not worth much (FA/trade wise) off the back of another innocuous ACL, so he'd be worth more if he gets to anything like his good level.

[Dry Rot]

de Gooey is off contract this year. Pies will need a good pick to get Lynch.

Any interest?

[kruder]

Its amazing how many media reports have Wallis gone at seasons end. I remember back a few years ago that Wallis was regarded as the coaches pet how things have changed. There is obviously quite a few relationship issues down at the club, you don't have to be an insider to know that, its kinda starting to feel like when Buckley took over and ended up clearing out half the list. It took Collingwood along time to recover partially due to injuries and also picking the wrong talent. Its going to be a huge off season at the kennel, premiership players will go, friendships tested and one things for sure we cant afford another Jake Stringer style exit we need to be better than that. Getting the club all back working from the same page will Bevo's biggest test yet..

[Dry Rot]

A question re matching a RFA offer. McGovern of WCE is a RFA and apparently the Swans are trying to get him.

Say the Eagles offer McGovern 3 years at $x per year but the Swans offer him 5 years at $x-100k.

Have the Eagles "matched" the Swans' offer? Gets tricky when dollars and duration are involved.

[Mantis]

I would be keeping Wallis. We need as many players who can kick straight as we can.

Would like to see the breakdown of shots form inside & outside 25m as I have a feeling that the difference would be vast.... It's probably the same for lots of players, but moreso for Mitch who doesn't have a powerful leg so really needs to be very close to goal to maintain his accuracy.

[Mofra]

Gowers deserves a promotion and as you say the worst case scenario is that he stays on the rookie list. Suckling has probably had his best ever season and has probably only had two poor games so far this season. One of the biggest improvers this season along with Williams and McLean.

Back to Gowers and his turnaround in form, it's one of the reasons why think we might need to exercise more patience Collins.
The major difference with Collins and Gowers is that Gowers plays in a position we're in desperate need of and is performing at AFL level.

Collins is developing/depth at best and has a number of players ahead of him. He has a highish draft pick and base salary on his side and he is still young so that could save him for another 12 months.

[Bulldog4life]

Gowers deserves a promotion and as you say the worst case scenario is that he stays on the rookie list. Suckling has probably had his best ever season and has probably only had two poor games so far this season. One of the biggest improvers this season along with Williams and McLean.

Back to Gowers and his turnaround in form, it's one of the reasons why think we might need to exercise more patience Collins.

Hope we keep Collins. Still young. If we don't wouldn't surprise if Collingwood pounces. Sanderson was a big wrap for him underage. Was one of his coaches at the Acamedy.

[Twodogs]

Would like to see the breakdown of shots form inside & outside 25m as I have a feeling that the difference would be vast.... It's probably the same for lots of players, but moreso for Mitch who doesn't have a powerful leg so really needs to be very close to goal to maintain his accuracy.


Very true. He is only accurate compared to his teammates, some of whom have trouble making the distance from 25 metres out.

I can't believe that a group of professional footballers can't improve their kicking and in some cases their kicking deteriorates.

[Axe Man]

Any interest? We are crying out for a spark up forward...

Crow McGovern believed to want to leave, with preference for Victoria (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/crow-mcgovern-believed-to-want-to-leave-with-preference-for-victoria-20180612-p4zl1t.html)

Adelaide star Mitch McGovern is understood to want to break his contract with the Crows – again.

Fairfax Media can reveal the 23-year-old sought to move clubs last October despite agreeing to a three-year contract extension in late August, becaus he feltthe Crows had short-changed him in the deal.

McGovern, who hails from Western Australia, is understood to have chosen Victoria as his preferred destination,

It’s believed McGovern agreed to the Adelaide deal because the club said it had no more room in its salary cap.

The Crows then signed Bryce Gibbs from Carlton in a deal worth more per season than McGovern.

Other clubs were well aware late in last year's trade period that McGovern was looking to get out of Adelaide. Those same clubs believe he will attempt to leave again at the end of this season.

“I love the playing group I’m playing with, but also the staff and everyone involved,” McGovern told the club’s website on August 29 last year when he re-signed.

“The culture is fantastic here. It’s one of the best-run clubs that I can see and I’m glad to be a part of it. I’m pretty excited for the future ahead.”

Although returning home to play in WA is a motivation, McGovern is aware that his brother, West Coast's Jeremy, may also move clubs. Sydney has joined the race for his services, along with several Victorian clubs.

Mitch McGovern is still at least a month away from returning to football as he continues to recover from a serious ankle injury.

He’s kicked 65 goals in his 44 games, including 13 this year, five against Carlton in round seven in a near best-on-ground display.

The coming off-season looms as one of the most significant ones in recent years for Adelaide.

On top of out-of-contract stars Rory Sloane and Tom Lynch being courted by Victorian clubs, the Crows now face a challenge to hold on to McGovern, who is both young and in contract.

Hawthorn have seriously entered the race for Sloane along with St Kilda, while the Crows are still hopeful that Lynch will sign the three-year extension in front of him.

[jeemak]

Doubtful that he's going to select us, though I would love to have him at the Bulldogs. Adelaide will want a lot for him.

Any capable forward should be on our radar, given the state of our forward set up at present.

[LostDoggy]

Any interest? We are crying out for a spark up forward...

Crow McGovern believed to want to leave, with preference for Victoria (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/crow-mcgovern-believed-to-want-to-leave-with-preference-for-victoria-20180612-p4zl1t.html)

Adelaide star Mitch McGovern is understood to want to break his contract with the Crows – again.

Fairfax Media can reveal the 23-year-old sought to move clubs last October despite agreeing to a three-year contract extension in late August, becaus he feltthe Crows had short-changed him in the deal.

McGovern, who hails from Western Australia, is understood to have chosen Victoria as his preferred destination,

It’s believed McGovern agreed to the Adelaide deal because the club said it had no more room in its salary cap.

The Crows then signed Bryce Gibbs from Carlton in a deal worth more per season than McGovern.

Other clubs were well aware late in last year's trade period that McGovern was looking to get out of Adelaide. Those same clubs believe he will attempt to leave again at the end of this season.

“I love the playing group I’m playing with, but also the staff and everyone involved,” McGovern told the club’s website on August 29 last year when he re-signed.

“The culture is fantastic here. It’s one of the best-run clubs that I can see and I’m glad to be a part of it. I’m pretty excited for the future ahead.”

Although returning home to play in WA is a motivation, McGovern is aware that his brother, West Coast's Jeremy, may also move clubs. Sydney has joined the race for his services, along with several Victorian clubs.

Mitch McGovern is still at least a month away from returning to football as he continues to recover from a serious ankle injury.

He’s kicked 65 goals in his 44 games, including 13 this year, five against Carlton in round seven in a near best-on-ground display.

The coming off-season looms as one of the most significant ones in recent years for Adelaide.

On top of out-of-contract stars Rory Sloane and Tom Lynch being courted by Victorian clubs, the Crows now face a challenge to hold on to McGovern, who is both young and in contract.

Hawthorn have seriously entered the race for Sloane along with St Kilda, while the Crows are still hopeful that Lynch will sign the three-year extension in front of him.

Every team would be interested in McGovern as well performed 23yo versatile talls are in short supply. With all our young kpps in development though, Im not sure we could justify a huge outlay on him. I reckon a club like Richmond, who have minimal back up for Riewoldt, would be offering a fair bit more than us.

[bulldogtragic]

Doubtful that he's going to select us, though I would love to have him at the Bulldogs. Adelaide will want a lot for him.

Any capable forward should be on our radar, given the state of our forward set up at present.

Pretty much this. We should be trying to have his ear, but there's other clubs with more to trade and more to pay. Our pick 5 is untouchable to me, so they'd want Williams or Daniel plus more, which I'm not sure we can part with.

[josie]

Why not let Boyd & Schache play in forward line, and bring in some smaller forward to support them? If we do poach a mature good/v.good player I hope it's a speedy, skilful midfielder. Smaller forwards should not cost as much as another tall KPF. What message will it send to Boyd & Schache if we recruit another tall forward?

[Axe Man]

Why not let Boyd & Schache play in forward line, and bring in some smaller forward to support them? If we do poach a mature good/v.good player I hope it's a speedy, skilful midfielder. Smaller forwards should not cost as much as another tall KPF. What message will it send to Boyd & Schache if we recruit another tall forward?

McGovern is more a third tall type (he's only 190cm) and has played alongside Walker, Jenkins and Lynch in the Crows forwardline. He's more of an upgrade on Gowers than direct competition for Boyd or Schache.

He would unquestionably improve our side, as would players like Gaff or Wines, but the way we are travelling at the moment it's very unlikely we could persuade a big name to our club even if we had the cash and trade currency.

[josie]

McGovern is more a third tall type (he's only 190cm) and has played alongside Walker, Jenkins and Lynch in the Crows forwardline. He's more of an upgrade on Gowers than direct competition for Boyd or Schache.

He would unquestionably improve our side, as would players like Gaff or Wines, but the way we are travelling at the moment it's very unlikely we could persuade a big name to our club even if we had the cash and trade currency.

Fair enough, I thought he was taller than that. If he does not cost pick 5 then probably ok (Gowers promising but wayward goal kicking, and Dickson looks like he is having old man injuries too), but as you say we are probably not a destination club.

[FrediKanoute]

We weren't a destination account when we got Boyd.....

[Bullies]

We should target Beams. Probably too good a user of the ball for us though.

[bornadog]

Bombers keen on Wallis (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/bombers-keen-on-wallis-20180614-p4zldp.html)


Essendon is among the clubs interested in Western Bulldogs midfielder and free agent Mitch Wallis, who has been out of favour at Whitten Oval for much of this season.

The Bombers are keen to acquire an inside midfielder and have identified Wallis, who is a restricted free agent, among their potential midfield targets.

Wallis is weighing up a potential move and despite a handsome reputation at his father's old club is viewed as "gettable'' by rivals, largely because he spent time in the VFL in this season. The Bulldogs have recalled him to the seniors for their Thursday night clash with Port Adelaide.

Essendon, like other Melbourne clubs, would have loved to snare powerful Port Adelaide midfielder Ollie Wines, but the Dons recognise that Wines is set to re-sign with Port and are looking at other options.

While several clubs are keen on West Coast free agent Andrew Gaff, the Bombers have not been one of the strong suitors for Gaff, because they feel their main need is for an inside midfielder, having lost the retired Jobe Watson and having Zach Merrett and David Zaharakis and others to provide outside run.

Wallis missed the Bulldogs' 2016 premiership after breaking his leg during that storied season. He overcame that serious injury to return to the side in round nine of last year, playing seven games in 2017.

Wallis was relegated to the VFL in the first two games of this season in a sign that he was out of favour. His stature at the Bulldogs was sufficient for him to be a restricted free agent, which means his 2018 salary places him in the top 25 percent of players. Fellow midfielders Luke Dahlhaus and Tom Liberatore are also free agents this year. Unlike Wallis, Dahlhaus has indicated a preference to stay to the club.

He returned to the seniors for round three and played seven consecutive games - averaging 21 disposals - before he was dropped again for the round 10 game against Collingwood.

Wallis' father Steve played 261 games for the Bulldogs over a distinguished 14-year career. Mitch was recruited to the Dogs under the father-son rule.

Steve Wallis has some links with Essendon, having a car dealership in the Essendon area with former player manager John Andrews, who is involved in an Essendon coterie.

[LostDoggy]

https://www.3aw.com.au/warren-tredrea-says-the-bulldogs-ruckman-will-be-elsewhere-in-2019/

It's being reported that at least 3 different clubs are chasing Roughead and that he will be moving at the end of the season.

[bornadog]

https://www.3aw.com.au/warren-tredrea-says-the-bulldogs-ruckman-will-be-elsewhere-in-2019/

It's being reported that at least 3 different clubs are chasing Roughead and that he will be moving at the end of the season.

He does talk shit. ;)

[G-Mo77]

He does talk shit. ;)

Our coach did during that interview IMO. I wouldn't at all be surprised it got him and Wallis offside. Those conversations should be held behind doors not in a press conference in front of vultures.

[GVGjr]

Depending on how deeply we are intending to cut into the playing list I'd be reluctant to let him go.
I think he could still improve as a ruckman and he can play as an occasional key defender although I know many on here will dispute that.

I do struggle with idea of letting go of quality people like Wallis and Roughead. I'd rather lose players that don't buy into what the club is trying to achieve even if they have more talent.

[bulldogtragic]

If the compo is end of second round or better, I guess we take it. Bevo doesn't seem to rate them high enough, but if its third rounders then that's not a great return. I'd have Dahl leave as FA first, and JJ first gone if we could get something good for him. Adelaide are after a running defender, how about a straight swap for McGovern? Both under contract on good money, and we need a good mid sized forward.

[G-Mo77]

Depending on how deeply we are intending to cut into the playing list I'd be reluctant to let him go.
I think he could still improve as a ruckman and he can play as an occasional key defender although I know many on here will dispute that.

I do struggle with idea of letting go of quality people like Wallis and Roughead. I'd rather lose players that don't buy into what the club is trying to achieve even if they have more talent.

That's my issue as well GVG. Both good people and both bleed Red White and Blue, both rumoured to want out. That's a fair sign of a toxic environment if it is true.

[bulldogtragic]

That's my issue as well GVG. Both good people and both bleed Red White and Blue, both rumoured to want out. That's a fair sign of a toxic environment if it is true.

This. You couldn't find more one eyed one club player wannabes than these two at the beginning of the year. So what's happened or happening?

[The bulldog tragician]

This. You couldn't find more one eyed one club player wannabes than these two at the beginning of the year. So what's happened or happening?

I really can’t understand why Bevo publicly challenged both Wally & Rough as he did. They are proud guys and immensely popular with their team mates. And I hate the thought of these heart and soul guys leaving. Our relatively strong culture over the past couple of decades was built on a solid group of fine people and one club players. Very strange times at the Kennel.

[bulldogtragic]

I really can’t understand why Bevo publicly challenged both Wally & Rough as he did. They are proud guys and immensely popular with their team mates. And I hate the thought of these heart and soul guys leaving. Our relatively strong culture over the past couple of decades was built on a solid group of fine people and one club players. Very strange times at the Kennel.

I said a couple of weeks ago the trading period will be polarising this year. The closer that period gets, the more polarising I think it's going to be for members and fans. I think it's going to be hard for many to see certain guys go, while plodders and list cloggers stay on. Then the media carnage around it. The last time a handful of fan favourites left badly, the coach got sacked despite having a contract. The players/draftees we got were Biggs, Hamilton, Webb & Boyd (giving GWS our first rounder too). Boyd may be the only one left on the list out of those possibly.

[GVGjr]

That's my issue as well GVG. Both good people and both bleed Red White and Blue, both rumoured to want out. That's a fair sign of a toxic environment if it is true.

To be honest, I think the article where Bevo indicated they needed to lift just opened the door on the rumour that they might want to leave. I think it's just pure speculation and Bevo more or less challenged their pride so it will be interesting to see how they respond. Body language for players like them is normally a good indicator on their intention.
Quality players like Wallis and Roughead tend to fight for their position rather than meekly surrender unless the club is has made it clear that it's unlikely they will be at the club next year..

Was Bevo challenging them or putting an open for inspection notice to the other clubs? If it's the former then I don't think he should have done it. Time will tell if we are genuinely looking to clean house.

[G-Mo77]

It is all just rumours so there is that. Challenging players I have no issue with, challenging them in public is very ordinary.

[jeemak]

Perhaps the playing group is needing senior players to step up and the private conversations with these particular two players have already happened a few times already. For instance, throughout last year when they were also playing below standard for each of them. Perhaps behind the scenes we're hearing from their managers they are looking at other offers and we are doubling down on a message already delivered.

JJ is playing a role that we all don't think he's suited to, perhaps that's why he's not been called out by the coach to this point. He could easily play back, but because of the abundance of lesser players in his preferred position who can't play forward, he's taking a hit for the team.

We think we're smarter than those dealing with the situation all the time. I'm guilty of it, we all are. If we can see it, it's likely everyone at the club can as well. But, we don't see what they see up close.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

We struggle to attract talent via trades, we seem to falter in recent times in developing the talent we have. We've also found innumerable ways to sit on our own balls in procedural, contractual, marketing and communications.
Maybe our best strategic move right now is to focus our efforts on recruiting the best back office, football department, recruiting and coaching staff.
Could that be where we can leverage things to have the best impact?

[LostDoggy]

It is all just rumours so there is that. Challenging players I have no issue with, challenging them in public is very ordinary.
o
Particularly when we have 2 first year people in charge of list management. It's not even really Bevo's role to be talking about list management publicly at all. His comments are as difficult for the list managers as for Wallis and Roughy. Bevo is not so naive that he wouldn't understand the impact of making these comments publicly. I really hope that our football department is broadly working together but a lot of the signs aren't great. Strange times indeed.

[bornadog]

o
Particularly when we have 2 first year people in charge of list management. It's not even really Bevo's role to be talking about list management publicly at all. His comments are as difficult for the list managers as for Wallis and Roughy. Bevo is not so naive that he wouldn't understand the impact of making these comments publicly. I really hope that our football department is broadly working together but a lot of the signs aren't great. Strange times indeed.

I think it is blown out of proportion by journos. Example: They ask a question like "You have dropped Wallis and Roughead two free agents this year." So Bevo answers "yes we are asking them to do a lot more. Journo then takes this and headlines " Free Agents asked to do alot more"

[G-Mo77]

I think it is blown out of proportion by journos. Example: They ask a question like "You have dropped Wallis and Roughead two free agents this year." So Bevo answers "yes we are asking them to do a lot more. Journo then takes this and headlines " Free Agents asked to do alot more"

Need to do more to have a future at the club and develop a qualative sheen were used to describe both players when asked about free agency. Bevo lowered his colours with his comments. I'd be dissapointed if it were said about me in a public forum.

[bulldogtragic]

Need to do more to have a future at the club and develop a qualative sheen were used to describe both players when asked about free agency. Bevo lowered his colours with his comments. I'd be dissapointed if it were said about me in a public forum.

Your qualitative sheen can never be questioned. And I'll fight anyone who says otherwise! :D

[G-Mo77]

Your qualitative sheen can never be questioned. And I'll fight anyone who says otherwise! :D

I never had any.

[Remi Moses]

Gotta say it’s pretty captain obvious stuff with Roughead and a few others that they need to lift .
The coach has basically put on the table something which was patently obvious I would have thought .

[AndrewP6]

Gotta say it’s pretty captain obvious stuff with Roughead and a few others that they need to lift .
The coach has basically put on the table something which was patently obvious I would have thought .

Agreed. I don't have a problem with him mentioning they need to lift. Could have said it about half a dozen others too though.

[G-Mo77]

Gotta say it’s pretty captain obvious stuff with Roughead and a few others that they need to lift .
The coach has basically put on the table something which was patently obvious I would have thought .

And I don't have an issue of a coach calling a player out.......behind closed doors. Public forum with vultures salivating to pick at our carcass is an awful way to challenge them.

[bulldogtragic]

Any interest? We are crying out for a spark up forward...

Crow McGovern believed to want to leave, with preference for Victoria (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/crow-mcgovern-believed-to-want-to-leave-with-preference-for-victoria-20180612-p4zl1t.html)

Adelaide star Mitch McGovern is understood to want to break his contract with the Crows – again.

Fairfax Media can reveal the 23-year-old sought to move clubs last October despite agreeing to a three-year contract extension in late August, becaus he feltthe Crows had short-changed him in the deal.

McGovern, who hails from Western Australia, is understood to have chosen Victoria as his preferred destination,

It’s believed McGovern agreed to the Adelaide deal because the club said it had no more room in its salary cap.

The Crows then signed Bryce Gibbs from Carlton in a deal worth more per season than McGovern.

Other clubs were well aware late in last year's trade period that McGovern was looking to get out of Adelaide. Those same clubs believe he will attempt to leave again at the end of this season.

“I love the playing group I’m playing with, but also the staff and everyone involved,” McGovern told the club’s website on August 29 last year when he re-signed.

“The culture is fantastic here. It’s one of the best-run clubs that I can see and I’m glad to be a part of it. I’m pretty excited for the future ahead.”

Although returning home to play in WA is a motivation, McGovern is aware that his brother, West Coast's Jeremy, may also move clubs. Sydney has joined the race for his services, along with several Victorian clubs.

Mitch McGovern is still at least a month away from returning to football as he continues to recover from a serious ankle injury.

He’s kicked 65 goals in his 44 games, including 13 this year, five against Carlton in round seven in a near best-on-ground display.

The coming off-season looms as one of the most significant ones in recent years for Adelaide.

On top of out-of-contract stars Rory Sloane and Tom Lynch being courted by Victorian clubs, the Crows now face a challenge to hold on to McGovern, who is both young and in contract.

Hawthorn have seriously entered the race for Sloane along with St Kilda, while the Crows are still hopeful that Lynch will sign the three-year extension in front of him.

Just now on future stars, they seem to think the rumours might be true about McGovern. Brown & Boomer reckon we need someone like jim. They reckon he's worth up to $600,000.

JJ is on $600,000. Both McGovern & JJ have four years to run on their contracts. Adelaide have said they're after an attacking HBF. I wonder if there's an area to explore here for both clubs being McGovern appears unhappy and JJ appears disinterested, but the swaps could reinvigorate both players and not upset the salary cap. Just whatever the trade is.

[bornadog]

Just now on future stars, they seem to think the rumours might be true about McGovern. Brown & Boomer reckon we need someone like jim. They reckon he's worth up to $600,000.

JJ is on $600,000. Both McGovern & JJ have four years to run on their contracts. Adelaide have said they're after an attacking HBF. I wonder if there's an area to explore here for both clubs being McGovern appears unhappy and JJ appears disinterested, but the swaps could reinvigorate both players and not upset the salary cap. Just whatever the trade is.

Not sure why you keep bringing up JJ's name, he is a wanted player, he has a contract. End of story.

[bulldogtragic]

Not sure why you keep bringing up JJ's name, he is a wanted player, he has a contract. End of story.

I'm not sure contracts mean what they used to. And you have to give up something of value to get something of value. JJ is tradable in my estimation, for the right trade.

[bornadog]

I'm not sure contracts mean what they used to. And you have to give up something of value to get something of value. JJ is tradable in my estimation, for the right trade.

Why would we trade him?

[bulldogtragic]

Why would we trade him?

Maybe he's gone stale. Maybe he's not as interested in the changes in position as the coaches are. Maybe if an offer came along that Sam Power thought represented more value to the list than what we are getting, Sam might take it. I've said previously that I wouldn't be actively pursuing trading him, but that if a club came Sam Power and the offer was a good pick, or a McGovern type then we should be thinking very, very hard about taking it.

JJ seems only effective off half back, this forward thing is horrible. We've got Suckling, Crozier, Williams, Biggs (?), Richards and could try Dale, Lipinski &/or Webb there next year, plus likely Khamis. So we could afford to lose him... For the right trade only.

[Twodogs]

Why would we trade him?

Because he has trade value and I'm not sure how interested he is in playing in a team that is rebuilding. It might be best for both of us to look at alternatives. If we wait another year JJ may drive his value down even more. He might become the JJ we all know and love too but he doesn't look to me like he's going to get there with us.

[LostDoggy]

Hypothetical question: If Dahlhaus, Wallis, Liberatore and Roughead were all offered 3 year deals of $450-$500k pa by various different clubs, do we match all 4 of those offers. If not, who do we value highest?

[Mofra]

Hypothetical question: If Dahlhaus, Wallis, Liberatore and Roughead were all offered 3 year deals of $450-$500k pa by various different clubs, do we match all 4 of those offers. If not, who do we value highest?
Libba.
Arguably, Libba only. I really can't see anyone offering Roughy that much though.

[bulldogtragic]

Hypothetical question: If Dahlhaus, Wallis, Liberatore and Roughead were all offered 3 year deals of $450-$500k pa by various different clubs, do we match all 4 of those offers. If not, who do we value highest?


Libba.
Arguably, Libba only. I really can't see anyone offering Roughy that much though.

Ditto, if Libba's head is in the game and he potentially wants to play with his brother in 18 months and be a genuine leader to him and others, then yep. We currently have one draft pick inside the top 40 (pick 5). Then there's West & Khamis. Dahl, Wallis & Roughy going will most likely land us enough points to add West & Khamis to pick 5. Then we still have 41, 59 & 60.

Pick 5, West, Khamis, 41, 59 & 60 - locked away without factoring in trading is a good starting point for an actual rebuild and not a refresh. So I'd let Dahl, Roughy & Wally go with thanks for their service.

[Twodogs]

Definitely Libba.

[FrediKanoute]

Ditto, if Libba's head is in the game and he potentially wants to play with his brother in 18 months and be a genuine leader to him and others, then yep. We currently have one draft pick inside the top 40 (pick 5). Then there's West & Khamis. Dahl, Wallis & Roughy going will most likely land us enough points to add West & Khamis to pick 5. Then we still have 41, 59 & 60.

Pick 5, West, Khamis, 41, 59 & 60 - locked away without factoring in trading is a good starting point for an actual rebuild and not a refresh. So I'd let Dahl, Roughy & Wally go with thanks for their service.

Sorry can't agree. There are much worse players on our list that should be given the *rse than those 3 whether they command trade value or not. If you get rid of those 3, and move on the ones that need to be moved on you are gutting a 1/4 of the list. You are setting the list up for a long period of stagnation - see Melbourne, St.Kilda, Carlton.

A list needs balance. A balance between hard bodied players who can do the hard stuff and cool heads who can keep control of a game. You also need a blend of youth, the hunger, the enthusiasm. That's what Geelong, Hawthorn, Brisbance (during the 3 peat) and Sydney have all managed to do. Loading up on good young players without the hard bodies to protect and guide them will consign us to one hit wonder status.

[LostDoggy]

To my mind, Libba and Wallis are definite keeps. With Dahlhaus, if he is made a decent offer, a lot of the decision will come down to a call as to where his head is at. I feel like he may well be elsewhere next year. Any decent offer to Roughy may see us wish him all the best I suspect.

[bulldogtragic]

Sorry can't agree. There are much worse players on our list that should be given the *rse than those 3 whether they command trade value or not. If you get rid of those 3, and move on the ones that need to be moved on you are gutting a 1/4 of the list. You are setting the list up for a long period of stagnation - see Melbourne, St.Kilda, Carlton.

A list needs balance. A balance between hard bodied players who can do the hard stuff and cool heads who can keep control of a game. You also need a blend of youth, the hunger, the enthusiasm. That's what Geelong, Hawthorn, Brisbance (during the 3 peat) and Sydney have all managed to do. Loading up on good young players without the hard bodies to protect and guide them will consign us to one hit wonder status.

Herein lies how bad our list actually is. Picko, Morris & Smith should retire on injury alone. Based on not being picked, Roberts & Campbell should go. Based on playing poorly, at least Honeychurch should go. Based on not progressing over the last couple of years then Webb, Jong, Collins and Redpath have question marks (although some have contracts). So there's 6 leaving aside free agents who may or may not wish to explore their options.

But the flip side is we have one pick inside the top 40 in a strong draft, having given pick 23 to Carlton And not nearly enough to purchase West & Khamis in draft points without taking deficits into future years where we have possible top kids. So how do we actually get enough talent in when having the fifth pick in each round (except second)? We have to do something to bring talent in and these guys look the most likely.

Ideally there would be another scenario, but the list is in such awful state that I just can't see how we are meant to bring in new talent when despite finishing poorly this year we are left with one pick inside 40. I accept the point you make, we may look to delisted free agents, money ball trades or state league players. But Wallis & Roughy look on the wrong side of Bevo and Dahl is regressing badly. As I say, ideally there would be another way to address talent shortfalls and securing West & Khamis, but the list is just so bad that I can't see too any other option.

[Twodogs]

Didn't the AFL say that teams can just keep anticipating points from coming years for as many years into the future as they like? That sounds to me like we can spare the future points this year because we can effectilvely keep postponing paying back by borrowing points from the next year.

[Mofra]

I'm not sure contracts mean what they used to. And you have to give up something of value to get something of value. JJ is tradable in my estimation, for the right trade.
He has business interests in Victoria and resisted attempts to lure him back to WA. Why on Earth would he want to break his contract and head to SA, let alone Adelaide who have the worst player retention in the competition (yes on past years they just shade Brisbane)?

[Mofra]

Didn't the AFL say that teams can just keep anticipating points from coming years for as many years into the future as they like? That sounds to me like we can spare the future points this year because we can effectilvely keep postponing paying back by borrowing points from the next year.
Yes, and it sounds like we'll have two FS picks to consider next year which means we get 20% discounts on each. Any deficits we rack up this year might just be taken care of by 2019 discounts anyway, although I expect us to lose a couple of players to FA this year (Wallis and Roughy seem gone, and despite Dahl's desire to stay we may just be low-balling him to force his hand).

[Twodogs]

Yes, and it sounds like we'll have two FS picks to consider next year which means we get 20% discounts on each. Any deficits we rack up this year might just be taken care of by 2019 discounts anyway, although I expect us to lose a couple of players to FA this year (Wallis and Roughy seem gone, and despite Dahl's desire to stay we may just be low-balling him to force his hand).

It looks more and more that we will lose some FAs this off season. The club is virtually daring them to go.

[Ozza]

I think we need to play Roughead a lot between now and the end of the year. Get his 1st ruck numbers up, and fatten him up for Geelong to take him off our hands.

[Axe Man]

I think we need to play Roughead a lot between now and the end of the year. Get his 1st ruck numbers up, and fatten him up for Geelong to take him off our hands.

The trouble is he will likely hurt himself in 37 different ways between now and the end of the season.

[Mofra]

I think we need to play Roughead a lot between now and the end of the year. Get his 1st ruck numbers up, and fatten him up for Geelong to take him off our hands.
They're all over Lycett from WCE though. I know who'd I'd prefer.

[kruder]

Its an interesting conundrum we find ourselves in. If we want to keep pick 5 and get West and Khamis we obviously need to let a few go that are decent quality. What that means though is we may only have 3-4 picks after trading up for points( As GVGjr has discussed) which leaves quite a few players on our list that have big question marks against them.

Id prefer to keep Wallis and Dahl I think we can get both players back on track, but you need to give something to get something. Unfortunately Roughead won't be enough to get us back into the second round. Would Jong still have a little currency? 3rd rounder like Roughy? If we do go down this path its going to be more than refresh thats for sure but I have feeling Bevo is gonna play the long game.

[bornadog]

BULLDOGS CEO PROVIDES ROUGHEAD AND WALLIS UPDATE (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/06/18/bulldogs-ceo-provides-roughead-and-wallis-update/)


Western Bulldogs CEO Ameet Bains says the club is hopeful of retaining restricted free agents Jordan Roughead and Mitch Wallis.

Both players have been in and out of the senior squad this season and have found their names in the rumour mill, but Bains says no conversations have been had with Wallis about looking elsewhere.

“He clearly has got a strong Bulldog pedigree and is someone who is really popular within the football club,” he told SEN Breakfast about Wallis.

“It has been challenging for him at different times having been in and out of the side.

“We are hopeful that he can continue his upward trajectory with his form and really cement himself both for the reminder of the season and beyond.”

Bains also clarified comments made by coach Luke Beveridge in the media about Roughead’s future.

“I think what’s happened, a lot more direct questions are now asked of coaches at press conferences and certainly with respect to Roughy, I think Bevo’s starting point is we have been negotiating with his manager for a chunk of the season and want to retain him,” he said.

“It was more an expression of him being in and out of the side, and wanting him to find his best form in the context of helping the team, rather than his contract situation.

“It’s been a difficult period for him with his form.”

[bulldogtragic]

What about Dahl?

[bornadog]

What about Dahl?

Probably wasn't asked that question.

[Mofra]

Its an interesting conundrum we find ourselves in. If we want to keep pick 5 and get West and Khamis we obviously need to let a few go that are decent quality. What that means though is we may only have 3-4 picks after trading up for points( As GVGjr has discussed) which leaves quite a few players on our list that have big question marks against them.
Disagree. We can take each with our next available pick after they are nominated, and if we're in deficit we can take that into the 2019 draft.
We'll have two FS picks in 2019 as well so it's possible that two of our first three 2019 picks will attract the 20% discount as FS picks anyway which may well account for any deficit.

[Happy Days]

Wines just re-signed long term at Port - and given the structural change the AFL is ready to implement I'm not sure committing to a big-money inside mid would have been the best (or at least not a risk-aversive) decision anyway.

[Mofra]

Wines just re-signed long term at Port - and given the structural change the AFL is ready to implement I'm not sure committing to a big-money inside mid would have been the best (or at least not a risk-aversive) decision anyway.
He'll be their next captain and is a pure gun. He can hit the scoreboard too which not many inside mids can do regularly (e.g. Macrae and Libba).

[Dancin' Douggy]

This is going to need to be a huge trade year for us.

There are some huge holes in our playing list.
And some huge gluts.

I have deliberately left quite a few recent draftees out of this discussion as some of them are very good and some of them I don’t really have a handle on yet.

Nevertheless………..

We have a huge oversupply of mid-sized, mid-paced players with questionable foot skills.

3. Mitch Wallis
5. Josh Dunkley
6. Luke Dahlhaus
7. Lachie Hunter
14. Clay Smith
19. Lukas Webb
22. Mitch Honeychurch
24. Shane Biggs
46. Lin Jong

We have a surplus of tall defenders

2. Lewis Young
8. Jackson Trengove
12. Zaine Cordy
18. Fletcher Roberts
25. Marcus Adams
32. Kieran Collins
33. Aaron Naughton
38. Dale Morris

We have a swathe of rebounding defenders.

Matthew Suckling
9. Hayden Crozier
10. Easton Wood
20. Ed Richards
34. Bailey Williams
39. Jason Johannisen.

And ruck men? Not too many, but one that never gets a game (Campbell) and one (Boyd) who I think should be played as a permanent forward.

15. Tom Campbell
17. Tom Boyd
23. Jordan Roughead
44. Tim English

We simply can’t maintain this list profile and be competitive.

We lack genuine foot speed and foot skills, and we have no small menacing goalsneaks.

We need to lose some from each of these groups, although I’d keep all the players in the rebounding defenders group unless we get a big offer for Johanissen. And frankly, since he won the Norm Smith he’s been playing a pretty selfish, show pony, unaccountable, ‘look at me’ and look at my ‘crazy hairstyle’ game. It’s starting to wear pretty thin with me. Particularly his insistence on demanding the ball from someone having a set shot and then proceeding to miss time and time and time again. And I guess we’re stuck with Crozier for the time being. Let’s hope he continues to improve. And as far as the ruck group goes, I think Campbell probably deserves more game time than he’s getting. So for his own sake he probably wants to move on.

The top group is the hardest. I’d hate to trade out any father/sons. I just don’t like the look/feel of it. And I still think there’s a lot of talent in Hunter. And Wallis is a very reliable meat and potatoes type. Actually not bad by foot, pretty reliable as a set shot, just not a long strong kick, and we need guys who can break lines with their kicking. But I know Wallis bleeds red white and blue and I would hate to see him in another guernsey. I’ll say right here and now, to me he’s a definite keeper.

Honeychurch is a no brainer. Delist or trade.

Biggs is so hopelessly out of form it’s delist or trade.

Smith should retire I think while his knees will still let him walk.

And Jong, I’m just afraid he’s surplus to our needs in that group. Even when fit and in the team he doesn’t provide us with what we really need. Yeah he’s strong and fast and brave, but he still can’t kick well consistently, and if he was the only one who couldn’t kick well, you could carry him. Unfortunately he’s in a conga line of guys who can’t kick. I actually love him, but this is about logic and strategy, we can’t be too touchy feely.

Dahlhaus is a pretty important figure at the club marketing wise, and if he was moved on it would be a very unpopular move. VERY unpopular. But gee his kicking has gone so far backwards, that he’s almost literally kicking backwards these days. He can’t make the distance on a set shot from 30 metres out. If someone threw a big offer down and we could get the free agency………………geez you’d have to consider it. We simply need to weed out some of these types.

I’d even let Dunkley go if someone came after him with a decent offer.

Webb. Maybe better by foot than the rest, but little or no trade value, and just doesn’t get the ball enough in his senior appearances.

We need to cull 4/5 players from that group.


Then there’s the tall defenders.

We simply have too many. But none of them are worth much on the open market except probably Naughton (and we’ll be keeping him of course.)

Roberts, definitely out. Retire or trade for peanuts.

Marcus Adams, good player but so often injured his trade value isn’t what he’s actually worth as a player. An offer from a WA club perhaps?

Kieran Collins? Maybe someone is still keen on him from his draft year performances but his trade worth is certainly not gonna be much.

Trengove we’re stuck with ala Crozier.

Morris. His last year? Maybe one more…just…but no trade there.

Young, no trade value and still an untapped talent. So keep.

Either way, we can’t keep them all on our list in my opinion.

We have pick 5 (pretty sure that won’t change) and we need points for West and Khamis.

We need pace and foot skills, pace and foot skills, pace and foot skills, rinse and repeat.

Please discuss

[kruder]

Disagree. We can take each with our next available pick after they are nominated, and if we're in deficit we can take that into the 2019 draft.
We'll have two FS picks in 2019 as well so it's possible that two of our first three 2019 picks will attract the 20% discount as FS picks anyway which may well account for any deficit.

Dont you need the points to take them at the pick they are nominated at? Its not as simple as taking them at your next pick. Thats the old rule your thinking of. We may be required to give up numerous selections to get both West and Khamis.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-21/new-bidding-system-introduced-for-fatherson-and-northern-academy-players

[kruder]

Dont you need the points to take them at the pick they are nominated at? Its not as simple as taking them at your next pick. .....

[Axe Man]

Webb. Maybe better by foot than the rest, but little or no trade value, and just doesn’t get the ball enough in his senior appearances.

Roberts, definitely out. Retire or trade for peanuts.

Both contracted for next year so unless we can facilitate a trade they are likely to remain on the list.

[Mofra]

Dont you need the points to take them at the pick they are nominated at? Its not as simple as taking them at your next pick. Thats the old rule your thinking of. We may be required to give up numerous selections to get both West and Khamis.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-05-21/new-bidding-system-introduced-for-fatherson-and-northern-academy-players
2015 was under the old rules - they've changed again since then.
You take the player nominated by a rival club at your next available pick (with a 20% discount applied) and if there's a resultant points deficit that deficit is applied to the same round in following year. This is the first year the new rule is applied from memory.

They had to change the rule as GWS banked a truckload of late picks to take their Academy kids (2016 to 2017), basically getting first round talent for a bunch of third and forth rounders.

On top of this, the AFL is considering a change to the future picks rule - two years ahead, not just one.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Both contracted for next year so unless we can facilitate a trade they are likely to remain on the list.

Well that certainly makes things difficult.

[LostDoggy]

2015 was under the old rules - they've changed again since then.
You take the player nominated by a rival club at your next available pick (with a 20% discount applied) and if there's a resultant points deficit that deficit is applied to the same round in following year. This is the first year the new rule is applied from memory.

They had to change the rule as GWS banked a truckload of late picks to take their Academy kids (2016 to 2017), basically getting first round talent for a bunch of third and forth rounders.

On top of this, the AFL is considering a change to the future picks rule - two years ahead, not just one.

It's going to be pretty exciting come draft night. Every pick that isn't West after about 12 and Kamis after 25 or so will feel lke a little win.

[Axe Man]

West and Khamis have played too well to fly under the radar so any chance we can start some vicious rumours about their character to lower their standing with other clubs? I've heard they like to punch puppies, kick kittens and wear socks with crocs.

[LostDoggy]

West and Khamis have played too well to fly under the radar so any chance we can start some vicious rumours about their character to lower their standing with other clubs? I've heard they like to punch puppies, kick kittens and wear socks with crocs.

It's frustrating that at the start of the season the 3 father sons that seemed to be getting the most attention were West, Fletcher and Blakey.

Fletcher and Blakey have both been tucked way for the season with injuries whilst West remains under the spotlight dominating the TAC for Vic metro(35 contested possessions in the past 2 games alone).....

[Happy Days]

He'll be their next captain and is a pure gun. He can hit the scoreboard too which not many inside mids can do regularly (e.g. Macrae and Libba).

Oh no doubt he's a stud - just that I think there is potential for his type of player, if not him specifically, to become less of a dominant asset should zoning become a factor in next year's AFL.

On the other hand, I think another flow-on effect of zones is that the gunner with horrific skills could be back - does anyone have Brett Peake's number?

[kruder]

2015 was under the old rules - they've changed again since then.
You take the player nominated by a rival club at your next available pick (with a 20% discount applied) and if there's a resultant points deficit that deficit is applied to the same round in following year. This is the first year the new rule is applied from memory.

They had to change the rule as GWS banked a truckload of late picks to take their Academy kids (2016 to 2017), basically getting first round talent for a bunch of third and forth rounders.

On top of this, the AFL is considering a change to the future picks rule - two years ahead, not just one.

You sure? The Saints bid on Naish last year at pick 34, then Richmond had to use picks 53 and 55 the equivalent points including the discount to match the bid. So your saying they changed it for this year? I read an article in the age this year that also states

this.https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-draft-pool-drained-by-academies-20180502-p4zcxn.html

Finally found what your talking about changed in 2016 you cant hold more draft picks than spots on your primary list. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/no-more-hidden-picks-afl-alters-the-draft-bidding-system-20160822-gqyilj.html

You can use two draft picks to accumulate points and then they give you an extra pick at the end of the draft. As discussed its going to be a challenge for us with a chance of us having to use potentially 4 picks on 2 players.

[Mofra]

You sure? The Saints bid on Naish last year at pick 34, then Richmond had to use picks 53 and 55 the equivalent points including the discount to match the bid. So your saying they changed it for this year? I read an article in the age this year that also states

this.https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-draft-pool-drained-by-academies-20180502-p4zcxn.html

Finally found what your talking about changed in 2016 you cant hold more draft picks than spots on your primary list. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/no-more-hidden-picks-afl-alters-the-draft-bidding-system-20160822-gqyilj.html

You can use two draft picks to accumulate points and then they give you an extra pick at the end of the draft. As discussed its going to be a challenge for us with a chance of us having to use potentially 4 picks on 2 players.
That appears right, I think I've mis-read the points-deficit article from earlier this year, apologies.

[Bulldog Joe]

Well that certainly makes things difficult.

You can still delist a contracted player, if you can`t find a trade.

You then have an option to redraft (main or Rookie) or simply pay out the contract and have them move on.

For Roberts, I would definitely delist to make space and redraft as a rookie if there were no other takers.

[Axe Man]

You can still delist a contracted player, if you can`t find a trade.

You then have an option to redraft (main or Rookie) or simply pay out the contract and have them move on.

For Roberts, I would definitely delist to make space and redraft as a rookie if there were no other takers.

Doesn't happen very often without some sort of behavioral issue does it? When was the last time we delisted a contracted player?

[Twodogs]

Doesn't happen very often without some sort of behavioral issue does it? When was the last time we delisted a contracted player?

Trav Cloke had a contract for this year when we shafted him.

[Axe Man]

Trav Cloke had a contract for this year when we shafted him.

True. Probably a slightly different case though. Don't expect Roberts for example would accept that deal like Cloke did.

[Twodogs]

True. Probably a slightly different case though. Don't expect Roberts for example would accept that deal like Cloke did.

He'd be mad to do that. Although he doesn't seem close to a recall to the AFL team at the moment.

[bornadog]

He'd be mad to do that. Although he doesn't seem close to a recall to the AFL team at the moment.


He should have come in this week as we have a lack of defenders. :D:D:D

[Rocket Science]

It's probably just the echo chamber doing what it does to create newsworthy noise but a few in the meeja today running with Mitch Wallis to Brisbane as all but done.

[bulldogtragic]

It's probably just the echo chamber doing what it does to create newsworthy noise but a few in the meeja today running with Mitch Wallis to Brisbane as all but done.

Stevo two weeks ago said it was Essendon... Or... Maybe they've had a huge bidding war and our FA compo will be pick 24... (For Rhylee West)

[bulldogtragic]

Is there anyone completely confident, I mean 100%, no doubt, hand on heart, swear to god, that Honeychurch won't get delisted and Roarke Smith won't get another year either rookie or main list?

My post history shows I wanted them both gone last year, but since they're getting games off poor form, I think there's a good chance of these coach favourites eking out another year.

[mjp]

He should have come in this week as we have a lack of defenders. :D:D:D

Think back to the 2008-10 prelim teams where we had ZERO key defenders (well, we had Brian Harris/Lake and no-one else)...imagine if we could do a time-machine trade:

Adams from now back to 2008 to help vs Reiwoldt/Kozischtke. Daniel Cross coming back the other way to provide some ball winning/link up play through the midfield in 2017/18.

[azabob]

Oh bloody hell BT you are a masochist. Unfortunately a good chance you are correct.

[bornadog]

Think back to the 2008-10 prelim teams where we had ZERO key defenders (well, we had Brian Harris/Lake and no-one else)...imagine if we could do a time-machine trade:

Adams from now back to 2008 to help vs Reiwoldt/Kozischtke. Daniel Cross coming back the other way to provide some ball winning/link up play through the midfield in 2017/18.

I actually like the fact we have so many young talls to fit into key roles, they are the future. We just need to get some more good mids and small goal kickers in and we are set.

[josie]

Agree BAD, historically we have always lacked good talls and during Eade and Wallace may have won the premiership with one or two more. I know game is changing but I still think they will be required, more so if zones introduced.

[KT31]

Sorry I meant to post this a couple of weeks back and it's not much different than what's been reported but it's to be late than never, from a reliable source -
- Clays cooked and knows it, loves the club, no grudges, wrapped he had a chance to play in a flag and now doing a pre apprenticeship course won't on the list next year.
- Wallis has had interest from a couple of clubs, loves the Dogs but needs us to commit to him getting a better crack.
- Dahl good as gone, other clubs offers are much better than we are prepared to match.
- Roughie no contract been offered as yet.

[Bulldog Joe]

He'd be mad to do that. Although he doesn't seem close to a recall to the AFL team at the moment.

He can be delisted and have his contract paid out.
Hawthorn did that with Mitch Thorp.

It counts against the salary cap, but frees a list space.
There is absolutely no purpose in keeping a player who you will never pick.

The same thing applies to Tom Campbell.

[EasternWest]

Sorry I meant to post this a couple of weeks back and it's not much different than what's been reported but it's to be late than never, from a reliable source -
- Clays cooked and knows it, loves the club, no grudges, wrapped he had a chance to play in a flag and now doing a pre apprenticeship course won't on the list next year.
- Wallis has had interest from a couple of clubs, loves the Dogs but needs us to commit to him getting a better crack.
- Dahl good as gone, other clubs offers are much better than we are prepared to match.
- Roughie no contract been offered as yet.

Thanks KT. A bit sad about Clay - but what a halcyon period he had after some very tough times. Will he actually retire? I hope so, I don't like the idea of us "delisting" him.

Would prefer Wallis to stay. I'm comfortable with the rest.

[SonofScray]

Trying to think who are the 5 we should move on, but haven't thought to much about whether they are rookies etc.

1. Honeychurch
2. Campbell
3. One of Fletch (some trade value surely?) or Collins.
4. Clay Smith if he can't get on the park.
5. Dal taking up free agency

I'd be pleased to see Fletch stay to be honest. Good clubman and depth tall. The rest though, if they get moved on to find some good ball users and quick midfield, wingers that'd be good. Think we are light on in that dept.

[bornadog]

Trying to think who are the 5 we should move on, but haven't thought to much about whether they are rookies etc.

1. Honeychurch
2. Campbell
3. One of Fletch (some trade value surely?) or Collins.
4. Clay Smith if he can't get on the park.
5. Dal taking up free agency

I'd be pleased to see Fletch stay to be honest. Good clubman and depth tall. The rest though, if they get moved on to find some good ball users and quick midfield, wingers that'd be good. Think we are light on in that dept.

How about:

* Honeychurch
* Webb
* Jong

[SlimPickens]

How about:

* Honeychurch
* Webb
* Jong

Jongy stays for mine, has improved every year except this one (coming back from an ACL). Has plenty to offer

[LostDoggy]

Thanks KT. A bit sad about Clay - but what a halcyon period he had after some very tough times. Will he actually retire? I hope so, I don't like the idea of us "delisting" him.

Would prefer Wallis to stay. I'm comfortable with the rest.
I agree with this. I reckon our list can afford to lose 1 of Dahl or Wallis, but not both. Of the 2, I'd prefer to keep Wallis, a lot of leg breaks need 2 years to get over and he is still getting back to his best.

[Rocket Science]

Dahlhaus is the one we move on, for mine.

Admire what he's done and where he's come from but he simply carries too much on-field responsibility for a bloke who can find it but butchers it so flagrantly. You'd think he'd also fetch more than Wally by way of compensation.

Still think there's a role for Wally here.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Dahlhaus is the one we move on, for mine.

Admire what he's done and where he's come from but he simply carries too much on-field responsibility for a bloke who can find it but butchers it so flagrantly. You'd think he'd also fetch more than Wally by way of compensation.

Still think there's a role for Wally here.
Totally agree

[FrediKanoute]

Jongy stays for mine, has improved every year except this one (coming back from an ACL). Has plenty to offer

I get that and will cut him slack because of the knee, though I think if a club came knocking and it was a decent late 2nd early 3rd round pick on offer I would be inclined to do the deal and trade Jongy.

[bornadog]

I get that and will cut him slack because of the knee, though I think if a club came knocking and it was a decent late 2nd early 3rd round pick on offer I would be inclined to do the deal and trade Jongy.

Me too.

[Ozza]

I get that and will cut him slack because of the knee, though I think if a club came knocking and it was a decent late 2nd early 3rd round pick on offer I would be inclined to do the deal and trade Jongy.

I don't wish to be unfair on Jongy, and note that he is coming off a knee, but I can't help but think about him being offered 3 years at Collingwood during 2016...might have worked out better for both parties.

[azabob]

I don't wish to be unfair on Jongy, and note that he is coming off a knee, but I can't help but think about him being offered 3 years at Collingwood during 2016...might have worked out better for both parties.

This is a regular occurrence though. So not surprising.

[FrediKanoute]

This is a regular occurrence though. So not surprising.

Personally, I thought he should have gone. As good as his hardness at the ball is, he butchers it when he gets it. His decision making is not convincing.

[SonofScray]

How about:

* Honeychurch
* Webb
* Jong I'd keep Jong. Webb would be in the mix for sure, not impressed with his progression at all.

[Bullies]

I haven't seen heaps of him but I believe he has good pace, can carry the ball, break lines and use it pretty well. Certainly no star which is why he might be get-able. I think he has frustrated Cats supporters a bit by showing some really good signs but then not producing it consistently. Will watch with interest when he returns from injury in the coming weeks. We could do with someone like Guthrie. Big body as well. Hard at it and good finisher.

[Bulldog Joe]

Mullenger-McHugh seems to be on the improve, with his best game against North at the weekend.

I had a report, from a regular Footscray watcher, that we should keep him on the list.

Is anyone, who gets to see him play, keen to retain him.

[bornadog]

Mullenger-McHugh seems to be on the improve, with his best game against North at the weekend.

I had a report, from a regular Footscray watcher, that we should keep him on the list.

Is anyone, who gets to see him play, keen to retain him.

This is his second year as a Rookie, so if the rules are still the same we have to let him go and try and re-rookie or upgrade to seniors.

[Axe Man]

This is his second year as a Rookie, so if the rules are still the same we have to let him go and try and re-rookie or upgrade to seniors.

Since when? It's always been 3 years on the rookie list - Brad Lynch is in his third year.

[bulldogtragic]

This is his second year as a Rookie, so if the rules are still the same we have to let him go and try and re-rookie or upgrade to seniors.

You can keep one 3rd year rookie from memory.

[Bulldog Joe]

Since when? It's always been 3 years on the rookie list - Brad Lynch is in his third year.

Correct.
We can add a 3rd year if the player agrees.
Roarke Smith is in year 4 and he was delisted and re-rookied I believe.

[bornadog]

Since when? It's always been 3 years on the rookie list - Brad Lynch is in his third year.

My mistake, I thought it was two

[Mofra]

My mistake, I thought it was two
The rules change so often there's no problem in missing one loophole in the two year rule as it's only one rookie we can keep for a third, not all of them.
Gowers looks set to be upgraded, I wonder what happens to Roarke? The club have invested a lot of time in him and they clearly rate him so it looks like we could have two rookie upgrades on the cards.

[GVGjr]

Mullenger-McHugh seems to be on the improve, with his best game against North at the weekend.

I had a report, from a regular Footscray watcher, that we should keep him on the list.

Is anyone, who gets to see him play, keen to retain him.

I'd be happy enough to retain him as a rookie. It depends on some other changes as well.

[kruder]

Twomey mentioned the conundrum we have with having pick 5 and next pick falling at 41 with West and Khamis on the radar. He has obviously been reading woof ha its gonna be interesting how we handle it thats for sure.

[Axe Man]

Some rubbish in here from David King, but anyway...

Western Bulldogs 2018 trade guide: Who should the Dogs chase this off-season? (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/western-bulldogs/western-bulldogs-2018-trade-guide-who-should-the-dogs-chase-this-offseason/news-story/5f851615a0cc10711c033fb969340096)

It has certainly been bizarre.

After winning a premiership just 40 games ago, the Western Bulldogs are now consistently the youngest selected team each round.

Luke Beveridge is engaging in a mini-rebuild and the exposed young talent on show has significant potential.

Aaron Naughton, Ed Richards, Patrick Lipinski, Tim English, Billy Gowers and Bailey Williams are adapting to AFL football with haste.

Combine these types with Jackson Macrae, who was in Brownlow Medal conversations prior to injury, Marcus Bontempelli, Toby McLean, Lachie Hunter and Jason Johannisen in another 40-50 games and look out.

The Bulldogs will need better seasons from Caleb Daniel going forward and Tom Liberatore, who has been sorely missed this season, will be the club’s best recruit in 2019.

Currently the Dogs have pick 5 and then their next pick is in the third round.

I’d imagine if this is a reset then trading for mid-tier draft picks would be desirable. It was rumoured that Luke Dahlhaus was potentially attainable but there’s grey area in that discussion. Mitch Wallis is likely to vacate but the Bulldogs will receive nothing in return as he’s a free agent.

How crippling is the Tom Boyd contract? Time will tell.

The draft has been a happy hunting ground for the Western Bulldogs over the recent years and you’d expect that will be the course navigated at season’s end.

Beware the Dogs of 2020.

HARRISON REID PREVIEWS THE DOGGIES’ OPTIONS

IN PLAY
1. Mitch Wallis

Age: 25

Games in 2018: 9

Still belongs at AFL level, yet has found himself fighting for senior selection in the VFL multiple times this year. At his best, he slots into most, if not every midfield in the competition, so he has value on the market.

2. Tom Campbell

Age: 26

Games in 2018: 0

With 13 other key-position players 193cm or over on the Dogs’ list, including five who have played roles in the ruck, Campbell’s spot is unnecessary. Still only 26 though, and could find a new home which needs ruck depth.

3. Jordan Roughead

Age: 27

Games in 2018: 5

Luke Beveridge caught the footy world by surprise when he threw the ruckman’s future at the Kennel into doubt earlier in the year. But given five appearances in the VFL already and with Tim English in the wings, the coach’s doubt may have had significant substance.

BUY BUY BUY
1. Rhylee West

Age: 17

Club: Calder Cannons (TAC Cup)

The son of Bulldogs great Scott West was among Vic Metro’s best again at the weekend and looks likely to attract a first round bid from a rival club. Dogs will match the bid to secure the talented midfielder.

2. Rory Sloane

Age: 28

Games in 2018: 4

Club: Adelaide

As time goes by a return home to Victoria looms as increasingly likely for Sloane, who would revive the Dogs’ depleted midfield if he chose Whitten Oval as his preferred destination. We’ve seen worse combinations than Sloane and The Bont.

3. Andrew Gaff

Age: 26

Games in 2018: 13

Club: West Coast

Looks set to stay at West Coast on a long-term contract, but if the Dogs could prize him out, his class would fill a gaping void in their midfield and until he has signed, he’s on the market.

WINS AND ROUNDABOUTS
Ex-Docker Hayden Crozier has added some class and precision distribution from half-back after overcoming a slow start to the season which was interrupted by injury. The Dogs will have to wait for a return in the investment they put into 20-year-old Josh Shache, who has only broken into the senior team in recent weeks and has yet to have an impact. The relationship between the club and Jake Stringer was broken after his exit interview last year so parting ways was inevitable, but Dogs fans will be frustrated to see Stringer finding glimpses of his All-Australian form at Essendon.

FANTASY QUICK FIX
With a list decimated by injury and thin midfield depth, a mid-season trading window could put out spotfires everywhere at the Bulldogs. Dom Sheed has fallen down the pecking order of a powerful midfield at West Coast and could easily walk into the Bulldogs’ midfield.

[Dry Rot]

Hawks clear cap space for Lynch and Sloane

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-04/hawks-clear-cap-space-for-lynch-and-sloane

Any interest in us getting Paul Puopolo?

[GVGjr]

Hawks clear cap space for Lynch and Sloane

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-04/hawks-clear-cap-space-for-lynch-and-sloane

Any interest in us getting Paul Puopolo?

Not for me. Lets focus on the draft and if we have to a youngish player from another side. Puopolo is about 5 years older than what we now need.

I can see us delisting/trading 8 players off the senior list and then potentially adding 3 via rookie list promotions (Smith, Gowers and Lynch) That would have us drafting 4 players which would consist of Pick 5, West and Khamis, and probably someone like Rueben William leaving one spot for a FA or a younger player from another club or a state league player.
Developing our our own players should be our focus.

I've rushed this but potentially it could be something like:

Out of contract players are: Liberatore, Wallis, Dahlhaus, Morris, C.Smith, Biggs, Dickson, Honeychurch, Jong, Collins, Greene

Outs: Campbell, Biggs, Jong, Dickson, C.Smith, Honeychurch, Collins*, Greene*
Re-signed: Liberatore, Wallis, Suckling
Promoted: Gowers, Lynch, R.Smith
Uncertain: Dahlhaus, Roughead, Morris, Picken, Webb**, Roberts**, Mullenger-McHugh
* Offered Rookie List spot
** Have contracts for 2019 but might have some trade interest.

I'm in no hurry to lose Collins or Greene.

[westbulldog]

How do you Vic woofers closer to things rate Khamis ? I watched the Vic Metro v SA game on Fox yesterday and thought his game was only fair.

[bornadog]

How do you Vic woofers closer to things rate Khamis ? I watched the Vic Metro v SA game on Fox yesterday and thought his game was only fair.

I thought both Khamis and West didn't play well at all. They were both down on previous performances, so I wouldn't go by just the one game.

[GVGjr]

How do you Vic woofers closer to things rate Khamis ? I watched the Vic Metro v SA game on Fox yesterday and thought his game was only fair.

Khamis will be inconsistent. He still has a lot to learn but I think he could be a solid player for us. His attacking instincts are very good.
West will be OK as well

[bulldogtragic]

Another poster mentioned that the crows apparently are very much into Young, a SA lad. Media reports state McGovern (190cm mid sized forward) wants to leave the crows and head to Victoria to play his footy. Both are contracted. I wonder if there's the nucleus of a trade here?

Would trading Young & 5 for McGovern & 8 fly? The crows may get a tad desperate in wanting the chance to land Rankine, and may lose McGovern no matter what, plus they land a local boy KPD off us. For us, Dickson is our only mid sized genuine forward, but his hammies make him unreliable to lock him into 16+ games next year. We've got Boyd, Schache & Redpath as KPFs but need another mid sized forward and some smalls. McGovern could fit. We have a long list of tall defenders, so we can afford to lose one for a player in need. We can still land a gun midfielder/forward at 8, plus an inside gun in West, Khamis a utility sized running defender and McGovern as a mid sized mature 1.5 goal a game forward covers a few areas of weakness. Trading 5 by us must result in us getting 'overs' or there's no point in doing it.

Interest in Young, whose contracted, is interesting for sure as to how we do anything to significant advantage in a trade.

[hujsh]

Another poster mentioned that the crows apparently are very much into Young, a SA lad. Media reports state McGovern (190cm mid sized forward) wants to leave the crows and head to Victoria to play his footy. Both are contracted. I wonder if there's the nucleus of a trade here?

Would trading Young & 5 for McGovern & 8 fly? The crows may get a tad desperate in wanting the chance to land Rankine, and may lose McGovern no matter what, plus they land a local boy KPD off us. For us, Dickson is our only mid sized genuine forward, but his hammies make him unreliable to lock him into 16+ games next year. We've got Boyd, Schache & Redpath as KPFs but need another mid sized forward and some smalls. McGovern could fit. We have a long list of tall defenders, so we can afford to lose one for a player in need. We can still land a gun midfielder/forward at 8, plus an inside gun in West, Khamis a utility sized running defender and McGovern as a mid sized mature 1.5 goal a game forward covers a few areas of weakness. Trading 5 by us must result in us getting 'overs' or there's no point in doing it.

Interest in Young, whose contracted, is interesting for sure as to how we do anything to significant advantage in a trade.

Would you trade McGovern and 8 for Young and 5 if you were Adelaide? I probably wouldn't

[bulldogtragic]

Would you trade McGovern and 8 for Young and 5 if you were Adelaide? I probably wouldn't

I wouldn't ordinarily, no. But 'if' I was desperate to land Rankine by pick 5 (likely to stay in SA indefinitely) and going to lose McGovern almost certainly to a Victorian team and I also wanted to secure Lewis Young (likely to stay in SA indefinitely), then I'd be putting all those things together and see what I can do. Dogs have pick 5 and Lewis young, things they really want. Crows have McGovern and pick 8, things we might demand back. That might not be the final trade, but both sides have things the other wants it appears.

[hujsh]

I wouldn't ordinarily, no. But 'if' I was desperate to land Rankine by pick 5 (likely to stay in SA indefinitely) and going to lose McGovern almost certainly to a Victorian team and I also wanted to secure Lewis Young (likely to stay in SA indefinitely), then I'd be putting all those things together and see what I can do. Dogs have pick 5 and Lewis young, things they really want. Crows have McGovern and pick 8, things we might demand back. That might not be the final trade, but both sides have things the other wants it appears.

Well I'd want at least a pick in the late teens low 20s as part of that. Exactly what we don't have and would be handy to have for draft points for West

[jeemak]

I think McGovern is going to command a late first rounder, Young as good as I think he will be is only going to command a late second rounder. He can't get a game in a poor team, albeit it one with plenty of taller defenders.

My view is any move he makes will likely help us secure points, that's it unfortunately. I see what BT is trying to do, and get that packaging picks together with players in deals should happen more often than it does, but low draft picks make recruiting managers and list managers a bit funny.

[bulldogtragic]

Well I'd want at least a pick in the late teens low 20s as part of that. Exactly what we don't have and would be handy to have for draft points for West

Then I'd very happily keep pick 5 & Young if they wanted something like that back. Pick 5 is ours, and Young is contracted. If they want SA talent we have/have access to then they have to pay overs. Keeping both pick 5 & Young is a very good thing for us.

[comrade]

Keep 5 & Young.

[bulldogtragic]

I think McGovern is going to command a late first rounder, Young as good as I think he will be is only going to command a late second rounder. He can't get a game in a poor team, albeit it one with plenty of taller defenders.

Any move he makes will likely help us secure points, that's it unfortunately.

That's not a bad way to look at it. Say MM is about pick 18, and say Young about pick 30. About a 12 pick differential. The question to Adelaide is if that 12 pick effective downgrade, is worth the upgrade from pick 8 into pick 5 (Rankine) and both players being SA boys unlikely to leave. If that top 10 upgrade is worth equal to, or more than the effective 12 pick differential in players, in the eyes of the crows list manager/recruiters then maybe they're prepared to do something. If it's not, it dies a natural death in this thread.

[Throughandthrough]

My postman just rang, expect whole sale cuts and trades at whitten oval at the end of the season. Too many party boys Don’t be surprised if Biggs and Dahlhaus are elsewhere next year.

[jeemak]

My postman just rang, expect whole sale cuts and trades at whitten oval at the end of the season. Too many party boys Don’t be surprised if Biggs and Dahlhaus are elsewhere next year.

SHOCKED! I mean really, are we surprised?

[ratsmac]

I'd personally like to keep Young. I see him as a possible athletic KPF more than a defender. He still lacks a bit of muscle atm but he is still young (not trying to be funny but if it is I'll take it). He's been played prominently in defense so far which is fine right now but I'd like to see him pushed up forward soon. He has a similar body shape to a Charlie Curnow and is a reasonable contested mark. He's no Curnow I know but given a decent run as a forward could have a good outcome. Plus we seem over stocked with defenders as well.

[divvydan]

Personally, I would see Young being at best a mid third rounder (40+), especially in a draft considered to be stronger than average. Given that, Adelaide would absolutely want more on top of 5 + Young for 8 + McGovern. Personally, if they were desperate for a top 5 pick, their two first round picks would probably get the job done and maybe a little more, depending on exactly where they and Melbourne finish. Currently they would have pick 8,11,19 and potentially McGovern/Sloane. That might end up being 8,9,12,20 and say 18ish for McGovern, which would easily get them a very early pick with plenty left over.

[Mofra]

My postman just rang, expect whole sale cuts and trades at whitten oval at the end of the season. Too many party boys Don’t be surprised if Biggs and Dahlhaus are elsewhere next year.
I'd imagine Redpath is in that group too.

I like Biggsy's instagram and he'll always be a GF legend but right now quite a few players have gone past him in the back half and even Roarke Smith's game against Geelong would have him ahead.

[Sedat]

Would trading Young & 5 for McGovern & 8 fly? The crows may get a tad desperate in wanting the chance to land Rankine, and may lose McGovern no matter what, plus they land a local boy KPD off us.
I couldn't sign off on that deal quick enough if given the opportunity. If Young has suitors now he may not have any in 12 months' time. McGovern is a known quantity and will improve ANY team in the competition, and is still very much in the right age profile with his best footy ahead of him.

Adelaide want Rankine desperately and might well be tempted to do such a deal to land the pick to get him, especially if they rate Young.

[Happy Days]

Not to diss your postie T&T, but would it really be that surprising if the fringe, out of contract defender and the guy with an all-but-confirmed offer from a rival club both left the club? Sounds like self-fulfilling prophecy, especially with a couple more probbo guys on our list in seemingly no danger.

[bornadog]

My postman just rang, expect whole sale cuts and trades at whitten oval at the end of the season. Too many party boys Don’t be surprised if Biggs and Dahlhaus are elsewhere next year.

According to Bevo today in his press conference, Biggs is a required long term player. Who knows.

[Cyberdoggie]

According to Bevo today in his press conference, Biggs is a required long term player. Who knows.

Unless he plays like he did against Port Adelaide again. :)

[soupman]

According to Bevo today in his press conference, Biggs is a required long term player. Who knows.

Does three months count as long term? It would for an injury. I guess that confirms it, he's gone.

[Axe Man]

According to Bevo today in his press conference, Biggs is a required long term player. Who knows.

That's like saying the coach has the full support of the board.

[bornadog]

does three months count as long term? It would for an injury. I guess that confirms it, he's gone.


that's like saying the coach has the full support of the board.

Very funny

[Twodogs]

That's like saying the coach has the full support of the board.

First thing I thought too but Bevo actually seems to mean it when he says stuff like that. One thing about our coach is that he doesn't just mouth platitudes about players.

[Greystache]

First thing I thought too but Bevo actually seems to mean it when he says stuff like that. One thing about our coach is that he doesn't just mouth platitudes about players.

Given what he copped when he said Stringer needed to go you can be confident Bevo won't be telling the truth again in the near future.

[Greystache]

It's entirely reasonable Biggs is a delist candidate, but it's hard to believe he's the same guy who played 26 games in 2016, contributed well, who's last quarter repeat efforts encapsulated the type of commitment to the contest that won us a premiership, and who'll only be 27 at the start of next season.

It's really hard to believe how he's fallen.

[DOG GOD]

It's entirely reasonable Biggs is a delist candidate, but it's hard to believe he's the same guy who played 26 games in 2016, contributed well, who's last quarter repeat efforts encapsulated the type of commitment to the contest that won us a premiership, and who'll only be 27 at the start of next season.

It's really hard to believe how he's fallen.

He’s a shadow of the player from 2016.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Does three months count as long term? It would for an injury. I guess that confirms it, he's gone.


First thing I thought too but Bevo actually seems to mean it when he says stuff like that. One thing about our coach is that he doesn't just mouth platitudes about players.
Didn’t he say similar things about Dahl when rumours were swirling we were looking to move him? It’ll be interesting to revisit this once trade period is over

[Happy Days]

Just on Biggs - worth noting that he’s been rubbish for the first 2/3rds of seasons 2/3 years (3/4 counting this one) since he arrived at the club, and managed to turn it around and finish off those years very strongly.

[GVGjr]

According to Bevo today in his press conference, Biggs is a required long term player. Who knows.

A contract announcement should quickly follow if Bevo is on the mark. I can't imagine there are a number of suitors for Biggs so he would be keen to get a deal done

[ledge]

If we are keeping Biggs no way known is Wallis leaving.

[GVGjr]

I'd personally like to keep Young. I see him as a possible athletic KPF more than a defender. He still lacks a bit of muscle atm but he is still young (not trying to be funny but if it is I'll take it). He's been played prominently in defense so far which is fine right now but I'd like to see him pushed up forward soon. He has a similar body shape to a Charlie Curnow and is a reasonable contested mark. He's no Curnow I know but given a decent run as a forward could have a good outcome. Plus we seem over stocked with defenders as well.

I'd certainly be in no hurry to trade Young unless he was genuinely looking for opportunities elsewhere. I'm also not certain that McGovern, despite his talent, would be a player I'd be chasing. I think it's unlikely he would want to come to us as we wouldn't be seen as a club who can currently offer a certain finals opportunity to him.

That being said, talks of our pick 5 and Young for McGovern and their pick 8 is highway robbery for us.

Adelaide would be right to argue that McGovern and their pick 19 for our pick 5 and Young would be a lot closer to the mark and even then it's not clear if that is fair value.

Adelaide are very likely to get first round compensation for losing Sloane and with 2 first round picks already could package something up for a crack at a top 2 pick if they are desperate enough to get one of their local boys.
To make any trade to position themselves for Lukousis or Rankine they need to get a pick ahead of the Suns who will also get a significant compensation when their Tom Lynch departs. Our pick 5 is in reality pick 6 and I don't think that is tempting enough for the Crows unless it's a straight up swap for McGovern and a sweetener and I don't think we can't do that.

As Comrade said, lets keep Young and our pick (unless there is a great deal on the table)

[Testekill]

Clay Smith wrote an artcle and, this may be reading between the lines, it looks very likely that he's considering retirement.

[bulldogtragic]

I was just looking up some info on Tory Dickson.

In summary: Shortly 31 years old. Only 14 games across 2017 & 2018 combined (14 out of a possible 37 games) for 15 goals. Currently out for at least another three weeks and might not get back into the seniors before the year is out. And, he is out of contract.

Is his body telling us to call his career with us a day? Or his is fitness and health being managed poorly, and should therefore be given another year contract to find fitness and form not seen since 2016?

[DOG GOD]

I was just looking up some info on Tory Dickson.

In summary: Shortly 31 years old. Only 14 games across 2017 & 2018 combined (out of a possible 37 games) for 15 goals. Currently out of contract.

Is his body telling us to call his career with us a day? Or his is fitness and health being managed poorly, and should therefore be given another year contract to find fitness and form not seen since 2016?

I hate to say it as I’m a fan, but I think his time is up...too many soft tissue injuries, which causes pace to decrease and become a player not genuinely in our best 22. A one year contract or nothing for mine.

[Testekill]

I was just looking up some info on Tory Dickson.

In summary: Shortly 31 years old. Only 14 games across 2017 & 2018 combined (14 out of a possible 37 games) for 15 goals. Currently out for at least another three weeks and might not get back into the seniors before the year is out. And, he is out of contract.

Is his body telling us to call his career with us a day? Or his is fitness and health being managed poorly, and should therefore be given another year contract to find fitness and form not seen since 2016?

Endless soft tissue injuries are sadly indicative that your body can't hold up anymore.

[jeemak]

Depending on how he finishes the season, how committed he is and how he feels about his body. All things going well he’s still a quality goal kicker, an extension of one year is ok with me.

Gun servant of the club. His prelim and GF were amazing.

[bulldogtragic]

I’m starting to nail things down now:

Retire: Smith (inj), Picken (inj), Dickson (inj)
Out: Campbell (won’t get played), Biggs (trade or delist), Honeychurch (delist)
FA: Roughy (doesn’t seem in plans), Dahl (big money from Geelong)

So 8 out. Factoring in compo we fill them with:

Pick 5, West, Khamis, picks 59 & 60 & 78 (2 possible NGAs), upgrade Gowers & Lynch.

Keep NMM as a third year rookie, not sure on Smith but Bevo would support him staying on. So perhaps 2 rookie spots to be filled at pick 5 & 23 in the RD. Might need a state league ruckman for depth.

Meaning an extension to Morris, Greene, Collins, Libba, Suckling, Jong & Wallis (although Stevo says he’s gone)

I would listen to offers generally on some players without shopping them to see if it’s a good trade otherwise no.

[macca]

Agree on listening to offers of players without shopping them around.

I would cut a bit deeper, as we can afford to since not in the premiership window next year.

Trade out : Webb, Redpath . Carlton need some mature bodies.

Bring in another major player who can't get a game in one of the top 4 -6 teams. Someone big bodied like a Mitch Robinson type.

Can we pickup a 5th rookie?

We need to find mature type another in the Tim kelly/Fristch/Gowers/Ronke in the state leagues. Welcome any suggestions ?

Will Hayes - rookie ?

[bornadog]

Agree on listening to offers of players without shopping them around.

I would cut a bit deeper, as we can afford to since not in the premiership window next year.

Trade out : Webb, Redpath . Carlton need some mature bodies.

Bring in another major player who can't get a game in one of the top 4 -6 teams.

Can we pickup a 5th rookie?

We need to find another in the Tim kelly/Fristch/Gowers/Ronke in the state leagues.

I think you can have 6 on rookie list

[macca]

I think you can have 6 on rookie list
thanks, found the AFL link.
my suggestion:

Rookie: NMM, Smith, Hayes... (3) rookie spots remaining

+ Rookie Category B : can add 3 players

In addition to these six rookie-listed players, each club can include up to three additional players (now referred to as Category B rookies) on its Rookie List provided the player either:

• has not registered in an Australian Football competition for three years immediately before inclusion on the Rookie List;
• is an international player, meaning he is not an Australian citizen and has not lived in Australia for a substantial period;
• is a former NSW Scholarship player with that club;
• is a former International Scholarship player with that club;
• is a rookie Zone Selection for clubs based in NSW or Queensland.

source:

http://www.afl.com.au/afl-hq/the-afl-explained/rookie-players

[Twodogs]

Thanks for posting that macca.

So we can have 6 normal rookies and 3 category 3 Rookies? Up to 9 Rookies? Given the clubs in a good financial position I'd love to see us do just that sort of thing.

[Axe Man]

If you have 6 rookies it means that you have 2 less on your primary list.

You can have 40 primary + 4 rookies, or 39 primary + 5 rookies, or 38 primary + 6 rookies.

Category B rookies are in addition to this (maximum of 3).

[bornadog]

If you have 6 rookies it means that you have 2 less on your primary list.

You can have 40 primary + 4 rookies, or 39 primary + 5 rookies, or 38 primary + 6 rookies.

Category B rookies are in addition to this (maximum of 3).

Thanks for clearing that up.

I think they will change this again next year.

[Pickenitup]

Sam Landsberger on fox footy tonight said we are into Sam Lloyd thoughts?

[GVGjr]

Sam Landsberger on fox footy tonight said we are into Sam Lloyd thoughts?

Good player, I would give this some consideration. Normally I wouldn't be against a suggestion like this but I think he is 28 and I'm not sure that fits our requirements now.

[Testekill]

Lloyd is a solid small forward and is an upgrade on most small forwards on our list. He'd at least offer more up there than Daniel & Honeychurch.

[Twodogs]

Lloyd is a solid small forward and is an upgrade on most small forwards on our list. He'd at least offer more up there than Daniel & Honeychurch.

Or Shane Biggs.

[Testekill]

Or Shane Biggs.


Ah but Biggs isn't a small forward. Bevo is just playing silly buggers or a prank on the footballing world as a whole.

[Mantis]

Good player, I would give this some consideration. Normally I wouldn't be against a suggestion like this but I think he is 28 and I'm not sure that fits our requirements now.

What makes him a good player? If he was a good player he's be playing regular senior footy.

Not sure we wan't top up again on 'fringe' players from other clubs given the limited success of Trengove & Crozier.

[Mofra]

What makes him a good player? If he was a good player he's be playing regular senior footy.
Richmond are flush for small forwards, hence Lloyd (and Shai Bolton) have struggled to get games.

He has natural goal sense which is a commodity in short supply on our list right now. I assume at 28 and out of the Tigers side he'd be cheap as chips.

[Axe Man]

Sam Landsberger on fox footy tonight said we are into Sam Lloyd thoughts?

Potential Dickson replacement if we think Tory's body is shot.

[azabob]

Concerns on Bolton’s application and desire for the tackles and pressure acts.

[jeemak]

He gets along at over a goal a game, is a mature player who knows what is required at the level, and is a natural forward.

I would be interested in him at the right price.

[Bullies]

We don't have too many smalls with the forward smarts and Lloyd would be a good fit. In a few years Lapinski/Dale will take over the role.

[The Pie Man]

Lloyd's undoubtedly fringe, but his numbers have been encouraging. Was named in Richmond's best vs North earlier this year with 24 touches and then was dropped 2 weeks later.

At the right price....mature bodies are ok...especially if we lose someone like Dahl.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I don't mind Lloyd on the cheap, but I hope we actually draft some quick small pressuring forwards. They seem to be there every draft and we have enough 'dead wood' we can cut, even if it means we are picking them from a draft range of 40+

[Mofra]

I don't mind Lloyd on the cheap, but I hope we actually draft some quick small pressuring forwards. They seem to be there every draft and we have enough 'dead wood' we can cut, even if it means we are picking them from a draft range of 40+
We're likely going to rookie two of them as NGA kids

[GVGjr]

Lloyd's undoubtedly fringe, but his numbers have been encouraging. Was named in Richmond's best vs North earlier this year with 24 touches and then was dropped 2 weeks later.

At the right price....mature bodies are ok...especially if we lose someone like Dahl.

I think that is the point, trading for someone like Lloyd might only be considered if we are losing someone like Dahlhaus otherwise drafting a youngster with that skill set could be a chance.

[Mofra]

I think that is the point, trading for someone like Lloyd might only be considered if we are losing someone like Dahlhaus otherwise drafting a youngster with that skill set could be a chance.
We're already one of the youngest lists in the competition. A mature player to add to the number of kids we'll bring in this year would be a help rather than a hindrance.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Lloyd is a solid small forward and is an upgrade on most small forwards on our list. He'd at least offer more up there than Daniel & Honeychurch.

Hes not a terrible player, but hes not really a small forward, hes actually a small in stature key position player

[GVGjr]

Hes not a terrible player, but hes not really a small forward, hes actually a small in stature key position player

I was just talking to a Richmond mate who thinks he is a good player but confirms he plays more like a taller player than a true small forward.

[Axe Man]

Hes not a terrible player, but hes not really a small forward, hes actually a small in stature key position player


I was just talking to a Richmond mate who thinks he is a good player but confirms he plays more like a taller player than a true small forward.

As I alluded to on the last page, to me he is a similar player to Dickson. A small/medium marking player with good goal sense, rather than a crumber/pressure forward.

[Twodogs]

As I alluded to on the last page, to me he is a similar player to Dickson. A small/medium marking player with good goal sense, rather than a crumber/pressure forward.

Like Brad Johnson.

[boydogs]

Like Brad Johnson.

Or Daniel Menzel, Luke Breust

I rate Sam Lloyd, and he's what we need

[ratsmac]

Or Daniel Menzel, Luke Breust

I rate Sam Lloyd, and he's what we need

He sounds like a moneyball type trade. I don't mind him either. Kicked a clutch goal to beat Sydney once if I recall correctly.

[Testekill]

I think we're all ready to wave Roughy goodbye.

[GVGjr]

As we continue to get further into the season I think it just reinforces the need to cut into the playing list harder than we have in quite a while. It's perplexing that a team that can play so well in 2015/16 can slide back as far as we have in 2017/18.

Retiring:
Clay Smith (confirmed)
Tory Dickson (strongly rumored)
Liam Picken (unless he comes good soon)

Prediction: Smith and Dickson depart, Picken stays on
My Thoughts: I'd try and talk Picken into retiring.

Free agents with question marks:
Mitch Wallis - Should be retained
Jordan Roughead - Does not appear to be in the plans
Luke Dahlhaus - Wanting a big contract

Prediction: Wallis 2 year deal, Roughead departs, Dahlhaus maintained on a 3 year incentive based deal
My Thoughts: As above but I'd be firm with Dahlhaus contract demands

Out of contract:
Dale Morris
Fergus Greene
Kieran Collins
Lin Jong
Matthew Suckling
Shane Biggs
Tom Liberatore
Tom Campbell
Mitch Honeychurch

Prediction: Morris, Jong, Suckling, Biggs and Liberatore receive contracts, Greene, Collins, Campbell and Honeychurch are delisted.
My Thoughts: Morris, Suckling, Biggs, Liberatore and Greene receive contracts, Jong, Collins*, Campbell and Honeychurch delisted
*Offered rookie spot

Contracted but with question marks:
Lukas Webb - He's been given some short term chances but hasn't made the most of them
Fletcher Roberts - Plenty of injuries to key defenders but Roberts has been largely ignored by the selection committee
Jack Redpath - Has Schache made Redpath more than expendable

Prediction: All 3 likely to be retained but if any clubs wants them they could be traded
My Thoughts: Webb finds another home, Redpath and Roberts maintained

Rookies:
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh - Coming along well but at best he could be retained
Roarke Smith - Has been given an extended run but isn't impressing
Brad Lynch - Has the right type of skills we need but he still has some weaknesses
Billy Gowers - Performed strongly

Prediction: NMM retained as a rookie and Lynch, Smith and Gowers promoted to the senior list
My Thoughts: Retain NMM, delist Smith, promote Lynch and Gowers

Overall:
Prediction: Club has 7 departures from the senior list, 8 if Picken retires. 3 players promoted
My Thoughts: Club has 9 departures from the senior list, 10 if Dahlhaus can't accept a reasonable offer with 2 players promoted.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm pretty close with you G. I think 8 off the primary list is what's needed at a minimum to turnover the list a bit more to make up for the lack of cutting previously. I think we can cover 8 without too much interruption to the side.

[bornadog]

Great assessment GVGjr. We have been turning over about 7 each year over the past few years but I think we might cut deeper this year as well as trade for some mature types in the their mid 20s.

[Bullies]

As we continue to get further into the season I think it just reinforces the need to cut into the playing list harder than we have in quite a while. It's perplexing that a team that can play so well in 2015/16 can slide back as far as we have in 2017/18.

Retiring:
Clay Smith (confirmed)
Tory Dickson (strongly rumored)
Liam Picken (unless he comes good soon)

Prediction: Smith and Dickson depart, Picken stays on
My Thoughts: I'd try and talk Picken into retiring.

Free agents with question marks:
Mitch Wallis - Should be retained
Jordan Roughead - Does not appear to be in the plans
Luke Dahlhaus - Wanting a big contract

Prediction: Wallis 2 year deal, Roughead departs, Dahlhaus maintained on a 3 year incentive based deal
My Thoughts: As above but I'd be firm with Dahlhaus contract demands

Out of contract:
Dale Morris
Fergus Greene
Kieran Collins
Lin Jong
Matthew Suckling
Shane Biggs
Tom Liberatore
Tom Campbell
Mitch Honeychurch

Prediction: Morris, Jong, Suckling, Biggs and Liberatore receive contracts, Greene, Collins, Campbell and Honeychurch are delisted.
My Thoughts: Morris, Suckling, Biggs, Liberatore and Greene receive contracts, Jong, Collins*, Campbell and Honeychurch delisted
*Offered rookie spot

Contracted but with question marks:
Lukas Webb - He's been given some short term chances but hasn't made the most of them
Fletcher Roberts - Plenty of injuries to key defenders but Roberts has been largely ignored by the selection committee
Jack Redpath - Has Schache made Redpath more than expendable

Prediction: All 3 likely to be retained but if any clubs wants them they could be traded
My Thoughts: Webb finds another home, Redpath and Roberts maintained

Rookies:
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh - Coming along well but at best he could be retained
Roarke Smith - Has been given an extended run but isn't impressing
Brad Lynch - Has the right type of skills we need but he still has some weaknesses
Billy Gowers - Performed strongly

Prediction: NMM retained as a rookie and Lynch, Smith and Gowers promoted to the senior list
My Thoughts: Retain NMM, delist Smith, promote Lynch and Gowers

Overall:
Prediction: Club has 7 departures from the senior list, 8 if Picken retires. 3 players promoted
My Thoughts: Club has 9 departures from the senior list, 10 if Dahlhaus can't accept a reasonable offer with 2 players promoted. there is no way they will sign Biggs again. His fall is massive. You dread the ball going anywhere near him at the moment and I think he feels the same.

[kruder]

Ahhhh sigh I don't like the thought of not having Dickson and Picken on the list by the end of the year. Crucial players in our premiership, our forward line and more importantly side is crying out for some experience.

Any thoughts of a best 22 player with experience that wont cost the earth? We cant afford to have another 3 year miss like Trengove but the idea was right. I think we need to have another crack at it.

[GVGjr]

there is no way they will sign Biggs again. His fall is massive. You dread the ball going anywhere near him at the moment and I think he feels the same.

I could live with him being moved on but Bevo has endorsed him so I think it's more likely than not he will be offered a deal

[GVGjr]

Ahhhh sigh I don't like the thought of not having Dickson and Picken on the list by the end of the year. Crucial players in our premiership, our forward line and more importantly side is crying out for some experience.



We are a mile off being back in contention with the real chance that we may not bounce back much next year if at all so with that in mind we need to be a bit harder on turning over the list. We will lose some good players no doubt.

[Bulldog Joe]

We are a mile off being back in contention with the real chance that we may not bounce back much next year if at all so with that in mind we need to be a bit harder on turning over the list. We will lose some good players no doubt.

While the results are disappointing, I'm not sure we are that far off. We have been consistently the youngest and least experienced team on the park EVERY week this year.

If we address the injury issues and keep more experienced players on the ground, we will be competitive again.

We do need to delist/trade anyone who is just clogging the list.

[GVGjr]

While the results are disappointing, I'm not sure we are that far off. We have been consistently the youngest and least experienced team on the park EVERY week this year.

If we address the injury issues and keep more experienced players on the ground, we will be competitive again.

We do need to delist/trade anyone who is just clogging the list.

The problem is the players we are likely to lose this year aren't going to change that point so if that is an accepted reason (I'm not sure that it should be) wouldn't the likely scenario be that we don't improve?

Imagine if we are to lose the experience of Dahlhaus, Roughead, Dickson, Picken and Smith with a question mark on Wallis won't that just add to youngest and inexperienced theme?

[Bulldog Joe]

The problem is the players we are likely to lose this year aren't going to change that point so if that is an accepted reason (I'm not sure that it should be) wouldn't the likely scenario be that we don't improve?

Imagine if we are to lose the experience of Dahlhaus, Roughead, Dickson, Picken and Smith with a question mark on Wallis won't that just add to youngest and inexperienced theme?

The addition of Liberatore, plus a full year from Wood and the added experience of Bontempelli, Johannisen, Macrae, Adams etc, does improve our experience.

I see it as vital to retain Wallis.

[ratsmac]

Sam Lloyd doing good things in the VFL. Admittedly weak opposition but still played well. Townsend might be another to keep an eye out for. He doesn't get a lot of the ball at AFL level, but when he does get it it's normally a goal.


http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL%20Tenant/AFL/Files/Images/RICH-header.pngState league affiliate: Richmond (VFL)This weekend: Richmond v North Melbourne - Saturday, July 14, 2.10pm, Holm Park Recreation Reserve
Tyson Stengle had a day out against the Kangaroos, with the exciting small forward, who is yet to play senior footy in 2018, bagging six goals.
Stengle also racked up 26 possessions in a best-on-ground- display.
Sam Lloyd did his favours of a senior recall no harm with a game-high 38 disposals, 10 inside 50s and a goal.
Connor Menadue (29 possessions, six inside 50s) was busy, so too was Jacob Townsend (24 touches, two goals)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We could do a lot worse than Townsend.

[craigsahibee]

Ahhhh sigh I don't like the thought of not having Dickson and Picken on the list by the end of the year. Crucial players in our premiership, our forward line and more importantly side is crying out for some experience.

Any thoughts of a best 22 player with experience that wont cost the earth? We cant afford to have another 3 year miss like Trengove but the idea was right. I think we need to have another crack at it.

Sadly Liam is done and the game has gone well and truly past Dickson. Let's develop the next Picko rather than trade.

[DOG GOD]

We could do a lot worse than Townsend.

I agree, hard at it, never shirks a contest and knows how to kick a goal.

[DOG GOD]

As we continue to get further into the season I think it just reinforces the need to cut into the playing list harder than we have in quite a while. It's perplexing that a team that can play so well in 2015/16 can slide back as far as we have in 2017/18.

Retiring:
Clay Smith (confirmed)
Tory Dickson (strongly rumored)
Liam Picken (unless he comes good soon)

Prediction: Smith and Dickson depart, Picken stays on
My Thoughts: I'd try and talk Picken into retiring.

Free agents with question marks:
Mitch Wallis - Should be retained
Jordan Roughead - Does not appear to be in the plans
Luke Dahlhaus - Wanting a big contract

Prediction: Wallis 2 year deal, Roughead departs, Dahlhaus maintained on a 3 year incentive based deal
My Thoughts: As above but I'd be firm with Dahlhaus contract demands

Out of contract:
Dale Morris
Fergus Greene
Kieran Collins
Lin Jong
Matthew Suckling
Shane Biggs
Tom Liberatore
Tom Campbell
Mitch Honeychurch

Prediction: Morris, Jong, Suckling, Biggs and Liberatore receive contracts, Greene, Collins, Campbell and Honeychurch are delisted.
My Thoughts: Morris, Suckling, Biggs, Liberatore and Greene receive contracts, Jong, Collins*, Campbell and Honeychurch delisted
*Offered rookie spot

Contracted but with question marks:
Lukas Webb - He's been given some short term chances but hasn't made the most of them
Fletcher Roberts - Plenty of injuries to key defenders but Roberts has been largely ignored by the selection committee
Jack Redpath - Has Schache made Redpath more than expendable

Prediction: All 3 likely to be retained but if any clubs wants them they could be traded
My Thoughts: Webb finds another home, Redpath and Roberts maintained

Rookies:
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh - Coming along well but at best he could be retained
Roarke Smith - Has been given an extended run but isn't impressing
Brad Lynch - Has the right type of skills we need but he still has some weaknesses
Billy Gowers - Performed strongly

Prediction: NMM retained as a rookie and Lynch, Smith and Gowers promoted to the senior list
My Thoughts: Retain NMM, delist Smith, promote Lynch and Gowers

Overall:
Prediction: Club has 7 departures from the senior list, 8 if Picken retires. 3 players promoted
My Thoughts: Club has 9 departures from the senior list, 10 if Dahlhaus can't accept a reasonable offer with 2 players promoted.

My thoughts...we need to cut DEEP

Retired- clay smith, Dickson and picken (best for his long term health)
Roughies and Dahl moved on

Wallis new contract
Morris 1 year contract

Fergus Greene- delisted
Kieran Collins- delisted
Lin Jong- contract
Matthew Suckling- contract
Shane Biggs- delisted
Tom Liberatore - contract
Tom Campbell- delisted
Mitch honeychurch - delisted

Webb - stays for depth
Roberts stays
Red path - traded if possible

Gowers/ r.smith/lynch - promoted
NMM - stays on as rookie

Collins to rookie list.

Out - csmith, Dickson, picken, Dahl, Roughead, Greene, Collins, Biggs, honeychurch, Campbell, redpath*

That’s 11 out if redpath gets traded

Gowers/ r.smith/ lynch come onto list.

Leaves 8 to come in if redpath gets traded or 7 if he doesn’t.

[GVGjr]

The addition of Liberatore, plus a full year from Wood and the added experience of Bontempelli, Johannisen, Macrae, Adams etc, does improve our experience.

I see it as vital to retain Wallis.

Banking on natural growth of the playing list is what we expected from a list that had gained finals experience in 2015/16 and it went nowhere. While it should help a bit it more or less comes down to attitude and effort.

And just getting games into some of the younger players won't necessarily lift us up the ladder. In real terms the players that are performing better than 2017 come down to Williams, McLean, Suckling and maybe a couple of others. The likes of Dale, Webb and Daniel have gone backwards this year and I wonder the impact of bringing players in to a side that is disorganised is having on some of our guys.

I think we have a lot of work in front of us. We hid behind the excuses of a supposedly 'late start' in 2017 and now injuries and inexperience in 2018 so I will be interested to see the approach we take of 2019 but I'm not sure we can be too confident that there will be an automatic bounce in 2019.

[kruder]

Sadly Liam is done and the game has gone well and truly past Dickson. Let's develop the next Picko rather than trade.

I just think we have enough young players considering we will add pick 5, West, Buku, Gowers and maybe Lynch to the list naturally. If we loose the players mentioned above there is no doubt there is some room for more best 22 experience. I'm still really bullish and I reckon finals are closer than they seem right now I wouldn't be going younger again.

[Bulldog Joe]

Banking on natural growth of the playing list is what we expected from a list that had gained finals experience in 2015/16 and it went nowhere. While it should help a bit it more or less comes down to attitude and effort.

And just getting games into some of the younger players won't necessarily lift us up the ladder. In real terms the players that are performing better than 2017 come down to Williams, McLean, Suckling and maybe a couple of others. The likes of Dale, Webb and Daniel have gone backwards this year and I wonder the impact of bringing players in to a side that is disorganised is having on some of our guys.

I think we have a lot of work in front of us. We hid behind the excuses of a supposedly 'late start' in 2017 and now injuries and inexperience in 2018 so I will be interested to see the approach we take of 2019 but I'm not sure we can be too confident that there will be an automatic bounce in 2019.

We have certainly had some disappointing players since 2016. Their is a lot of discussion around how many players to cut, but we are not going to improve by replacing experience with 18 y-o draftees.

I think we should see 6 to 8 players depart, with Smith and Picken both to retire. I would also retire Redpath despite the year on his contract. Tory Dickson needs to show he can get his body right.

Campbell and Roberts both need to go. Honeychurch has had enough chances and I can't see him taking us forward. Roarke Smith does not give me any reason to retain. There seem to be too many tall options to persevere with Collins.

There has been plenty of suggestion to trade Jong, but I would prefer to trade Daniel. Caleb is too limited in my view, while Lin deserves an opportunity to overcome the setbacks. He does take a good grab and has pace.

I want to keep Wallis, but am unsure of Dahlhaus. The decision must surely be based on dollars and I don't see Luke as worth the sort of money I have seen mentioned.

I would be content to retain Roughead, but only on minimum contract, based on him being the back up playing predominantly at Footscray.

[bulldogtragic]

The problem is the depth needed over two years (give or take who in which year), based on current performance and leaving trades and rookies aside:

2018: Picken, C. Smith & Dickson (all retired) - Campbell, Biggs, Honeychurch (delisted) - Roughead & Dahl (free agents) --- 8

2019: Morris (retired) - Roberts, Redpath, Webb, Collins, Porter, Greene & Jong (potentially delisted) --- 8

That could be as high as 14-16 spots turned over in two years potentially, leaving aside any trade requests out. That creates a fair few headaches about replacing them without too many speculative picks. We will have two high first rounders, plus three father/sons and maybe three NGA's chewing up mid range picks. So that's 8. Upgrade Gowers & Lynch. So that's 10 spots filled.

So we are facing 4-6 late to very late picks in two years. So I don't mind a speculative late pick, and if the rookie list is still around our speculative picks can be there with many vacancies. So we might have to put a lot more work into draft smokies and state league players, or maybe looking hard at free agency next year for maybe two or more players (ala Port last year). Next year as we won't be losing anyone of value next year, so not losing compo. A good year to buy. Which means putting some money away which we will save big on if this is part of our strategy. Of the gettable types (enough money...) there's Sexton, Swallow & Nicholls (GCS), Casboult (Carl), Tomlinson, Shiel, Haynes, Congilio & Buntine (GWS - hard up on the cap), Ellis (Richmond), Wingard (Port). Plenty of talent, and some depth types. If we could pick up two decent free agent sorts next year, we might only have just one or two late to very late picks for the next two years which would be ideal in not leaving a huge hole in years time if several speculative picks don't make the grade. Using free agency, highly sought after father/sons and likely academy sorts, on top of very high first round picks sounds like the strategy of a big club. Hopefully we do the cutting hard for two years, factor in the players we know we have first dibs on and then aggressively use free agency next year with a lot of salary freed up to balance the list and the list profile out without too much presence at the pick 80-100 range for two years running. Ideally a gun midfielder who can kick goals would be nice in that free agents list (assuming they remain unsigned), but need a better pitch to get them.

A fair bit for Sam Power to do.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Sounds like Picken will be on the list next season

[Axe Man]

The writing may be on the wall for Dickson.

Injuries could deny flag-winning Dog a new deal (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-07-17/injuries-could-deny-flagwinning-dog-a-new-deal)

PREMIERSHIP Bulldog Tory Dickson faces an uphill battle to win a new contract at Whitten Oval due to persistent injuries, says coach Luke Beveridge.

The 30-year-old has played just five games this season due his problematic hamstrings, and registered just nine games in 2017 because of abdominal, adductor and quad complaints.

A 40-goal season from Dickson in the Dogs' 2016 premiership campaign was vital to the club's success, but it appears injuries may have caught up with the goalsneak after 93 games and 153 goals.

Beveridge said Dickson was keen to put misfortune behind him and prove himself on the field.

"(Tory's) had tough 2017 and 2018 (seasons) because we just haven't seen enough of him, and he's had injury after injury, so it is frustrating for him," Beveridge said on Tuesday.

"He's due to come back into full training with the main group next Sunday when we play Port Adelaide in Ballarat, and then hopefully he plays a week after and squeezes a few games in by the end of the year.

"He's a lad that's given great service (to the club), but he's not a 22-year-old, so he's keen to get back and play a few games before the end of the year and work out a way forward beyond that."

Defensive playmaker Matt Suckling is another veteran battling injury, with the former Hawk missing the past month with an ongoing Achilles concern.

Suckling is also out of contract at season's end, but Beveridge expects the 30-year-old to play on next year.

"He's had both Achilles' nagging him over the past two years and we haven't had him at 100 per cent over that duration, which is unfortunate," Beveridge said.

"He's going to try and run this afternoon, and hopefully we can get a few games into him before the season is out.

"We're in talks with his management about 2019, so he'll keep going (next year)."

Beveridge also said Jack Redpath could miss the remainder of the season after the club registered the hulking key forward as indefinite on the club's injury list.

Added to the leadership group this season, the 27-year-old has only played two games due to problems with the knee he had reconstructed in 2016.

[Mofra]

I'd imagine we won't keep Dickson or Redpath given they struggle to get on the park. Redpath ruined by knee injuries, Dickson just breaking down. Shame as both are popular clubmen.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'd imagine we won't keep Dickson or Redpath given they struggle to get on the park. Redpath ruined by knee injuries, Dickson just breaking down. Shame as both are popular clubmen.

Power has his work cut out for him.

There are roughly 10-12 players who are right in the gun.

We won't be able to remove them all.

[Mofra]

Power has his work cut out for him.

There are roughly 10-12 players who are right in the gun.

We won't be able to remove them all.
I want to keep both Wallis and Dahlhaus so hopefully getting those two signatures cuts down Power's work post season.

There's probably 5 or 6 players who are an easy decision and two more (Picken and Morris) who will largely make their own decision, given Picken's contracted and both Bevo and Morris have expressed a desire to go around one more year (which I support).

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Let’s see. Here are the current contract status’:

2018:
Matt Suckling
Mitch Wallis
Luke Dahlhaus
Clay Smith
Tom Campbell
Tom Liberatore
Mitch Honeychurch
Jordan Roughead
Shane Biggs
Tory Dickson
Fergus Greene
Kieran Collins
Dale Morris
Lin Jong
Brad Lynch (R)
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (R)
Billy Gowers (R)
Roarke Smith (R)

2019:
Marcus Bontempelli
Lachie Hunter
Toby McLean
Fletcher Roberts
Lukas Webb
Josh Dunkley
Patrick Lipinski
Bailey Dale
Lewis Young
Bailey Williams
Caleb Daniel
Liam Picken
Jack Redpath
Hayden Crozier
Callum Porter

2020:
Easton Wood
Marcus Adams
Tim English
Jackson Trengove
Josh Schache
Aaron Naughton

2021:
Tom Boyd
Ed Richards
Zaine Cordy

2022:
Jack Macrae
Jason Johannisen

Of the 2018 list, we need to let go:
One of: Campbell or Roughead
Honeychurch

Smith has retired

Serious questions over Dickson, Collins, Biggs and Jong.

Greene deserves another crack. Of the rookies, NMM will most likely be let go. Lynch and Gowers to be upgraded and Smith a tough call.

That’s 10 potential list cuts right there with 3 potential rookie upgrades.

Assuming all 3 rookies are upgraded, that leaves 7 list spots to fill with not many (3?) useable draft picks.

That’s not even considering Redpath, Webb and Roberts who have contracts for next year but realistically could be offloaded. That puts it to 13 the number of potential cuts. I see Morris and Picken going on again.

If talk is real, how can we possibly let Dahl and Wallis go at the same time? A very interesting offseason awaits

[macca]

Looks like Tom Lynch is gone . Wish we were his club of choice . My bet collingwood or hawks are on the preference list

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/not-looking-great-suns-gloomy-on-lynch-retention-hopes-20180718-p4zs6g.html

[Grantysghost]

Looks like Tom Lynch is gone . Wish we were his club of choice . My bet collingwood or hawks are on the preference list

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/not-looking-great-suns-gloomy-on-lynch-retention-hopes-20180718-p4zs6g.html

I've heard Tigers. Not sure how that works but there you go. Have any historically smaller teams (Dogs, NM, Saints, Melbourne FC) attracted big name free agents or is it disproportionately favouring the bigger sides ? Suckling for us. Can't think of others. Hibberd maybe. North couldn't attract a pacemaker with a magnet.

[bulldogtragic]

Looks like Tom Lynch is gone . Wish we were his club of choice . My bet collingwood or hawks are on the preference list

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/not-looking-great-suns-gloomy-on-lynch-retention-hopes-20180718-p4zs6g.html

Richmond has been rumoured to be favourite, but that was before Cyril Rioli retired. Now the Hawks for next year will be freed of his wage, Burgoyne's wage & any residual from Ty Vickery being paid out this year to *!*!*!*! off/allowance that he would've stayed beyond the two years. That and any free cap, maybe even trading Schoenmakers or Landford out, gives them more than enough to match what Richmond could now. Plus there's a link with O'Meara too. If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on Hawthorn now. And God help us if he does, Roughy becomes second forward, Gunston third forward, Bruest fourth forward, Puopolo in the pocket as the fifth forward with the sixth forward rotating between Smith/Impey/McEvoy/Shiels/O'Meara. That's a lot of ways to score if they can get Lynch.

[Sedat]

Richmond has been rumoured to be favourite, but that was before Cyril Rioli retired. Now the Hawks for next year will be freed of his wage, Burgoyne's wage & any residual from Ty Vickery being paid out this year to *!*!*!*! off/allowance that he would've stayed beyond the two years. That and any free cap, maybe even trading Schoenmakers or Landford out, gives them more than enough to match what Richmond could now. Plus there's a link with O'Meara too. If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on Hawthorn now. And God help us if he does, Roughy becomes second forward, Gunston third forward, Bruest fourth forward, Puopolo in the pocket as the fifth forward with the sixth forward rotating between Smith/Impey/McEvoy/Shiels/O'Meara. That's a lot of ways to score if they can get Lynch.
Still a shit midfield, as evidenced by their stuttering season. Even with that forward line they are a bottom half of the top 8 team as best next year.

[bulldogtragic]

Still a shit midfield, as evidenced by their stuttering season. Even with that forward line they are a bottom half of the top 8 team as best next year.

Yep, I think they need to trade out some players which they've been reluctant to do. If they get Lynch, Tim O'Brien would attract some interest, Schoenmakers might also get interest, Will Landford likewise. If they can move these guys out, and work some magic, they should be able to get a midfielder of some OK repute, one way or another. Plus their pick 10 or so on a midfielder this year. It's still pretty this beyond Mitchell & O'Meara in the centre and Impey, Smith & Shiel rotating on the wings, but another ok type and maybe a big bodied ready to go midfielder at pick 10 (like Dunkley in his first year) then they might be able to wallpaper over the cracks. If they get injuries to their main gun mids, then that's where their list salary cap will be tied up 40-50% in a forward line with limited mids.

[Bullies]

Richmond has been rumoured to be favourite, but that was before Cyril Rioli retired. Now the Hawks for next year will be freed of his wage, Burgoyne's wage & any residual from Ty Vickery being paid out this year to *!*!*!*! off/allowance that he would've stayed beyond the two years. That and any free cap, maybe even trading Schoenmakers or Landford out, gives them more than enough to match what Richmond could now. Plus there's a link with O'Meara too. If I was a betting man, I'd put my money on Hawthorn now. And God help us if he does, Roughy becomes second forward, Gunston third forward, Bruest fourth forward, Puopolo in the pocket as the fifth forward with the sixth forward rotating between Smith/Impey/McEvoy/Shiels/O'Meara. That's a lot of ways to score if they can get Lynch. Hawks may not be as good you think. Roughy is struggling and Puopolo is a chance to be delisted at end of year. Gunston is nowhere near the player he was 2/3 years ago and as others have said the midfield is not the best. By all the talk Lynch will nominate Richmond. i think Hawks are fair way off being a power again.

[bulldogtragic]

Hawks may not be as good you think. Roughy is struggling and Puopolo is a chance to be delisted at end of year. Gunston is nowhere near the player he was 2/3 years ago and as others have said the midfield is not the best. By all the talk Lynch will nominate Richmond. i think Hawks are fair way off being a power again.

I hope you're right!! I just think if they get Lynch everyone else gets a lesser defender, much like when they had Buddy. If Richmond do land him, they will have the dynasty we could've or should've had. They will have to cut a few and a few will leave wanting more opportunities, so maybe there's a chance to get an OK player from them if we are interested in any.

[Mofra]

Hawks may not be as good you think. Roughy is struggling and Puopolo is a chance to be delisted at end of year. Gunston is nowhere near the player he was 2/3 years ago and as others have said the midfield is not the best. By all the talk Lynch will nominate Richmond. i think Hawks are fair way off being a power again.
Richmond, Hawthorn and Collingwood all seem confident in getting him.

Not sure how the Hawks could get him based on the picks they'll need, surely GCS will match any bid and force a trade. Richmond will have to work hard to get him given they lack picks and nobody wants to go to GCS.
Collingwood will struggle if they re-sign Moore, Sydney surely would have coughed up a first rounder for him which would give them more currency to trade with.

[bulldogtragic]

Richmond, Hawthorn and Collingwood all seem confident in getting him.

Not sure how the Hawks could get him based on the picks they'll need, surely GCS will match any bid and force a trade. Richmond will have to work hard to get him given they lack picks and nobody wants to go to GCS.
Collingwood will struggle if they re-sign Moore, Sydney surely would have coughed up a first rounder for him which would give them more currency to trade with.

Would you not just take the free agency compo, pick 3? Over maybe a first rounder this year and next (circa around 10-18). Pick 3 with Pick 2 is pretty juicy for them.

[Mofra]

Would you not just take the free agency compo, pick 3? Over maybe a first rounder this year and next (circa around 10-18). Pick 3 with Pick 2 is pretty juicy for them.
Pick 3 is pretty high, but they've said they want mature players and if they continuously develop then trade out players for high picks they'll end up going nowhere.

I expect they'll match then ask for a mixture of picks and players.

[Sedat]

Pick 3 is pretty high, but they've said they want mature players and if they continuously develop then trade out players for high picks they'll end up going nowhere.

I expect they'll match then ask for a mixture of picks and players.
Lin Jong for pick 2? He's comparable to Lachie Weller ;)

[jeemak]

What's the success rate of teams who have landed a big free agent?