Three things I have learned- Round 5, 2018 edition V Fremantle

[Twodogs]

Tell us three things that you didn't know before
As usual it's three things. Try not to make it four.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[AndrewP6]

1. It is going to be a very, very long year.
2. If a club offers something good for Dahlhaus, I'd listen.
3. I really like Captain Morgan Spiced Rum.

[Twodogs]

1. It is going to be a very, very long year.
2. If a club offers something good for Dahlhaus, I'd listen.
3. I really like Captain Morgan Spiced Rum.

At least you got a takeaway from the game. I'm still wondering how I can get that time back.

[westbulldog]

1. Webb is not AFL standard
2. Bontempelli is disinterested
3. The frequent flyer points should be donated to the RSL.

[bornadog]

1. I hate games in Perth

2. Lack of experienced players is killing us

3. Turnovers are still happening and costing us big time.

[angelopetraglia]

1. Webb is not AFL standard
2. Bontempelli is disinterested
3. The frequent flyer points should be donated to the RSL.

Harsh on the Bont.

[Eastdog]

1. Webb is not AFL standard
2. Bontempelli is disinterested
3. The frequent flyer points should be donated to the RSL.

Yeah I said he was alright in the 1st half but yeah overall this year certainly not been at his best. Macrae, McLean, Hunter so far I would think would be in it for the Sutton medal.

[Eastdog]

1. I hate games in Perth

2. Lack of experienced players is killing us

3. Turnovers are still happening and costing us big time.

That pretty much sums it up well BAD.

[westbulldog]

Harsh on the Bont.

A champion at his best but nowhere near it recently imo either in passion nor results, neither is Easton Wood.

[macca]

I am a bit concern that Bont is playing out of position to fill in the holes we have at CHF and FF. If we had greater depth in those position, he would be amassing massive numbers in the midfield.
Dont see carlton letting cripps play in those positions. Not sure long term wise it is a good thing for his body.

[Sedat]

I am a bit concern that Bont is playing out of position to fill in the holes we have at CHF and FF. If we had greater depth in those position, he would be amassing massive numbers in the midfield.
It's not a problem for Fyfe, Martin or Dangerfield. It shouldn't be a problem for Bont.

[Danny the snakeman]

Not so much learnt but more just had reinforced , how bad it is living in perth and waiting a year to see your team play and they dish that rubbish up.

[FrediKanoute]

1. When we don't pressure the opposition ball carriers we look second rate;
2. When we don't will ourselves to every contest (like |FYfe does) we are second rate;
3. Tom Boyd is a forward.....leave him there and he will kick bags

[Mantis]

1/ Hard to be competitive when about half of your team aren't solid AFL footballers.
2/ Our transition from offence to defence isn't anywhere near good enough.
3/ A footy must be a hard thing to kick.

[ratsmac]

I'm trying to be as positive as can be here.

1. Stats don't tell the full story. On the stat sheet it looks like it would've been a close game. There should be a stat for fumbling differential.
2. Our leaders need to learn how to lead, starting with Wood. Wood is under the pump with such an inexperienced group right now and he could do with a little help, but he needs to stand up and set an example. He was non existent last night.
3. Hunter must be more important to our structures than I thought.

[Bullies]

1. The Webb experiment is done. He is no good.
2. It would have been nice to have the skills of Long in the forward line and we knew he was a good one. Not sure why we did not draft him.
3. Gowers and Honeychurch try hard but don't have the skill to make it at AFL level. Dickson may have gone on one year too long.

[bornadog]

2. It would have been nice to have the skills of Long in the forward line and we knew he was a good one. Not sure why we did not draft him.

We didn't have the opportunity, ie the pick at the right time. We had pick 19 (English), and then 28. Long went at 25

[Flamethrower]

1. WA should be renamed East South Africa and the teams removed from the AFL

2. No matter how many times the Freo theme song is redone, it still sounds like a funeral march

3. Next week's game has gone from percentage booster to potential coach killer

[Bullies]

We didn't have the opportunity, ie the pick at the right time. We had pick 19 (English), and then 28. Long went at 25 thanks for clarifying as i thought Long went a bit further down the draft. Would prefer English so happy with our first pick. Lipinski with our next pick looks like a good small forward in the making.

[bornadog]

thanks for clarifying as i thought Long went a bit further down the draft. Would prefer English so happy with our first pick. Lipinski with our next pick looks like a good small forward in the making.

Also it is explained here how we could have had Long


We misread the draft order by a big way


The Dockers sent picks 35, 43 and 61 to us in exchange for Hamling, pick 40 and pick 63.
We then sent picks 35 and 43 to Gold Coast for picks 26 and 80. Pick 26 got moved to 28 and Ben Long went at pick 25.


Had we kept picks 35 and 43 then I think we would have ended up with Lipinski and Hannan
There was a fair bit of speculation that had we used pick 19 on Long we would still have landed English at pick 28.


I guess it's a case of should have and would have but I think we pissed away the Hamling currency

[comrade]

Long & Hannan would not be making one iota of difference to this team, so I don’t understand the hand wringing.

We got English. He’s probably going to end up as one of the best players in the draft, and easily the best big man. We got Lipinski, he’s no better or worse than Long & Hannan. What’s the problem?

[Twodogs]

Long & Hannan would not be making one iota of difference to this team, so I don’t understand the hand wringing.

We got English. He’s probably going to end up as one of the best players in the draft, and easily the best big man. We got Lipinski, he’s no better or worse than Long & Hannan. What’s the problem?


Hannan and Long can kick straight.

[bornadog]

Hannan and Long can kick straight.
Lipinski and English are pretty good kicks

[Bulldog Joe]

Hannan and Long can kick straight.

But would they kick straight if they were with us!

[craigsahibee]

1. Jamie MacLaren is a masterful signing by Neil Lennon
2. John McGinn is a midfield superstar (i knew this already)
3. Beating Celtic is one of life's great pleasures (knew this already too)

It's a good thing I had something else to watch on Saturday night. When Suckling turned the ball over via a sideways kick in the middle of the ground that went about 10 metres, that was enough for me. Surely that is one contract that will not be extended at the end of this year. Thanks for nothing.

[Greystache]

1. The standard of AFL football is currently the worst I've seen in my lifetime.

2. We're arguably the worst of a terrible lot

3. I've got better things to do with my time than to watch supposedly full time professional footballers who's skills are no better than local players. They can just run further.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

3. I've got better things to do with my time than to watch supposedly full time professional footballers who's skills are no better than local players. They can just run further.

There are plenty of local level footballers with superior skills to many AFL players. The talent pool has decreased significantly with GWS and Gold Coast entering the competition.

Just on the calls re: Ben Long, he's done nothing and couldn't be more unimpressive to date with the sole exception being the goal he kicked late v GWS.

[Eastdog]

There are plenty of local level footballers with superior skills to many AFL players. The talent pool has decreased significantly with GWS and Gold Coast entering the competition.

Just on the calls re: Ben Long, he's done nothing and couldn't be more unimpressive to date with the sole exception being the goal he kicked late v GWS.

You would think with players today and being a full time job that skill level and goalkicking would be better but not necessarily so. These 2 things need to take some priority at Whitten Oval training.

[Twodogs]

But would they kick straight if they were with us!

Touché!


1. The standard of AFL football is currently the worst I've seen in my lifetime.

2. We're arguably the worst of a terrible lot

3. I've got better things to do with my time than to watch supposedly full time professional footballers who's skills are no better than local players. They can just run further.

I can vaguely remember the late '60s and the skill level wasn't real flash but those blokes had jobs to go to and pretty full lives. They didn't have the luxury of hanging around the football club doing god knows what (they aren't improving their football that's for sure) all day.But I take your point most games are either end to end snore fears with no defensive pressure or contests or all in stumble and fumble feats this season.

[Ozza]

There are plenty of local level footballers with superior skills to many AFL players. The talent pool has decreased significantly with GWS and Gold Coast entering the competition.

Just on the calls re: Ben Long, he's done nothing and couldn't be more unimpressive to date with the sole exception being the goal he kicked late v GWS.

Easy to say that their skills are superior when they haven't had to use the skills at AFL level.

[bornadog]

Easy to say that there skills are superior when they haven't had to use the skills at AFL level.

Massive difference between local and AFL levels.

[Eastdog]

Massive difference between local and AFL levels.

VFL to AFL there is a significant difference as some players who are great at VFL just cant play at the higest levels in the AFL and local footy leagues to AFL kind of lights years apart but much more grassroots and I think they play more of the old school style of footy.

[MrMahatma]

1. We really have very limited depth.
2. J Mac may have jumped before being pushed. List has issues.
3. If we don't get a rails run with injury and suspension for the next 6 months we'll be gifting our new recruiting manager a No 1 pick.

[GVGjr]

Long & Hannan would not be making one iota of difference to this team, so I don’t understand the hand wringing.

We got English. He’s probably going to end up as one of the best players in the draft, and easily the best big man. We got Lipinski, he’s no better or worse than Long & Hannan. What’s the problem?

I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make? Long and Hannan were targets for us at the draft and we even moved up the order to specifically try and get Long. It doesn't really matter what impact they might have made.
The problem from my perspective is the currency we had with losing Hamling was lost.

[Sedat]

I'm not sure of the point you are trying to make? Long and Hannan were targets for us at the draft and we even moved up the order to specifically try and get Long. It doesn't really matter what impact they might have made.
The problem from my perspective is the currency we had with losing Hamling was lost.
Sometimes it doesn't work out on draft day. West Coke had a hatful of 2nd round picks last year and missed out on Tim Kelly because Geelong pulled the trigger early. We did likewise with Easton Wood and prevented the Pies from getting him. Ditto Tory Dickson who was ready to be signed, sealed and delivered to Essendon a couple of picks later.

[Twodogs]

Sometimes it doesn't work out on draft day. West Coke had a hatful of 2nd round pick last year and missed out on Tim Kelly because Geelong pulled the trigger early. We did likewise with Easton Wood and prevented the Pies from getting him. Ditto Tory Dickson who was ready to be signed, sealed and delivered to Essendon q couple of picks later.

I think GVR's more annoyed that we pissed the picks we got for Hamling away for magic beans. It's not so much what happened on draft day but the fact that we were a bit all over the place before draft day swapping picks and then swapping those picks for other picks.

I personally think (and I'm going to take the opportunity to thump my tub again and say it again) that we rolled over on the Hamling deal far too easily and accepted crap compensation for Hamling. We got our tummies tickled on that deal. Hamling had just held down a key defensive post in a premiership team. We should have said "first rounder or don't bother" to Freo and settled on a second round pick, instead we pulled our own pants down.

[GVGjr]

Sometimes it doesn't work out on draft day. West Coke had a hatful of 2nd round pick last year and missed out on Tim Kelly because Geelong pulled the trigger early. We did likewise with Easton Wood and prevented the Pies from getting him. Ditto Tory Dickson who was ready to be signed, sealed and delivered to Essendon q couple of picks later.

I get that but we had a poor draft. We positioned ourselves for a player and missed by 3 selections. Yes it happens but at the end of the day we lost Hamling and really got nothing for it.

Was Kelly picked early? It was well known before the draft that Geelong was interested in him. Based on form so far, he was probably taken late. West Coast had two selections before Kelly was taken by Geelong with their 2nd pick. West Coast can't complain that Geelong nabbed him and they got a good pick in Liam Ryan with their 3rd pick.

[MrMahatma]

We effectively got Lipinski for Hamling. Good deal? Not at all.

The problem was in the Hamling deal more so than the drafting though. Too early to call on Lipinski and drafting always comes with its risks. Premiership key defenders come with fewer risks.

[Twodogs]

We effectively got Lipinski for Hamling. Good deal? Not at all.

The problem was in the Hamling deal more so than the drafting though. Too early to call on Lipinski and drafting always comes with its risks. Premiership key defenders come with fewer risks.

GVRjr will confirm that I have said from the start that we got bent over on the Hamling deal, he copped hundreds of texts complaining about it from me. I had to check when April the first started to fall in the middle of trade week when I heard what we were accepting for him. Another problem was the indecent haste we showed in getting the dead done. It was done in the first few days of trade period. We knew exactly what was going to happen iver he rest of trade week did we? We should have put the Hamling trade to one side until we knew where the rest if the cards fell. THEN we should have dealt with Joel's clearence. I understand that his dad was sick but we could have found a way around that.


Would we get a premiership defender for magic beans? No but we happily piss premiership defenders against the wall when we have them. I still can't (and I am still very angry with the club) believe we just gave Hamling away. Hamling was the difference last year against Freo. If he had been playing for us we would have won. If we'd won we may have made the finals. If we'd made the finals we may hve won another flag. We were stupid not to try and hold Hamling (he was one of the most improved players in our list) but even stupider to accept what we took for him.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Easy to say that their skills are superior when they haven't had to use the skills at AFL level.

So because Player A is drafted to the AFL they automatically have better skills than Player B who plays local level?

No chance.

Not saying Player A isn't better in other areas, but in terms of skill there are PLENTY of better users running around at local level.

Dunkley, Gowers, Jong and co. could play local level and they'd still butcher the hell out of the ball.

[Sedat]

I get that but we had a poor draft. We positioned ourselves for a player and missed by 3 selections. Yes it happens but at the end of the day we lost Hamling and really got nothing for it.

Was Kelly picked early? It was well known before the draft that Geelong was interested in him. Based on form so far, he was probably taken late. West Coast had two selections before Kelly was taken by Geelong with their 2nd pick. West Coast can't complain that Geelong nabbed him and they got a good pick in Liam Ryan with their 3rd pick.
I agree that we didn't have a good trade period and draft in 2016. The Tim Kelly comparison and other examples were highlighted because of the similarity with what we did on the Hamling compo/draft pick swaps - WC traded into the 2nd round with other deals in order to have enough picks to get both Kelly and Ryan and missed out on Kelly because the Cats nabbed him first.

Our daft haul of English, Lipinski, Young and Greene in 2016 has question marks but also successes. I highly doubt English would have lasted to pick 28 when Freo were very close to pulling the trigger with their first pick (7 from memory). English is a Brodie Grundy-esque big win, Lipinski is a question mark, Young looks a sound pick and Greene is speculative.

Ben Long and Mitch Hannan would be nice additions (especially with the Footscray synergy) but I'm not 100% sold that they would address current our key weaknesses. First and foremost we have grave issues with midfield depth - thank Christ we delisted and re-rookied Roarke Smith and nabbed Callum Porter with our extra pick last year.

Hamling was a delist candidate 10 weeks before becoming an integral premiership player (and was a DFA for us before that), so I think it's revisionist history to suggest that a mid 30's pick was poor compensation for him. What we did with that compensation, however, can be dissected and criticised. Would have obviously rather kept him if at all humanly possible.

[Ozza]

So because Player A is drafted to the AFL they automatically have better skills than Player B who plays local level?

No chance.

Not saying Player A isn't better in other areas, but in terms of skill there are PLENTY of better users running around at local level.

Dunkley, Gowers, Jong and co. could play local level and they'd still butcher the hell out of the ball.

No, not what I'm saying at all.
What I'm saying is, the players at local level don't have their skills tested by the level of pressure and fatigue that AFL players do. As well as dealing with the tactical layers occurring in the game.

Sure, there will be players at local level who could hit a target more times than some AFL players. But do all of the other things required at AFL level, and still go and find the footy and then see if those skills hold up as well.

[Twodogs]

So because Player A is drafted to the AFL they automatically have better skills than Player B who plays local level?

No chance.

Not saying Player A isn't better in other areas, but in terms of skill there are PLENTY of better users running around at local level.

Dunkley, Gowers, Jong and co. could play local level and they'd still butcher the hell out of the ball.

Agree. We wouldn't have players being drafted in their mid 20s otherwise. They tried all the the late '90s to sell us the twaddle that unless you came through the elite talent pathway then you weren't capable of playing AFL. Even players from the VFL, SANFL and the WAFL were being tarred with a "will never be able to play AFL (we aren't going to give him a chance to prove it though!)'' brush until West Coast drafted tgat 27 yo full forward and then Hawthorn took Sam Mitchell from Box Hill that the myth was shattered.

[GVGjr]

I agree that we didn't have a good trade period and draft in 2016. The Tim Kelly comparison and other examples were highlighted because of the similarity with what we did on the Hamling compo/draft pick swaps - WC traded into the 2nd round with other deals in order to have enough picks to get both Kelly and Ryan and missed out on Kelly because the Cats nabbed him first.


I'm not sure it's a great comparison but I get what you mean. If you trade up with target in mind and another clubs rates him higher then so be it. If you acquire a number of picks around the mark and miss a player because you prefer others then that falls on the club. West Coast were never going to get both Kelly and Ryan unless Kelly was their 2nd pick and they went in another direction with Oscar Allen. They can't really bitch that Kelly was gone before their 3rd pick because they knew the Cats were keen




Our daft haul of English, Lipinski, Young and Greene in 2016 has question marks but also successes. I highly doubt English would have lasted to pick 28 when Freo were very close to pulling the trigger with their first pick (7 from memory). English is a Brodie Grundy-esque big win, Lipinski is a question mark, Young looks a sound pick and Greene is speculative.

Ben Long and Mitch Hannan would be nice additions (especially with the Footscray synergy) but I'm not 100% sold that they would address current our key weaknesses. First and foremost we have grave issues with midfield depth - thank Christ we delisted and re-rookied Roarke Smith and nabbed Callum Porter with our extra pick last year.



Regarding English, Fremantles next pick was at pick 38. They weren't in the mix and clearly had Sean Darcy on their radar for that pick. The Saints at pick 25 were loaded with ruckman and weren't after another, Geelong at 26 have a plethora of ruckman and at pick 27 Carlton went after a midfielder in Zac Fisher. While I have no problems with us taking English at pick 19 I disagree that it was highly doubtful he would certainly be gone before pick 28.

The players the clubs selected in between our selections were about in line with predictions and club needs.

It doesn't matter to me if we believe Long and Hannan would have been the right picks for us but they were clearly on our radar.
The fact that we didn't land either of them is an error by our list management during the trade and draft periods.

Young and Greene were taken earlier than originally planned. I've been more than happy with both.


Hamling was a delist candidate 10 weeks before becoming an integral premiership player (and was a DFA for us before that), so I think it's revisionist history to suggest that a mid 30's pick was poor compensation for him. What we did with that compensation, however, can be dissected and criticised. Would have obviously rather kept him if at all humanly possible.

Yep, he turned around his season and was invaluable towards the end of the year.

[GVGjr]

GVRjr will confirm that I have said from the start that we got bent over on the Hamling deal, he copped hundreds of texts complaining about it from me.

That is complete and utter BS, it's more like thousands :)

[jeemak]

Agree. We wouldn't have players being drafted in their mid 20s otherwise. They tried all the the late '90s to sell us the twaddle that unless you came through the elite talent pathway then you weren't capable of playing AFL. Even players from the VFL, SANFL and the WAFL were being tarred with a "will never be able to play AFL (we aren't going to give him a chance to prove it though!)'' brush until West Coast drafted tgat 27 yo full forward and then Hawthorn took Sam Mitchell from Box Hill that the myth was shattered.

Troy Wilson was the WCE lad. Kicked 83 goals from 37 games in a few seasons.

[Twodogs]

Young and Greene were taken earlier than originally planned. I've been more than happy with both.

Do you mean you're happy with Young and Greene and would have been happy if we'd taken Long and Hannan instead? I think because we had seen lots of Hannan and a fair bit of Long both play and they both played big parts in winning finals for us at Footscray and were in the team that won the 2016 VFL flag that it was natural for us to want them on the AFL list. But we've got a good one with Lewy Young. Haven't seen enough of Greene yet,


That is complete and utter BS, it's more like thousands :)

I literally still have steam coming out of my ears. Well I don't really have steam coming out of my ears obviously but I'm still annoyed enough to need a lie down and a bex.

[bornadog]

I literally still have steam coming out of my ears. Well I don't really have steam coming out of my ears obviously but I'm still annoyed enough to need a lie down and a bex.

How do you think Hawthorn feel about losing Buddy, or Adelaide losing Danger - we just have to get over it. Now take that bex and have a lie down. :D:D



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF6ffbz70SY&list=RDBF6ffbz70SY

[GVGjr]

Do you mean you're happy with Young and Greene and would have been happy if we'd taken Long and Hannan instead? I think because we had seen lots of Hannan and a fair bit of Long both play and they both played big parts in winning finals for us at Footscray and were in the team that won the 2016 VFL flag that it was natural for us to want them on the AFL list. But we've got a good one with Lewy Young. Haven't seen enough of Greene yet,



I literally still have steam coming out of my ears. Well I don't really have steam coming out of my ears obviously but I'm still annoyed enough to need a lie down and a bex.

I think they show a lot of talent. Our plan was to take Young later in the draft but once some other players were gone both he and Greene, who I think we originally planned as a rookie, moved up the order.

When I talked to Greene at the Legends and Young Guns night he thought he was more of a rookie consideration before we selected him but clubs do keep their cards close.

[Happy Days]

Hannan has played 1 game this year and is already 24 - not really shattered we missed him.

[Twodogs]

I think they show a lot of talent. Our plan was to take Young later in the draft but once some other players were gone both he and Greene, who I think we originally planned as a rookie, moved up the order.

When I talked to Greene at the Legends and Young Guns night he thought he was more of a rookie consideration before we selected him but clubs do keep their cards close.


Hannan has played 1 game this year and is already 24 - not really shattered we missed him.

I'm pretty happy we got Lewis Young. I think he will be the best player of the four, but I'd like to see a bit more of Ben Long before I make that call though. Ben just has something, he always seems to stay on his feet in a contest and he is never more than an arms length away from the ball and when he reaches out for it for it, it rolls up his arm. He can play pretty well at VFL level.


As you said before G. "Woulda, coulda, shoulda." And as my dear old granddad told me when I was just a little kid "remember this son, 'if my horse hadn't stopped for a shit then it would have won the race' and that's all the advice I will ever give you about the neddies" he was holding a form guide at the time.

[Ozza]

I don't really see any reason to lose sleep over Hannan, Long or Hamling really.

Hamling wanted to go home for genuine family reasons. He did some outstanding things for us for a month that helped us win the flag, all the best to him.

[Sedat]

Regarding English, Fremantles next pick was at pick 38. They weren't in the mix and clearly had Sean Darcy on their radar for that pick. The Saints at pick 25 were loaded with ruckman and weren't after another, Geelong at 26 have a plethora of ruckman and at pick 27 Carlton went after a midfielder in Zac Fisher. While I have no problems with us taking English at pick 19 I disagree that it was highly doubtful he would certainly be gone before pick 28.
English at pick 28, if that was even a remote possibility, shows to me that list managers and recruiters are too smart by half. I feel like English is a complete steal at pick 19 - I think Ozza pointed out his numbers and ability to find the footy for such a big man are off the charts. A 206cm ruckman with natural footy smarts and great skills - he could be anything.


It doesn't matter to me if we believe Long and Hannan would have been the right picks for us but they were clearly on our radar. The fact that we didn't land either of them is an error by our list management during the trade and draft periods.

If they were our targets, we clearly made errors about their worth and didn't trade up the draft enough to nab them. But from my personal perspective, I don't see either of these two making a difference to our current situation. Holding onto players far too long has been our issue for many years - it peaked with Mulligan getting 5 years on the list, but there are 6-8 players on the list currently who are extremely fortunate to still be there.

[Twodogs]

I don't really see any reason to lose sleep over Hannan, Long or Hamling really.

Hamling wanted to go home for genuine family reasons. He did some outstanding things for us for a month that helped us win the flag, all the best to him.


That's true. He was outstanding in those three weeks and I doubt we could have done it without him.

English at pick 28, if that was even a remote possibility, shows to me that list managers and recruiters are too smart by half. I feel like English is a complete steal at pick 19 - I think Ozza pointed out his numbers and ability to find the footy for such a big man are off the charts. A 206cm ruckman with natural footy smarts and great skills - he could be anything.



If they were our targets, we clearly made errors about their worth and didn't trade up the draft enough to nab them. But from my personal perspective, I don't see either of these two making a difference to our current situation. Holding onto players far too long has been our issue for many years - it peaked with Mulligan getting 5 years on the list, but there are 6-8 players on the list currently who are extremely fortunate to still be there.

Oh god, I'd forgotten about him. Didn't he spend two years on Hawthorn's list after we ditched him?

We should put his name in the swear filter.

[Sedat]

Oh god, I'd forgotten about him. Didn't he spend two years on Hawthorn's list after we ditched him?

We should put his name in the swear filter.
Thst was Boumann, who was to Comrade what Cheesy Barlow was to me

[azabob]

Being out of contract Freo and Hamling also held all the cards.

[westdog54]

Agree. We wouldn't have players being drafted in their mid 20s otherwise. They tried all the the late '90s to sell us the twaddle that unless you came through the elite talent pathway then you weren't capable of playing AFL. Even players from the VFL, SANFL and the WAFL were being tarred with a "will never be able to play AFL (we aren't going to give him a chance to prove it though!)'' brush until West Coast drafted tgat 27 yo full forward and then Hawthorn took Sam Mitchell from Box Hill that the myth was shattered.


Troy Wilson was the WCE lad. Kicked 83 goals from 37 games in a few seasons.

Yes he was. I remember Garry Lyon getting on his high horse on the radio before one of his early matches about what a horrendous idea it was to draft him.

He kicked 7 that day.

[1eyedog]

1. Mini rebuild, ok cool but need to cut deep this year.
2. I am down to one last gig for Webb he has shown nothing at AFL level.
3. When fit we must fast-track Schache as much as we are fast-tracking Naughton and Richards.

[Twodogs]

1. Mini rebuild, ok cool but need to cut deep this year.
2. I am down to one last gig for Webb he has shown nothing at AFL level.
3. When fit we must fast-track Schache as much as we are fast-tracking Naughton and Richards.

Schache played something like 25 senior AFL games at Brisbane. He's got a few games in his legs.

[1eyedog]

Schache played something like 25 senior AFL games at Brisbane. He's got a few games in his legs.

Needs a lot more ASAP.

[Twodogs]

Needs a lot more ASAP.

He does.

Actually what he really needs is a good scrubbing with some detoll and a wire brush. Get him out of his own head.

[Eastdog]

He does.

Actually what he really needs is a good scrubbing with some detoll and a wire brush. Get him out of his own head.

Needs confidence and hopefully no more injury setbacks.

[bornadog]

Schache played something like 25 senior AFL games at Brisbane. He's got a few games in his legs.

I want to see him in the forward pocket along side Tom.

[Greystache]

Needs a lot more ASAP.

He does, but if the past 2 decades have proven anything, then we won't be giving him games in the seniors to develop as a key forward. If he's not kicking goals every week he'll be dropped, then we'll start playing him as a ruck, then trying him in defence, then we'll throw him a game here or there in the seniors playing 4 different roles, then he'll be gone for good and we'll lament that we can't unearth any key forwards. Then we'll draft/trade for a couple more and do the same thing.

There's a reason we haven't developed a decent key forward since Chris Grant nearly 30 years ago and it isn't because the players we've selected couldn't make it.

[Twodogs]

He does, but if the past 2 decades have proven anything, then we won't be giving him games in the seniors to develop as a key forward. If he's not kicking goals every week he'll be dropped, then we'll start playing him as a ruck, then trying him in defence, then we'll throw him a game here or there in the seniors playing 4 different roles, then he'll be gone for good and we'll lament that we can't unearth any key forwards. Then we'll draft/trade for a couple more and do the same thing.

There's a reason we haven't developed a decent key forward since Chris Grant nearly 30 years ago and it isn't because the players we've selected couldn't make it.

Even then Chris Grant pretty much won two Brownlows playing at CHB. He was so talented and so determined that even we couldn't break him!

[jeemak]

Even then Chris Grant pretty much won two Brownlows playing at CHB. He was so talented and so determined that even we couldn't break him!

Pretty sure Chris played most of his footy at CHF in 1997, didn't he?

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He does, but if the past 2 decades have proven anything, then we won't be giving him games in the seniors to develop as a key forward. If he's not kicking goals every week he'll be dropped, then we'll start playing him as a ruck, then trying him in defence, then we'll throw him a game here or there in the seniors playing 4 different roles, then he'll be gone for good and we'll lament that we can't unearth any key forwards. Then we'll draft/trade for a couple more and do the same thing.

There's a reason we haven't developed a decent key forward since Chris Grant nearly 30 years ago and it isn't because the players we've selected couldn't make it.

Our year is basically shot, so if there's anything I want to see, it's for us to finally develop Boyd and Schache as key forwards regardless of their ups and downs.

I know Schache has been injured but we really need to get him in the side and inject games into him.

[Remi Moses]

Couldn’t agree more . We need games into schache, Webb , and Boyd .

[LostDoggy]

Two of our first year players have played every game this year and we are consistently the most inexperienced team of the 18 fielded each week. I don't think we can accuse the MC of ignoring the kids. If you're not getting a game at present you're either not fit enough or have plenty to work on at VFL level.

[hujsh]

There are a few who've been around for a while now that we need to really figure out if they have a future with us as AFL players. Webb is top of that list. One of those players that gets plenty of it at VFL level but when he gets to AFL you wonder how exactly he gets the ball since.

Speaking of can someone tell me how Webb goes about getting 30 disposals for Footscray? Big tank? Winning his own ball? I'd be interested to hear where people feel it falls apart at AFL level.

[Twodogs]

Pretty sure Chris played most of his footy at CHF in 1997, didn't he?


Yeah your'e right. Partially. Craig Ellis took over his role at CHB that year but was it from round 1 or did Ellis gradually replace him after a few rounds, I can't remember.

[Remi Moses]

Ellis played from the get go at CHB and was nearly picked for Victoria
Granty was CHB in 96

[westdog54]

He does, but if the past 2 decades have proven anything, then we won't be giving him games in the seniors to develop as a key forward. If he's not kicking goals every week he'll be dropped, then we'll start playing him as a ruck, then trying him in defence, then we'll throw him a game here or there in the seniors playing 4 different roles, then he'll be gone for good and we'll lament that we can't unearth any key forwards. Then we'll draft/trade for a couple more and do the same thing.

There's a reason we haven't developed a decent key forward since Chris Grant nearly 30 years ago and it isn't because the players we've selected couldn't make it.

You've well and truly established your thoughts about players being played out of position and I respect that, but quite frankly these rants are becoming tiresome.

[bornadog]

You've well and truly established your thoughts about players being played out of position and I respect that, but quite frankly these rants are becoming tiresome.

Here here.

[Greystache]

You've well and truly established your thoughts about players being played out of position and I respect that, but quite frankly these rants are becoming tiresome.

Perhaps you could provide us all a list of subjects you approve and the parameters of which we can discuss those subjects? Just to make sure we don't offend your sensitivities.


Here here.

Yes let's just make every thread about bashing Webb and Jong. That wouldn't be repetitive at all!

[bornadog]

Perhaps you could provide us all a list of subjects you approve and the parameters of which we can discuss those subjects? Just to make sure we don't offend your sensitivities.



Yes let's just make every thread about bashing Webb and Jong. That wouldn't be repetitive at all!

Yeah, I constantly bash Webb and Jong all the time.

[Mofra]

Yes let's just make every thread about bashing Webb and Jong.
Leaving any gripes aside, Webb and Jong are about as opposite players as English and Daniel.

Webb was a well known junior talent who is a brilliant kick but not overly explosive athlete.
Jong is a ridiculous athlete who was barely known as a junior but kicking is certainly not a weapon of his.

It's telling about modern football that Jong is in the side while Webb is fringe who barely performs when given AFL opportunity.

[bornadog]

Leaving any gripes aside, Webb and Jong are about as opposite players as English and Daniel.

Webb was a well known junior talent who is a brilliant kick but not overly explosive athlete.
Jong is a ridiculous athlete who was barely known as a junior but kicking is certainly not a weapon of his.

It's telling about modern football that Jong is in the side while Webb is fringe who barely performs when given AFL opportunity.

Like all players in the RWB, I want them to succeed. As you say Webb just hasn't performed when given an opportunity at AFL level. Perhaps he is in the wrong role and will not make it as a midfielder and there maybe a different role he can go to.

As for Jong, over the past few weeks he has started to improve and picked up 22 disposals last week (not that that is an indication on it's own). If he can keep improving he may become a genuine best 22, but time will tell.

[hujsh]

Perhaps you could provide us all a list of subjects you approve and the parameters of which we can discuss those subjects? Just to make sure we don't offend your sensitivities.


Perhaps the issue is not that the subject being brought up is offensive to Westdog's sensibilities but that the same point has bene repeated ad-nauseam? I don't recall anyone complaining the first 10 times you expressed these thoughts.

[Twodogs]

I still hope Webb gets a few weeks in a row to adjust to the pace of afl football and see if he can find a place or a role in the team. We aren't going to find out one way or the other if we keep dropping him after one game

[Mofra]

I still hope Webb gets a few weeks in a row to adjust to the pace of afl football and see if he can find a place or a role in the team. We aren't going to find out one way or the other if we keep dropping him after one game
Yep I was surprised he was dropped this week but even when not really performing we have competition for spots.

Perhaps the issue runs the opposite way - he gets an extended run at VFL level in the role he'll play at AFL level to work on his game. Happy to stand corrected but he plays 90% midfield at VFL level but is thrown around a bit more in the seniors?

[Mofra]

As for Jong, over the past few weeks he has started to improve and picked up 22 disposals last week (not that that is an indication on it's own). If he can keep improving he may become a genuine best 22, but time will tell.
We all know Jong has faults but his attributes mean he can still be useful in the seniors.
We simply don't have that breakaway capacity in the midfield with Jong as the sole exception. Perhaps his presence there means opposition teams still have to set up 'normally' and not overtly offensively knowing without Jong there, there is no threat of the Bulldogs midfield sprinting away with the ball in space?