List Management 2018

[The Doctor]

I've posted this at the beginning of the season the past couple of years but have had it sitting on my desktop completely overlooked since the pre season this year.


Listed here is our team in positional order and their respective ages for the majority of the 2018 season. The positions are just a guide as some players could easily cross from one group to another.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Key Forwards

Redpath 27, Boyd 22, Josh Schache 20, Mullenger McHugh 21*


Medium/Small Forwards

Picken 31, Dickson 30, C.Smith 25, Honeychurch 23, Gowers 22*, Dale 21, Greene 20, Lipinski 19,


Ruckmen

Roughead 27, Campbell 26, English 20


Tall Midfielders

Jong 25, Macrae 23, Bontempelli 22, Dunkley 21,


Small Midfielders

Liberatore 26, Wallis 25, Dahlhaus 25, Hunter 23, McLean 22, Daniel 21, Porter 19


Key Defenders

Morris 35, Trengove 27, Roberts 25, Adams, 25, Z.Cordy 21, Collins 20, Young 19, Naughton 18


Medium/Small Defenders

Suckling 29, Wood 28, Biggs 26, Johannisen 25, Crozier 24, Webb 22, Williams 20, R.Smith 21*, Lynch 20* Richards 18

----------------------------------------------------------------------

2017 List Changes

Off - Murphy, Boyd, Stringer, Hamilton, Cloke, Crameri Prudden*, Tweedie* (Cat B)

On - Trengove, Crozier, Schache, Naughton, Richards, Porter, Gowers*


Leadership Group

Easton Wood (C), Marcus Bontempelli (VC)
Jason Johannisen, Jordan Roughead, Lachie Hunter, Jack Redpath


Honours/Achievements

* 20 AFL premiership players are on the list
* 12 VFL premiership players are on the list
* 3 All Australians (Morris, Wood, Bont)
* 1 Norm Smith Medallist
* 3 Sutton Medallists


Age Groups

* 3 veterans 30+
* 16 players in 24-29 age group
* 25 players 23 and under


Games

* 200+ games = 1. Morris

* 100 - 200 games = 8. Dalhaus, Liberatore, Picken (198), Roughead, Suckling, Trengove, Wallis, Wood

* 50-99 games = 10. Bontempelli, Dickson, Hunter, Johannisen, Macrae (99), C. Smith, Biggs, Daniel, Jong, Crozier

* under 50 = 17. Adams, T.Boyd (49), Campbell, Collins, Cordy, Dale, Dunkley, English, Honeychurch, Lipinkski, Mclean, Redpath, Roberts, Scahche, R.Smith, Webb, Williams, Young

* yet to debut = 7. Lynch, Greene, Mullenger McHugh, Naughton, Richards, Porter, Gowers


Notes

* A better balanced list in terms of positional depth
* Tremendous flexibility with many players capable of easily fitting into a secondary classification (ie Z.Cordy Key forward or key defender)
* Almost 60 % of the list is 23 or under
* Almost 60% of the list have played less than 50 games incl 8 premiership players
* All tall bigger bodies midfielders on the list are 25 or younger
* Many premiership players still yet to reach their peak in terms of age and games played
* High level experience and/or leadership in all positional classifications
* Focus during the off season on bolstering key position depth in defence


Free Agents

Unrestricted - Dale Morris, Tom Liberatore, Luke Dalhaus

Restricted - Jordan Roughead, Mitch Wallis


Current 2018 Draft Picks

1st Round pick (5)
3rd Round pick (41)
4th Round picks (59) (62)

() indicative of ladder position as at 19th June

[kruder]

Its gonna be all about points for West and Khamis. Lets say West is bid on at pick 13 which is worth ~1200 points after you get a 20% discount we need to come up with picks at the value of 960 points. Just to put it in perspective picks 41 59 and 62 are worth ~700 points. If we want kharmis also he is probably a mid second rounder which is ~560 points after discount and also its worth keeping in mind we can use a 2019 selection. It just goes to show you that we are going to be an active player in the trade period there is no doubt some loved ones will leave at the end of the year.

[The Doctor]

Updated after trade period 2018


Key Forwards

Schache 20,


Medium/Small Forwards

Picken 31, Dickson 30, Lloyd 28, Hayes 23, Gowers 22, Cavarra 22, Dale 21, Greene 20, Lipinski 19,


Ruckmen

Boyd 22, English 20, Sweet 20


Tall Midfielders

Jong 25, Macrae 23, Bontempelli 22, Dunkley 21, Smith 17


Small Midfielders

Liberatore 26, Wallis 25, Hunter 23, McLean 22, Daniel 21, Porter 19, West 18


Key Defenders

Morris 35, Trengove 27, Roberts 25, Z.Cordy 21, Young 19, Naughton 18


Medium/Small Defenders

Suckling 29, Wood 28, Duryea 27, Johannisen 25, Crozier 24, Webb 22, Williams 20, R.Smith 21*, Lynch 20, Vandermeer 19, Young 19, Richards 18, Khamis 18


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Delisted 9 from main list, 1 from rookie list

J.Roughead, J.Redpath 27, S.Biggs 26, T.Campbell 26, C. Smith 25, M.Adams 25, L.Dahlhaus 25, M.Honeychurch, N. Mullenger-McHugh 21*, K.Collins 20,


----------------------------------------------
Trade Ins 2

Lloyd (Rich), Duryea (Haw)


Draft Picks

7 - Bailey Smith
26 - Rhylee West
37 - Laitham Vandermeer
45 - Ben Cavarra
78 - Will Hayes

Rookies

Buku Khamis
Lachlan Young
Jordan Sweet

[The Doctor]

We're in for a busy off season!

A lot of the speculation about who stays and goes is centering around our middle aged players. These are; Redpath, Honeychurch, Roughead, Campbell, Libba, Wallis, Dalhaus, Roberts, Adams. All will be in their prime years of 24-28 next season. We have already lost Smith and Biggs. Ideally this should be the group to be leading us forward and if we cut a large chunk of this group could leave a significant void in my view.

[The Doctor]

Looking at the groupings we are most vulnerable in the small forward and key forward areas.

Picko & Dicko have got possibly 1 year left. Honey a fair chance to go. That leaves Gowers and the younger boys who are still relatively unproven. I have genuine doubts about Dale in this kind of role. If Wingard is available it would seem a no brainer to me.

As the club seems intent on using Boyd as a ruckman we are too light in KP forwards. Redpath's future looks doubtful. That leaves only Schache. Boyd and Bont offer some back up at FF & CHF but is it enough? if we retain our 1st pick (6) then 200cm KP Ben King would be ideal

[bornadog]

As the club seems intent on using Boyd as a ruckman we are too light in KP forwards. Redpath's future looks doubtful. That leaves only Schache. Boyd and Bont offer some back up at FF & CHF but is it enough? if we retain our 1st pick (6) then 200cm KP Ben King would be ideal

The only reason why Boyd is used in the ruck is Bevo doesn't feel the other ruckman are up to it.

Once English develops into the number one role, Boyd will be more a KPP with short stints a as second ruck.

[The Doctor]

The only reason why Boyd is used in the ruck is Bevo doesn't feel the other ruckman are up to it.

Once English develops into the number one role, Boyd will be more a KPP with short stints a as second ruck.

I hope you are right. I've previously classified Boyd as a KF as per the OP. I'd still like to strengthen that part of our list

[Twodogs]

Looking at the lists of players the other problem we have is the age differences between the old and new groups.

[chef]

The only reason why Boyd is used in the ruck is Bevo doesn't feel the other ruckman are up to it.

Once English develops into the number one role, Boyd will be more a KPP with short stints a as second ruck.

Is this a hunch/hope or has Bevo said this?

[bulldogtragic]

Is this a hunch/hope or has Bevo said this?

Bevo said it.

[Go_Dogs]

Good stuff, Doc.

The mid-age player gap is definitely a concern (although we won the flag without a huge amount of depth there) which we should address via the FA market or cheap trade. I suppose the question is can we pick someone up there who will get a game ahead of our younger options. If the answer is yes,let's jump in. Trengove, Crozier, Suckling have all been good additions.

If we lose Rough, Campbell and Red then another KP/ruck becomes a need. Particularly if we lose Adams after delisting Collins. Maybe we can try a more realistic experiment and move Young forward over the ore-season?

If Dale/Greene can replace Dicko, and Wallis for Picko we again look OK for medium forwards given Gowers is now option one in that area.

Plenty of unknowns.

[Mofra]

Is this a hunch/hope or has Bevo said this?
In an interview a few months ago he mentioned Boyd being a KPF in his mid 20s.
He's still a pup for a big guy.

[GVGjr]

Despite my displeasure with 2 shitty seasons I'm very buoyed by our prospects over the next 2 seasons.
We have some immensely talented players and we have a strong and versatile spine.

The signings of both Liberatore and Wallis is important for us but if we also get both the trade and draft periods right this year we can start our bounce back to where we should be.

How great were last years additions for us? Schache got better as the year went on as did both Trengove and Crozier. We got a lot out of Gowers and both Naughton and Richards were excellent for us. That's 6 positive additions for us and that doesn't count the very noticeable improvement in the likes of Williams, Lynch, Lipinski and the enormous potential of English.

When you look at the list The Doctor has broken down for us there is plenty to get excited about. The 2018 season hasn't yet finished but I'm very much looking forward to the next few months to see how we position ourselves for the 2019 season.

It's going to be very interesting to see how this looks by the end of the year.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Despite my displeasure with 2 shitty seasons I'm very buoyed by our prospects over the next 2 seasons.
We have some immensely talented players and we have a strong and versatile spine.

The signings of both Liberatore and Wallis is important for us but if we also get both the trade and draft periods right this year we can start our bounce back to where we should be.

How great were last years additions for us? Schache got better as the year went on as did both Trengove and Crozier. We got a lot out of Gowers and both Naughton and Richards were excellent for us. That's 6 positive additions for us and that doesn't count the very noticeable improvement in the likes of Williams, Lynch, Lipinski and the enormous potential of English.

When you look at the list The Doctor has broken down for us there is plenty to get excited about. The 2018 season hasn't yet finished but I'm very much looking forward to the next few months to see how we position ourselves for the 2019 season.

It's going to be very interesting to see how this looks by the end of the year.

Agreed - a few holes to fill nevertheless but as the old saying goes - it's never as bad as it seems and it's never as good as it seems.

We can bounce back relatively quickly from here if we make astute list management decisions.

[bulldogtragic]

Despite my displeasure with 2 shitty seasons I'm very buoyed by our prospects over the next 2 seasons.
We have some immensely talented players and we have a strong and versatile spine.

The signings of both Liberatore and Wallis is important for us but if we also get both the trade and draft periods right this year we can start our bounce back to where we should be.

How great were last years additions for us? Schache got better as the year went on as did both Trengove and Crozier. We got a lot out of Gowers and both Naughton and Richards were excellent for us. That's 6 positive additions for us and that doesn't count the very noticeable improvement in the likes of Williams, Lynch, Lipinski and the enormous potential of English.

When you look at the list The Doctor has broken down for us there is plenty to get excited about. The 2018 season hasn't yet finished but I'm very much looking forward to the next few months to see how we position ourselves for the 2019 season.

It's going to be very interesting to see how this looks by the end of the year.

Bang on. That's why I'm hoping we add an elite player through the trading period to add to our young talent pool, Wingard seems to be one if we believe Stevo. Plus we add in Liberatore, who is an elite player at his best (that's two elite players added in from round 1, 2019). If we can get Boyd confident and fit up forward that's another avenue into success. Kids came on well, Dunkley broke his personal best on disposals 4 times in the last half of the year. I expect huge things from English. Then we add in two U/18 AA starting 18 players; Rhylee West into the midfield pool, and Buku Khamis into the attacking rebounding defender pool. Then rumours about Stengle or Lloyd to bolster the forwards pool. Then who knows if Adams gets his trade, and what we can turn that into.

Then with respect we've let go players with mild to moderate skill and performance issues. Dahl has been butchering the footy the last two years and missing simple goals. Biggs was poor. Honeychurch tried, but his kicking was average and was barely kicking 40m at goal. So we are eliminating these skill problems. Hopefully the players that replace them in these roles, are better kicks and with better skills and, if so, then we improve instantly in addition to the personnel improvements above.

If the coaches can improve their game plans and tactics, maybe next year might be a little more sunny.

[The Doctor]

Post 3 updated to include Redpath retirement.

[bulldogtragic]

Post 3 updated to include Redpath retirement.

So now it's just Schache & Boyd as tall forwards. We might need another one...

[ledge]

Strong reports coming through but not officially by the club , Wallis has accepted the Brisbane deal.

[bulldogtragic]

Strong reports coming through but not officially by the club , Wallis has accepted the Brisbane deal.

Hmmm. I hope it's untrue or a monster offer.

[EasternWest]

Strong reports coming through but not officially by the club , Wallis has accepted the Brisbane deal.

Well, that would suck, but I hope he's getting P. A. I. D.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Stevo said to relax a little as a dogs fan

[ledge]

Stevo said to relax a little as a dogs fan

Just saw that , whatever it means.
I Like Wallis wouldn’t want to see him go , but has he ever won a one on one contest and has he ever been the difference between a win and a loss ?
He is hard he gives his all but if we want that player who is capable of winning games we have to let some good players go.
Eg Wallis and Dahl go. , in come Wingard and West, what would you prefer ?

[bornadog]

So now it's just Schache & Boyd as tall forwards. We might need another one...

Young goes forward

[Grantysghost]

Just saw that , whatever it means.
I Like Wallis wouldn’t want to see him go , but has he ever won a one on one contest and has he ever been the difference between a win and a loss ?
He is hard he gives his all but if we want that player who is capable of winning games we have to let some good players go.
Eg Wallis and Dahl go. , in come Wingard and West, what would you prefer ?

It would be pretty dissapointing if we can't offer Mitch a better deal than the Lions. He's almost been our best player in the latter part of the season. My worry is the loss of guys in their prime years 25-29. You guys feel the same ?

[bulldogtragic]

It would be pretty dissapointing if we can't offer Mitch a better deal than the Lions. He's almost been our best player in the latter part of the season. My worry is the loss of guys in their prime years 25-29. You guys feel the same ?

I hope we made a strong pitch about where he will add the team the most and we gave a generous years/dollars offer. If another club outbids us on years, dollars or role than I accept that this is the sucky new world order where mature heart and soul players can be bought out of your club. I hope he signs, but like Dahlhaus, if he gets a much better offer and wants to go, then he goes with my thanks. Then I hope Sam Power grabs that freed salary cap and compo pick and goes to work bringing in mature bodies, because your point about bringing in mature talent is valid. Wingard would help us out...

[Ozza]

Just saw that , whatever it means.
I Like Wallis wouldn’t want to see him go , but has he ever won a one on one contest and has he ever been the difference between a win and a loss ?
He is hard he gives his all but if we want that player who is capable of winning games we have to let some good players go.
Eg Wallis and Dahl go. , in come Wingard and West, what would you prefer ?

Haven’t you seen Wallis play before.
Whether it is ground ball, or one on one marking contest - it is absolutely his strength.
Fair enough criticise Wallis’ lack of pace, or kicking penetration - but surely you can’t dispute his contest work.

[GVGjr]

Strong reports coming through but not officially by the club , Wallis has accepted the Brisbane deal.

Where are these reports Ledge? You've been most critical of media reporting for a year or so now so I'm wondering who's reporting it?

[GVGjr]

It would be pretty dissapointing if we can't offer Mitch a better deal than the Lions. He's almost been our best player in the latter part of the season. My worry is the loss of guys in their prime years 25-29. You guys feel the same ?

I doubt we have to offer a better deal just a competitive one. I hope we can get the deal done with Mitch

[Scraggers]

Where are these reports Ledge? You've been most critical of media reporting for a year or so now so I'm wondering who's reporting it?

A tweet from a person calling themselves @TheAFLUpdate tweeted two hours ago that Wallis was off to Brisbane. An hour later Mark Stevens tweeted in response “I’d relax a little if you’re a Doggies fan”.

So it’s speculation at best.

[GVGjr]

A tweet from a person calling themselves @TheAFLUpdate tweeted two hours ago that Wallis was off to Brisbane. An hour later Mark Stevens tweeted in response “I’d relax a little if you’re a Doggies fan”.

So it’s speculation at best.

There must be more to it though, since the Stringer speculation nearly 12 months ago Ledge has been very strong on only wanting to listen to credible media stories.

[soupman]

I Like Wallis wouldn’t want to see him go , but has he ever won a one on one contest and has he ever been the difference between a win and a loss ?
He is hard he gives his all but if we want that player who is capable of winning games we have to let some good players go.


Yeah I'm with you.

He is not a matchwinner and not a good enough structure player to be untouchable for mine, and i would not be offering him a very lucrative contract as I see him being that 15-25 ranked group with us.

I think we could get a similiar output from Sam Lloyd as a forward or Anthony Miles as a mid and either would be much more cost effective than Wallis.

[Mantis]

It would be pretty dissapointing if we can't offer Mitch a better deal than the Lions. He's almost been our best player in the latter part of the season. My worry is the loss of guys in their prime years 25-29. You guys feel the same ?

Not quite, he had a couple of strong games against Melb & Haw, but his form in the last 4-5 weeks was a little underwhelming.

Happy for him to stay, but won't be distraught if he moves on as I think others will move past him quickly over the next couple of years.

[Topdog]

Haven’t you seen Wallis play before.
Whether it is ground ball, or one on one marking contest - it is absolutely his strength.
Fair enough criticise Wallis’ lack of pace, or kicking penetration - but surely you can’t dispute his contest work.

Yep and his one on one marking ability is the reason he is our 3rd leading goalkicker

[Ozza]

Glad to see he has re-signed.

[ledge]

Glad he stayed , hope we can get Wingard to add to Wally’s pressure, Wingard could be the guy who takes advantage of it.

[Axe Man]

Glad he stayed , hope we can get Wingard to add to Wally’s pressure, Wingard could be the guy who takes advantage of it.

Not sure about that, one of the knocks on Wallis is the defensive side of his game.

[GVGjr]

Strong reports coming through but not officially by the club , Wallis has accepted the Brisbane deal.

Ledge was bang on not to listen to media speculation

[comrade]

Ledge was bang on not to listen to media speculation

Good lesson to be learned.

[Axe Man]

Ledge was bang on not to listen to media speculation

The Facebook page that reported that Wallis to Brisbane was a done deal got absolutely rinsed yesterday when he re-signed. They had to issue a big retraction, was quite amusing.

[Mofra]

Not sure about that, one of the knocks on Wallis is the defensive side of his game.
~4 tackles per game - he laid 10 tackles in the debacle against Adelaide. He has his flaws but defensive work isn't one of them for mine.

[GVGjr]

The Facebook page that reported that Wallis to Brisbane was a done deal got absolutely rinsed yesterday when he re-signed. They had to issue a big retraction, was quite amusing.

Surely FB wasn't what prompted the "Strong rumour" statement.

It's a bit ironic that we dismiss Mark Stevens because he's in the media but are prepared to back someone we don't know on FB.

[The Doctor]

Surely FB wasn't what prompted the "Strong rumour" statement.

It's a bit ironic that we dismiss Mark Stevens because he's in the media but are prepared to back someone we don't know on FB.

it's the silly season.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Surely FB wasn't what prompted the "Strong rumour" statement.

It's a bit ironic that we dismiss Mark Stevens because he's in the media but are prepared to back someone we don't know on FB.
I’d hazard a guess it was from that Facebook page

I’m always pretty confident in Stevos news on us.

[Mantis]

~4 tackles per game - he laid 10 tackles in the debacle against Adelaide. He has his flaws but defensive work isn't one of them for mine.

It's a huge flaw in his game... His defensive running patterns are the worst in our team.

And the Adelaide game was an absolute tackle fest due to the horrid conditions so this figure needs an asterix beside it.

[Mofra]

It's a huge flaw in his game... His defensive running patterns are the worst in our team.

And the Adelaide game was an absolute tackle fest due to the horrid conditions so this figure needs an asterix beside it.
He's still 6th on our list for average tackles per game this year. Amazing effort if it's a 'huge flaw'

[Mantis]

He's still 6th on our list for average tackles per game this year. Amazing effort if it's a 'huge flaw'

I'm not sure why tackle numbers is seen as the best indicator in a players ability to defend... So much more to it.

When Mitch is around the ball he tackles well, but his running ability in transition is poor.

[EasternWest]

It's a huge flaw in his game... His defensive running patterns are the worst in our team.

I have absolutely no idea what this even means.

[Topdog]

I have absolutely no idea what this even means.

He doesn't know where to run to when the opposition have the ball

[jeemak]

He doesn't know where to run to when the opposition have the ball

Or too slow to respond or not inclined to respond.

[ratsmac]

Should we start to be concerned that Libba hasn't signed yet?

[jeemak]

Should we start to be concerned that Libba hasn't signed yet?

I think he's still away.

[bornadog]

Should we start to be concerned that Libba hasn't signed yet?

Still on leave, no doubt he will sign - ( I hope :D )

[ratsmac]

I think he's still away.


Still on leave, no doubt he will sign - ( I hope :D )

Libba on holidays can be dangerous. He's a loose unit. :cool:

[Mantis]

He doesn't know where to run to when the opposition have the ball


Or too slow to respond or not inclined to respond.

Yep, he is often the last of our players to respond and then just runs around (slowly) like a headless chook.

Mitch mentioned that this will be his first proper pre-season so hopefully he can work on his repeat sprint efforts.. even though he isn't quick he needs to be able to be able to run at his max. for longer which he hasn't been capable of doing previously which has been no doubt hindered by his horrid broken leg.

[The Doctor]

An update on how I'm now working this thread.

Post 1 will remain to show how the list started in 2018

Post 3 will be updated when any changes occur. Once the trade/draft period is over we will be able to look back and see what we've done & compare the lists.

today Post 3 the draft picks as they stand; 6, 25, 44, 61 & 62 have been updated

[The Doctor]

[U]
Medium/Small Forwards

Picken 31, Dickson 30, Lloyd 28, Honeychurch 23, Gowers 22*, Dale 21, Greene 20, Lipinski 19,


Draft Picks

7, 27, 45, 63

Sam Lloyd into small forwards group (Post 3), pick 64 out

[lemmon]

Sam Lloyd into small forwards group (Post 3), pick 64 out

Lack of pace in that group is a concern. I hope we're targeting a guy in the draft that'll help our forward pressure.

[Testekill]

Lack of pace in that group is a concern. I hope we're targeting a guy in the draft that'll help our forward pressure.

We're reportedly keen on Ben Cavarra from Williamstown who could fill that role.

[The Doctor]

Medium/Small Defenders

Suckling 29, Wood 28, Duryea 27, Johannisen 25, Crozier 24, Webb 22, Williams 20, R.Smith 21*, Lynch 20* Richards 18


Draft Picks

7, 27, 45, 63

Updated in post 3 to include Taylor Duryea.

No change to current draft pick order as it was for a 2019 4th round pick

[ledge]

Updated in post 3 to include Taylor Duryea.

No change to current draft pick order as it was for a 2019 4th round pick

And depending what we get for ADams and Roughy , I imagine another 2nd and 4th rounders ?

[The Doctor]

As we head into the final day of the trade period the situation for us as it stands

- we have 3 spots on our list available after 5 delistings and 2 additions
- Lynch, Gowers & Smith still on the rookie list
- current draft picks are 7, 27, 45, 63
- Roughead and Adams likely to depart to give us 5 free spots on the list
- Libba, Campbell & Honeychurch remain unsigned

[The Doctor]

As we head into the final day of the trade period the situation for us as it stands

- we have 5 spots on our list available after 7 delistings and 2 additions

- Lynch, Gowers & Smith still on the rookie list

- current draft picks are 7, 27, 32, 45, 63, 75

- Libba, Campbell & Honeychurch remain unsigned

updated after Adams & Roughead trades

Adams for pick 32 & 2019 3rd round pick

Roughead for pick 75

[The Doctor]

Updated after trade/delisting period 2018


Medium/Small Forwards

Picken 31, Dickson 30, Lloyd 28, Gowers 22*, Dale 21, Greene 20, Lipinski 19,


Ruckmen

Boyd 22, English 20


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Delisted 9 from main list, 1 from rookie list

J.Roughead, J.Redpath 27, S.Biggs 26, T.Campbell 26, C. Smith 25, M.Adams 25, L.Dahlhaus 25, M.Honeychurch, N. Mullenger-McHugh 21*, K.Collins 20,


Out of Contract

Restricted Free agents - Liberatore


----------------------------------------------
Trade Ins

Lloyd (Rich), Duryea (Haw)

Draft Picks

7, 27, 32, 45, 63, 75

Tom Campbell & Mitch Honeychurch delisted