Luke Beveridge and club direction

[ledge]

My questions

1 Do you make a game plan to suit your list or do you make a list to suit your game plan ?
At the moment it seems we are playing a plan our list can't do.
Do we have confidence in Luke and what he is doing or most importantly do the players buy into it ?
Our first qtrs look so good lately but we just go into a shell after that. Are we too young to continue it and if so should Luke be using a plan to suit the fitness and age of the list and stop the hidings before they totally destroy the confidence of the team?
To be honest our team selections are very puzzling and even the positions some are playing.
Does anyone have doubts on what's happening and where we are heading?
It's hard being outside " the four walls" but it's something I am questioning , is anyone inside the club able to put light to some of the things going on and why ?

[anfo27]

It seems ridiculous its even being raised but it just looks from the outside that the players are not buying in. Unless you're inside you wouldn't really know but thats what it looks like to me.

[bulldogtragic]

It seems ridiculous its even being raised but it just looks from the outside that the players are not buying in. Unless you're inside you wouldn't really know but thats what it looks like to me.

I missed the game, but held my thoughts last week. A genuine question for me right now is if there is something going on at the club of a significant nature in the player ranks. I'm sure the media will ask this question to top club officials this week.

[Flamethrower]

From my POV, the most significant thing happening at the club is that the team that is representing the jumper ATM is a shell of a competent AFL team due to the number of players currently not available or totally out of form.

A coach is only as good as the cattle available.

[azabob]

I missed the game, but held my thoughts last week. A genuine question for me right now is if there is something going on at the club of a significant nature in the player ranks. I'm sure the media will ask this question to top club officials this week.

Barrett ran with the narrative of players not talking to each other a few weeks back.

[ledge]

My post was meant more as the Bevo game plan and is it working.
I don't think it's a player issue, we have the talent but you have to find the right plan that works for the group.
I'm not sure the coaching group has it right, we have had the same issue of delivery and forward line function since before the GF . We have gone out and got big forwards and it's still not coming together.
Lets face it we know we go in to our forward 50 a lot but we can't even get a 50/50 win.

[chef]

Is it a wonder we are in free fall when apparently the game plan we worked on in the preseason was ditched a couple of rounds in.

[Eastdog]

Bevo in his presser he said 'the flag hasn't done anyone a favour'.

I certainly would have thought winning the 2016 flag would have motivated us even more into 2017 but clearly something didn't go right since then and we need to find out what it is to address the rut we are in.

[GVGjr]

Bevo in his presser he said 'the flag hasn't done anyone a favour'.

I certainly would have thought winning the 2016 flag would have motivated us even more into 2017 but clearly something didn't go right since then and we need to find out what it is to address the rut we are in.

It's an interesting point he has raised, is he conceding we have had some challenges with motivation or something else?

[MrMahatma]

It's an interesting point he has raised, is he conceding we have had some challenges with motivation or something else?

He meant that now, every team think or are expected to think, that they can win the flag every year. The slow progression from young team to contender isn't as accepted now. That's across the comp. Not just for us.

[GVGjr]

He meant that now, every team think or are expected to think, that they can win the flag every year. The slow progression from young team to contender isn't as accepted now. That's across the comp. Not just for us.

The way I interpreted his comments were around if our players have handled the success of 2016 and if we need to change the list.
I'm over hearing about the impacts of the flag, it comes down to player management.
Yes we have given other clubs something to aspire to but lets get our own house in order and get on with things.

When he arrived at the club Bevo promised to improve our skill level and that hasn't happened he also hasn't addressed our goal kicking from set shots. Fix those things and I think we are well back on track and would have us as a relevant club.

[Hotdog60]

It's not like we don't get it in our forward 50 often enough. It's what we do when it gets there is the problem.
Fumbles, dropped marks that should be taken by a league player and missing set shots that school kids would get 98% of the time.
Delivery from up the field is the first thing I would look at. we need mids that can find a target or put it to their advantage.
We still do a lot of bombing it in and make it someone else's problem.

[GVGjr]

It's not like we don't get it in our forward 50 often enough. It's what we do when it gets there is the problem.
Fumbles, dropped marks that should be taken by a league player and missing set shots that school kids would get 98% of the time.
Delivery from up the field is the first thing I would look at. we need mids that can find a target or put it to their advantage.
We still do a lot of bombing it in and make it someone else's problem.

Long Bombs to Tom (now there's a username) if you have a couple of good crumbers could work otherwise fix the skill level and we become a far better side.

[Twodogs]

Long Bombs to Tom (now there's a username) if you have a couple of good crumbers could work otherwise fix the skill level and we become a far better side.

Or just get somebody who can kick straight.

I do like Long Bombs to Tom. :D

[ledge]

It's definitely a break down between mids and forwards.
Maybe the mids coach should be the forwards coach as well so they connect properly.
I do question our team selections at times and the big one is Wallis , he is the one who gives his all for the club and always will , he is a good shot at goal and his passing into the the forward line is better than anyone else we have.
Campbell another.
I just don't get it as much as we diagnose every week it comes back to strange team selection quite a few times now.
But in saying all this if our forward line and mids suddenly connect I think we would be extremely hard to beat.

[stefoid]

For me the game in a nutshell was Melbourne 20 marks inside 50, us 8.

We are pretty awful at kicking to our teammates advantage. Both across the ground which gave Melbourne an edge in contested ball numbers despite us absolutely killing them at stoppages, and particularly inside 50 which is where we have been losing games turning hard work into morale sapping easy opposition rebounds.

There were quite a number of occasions where we had players who had made space ahead of the ball where a flat direct kick to their favoured side would have been perfect and instead we did some loopy/floaty kick that allowed melbourne to close the space and spoil.

In the second half we were stagnant ahead of the ball, giving the ball carrier nothing much to kick to. Whether that is chicken and egg I dont know (i.e. nobody bothers to run because they dont expect to be rewarded for it?)

So did we sacrifice spread to keep numbers around the ball to ensure we won the stoppages? Or do we just lose focus and morale and just stop running? Maybe a bit of both.

Once we were certain to loose I tried my best to stop ball watching and started watching players ahead of the ball when we had possession.

We seemed to concede the corridor to Melbourne as the game went on. The number of times Melbourne was able to control the corridor by having just two players commanding the entire area while we fiddled around on a flank.... and then of course any turnover on a flank was particularly dangerous, giving allowing melbourne to rebound through the most dangerous part if the ground.

Personally I can handle losing because of mistakes and fatigue that come with fielding an inexperienced team. But I dont want to see us losing because we are structurally terrible

[whythelongface]

It's not like we don't get it in our forward 50 often enough. It's what we do when it gets there is the problem.
Fumbles, dropped marks that should be taken by a league player and missing set shots that school kids would get 98% of the time.
Delivery from up the field is the first thing I would look at. we need mids that can find a target or put it to their advantage.
We still do a lot of bombing it in and make it someone else's problem.

It really boils down to delivery into the fwd 50 quickly and efficiently. Melbourne played a wonderful counter attacking game last night waiting for the turnover in our back half and using speed and skill to deliver the ball into their fwd 50. This meant that the fwd 50 was not crowded and was isolated to one on one contests. To do this effectively you need the cattle. Something we lack at present.

[SlimPickens]

Just on our forward enteries, watch how Lever did his knee yesterday. It’s not only our blokes who cop it, poor kid is done for the year due to our terrible kicks into the 50

[Twodogs]

Just on our forward enteries, watch how Lever did his knee yesterday. It’s not only our blokes who cop it, poor kid is done for the year due to our terrible kicks into the 50

So what's happening to them? Are they twisting to readjust their position and their stops are getting caught in the ground and holding the knee still while the rest of the leg moves?

Players just seem to pull up like they have pinged a hammy but it's a big knee instead. Libba did the same, just braced to jump and bang, no contact or anything.

[bulldogtragic]

A genuinely honest question, what is our game plan as designed by the coaches in the last month? I can't work one out.

[Happy Days]

Another genuinely honest question - at what point does the immaturity and turnover of the list stop being a consideration, and the coaching group start taking heat for leading a proven premiership quality team all the way to the bottom 4 (or close enough to it)?

Not saying we're there yet, but this drop off is astounding and it's plainly obvious that the players aren't getting the most of out the abilities.

[ratsmac]

It really boils down to delivery into the fwd 50 quickly and efficiently. Melbourne played a wonderful counter attacking game last night waiting for the turnover in our back half and using speed and skill to deliver the ball into their fwd 50. This meant that the fwd 50 was not crowded and was isolated to one on one contests. To do this effectively you need the cattle. Something we lack at present.this has been evident all season. We are either too slow or indirect moving the ball forward allowing the opposition to pack our forward fifty or we simply turn it over with a shitty skill errors in dangerous (corridor) parts of the ground. We take risks that are way too risky because there is no defending a turn over. Stupid football.


A genuinely honest question, what is our game plan as designed by the coaches in the last month? I can't work one out.

Chirp chirp... Chirp chirp. (That's my terrible attempt of crickets)

[G-Mo77]

Another genuinely honest question - at what point does the immaturity and turnover of the list stop being a consideration, and the coaching group start taking heat for leading a proven premiership quality team all the way to the bottom 4 (or close enough to it)?

Not saying we're there yet, but this drop off is astounding and it's plainly obvious that the players aren't getting the most of out the abilities.

We are there now HD, even Gold Coast would knock us over pretty comfortably right now. They're all pushing the youth narrative at anyone who will listen and it's their excuse for this plummet into insignificance. To be fair it is a decent bail out but when the team is running around like a chook without a head who takes the blame for it? No one is putting their hand up.

[merantau]

In trying to get a handle on what's happened to us since 2016 I'm going to put our flag 22 under the microscope. As a baseline each flag winner will be given 2 scores out of 10. The first represents their value to the team in 2016, the second represents what they have contributed, or been able to contribute, to our team development since then.

Shane Biggs - playing in the VFL. Has gone backwards. 7.5 - 4
The Bont - Rule change and more attention from opposition has blunted his impact on games 10 - 7.5
Matty Boyd - lost his position in the team before retiring. 8 - zero
Tom Boyd - missed a lot of footy through no fault of his own. 8 -4
Zaine Cordy - has been pretty consistent. 6 - 7

Luke Dahlhaus - skills have not improved. Doesn't kick goals Gone backwards. 7 - 5
Caleb Daniel. Playing more in the defensive half these days it seems. Still gets his share of the ball but ... 7 - 5
Tory Dickson - crippled by injury 8 - 4
Josh Dunkley - playing VFL . 7 - 4

Joel Hamling - gone. 8 - Zero
Lachie Hunter 8 - 7

JJ - major disappointment Lost form, confidence. 8 - 4

Tom Liberatore - underwhelming 2017. Tragic injury after getting into shape 8 - 2.5

Jack Macrae - elite player. Has been stellar. 8 - 10
Toby McLean - definitely a plus for us 6.5 - 7.5
Dale Morris - injuries 7 - 6

Liam Picken - the player we have missed the most. 10 -5

Fletcher Roberts - VFL 5 - 2
Roughie - injuries, loss of form 6.5 - 3

Clay Smith - injuries, loss of form 7 -2
Stringer - 6.5 - zero
Easton Wood - lost form. 8-6

Our problems are multi - faceted but I think the general gist of what I've outlined above goes some way to explaining our predicament.

[bornadog]

Just on our forward enteries, watch how Lever did his knee yesterday. It’s not only our blokes who cop it, poor kid is done for the year due to our terrible kicks into the 50

So his knee was our fault :confused:

[SlimPickens]

So his knee was our fault :confused:

Yep pretty much. Big factor in ACL injuries is a sudden unexpected change of direction. Also known as a bulldog forward entry. ;)

[SlimPickens]

So what's happening to them? Are they twisting to readjust their position and their stops are getting caught in the ground and holding the knee still while the rest of the leg moves?

Players just seem to pull up like they have pinged a hammy but it's a big knee instead. Libba did the same, just braced to jump and bang, no contact or anything.

Footy boots never get brought up in the research although I feel like it’s a huge factor. Our knee is the meat in the foot/ankle and hip sandwich. A footy boot restricts the players ablilty to adapt their movement to deal with the stresses put through the knee, funnily enough so does the “protective” ankle tape and hence when the force is too great something gives way.

[Twodogs]

I'd never considered the ankle tape. It still makes my eye water when I read Jack Dyer's solution to his cartilage problems was to tape a penny between the bones of his knee to replace it for the match.

[bornadog]

Yep pretty much. Big factor in ACL injuries is a sudden unexpected change of direction. Also known as a bulldog forward entry. ;)

Sorry you have lost me.

If the solution to not getting an ACL was found, you would be a millionaire.

[SlimPickens]

Sorry you have lost me.

If the solution to not getting an ACL was found, you would be a millionaire.

It’s a joke with some science thrown in for good measure.

[bornadog]

It’s a joke with some science thrown in for good measure.

cheers, sorry for lacking a sense of humour with all the negative posts happening.

[SlimPickens]

Sorry you have lost me.

If the solution to not getting an ACL was found, you would be a millionaire.

Have you seen the incident I’m referencing?

[bornadog]

Have you seen the incident I’m referencing?

Only saw it briefly

[SlimPickens]

Only saw it briefly

I think my post will make sense if you do rewatch it. Bont is leading Lever to where he wants the ball kicked, the kick goes to Levers advantage and causes both players to suddenly change direction. Levers knee gives way

[bornadog]

I think my post will make sense if you do rewatch it. Bont is leading Lever to where he wants the ball kicked, the kick goes to Levers advantage and causes both players to suddenly change direction. Levers knee gives way

That is the trouble with ACLs, you never know when it is going to happen. That action by Lever is probably done a 100 times in a match.

[bornadog]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DesHQDiV4AMNKbV.jpg:large

[Eastdog]

It's definitely a break down between mids and forwards.
Maybe the mids coach should be the forwards coach as well so they connect properly.
I do question our team selections at times and the big one is Wallis , he is the one who gives his all for the club and always will , he is a good shot at goal and his passing into the the forward line is better than anyone else we have.
Campbell another.
I just don't get it as much as we diagnose every week it comes back to strange team selection quite a few times now.
But in saying all this if our forward line and mids suddenly connect I think we would be extremely hard to beat.

The midfield-forward interaction is really letting us down. As you say ledge if this is addressed then we would all of sudden be much more competitive and win more games than we lose but at the moment it does not look like it will change.

I was speaking to my mate today and he hints at that the coaching personnel around Bevo needs a bit of a shake up as a few woofers have suggested. I think we must give Bevo a chance to reinvigorate this list to become a force again.

[Twodogs]

Sorry you have lost me.

If the solution to not getting an ACL was found, you would be a millionaire.

It's pretty obvious to me.

[bornadog]

Beveridge’s reasons stack up: Healy (https://sportsdayradio.com.au/2018/06/05/beveridges-reasons-stack-up-healy/)


Brownlow Medallist Gerard Healy has defended Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge saying injuries to key players and the departure of some of their experienced heads has led to their downfall.

The Bulldogs slipped to their third straight defeat when they were beaten by 49 points by Melbourne on Saturday, putting their finals chances at risk

It’s been a dramatic fall from grace following the Dogs’ drought breaking premiership in 2016, but Healy believes Beveridge has been hindered by issues that are out of his control.

“They’ve got a number of good players off their list, they’ve got a lot of injuries to key personnel and they’ve got a lot of form issues,” he told Sportsday.

“They went in and won it with a side that wasn’t one of the all-time great sides.

“It was a side that was brilliant for a month.”

Following the loss to the Demons, Beveridge said the club’s expectations have risen to an unrealistic level following their unexpected flag two years ago.

“‘I think what we did in ’16 hasn’t done anyone a favour,” he said.

“It probably hasn’t done us a favour because everyone just thinks they can win it every year. Richmond were extraordinarily good last year and people just expect the Bulldogs can win it this year. Whether we can or we can’t, that remains to be seen.

‘‘That’s where other clubs are now under pressure when they shouldn’t be. The expectation around some of the clubs that have been down and how quickly they should climb is maybe because of what we did in ’16.

“Maybe that’s not possible or even practical.’’

[Grantysghost]

Beveridge’s reasons stack up: Healy (https://sportsdayradio.com.au/2018/06/05/beveridges-reasons-stack-up-healy/)


Brownlow Medallist Gerard Healy has defended Western Bulldogs coach Luke Beveridge saying injuries to key players and the departure of some of their experienced heads has led to their downfall.

The Bulldogs slipped to their third straight defeat when they were beaten by 49 points by Melbourne on Saturday, putting their finals chances at risk

It’s been a dramatic fall from grace following the Dogs’ drought breaking premiership in 2016, but Healy believes Beveridge has been hindered by issues that are out of his control.

“They’ve got a number of good players off their list, they’ve got a lot of injuries to key personnel and they’ve got a lot of form issues,” he told Sportsday.

“They went in and won it with a side that wasn’t one of the all-time great sides.

“It was a side that was brilliant for a month.”

Following the loss to the Demons, Beveridge said the club’s expectations have risen to an unrealistic level following their unexpected flag two years ago.

“‘I think what we did in ’16 hasn’t done anyone a favour,” he said.

“It probably hasn’t done us a favour because everyone just thinks they can win it every year. Richmond were extraordinarily good last year and people just expect the Bulldogs can win it this year. Whether we can or we can’t, that remains to be seen.

‘‘That’s where other clubs are now under pressure when they shouldn’t be. The expectation around some of the clubs that have been down and how quickly they should climb is maybe because of what we did in ’16.

“Maybe that’s not possible or even practical.’’

Sack Bevo ��

[Ghost Dog]

Bevo clearly disappointed in the presser but gave an honest assessment.
Win or Lose Luke gives a good account of himself in conferences. The journalists must like working with him. Some here mentioned he used a silence to cut it short, but I disagree. I felt he gave a lot of good insights and the injury question usually comes last, which it did, so presser was same as usual in structure, just speeded up a bit.

I would forgive him if I saw him smash a phone, rocket style or something. Throw a few clip boards around. Guys, chances are going begging!

Bevo commented we are not getting enough out of the midfield group. But overall in 2019....
Turnovers is an area that's hurting us. Goal kicking is an area hurting us.
Maybe North was and is the better team after all. We might have some talented players, but its how you work together that counts.

For a bit of class and poise, a season otherwise full of good moments being dragged down. Only takes a few clanger kicks in the backline at the wrong time and missed shots each week to bring a heap of pressure on us.

I hope Gia can be in the coaching group next year if he is successful in 2019 at the VFL. He's got a lot of experience, was a good kick and great midfielder. Had the class we need as a player, hope he can teach it.

[Mofra]

Bevo commented we are not getting enough out of the midfield group. But overall in 2019....
Turnovers is an area that's hurting us. Goal kicking is an area hurting us.
North's midfield beat us, but I'm not willing to say the midfield overall this year has been poor even though I have question marks over the defensive side of the game at times.

We've lost games this year with the midfield breaking even or winning despite getting smashed int he ruck. We've lost while winning the inside 50 count.
We lack forwards. Not "guys who bust a gut and kind of breakeven", but genuine spent their whole career there forwards.

Lloyd stands out like dogs balls because he is a natural forward. He's slow and not great overhead but has genuine forward craft so looks fantastic. If we had guys who are actual forwards rather than a ragtag bunch of defenders and mids thrown forward in hope, we would be a far better side. Sadly I think that means we have to sacrifice a defender and a mid - Wood must be on thin ice, and Wally is best 22 on desperation and ability but we're are getting to the stage where structure is more important than talent.

Richards cameos forward but is forte is running and carrying the ball then delivering on the run, something he simply cannot do if playing forward of the ball.

I'm bracing for one of our mid-season picks being a defender with 'some' forwardline scope. Gardner or Riccardi will help our list profile as talls, but I really wish our next selection would be a small or mid sized forward who will pick up our system quickly and get a chance in the second half of the year.

[lemmon]

Completely agree, Mofra.

One guy that I think we've really missed this year has been Fergus Greene. He's a natural forward who hits the scoreboard, kicks straight and actually presents up to the footy. No surprise for mine that his inclusion last year also coincided with an improvement in form.

The sooner guys like Greene, Cavarra and hopefully Dickson start to filter into the best 22, the better our forward line will function. We're really lacking in forward craft and pressure.

[Mantis]

Completely agree, Mofra.

One guy that I think we've really missed this year has been Fergus Greene. He's a natural forward who hits the scoreboard, kicks straight and actually presents up to the footy. No surprise for mine that his inclusion last year also coincided with an improvement in form.

The sooner guys like Greene, Cavarra and hopefully Dickson start to filter into the best 22, the better our forward line will function. We're really lacking in forward craft and pressure.

Dickson is 31 and playing like he's 41... unfortunately, he's not the answer.

[Eastdog]

Dickson is 31 and playing like he's 41... unfortunately, he's not the answer.

Dickson 2016 finals was amazing but right now certainly I feel past his peak. Was a great shot at goal. I’m hoping Josh Schache fills this role. Good mark and kick. Needs to get his confidence up Josh.

[Eastdog]

I feel if we don’t make the finals again in 2019 which is very likely now you would think Bevo would start coming under scrutiny if he is not already. Was speaking to a mate yesterday and he is very pessimistic saying that he wouldn’t give Bevo a new contract right now based on current form. He also reckons that some players are still to content with 2016 flag although a lot of them have moved on so really can’t use that as an excuse anymore. The assistants around him haven’t changed in a while. Need to get some new ones in there if we keep Bevo on.

[Twodogs]

Bevo clearly disappointed in the presser but gave an honest assessment.
Win or Lose Luke gives a good account of himself in conferences. The journalists must like working with him. Some here mentioned he used a silence to cut it short, but I disagree. I felt he gave a lot of good insights and the injury question usually comes last, which it did, so presser was same as usual in structure, just speeded up a bit.



I can think of one that has some issues...

[Ghost Dog]

I can think of one that has some issues...

That's not a journalist. That's the son of Dicky Knee!

[Twodogs]

That's not a journalist. That's the son of Dicky Knee!

Heheheh!