Are we a BASKETBALL team now?

[mjp]

After last week, the one thing I expected (above everything and anything else) was a physical response.

Say whatever you want about the first quarter - about effort, scoring, whatever else - all of it is WRONG. Whether we were 2 points down or 10 goals up I wouldn't have cared...to lay a total of 7x tackles in one quarter the week after an 82-point defeat is just not on.

Where are our heads at? Have we forgotten that football is a contact sport and that we might (just maybe) be well advised to go out on the ground and INITIATE SOME CONTACT?

I know the players aren't gutless and I know they aren't scared but they are not approaching the game with the correct mindset at the moment and the outcome of that is 7x tackles in the first quarter the week after a pretty embarrassing loss.

Watching Port play Sydney in the game after ours was a clear reminder of exactly how far we have fallen...after a poor first half, they came out and really fought the fight in q3 with Boak leading from the front. Us? Well, our skipper played in his usual position in the back half - you know, the spot he was selected in the All-Australian side in? And he proceeded to allow Liam Ryan (in his 2nd game) a 2 metre cushion in a marking contest...and Ryan did what anyone who has watched him in the last couple of years knew he would do - left up and took the mark (thankfully he missed the goal). For goodness sake, take a body, take his run and just compete...

Basketball. We are playing basketball. It is all about zoning off and ball movement and goodness knows what else.

Tackle someone. Make a physical impact. Play footy.

[bornadog]

My mate at the footy today commented we don't have enough aggression at the ball, we are too nice.

I agree with the OP, we are playing like basketball, we are losing contested poss. where in 2016 we we were returning incredible figures in this area.

[Twodogs]

After last week, the one thing I expected (above everything and anything else) was a physical response.

Say whatever you want about the first quarter - about effort, scoring, whatever else - all of it is WRONG. Whether we were 2 points down or 10 goals up I wouldn't have cared...to lay a total of 7x tackles in one quarter the week after an 82-point defeat is just not on.

Where are our heads at? Have we forgotten that football is a contact sport and that we might (just maybe) be well advised to go out on the ground and INITIATE SOME CONTACT?

I know the players aren't gutless and I know they aren't scared but they are not approaching the game with the correct mindset at the moment and the outcome of that is 7x tackles in the first quarter the week after a pretty embarrassing loss.

Watching Port play Sydney in the game after ours was a clear reminder of exactly how far we have fallen...after a poor first half, they came out and really fought the fight in q3 with Boak leading from the front. Us? Well, our skipper played in his usual position in the back half - you know, the spot he was selected in the All-Australian side in? And he proceeded to allow Liam Ryan (in his 2nd game) a 2 metre cushion in a marking contest...and Ryan did what anyone who has watched him in the last couple of years knew he would do - left up and took the mark (thankfully he missed the goal). For goodness sake, take a body, take his run and just compete...

Basketball. We are playing basketball. It is all about zoning off and ball movement and goodness knows what else.

Tackle someone. Make a physical impact. Play footy.


Do. Don't think, Mick, don’t hope. Do. At least you can come off and say, 'I did this, I shepherded, I played on. At least I did something for the sake of the side. Do. Act. Don’t think, act. Eye on the ball. The contest is still the same. You must win the ball to win the match. And more than that, when you win the ball you must cooperate with fellas coming past. And you must be desperate enough to stick with me and do it. The crowd might laugh. It might go wrong. I'm game enough to tell you to do it. Are you game enough to back me up? Are you game enough, Scotty, to back me up on that?


Someone had to say it...

[Topdog]

Even in basketball they would box out the player (take out his run)

[AndrewP6]

15 players had 2 or less tackles today...

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If you didn’t know any better you’d think we’ve phoned it in for the year both in terms of the selections at match committee and our players’ attitude/effort.

It’s hard to understand how both of these issues can be present in round two.

Something smells completely off at this club.

[SonofScray]

Yeah, pick a fight, try and disrupt things. If we can't get the game in our terms, due to poor skills, or being out performed, pick a fight. Light a fire. Our best, most respected sides live and breathe a football identity that is persistent and combative. Ocassionally they've been fast (Plough) dogged (Bevo) dirty (plough) class (Eade) but they've had a real Footscray foundation.

I'm not sure what the intention for this group is. But on weeks 1 and 2, it isn't any of the above. Nor is it Economic, Effective, Efficient, Skillful, Aerial, systematic etc etc.

Whatever Bevo is trying to do, he needs to attach it to a narrative that resonates with our best traits as a Club, because without that as a tangible component of our day at the footy, days like today leave us with nothing. That won't bode well for a number of people whose jobs were otherwise fairly secure.

[lemmon]

15 players had 2 or less tackles today...

Which is why I'm pretty ropeable Wallis has missed twice.

He won't help our skill level but we lost contested possessions by 26 and had 7 less tackles (despite getting thumped). He'll at least crack in and has a body that's mature enough to hit and hurt.

[Go_Dogs]

I couldn't bring myself to look at the stats after the game yesterday, but the tackle numbers are an indictment. As you said, the week after a poor performance, tackle numbers are something seemingly in our control and an indicator of intent that we could've made a real statement with.

The Liam Ryan thing became ridiculous towards the end of the game. Surely we'd recognised he'd camp off the contest, run and jump at the ball? Maybe we had but didn't care, as there were certainly enough players in the vicinity where we could've ensured he didn't get such a clear run and jump at it.

On a side note, he and Venebles looked good. Thankfully they didn't kick very straight...but boy, they know how to get the ball in the forward half and get themselves shots on goal.

[ratsmac]

Do. Don't think, Mick, don’t hope. Do. At least you can come off and say, 'I did this, I shepherded, I played on. At least I did something for the sake of the side. Do. Act. Don’t think, act. Eye on the ball. The contest is still the same. You must win the ball to win the match. And more than that, when you win the ball you must cooperate with fellas coming past. And you must be desperate enough to stick with me and do it. The crowd might laugh. It might go wrong. I'm game enough to tell you to do it. Are you game enough to back me up? Are you game enough, Scotty, to back me up on that?


Someone had to say it...

This should be playing in every players headphones before each game instead of whatever motivation their going with at the moment. Which is probably Taylor Swift haters are gonna hate!

[westdog54]

I couldn't bring myself to look at the stats after the game yesterday, but the tackle numbers are an indictment. As you said, the week after a poor performance, tackle numbers are something seemingly in our control and an indicator of intent that we could've made a real statement with.

The Liam Ryan thing became ridiculous towards the end of the game. Surely we'd recognised he'd camp off the contest, run and jump at the ball? Maybe we had but didn't care, as there were certainly enough players in the vicinity where we could've ensured he didn't get such a clear run and jump at it.

On a side note, he and Venebles looked good. Thankfully they didn't kick very straight...but boy, they know how to get the ball in the forward half and get themselves shots on goal.

Its amazing isn't it. You get a bloke sitting off the back of the back, who is clearly capable of taking a bit hanger. Surely you negate that by putting a little bit of body on him, rather than giving him a free run at the footy.

Surely at this level basics shouldn't have to be ironed in to the players by the coaching staff at the breaks?

[Twodogs]

Its amazing isn't it. You get a bloke sitting off the back of the back, who is clearly capable of taking a bit hanger. Surely you negate that by putting a little bit of body on him, rather than giving him a free run at the footy.

Surely at this level basics shouldn't have to be ironed in to the players by the coaching staff at the breaks?

Just get in front of him and fall over! It's pretty *!*!*!*!ing basic...


That's what i'd do anyway.

[Twodogs]

This should be playing in every players headphones before each game instead of whatever motivation their going with at the moment. Which is probably Taylor Swift haters are gonna hate!

Of course the great problem with that is the speech is taken from halftime at the 1975 grand final which Hawthorn were thrashed in.

But its a mighty speech. It makes the game seem pretty simple and gives hope to useless bastards like me who weren't very good but would do anything to win.

[westdog54]

Of course the great problem with that is the speech is taken from halftime at the 1975 grand final which Hawthorn were thrashed in.

But its a mighty speech. It makes the game seem pretty simple and gives hope to useless bastards like me who weren't very good but would do anything to win.

Rather curious oversight in the story, isn't it?

My personal favourite is Yabby Jeans' "You've got to pay the price" at HT in the 1989 GF.

I only wish Al Pacino's "Inches" speech from Any Given Sunday was a real coach's speech. Its one of my favourite cinema monologues of all time.

[mjp]

Inspiration from coaches only lasts 5 minutes. It has to come from within!

[Dry Rot]

Inspiration from coaches only lasts 5 minutes. It has to come from within!

You know a fair bit about this coaching caper. If you were Bevo, what would you be doing now? Go back to basics? Get clearances, tackling and defending right?

[Happy Days]

We aren't a basketball team because basketball teams routinely score over 100 points and are fun to watch.

[jeemak]

I commented in the game day thread, the lack of physicality at the centre bounces seemed to set the tone. We tended to let them out without any willingness to to slow or even startle them. We really needed to assert some physicality and force multiple stoppages, because WCE seemed to have the answers on the spread.

It was frustrating that our players, who seem to be getting dumber by the minute, couldn't register this as a basic that needed to be taken care of.

[Twodogs]

Rather curious oversight in the story, isn't it?

My personal favourite is Yabby Jeans' "You've got to pay the price" at HT in the 1989 GF.

I only wish Al Pacino's "Inches" speech from Any Given Sunday was a real coach's speech. Its one of my favourite cinema monologues of all time.

I saw a thing on YouTube that is like a compendium of famous Australian footy coaches half time address's but I don't think that "you've got to pay a price" was on it. Think they went with another Alan Jeans. He had a gift for communicating an idea and a question and a challenge and a dig at you with half a dozen words. One day I fluked a seat right behind John Kennedy and Dermott Brereton not long after Dermie had retired. Dermie leant over to Kennedy and said "I'm going into the media, teach me how to read what's happening on the field" I was captivated. I assume it was a bulldogs/Hawthorn game but I couldn't tell you for sure but I can tell you almost verbatin what Kennedy said about the game.

One thing in that Any Given Sunday speech, at one stage Al Pacino says "I want you to turn to the man next to you and look deep into his eyes" and of the two guys they film at that particular moment one of them is wearing sunglasses!


Inspiration from coaches only lasts 5 minutes. It has to come from within!

Yep. If you are relying on somebody else to provide you with the motivation or inspiration to give your best then you are in the wrong game.

[westdog54]

Yabbies other famous one was in (I think) 1983 when the players got in a circle and pledged "no matter what, we will do it today".

[Twodogs]

Yabbies other famous one was in (I think) 1983 when the players got in a circle and pledged "no matter what, we will do it today".

I don't think it's that either? It might have been the sausages analogy. "Footballers are like sausages. You can grill them, fry them or curry them but in the end they are still footballers"

[Remi Moses]

The guarding of space is seriously another thing that is infuriating.
40 odd tackles ! BTW basketball is more physical than what we dish up

[anfo27]

The guarding of space is seriously another thing that is infuriating.
40 odd tackles ! BTW basketball is more physical than what we dish up

Yep, guarding space doesn't work when the player with the ball is under no pressure.

[Sedat]

Contested ball and clearances aren't the be-all and end-all to success - Hawks 3-peated with a game plan that regularly lost both measurements. But defensive intensity to win the ball back from the opposition is a non-negotiable, and that has been completely missing from our last 2 weeks.

[Greystache]

Contested ball and clearances aren't the be-all and end-all to success - Hawks 3-peated with a game plan that regularly lost both measurements. But defensive intensity to win the ball back from the opposition is a non-negotiable, and that has been completely missing from our last 2 weeks.

It depends on your skill level.

If you're highly skilled you don't have to get your hands on the ball as much because you can burn teams with efficiency. Especially if you can intercept the ball in defense. That was the Hawthorn model.

If you're a low skill team you have to win volumes of footy and batter teams to death with repetition. That was our model.

Currently we're not trying to win volume but have the worst skills in the AFL. Hence we're dead last with a percentage of 47%

[Ozza]

Contested ball and clearances aren't the be-all and end-all to success - Hawks 3-peated with a game plan that regularly lost both measurements. But defensive intensity to win the ball back from the opposition is a non-negotiable, and that has been completely missing from our last 2 weeks.

They didn't lose the tackle count though. Although the Hawks didn't necessarily win contested ball of clearance counts - they were always right up there in the pressure indicators.

[Sedat]

It depends on your skill level.

If you're highly skilled you don't have to get your hands on the ball as much because you can burn teams with efficiency. Especially if you can intercept the ball in defense. That was the Hawthorn model.

If you're a low skill team you have to win volumes of footy and batter teams to death with repetition. That was our model.

Currently we're not trying to win volume but have the worst skills in the AFL. Hence we're dead last with a percentage of 47%
100% right with regard to skill level - the Hawks had this in spades. But they also harrassed and tackled incessantly when they didn't have the ball - many of their defensive intercepts were created further up the ground with their pressure on the opposition ball-carrier.

Our lamentable skills certainly aren't helping but the defensive pressure has dropped off astronomically compared to our high watermark of 2016 finals.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

100% right with regard to skill level - the Hawks had this in spades. But they also harrassed and tackled incessantly when they didn't have the ball - many of their defensive intercepts were created further up the ground with their pressure on the opposition ball-carrier.

Our lamentable skills certainly aren't helping but the defensive pressure has dropped off astronomically compared to our high watermark of 2016 finals.

What i don't understand is that all of the above, and everything on this forum and everything the media and armchair expert is saying, is pretty fundamental. Surely the club isn't so daft to be missing all these basic points. Is there something completely revolutionary that Bevo has implemented and the young list is completely incapable of following at the moment? I mean, i'm just at a loss for the inexcusable inability to perform the games fundamentals.

[bornadog]

What i don't understand is that all of the above, and everything on this forum and everything the media and armchair expert is saying, is pretty fundamental. Surely the club isn't so daft to be missing all these basic points. Is there something completely revolutionary that Bevo has implemented and the young list is completely incapable of following at the moment? I mean, i'm just at a loss for the inexcusable inability to perform the games fundamentals.

What do you expect with Richards, 1 game, Naughton 2, English 4, Gowers 2 and another 4 played with less than 30 games. Yes its the old young card, but it is fact. We haven't been this inexperienced since Rhode days.