The Moving/Rolling Trading & Delisting Thread 2018

[bornadog]

The Story so far - Senior List

Out: Clay Smith, Shane Biggs, Kieran Collins, Luke Dahlhaus,

In: Roarke Smith, Billy Gowers

Unsigned: Jong, Campbell, Roughead (exploring options), Honeychurch
Unsigned but indicated will, Wallis, Libba, Dickson

Have I missed anyone

[jeemak]

My son will be so upset. I've been trying to hint that he won't play at the Bulldogs anymore but he doesn't think it will happen. He's got his badge, his doll, his backpack and birthday cards. He is going to be devastated. I guess the Dahlhaus Clubhouse is closed. :(

I guess it's one of those instances when the cold hard light of day of being a Bulldogs supporter will build his character, and I'm sure he'll respond to the logic of the situation mate! :)

Good luck!

[Happy Days]

Dahl leaving is a lot like Stringer leaving - it's probably the right call, but it's a total bummer and it wasn't meant to be like this. It's not good or bad, just sad.

[jeemak]

Dahl leaving is a lot like Stringer leaving - it's probably the right call, but it's a total bummer and it wasn't meant to be like this. It's not good or bad, just sad.

Chin up mate.

With time you'll understand..........

[ledge]

The Story so far - Senior List

Out: Clay Smith, Shane Biggs, Kieran Collins, Luke Dahlhaus,

In: Roarke Smith, Billy Gowers

Unsigned: Jong, Campbell, Roughead (exploring options), Honeychurch
Unsigned but indicated will, Wallis, Libba, Dickson

Have I missed anyone
Yeah brad Lynch

[bornadog]

Yeah brad Lynch

Lynch has yet to be signed Ledge?

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3532814247/174ce25ae8c62043bb65051c0e6ad5a7_bigger.jpegSam Edmund‏Verified account @SammyHeraldSun (https://twitter.com/SammyHeraldSun) More
I reckon the @westernbulldogs (https://twitter.com/westernbulldogs) within their rights to expect a first-round pick for Luke Dahlhaus. @GeelongCats (https://twitter.com/GeelongCats) got pick 19 only 12 months ago for Steve Motlop, who left for Port on the same contract and at the same age as Dahlhaus is likely to leave for Cats.

[Grantysghost]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3532814247/174ce25ae8c62043bb65051c0e6ad5a7_bigger.jpegSam Edmund‏Verified account @SammyHeraldSun (https://twitter.com/SammyHeraldSun) More
I reckon the @westernbulldogs (https://twitter.com/westernbulldogs) within their rights to expect a first-round pick for Luke Dahlhaus. @GeelongCats (https://twitter.com/GeelongCats) got pick 19 only 12 months ago for Steve Motlop, who left for Port on the same contract and at the same age as Dahlhaus is likely to leave for Cats.




Does Ablett need to move again?

[Mofra]

Dahl leaving is a lot like Stringer leaving - it's probably the right call, but it's a total bummer and it wasn't meant to be like this. It's not good or bad, just sad.
I can't see it TBH.
Stringer was a headcase and a disruption, Dahl was a heart and soul player on the field.

Really, really, really strange decision.

[Axe Man]

The Story so far - Senior List

Out: Clay Smith, Shane Biggs, Kieran Collins, Luke Dahlhaus,

In: Roarke Smith, Billy Gowers

Unsigned: Jong, Campbell, Roughead (exploring options), Honeychurch
Unsigned but indicated will, Wallis, Libba, Dickson

Have I missed anyone

There's been no confirmation that Roarke is being upgraded.

[bornadog]

There's been no confirmation that Roarke is being upgraded.

Yeah I get what you mean, but this (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2018-08-30/smith-signs-on)article indiactes he has sined on. I can;t see how you can sign on if you are a 3rd year rookie? Have I missed something? Also, how does Billy get a contract till 2020 when he is on the rookie list?

If someone can explain, great. I just assumed we are going to draft them with late picks.

[comrade]

My son will be so upset. I've been trying to hint that he won't play at the Bulldogs anymore but he doesn't think it will happen. He's got his badge, his doll, his backpack and birthday cards. He is going to be devastated. I guess the Dahlhaus Clubhouse is closed. :(

Welcome to Ed's Red Shed.

[Axe Man]

Yeah I get what you mean, but this (http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2018-08-30/smith-signs-on)article indiactes he has sined on. I can;t see how you can sign on if you are a 3rd year rookie? Have I missed something? Also, how does Billy get a contract till 2020 when he is on the rookie list?

If someone can explain, great. I just assumed we are going to draft them with late picks.

I've already posted elsewhere that this season was Roarke's 4th year on the rookie list. We had to delist him last year and re-draft him in the rookie draft. The 3 year thing is not relevant. I am unsure whether he stays on the rookie list and 2019 counts as a second year or whether he will be upgraded. There has been nothing I have seen saying he will be upgraded.

On the other hand with Gowers it has been reported that he will be upgraded.

[G-Mo77]

Welcome to Ed's Red Shed.

Haha. In all seriousness Luke has been the face of the club for kids for so many years. There are going to be a lot of parents having to break the bad news to a lot of upset children. I think the club may lose my son, I've been trying to move him over to Bont all season but it just hasn't stuck. Kick to kick he's Dahlhaus, I'm Bont. I'll work hard to keep him here. Maybe threaten to sleep outside if he doesn't follow the Bulldogs, that should do it. :)

[Mantis]

I can't see it TBH.
Stringer was a headcase and a disruption, Dahl was a heart and soul player on the field.

Really, really, really strange decision.

Given Dahl's output (as a senior player) the last 2 seasons we would be screaming blue murder if we had offered up a 4yr & $2+ mil contract, which is what's been reported.

To me it seems we have offered up what we believe is a fair & reasonable contract, but have been out-bid which is going to be common in the current market place.

[Happy Days]

Given Dahl's output (as a senior player) the last 2 seasons we would be screaming blue murder if we had offered up a 4yr & $2+ mil contract, which is what's been reported.

To me it seems we have offered up what we believe is a fair & reasonable contract, but have been out-bid which is going to be common in the current market place.

Exactly - not a bad decision, probably the right financial decision, and would seem to have secured Rhylee West, but it's still a bummer to see a player who was a ray of sunshine during the McCartney years and a premiership hero depart.

[ReLoad]

Welcome to Ed's Red Shed.

Im going with Gowers Towers......

[Bulldog Revolution]

Stevo pushing for end of first round - equivalent to Motlop

Sounds like the salary package and years are equivalent or more than Motlop so we have a strong case Id think

[Ozza]

Yeah, putting the emotion of it aside, the reality is that he's a free agent, the club don't feel a 4 x 550K contract is what he is worth - and he's entitled to go to the best offer.

The likely replacement is Rhylee West who will play an almost identical role for the long term as a mid/forward - and comes in on $370K less for the first 2 seasons (if I'm still correct that 1st year players are around $180K max).

[bulldogtragic]

Yeah, putting the emotion of it aside, the reality is that he's a free agent, the club don't feel a 4 x 550K contract is what he is worth - and he's entitled to go to the best offer.

The likely replacement is Rhylee West who will play an almost identical role for the long term as a mid/forward - and comes in on $370K less for the first 2 seasons (if I'm still correct that 1st year players are around $180K max).

I think this a rare case where all the parties win. As you say we secure Rhylee West & have cash to spend elsewhere, Geelong continue to top up, and Dahl just got $2,200,000. Good for everyone.

[Axe Man]

Sounds like the salary package and years are equivalent or more than Motlop so we have a strong case Id think

Salary and age are equivalent which are the important factors, contract length is unimportant to compensation.

[whythelongface]

I think this a rare case where all the parties win. As you say we secure Rhylee West & have cash to spend elsewhere, Geelong continue to top up, and Dahl just got $2,200,000. Good for everyone.

pretty much sums it up. Sad to see him go but from a list management perspective it is the right decision. As others have stated though this is not always just about list management, it is the marketing angle that we may suffer from in the short term. However, this will only be short term and no doubt on-field success be the catalyst that continues to increase our membership, including the younger generation.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think this a rare case where all the parties win. As you say we secure Rhylee West & have cash to spend elsewhere, Geelong continue to top up, and Dahl just got $2,200,000. Good for everyone.

What about considering the effect this has on the playing group? I'm not suggesting it has or would. But could it? Could players feel upset that we may have lowballed Dahl to ensure he left?

[bulldogtragic]

What about considering the effect this has on the playing group? I'm not suggesting it has or would. But could it? Could players feel upset that we may have lowballed Dahl to ensure he left?

I think the players know most all, it’s about players themselves getting every dollar. If you have to leave to get move, that’s why they lobbied to get free agency. So I don’t see an issue for other players if one wants to use free agency to earn more money and/or a longer contract. This is what the players want.

[Ozza]

What about considering the effect this has on the playing group? I'm not suggesting it has or would. But could it? Could players feel upset that we may have lowballed Dahl to ensure he left?

It depends whether the perception is that we lowballed him. We did offer a multi year contract.

Losing a player like Dahlhaus is always a risk in terms of impact it might have on a group. I think there is a greater risk on who you bring in, than who you lose from the group - as playing groups can move on from who they lose and understand the realities of free agency.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think the players know most all, it’s about players themselves getting every dollar. If you have to leave to get move, that’s why they lobbied to get free agency. So I don’t see an issue for other players if one wants to use free agency to earn more money and/or a longer contract. This is what the players want.

I think there are 2 views on the Dahl move. 1 being he decided to leave us and 2 being we essentially forced him out by offering 'unders'. Unfortunately we will most likely never know what our offer was

[G-Mo77]

What about considering the effect this has on the playing group? I'm not suggesting it has or would. But could it? Could players feel upset that we may have lowballed Dahl to ensure he left?

On top of that close friends may not be happy he's gone. It's a different attitude now but I'm sure there are people at clubs are disappointed their mate has gone elsewhere.

He's a 26 year old and a ready made player who we will replace with a skinny 18 year old kid which unbalances the list even further. We seem to like to brag about our young list so I guess this can win us the "Least Games Played" and "Youngest Team" stats. Dahl's output may have been down since 2016 but there are lots who have also been the same, to say he's expendable because of that is ludicrous. Geelong see enough to offer him 4 years at 550K per season and unfortunately they're not idiots. A heart and sole player who loves the club walks out for 1 extra year, a childhood Bulldog supporter in Roughead who loves the club also looks to be going and on top of that 2 Father/Son players are out of contract, remain unsigned and 1 had to shop himself around. It doesn't fill me with great confidence that everything is rosy behind the scenes which is continuously brought up in external media outlets. Maybe their stories we flame them for making up have some truth to it.

[Topdog]

I think there are 2 views on the Dahl move. 1 being he decided to leave us and 2 being we essentially forced him out by offering 'unders'. Unfortunately we will most likely never know what our offer was

Interesting as that is the first time I've heard that we lowballed him.

[bulldogtragic]

I think there are 2 views on the Dahl move. 1 being he decided to leave us and 2 being we essentially forced him out by offering 'unders'. Unfortunately we will most likely never know what our offer was

Our offer can be viewed pretty subjectively to be fair. It was under $2.2m, so from one stance that’s unders. Based on his last two years, maybe the offer was adequate to his performance from a different stance. I think everyone will see it how the want, players or fans. But I don’t see an internal issue arising, we didn’t do wrong by him. He got overs and we couldn’t/wouldn’t match it. This is new world order, which the players want, where whomever offers more money wins. Unless you’re North Melbourne :D

[Cyberdoggie]

On top of that close friends may not be happy he's gone. It's a different attitude now but I'm sure there are people at clubs are disappointed their mate has gone elsewhere.

He's a 26 year old and a ready made player who we will replace with a skinny 18 year old kid which unbalances the list even further. We seem to like to brag about our young list so I guess this can win us the "Least Games Played" and "Youngest Team" stats. Dahl's output may have been down since 2016 but there are lots who have also been the same, to say he's expendable because of that is ludicrous. Geelong see enough to offer him 4 years at 550K per season and unfortunately they're not idiots. A heart and sole player who loves the club walks out for 1 extra year, a childhood Bulldog supporter in Roughead who loves the club also looks to be going and on top of that 2 Father/Son players are out of contract, remain unsigned and 1 had to shop himself around. It doesn't fill me with great confidence that everything is rosy behind the scenes which is continuously brought up in external media outlets. Maybe their stories we flame them for making up have some truth to it.

While it is the new way of things i'm actually happy that the club and list management are for once taking the sentimental approach that we have taken so many times in the past.
Through all our years of failure we have held onto the individual favourites because we have had nothing else to cling on to. To be a successful club we need to do away with that attitude and think about what the club need and not the players or the supporters primarily.

It's clear that Dahlhaus has his limitations, his output has been down, and others are forcing him out of his best position.
I really admire Roughead but he has really dropped away and he's no longer number 1 ruck.
Wallis and Libba aren't guaranteed a career at the bulldogs just because their fathers played for us, they have to fit the team we want to create. If Libba's knees/attitude aren't there then he is expendable, if Wallis isn't the right fit then he is to. It's a harsh reality but also a winning won.
I've had a taste of being a winning team and i'm pleased we are making decisions to get us there again.

[craigsahibee]

Does Ablett need to move again?

Maybe it's a push to get Cal Ward to come home!

[EasternWest]

Maybe it's a push to get Cal Ward to come home!

I'm in.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Interesting as that is the first time I've heard that we lowballed him.

There’s been rumour of a 3 year 350-375k offer which is apparently league average wage.

I agree with others that his form has been average the last two season. But for a clubman, would he have stayed for say $425-450k? If he wanted us to match and nothing less then good riddance. But I feel he would have stayed for less to a point. But we’ll never know.

I’m not happy nor unhappy with this. From a pure list management perspective I think it’s excellent. From a clubhouse perspective I’m just not sure

[G-Mo77]

While it is the new way of things i'm actually happy that the club and list management are for once taking the sentimental approach that we have taken so many times in the past.
Through all our years of failure we have held onto the individual favourites because we have had nothing else to cling on to. To be a successful club we need to do away with that attitude and think about what the club need and not the players or the supporters primarily.

It's clear that Dahlhaus has his limitations, his output has been down, and others are forcing him out of his best position.
I really admire Roughead but he has really dropped away and he's no longer number 1 ruck.
Wallis and Libba aren't guaranteed a career at the bulldogs just because their fathers played for us, they have to fit the team we want to create. If Libba's knees/attitude aren't there then he is expendable, if Wallis isn't the right fit then he is to. It's a harsh reality but also a winning won.
I've had a taste of being a winning team and i'm pleased we are making decisions to get us there again.

What decisions have we made that make you think we're going to get back there anytime soon? If anything we had a chance to be successful and have thrown it away with poor list management. Giving up players in this age bracket and bringing in more 18 year old kids are not going to get us back to the promised land anytime soon. Rolling out younger players and netting draft picks thinking this is the best way to get back to being the best is a dangerous slippery slope.

[Mantis]

He's a 26 year old and a ready made player who we will replace with a skinny 18 year old kid which unbalances the list even further. We seem to like to brag about our young list so I guess this can win us the "Least Games Played" and "Youngest Team" stats. Dahl's output may have been down since 2016 but there are lots who have also been the same, to say he's expendable because of that is ludicrous. Geelong see enough to offer him 4 years at 550K per season and unfortunately they're not idiots. A heart and sole player who loves the club walks out for 1 extra year, a childhood Bulldog supporter in Roughead who loves the club also looks to be going and on top of that 2 Father/Son players are out of contract, remain unsigned and 1 had to shop himself around. It doesn't fill me with great confidence that everything is rosy behind the scenes which is continuously brought up in external media outlets. Maybe their stories we flame them for making up have some truth to it.

Hawthorn have been lauded by many for their list mgt in the past few years in a bid for them to stay up near the pointy end of the ladder, but in doing so had to make the tough calls on the likes of Hodge, Mitchell & Lewis who's output on the field was probably more than Luke's given respective B&F finishes. If Luke was finishing in the top 5 of our B&F which shouldn't be a stretch given his age & experience he would've been signed up months ago, but sadly he has just been a bit part performer.

Whilst Geelong seem to know what they are doing they've been stuck in the bottom part of the top 8 for the best of this decade and if they believe that adding Luke will help them make the jump then go for it, but on what he's shown recently I can't see him making that much of a difference given the age demographics of their best 22 and the level of talent coming up from beneath.

It's a new world for players with FA taking effect and we're just going to have to get used to players leaving when common ground can't be found, it certainly sucks losing players who have given us so much joy, but the harsh reality is that it's going to be more and more common given the differing paths clubs will take to reach the top of the pile.

[Happy Days]

I'll add that the sentiment seems to be the Cats have signed him on as a "pressure forward" despite no indication in the last like 6 years that he can play as a full-time forward, let alone as one as demanded by the current AFL landscape.

To give up this much money for Dahl to play the position he has been excellent at I'd understand, but seems a huge risk to pay this much for the role they've earmarked for him.

[bornadog]

I'll add that the sentiment seems to be the Cats have signed him on as a "pressure forward" despite no indication in the last like 6 years that he can play as a full-time forward, let alone as one as demanded by the current AFL landscape.

To give up this much money for Dahl to play the position he has been excellent at I'd understand, but seems a huge risk to pay this much for the role they've earmarked for him.

As I have previously posted, his career goals:



2018
2


2017
13


2016
9


2015
17


2014
17


2013
28


2012
13


2011
11


Total Career
110

[G-Mo77]

Hawthorn have been lauded by many for their list mgt in the past few years in a bid for them to stay up near the pointy end of the ladder, but in doing so had to make the tough calls on the likes of Hodge, Mitchell & Lewis who's output on the field was probably more than Luke's given respective B&F finishes. If Luke was finishing in the top 5 of our B&F which shouldn't be a stretch given his age & experience he would've been signed up months ago, but sadly he has just been a bit part performer.

Whilst Geelong seem to know what they are doing they've been stuck in the bottom part of the top 8 for the best of this decade and if they believe that adding Luke will help them make the jump then go for it, but on what he's shown recently I can't see him making that much of a difference given the age demographics of their best 22 and teh level of talent coming up from beneath.

It's a new world for players with FA taking effect and we're just going to have to get used to players leaving when common ground can't be found, it certainly sucks losing players who have given us so much joy, but the harsh reality is that it's going to be more and more common given the differing paths clubs will take to reach the top of the pile.

They're all fair points and if Dahl was maybe a couple of years older or our list was a bit more balanced then yeah I'd probably be more on board with it, of course I'd be disappointed but could live with it. He's at an age which is what we need, more experience is needed in this team, not less. I've adapted to watching players come and go, it hurts but it's part of modern AFL and I move on pretty quickly however what I hate about this is that one of the main reasons for letting him go is to get the compo and help net us West. OK that's great, we get West who should be a nice player for us......... (takes a breath) however, maybe if we didn't piss away our 2nd round pick in last years trade debacle we would have had more flexibility and hung onto someone like Dahlhaus for a little longer. It's our piss poor decisions that we patted ourselves on the back for in 2017 pushing players out the door to rectify them. That is something I can't take and certainly won't applaud them for it.

[bornadog]

however, maybe if we didn't piss away our 2nd round pick in last years trade debacle

What trade debacle is that? The one that netted Schache and Richards for Stringer? I know what I prefer, and if it cost us this years 2nd rounder, I don't see a problem.

[G-Mo77]

What trade debacle is that? The one that netted Schache and Richards for Stringer? I know what I prefer, and if it cost us this years 2nd rounder, I don't see a problem.

It's a flow on effect which is why we're under the pump to get picks now, we knew back then we needed picks in 2018. We could have got 16 or around that area without giving up our 2018 2nd rounder, we just had to move earlier on the Stringer deal which could have got us around the same range.

Richards will be great for us, Schache I'm not sold on.

[Mantis]

They're all fair points and if Dahl was maybe a couple of years older or our list was a bit more balanced then yeah I'd probably be more on board with it, of course I'd be disappointed but could live with it. He's at an age which is what we need, more experience is needed in this team, not less. I've adapted to watching players come and go, it hurts but it's part of modern AFL and I move on pretty quickly however what I hate about this is that one of the main reasons for letting him go is to get the compo and help net us West. OK that's great, we get West who should be a nice player for us......... (takes a breath) however, maybe if we didn't piss away our 2nd round pick in last years trade debacle we would have had more flexibility and hung onto someone like Dahlhaus for a little longer. It's our piss poor decisions that we patted ourselves on the back for in 2017 pushing players out the door to rectify them. That is something I can't take and certainly won't applaud them for it.

Valid response, but regardless of the need to gather points for West or not if we wanted to match Geelong both in terms of length of contract & monetary value we would've, but Luke at 26 isn't worthy of this sort of deal based on current output and that is what the decision should be based on... If we wanted both we would've found a way to get the necessary points so I don't see this decison being related.

And whilst my feelings on our previous list manager is known I believe we made the best out of a bad situation last year and whilst losing a 2nd round pick for this year was far from ideal adding Naughton, Richards & Schache to the list was a huge win.

[G-Mo77]

Valid response, but regardless of the need to gather points for West or not if we wanted to match Geelong both in terms of length of contract & monetary value we would've, but Luke at 26 isn't worthy of this sort of deal based on current output and that is what the decision should be based on... If we wanted both we would've found a way to get the necessary points so I don't see this decison being related.

And whilst my feelings on our previous list manager is known I believe we made the best out of a bad situation last year and whilst losing a 2nd round pick for this year was far from ideal adding Naughton, Richards & Schache to the list was a huge win.

It did feel like a Steve Bradbury win though :p

[Ozza]

I'm happy we got in Schache. He had his 21st birthday 4 days before the last game - and we're talking about a No.2 pick, 200cms with plenty of body development left in him to help him improve. Kicked 17 goals in 13 games, adjusting to a new club, who was playing fairly poorly for most of that time.

Hardly think last year was a debacle. Naughton will be the best tall out of the draft. Richards is an absolute beauty, and Schache on top of that.

Couldn't agree more with Mantis' post, re Hawthorn making tough calls on players, and Geelong focusing on a 'top up' approach since Chris Scott has been at the club. In that time, they are 3-8 in finals (3-9 after Friday night). The top ups aren't taking them from the 5-8 range into Grand Finals and I'm not sure why a small player is what they are chasing as another top up when they are absolutely crying out for a ruckman.

[bornadog]

I'm happy we got in Schache. He had his 21st birthday 4 days before the last game - and we're talking about a No.2 pick, 200cms with plenty of body development left in him to help him improve. Kicked 17 goals in 13 games, adjusting to a new club, who was playing fairly poorly for most of that time.

Hardly think last year was a debacle. Naughton will be the best tall out of the draft. Richards is an absolute beauty, and Schache on top of that.

Couldn't agree more with Mantis' post, re Hawthorn making tough calls on players, and Geelong focusing on a 'top up' approach since Chris Scott has been at the club. In that time, they are 3-8 in finals (3-9 after Friday night). The top ups aren't taking them from the 5-8 range into Grand Finals and I'm not sure why a small player is what they are chasing as another top up when they are absolutely crying out for a ruckman.


On top of that the club recognises we are young and last year brought in Crozier and Trengove to help in that mid age bracket. I think both were successful.

Bevo has already stated we will be bringing in more mature age players to help balance the list. Of course losing Smith, Biggs and Dahl, all premiership players doesn't help, but all are the right decisions and reasons.

I can see the club trading pick 7 for a very good mid, and bringing in West and Buku as the young players.

The list will look pretty good going into 2019.

[dukedog]

Agreed. If we got an A grade mid. Shiel. Gaff. Someone of that Ilk. I would let go of pick 7. With libba back at his best and west in. If English comes on next year aswell. For mine Dunkley is the one to watch next year. He will go elite. How McRae didn't make AA is *!*!*!*!en absurd.

[G-Mo77]

So I broke the news to my little man. After I told him Dahlhaus won't be playing his response was with tears in his eyes "will he come back?" So of course I broke down. He got home from kinder and went to his room with his doll and looking at his birthday card. :(

I don't remember much about player movement when I was his age but I guess they weren't used for marketing back then either.

[FrediKanoute]

What decisions have we made that make you think we're going to get back there anytime soon? If anything we had a chance to be successful and have thrown it away with poor list management. Giving up players in this age bracket and bringing in more 18 year old kids are not going to get us back to the promised land anytime soon. Rolling out younger players and netting draft picks thinking this is the best way to get back to being the best is a dangerous slippery slope.

Signing Lukey D on a 4/5 year £550k deal would probably have cost us a Dunkley or a McLean in a year or 2. As it stands he isn't in the best 6 midfielders at the club and if Richards develops and West becomes what people anticipate in 2 to 3 years he would have superfluous. Its a hard call, but I think history will show we got this one right.

[comrade]

So I broke the news to my little man. After I told him Dahlhaus won't be playing his response was with tears in his eyes "will he come back?" So of course I broke down. He got home from kinder and went to his room with his doll and looking at his birthday card. :(

I don't remember much about player movement when I was his age but I guess they weren't used for marketing back then either.

Man, that's a bit gut wrenching. I'm a parent to a young one too, so I 100% empathise.

The club definitely needs to consider the impact this will have on a generation of young fans that have grown up with Dahl as their favourite player & find his replacement very, very quickly.

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmT0Xn9W4AAcMQh.jpg

[jeemak]

Well he gets an opportunity to prove me wrong. I hope he does, but I'm not convinced he will.

Liam Picken did in sterling fashion however, so there's always hope.

[Happy Days]

Not a fan of that second year. At all.

[AshMac]

Agreed. If we got an A grade mid. Shiel. Gaff. Someone of that Ilk. I would let go of pick 7. With libba back at his best and west in. If English comes on next year aswell. For mine Dunkley is the one to watch next year. He will go elite. How McRae didn't make AA is *!*!*!*!en absurd.

Agree re. Dunkley. I think him and Bailey Williams will explode next year. Would have been great to see Williams play a full season, but I thought he looked ok again in the game against the tigers so good to get another run at it.

I’d happily part w pick 7 for Shiel. Got a feeling Gaff won’t be the same player he has been unless he goes to a big club that’s great at instilling confidence and an “f-off attitude”. We aren’t thatclub and his media appearances make him out to be a sensitive guy who will carry the thug tag - and hate it - all of next year.

[DOG GOD]

I’m happy for Jong to sign on. I feel we haven’t seen the best of him. He just needs to get his body 100% right and have the opportunity to play a string of games. Fingers crossed his body can hold up.

[Rocket Science]

So I broke the news to my little man. After I told him Dahlhaus won't be playing his response was with tears in his eyes "will he come back?" So of course I broke down. He got home from kinder and went to his room with his doll and looking at his birthday card. :(

I don't remember much about player movement when I was his age but I guess they weren't used for marketing back then either.

Plonk the young pup down in front an Ed Richards highlight video before explaining Ed's going nowhere else for a long, long time.

Failing that, perhaps try this ...

https://preview.ibb.co/kM3Xhz/ed.jpg (https://ibb.co/cFxshz)

[EasternWest]

So I broke the news to my little man. After I told him Dahlhaus won't be playing his response was with tears in his eyes "will he come back?" So of course I broke down. He got home from kinder and went to his room with his doll and looking at his birthday card. :(

I don't remember much about player movement when I was his age but I guess they weren't used for marketing back then either.

That's tough G. At least he'll always have great memories of what Luke gave us. And he can find a new hero in Ed Richards!

[Topdog]

Interesting point of view talking about Age and experience and bringing in Croz and Trengove. I think both outperformed Dahl this season

[GVGjr]

It's good new about Jong, he just needs some luck with injuries and hopefully he can work his way into the best 22.

What is the best role he could play for us?

[ledge]

Interesting point of view talking about Age and experience and bringing in Croz and Trengove. I think both outperformed Dahl this season

Barrret found a way to make it negative though !

Apparently it’s more disrespecting players.and offering dodgy contracts

[bornadog]

From Stevo
Bulldog Marcus Adams has been homesick in the past ... hearing now he is weighing up an exit with 2 years left on deal ... WA clubs logical frontrunners if he goes in trade ... @7NewsMelbourne (https://twitter.com/7NewsMelbourne)

[Happy Days]

Allegedly Billings looking to get out of St Kilda. Would hope that we're interested and also don't check my post history.

[Grantysghost]

From Stevo
Bulldog Marcus Adams has been homesick in the past ... hearing now he is weighing up an exit with 2 years left on deal ... WA clubs logical frontrunners if he goes in trade ... @7NewsMelbourne (https://twitter.com/7NewsMelbourne)





I'd be going hard for May if this eventuates.

[Dry Rot]

We've done well with trading in some lesser lights like Crozier, Trengove, Biggs and Hamling.

Any players of this type on our radar?

[The Doctor]

From Stevo
Bulldog Marcus Adams has been homesick in the past ... hearing now he is weighing up an exit with 2 years left on deal ... WA clubs logical frontrunners if he goes in trade ... @7NewsMelbourne (https://twitter.com/7NewsMelbourne)





if true then send him on his way and demand a decent pay

[G-Mo77]

We've done well with trading in some lesser lights like Crozier, Trengove, Biggs and Hamling.

Any players of this type on our radar?

Hayes from Footscray?

[bulldogtragic]

From Stevo
Bulldog Marcus Adams has been homesick in the past ... hearing now he is weighing up an exit with 2 years left on deal ... WA clubs logical frontrunners if he goes in trade ... @7NewsMelbourne (https://twitter.com/7NewsMelbourne)





WCE. A trade with Gaff, as not to impact our Dahlhaus compo. Have to work out the extra part, they can get Roughy as a free agent which is better for both. Maybe swap of first rounders next year.

[Daughter of the West]

So I broke the news to my little man. After I told him Dahlhaus won't be playing his response was with tears in his eyes "will he come back?" So of course I broke down. He got home from kinder and went to his room with his doll and looking at his birthday card. :(

I don't remember much about player movement when I was his age but I guess they weren't used for marketing back then either.

G, I'm so sorry - that's such a tough situation as a parent. Sending hugs to little man and you!

We certainly haven't made it easy on our marketing department the last couple of years. First Stringer, now Dahl.

[ledge]

G, I'm so sorry - that's such a tough situation as a parent. Sending hugs to little man and you!

We certainly haven't made it easy on our marketing department the last couple of years. First Stringer, now Dahl.

I’m backing Dahl still gets a photo in next years team calendar.

[Dry Rot]

Adams confirmed that he wants to go home.

What can we get from either WA club?

[Twodogs]

Adams confirmed that he wants to go home.

What can we get from either WA club?

He will probably change his mind again tomorrow.

[FrediKanoute]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DmT0Xn9W4AAcMQh.jpg

Surprised by this. At his best he is a solid contributor, but I think 2 years is generous.

[bulldogtragic]

Adams confirmed that he wants to go home.

What can we get from either WA club?

Something involving trading for Gaff.

[kruder]

These WA Boys..... Lets hope we get a better result with English and Naughton.

I'd have a crack at Billings for sure, whats he worth boys? I'm guessing mid/late first round?

[bornadog]

Adams confirmed that he wants to go home.

What can we get from either WA club?

Only confirmed by journo at this stage

[Dry Rot]

Only confirmed by journo at this stage

His cousin posts on BF. Confirmed.

[bornadog]

His cousin posts on BF. Confirmed.

Ok thanks

[Dry Rot]

Ok thanks

FWIW he posted "Sorry to say guys, he needs to go home."

[FrediKanoute]

Adams confirmed that he wants to go home.

What can we get from either WA club?

This worries me though as when fit he is an asset to the backline

[bulldogtragic]

FWIW he posted "Sorry to say guys, he needs to go home."

If we get a good trade I guess he can go home. Otherwise see him on preseason day 1.

[Dry Rot]

This worries me though as when fit he is an asset to the backline

I'm not happy about it. Doubt we'll get properly compensated.

[bulldogtragic]

This worries me though as when fit he is an asset to the backline

Since drafting, he’s played 27 of a possible 70 games. Including slow comeback games and games where he got injured. Getting and staying fit does seem to be an issue. If a good trade could be struck, our risk is losing an otherwise asset, albeit an asset that has played only 34% of games since drafting.

[Rocket Science]

Adams confirmed that he wants to go home.

What can we get from either WA club?

Good lord. This again?

Bye mate, enjoy your time rehabbing close to fam.

Over to you Sam Power.

[comrade]

Won't lose sleep over Adams leaving. His body just can't handle the rigours of top level footy and it seems pretty clear his mindset/mental health is compromised by being away from his family base. So we're never going to see him fulfil his potential with us.

He's contracted but I'm thinking late 2nd at best.

[Sedat]

If Adams goes, we surely need to keep Roberts for the final year of his contract.

[bulldogtragic]

If Adams goes, we surely need to keep Roberts for the final year of his contract.

Yep. Adams & Collins maybe both gone. NMM gone. Morris is a legend, but he will be 36 so 'old man' injuries may arise. So we need KPD cover. So Young & Roberts have to stay in my book now, irrespective of any interest that may or may not come from other clubs. We are looking at Cordy, Naughton, Wood, Morris - so Roberts & Young round 6 tall/tallish defenders with Trengove going to the ruck.

[hujsh]

Cordy, Naughton and Young with Roberts as depth and Morris/Wood as coverage (in the air coverage and break in case of emergency coverage) is not horrible. The consensus has been we have too many KPDs and now we'll have 2 less.

To be honest Adams seems like the perfect 'has currency above his output' type and if we need assets for points/trades he might be a good option. Contracted for 2 years also give us a bit of leeway if we decide to be tough

[1eyedog]

Agree re. Dunkley. I think him and Bailey Williams will explode next year. Would have been great to see Williams play a full season, but I thought he looked ok again in the game against the tigers so good to get another run at it.

I’d happily part w pick 7 for Shiel. Got a feeling Gaff won’t be the same player he has been unless he goes to a big club that’s great at instilling confidence and an “f-off attitude”. We aren’t thatclub and his media appearances make him out to be a sensitive guy who will carry the thug tag - and hate it - all of next year.

Not sure about this. I think a small club is exactly what he needs. A club that draws less attention, less media scrutiny.

With Adams potentially on the trade table and Roughie as steak knives we have never been in a better position to get Gaff. My feeling though is that it will be Freo who will be more into Adams than the Wiggles.

However, if the Wiggles do well in the finals this year without Gaff they may be more amenable with regards to trading him out.

I like Gaff but I like Shiel heaps more. Shiel is the one that will go to a big club.

[Grantysghost]

Dissapointing re Adams I think he has a massive upside. Any angst towards him should be balanced with the fact he's probably the nicest fella Ive encountered at the club. Always up for a chat, intelligent and considered (strong interest in psychology studies) and generous with his time. He's obviously wrestling with his loyalty to the club and his family loyalties so it's hard to blame him for making a tough choice if it works out that way. You can guarantee the Perth clubs have been in his ear too which I think needs to be addressed but not sure how. Good luck to him for the future. Hopefully we can get a decent return, the list management guys will be earning their money .

[bulldogtragic]

Not sure about this. I think a small club is exactly what he needs. A club that draws less attention, less media scrutiny. With Adams potentially on the trade table and Roughie as steak knives we have never been in a better position to get Gaff. My feeling though is that it will be Freo who will be more into Adams than the Wiggles.

WCE wanted him after his first year, 2016. Adams manager was on trade radio that off season saying he'd be open to go WCE if a trade was on the table. I agree, if they're after Roughy & Adams, and we are in the pack (presumably) for Gaff. That's a good start. I've said elsewhere, if we could trade down the first round, pick 7, to around pick 12 (Sydney, for one of their 100 small forwards), then put pick 12, Adams & Roughy on the table in a Gaff conversation. Not dissimilar to the Dangerfield trade value. That's a hell of a lot better then free agency compo of circa pick 16-18. Surely that makes us competitive in the race, Dahl leaving gives us the money to tempt Gaff too.

[KT31]

Dissapointing re Adams I think he has a massive upside. Any angst towards him should be balanced with the fact he's probably the nicest fella Ive encountered at the club. Always up for a chat, intelligent and considered (strong interest in psychology studies) and generous with his time. He's obviously wrestling with his loyalty to the club and his family loyalties so it's hard to blame him for making a tough choice if it works out that way. You can guarantee the Perth clubs have been in his ear too which I think needs to be addressed but not sure how. Good luck to him for the future. Hopefully we can get a decent return, the list management guys will be earning their money .
Nicer than Chris Grant or Dale Morris , wash your mouth out Gg.:D

[Cyberdoggie]

It's good new about Jong, he just needs some luck with injuries and hopefully he can work his way into the best 22.

What is the best role he could play for us?

I thought he could be that running midfielder we need, and he has shown glimpses of it at times. However lately it seems when he plays through there he just handballs it off Mitch Wallis style. Which really doesn't make use of his elite speed.

What I have seen however this year is that he can take a grab up forward. He has a sense for finding a spot in the hole, he has a big leap, strong hands and puts himself in position to kick a few goals a game. His set shots can be erratic but I think they were improving towards the end. He just needs to copy Ben Brown and run directly at the goal instead of towards the right post.

I can see him playing 70-80% as a forward, and then having some bursts through the middle toward the end of games.

[Mofra]

So I broke the news to my little man. After I told him Dahlhaus won't be playing his response was with tears in his eyes "will he come back?" So of course I broke down. He got home from kinder and went to his room with his doll and looking at his birthday card. :(

I don't remember much about player movement when I was his age but I guess they weren't used for marketing back then either.
Tough, poor little guy.
My favourite player when I was under 10 was Brad Hardie.
I'm sure by next season when he's a fully fledged member of "Ed's Shed" he'll be back on the Bulldogs bandwagon.

[Grantysghost]

Nicer than Chris Grant or Dale Morris , wash your mouth out Gg.:D

Haha ! Yes that's blasphemy. I'll rephrase it collectively. One of the nicest ....

[Mofra]

We've done well with trading in some lesser lights like Crozier, Trengove, Biggs and Hamling.

Any players of this type on our radar?
Sam Lloyd - presume he'd be cheap as chips.

[Mofra]

WCE wanted him after his first year, 2016. Adams manager was on trade radio that off season saying he'd be open to go WCE if a trade was on the table. I agree, if they're after Roughy & Adams, and we are in the pack (presumably) for Gaff. That's a good start. I've said elsewhere, if we could trade down the first round, pick 7, to around pick 12 (Sydney, for one of their 100 small forwards), then put pick 12, Adams & Roughy on the table in a Gaff conversation. Not dissimilar to the Dangerfield trade value. That's a hell of a lot better then free agency compo of circa pick 16-18. Surely that makes us competitive in the race, Dahl leaving gives us the money to tempt Gaff too.
Gaff was probably 3rd in the Brownlow count before his brain explosion.
I agree WCE have to take what they can get but if we get Gaff for even pick 7 plus Adams and Roughy I think we've got him for unders.

[bulldogtragic]

Gaff was probably 3rd in the Brownlow count before his brain explosion.
I agree WCE have to take what they can get but if we get Gaff for even pick 7 plus Adams and Roughy I think we've got him for unders.

I don't disagree. I'm looking at the media reporting that North is offering huge cash as a front runner. They have pick 11. If Sydney get knocked out this week, they have pick 13. So there's not a huge difference in draft pick in that eventuality (trading with Sydney) if it was a race between North and us to land Gaff. If Gaff names us, that strengthens our hand. Plus Adams is contracted and may want to go there, so that puts our offer in a stronger position over North, leaving Roughy aside. If we were forced to add more, we could swap our Dahl compo with their second round pick just beyond it, or look at swapping picks next year. I think there's room to play if Gaff wants us, and we want Gaff.

[1eyedog]

I don't disagree. I'm looking at the media reporting that North is offering huge cash as a front runner. They have pick 11. If Sydney get knocked out this week, they have pick 13. So there's not a huge difference in draft pick in that eventuality (trading with Sydney) if it was a race between North and us to land Gaff. If Gaff names us, that strengthens our hand. Plus Adams is contracted and may want to go there, so that puts our offer in a stronger position over North, leaving Roughy aside. If we were forced to add more, we could swap our Dahl compo with their second round pick just beyond it, or look at swapping picks next year. I think there's room to play if Gaff wants us, and we want Gaff.

Absolutely. If we want Gaff we have the superior pick, potential players who the Wiggles are interested in and the coin. Making him pick us would be fairly straight forward if the coin and length of the contract was right. How much do we want him? Will he makes us better and does he provide a skill set that we are short of? Yes and yes.

[mjp]

Absolutely. If we want Gaff ...

Has there been any indication that we are at all interested in Gaff?

[1eyedog]

Has there been any indication that we are at all interested in Gaff?

Nothing formal out of the club or media outlets no.

[jeemak]

Has there been any indication that we are at all interested in Gaff?

Does that matter! It's the post season and we're bored........

[bornadog]

Gaff was probably 3rd in the Brownlow count before his brain explosion.
I agree WCE have to take what they can get but if we get Gaff for even pick 7 plus Adams and Roughy I think we've got him for unders.

Isn't Gaff a free agent, or just out of contract?

[Topdog]

Does that matter! It's the post season and we're bored........

BINGO! Finals are just a distraction when your team is not in them.

[bulldogtragic]

Isn't Gaff a free agent, or just out of contract?

A restricted free agent. The response was to do with me suggesting wce will force a trade on him to get a better return than pick 16-18. Like Adelaide did with Dangerfield.

[Axe Man]

I think Gaff is pure fantasy for us.

There hasn't been any reported strong desire from him to come home so it only seems to be a question of money. The figures being reported are a 6 year $900k P.A. offer to stay at West Coast vs a 7 year $1.2million offer from North. I can't see us matching the North offer and honestly we aren't a destination club. We might be able to offer something similar to West Coast but wouldn't he just stay there in that case?

[Bulldog4life]

I think Gaff is pure fantasy for us.

There hasn't been any reported strong desire from him to come home so it only seems to be a question of money. The figures being reported are a 6 year $900k P.A. offer to stay at West Coast vs a 7 year $1.2million offer from North. I can't see us matching the North offer and honestly we aren't a destination club. We might be able to offer something similar to West Coast but wouldn't he just stay there in that case?

Shortly after his report Gaff's father had a heart attack. A good reason to come home I suspect.

[choconmientay]

Adams confirmed that he wants to go home.

What can we get from either WA club?

Would we do straight swap Adams for Duggan. He surely wants to go home to Victoria too ;>

[comrade]

Would we do straight swap Adams for Duggan. He surely wants to go home to Victoria too ;>

Sign me up.

[1eyedog]

I think Gaff is pure fantasy for us.

There hasn't been any reported strong desire from him to come home so it only seems to be a question of money. The figures being reported are a 6 year $900k P.A. offer to stay at West Coast vs a 7 year $1.2million offer from North. I can't see us matching the North offer and honestly we aren't a destination club. We might be able to offer something similar to West Coast but wouldn't he just stay there in that case?

Not if he wanted out of West Coast / Perth. Many have spoken about Gaff getting out of Perth would now be a good thing. There was some talk of him getting jumped by Freo supporters at one stage! I'm not surprised there's nothing out of the Gaff camp to be honest I'd be happy to lay low until the end of the season as well. I don't think we are any less of a destination club than Norf. I don't see it as pure fantasy at all. If we want him and he wants out we can get him.

[Axe Man]

Not if he wanted out of West Coast / Perth. Many have spoken about Gaff getting out of Perth would now be a good thing. There was some talk of him getting jumped by Freo supporters at one stage! I'm not surprised there's nothing out of the Gaff camp to be honest I'd be happy to lay low until the end of the season as well. I don't think we are any less of a destination club than Norf. I don't see it as pure fantasy at all. If we want him and he wants out we can get him.

But that's my point, if we are no more appealing than North then why would he choose us unless we are offering a better deal? Can you see us matching what North are supposedly offering? The players have all the power in these deals, not the clubs so Gaff will dictate where he goes, not West Coast. Anything we can offer in a trade won't matter to Gaff.

I hope I'm wrong but rarely do high profile players do a Buddy and end up at a club nobody suspects.

[Bulldog Joe]

But that's my point, if we are no more appealing than North then why would he choose us unless we are offering a better deal? Can you see us matching what North are supposedly offering? The players have all the power in these deals, not the clubs so Gaff will dictate where he goes, not West Coast. Anything we can offer in a trade won't matter to Gaff.

I hope I'm wrong but rarely do high profile players do a Buddy and end up at a club nobody suspects.

Surely playing anywhere but under Brad Scott is more appealing.

[Rocco Jones]

Getting a free agency cancels out your compensation, so I think we might avoid it this year with compo from Dahl + probably Roughy.

[bulldogtragic]

Getting a free agency cancels out your compensation, so I think we might avoid it this year with compo from Dahl + probably Roughy.

Tend to agree we will not take free agents that impact our compo, but if we liked the player we can trade to avoid compo reduction (thus avoiding free agency like you say). Port & Essendon traded for Monfries to avoid a compo impact many years ago. I firmly believe West Coast will force a trade on Gaff as their compo will be very poor, so if we were interested in him I think it's trade. And we really need that Dahl compo to grab West.

[jeemak]

I'd be inclined to think that after smashing someone's face in (not intentionally if he comes to us) and severely hampering WCE's finals prospects Gaff will help force a trade situation to improve WCE's compensation. If he didn't do this I'd be concerned about his character anyway.

Our pick 7-9 is in play on any gun that is available.

[GVGjr]

I'd be inclined to think that after smashing someone's face in (not intentionally if he comes to us) and severely hampering WCE's finals prospects Gaff will help force a trade situation to improve WCE's compensation. If he didn't do this I'd be concerned about his character anyway.

Our pick 7-9 is in play on any gun that is available.

I think there is a fair chance he would consider that for the club and there would be clubs happy to part with an early pick to get him to them. If North is considering using their first pick plus 700K per for Polec then other clubs should do the same for Gaff regardless of him being a FA

[1eyedog]

But that's my point, if we are no more appealing than North then why would he choose us unless we are offering a better deal? Can you see us matching what North are supposedly offering? The players have all the power in these deals, not the clubs so Gaff will dictate where he goes, not West Coast. Anything we can offer in a trade won't matter to Gaff.

I hope I'm wrong but rarely do high profile players do a Buddy and end up at a club nobody suspects.

Maybe rose coloured glasses but I heard that Bevo knows the Gaff family. But you're right probably means nothing when the dollars are on the table.

[bornadog]

I think there is a fair chance he would consider that for the club and there would be clubs happy to part with an early pick to get him to them. If North is considering using their first pick plus 700K per for Polec then other clubs should do the same for Gaff regardless of him being a FA

I am really hoping we are chasing Gaff. I think he is gettable, but depends whether we can convince him we are a club he wants to play with.

[Mofra]

Getting a free agency cancels out your compensation, so I think we might avoid it this year with compo from Dahl + probably Roughy.
WCE likely to trade for Roughy as their Lycett compo could be affected.

Will be interesting if they force a trade for Gaff which is rumoured is he does leave - North look set to trade their first rounder to Port for Polec.

[Twodogs]

Tough, poor little guy.
My favourite player when I was under 10 was Brad Hardie.
I'm sure by next season when he's a fully fledged member of "Ed's Shed" he'll be back on the Bulldogs bandwagon.


Kelvin Templeton, Brad Hardie, Gary Dempsey are just three Brownlow medalists that left while I could have still picked another club. But I never blamed the club and out of those three KT is the only one I still rate (and even then I dropped some coins at his feet the first time he came back to Whitten oval when Melbourne played there) the other two don't get mentioned in my house.

I blame the players, but that's just me.

Gary Dempsey who? Can you spell it? I've got a vague recollection. Do you spell it with a 'D'?


Shortly after his report Gaff's father had a heart attack. A good reason to come home I suspect.

Yeah I've been told that's why he wants to come home. And the person who told me said being brutally honest that if his dad dies then he will stay at West Coast.

[bulldogtragic]

WCE likely to trade for Roughy as their Lycett compo could be affected.

Will be interesting if they force a trade for Gaff which is rumoured is he does leave - North look set to trade their first rounder to Port for Polec.

Yep, we are stocked with a first rounder and two players they have or have current interest in (Adams & Roughy). We could do a small points trade if the Dahl compo is end of first round (ie. Swap our (before shuffling) pick 19 for their 21. They get to claim they got two first rounders plus two players for Gaff, and only threw back a second and third rounder. But as just said, they give us their third rounder also and then we are ahead in draft points). Plus a bucket of available salary after Dahl, Roughy, Biggs & Smith are gone/going. 'If' we want Gaff, and 'if' Gaff wants us, then I think we are well positioned as well as any club as far as I see it.

[Bulldog Joe]

Yep, we are stocked with a first rounder and two players they have or have current interest in (Adams & Roughy). We could do a small points trade if the Dahl compo is end of first round. Plus a bucket of available salary after Dahl, Roughy, Biggs & Smith are gone/going. 'If' we want Gaff, and 'if' Gaff wants us, then I think we are well positioned as well as any club as far as I see it.

You often mention a bucket of salary saved when players depart, but Biggs and Smith would have been (or should have been) on basic wages. Any replacement (even Gowers as an upgraded rookie) would utilise the wages of one of them.

While Roughy was in the top 10% (RFA), Dahl was on less (URFA). A player like Gaff would surely take (at least) the combined salary of both and there is still another list spot to pay someone to fill.

I really don't see the savings you see. We also need to sign Bont on significant money.

[bulldogtragic]

You often mention a bucket of salary saved when players depart, but Biggs and Smith would have been (or should have been) on basic wages. Any replacement (even Gowers as an upgraded rookie) would utilise the wages of one of them.

While Roughy was in the top 10% (RFA), Dahl was on less (URFA). A player like Gaff would surely take (at least) the combined salary of both and there is still another list spot to pay someone to fill.

I really don't see the savings you see. We also need to sign Bont on significant money.

I've outlined in other threads the full and long reason why I think we can now afford a Gaff like player. If I can find it, I will re-post it here. But I'm of the view that we have the capacity to re-sign Bonts to a good contract and enough to afford one very good player, and continue to tick away contracts for required players going forward.

[Bulldog Joe]

I've outlined in other threads the full and long reason why I think we can now afford a Gaff like player. If I can find it, I will re-post it here. But I'm of the view that we have the capacity to re-sign Bonts to a good contract and enough to afford one very good player, and continue to tick away contracts for required players going forward.

Salary cap and list management, does seem a complex issue.

The media seem to be suggesting that Gold Coast have salary cap issues, despite losing Tom Lynch and being an on field basket case.

Yet there are some Victorian clubs that seem to have very flexible arrangements that allow them to pay top dollar with near impunity.
Although the lack of depth at Geelong and Hawthorn does indicate that it is having some impact on them. It will be interesting to see how Richmond handle the apparent signing of Tom Lynch within their salary cap.

[bulldogtragic]

The cap went up last year, with annual rises.
Dalrymple said last year we had NOT spent the so called 'Hurley Money' we had aside.
Stringers salary and expected salary going forward is freed.
We've front ended Boyd so that his salary isn't onerous now and going forward.
Dahlhaus wage and expected wage going forward is freed. Rumour was our dollars were close, $500-550,000, but year's weren't.
Roughy's wage and expected wage going forward is freed.
Biggs unexpectedly retired. That wage and expected wage is freed.
Clay Smith retired. If we factored in him being around next year, that expected wage is freed.
Redpath may retire. If he does, that wage and expected wage going forward is somewhat freed.
Adams may ask for a trade, if Stevo is true, so that wage and expected wage is freed.
Delistees wages are freed up.
Bonts contract negotiations were 'going well' before it was clear a lot of well earning players were out the door.

So if we take into account the minimum wage associated with replacing draftees off the total of the cake above, we have a lot of cap space to try to get one gun player. But only really enough to get one. So we best pick our mark. We don't need Lynch, Shiel hasn't been linked to us. So maybe Gaff or Wingard at this stage, unless something comes along like a Kelly. But we have the cash, but we need to pick the right one because after a big signing we will be limited to trading in medium range players, or that's my guess.

This is it Joe. I'm not saying we have billions freed, but enough to get ONE good player if we can land them. There are many small or medium savings that when combined give us the ability to be 'aggressive' as the club says we will be. It's the accumulation of these gains from different areas that conclude me to think we have a bucket of salary cap to pursue ONE good player.

[Rocket Science]

I am really hoping we are chasing Gaff. I think he is gettable, but depends whether we can convince him we are a club he wants to play with.

https://preview.ibb.co/fSu9Xz/IMG_7051.jpg (https://ibb.co/h7Dgee)

Righto, who's Gaff's best mate from under age footy?

[bulldogtragic]

Salary cap and list management, does seem a complex issue.

The media seem to be suggesting that Gold Coast have salary cap issues, despite losing Tom Lynch and being an on field basket case.

Yet there are some Victorian clubs that seem to have very flexible arrangements that allow them to pay top dollar with near impunity.
Although the lack of depth at Geelong and Hawthorn does indicate that it is having some impact on them. It will be interesting to see how Richmond handle the apparent signing of Tom Lynch within their salary cap.

I think there's an interesting thread just on the topping up strategy of those big clubs. Whether it actually works, or just fattens the top end talent, and have nothing worthwhile around them. There's not any player like a LeBron James that you can build a starting side with, especially with 18 players and not 5. My guess is Geelong and maybe even Hawthorn might just live in no-mans land on the ladder.

As for Richmond, surely they have to move a few on. I can't believe GCS are at salary cap!!?! Crazy!

[1eyedog]

You often mention a bucket of salary saved when players depart, but Biggs and Smith would have been (or should have been) on basic wages. Any replacement (even Gowers as an upgraded rookie) would utilise the wages of one of them.

While Roughy was in the top 10% (RFA), Dahl was on less (URFA). A player like Gaff would surely take (at least) the combined salary of both and there is still another list spot to pay someone to fill.

I really don't see the savings you see. We also need to sign Bont on significant money.

We were allegedly throwing around close to 800k for Hurley a few years ago. With the departures I think there's money there for Gaff if we're keen.

[Templeton31]

We were allegedly throwing around close to 800k for Hurley a few years ago. With the departures I think there's money there for Gaff if we're keen.

I wonder about Steven May. I thought there were rumours a few years ago we were trying to get him from GC and obviously he's a similar sort of player to Hurley (who we didn't get!). No information just a thought.

[Mofra]

As for Richmond, surely they have to move a few on. I can't believe GCS are at salary cap!!?! Crazy!
Jacob Townsend, set to be pushed out and I think he'd be a perfect cheap option. 25 yo and a decent size who in the last two years has gone at better than a goal per game.

[bulldogtragic]

Jacob Townsend, set to be pushed out and I think he'd be a perfect cheap option. 25 yo and a decent size who in the last two years has gone at better than a goal per game.

Yeah, but what are they asking for him?

[1eyedog]

Yeah, but what are they asking for him?

You would expect unders if he's getting squeezed out.

[Mofra]

Yeah, but what are they asking for him?
Nothing as yet, they haven't officially let anyone go.
One article mentioned weeks ago that he has no contract offer as Richmond was waiting for the Lynch decision.

We have a unique opportunity to pick off a couple of their mid/forwards on the cheap to bolster our weakest area. We should use it.

[Bulldog Joe]

This is it Joe. I'm not saying we have billions freed, but enough to get ONE good player if we can land them. There are many small or medium savings that when combined give us the ability to be 'aggressive' as the club says we will be. It's the accumulation of these gains from different areas that conclude me to think we have a bucket of salary cap to pursue ONE good player.

I did see that, but when you include Biggs, Clay Smith, Redpath and Adams, I don`t see any saving as I feel they account for base level only and their wage is covered by upgrades to Gowers and extension to draftees alone.

Any saving from Dahlhaus is probably spent on what we need to do for Bont, while Roughead `s wage has probably already gone on the new contract for Macrae.

[bulldogtragic]

Nothing as yet, they haven't officially let anyone go.
One article mentioned weeks ago that he has no contract offer as Richmond was waiting for the Lynch decision.

We have a unique opportunity to pick off a couple of their mid/forwards on the cheap to bolster our weakest area. We should use it.

What’s we worth trade wise?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Would we be happy enough if we lost Dahlhaus, Adams and Roughead, picked up a fringe type (ie. Lloyd) and then hit the draft with a Top 10 Pick and West?

Personally I think we are young enough. If we are delisting the likes of Campbell then we are seriously getting thin in ruck stocks too.

This is an important off-season for us. If we replace our senior heads with kids and get a few injuries next year, we'll be bottom 4. Fully appreciate that there's not much we can do if we can't convince a Gaff/Shiel type but I don't want to see us enter another 3-5 year rebuild.

[bulldogtragic]

I did see that, but when you include Biggs, Clay Smith, Redpath and Adams, I don`t see any saving as I feel they account for base level only and their wage is covered by upgrades to Gowers and extension to draftees alone.

Any saving from Dahlhaus is probably spent on what we need to do for Bont, while Roughead `s wage has probably already gone on the new contract for Macrae.

I see it another way, with an accumulation of small and medium savings that allow us to go for one good player. I guess we will see during the trade period, if we can convince one to want to come to us first in the beginning.

[Axe Man]

I did see that, but when you include Biggs, Clay Smith, Redpath and Adams, I don`t see any saving as I feel they account for base level only and their wage is covered by upgrades to Gowers and extension to draftees alone.

Any saving from Dahlhaus is probably spent on what we need to do for Bont, while Roughead `s wage has probably already gone on the new contract for Macrae.

Adams should be on an ok contract after re-signing for 3 years and us potentially sweetening it to fight off the go home factor (unsuccessfully apparently). I do agree it's hard to see massive cost savings but it really is all guess work as it's impossible to know all the contract amounts and how they are structured. If Gold Coast have a tight salary cap it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we could as well.

[Axe Man]

What’s we worth trade wise?

Very little I would think. Fringe types are rarely worth much at the trade table, see Hvovat, Koby Stevens, etc.

[bulldogtragic]

Very little I would think. Fringe types are rarely worth much at the trade table, see Hvovat, Koby Stevens, etc.

Ta. I know less than nothing about him.

[Bulldog4life]

Couldn't read all as I can't log onto to Herald website but bit I did read is that Adams has a girlfriend in Brighton and is happy to stay here. I wonder if it was the club that asked him if he wanted to leave?

[Axe Man]

Couldn't read all as I can't log onto to Herald website but bit I did read is that Adams has a girlfriend in Brighton and is happy to stay here. I wonder if it was the club that asked him if he wanted to leave?

Apparently Adams would like to leave to anywhere, strange.


Western Bulldogs defender Marcus Adams is weighing up his future and could ask for a fresh start.

Adams, 25, has endured three frustrating seasons where he has managed just 27 games because of injuries.

The Dogs regard Adams as a required player with the clean-marking defender a key to the club’s backline.

The West Australian considered a move home in 2016 before deciding to stay at Whitten Oval, where he is contracted until 2020.

While Adams is not homesick and believed to be open to a move anywhere, if a suitable deal cannot be brokered he is also open to remaining at the Bulldogs.

Adams’ girlfriend is from Brighton and he is happy to remain in Melbourne.

The Dogs have recently locked away Tory Dickson, Lin Jong, Toby McLean, Dale Morris and Fergus Greene to new deals.

The Herald Sun revealed in June that the Dogs were also chasing Tiger Sam Lloyd, who is likely to leave Punt Rd along with Anthony Miles and speedster Connor Menadue.

West Australian Reece Conca also remains out of contract.

Gold Coast appears certain to snap up Miles, 26, and Bulldog Mitch Honeychurch, 23 in trade period.

Miles attracted interest from about five clubs, including Essendon, but is set for the Suns.

Miles (one game in 2018) and Honeychurch (13) have been unable to cement positions at their clubs but should arrive from the past two premiership clubs with good training habits.

Link (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/afl-daily-live-rolling-footy-news-from-around-australia-for-september-7-2018/live-coverage/4d0fda9fa0118e0fddf4df2e6e94bc67)


If someone offers a deal too good to refuse let him go, otherwise he stays. At least there may be a bigger market for his services that just the WA teams.

[chef]

So hes happy to move anywhere or stay put. Weird.

[hujsh]

Seems like a typo honestly

[GVGjr]

Perhaps he isn't impressed by our medicos?

[Bulldog4life]

Perhaps he isn't impressed by our medicos?

Thought the same thing. Surely not.

[SlimPickens]

Thought the same thing. Surely not.

Why not? I wouldn’t be, the management of his injuries has been amateur.

[Bulldog4life]

Why not? I wouldn’t be, the management of his injuries has been amateur.

Tongue in my cheek.:)

[GVGjr]

If Adams makes some noise about going to a non WA based club it would be a strange decision given that when he is fit he is clearly in the best 22 and he also seems to have a very good rapport with Bevo.

I'm going to wait until there are some more credible sources of information on this but he has a contract with us and it would need a good offer before I would let him walk to another club.
I wouldn't put the specimen in the special bin

[bulldogsthru&thru]

So hes happy to move anywhere or stay put. Weird.

Was the same thing two years ago

[bulldogtragic]

Perhaps he isn't impressed by our medicos?


Thought the same thing. Surely not.


Why not? I wouldn’t be, the management of his injuries has been amateur.

That was my reading too. If he thinks he can actually play high level footy (he can), but thinks our medico's are denying him that opportunity, I can certainly see why he and his manager are floating his willingness to go anywhere but here. But. But, there's another two years sitting on a contract do there's no way in hell that we should take anything less than a good trade.

If WCE were leading I would add him in the mix with pick 7 for Gaff, if we are in the hunt for Gaff. However if he will go anywhere, GWS would love a defender like him so perhaps Adams & pick 7 for a very good player. A stand alone trade would probably not give us the best return. Or he stays begrudgingly.

[bornadog]

If Adams makes some noise about going to a non WA based club it would be a strange decision given that when he is fit he is clearly in the best 22 and he also seems to have a very good rapport with Bevo.

I'm going to wait until there are some more credible sources of information on this but he has a contract with us and it would need a good offer before I would let him walk to another club.
I wouldn't put the specimen in the special bin

Well when I mentioned a credible source on here that he is actually happy in Melbourne, it wasn't believed.

[Bulldog Joe]

So hes happy to move anywhere or stay put. Weird.
Would it be unreasonable to think that he is unhappy with the fitness and medical side of things.

Sorry I posted before reading the rest of thread. Obviously my thoughts mirror those of others

[chef]

Would it be unreasonable to think that he is unhappy with the fitness and medical side of things.

Sorry I posted before reading the rest of thread. Obviously my thoughts mirror those of others

Maybe, not like he copped recurring injuries though. The foot and ankle stuff he had are just unfortunate and im not sure the club can be blamed for them.

Maybe he just wants a fresh start?

Maybe he doesnt like Bevo?

Maybe......

[AndrewP6]

He's happy to go and happy to stay. He's just a happy sort of fella I guess.

[kruder]

If Adams is happy to move to another Melbourne club its seriously disappointing.

[ledge]

Most confusing article I’ve ever read he wants to leave but happy to stay , same story as last year. Makes out he wants out but then mentions he is happy to stay.
An article about nothing because he couldn’t find a story ?

[SonofScray]

Move him on. I'm not impressed with this at all.

He's seductive. Big bodied, good tackler, strong in the air. But he never gets on the park and when he did this year, was quite poor one in one. The idea of him is terrific, a cornerstone of defence. But the lived experience is actually underwhelming. This sulky attitude exacerbates that.

Sell. Sell. Sell.

[ledge]

I have a question after reading Dangerfield admits talking to a player Geelong wants to recruit, that’s getting a player to do your dirty work and poaching in my opinion.
Shouldn’t it be between player, clubs and managers What’s the thoughts on this ?

[DOG GOD]

I have a question after reading Dangerfield admits talking to a player Geelong wants to recruit, that’s getting a player to do your dirty work and poaching in my opinion.
Shouldn’t it be between player, clubs and managers What’s the thoughts on this ?

I have no doubt it happens, it’s just that 99% of players would keep their mouths shut about it...Dangerfield is the 1% that doesn’t...but yeah I agree with you that it is poaching in the sense if the club has put the player to get into the ear of the prospective recruit ;)

[EasternWest]

I have a question after reading Dangerfield admits talking to a player Geelong wants to recruit, that’s getting a player to do your dirty work and poaching in my opinion.
Shouldn’t it be between player, clubs and managers What’s the thoughts on this ?

How would you feel about Bontempelli chatting to his best mate Kelly about joining the Dogs?

Players talk to each other all the time, I really couldn't care about it.

[Twodogs]

How would you feel about Bontempelli chatting to his best mate Kelly about joining the Dogs?

Players talk to each other all the time, I really couldn't care about it.

It depends on how Kelly's knee is after yesterday. ;)

[EasternWest]

It depends on how Kelly's knee is after yesterday. ;)

Good point.

Maybe some Bulldogs players should sound out that young up and comer Callan Ward to see if he would be keen on joining the Dogs.

[bulldogtragic]

How would you feel about Bontempelli chatting to his best mate Kelly about joining the Dogs?

Players talk to each other all the time, I really couldn't care about it.

Or Trengove trying to talk Impey into joining him at the dogs?

[EasternWest]

Or Trengove trying to talk Impey into joining him at the dogs?

Exactly.

[The Doctor]

Or Trengove trying to talk Impey into joining him at the dogs?

I'd rather he talked Wingard into joining the Dogs

[bulldogtragic]

I'd rather he talked Wingard into joining the Dogs

There's still time.

[Twodogs]

Good point.

Maybe some Bulldogs players should sound out that young up and comer Callan Ward to see if he would be keen on joining the Dogs.


Speaking of stray knees. God I love Zaine Cordy.:cool:

[bornadog]

How would you feel about Bontempelli chatting to his best mate Kelly about joining the Dogs?

Players talk to each other all the time, I really couldn't care about it.

They go on holidays together ;)

Kelly may be trying to convince The Bont to go to GWS :eek:

[Grantysghost]

It's one thing talking to your mate about joining you, there's a social element to that. Very different representing your club as it's biggest name and coercing a contracted player to join that organisation.

[EasternWest]

They go on holidays together ;)

Kelly may be trying to convince The Bont to go to GWS :eek:

Hmm. Never thought of that.

[EasternWest]

It's one thing talking to your mate about joining you, there's a social element to that. Very different representing your club as it's biggest name and coercing a contracted player to join that organisation.

So because he's a big name he can't be mates and have the same conversation. Got it.

[Grantysghost]

So because he's a big name he can't be mates and have the same conversation. Got it.

You've lost me. Danger isn't mates with Dalhaus, he contacted him as a representative of the cats. Bont and Kelly are friends. That's my issue. Big name can't have mates ? Not sure, hopefully they can.

[EasternWest]

You've lost me. Danger isn't mates with Dalhaus, he contacted him as a representative of the cats. Bont and Kelly are friends. That's my issue. Big name can't have mates ? Not sure, hopefully they can.

This article https://www.sportingnews.com/au/afl/news/luke-dahlhaus-patrick-dangerfield-geelong-western-bulldogs/17nssib4a2d451gdcrw79nym97 says they're "close mates". I've no idea if that's true.

Isn't any player that talks to another player about joining them representing their club? I don't see what you're up in arms about. I expect these conversations go on all the time, and have done for years.

[GVGjr]

I know he has had some challenges with concussion but would Kade Kolodjashnij from Gold Coast be worth have a chat to?

I think he is coming out of contract at the end of the season

[divvydan]

Certainly worth having a chat to and getting a better idea of his long term medical issues. Looked a very promising player before the concussions started.

[Go_Dogs]

Certainly worth having a chat to and getting a better idea of his long term medical issues. Looked a very promising player before the concussions started.

Agreed. Angus Brayshaw a good example of a player quickly turning it around with a bit of better luck. I’d be very happy if we could snare KK.

[Grantysghost]

This article https://www.sportingnews.com/au/afl/news/luke-dahlhaus-patrick-dangerfield-geelong-western-bulldogs/17nssib4a2d451gdcrw79nym97 says they're "close mates". I've no idea if that's true.

Isn't any player that talks to another player about joining them representing their club? I don't see what you're up in arms about. I expect these conversations go on all the time, and have done for years.

Fair enough, I'm not a big fan of it but you make some valid points. Certainly not up in arms, more mildly miffed. I'm pretty sure they didn't send George Horlin-Smith out to talk to him.

[EasternWest]

Fair enough, I'm not a big fan of it but you make some valid points. Certainly not up in arms, more mildly miffed. I'm pretty sure they didn't send George Horlin-Smith out to talk to him.

Ha ha.

Fair enough too. I want to pilfer every good player in the league, so I accept the pendulum swings the other way too.

[SquirrelGrip]

Our defensive forward pressure this year was off the mark, with Dickson and Picken out, Dahlhaus leaving and the rest left to talls or newbies, who are targeting to fix this? Sam Lloyd is surely not that defensive pressure player, nor Billings (although getting Billings is a plus for us).

Is the answer trade/draft/rookie and if so who - all strong teams have manic forward pressure which requires speed and tackling efficiency.

[Sedat]

I know he has had some challenges with concussion but would Kade Kolodjashnij from Gold Coast be worth have a chat to?

I think he is coming out of contract at the end of the season
I like his disposal skills and athleticism but can he defend one-on-one when needed down back? He's certainly better than his gumby brother.

[Mofra]

I know he has had some challenges with concussion but would Kade Kolodjashnij from Gold Coast be worth have a chat to?

I think he is coming out of contract at the end of the season
Really good player but I'd prefer we target needs, which for mine is forward of the ball not behind it.

[GVGjr]

Really good player but I'd prefer we target needs, which for mine is forward of the ball not behind it.

Very good point. I think if he was available on the cheap he could be worth at least having a talk to.

[SonofScray]

Have seen Rory Atkins' name linked with us as a target for trade on twitter on bigfooty. He'd be a good get I think, left footer, can run and carry the footy, probably plateaued a bit this season in a toxic Adelaide camp.

[bornadog]

Will Hayes did well in the Liston:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dmu_P4hV4AAbSAg.jpg

[Topdog]

Alex Woodward played 8 matches and came 3 points from winning after 4 knee recos.

[GVGjr]

Alex Woodward played 8 matches and came 3 points from winning after 4 knee recos.

He's a terrific player, shame about his injuries.

[Twodogs]

He's a terrific player, shame about his injuries.

I often wonder about the game we play and the number of injuries (especially knee injuries) it generates. I wonder how much longer we can just afford to shrug our shoulders and say "oh well see you in 12 months" every time a player does his knee?

I don't know what we can do to fix the problem, I'm just thinking out loud.

[Dry Rot]

Wingard vs Gaff.

Who would you prefer we get?

[The Doctor]

Wingard vs Gaff.

Who would you prefer we get?

good question.

Wingard

[kruder]

Just as we discuss Chad another video of Rozee pops up ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Em6M2F7Xg90

Enjoy!

[bulldogtragic]

Wingard vs Gaff.

Who would you prefer we get?


good question.

Wingard

The Chad too. On goal scoring ability.

[bornadog]

Wingard vs Gaff.

Who would you prefer we get?

Gaff - purely on form over their career. Gaff was a Brownlow favourite before his indiscretion

[Happy Days]

Wingard; not to say that I wouldn't love Gaff but Wingard's back half of 2018 convinced me he can do it all.

[Rocket Science]

Wingard vs Gaff.

Who would you prefer we get?

Kelly.

Gaff and Wingard are nice, but they're 'cream' players who'll demand 'cake' money.

I'd rather we continue Bont's offseason whispering campaign until Kelly sees the light.

Plus, we still owe them for Ward.

[DOG GOD]

Kelly.

Gaff and Wingard are nice, but they're 'cream' players who'll demand 'cake' money.

I'd rather we continue Bont's offseason whispering campaign until Kelly sees the light.


Plus, we still owe them for Ward.

Totally agree...if we want the best, we go for the best...KELLY.

[bornadog]

A couple of snippets from the HUN:

Mitch Honeychurch


Linked to Gold Coast, but they have told the Western Bulldogs they aren’t interested as he tries to find a new home with more opportunities.

Jordan Roughead


Open to moving to a new club at the end of the year after spending most of this season in the VFL. Met West Coast recently. His manager says he’s been approached by “a number of clubs”. St Kilda is known to be interested. Restricted free agent.

[bulldogtragic]

A couple of snippets from the HUN:

Mitch Honeychurch


Linked to Gold Coast, but they have told the Western Bulldogs they aren’t interested as he tries to find a new home with more opportunities.

Jordan Roughead


Open to moving to a new club at the end of the year after spending most of this season in the VFL. Met West Coast recently. His manager says he’s been approached by “a number of clubs”. St Kilda is known to be interested. Restricted free agent.

Hopefully Roughy gets a good contract for him, and for compo reasons. I'm not sure why anyone would trade for Honeychurch, GWS seemed happy to take him last year for nothing, only. To give him the best chance we should delist him and let him use the delisted free agency status to find a new home.

[G-Mo77]

So HC is linked to Gold Coast but they aren't interested. Ok, which one is it.

[Dry Rot]

Do you favour trading our first round pick for an established gun, or stick to the draft?

Trading first round picks has worked for the Hawks, Pies and Tigers, and failed miserably for the Cats.

[GVGjr]

So HC is linked to Gold Coast but they aren't interested. Ok, which one is it.

They're probably interested but want him at the back of the draft or as a delisted FA

[Testekill]

So HC is linked to Gold Coast but they aren't interested. Ok, which one is it.

They're probably betting that we delist Honeychurch since he'd then be available for free.

[Twodogs]

So HC is linked to Gold Coast but they aren't interested. Ok, which one is it.


They're probably betting that we delist Honeychurch since he'd then be available for free.


They're probably interested but want him at the back of the draft or as a delisted FA

Exactly. Why give a draft pick away (even if they probably won't use it) when they can get him for nothing?

[Rocket Science]

So HC is linked to Gold Coast but they aren't interested. Ok, which one is it.

Yes, in much the same way I'm linked to Emily Blunt but she's just not that interested.

If Mitch is playing a higher level than A grade ammos next year he'll be doing well.

[Twodogs]

Yes, in much the same way I'm linked to Emily Blunt but she's just not that interested.

If Mitch is playing a higher level than A grade ammos next year he'll be doing well.

I'm still in the line for a foot massage from Uma Thurman but I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen now.

[bulldogtragic]

I'm still in the line for a foot massage from Uma Thurman but I'm pretty sure it's not going to happen now.

Lucky it's not the other way around, or you'd end up like Antwan Rockamora, aka Tony Rocky Horror.

[EasternWest]

Lucky it's not the other way around, or you'd end up like Antwan Rockamora, aka Tony Rocky Horror.

Now look, I've given a million ladies a million foot massages, and they all meant something.

[bulldogtragic]

Now look, I've given a million ladies a million foot massages, and they all meant something.

Would you give me a foot massage?

[EasternWest]

Would you give me a foot massage?

Fork you.

[1eyedog]

Wingard vs Gaff.

Who would you prefer we get?

Wingard's a jet. For 5 games a year. I'll take Gaff. His ceiling is lower but his weekly output far higher.

[jeemak]

Yes, in much the same way I'm linked to Emily Blunt but she's just not that interested.

If Mitch is playing a higher level than A grade ammos next year he'll be doing well.

This is just rubbish RS, he's clearly good enough for any level in Australia other than AFL - albeit having shown glimpses that he may eventually make the level earlier in his career.

A guy who tried his guts out for us but ultimately didn't make it shouldn't have shit put on him like this.

[Jeanette54]

A guy who tried his guts out for us but ultimately didn't make it shouldn't have shit put on him like this.


Totally agree Jeemak, I wish this forum would just leave Mitch alone. Nobody could possibly accuse him of giving less than 100% effort, and you cannot ask any more than that.

[westdog54]

This is just rubbish RS, he's clearly good enough for any level in Australia other than AFL - albeit having shown glimpses that he may eventually make the level earlier in his career.

A guy who tried his guts out for us but ultimately didn't make it shouldn't have shit put on him like this.

This.

The cheapshotting of Honeychurch by some is becoming absurd.

He's not going to make it in the AFL and that's fine, many others don't. He was a late pick that didn't come off but he wouldn't have been picked as often as he did if he hadn't been earning the chance in the eyes of the MC.

[GVGjr]

This is just rubbish RS, he's clearly good enough for any level in Australia other than AFL - albeit having shown glimpses that he may eventually make the level earlier in his career.

A guy who tried his guts out for us but ultimately didn't make it shouldn't have shit put on him like this.

I like Honeychurch and from an effort perspective it's not his fault he hasn't quite made it.

[jeemak]

Picked at number 60 because of his physical stature he was still Vic Metro's most valuable player in the championships and was named in the U/18 - AA team.

He's played 35 AFL games and may play some more.

[Rocket Science]

Dear me that escalated quickly.

I might've been exaggerating for effect, perhaps what I should have said was SURE the Suns are interested.

Aye there's been some boots put into #22 this year and no he can't be faulted for not having a dip but the sooner he's in another club's colours the better off we'll be.

If the Suns are saying yeah nah, who among us sincerely reckons that'll be at AFL level?

[LostDoggy]

Can recall a few occassions where Honey has missed or nearly missed the ball when kicking. Bizarre that he has played as much AFL footy as he has. Good luck to him I guess.

Nothing against Honey but I'd be pretty disappointed if he is retained. Big black mark against Power if Honey is retained IMO.

[Twodogs]

I like Honeychurch and from an effort perspective it's not his fault he hasn't quite made it.

He has certainly left nothing behind in trying to prove he is AFL standard. It'd be nice if a few more on the list made the same effort that he does.

If we keep on picking him then what's he supposed to say "no, look thanks for everything fellers but it's time to give someone else a go"

[azabob]

Interesting stat from Sir Swamp Things off Twitter

I was surprised we are so high on the list.

Players in 2018 who are still at same club as they were at in 2012 (start of 18 team comp)

14 ADEL GWS HAW WBD WCE
13
12 RICH
11 FREM GEEL SYD
10 GCS
9 ESS NTH PORT
8 COLL STK
7
6 CARL
5 BRIS
4 MELB

[S Coast Simon]

I personally would love Kelly at our club and would love Gaff and would love Wingard but the money there talking about is out of control. We paid way overs for Boyd but that was a little revenge involved as well. these players offered over a million dollars a season are only worth about 750 to 800 at their existing clubs. And should only be worth this much at the new club. North especially are so desperate to get one they offer ridiculous amounts of money and length of contract. The pressure on them at a new club on that sort of money is a lot to burden. As long as we avoid pick six we will get a dam good player in the first round. That Rozee (sorry if not correct spelling) would be a very nice edition. The video posted earlier seemed to be from one game. If so he is a pretty smooth mover with great skills.

[SonofScray]

Mackenzie out retired from WCE, perhaps that shines a bigger light on Adams prospects of going home?

[Mantis]

Mackenzie out retired from WCE, perhaps that shines a bigger light on Adams prospects of going home?

If MacKenzie was a member of their best 22 it might be a strong possibility, but Adams would be behind McGovern & Barrass who play similar roles so I'm not sure there would be much interest from both parties... unless the pull to return to WA meant he was happy to go even if he wasn't assured of a spot in their best 22.

[Happy Days]

If MacKenzie was a member of their best 22 it might be a strong possibility, but Adams would be behind McGovern & Barrass who play similar roles so I'm not sure there would be much interest from both parties... unless the pull to return to WA meant he was happy to go even if he wasn't assured of a spot in their best 22.

I have a sneaking suspicion that for whatever reason they don't rate Barrass all that much.

[lemmon]

I have a sneaking suspicion that for whatever reason they don't rate Barrass all that much.

I've always thought that Barrass was the stopper that allows McGovern to have freedom to zone off and intercept. Not sure Adams can do that.

[Bulldog4life]

Ricky Nixon
‏@rickynixontoot
16h16 hours ago
More
Sam Lloyd out of TiggggerTown to Doogies

[Mofra]

I've always thought that Barrass was the stopper that allows McGovern to have freedom to zone off and intercept. Not sure Adams can do that.
Tom Cole showed some real signs as well, not sure if he's a legitimate KPD but seems highly rated.

[Axe Man]

Tom Cole showed some real signs as well, not sure if he's a legitimate KPD but seems highly rated.

Cole isn't a KPD at all, he's 186cm.

Barrass is a very good player and a fine intercept mark as well. They also have Schofield who is solid. Not sure they have any great need for Adams who I think would find it harder to get a game at the Eagles than he does here.

[1eyedog]

I have a sneaking suspicion that for whatever reason they don't rate Barrass all that much.

Barrass is young and way good enough already. I don't think 1m is outrageous money anymore. Sure the Franklin's / Boyd's were trailblazers but pretty soon, like now, every elite talent is going to be around the mark.

[mjp]

I personally would love Kelly at our club and would love Gaff and would love Wingard but the money there talking about is out of control.

People keep saying this...why??? The salary cap is the salary cap...if there is $300K difference between the minimum and the average...and a lot of guys are on the minimum, well - that means there are a lot of players earning a LOT more.

800K for Gaff - a multiple All Australian mid in his mid 20's - seems like UNDERS.

[Twodogs]

People keep saying this...why??? The salary cap is the salary cap...if there is $300K difference between the minimum and the average...and a lot of guys are on the minimum, well - that means there are a lot of players earning a LOT more.

800K for Gaff - a multiple All Australian mid in his mid 20's - seems like UNDERS.

Exactly. We have to pay the money to somebody. Whether that is right or wrong is a different story for another day.

[ledge]

Exactly. We have to pay the money to somebody. Whether that is right or wrong is a different story for another day.
Thinking about salary cap , should there be a maximum set on the most you can pay a player a year ? Eg a team can only pay a maximum of 1 million a year to a player .

[bornadog]

Thinking about salary cap , should there be a maximum set on the most you can pay a player a year ? Eg a team can only pay a maximum of 1 million a year to a player .
Too many people get hung up on what players are paid. I for one don't care, as long as we get the right players on the list and don't lose the ones we want to keep.

[SlimPickens]

Thinking about salary cap , should there be a maximum set on the most you can pay a player a year ? Eg a team can only pay a maximum of 1 million a year to a player .

Could you imagine the song and dance the players would put on, if that was the case.

[The Doctor]

Stevo says we're having a crack in for Wingard!

[Testekill]

Stevo says we're having a crack in for Wingard!

Dude has been wasted in the midfield; Port should have never taken him & Gray out of the forward line. Hopefully we learn from them and keep him up forward.

[GVGjr]

Stevo says we're having a crack in for Wingard!

Does our first round pick get the deal done or will it need something else?

Part of me wants us to consider trading for a ready made player but given how far we have slipped back should we focus more on rebuilding from the draft rather than the trade table?

Also, if Lachie Neale is available would he be a better fit for us than Wingard?
Adams and our first pick gets that deal done and Fremantle would then have the chips to make a strong play for Hogan

[bulldogtragic]

Stevo says we're having a crack in for Wingard!

And let’s see what happens now!!

[The Doctor]

Does our first round pick get the deal done or will it need something else?

Part of me wants us to consider trading for a ready made player but given how far we have slipped back should we focus more on rebuilding from the draft rather than the trade table?

Also, if Lachie Neale is available would he be a better fit for us than Wingard?
Adams and our first pick gets that deal done and Fremantle would then have the chips to make a strong play for Hogan

pick 6 for Wingard

2019 1st pick + Adams for May

[SquirrelGrip]

Stevo says we're having a crack in for Wingard!

I think I could handle this.


https://youtu.be/Bldp0uaHlyQ

[Testekill]

Someone on Bigfooty described this as our Hawthorn/Burgoyne moment and it's difficult to argue with that statement. Sometimes you have to overpay to get it done but Wingard is a freak talent. Could use a kick up the arse at times and he's a bit of a smug shit but there's a lot to be excited about.

[bulldogtragic]

pick 6 for Wingard

2019 1st pick + Adams for May

So Wingard, May and rights over West, Khamis (2 GWV players), Liberatore, Kellett over 2 years. I guess that’s ok...

[EasternWest]

So Wingard, May and rights over West, Khamis (2 GWV players), Liberatore, Kellett over 2 years. I guess that’s ok...

You got us Boyd. I'm sure you can do this.

[GVGjr]

pick 6 for Wingard

2019 1st pick + Adams for May

This is one of the things that concerns me about Wingard
Wingard has played 147 games with Port Adelaide since he was a first-round call (No. 6) in the 2011 AFL national draft. But the great promise from Wingard’s first 50 games in 2012-13 — that were celebrate with the John Cahill Medal as club champion and All-Australian honours in 2013 — has not always held up in recent years.

After a career-high 53 goals in 2015 — his other All-Australian season — Wingard’s return on the scoreboard has fallen to 38 goals in 18 games in 2016, 24 from 19 last year and 22 from 21 this season when his form sharpened with a move to the midfield after drawing much criticism about his laconic form in attack.


I understand that many brilliant players are laconic in their nature but I want a genuine hunger in any payer we trade for. Over the last couple of years I've had my fill of players who don't appear to be giving their all.
Of course few of them have Wingards ability but I'd want to be sure he's going to show up for work each day and that we could get him back to being a real threat in the forward line. 20 to 30 goals a season wouldn't be enough for more and it would need to be closer to 35+

Failing that give me the next Naughton or Richards

[Axe Man]

Dude has been wasted in the midfield; Port should have never taken him & Gray out of the forward line. Hopefully we learn from them and keep him up forward.

I haven’t followed him but read his first half of the season in the forward line was poor and his second half predominantly in the midfield was excellent?

[bornadog]

This is one of the things that concerns me about Wingard
Wingard has played 147 games with Port Adelaide since he was a first-round call (No. 6) in the 2011 AFL national draft. But the great promise from Wingard’s first 50 games in 2012-13 — that were celebrate with the John Cahill Medal as club champion and All-Australian honours in 2013 — has not always held up in recent years.

After a career-high 53 goals in 2015 — his other All-Australian season — Wingard’s return on the scoreboard has fallen to 38 goals in 18 games in 2016, 24 from 19 last year and 22 from 21 this season when his form sharpened with a move to the midfield after drawing much criticism about his laconic form in attack.


I understand that many brilliant players are laconic in their nature but I want a genuine hunger in any payer we trade for. Over the last couple of years I've had my fill of players who don't appear to be giving their all.
Of course few of them have Wingards ability but I'd want to be sure he's going to show up for work each day and that we could get him back to being a real threat in the forward line. 20 to 30 goals a season wouldn't be enough for more and it would need to be closer to 35+

Failing that give me the next Naughton or Richards

I have said it before, I don't think he is an A -grader at the moment, and pick 7 is too generous.

[GVGjr]

I have said it before, I don't think he is an A -grader at the moment, and pick 7 is too generous.

On ability I don't think that is correct though. He's an immensely talented player and if we are confident of getting back close to his best then pick 7 seems about right. Does his form line warrant it though and have Port simply misused him?

My concerns are more about why he is wanting to leave because if it's just for money I don't think that is a great fit for us.
Also with Dickson and Picken signed on for next year and with Dunkley and Bontempelli spending time forward would we have a logjam for that mid sized forward role?
Does Wingard apply a lot of defensive forward pressure?

[bulldogtragic]

You got us Boyd. I'm sure you can do this.

I think Doc is onto an ‘aggressive’ strategy, which the club says we will be.

Pick 6 is a good start for Wingard. We have enough cap in my estimation to pursue a Wingard or Gaff. Wingard & Trengove are best mates, so we’ve got an inside track. We both like players of other clubs talking to other players. There’s something here.

May wants back to Victoria, and he knows we’ve wanted him for years. Adams wants a trade, and is arguably one of the best mature KPD that GCS could find. They need mature players, add in 2019 first rounder and that’s a good start.

They’re plausible starting points. Two first rounders, a potentially elite KPD and maybe a bit more is an aggressive strategy, but we say as a club that we are going to be aggressive. So let’s see if we back up the Wingard interest with another shot at May. Then there’s the rumours of Lloyd from Richmond for cheap as chips.

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dm-UoQYUYAAMbVM.jpg

[bulldogtragic]

Like in the 2018/19 preseason...

[Sedat]

This is one of the things that concerns me about Wingard
Wingard has played 147 games with Port Adelaide since he was a first-round call (No. 6) in the 2011 AFL national draft. But the great promise from Wingard’s first 50 games in 2012-13 — that were celebrate with the John Cahill Medal as club champion and All-Australian honours in 2013 — has not always held up in recent years.

After a career-high 53 goals in 2015 — his other All-Australian season — Wingard’s return on the scoreboard has fallen to 38 goals in 18 games in 2016, 24 from 19 last year and 22 from 21 this season when his form sharpened with a move to the midfield after drawing much criticism about his laconic form in attack.


I understand that many brilliant players are laconic in their nature but I want a genuine hunger in any payer we trade for. Over the last couple of years I've had my fill of players who don't appear to be giving their all.
Of course few of them have Wingards ability but I'd want to be sure he's going to show up for work each day and that we could get him back to being a real threat in the forward line. 20 to 30 goals a season wouldn't be enough for more and it would need to be closer to 35+

Failing that give me the next Naughton or Richards
His best is as good as almost anybody's and his worst is nowhere near as bad as has been made out. I am a massive fan of his talent - it simply doesn't exist in many footballers.

[jeemak]

This is one of the things that concerns me about Wingard
Wingard has played 147 games with Port Adelaide since he was a first-round call (No. 6) in the 2011 AFL national draft. But the great promise from Wingard’s first 50 games in 2012-13 — that were celebrate with the John Cahill Medal as club champion and All-Australian honours in 2013 — has not always held up in recent years.

After a career-high 53 goals in 2015 — his other All-Australian season — Wingard’s return on the scoreboard has fallen to 38 goals in 18 games in 2016, 24 from 19 last year and 22 from 21 this season when his form sharpened with a move to the midfield after drawing much criticism about his laconic form in attack.


I understand that many brilliant players are laconic in their nature but I want a genuine hunger in any payer we trade for. Over the last couple of years I've had my fill of players who don't appear to be giving their all.
Of course few of them have Wingards ability but I'd want to be sure he's going to show up for work each day and that we could get him back to being a real threat in the forward line. 20 to 30 goals a season wouldn't be enough for more and it would need to be closer to 35+

Failing that give me the next Naughton or Richards

How much time has he spent in the midfield these years since 2015? Appreciate your stance on effort, I agree.

We also need to be mindful that nabbing Naughton and Richards type quality players who perform in the first year of their careers across two, three or four drafts from pick nine and onward is pretty tough going - we did really well and I'm not sure we'll repeat the effort. They also look good now but we don't know if they will develop rapidly from what they have already shown, only time will tell on that front.

I think Wingard is genuinely worth taking a punt on with our first pick, especially given we'll be gifted West who is shaping as a mid to late first round selection anyway. If West wasn't coming our way, then I'd almost baulk at our first pick being used for the former, but he is and we should make the most of our chance to bring in ready made quality alongside a player who looks like he'll get into the swing of things very early in his career.

[ratsmac]

I have said it before, I don't think he is an A -grader at the moment, and pick 7 is too generous.
I think it's a buyers market for Wingard right now. Pick 7 might be too generous but I can't see Port budging on anything less.


On ability I don't think that is correct though. He's an immensely talented player and if we are confident of getting back close to his best then pick 7 seems about right. Does his form line warrant it though and have Port simply misused him?

My concerns are more about why he is wanting to leave because if it's just for money I don't think that is a great fit for us.
Also with Dickson and Picken signed on for next year and with Dunkley and Bontempelli spending time forward would we have a logjam for that mid sized forward role?
Does Wingard apply a lot of defensive forward pressure?

I think this is where the Bevo multi position policy applies. We already know he can play both forward and mid but he needs to be able to switch between both well under Bevo. I think we could find a nice little role for him

[bornadog]

His best is as good as almost anybody's and his worst is nowhere near as bad as has been made out. I am a massive fan of his talent - it simply doesn't exist in many footballers.


I think it's a buyers market for Wingard right now. Pick 7 might be too generous but I can't see Port budging on anything less.

Let's get it done.

We will still have a good first rounder equivalent in West, plus Dahl compo. I think pick7 and something back as well