Bankers And Anchors - Round 18, 2018 vs West Coast

[Eastdog]

This is the round 18, 2018 edition of the Weekly Bankers and Anchors Thread. Once the game against West Coast is concluded post your nominations for:

The Bankers = 3 guys/aspects of the game that we banked on to do the right thing during the game
The Anchors = 3 guys/aspects of the game that weighed us down by their errors or poor play

Please limit it to no more than three of each player or aspect of the game, but feel free to make honourable/dishonourable mentions. As usual try to make it constructive criticism.

Try and restrict it to individual players rather than aspects of the overall match - I will allow more freedom now as the thread seems to be going down more of the aspects of the game path so you can have 3 for each made up of aspects of the game and individual players.

The thread is named in honour of a popular WOOF Contributor, The Banker, who passed away on 22/04/2012 after a six month battle with cancer.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[The Doctor]

Anchors

1. Dalrymple for crap recruiting for too long. How many midgets and how many blokes who can't kick. Jeebus

2. MaCartney for crap list management

3. Gordon for not managing premiership success and taking advantage of it

Bankers

2/3 gone ain't bad

[bulldogtragic]

B

This disasterous season is one game closer to finishing.
Trying to go up the order from pick 5, maybe into pick 2.
Confirming to the list manager that many need to go, hopefully Power was watching.


A

Lack of effort for 4 quarters. Any time a team 100% scores more than us, that's shithouse.
Lack of skills across the board, including goal kicking, still. But I'm sure it will fix itself soon enough. Just need some more patience.
From premiership to this in 39 games. Pretty shameful that we've won 16 games since our flag, and Richmond have won 13 games since theirs a year later. If this isn't pushing into crisis territory, then I don't know what will constitute one.

[westbulldog]

B
Mitch Wallis both for his game and for being the one to stand up and step into Hurn after the Honeychurch incident.
JJ
Crozier

A
The injury to Honeychurch, I am sure we all wish him well.
Long season and a learning curve for the kids.
Injuries +++

[bornadog]

Bankers

1. Schache getting better every week - great pickup

2. Dunkley in the midfield is starting to pay off

3. JJ's goal is what we need more of from the smalls.

Anchors

1. HC being ko'd - that was extremely dangerous and hope he is ok - Hurn should get weeks for that. Instead of trying to tackle he comes in and turns his shoulder towards HC.

2. More injuries - Dahl's ankle, hopefully it is not too bad.

3. More entry into forward 50 - skills shocking.

[soupman]

.

Anchors

1. HC being ko'd - that was extremely dangerous and hope he is ok - Hurn should get weeks for that. Instead of trying to tackle he comes in and turns his shoulder towards HC.


What was he supposed to do? Honeychurch moved into him, Hurn was practically stationary, merely protected himself and didn't even follow through. It was unfortunate, not malicious.

[jeemak]

Hurn moved his body away from the ball’s direction to ensure contact with HC was made. I agree it didn’t seem malicious but that’s what he did.

[Ozza]

I've been overseas for the past 3 weeks - so am not fully across everything that is/has been happening...

But I note that we had 11 of our best 22 unavailable on the weekend, and had a further injury to Dahlhaus, who'd been one of our best to that point in the game. Its hard yakka with so many out, and I wouldn't be reading to much into the result. We've certainly done worse with better teams on paper, in Perth before!

However, I can't see how anyone can look at Honeychurch and Roarke Smith and tell me these blokes are equipped to play AFL footy.

It was my first time seeing Brad Lynch play at the level. He must have been far better the previous 3 weeks to be playing.

[Mofra]

Bankers:

Crozier was an astute pick up.

I questioned us panic-trading Schache in at the last minute of trade week. I'm an idiot, he's been our most promising forward since Gowers moved up the field.

Wallis certainly isn't playing like a guy with a foot out the door.

Anchors:

We're carrying a fair bit of dead wood due to injury.

Team balance is off - we've sacrificed runners for talls (mostly due injury) then get smashed in the air.

Ruck division. Boyd & Roughy had a mare. We are statistically the worst ruck division in the competition, even worse than Geelong. We better hope English has a solid pre-season as for the first time in decades our 'great white hope' is a ruckman, not a developing KPF.

[Hot_Doggies]

Bankers:

Crozier was an astute pick up.

I questioned us panic-trading Schache in at the last minute of trade week. I'm an idiot, he's been our most promising forward since Gowers moved up the field.

Wallis certainly isn't playing like a guy with a foot out the door.

Anchors:

We're carrying a fair bit of dead wood due to injury.

Team balance is off - we've sacrificed runners for talls (mostly due injury) then get smashed in the air.

Ruck division. Boyd & Roughy had a mare. We are statistically the worst ruck division in the competition, even worse than Geelong. We better hope English has a solid pre-season as for the first time in decades our 'great white hope' is a ruckman, not a developing KPF.

Begs the question, if English can have a full pre-season and Schache continues to improve, is there a spot for Boyd?

I dont think so.

[bornadog]

What was he supposed to do? Honeychurch moved into him, Hurn was practically stationary, merely protected himself and didn't even follow through. It was unfortunate, not malicious.

Hurn was not going for the ball - did you see him with eyes on the ball? no, he was just worried about HC.

What he should have been doing is have eyes on the ball and arms out to tackle HC, not go in with turning his body and having the intent on bumping. Yes he stopped his action but he should not have been in that situation where he was going to hit HC, he has a duty of care.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiwL4n1VsAAxjra.jpg

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Begs the question, if English can have a full pre-season and Schache continues to improve, is there a spot for Boyd?

I dont think so.

Yes. At FF. He then rotates with English in the ruck.

[bornadog]

It was my first time seeing Brad Lynch play at the level. He must have been far better the previous 3 weeks to be playing.

It was his 3rd game and yes he was better the previous TWO games. He has pace and is a beautiful kick of the ball.

[Hot_Doggies]

Yes. At FF. He then rotates with English in the ruck.

Not sure if a lumbering 200cm player who cant mark and often gets out marked is the answer.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

It was his 3rd game and yes he was better the previous TWO games. He has pace and is a beautiful kick of the ball.

Yes. He's got the attributes we are after. He just needs to know when and when not to take the tacklers on. He is getting caught HTB far too often but it's his 3rd game and that is something that's not overly concerning when you have a player with pace and a good kick. His awareness will improve with each game

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Not sure if a lumbering 200cm player who cant mark and often gets out marked is the answer.

The guy is spending 90% of the time on the ground in the ruck. Schache has spent all his time as a CHF. Give Boyd the same liberty and he will come on. If we have no plans to play him as a forward (which Bevo keeps telling us is not the case) then absolutely his days should be numbered. I was surprised yesterday when Rough played more time as a forward than Boyd.

[bulldogtragic]

Not sure if a lumbering 200cm player who cant mark and often gets out marked is the answer.

I think the delivery to him for much of his career impacts your observation. His forward draft has stagnated, his leading is ok but is often overlooked and/or poor movement and horrid entries are holding him back. He actually needs to be developed as a KPF with specialist training and mentoring, but he’s not getting that. If he and Schache was work out a partnership where they don’t run to the exact same spot and create packs they’ll both be better. Plus if we could just kicking up and under bombs into the forward line all our forwards would benefit.

[bornadog]

I think the delivery to him for much of his career impacts your observation. His forward draft has stagnated, his leading is ok but is often overlooked and/or poor movement and horrid entries are holding him back. He actually needs to be developed as a KPF with specialist training and mentoring, but he’s not getting that. If he and Schache was work out a partnership where they don’t run to the exact same spot and create packs they’ll both be better. Plus if we could just kicking up and under bombs into the forward line all our forwards would benefit.

Bevo has already said he will be a KPF, but for now with our ruck issues, he will play some time in the ruck to plug holes.

I can see English next year playing the majority of time in the ruck, and Boyd just giving a chop out to give Tim a rest.

Despite what Mofra said, I thought we broke pretty much even in the ruck on the weekend.

[soupman]

Hurn was not going for the ball - did you see him with eyes on the ball? no, he was just worried about HC.


He was going for the ball, or failing that to tackle Honeychurch. He came in in a good position to not let the bobbling ball go past him, positioning himself in line with its trajectory. Honeychurch was almost definitely going to get there first so you can see him concede that prepare for the tackle. If he really wanted to go for the ball he would've accelerated into Honeychurch going in low and hard side on.

He concded Honeychurch was getting it first so was prepared to tackle, except Honeychurch fumbled the ball meaning he couldn't.




What he should have been doing is have eyes on the ball and arms out to tackle HC, not go in with turning his body and having the intent on bumping.

He literally has his arms by his sides ready to try to catch Honeychurch as he takes possession the entire way. He did not go in turning his body and clearly never had the intent to bump as if he did he would've started turning much earlier.



Yes he stopped his action but he should not have been in that situation where he was going to hit HC, he has a duty of care.


Not in the situation? What do you mean he shouldn't have been in the situation where they were going to make contact????

He is exactly where the ball is going, and only doesn't get it because a)Honeychurch gets there first and b) Honeychurch fumbles it past him. If there is no Honeychurch Hurn gets that ball. Where the hell should he be if not in that exact situation????

From Hurns point of view he does the following:
-He is positioned initially to intercept a more direct disposal.
-Seeing the ball come inside to Honeychurch he positons himself to be in line with the ball and the oncoming attacker (Honeychurch) so he can either intercept the footy or tackle Honeychurch.
-He does this at as slow a pace as possible so that Honeychurch will have greater difficulty evading him and also to try and get more of his body behind the ball.
-He comes in with arms by his sides ready to reach out and keep the ball infront of him or tackle the player.
-When Honeychurch gets there first and fumbles Hurn continues to not commit to a bump.
-Finally Honeychurch stumbles as he bends down and unable to take possesion falls forward head first towards Hurn.
-Hurn unable to get out of the way instinctiviely turns his body and pulls his elbow in in the softest bump we have seen this season. He doesn't follow through with his momentum, in fact he stops dead as if he is trying to absorb contact, he doesn't follow through with his elbow or arm and is not rough about any other aspect of the bump, instantly pulling out afterwards.

Considering Honeychurch stumbled into him and only at the last moment I believe Hurn had four options:
-Dive heroically out of the way at the last moment. Almost definitely would have still made contact and would have been the most idiotic move ever. So not a realistic option.
-Stand there facing Honeychurch and try to catch his body, with Honeychuchs head probably hitting either Hurn stomach or groin. Neither is optimal and could have caused just as much damage.
-Turn his body last second when he knew they were going to contact and try to absorb the contact without following through, this is what he did.
-Turn his body and follow through with the bump, causing more damage. This he did not do.

So really imo he did the optimal thing for both himself and the player, and the injury is just an unfortunate accident from two players going for the same ball. If he does get fined or suspended it just adds to the many bullshit cases in the AFL where a the intention of the action is deemed of no importance compared to the consequences.

[bornadog]

So really imo he did the optimal thing for both himself and the player, and the injury is just an unfortunate accident from two players going for the same ball. If he does get fined or suspended it just adds to the many bullshit cases in the AFL where a the intention of the action is deemed of no importance compared to the consequences.

Good post, but I don't agree as I watch the vision over and over. Hurn started to tackle but changed his mind and turned to bump.

Take another look, frame by frame. Hurn is not looking at the ball, but rather straight at HC


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXw0ZwGXqCY&feature=youtu.be

[soupman]

Good post, but I don't agree as I watch the vision over and over. Hurn started to tackle but changed his mind and turned to bump.

Take another look, frame by frame. Hurn is not looking at the ball, but rather straight at HC


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXw0ZwGXqCY&feature=youtu.be

I agree he changed his mind so he could bump, but that was more due to circumstances than it was anything else.

I think he is looking at both until the collision is inevitable and the ball goes past him, in which case he watches Honeychurch as they collide. I think the slow motion makes his intentions look worse, as realistically he is a good chance of either getting the ball or laying the tackle until the last half second if that.

[Doc26]

I agree he changed his mind so he could bump, but that was more due to circumstances than it was anything else.

I think he is looking at both until the collision is inevitable and the ball goes past him, in which case he watches Honeychurch as they collide. I think the slow motion makes his intentions look worse, as realistically he is a good chance of either getting the ball or laying the tackle until the last half second if that.

The outcome was very unfortunate but I didn't seen any malice or even danger in Hurn's action. Aside from turning side on to Mitch to brace for impact I think he held back considerably. Mitch seemed to be stumbling forward and low which was as much a part of the outcome.

I would hate to see a fair player like Hurn rubbed out for that, just as I would hate to see one of our own miss weeks for that.

[Ozza]

The outcome was very unfortunate but I didn't seen any malice or even danger in Hurn's action. Aside from turning side on to Mitch to brace for impact I think he held back considerably. Mitch seemed to be stumbling forward and low which was as much a part of the outcome.

I would hate to see a fair player like Hurn rubbed out for that, just as I would hate to see one of our own miss weeks for that.

Agree with all of that Doc. He is entitled to turn his body to protect himself and there is absolutely no malice in it.
I don't like how incidents get slowed down to frame by frame - as they always make the 'perpetrator' look like they more time and intent in their actions than real time shows.

[Mofra]

Begs the question, if English can have a full pre-season and Schache continues to improve, is there a spot for Boyd?

I dont think so.
I think there is - but no other talls going forward (e.g. Cordy, Adams).
Boyd would be about 70/30 forward/ruck in that case and we'd need mid sizers to fill the breech with a small and resting mids.

If Dale is fit and firing our forwardline looks much better, unfortunately he was terrible then injured this year.

[Mofra]

Despite what Mofra said, I thought we broke pretty much even in the ruck on the weekend.
Statistically we're the worst ruck division in the comp this year, we lost both the hit outs and clearances yesterday and between Lycett & Vardy they took 9 marks to Boyd & Roughy's 3.

Roughy battled hard to make 7 tackles but they beat us in possessions and tackles too - and this was their option B.

[bornadog]

The outcome was very unfortunate but I didn't seen any malice or even danger in Hurn's action. Aside from turning side on to Mitch to brace for impact I think he held back considerably. Mitch seemed to be stumbling forward and low which was as much a part of the outcome.

I would hate to see a fair player like Hurn rubbed out for that, just as I would hate to see one of our own miss weeks for that.


Agree with all of that Doc. He is entitled to turn his body to protect himself and there is absolutely no malice in it.
I don't like how incidents get slowed down to frame by frame - as they always make the 'perpetrator' look like they more time and intent in their actions than real time shows.


Look where the ball is and where Hurn is:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DiwL4n1VsAAxjra.jpg

Hurn came charging in and only had eyes for HC. I agree last minute he tried to stop, but his action in not going for the ball and concussing a player is very careless.

[Bulldog4life]

Statistically we're the worst ruck division in the comp this year, we lost both the hit outs and clearances yesterday and between Lycett & Vardy they took 9 marks to Boyd & Roughy's 3.

Roughy battled hard to make 7 tackles but they beat us in possessions and tackles too - and this was their option B.

And they were all Roughys too. Boyd never looked like taking one.

[Sedat]

I think you're all missing the issue with Hurn - you are now allowed to bump (Burton) but you're not allowed to tackle (NicNat).

More quality work from Steve Hocking - and this dickhead expects us to trust him paving the way for the future of the game :rolleyes:

[bornadog]

I think you're all missing the issue with Hurn - you are now allowed to bump (Burton) but you're not allowed to tackle (NicNat).

More quality work from Steve Hocking - and this dickhead expects us to trust him paving the way for the future of the game :rolleyes:

Nothing to see here

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DixR25EUwAE6de8.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DixR25KVQAAs-GM.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DixR25NUwAAy89q.jpg

[dukedog]

I'm looking at the vision. Even though the intent wasn't malicios...hit. Knew that HC couldn't have taken possession of the ball. If you look at the ball it wasn't a fumble he never gained possession of it. He opted to bump. It caught him High....2 weeks.

[Bullies]

The guy is spending 90% of the time on the ground in the ruck. Schache has spent all his time as a CHF. Give Boyd the same liberty and he will come on. If we have no plans to play him as a forward (which Bevo keeps telling us is not the case) then absolutely his days should be numbered. I was surprised yesterday when Rough played more time as a forward than Boyd. Boyd is only 21. Look where Gawn and Grundy were at the same time of their careers. He is well ahead of them at the same time. If we keep rucking him then we need to have this conversation in 2 years and assess where he is at then. I'm sure it will click. You will find he and English will be our ruck combination going forward.

[Bullies]

The outcome was very unfortunate but I didn't seen any malice or even danger in Hurn's action. Aside from turning side on to Mitch to brace for impact I think he held back considerably. Mitch seemed to be stumbling forward and low which was as much a part of the outcome.

I would hate to see a fair player like Hurn rubbed out for that, just as I would hate to see one of our own miss weeks for that. Very well put. Would hate to see a player suspended for an action like that. Just unfortunate and no malice or intent in it at all.

[AndrewP6]

Boyd is only 21. Look where Gawn and Grundy were at the same time of their careers. He is well ahead of them at the same time. If we keep rucking him then we need to have this conversation in 2 years and assess where he is at then. I'm sure it will click. You will find he and English will be our ruck combination going forward.

i agree with your points 100%, except that Boyd is 23 next month.

[bornadog]

Very well put. Would hate to see a player suspended for an action like that. Just unfortunate and no malice or intent in it at all.

Yeah Hurn is a good bloke