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View Full Version : Dogs' duo 'could be like Josh Kennedy': Bevo



Bulldog4life
25-03-2018, 12:13 PM
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-03-25/dogs-duo-could-be-like-josh-kennedy-bevo

WESTERN Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge says young key forwards Tom Boyd and Josh Schache need to win senior selection through strong performances, but is confident the high-profile pair will develop into players of the calibre of West Coast star Josh Kennedy.

Both Boyd, 22, and Schache, 20, will line up for Footscray on Sunday in a VFL practice match against Geelong at Whitten Oval after missing senior selection for the Bulldogs' opening round clash with Greater Western Sydney in Canberra.

Boyd didn't feature in the JLT Community Series after a glute injury interrupted his pre-season, while recruit and former Lion Schache did little in a game and a half in the club's two hit-outs against Hawthorn and Collingwood.

Beveridge told AFL.com.au the pair will need to earn their spot in the AFL side through strong performances, but sees similarities in their struggles to Kennedy's fledgling years in the AFL.

Sore Boyd in a great frame of mind

The two-time Coleman Medallist only kicked 49 goals in his first 45 games compared to Boyd's 44 majors in his 49 career games to date, while Schache has kicked 25 goals from 27 games in two seasons in the AFL.

"They'll get picked based on how well they're playing and their appetite for the contest," Beveridge said.

"It's about making sure (the coaching staff are) transparent with our communications (to them) and the things that are going to make them really influential AFL players.

"If the boys can be relevant in all the phases, they can do their bit defensively, they're giving you a chance to get the footy back because at ground level they're nimble enough and they're providing the pressure that you need.

"Tom will search for his consistency that, over time, we maybe haven't got to yet, while Josh is a very young physically-developing key forward who will still take a bit of time.

"What we're pursuing is getting them to a point where they become someone like Josh Kennedy, and he took him some time."

Another thing the duo has in common with the Eagles' goal machine is that they're all top-five picks in the NAB AFL Draft and have been traded out of the club that originally selected them.

Carlton picked Kennedy with the No.4 pick in 2005, Boyd went to Greater Western Sydney at No.1 in 2013 and Schache landed at Brisbane with pick two in the 2015 talent pool.

With such a lofty rating comes great expectation, and Beveridge knows the external pressure on Boyd and Schache will intensify if they don't perform and spend long periods in the VFL.

Another possible concern is the pair's mental state after both needed time away from the game to deal with the all-encompassing nature of modern football.

"We'll need to manage the outside noise the best we can," Beveridge said.

"As long as we assure them they have bright futures, and the VFL is a good and healthy level that's going to help them get to where they need to go."

In an exclusive interview, Beveridge also expanded on his coaching values and several key players that will shape whether his side can return to the heady heights on 2016.

Beveridge on self-belief and game-style: I never question my philosophies or principles of our own style (after 2016). There was a lot of instability we didn't see coming, to a degree, but we were dealing with a competition that were stimulated with what we did (in the premiership win), and everyone was better at what we were doing than we were. It's very challenging for a player if they haven't got a really strong athletic profile to survive in the 22 and the game, and that's why Richmond (won the 2017 flag) because they had such a great combination of players that complimented each other around the ground. Core team defensive principles haven't changed, and we pride ourselves on a well-taught 18-man team defence, which we've still got a lot of work to do on. And the all-important one of using the footy better and defending less, comes a little bit with maturity, the coaching and we can't shy away from the reasonability of that.

Tory Dickson: He's searching for his best form after a bit of time out of the main program (over the pre-season), so we expect him to find his best footy, and when he does, he'll cement his spot in the side. He's done most of the work.

Toby McLean: He's had a really strong pre-season, and we're asking all our players to find new levels (of performance) and the signs are really good with him. We see him as a midfielder, more so than a forward. The A-graders of the competition have a great combination of speed and endurance and they're finishers or direct-assist players, and he can be one of those players. He's also got some aggression in his game and we covet that, so he could be considered externally as one of the better midfielders in the competition if he keeps on this journey.

Lewis Young: He is still learning, he's still only 19 and his form was pretty good when we first brought him into the team. Since then, it was a significant learning curve at senior level and he just needs to tighten up his game to convince us he's ready to be a permanent member of the team and a really, really good tall defender. He just needs to use the ball in a way that will help us defend and score.

Mitch Wallis: He hurt his back on Mooloolaba camp (in January) and he wasn't quite right, so in the lead up to the JLT series he missed a couple of weeks in the main program. He's in a position where we're looking for him to play some good footy, so he can force his way into the (senior) side. He needs to accentuate his strengths, (contested ball) around the footy and be a very good team-defensive player. He's more than capable. He's a capable kick on both feet and if there's a perceived lack of leg speed, he can cover that in other ways.

ratsmac
25-03-2018, 12:26 PM
Well there you go, we demanded answers on some out those left out of the round 1 side and Bevo answered.

bornadog
25-03-2018, 12:28 PM
Well there you go, we demanded answers on some out those left out of the round 1 side and Bevo answered.

There is always a reason why good players are left out.

Go_Dogs
25-03-2018, 12:30 PM
A couple of JK's would be nice, but happy to settle for a couple of blokes contributing to the senior side for now.

On the selections, seems we've made a decision re taking in anyone who is slightly underdone or not quite in form which is good - the game requires more athletic ability than ever and you can't carry players who aren't at 100%. Let's hope we see the benefits of this in the second half.

LostDoggy
25-03-2018, 12:47 PM
Some timely answers around some of our omissions, pleased this is the case, the supporters and members needed some clarification.

Hopefully we make pragmatic decisions about woods position on the field if necessary.

I would have selected one of Boyd or Schache for round 1, Redpath added to the selection fight next week.

mjp
25-03-2018, 01:14 PM
Awesome. This is the sort of story we have all been impatiently waiting for.

ledge
25-03-2018, 05:15 PM
Seems we are all talk and no action after today's effort.

chef
25-03-2018, 05:23 PM
I'd be happy for one of Shaq/Toyd to develop in the seniors rather than shoehorning an AA defender in there instead.

The Bulldogs Bite
25-03-2018, 05:31 PM
So do we see them as key forwards or rucks because they both appear to be playing more as rucks.

Ozza
25-03-2018, 06:22 PM
I liked the strategy of Rough, Trengrove, English and Wood all up forward - while Dunkley rucked. That was a good moment in today’s match! Maybe we could squeeze two more 200cms blokes into the forward 50 as well!! ;)

lemmon
25-03-2018, 06:25 PM
So do we see them as key forwards or rucks because they both appear to be playing more as rucks.

And is there a disconnect in how the list management team that traded them in sees them versus what Bevo thinks they're capable of

GVGjr
25-03-2018, 06:48 PM
So do we see them as key forwards or rucks because they both appear to be playing more as rucks.

I see them as forwards capable of doing some ruck work

Greystache
25-03-2018, 06:52 PM
I see them as forwards capable of doing some ruck work

It seems we think the way to develop a key forward is to play them as rucks, and in the VFL. Perhaps playing them in the position they've played their whole lives and are aiming to play at AFL level is too conventional? At least we're not playing them as rebounding half back flanks I guess.

azabob
25-03-2018, 06:53 PM
Seriously? Say it ain’t so...

GVGjr
25-03-2018, 07:00 PM
It seems we think the way to develop a key forward is to play them as rucks, and in the VFL. Perhaps playing them in the position they've played their whole lives and are aiming to play at AFL level is too conventional? At least we're not playing them as rebounding half back flanks I guess.

I'd nearly bet that Schache will be tried as a key defender at some time this season.

hujsh
25-03-2018, 07:29 PM
It seems we think the way to develop a key forward is to play them as rucks, and in the VFL. Perhaps playing them in the position they've played their whole lives and are aiming to play at AFL level is too conventional? At least we're not playing them as rebounding half back flanks I guess.
We don't rate rucks apparently so it's a good thing we spend all this time training our key forwards to do it.

bornadog
25-03-2018, 08:14 PM
I'd nearly bet that Schache will be tried as a key defender at some time this season.

It worked in 2016 to play Boyd in the ruck/fwd.

Since the ridiculous decision to restrict the interchange rucks have had to learn to become a forward as well as a ruck.

Yankee Hotel Foxtrot
25-03-2018, 09:06 PM
I will never forget the pivotal contributions Tom Boyd made to our premiership tilt. From the time Roughy went down following the ball to the eye, big Tom stepped up and delivered.
I think he was stiff to miss out on the Norm.
Since then he has barely fired a shot. I know there are some extenuating circumstances.
This is a pivotal year for him.

I'm not sure what to make of Schache. He's done nothing to date that makes me think he is elite talent at AFL level. Maybe I'm being overly cynical but I've thought that a part of the reason we traded for him was a PR exercise to try and mitigate the furore around losing Stringer for spare change. In the aftermath I recall Grant or McCartney indicating that we were able to turn the picks from Stringer into a win by picking up Schache.
I just don't see any presence or sense of urgency or desire in Schache. He looks quiet, tentative, and more like a bystander than someone who is going to make something out of nothing.
It worries me that not one other club tried to get him. We literally jumped in with only a couple of minutes left in trade week.

I would have preferred we tried to parlay Stringer picks into a stronger draft hand. Getting our hands on Darcy Fogarty would've been able to have been spun as a Stringer like replacement. Which is what we really need. Genuine X factor skill in the forward line.
Instead we have a disaster like today, having to cobble a forward line of Trengove and Wood whilst Boyd and Schache run in VFL praccy.
I could handle a crap year with a kid like Fogarty making strides.
Naughton will be good and in light of Morris and Adams falling over its fortuitous we picked him. But as like last year we actually had a lot of inside 50s but still got smashed. We need forwards; actually we need mids who can deliver the ball well into the 50..but in lieu of that we need forwards.
And Boyd and Schache are not in the frame..and by Bevo's post game comments aren't likely to be for a bit...so not sure when this pair of 'Josh Kennedy's in waiting' are going to contribute.
Would've been nice to see a Darcy Fogarty having a dip..

bornadog
25-03-2018, 09:08 PM
Give Shcache some time, he is a 20 year old 200cm player

The Adelaide Connection
25-03-2018, 11:46 PM
It seems we think the way to develop a key forward is to play them as rucks, and in the VFL. Perhaps playing them in the position they've played their whole lives and are aiming to play at AFL level is too conventional? At least we're not playing them as rebounding half back flanks I guess.

I came here to write exactly this. Both players have been elite at Junior level as forwards, we picked them up to be forwards, and we are really struggling in the forward line.

You know what might just work?

Playing them in the ruck and moving an AA defender who is an elite intercept mark to the forward line instead. Where he is sucking bad.

:confused:

Mantis
26-03-2018, 09:45 AM
I'd nearly bet that Schache will be tried as a key defender at some time this season.

Don't we have enough young talls already being developed in that area of the ground?

mjp
26-03-2018, 10:42 AM
It seems we think the way to develop a key forward is to play them as rucks, and in the VFL. Perhaps playing them in the position they've played their whole lives and are aiming to play at AFL level is too conventional? At least we're not playing them as rebounding half back flanks I guess.

But there is Redpath at VFL level as well...how many tall forwards can Footscray play in one side? This isn't a winning vs development comment - it is just unrealistic to trot out a forward line with Boyd, Schache and Redpath all in it...they wont learn a thing and the team will get smashed on the rebound.

I guess I know what you are saying but don't really know what to do about it.

Greystache
26-03-2018, 10:45 AM
But there is Redpath at VFL level as well...how many tall forwards can Footscray play in one side? This isn't a winning vs development comment - it is just unrealistic to trot out a forward line with Boyd, Schache and Redpath all in it...they wont learn a thing and the team will get smashed on the rebound.

I guess I know what you are saying but don't really know what to do about it.

Maybe not playing them all at Footscray could share the opportunities around.

GVGjr
26-03-2018, 10:50 AM
Don't we have enough young talls already being developed in that area of the ground?

I agree, I just think we will try something different Schache.

Sedat
26-03-2018, 11:07 AM
Structure and predictability wins premierships (except for 1997/98). Apart from Blighty and the Crows, I can't think of any other premiership team that won a flag through wild positional flexibility within the playing group. There are occasional swingmen that can impact on both ends of the ground (think Adam Hunter) but no team-wide flexibility mantra has proven to be successful thus far. Maybe Bevo is ahead of the curve and predicting the next trend in the game, or maybe the last 20 years of compelling evidence is all that's required to realise that a consistent game plan and predictable structure will win out.

bornadog
26-03-2018, 11:28 AM
Structure and predictability wins premierships (except for 1997/98). Apart from Blighty and the Crows, I can't think of any other premiership team that won a flag through wild positional flexibility within the playing group. There are occasional swingmen that can impact on both ends of the ground (think Adam Hunter) but no team-wide flexibility mantra has proven to be successful thus far. Maybe Bevo is ahead of the curve and predicting the next trend in the game, or maybe the last 20 years of compelling evidence is all that's required to realise that a consistent game plan and predictable structure will win out.

I know we all talk about flexibility but in reality, how many of the starting 22 play in a different position every week or are moved around alot?. The mids rest in th forward line beacse we need to save up our rotations. Yes we are trying something different with Wood (failing), but who else are we talking about?

In regards to rucks and forwards, well guess what we need a second ruckman, so we are developing that role with Boyd and Schache who happen to be 200cm tall. They both need to learn the 2nd ruck role as well as be effective forwards.

I don't understand why the criticism from some on this?

Ozza
26-03-2018, 12:20 PM
I know we all talk about flexibility but in reality, how many of the starting 22 play in a different position every week or are moved around alot?. The mids rest in th forward line beacse we need to save up our rotations. Yes we are trying something different with Wood (failing), but who else are we talking about?

In regards to rucks and forwards, well guess what we need a second ruckman, so we are developing that role with Boyd and Schache who happen to be 200cm tall. They both need to learn the 2nd ruck role as well as be effective forwards.

I don't understand why the criticism from some on this?

Bontempelli - spends considerably more time forward than he did in 2016.
Johannisen - moves to all 3 areas of the ground weekly.
Suckling - half back/half forward
Dunkley - forward/mid/ruck....and at one stage yesterday lined up on the backline - hard to tell on tv - but am seriously hoping he was only there as the 'extra' to come off the back of the square.
Trengove - destined to play everywhere.

And these are not to mention all of the mids who all play in the forward line at different stages - and very few of them are any good at playing there. (Dahl, Macrae, Libba, Daniel, Jong, Wallis etc etc).

No other team moves the magnets around like we do.

I know the game moves and changes and it is a few years since - but one of my best mates sat in the coaches box of one of our main rivals in the prelim years (2008-2010). I remember asking him before the finals how he was feeling and how hard the job is for those games - and his response was along the lines of;

"Against the good teams, its fairly easy on the match ups board to be honest, because the good teams keep their players settled in positions most of the night - its much harder against the ordinary teams, because they just throw their players around everywhere to see if they can get something to work for them".

It might not be 100% relevant as the game has evolved - but its an interesting enough observation - and ties in with Sedat's point that consistency and predictability has stood the test of time.

bornadog
26-03-2018, 12:44 PM
Bontempelli - spends considerably more time forward than he did in 2016.
Johannisen - moves to all 3 areas of the ground weekly.
Suckling - half back/half forward
Dunkley - forward/mid/ruck....and at one stage yesterday lined up on the backline - hard to tell on tv - but am seriously hoping he was only there as the 'extra' to come off the back of the square.
Trengove - destined to play everywhere.

And these are not to mention all of the mids who all play in the forward line at different stages - and very few of them are any good at playing there. (Dahl, Macrae, Libba, Daniel, Jong, Wallis etc etc).

No other team moves the magnets around like we do.

.

Mids in every team are resting in the forward line due to the restrictions placed on rotations. Most of your examples are mids resting forward and rotating. That is how we won a premiership.

The reason we were beaten on Sunday was GWS are more talented, more experienced (average 93.4 games to 68.6) and prepared to work harder than we did. Nothing to do with the out of positions for some players as you mention.

Once we get some experienced players in, things will hopefully change.