Rate a team in 2008: the Pies

[Dry Rot]

The young Pies finished on a high note, really extending the Cats in the 07 PF. Their fans have high expectations for 2008, expecting further improvement from a range of exciting young players in a well drilled Malthouse side.

But does all this all stand up to scrutiny?

Clement will be a serious loss to an otherwise young backline and up forward Rocca isn't getting any younger. Their midfield isn't any faster, and the young ruck from the Lions (Wood?) won't immediately solve their ruck problems.

Scenario 1: They played above themselves last year, and good sides will find out their deficiencies in 2008. Finish 3 - 7.

Scenario 2: Young players really come on, the side is better than last year and IS the real deal. Finish 1 - 4.

Thoughts?

[Go_Dogs]

I think you have summed them up fairly well.

I for one thought that they over-achieved last year, had a good draw and a few of their younger players really played some great football.

Can they go all they way? I don't believe so. But they have an exciting group of match winners and goal kickers in players like Didak, Davis, Cloke, Pendlebury, Thomas, Swan etc.

[westdog54]

I think you have summed them up fairly well.

I for one thought that they over-achieved last year, had a good draw and a few of their younger players really played some great football.

Can they go all they way? I don't believe so. But they have an exciting group of match winners and goal kickers in players like Didak, Davis, Cloke, Pendlebury, Thomas, Swan etc.

They also have a player who I believe is just about the best young talent in the country, Marty Clarke.

Last year was the result of one year kicking an oval ball and playing our game, imagine him after 4-5 years of doing it.

Scary thought.

For now though, 5th-8th for the pies.

[hujsh]

Alot of their young player to struggle in their second year of good football 9-6

[G-Mo77]

I think this is one side that will drop off a bit this year along with Sydney.

All Collingwood supporters will claim that losing their veterns will not hurt because they were missing most of the year anyway. They may not have played but they will still there to lend support to the younger players. Rocca sucks and will be worse with another year under his belt they continue to live and die by him so they won't be going anywhere until he is gone or fased out, also as hujsh said I think a lot of their younger players may struggle as a lot do in their second year especially with their leadership group completely gone.

I hate the bastards so I hope for 16th, losses of huge ammounts of income and retirments of many of their players but seriouslly I think they will finish anywhere between 6th - 10th.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I'm not particularly sure where they'll finish, although I certainly believe a Top 6 finish would & should be their expectation.

One thing to note is their player development; they've been able to fast track a number of youngsters, and they've been rewarded in spades. Clarke as mentioned above is ever improving; fantastic foot skills already & pace to burn. Pendlebury & Thomas are natural identified talents, but Goldsack is another they've picked out of the rough. When you add these sorts of players to the likes of Cloke, Davis, Medhurst (all improved) then I don't think you can deny the quality that is there, regardless if it's A+ grade or not.

They have a few youngsters that haven't played too much footy - or any - that look potentially quality players too. (Eg. Reid)

They still have their weaknesses though and are probably a star midfielder & a star FB/CHB away. Had they of picked up Judd, it would of made their positioning very interesting.

I wonder how much influence a young ruck like Wood can have?

In any case, if The Pies can fill a few holes through drafting and/or recruiting then they should have a pretty impressive list within three or so years.

[hujsh]

All Collingwood supporters will claim that losing their veterns will not hurt because they were missing most of the year anyway. They may not have played but they will still there to lend support to the younger players. .

Too true.

Remember they didn't make the top 4 and wouldn't have done so well in the finals minus Clement and sort of Buckley. Clement did very well against WCE if my memory is right

[always right]

They don't look great on paper, they haven't solved their midfield woes, they no longer have Buckley, they still have unreliable Rocca, they lack key backmen, they are undermanned in the ruck.

Somehow they found a way to overcome these shortfalls and I expect they will again. Defying all logic, they will be fighting for the top six.....and the top eight as an absolute minimum......but we will beat them.

[LostDoggy]

My boss is a pies fan, her son who i work with is also a pies fan. I like so many others am a collingwood hater with a glorious passion. 1 Premiership in 15 years is nothing to gloat about, even if their history is better than ours.

Short n Sweet i dont think they have what it takes, fall short with a 5th or 6th position, get that home advantage but then stuff it up the week after. Loss of players like Clement & Buckley will be a negative to the younger players. We will beat them once again, and i can shove it in the fans faces. They drop games they should be dominating in and thats their downfall, your not a top 4 side when you get smashed by teams in the bottom 6 (Last year they lost to; Richmond, Doggies & Brisbane).

[hujsh]

My boss is a pies fan, her son who i work with is also a pies fan. I like so many others am a collingwood hater with a glorious passion. 1 Premiership in 15 years is nothing to gloat about, even if their history is better than ours.


You could say 1 in 49 years

[LostDoggy]

Ah touche` thats what i meant! makes our 54 since 54 look not too bad haha

[LostDoggy]

They don't look great on paper, they haven't solved their midfield woes, they no longer have Buckley, they still have unreliable Rocca, they lack key backmen, they are undermanned in the ruck.

Somehow they found a way to overcome these shortfalls and I expect they will again. Defying all logic, they will be fighting for the top six.....and the top eight as an absolute minimum......but we will beat them.

They have the umpiring and the AFL in their pocket they'll get in the 8 cos of that but they have a crap list compared to ours.

[Dry Rot]

they have a crap list compared to ours.

Come on Ernie, they have some great young players.

Better than ours? Dunno, but they took the Pies to a close PF in 2007 while ours were part of a woeful last 7 games.

[LostDoggy]

Come on Ernie, they have some great young players.

Better than ours? Dunno, but they took the Pies to a close PF in 2007 while ours were part of a woeful last 7 games.
Their young players are no better than ours just that anyone who plays for the Collingwood is a star.
We beat them easily when we were in form. They play on emotion more than any other club.
If we got thier umpiring we would have won some of our last 7 games.

[mjp]

Their young players are no better than ours just that anyone who plays for the Collingwood is a star.
We beat them easily when we were in form. They play on emotion more than any other club.
If we got thier umpiring we would have won some of our last 7 games.

Ernie - I love your work, but I can't have this. Too much like an excuse.

[Dry Rot]

Their young players are no better than ours just that anyone who plays for the Collingwood is a star.
We beat them easily when we were in form. They play on emotion more than any other club.
If we got thier umpiring we would have won some of our last 7 games.

I agree we have the Wood on them (sic).

But you said that their young players were crap compared to ours - I disagree.

Dunno if even all three unps could turn around our woeful last 7 game efforts.

[GVGjr]

Their young players are no better than ours just that anyone who plays for the Collingwood is a star.
We beat them easily when we were in form. They play on emotion more than any other club.
If we got thier umpiring we would have won some of our last 7 games.

I don't agree with the last comment but we don't suffer in a list comparison with them.
Their coach worked the miracles and they pumped a lot of games into their younger group which should benefit them but I doubt that a number of them have another level.

I think that the exposure of playing in front of bigger crowds lifts their younger guys.
Fancy getting Marty Clarke up and running like they did. Lets hope that was a lot to do with Gotch and that he can get some more out of a few of our blokes.

[LostDoggy]

Let me restate that. Umpiring is not an excuse for our club losing but its often a reason for Collingwood winning.

[mjp]

Lets hope that was a lot to do with Gotch and that he can get some more out of a few of our blokes.

Not sure we can say that though GVGjr. My take on things is twofold:

1/.Gotch is an excellent coach.
2/.He didn't get to do much actual coaching during the week at Collingwood, effectively being restricted to Williamstown duties.

I am very pleased with have him, but suspect that if we want to credit him with development of the young Collingwood boys, then it would have been related to his work on game-day in the VFL and not during the week at the Lexus centre. And I know where the players spend more time...

[GVGjr]

Not sure we can say that though GVGjr. My take on things is twofold:

1/.Gotch is an excellent coach.
2/.He didn't get to do much actual coaching during the week at Collingwood, effectively being restricted to Williamstown duties.

I am very pleased with have him, but suspect that if we want to credit him with development of the young Collingwood boys, then it would have been related to his work on game-day in the VFL and not during the week at the Lexus centre. And I know where the players spend more time...


I know what you mean but the Pies have developed their list and fast tracked some players a lot quicker than a few clubs. If Gotch has had something to do with that or is aware of what the Pies have done well then it should translate to a better development for us as well.

[dog town]

I remember reading a quote from Malthouse that was along the lines of their being no point drafting a kid and then having him sitting around eating bread rolls for two years. He has amazing faith in his kids. How many times have you seen someone say that a Malthouse side is playing above itself? 1-4

[Batman]

Pies are a wildcard. Could finish anywhere from 1 - 12 (reg season ladder).

Cloke is critical. I like their list. Don't seem to have a natural replacement for Burns if he gets injured (and likely too as he's older). No Licca or Bucks to fill the breach. Also defense looks thin and old...

But this is the team that ran Geelong to 5pts in the 2nd last week of Sept.

For me balance of probabilities has them around 9th.

[mighty_west]

Like alot of sides, injuries could be the key, i can also see them as a top 8 side.

Perhaps 4 - 8th

[LostDoggy]

I get a seriously weird pain in my stomach whenever I watch this mob play.

Especially with the recent history of Rocca tearing Murph's knee up with a clever bit of thuggery, effectively destroying our last two seasons. Murph was really flying up to that point in 2006, taking an average of 12 marks a game as a very, very mobile CHF, even starting to be talked up as potentially the best in the comp (certainly our best player up to that point). Fully fit, he would have made a huge difference to the team (even half-fit he manages to outshine most players when he gets the ball).

This team, as usual, will be over-rated, especially after last year's effort. I expect them to do a Hawthorn after their close prelim final loss to the Bombers a few years back and just drop out of sight for a couple of years. Malthouse is a very good coach but the game seems to be trying its darnedest to pass him by, although he is putting up a hell of a fight. List too young, too small-bodied, injuries will take their toll. (sound familiar?)

10th, Lexus Center be damned.

[LostDoggy]

I agree with those who think Collingwood were playing above themselves. The critics wrote them off after the defeat to us in the finals, and perhaps they did play on some emotion last year to prove the critics wrong. However this year, I can't see them getting up - I see them sitting 9-12.