Pick 7

[bulldogtragic]

So, with the loss tonight we are effectivly three wins off Fremantle (2 and heaps of percentage) and effectively two wins over GCS (1 win and heaps of percentage). We are 99% assured of finishing 14th.

So, as of 20 minutes ago, we have all but secured pick 5 in a strong draft now. This is the silver lining for the season we are having, now what to do with it in addition to Rhylee West & Buku Khamis coming in as a FS & NGA to rebuild to what we all want to taste again?

[kruder]

X Factor

[Remi Moses]

So, with the loss tonight we are effectivly three wins off Fremantle (2 and heaps of percentage) and effectively two wins over GCS (1 win and heaps of percentage). We are 99% assured of finishing 14th.

So, as of 20 minutes ago, we have all but secured pick 5 in a strong draft now. This is the silver lining for the season we are having, now what to do with it in addition to Rhylee West & Buku Khamis coming in as a FS & NGA to rebuild to what we all want to taste again?

Nice TISM there Trag. Best player available for me

[bulldogtragic]

I wonder if BAD or others would use it with some huge money to get a bona fide top line midfielder, or take a top 5 kid at the draft?

[bornadog]

I wonder if BAD or others would use it with some huge money to get a bona fide top line midfielder, or take a top 5 kid at the draft?

I would depending on who it is? I would certainly give it up for Josh Kelly.

[DOG GOD]

I would depending on who it is? I would certainly give it up for Josh Kelly.

Agree, if we could land Josh Kelly, I’d do it in a heartbeat, otherwise to the draft we go.

[EasternWest]

I would depending on who it is? I would certainly give it up for Josh Kelly.

To be honest BAD, I'd give up pick 5 and throw you in as steak knives to get Kelly ;).

[ratsmac]

Future stars have Norf getting pick 5 for some reason. Did I miss something? How does than happen?

[bulldogtragic]

Future stars have Norf getting pick 5 for some reason. Did I miss something? How does than happen?

Academy player of theirs. Twomey has us nominating TT, and North matching as quick as they press the 'match bid' button.

[GVGjr]

Future stars have Norf getting pick 5 for some reason. Did I miss something? How does than happen?

I haven't seen the show but it would be us nominating Taryn Thomas who is a North Academy player and North matching it.

[bornadog]

To be honest BAD, I'd give up pick 5 and throw you in as steak knives to get Kelly ;).

I could be his personal water boy:D

[Eastdog]

Was speaking to my mate today and he said you would think Rhylee West would come to us and be in the senior team pretty quickly.

[EasternWest]

I could be his personal water boy:D

But you'd be in GWS. You can run Cameron his water.

[Rocket Science]

Was speaking to my mate today and he said you would think Rhylee West would come to us and be in the senior team pretty quickly.

If the club's of the same view it may explain our apparent shift on whether Wallis is a required player.

[ledge]

If the club's of the same view it may explain our apparent shift on whether Wallis is a required player.
I would get rid of honeychurch or Webb before Wallis .

[bulldogtragic]

Potential trading options, other than Kelly, if we wanted to busy in the trade period might be:

GCS have West Coasts first rounder, in addition to maybe pick 2. Say a GCS player that makes going down from pick 5 to say pick 16. There's plenty of highly talented kids who may want out. Picks 2 & 5 is a strong hand for them. Pick 16 & who makes it a win for us to trade pick 5?

Adelaide have Melbourne's first rounder, in addition to say pick 9. They might want to secure Rankine with pick 5. So an Adelaide player that makes going down from pick 5 to say pick 15. McGovern apparently wants to play in Victoria. Would McGovern/other and pick 15 make it a win for us?

[Twodogs]

McGovern is a good footballer and a basic rule of football is you can never have enough good footballers, but do we need another KP player before we get some players who can kick tge footy onto the list?

[bulldogtragic]

McGovern is a good footballer and a basic rule of football is you can never have enough good footballers, but do we need another KP player before we get some players who can kick tge footy onto the list?

McGovern is only 191cm, to say Stringer who is 192cm. Smaller than Jake, but McGovern can play taller than he actually is. But I guess the premise with the Adelaide hypothetical, is whether they desperately want Rankine so much that they'd offer a player we want to take a 10 pick downgrade for? So still having a first rounder, but a long way off a top 5 pick. Who might work for both clubs?

Or the same with GCS?

[Twodogs]

It would have to be a really good deal for me to be tempted to give up pick five.

[bulldogtragic]

It would have to be a really good deal for me to be tempted to give up pick five.

Like McGovern? Milera?
Like Martin? Ainsworth? Miller? Sexton?

Edit: Melbourne were burned by trading pick 2 for 9 and Dom Tyson - Pick 2 being Josh Kelly. So I wonder if this cautions Sam Power, or if there's a good offer to take it.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Like McGovern? Milera?
Like Martin? Ainsworth? Miller? Sexton?

Edit: Melbourne were burned by trading pick 2 for 9 and Dom Tyson - Pick 2 being Josh Kelly. So I wonder if this cautions Sam Power, or if there's a good offer to take it.

Is Swallow gettable? If his injuries are behind him, he'd strenthen our midfield and his age and experience bracket would be appealing, in regards to impact straight away.
Not sure they'd entertain it though, or whether he'd want to leave.

[Twodogs]

Like McGovern? Milera?
Like Martin? Ainsworth? Miller? Sexton?

Edit: Melbourne were burned by trading pick 2 for 9 and Dom Tyson - Pick 2 being Josh Kelly. So I wonder if this cautions Sam Power, or if there's a good offer to take it.

None of them would tempt me. I've gone off Josh Kelly big time too. This time last year I would have given up pick 5 for him but I've seen a couple of things from him this year that I haven't liked and he's slipped in my estimation.

[Mofra]

Is Swallow gettable? If his injuries are behind him, he'd strenthen our midfield and his age and experience bracket would be appealing, in regards to impact straight away.
Not sure they'd entertain it though, or whether he'd want to leave.
GCS will fight tooth and nail to retain every player they possibly can. They have been swimming in picks for years, they want players because so few players will go there (e.g. Jong stayed with us for much less).

Richmond is where I'd be swimming. Shai Bolton would be perfect for us but can hardly get a game at the Tigers, he's gettable.
Miles is killing it in the VFL and would cost virtually nothing if we're after mature aged mids for depth.

[Axe Man]

None of them would tempt me. I've gone off Josh Kelly big time too. This time last year I would have given up pick 5 for him but I've seen a couple of things from him this year that I haven't liked and he's slipped in my estimation.

He's had some injury issues this year but has been close to BOG in his last 2 games.

[Doc26]

Is Swallow gettable? If his injuries are behind him, he'd strenthen our midfield and his age and experience bracket would be appealing, in regards to impact straight away.
Not sure they'd entertain it though, or whether he'd want to leave.

I've got a feeling that he's signed until end of 2019 with GCS.

[Twodogs]

He's had some injury issues this year but has been close to BOG in his last 2 games.

He was very good last week. When he's on his game there aren't many better players

[bulldogtragic]

With Freo winning, we can't jump them now. Three wins above what they win won't happen. So pick 5 is the worst pick we will receive now (pick 23 to Carlton). If Brisbane keep form we will finish with pick 4 (liveladders.com.au predicting this now - them getting an extra win than us). If St Kilda outperform us by just 1 extra win too, then it's pick 3.

Pick 3 or 4 may be on the cards now. Rankine, Walsh &/or Smith looking like Whitten Oval bound!

[kruder]

With Freo winning, we can't jump them now. Three wins above what they win won't happen. So pick 5 is the worst pick we will receive now (pick 23 to Carlton). If Brisbane keep form we will finish with pick 4 (liveladders.com.au predicting this now - them getting an extra win than us). If St Kilda outperform us by just 1 extra win too, then it's pick 3.

Pick 3 or 4 may be on the cards now. Rankine, Walsh &/or Smith looking like Whitten Oval bound!

The gold coast will get a pick for lynch surely.

[bulldogtragic]

The gold coast will get a pick for lynch surely.

Maybe they take the King brothers to replace Lynch. Maybe?

[Dry Rot]

I've gone off Josh Kelly big time too. This time last year I would have given up pick 5 for him but I've seen a couple of things from him this year that I haven't liked and he's slipped in my estimation.

What have you seen that you don't like about Kelly?

[kruder]

Maybe they take the King brothers to replace Lynch. Maybe?

Yep they will have to consider no doubt.

[GVGjr]

Maybe they take the King brothers to replace Lynch. Maybe?
We might very well have pick 5 or 6 in the draft when GC get compensation for Lynch

Still it puts us in a strong spot to get a great player.

[Scraggers]

We might very well have pick 5 or 6 in the draft when GC get compensation for Lynch

Still it puts us in a strong spot to get a great player.

Particularly if Carlton relent and ask for a priority pick.

[Twodogs]

What have you seen that you don't like about Kelly?


More of a lack of what I saw. When GWS were under seige earlier in the season I didn't see any ownership of the problem or leadership from Kelly. I would have liked to seen a sign from him putting his hand up and saying "We all own this problem and as a leader I am going to do my bit to help us find our way out of it" Intead he has a form slump. He's not the player I thought he was.

[Axe Man]

Particularly if Carlton relent and ask for a priority pick.

I highly doubt any priority picks will be after the club's first pick, they will most likely be at the end of the first round.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I highly doubt any priority picks will be after the club's first pick, they will most likely be at the end of the first round.

Yes the only pick that can come in before our first is if Gold Coast receive first round comp for Lynch

[Greystache]

With Freo winning, we can't jump them now. Three wins above what they win won't happen. So pick 5 is the worst pick we will receive now (pick 23 to Carlton). If Brisbane keep form we will finish with pick 4 (liveladders.com.au predicting this now - them getting an extra win than us). If St Kilda outperform us by just 1 extra win too, then it's pick 3.

Pick 3 or 4 may be on the cards now. Rankine, Walsh &/or Smith looking like Whitten Oval bound!

I think we can beat Carlton but that will be it for the rest of the year. St Kilda will need to win 2 to go past us, so assuming they beat us, they'll need to find another win which won't be easy given they have some tough games to finish. Brisbane I'm pretty confident will finish in front of us. Gold Coast and Carlton are a shambles. So I'd assume we'll finish 15th or 16th with 6 wins and a % potentially below 70. Truly disgraceful from a team that won a premiership 2 seasons earlier.

Pick 3 or 4 will be little consolation.

[bulldogtragic]

I think we can beat Carlton but that will be it for the rest of the year. St Kilda will need to win 2 to go past us, so assuming they beat us, they'll need to find another win which won't be easy given they have some tough games to finish. Brisbane I'm pretty confident will finish in front of us. Gold Coast and Carlton are a shambles. So I'd assume we'll finish 15th or 16th with 6 wins and a % potentially below 70. Truly disgraceful from a team that won a premiership 2 seasons earlier.

Pick 3 or 4 will be little consolation.

Falling from first to 16th in two years, with largely the same list. Must be a modern football record. Is holding a record any consolation? I jest of course, as once all these incidents of repeated bad luck (aka injuries) are finished with then it's back to September. I jest of course again. Pretty damn demoralising to climb Mount Everest and decide the easiest way to stay up there is to fall or jump straight over the cliff. Looking to pick 3 or 4 is all we have for this shambles of a year now. If we can move some free agents to get some more draft points, maybe they can sell the supporter base and members, look we netted 3 starting 18 AA U/18 kids. That I can begin to see some light. Big then there's guys contracted for next year like Roberts & Redpath just getting in the day of players that can get on the park or get selected. The next two years worth of list management is going to have to be big and hard. But where was I? My happy place, 3 starting 18 AA U/18 kids, grandma and chubs playing the piano with his hand back.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Falling from first to 16th in two years, with largely the same list. Must be a modern football record. Is holding a record any consolation? I jest of course, as once all these incidents of repeated bad luck (aka injuries) are finished with then it's back to September. I jest of course again. Pretty damn demoralising to climb Mount Everest and decide the easiest way to stay up there is to fall or jump straight over the cliff. Looking to pick 3 or 4 is all we have for this shambles of a year now. If we can move some free agents to get some more draft points, maybe they can sell the supporter base and members, look we netted 3 starting 18 AA U/18 kids. That I can begin to see some light. Big then there's guys contracted for next year like Roberts & Redpath just getting in the day of players that can get on the park or get selected. The next two years worth of list management is going to have to be big and hard. But where was I? My happy place, 3 starting 18 AA U/18 kids, grandma and chubs playing the piano with his hand back.
Don’t forget the dwarf on the wodden pony

[bulldogtragic]

Don’t forget the dwarf on the wodden pony

Thanks. Although St Kilda's Clint Jones is chasing him with a cigarette lighter for some reason... Oh. Oh, no!

[GVGjr]

Particularly if Carlton relent and ask for a priority pick.

I don't think they can get one, perhaps at the end of the first round but they shouldn't receive one.

[kruder]

[QUOTE=GVGjr;609676]We might very well have pick 5 or 6 in the draft when GC get compensation for Lynch

Do you think its makes a big difference if we have pick 4 or 6? Just looking at a few of the under 18s game and highlights videos only a small sample size I know but my feeling is that this years draft isn't much better than the last few.

[GVGjr]

[QUOTE=GVGjr;609676]We might very well have pick 5 or 6 in the draft when GC get compensation for Lynch

Do you think its makes a big difference if we have pick 4 or 6? Just looking at a few of the under 18s game and highlights videos only a small sample size I know but my feeling is that this years draft isn't much better than the last few.

I think it's stronger with the first 8 picks but it's probably just a bit above average after that. I don't rate it as a super draft.

[Mofra]

Falling from first to 16th in two years, with largely the same list. .
Surely you jest?

[bulldogtragic]

Surely you jest?

The possible 16th finish, or the word largely? We may finish 16th. And depends on how you define 'largely'.

[Mofra]

The possible 16th finish, or the word largely? We may finish 16th. And depends on how you define 'largely'.
"Largely the same list" - we've had significant turnover especially in the back half.

At times we play only 1-2 of the defenders in the GF on our side, and even then one of them will play away from defence (often JJ, although Biggs in his few appearances this year has been thrown forward).

Our F50 of Boyd, Dickson Picken, Zaine, Stringer, McLean and Smith - Zaine has often moved back, Boyd into the ruck (when fit), Mclean into the middle, the others gone.

Bobt and Macrae have missed games, Libba the season, Roughy's been more out than in, Murphy and Matty Boyd retired, etc etc.

[Greystache]

"Largely the same list" - we've had significant turnover especially in the back half.

At times we play only 1-2 of the defenders in the GF on our side, and even then one of them will play away from defence (often JJ, although Biggs in his few appearances this year has been thrown forward).

Our F50 of Boyd, Dickson Picken, Zaine, Stringer, McLean and Smith - Zaine has often moved back, Boyd into the ruck (when fit), Mclean into the middle, the others gone.

Bobt and Macrae have missed games, Libba the season, Roughy's been more out than in, Murphy and Matty Boyd retired, etc etc.

The team from the 2016 finals is very much largely still in tact. The fact we play them in alternate roles, in the reserves, or they aren't contributing doesn't make the list any less in tact.

Players who played in the 2016 finals who are still at the club;

Suckling
Bont
Dunkey
Dahlhaus
Hunter
Wood
Macrae
Cordy
McLean
Boyd
Roberts
Roughead
Libba
Biggs
Dickson
Daniel
Morris
JJ
Picken
Jong

Out of the club is M Boyd, Stringer, and Hamling, unless I'm missing some?

Libba, Picken, Dickson, and Smith has missed chunks of footy but have also played regularly last season. Conversely we've added to that group Wallis, Williams, Richards, and Gowers who've all made contributions to the team.

The fact that a number of players have been played out of position and struggled, while others have gone backwards, and some haven't kicked on doesn't mean the list isn't the same list. Coaching, development, and injury management have been a massive failure in the past 2 years, along with some questionable commitment from a number of players.

The list IS largely the same, the output from the list is what's changed dramatically.

[bulldogtragic]

Sorry for the delay, but Grey sums up what I was going to respond. The list by and large is the same, but the positions of players, development, medical support, ability to motivate the players and coaching tactics seem off. So yep, I think the list is largely the same.

[bornadog]

Sorry for the delay, but Grey sums up what I was going to respond. The list by and large is the same, but the positions of players, development, medical support, ability to motivate the players and coaching tactics seem off. So yep, I think the list is largely the same.

The list may be the same to a certain extent but we have been lucky to play 10 premiership players every week in the seniors due to injury and some poor form from guys like Roberts.

[bulldogtragic]

The list may be the same to a certain extent but we have been lucky to play 10 premiership players every week in the seniors due to injury and some poor form from guys like Roberts.

Sure, but I was asked if I was jesting about the list being largely the same. A specific question to me. That's what I answered. As Grey said, and what you've said, there's lots of issues but the list is largely the same.

[Mofra]

Suckling
Bont
Dunkey
Dahlhaus
Hunter
Wood
Macrae
Cordy
McLean
Boyd
Roberts
Roughead
Libba
Biggs
Dickson
Daniel
Morris
JJ
Picken
Jong

Of that list of 20 players two didn't play in the GF, two have been out all year injured and Dickson has been unavailable most of the year, ditto Morris.

That means less than 70% of the GF side has been available to us in just over a season after the GF, That's a significant turnover even before we consider form and other injuries ruling players out. We've generally been playing a side that has had more than 50% turnover from the GF - less than half is not 'largely' in my book, but we can agree to disagree.

[Greystache]

Of that list of 20 players two didn't play in the GF, two have been out all year injured and Dickson has been unavailable most of the year, ditto Morris.

That means less than 70% of the GF side has been available to us in just over a season after the GF, That's a significant turnover even before we consider form and other injuries ruling players out. We've generally been playing a side that has had more than 50% turnover from the GF - less than half is not 'largely' in my book, but we can agree to disagree.

That was the list of everyone who played in the finals series. I didn't mention the grand final. Suckling and Jong were selected when they were fit, so you can only assume they would've played in the GF if not injured.

Libba and Picken have missed this season but played most of last season and we finished 10th. Wallis and Murphy missed big chunks of the 2016 season and we covered them. Dickson has had ongoing injury issues but some of that has to come down to how we've managed him. We had injuries in 2016 and we have injuries in 2018, they cancel each other out.

Players playing reserves because we've either changed their roles to the point they don't know they're doing, found roles they couldn't perform and persisted with them, or have dropped off due to lack of motivation or lack of faith from the MC doesn't make them unavailable, it means we've failed in one area or another to the point that in 2 years players who could win a premiership now can't get a game in a team that's getting pumped most weeks.

The list is largely the same as 2016 that is a reality. That fact we're often only selecting 50% of the team at times is an indictment of what's gone on in the past 2 years, not a reflection of list changes.

[Mofra]

That was the list of everyone who played in the finals series. I didn't mention the grand final. Suckling and Jong were selected when they were fit, so you can only assume they would've played in the GF if not injured.

Libba and Picken have missed this season but played most of last season and we finished 10th. Wallis and Murphy missed big chunks of the 2016 season and we covered them. Dickson has had ongoing injury issues but some of that has to come down to how we've managed him. We had injuries in 2016 and we have injuries in 2018, they cancel each other out.

Players playing reserves because we've either changed their roles to the point they don't know they're doing, found roles they couldn't perform and persisted with them, or have dropped off due to lack of motivation or lack of faith from the MC doesn't make them unavailable, it means we've failed in one area or another to the point that in 2 years players who could win a premiership now can't get a game in a team that's getting pumped most weeks.

The list is largely the same as 2016 that is a reality. That fact we're often only selecting 50% of the team at times is an indictment of what's gone on in the past 2 years, not a reflection of list changes.
There's a lot that gone wrong no doubt, but right now a fit Stringer, Murphy, M. Boyd, Hamling, Picken, Libba, Suckling etc would be playing for us.

To suggest 'largely the same list' implies that list changes have either no or minimal impact on our current fortunes which is not something I can agree with. We've brought in a bunch of kids to replace experience and as noted by many senior footballers, if you replace enough experience with enough inexperience you soon reach a critical mass that makes it much more difficult to compete.

The week before last we had Honeychurch and Porter as the only AFL listed midfielders playing VFL. The cupboard is bare and I absolutely believe that strengthening the list strengthens our AFL side.

[Topdog]

I think we can beat Carlton but that will be it for the rest of the year. St Kilda will need to win 2 to go past us, so assuming they beat us, they'll need to find another win which won't be easy given they have some tough games to finish. Brisbane I'm pretty confident will finish in front of us. Gold Coast and Carlton are a shambles. So I'd assume we'll finish 15th or 16th with 6 wins and a % potentially below 70. Truly disgraceful from a team that won a premiership 2 seasons earlier.

Pick 3 or 4 will be little consolation.

We need another rooting thread, unfortunately this time it is in reverse

[Twodogs]

We need another rooting thread, unfortunately this time it is in reverse


I don't even think that rooting is going to cheer me up.

[Remi Moses]

The drop off has been hugely disappointing? But it’s a little simplistic to discount the constant long injury list .
Added to losing Picken, Murphy, Boyd , Liberatore . There’s 1200 games gone , right there !
The club deserves to be scrutinised, but that has been extenuating circumstances that have contributed .

[Remi Moses]

They’ve had sometimes nine or ten premiership players playing from week to week .
We’re all p***ed off , but the constant negativity is making this site hard to read

[bornadog]

They’ve had sometimes nine or ten premiership players playing from week to week .
We’re all p***ed off , but the constant negativity is making this site hard to read

I agree, the old negative nellies have come out firing.

BTW, I think we will finish with pick 4, and that is being realistic based on the players we have available

[bulldogtragic]

They’ve had sometimes nine or ten premiership players playing from week to week .
We’re all p***ed off , but the constant negativity is making this site hard to read

Ok, I'll bite. What is the specific 'constant' 'negativity' that makes the site hard to read? I actually wouldn't mind knowing. Are there trending topics, recurring themes, dissected issues that posters are using fact based opinions or thoughts/perceptions on which may differ to others, or are these posters just making blanket 'everyone's super shit' or 'pack your bags McBeveridge' type statements?

[Mofra]

Ok, I'll bite. What is the specific 'constant' 'negativity' that makes the site hard to read? I actually wouldn't mind knowing. Are there trending topics, recurring themes, dissected issues that posters are using fact based opinions or thoughts/perceptions on which may differ to others, or are these posters just making blanket 'everyone's super shit' or 'pack your bags McBeveridge' type statements?
For a start - players who come into our system or come off injury being branded as mistakes, wastes of a trade/list spots etc.
Crozier being a prime example.

[Greystache]

Ok, I'll bite. What is the specific 'constant' 'negativity' that makes the site hard to read? I actually wouldn't mind knowing. Are there trending topics, recurring themes, dissected issues that posters are using fact based opinions or thoughts/perceptions on which may differ to others, or are these posters just making blanket 'everyone's super shit' or 'pack your bags McBeveridge' type statements?

I think nuanced conversation is probably a bit beyond some, they'd only be able to understand it as "negativity" or "bagging the club" and prefer to chant the club knows best etc. I wouldn't give it any notice BT, it's the equivalent of people at games screaming "just kick it long" or "man up on them".

[Greystache]

I agree, the old negative nellies have come out firing.

BTW, I think we will finish with pick 4, and that is being realistic based on the players we have available

Agree, the club knows best.

[GVGjr]

For a start - players who come into our system or come off injury being branded as mistakes, wastes of a trade/list spots etc.
Crozier being a prime example.

I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing how Crozier plays for us over the next few seasons. He has a good balance of athleticism and skills we need. With a bit of luck on the injury front he could be a solid addition for us

[bornadog]

Agree, the club knows best.

That is what Remi is talking about, stupid comments like that - just not necessary.

[Greystache]

That is what Remi is talking about, stupid comments like that - just not necessary.

It was mirroring your mindless rhetoric about negative nellies. Stupid comment with no purpose but you obviously missed that point.

[bornadog]

Getting back to the topic, I did a ladder predictor and we are in line for pick 4.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Getting back to the topic, I did a ladder predictor and we are in line for pick 4.

Yep, me too. I’ve been saying for a few weeks that Brisbane will go past us and I think the Saints game is the one that’ll determine whether we are 16th or 15th. Freo winning last week was a nice surprise.

[Mofra]

I'm genuinely looking forward to seeing how Crozier plays for us over the next few seasons. He has a good balance of athleticism and skills we need. With a bit of luck on the injury front he could be a solid addition for us
I think that sort of pick up is perfect for us - cost little, showed a high ceiling but hasn't produced it consistently, and instinctive footballer playing under a very rule-heavy coach.

We've had some luck with players who cost us little (e.g. Biggs, Hamling, Suckling, Trengove). If the Lloyd rumours are true, that will be another cheap one for next year as a direct replacement for Dickson's style of play.

[Grantysghost]

Getting back to the topic, I did a ladder predictor and we are in line for pick 4.

Would that become 5 with Lynch compo? (I get confused).

[Axe Man]

Would that become 5 with Lynch compo? (I get confused).

Yes. If Gold Coast get free agency compensation for Lynch then it will push our pick back 1 spot provided we finish above Gold Coast. A better outcome for us will be if Gold Coast choose to match the offer for Lynch and force a trade

[Mofra]

Yes. If Gold Coast get free agency compensation for Lynch then it will push our pick back 1 spot provided we finish above Gold Coast. A better outcome for us will be if Gold Coast choose to match the offer for Lynch and force a trade
It would be a difficult conversation for them but I think they need to go that route. Just allowing captain after captain to walk out will do them no good in the long term. I imagine they'd try and get a mature player coming back too on top of any picks.

[Dancin' Douggy]

if Gold Coast do get 2 picks, what's the chance of them taking both King brothers?
Might leave us the type of player we want anyway?

I'm into Rankine myself.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I think that sort of pick up is perfect for us - cost little, showed a high ceiling but hasn't produced it consistently, and instinctive footballer playing under a very rule-heavy coach.

We've had some luck with players who cost us little (e.g. Biggs, Hamling, Suckling, Trengove). If the Lloyd rumours are true, that will be another cheap one for next year as a direct replacement for Dickson's style of play.

Whilst I agree on the whole and don't mind Lloyd, Trengove has been poor outside of a few games IMO.

I thought he'd be serviceable as a defender but he's far too slow by foot and he doesn't read the play. His only position going forward is ruck IMO. There's been times he's been so poor yet hasn't quite been put to the sword on the scoreboard (both Geelong and Hawthorn games).

Conversation for another topic I guess but I would rather we play Collins for a month at FB to gauge if he's worth keeping or not.

[Twodogs]

Whilst I agree on the whole and don't mind Lloyd, Trengove has been poor outside of a few games IMO.

I thought he'd be serviceable as a defender but he's far too slow by foot and he doesn't read the play. His only position going forward is ruck IMO. There's been times he's been so poor yet hasn't quite been put to the sword on the scoreboard (both Geelong and Hawthorn games).

Conversation for another topic I guess but I would rather we play Collins for a month at FB to gauge if he's worth keeping or not.


Just before trade period last year I asked a mate of mine who follows Port about Trengove. The first thing he said was "mate he has just gotten so slow by foot over the last 18 months.

[Mofra]

if Gold Coast do get 2 picks, what's the chance of them taking both King brothers?
Might leave us the type of player we want anyway?
With 2MP & Day on the list and Swallow rumoured to want out, I'd say close to zero. If they did have picks 3 and 4 (and didn't trade one od them to Adelaide) I'd imagine they'd consider either one or two mids.

[bornadog]

Just before trade period last year I asked a mate of mine who follows Port about Trengove. The first thing he said was "mate he has just gotten so slow by foot over the last 18 months.

Well, I think Trengove has been a good addition to the club especially with young KPPs in the team like Naughton 18 yrs, Young 19, Collins 20, English 20. We saw how quickly Young slowed down and who knows what happens to Naughton in year two. These guys will be good, but need experience and maturity to contribute regularly.

By the time Trengove has finished his contract, ie in another two years, these guys will be in their 20's. This is what I call good list management, ie thinking about the future and who will replace who.

He started the year badly but has gradually improved.

Quiz - Who is the last player to take 11 marks in our backline? Trengove did against the Hawks and has had 9, a few 7s this season.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Well, I think Trengove has been a good addition to the club especially with young KPPs in the team like Naughton 18 yrs, Young 19, Collins 20, English 20. We saw how quickly Young slowed down and who knows what happens to Naughton in year two. These guys will be good, but need experience and maturity to contribute regularly.

By the time Trengove has finished his contract, ie in another two years, these guys will be in their 20's. This is what I call good list management, ie thinking about the future and who will replace who.

He started the year badly but has gradually improved.

Quiz - Who is the last player to take 11 marks in our backline? Trengove did against the Hawks and has had 9, a few 7s this season.

I understand the need for senior heads around the club but how many do we need? Morris and Wood should be enough for the back half, whilst JJ is in the leadership group.

Not sure paying Trengove 5-600k for 4 years (or whatever it is) is worth it just for the sake of being a senior head in the rooms.

On field, we would get about the same from Roberts and as I said above I'd prefer we try to develop Collins to see if he's worth keeping or not.

As far as stats for marks, it means little unless they are all intercepts - which they weren't.

He seems like a nice guy and a good clubman but Trengove hasn't been a good selection and we have 3 more years of him.

[Mofra]

Well, I think Trengove has been a good addition to the club especially with young KPPs in the team like Naughton 18 yrs, Young 19, Collins 20, English 20. We saw how quickly Young slowed down and who knows what happens to Naughton in year two. These guys will be good, but need experience and maturity to contribute regularly.

By the time Trengove has finished his contract, ie in another two years, these guys will be in their 20's. This is what I call good list management, ie thinking about the future and who will replace who.

He started the year badly but has gradually improved.

Quiz - Who is the last player to take 11 marks in our backline? Trengove did against the Hawks and has had 9, a few 7s this season.
Bevo all but said going forward Trengove would be the back up ruck option for English/Boyd combo.

I suggest from a list management perspective getting Trengove will allow us to be a little more creative this year.

[Mofra]

I understand the need for senior heads around the club but how many do we need? Morris and Wood should be enough for the back half, whilst JJ is in the leadership group.
Morris will managed a handful of games this year, ditto Wood, and JJ has played all over the paddock.

We're putting out the first or second youngest team each week, I certainly don't think we're avoiding our player development. When Roberts, Collins and Young were all available for one backline spot earlier this year we played Young ahead of the other two and TBH I really don't see it with Collins.
Hope he proves me wrong but I just don't see it.

[bornadog]

I understand the need for senior heads around the club but how many do we need? Morris and Wood should be enough for the back half, whilst JJ is in the leadership group.

Not sure paying Trengove 5-600k for 4 years (or whatever it is) is worth it just for the sake of being a senior head in the rooms.

On field, we would get about the same from Roberts and as I said above I'd prefer we try to develop Collins to see if he's worth keeping or not.

As far as stats for marks, it means little unless they are all intercepts - which they weren't.

He seems like a nice guy and a good clubman but Trengove hasn't been a good selection and we have 3 more years of him.

TBB, sorry what I meant was not the leadership aspect (which he has), but rather a mature tall. None of Morris, Wood or JJ fit into that mold. I think Trengove is better than Roberts.


Bevo all but said going forward Trengove would be the back up ruck option for English/Boyd combo.

I suggest from a list management perspective getting Trengove will allow us to be a little more creative this year.

Thanks Moff I forgot about that.

I haven't seen too many VFL games this year, but Collins has a long way to go, but as TBB said, give him a go and see if he will make it.

[LostDoggy]

I understand the need for senior heads around the club but how many do we need? Morris and Wood should be enough for the back half, whilst JJ is in the leadership group.

Not sure paying Trengove 5-600k for 4 years (or whatever it is) is worth it just for the sake of being a senior head in the rooms.

On field, we would get about the same from Roberts and as I said above I'd prefer we try to develop Collins to see if he's worth keeping or not.

As far as stats for marks, it means little unless they are all intercepts - which they weren't.

He seems like a nice guy and a good clubman but Trengove hasn't been a good selection and we have 3 more years of him.

Not sure where you get those figures from. My understanding is Trengove is on ~$400-450kk per yr for 3 yrs. For a bits and parts big who can go ok in multiple roles, I'm ok with that. Trengove kills Roberts too IMO, perhaps some have forgotten how bad he was given he hasn't been good enough to get a game for nearly a yr.

Far worse list management decisions than Trengove in recent yrs.

[Twodogs]

Bevo all but said going forward Trengove would be the back up ruck option for English/Boyd combo.

I suggest from a list management perspective getting Trengove will allow us to be a little more creative this year.

Do you mean because we've got Trengove's cover in various parts of the ground we can be more wide ranging in the players we trade in and out?

[The Doctor]

Pick 5? think we're a chance to get pick 2 the way we're going.

[divvydan]

Given GC are likely to get a compensation pick for Lynch, finishing below them would be worth quite a lot compared to normal. There's even the possibility that Carlton could get a priority pick but hopefully that'll never happen (although they're bad enough to warrant one). Not a fan of tanking or even playing people right out of position to achieve the same thing but the way we're playing, we just need to carry on the same way and 1-2 clubs will jump ahead of us.

[boydogs]

Every week we pull someone out for the rest of the year. We're tanking hard and not looking like winning

[GVGjr]

Every week we pull someone out for the rest of the year. We're tanking hard and not looking like winning

I'm not sure we are tanking despite our results. There is a chance we might still win 2 or 3 games and it would be hard for all concerned to cop losses to the Saints and Blues. That would put a lot of pressure on Bevo. We are also in with a chance against North

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm not sure we are tanking despite our results. There is a chance we might still win 2 or 3 games and it would be hard for all concerned to cop losses to the Saints and Blues. That would put a lot of pressure on Bevo. We are also in with a chance against North

I agree, as sad as the predicament we are in is, we are not tanking.

I can't see us beating the Saints the way we are going. I see us beating Carlton (although it will be a struggle just like earlier this year) and that's about it. Unfortunately, with that one win, we're probably still more than likely to stay in our current ladder position as i can't see Gold Coast winning 3 (their poor %) more games or Brisbane or St Kilda winning 2 more games.

Here are the last 5 games:

Gold Coast: Carlton, Melbourne, Richmond, Brisbane, Geelong
Brisbane: Geelong, North, Collingwood, Gold Coast, West Coast
St Kilda: GWS, Bulldogs, Essendon, Hawthorn, North

Gold Coast win one possibly two games
Brisbane are probably the best chance to leapfrog us with a win over Gold Coast and possibly North at home
St Kilda, if they beat us, would also have to win one of those last 3 which is a possibility but unlikely

[Mofra]

Do you mean because we've got Trengove's cover in various parts of the ground we can be more wide ranging in the players we trade in and out?
Exactly - sadly, it also means keeping Roughy won't be a high priority because next year we'd be hoping English plays more games than in 2020 he'll be our no 1 ruckman with Boyd giving the chop outs.

Interestingly among the Barrett stuff Bevo mention Boyd being a KPF when he's 25. Seems Tom's development timeline is a long and winding one.

I guess that means we can afford to overlook the King brothers with pick 5? The last few weeks have shown we desperately need class in the middle and forward of the centre.

[Mofra]

Given GC are likely to get a compensation pick for Lynch, finishing below them would be worth quite a lot compared to normal. There's even the possibility that Carlton could get a priority pick but hopefully that'll never happen (although they're bad enough to warrant one). Not a fan of tanking or even playing people right out of position to achieve the same thing but the way we're playing, we just need to carry on the same way and 1-2 clubs will jump ahead of us.
Scuttlebutt suggests Carlton won't apply for a priority pick but they'll be granted one at the end of the first round.

[bornadog]

Scuttlebutt suggests Carlton won't apply for a priority pick but they'll be granted one at the end of the first round.

No club should get a priority pick - EVER.

[Rocket Science]

Port will smack us next week.

The Saints will fancy themselves against us the following week and grind out a win for Richo.

North and a lairising Higgins will knock us over next with a finals berth in the offing to motivate them.

Next up SURELY we'll beat the Blues but go on put your house on it I double dare you.

And we've got the reigning premiers last hahahaaaa kill me now.

Can we rename the thread PICK 3 OR BUST?

[bornadog]

Port will smack us next week.

The Saints will fancy themselves against us the following week and grind out a win for Richo.

North and a lairising Higgins will knock us over next with a finals berth in the offing to motivate them.

Next up SURELY we'll beat the Blues but go on put your house on it I double dare you.

And we've got the reigning premiers last hahahaaaa kill me now.

Can we rename the thread PICK 3 OR BUST?

I think Pick 4 is where we end up.

[Ozza]

Pick 6 is most likely. GCS will get a compensation pick directly after their 1st Pick for Tom Lynch going.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I think Pick 4 is where we end up.

Was rooting so hard for Brisbane to knock off the crows. Would have given us at least pick 4 if they did.

[Mofra]

Pick 6 is most likely. GCS will get a compensation pick directly after their 1st Pick for Tom Lynch going.
I really hope they play hardball and force a trade. Ask for players and picks.

[bulldogtragic]

I really hope they play hardball and force a trade. Ask for players and picks.

If they rate the King boys highly, that's good medium-long term cover for Lynch. And if they're very close brothers in a social sense, they may stay at GCS to keep playing with each other (at the Suns) which would be handy for them to keep their top draftees. So picks 2 & 3 could offer them a different benefit. But I'm hoping with you they force a trade.

[Sedat]

We'd need to lose to Carlton to have any chance of getting pick 3-4 or better. Gold Coast have Carlton and Brisbane but 3 other horrid games that they won't win.

I think we'll be around pick 6, maybe even 7. We'll beat Carlton, and St Kilda is a good chance as well - they are very ordinary. We might even give Port a run this week - they just can't score at the moment. Norf are also starting to flounder as the season is progressing, and it wouldn't surprise if we gave them a run as well.

[boydogs]

I'm not sure we are tanking despite our results. There is a chance we might still win 2 or 3 games and it would be hard for all concerned to cop losses to the Saints and Blues. That would put a lot of pressure on Bevo. We are also in with a chance against North

The medical team is tanking for sure

Dahlhaus out for the year now, don't think we will win another game

[kruder]

Give me wins any day of the week pick 4,5,6 or 7 won't matter we can still take Rozee or O'halloran who will be there plus West Buku Gowers and Lynch and our midfield is back up and running. Loosing to Carlton would be a disaster, winning with the amount of injuries we have would build belief for sure.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Any draft watchers (armchair experts too) out there care to share their thoughts on Connor Rozee?

Kicked 3 goals on the weekend in the SANFL. A mid/half forward who can hit the scoreboard, has great tackling pressure, burst speed and a great leap. Ticks the boxes of the sort of player we are looking for. Not a massive accumulator of the ball and doesn't have much of a contested game. But will be right in the mix at our pick i'm sure.

[bulldogtragic]

All but locked in now. With the weekend results we can't finished lower than where we are, and we'd need an upset over Richmond with some percentage to climb a spot. Not something I'm betting on. So before any free agency compo to GCS, our natural first round selection is Pick 5. Be it 5 or 6 if GCS take compo over a trade, we are looking at acquiring a very talented young player to add to Rhylee West & Buku Khamis.

End Note: We give Carlton pick 23 for last year's trade to help bring in Schache & 16 (Richards), and we get pick 60 from Freo for the Crozier trade.

[bornadog]

All but locked in now. With the weekend results we can't finished lower than where we are, and we'd need an upset over Richmond with some percentage to climb a spot. Not something I'm betting on. So before any free agency compo to GCS, our natural first round selection is Pick 5. Be it 5 or 6 if GCS take compo over a trade, we are looking at acquiring a very talented young player to add to Rhylee West & Buku Khamis.

End Note: We give Carlton pick 23 for last year's trade to help bring in Schache & 16 (Richards), and we get pick 60 from Freo for the Crozier trade.

Is Buku good enough to pick up?

[bulldogtragic]

Is Buku good enough to pick up?

I guess where the bid comes is the question, I think you're asking. He was named back pocket in the All Australian Team this year, Twomey also had him in his U/18 Team of the Year. So he can clearly play. Most phantom drafts and form guides don't have him in the top 25. So after that would be a safe bet, with points in from Freo at pick 60 and the NGA discount, it's basically like using our third rounder in a sense for a 'starting 18' AA kid. Bevo said in his presser last week he had strong interest in he and West, so he's got Bevo's attention which is a good start.

[GVGjr]

Is Buku good enough to pick up?

Yes he is, there is plenty of upside with him.

[GVGjr]

It does look like we hve pick 5, it will be pushed back a bit because of the Lynch compensation but its a strond hand for us after we struck gold with Naughton, Richards and Schache last year.

Great building blocks for us.

[Twodogs]

It does look like we hve pick 5, it will be pushed back a bit because of the Lynch compensation but its a strond hand for us after we struck gold with Naughton, Richards and Schache last year.

Great building blocks for us.

And English the year before.

[bulldogtragic]

I don't think our issue is talent. We've got 'it' in spades. We seemingly need to hire Mrs Kerrigan in the assistant coaching ranks, someone who knows what do with it.

It's Seasoning.

[Twodogs]

I think we need more than a bit of salt on the lamb chops in the way of seasoning though.

More of a bouquet Garni.

[MrMahatma]

A pacey mid.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I think we need more than a bit of salt on the lamb chops in the way of seasoning though.

More of a bouquet Garni.

we need a truckload of 'sizzle' on them chops.

[Dancin' Douggy]

A pacey mid.


Definitely pace and skill. and dangerous around goals.

A pacy skilled small forward/mid.

I think the perfect fit for us is Izak Rankine.
Just have to hope he's there for our pick.

[Ozza]

So when we beat Carlton this week by enough to jump Freo on %, does the thread get changed to pick 6, or pick 7 with Tom Lynch compo?

[bulldogtragic]

So when we beat Carlton this week by enough to jump Freo on %, does the thread get changed to pick 6, or pick 7 with Tom Lynch compo?

Maybe...

But then if Richmond beat us by more than Collingwood beat Freo by in the last round it might need to be changed back to pick 5, or maybe pick 6 if GCS take just the FA compo and not trade for him.

It's a bit too long of a thread title, no? :D

[AshMac]

Definitely pace and skill. and dangerous around goals.

A pacy skilled small forward/mid.

I think the perfect fit for us is Izak Rankine.
Just have to hope he's there for our pick.

izak Rankine would be ideal! Him or Sam walsh are the only two I’m watching tbh for us. Unfortunately both Walsh (100%) and Rankine (85%) will both be gone by pick 6 or 7 if carton get priority pick which leaves us most likely w a king brother as “the best player available” and I really don’t think we need another tall forward ro come in and develop for the next 5 years.

id love to land a silky and quick outside mid or an explosive small forward, it just looks like this is a KPP draft for top 10 talent.

[Axe Man]

izak Rankine would be ideal! Him or Sam walsh are the only two I’m watching tbh for us. Unfortunately both Walsh (100%) and Rankine (85%) will both be gone by pick 6 or 7 if carton get priority pick which leaves us most likely w a king brother as “the best player available” and I really don’t think we need another tall forward ro come in and develop for the next 5 years.

id love to land a silky and quick outside mid or an explosive small forward, it just looks like this is a KPP draft for top 10 talent.

Any priority picks will be at the end of the first round, they won't affect our first pick.

On that note I can't believe that in addition to Carlton and Gold Coast there are rumours of St Kilda potentially getting a priority pick as well.

[bulldogtragic]

Technical question. What comes first at the end of the first round? FA compo or PPs?

That is to say, if we got free agency compo at end of first round, do we get pick 19 or do priorities come first and we get pick 22?

[Axe Man]

Technical question. What comes first at the end of the first round? FA compo or PPs?

That is to say, if we got free agency compo at end of first round, do we get pick 19 or do priorities come first and we get pick 22?

Good question. The last priority pick was awarded to Brisbane in 2016, but there was no free agency compensation awarded at the end of the first round (second round compo was awarded), so that doesn't help.

My guess would be priority picks first, free agency compo second (both according to ladder position). But that's just a guess.

[Mofra]

Definitely pace and skill. and dangerous around goals.

A pacy skilled small forward/mid.

I think the perfect fit for us is Izak Rankine.
Just have to hope he's there for our pick.
Season's not done yet. A late season bolter (a la Bont or Oliver) could shoot up the ranks, Smith is a highly rated 'pure' mid, Hately or RCD as big bodied mids who can play medium forward as well, Rozee and Curtis Taylor are forwards with genuine midfield scope (Taylor has slid as his transition to midfield hasn't quite been as smooth as hoped). Even O'Halloran who isn't posting huge numbers could surge late, best I50/assist player in the draft and is off the charts for leadership/character.

[bulldogtragic]

Good question. The last priority pick was awarded to Brisbane in 2016, but there was no free agency compensation awarded at the end of the first round (second round compo was awarded), so that doesn't help.

My guess would be priority picks first, free agency compo second (both according to ladder position). But that's just a guess.

That’s my guess too. I couldn’t find drafts with both like you said. So if three get priorities, we could get shunted from 19 down to 22 and maybe a pick 24 into 28 if both Dahl & Wally got ok compo. That’s a huge draft points penalty to us for not mismanaging our club for many years. Doesn’t seem fair to both reward them (fine) but also hurt opposition clubs like ours having a draft points focus at the draft (not cool).

[Rocket Science]

It's official, we want someone in the top six.

Bevo 'disappointed' if priority picks impact draft. (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-19/bevo-disappointed-if-priority-picks-impact-draft)

"We'll be pretty disappointed if these compensation picks come in before us in the draft, because our demographic as far as youth versus mature age isn't dissimilar," Beveridge said."

"We feel like our players are in an environment and program where they can really blossom and flourish, but we are where we are on the ladder and we're building again and who knows how far away that is."

"We're anticipating there will be an extra one between us and the first pick because of Lynch," Beveridge said."

"Other than that, I'd hope there's nothing fresh in there between us and Lynch. But that's up to the AFL, it'll all be well considered."

"We saw today, Carlton is a pretty young team and I think they would have been younger and less experienced than us, but they almost beat us."

[Dancin' Douggy]

Damn Fremantle to hell

[Twodogs]

Damn Fremantle to hell

No point worrying about things you can't control.

[Eastdog]

No point worrying about things you can't control.

Yeah it's out of our hands really. We still have a top 10 pick and the draft this year as they are saying is very good. I much rather we end the season strongly which we have. Hopefully we put in a good performance against the Tigers in our final game for 2018.

[Twodogs]

Yeah it's out of our hands really. We still have a top 10 pick and the draft this year as they are saying is very good. I much rather we end the season strongly which we have. Hopefully we put in a good performance against the Tigers in our final game for 2018.

I really want to win this weekend. And if we move the ball quickly and take chances we can. We have a chance of finishing the season with 4 wins in a row and at least go into the preseason on the back of some good form and a big win, momentum is everything in footy and it would be something to take out of a flop of a season.

[westdog54]

Don't get me wrong here, I want to win as well, but realistically, how much 'momentum' can a club carry into a pre-season?

If by some miracle we do win, I can see the conversation being contaminated by discussions about Richmond steady having top spot sewn up and taking it easy.

[Sedat]

If by some miracle we do win, I can see the conversation being contaminated by discussions about Richmond steady having top spot sewn up and taking it easy.
Not sure Richmond will want to relinquish their 20 game winning streak stronghold on the MCG, a week before finals. They will also bring back a bunch of key players to tune up for September.

[Bulldog Joe]

It's official, we want someone in the top six.

Bevo 'disappointed' if priority picks impact draft. (http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-19/bevo-disappointed-if-priority-picks-impact-draft)

"We'll be pretty disappointed if these compensation picks come in before us in the draft, because our demographic as far as youth versus mature age isn't dissimilar," Beveridge said."

"We feel like our players are in an environment and program where they can really blossom and flourish, but we are where we are on the ladder and we're building again and who knows how far away that is."

"We're anticipating there will be an extra one between us and the first pick because of Lynch," Beveridge said."

"Other than that, I'd hope there's nothing fresh in there between us and Lynch. But that's up to the AFL, it'll all be well considered."

"We saw today, Carlton is a pretty young team and I think they would have been younger and less experienced than us, but they almost beat us."

On my casual following of such things, I thought this was the first game all year where we were not younger and less experienced than our opponents.

Checked on Footy Wire

Averages
Carlton Attribute Western Bulldogs
187.9cm Height 187.7cm

85.6kg Weight 85.4kg

24yr 6mth Age 24yr 2mth

85.7 Games 81.0
So they had 4 games more experience on average and 4 months older

Total Players By Games
Carlton Games Western Bulldogs
10 Less than 50 8
7 50 to 99 5
1 100 to 149 7
4 150 or more 2

but we had 9 players over 100 games to their 5,

[Bulldog Joe]

Not sure Richmond will want to relinquish their 20 game winning streak stronghold on the MCG, a week before finals. They will also bring back a bunch of key players to tune up for September.

Do remember breaking someone's 20 game winning streak in August 2000. That was fun.

[bornadog]

On my casual following of such things, I thought this was the first game all year where we were not younger and less experienced than our opponents.

Checked on Footy Wire

Averages
Carlton Attribute Western Bulldogs
187.9cm Height 187.7cm

85.6kg Weight 85.4kg

24yr 6mth Age 24yr 2mth

85.7 Games 81.0
So they had 4 games more experience on average and 4 months older

Total Players By Games
Carlton Games Western Bulldogs
10 Less than 50 8
7 50 to 99 5
1 100 to 149 7
4 150 or more 2

but we had 9 players over 100 games to their 5,

Still younger in overall age and games played.

[Twodogs]

Do remember breaking someone's 20 game winning streak in August 2000. That was fun.


That's a good get BJ. That was such a fun night. There was something afoot that night right from the off it was like the last of the great tribal battles in that they had their tribe there and we bought ours. And they were into one another right from the start, especially when they couldn't shake us off and they started to wonder (and so did we) what was going on? Why didn't we attack when we had the chance? In fact where was our forward line? They seem to have been sucked into the rest of the ground.


Then we ended up protecting a little old lady who had been copping it all night from some particularly classy Essendon supporters and when the siren blew with us on the right side of the ledger half a dozen mates and myself blocked their exit so they had no choice other than to stand and listen while she gave it back with interest. Never EVER upset a little old lady from Footscray, they can turn!

[macca]

Do remember breaking someone's 20 game winning streak in August 2000. That was fun.

We beat the bombers that night and the FLOOD was in full force. Loved every minute of it.

[josie]

Anyone remember johnno being knocked in head (by bomber Johnson or Wallis?) and him lying face down on ground whilst close to an all out melee resulted? If I recall it correctly Johnno was sneakily looking out to one side to see reaction of others incl. umpires. One of my all time fave matches-colonial Stadium was a sellout and the crowd on both sides were naff loud. It was our “grand final” match. Our coach Wallace’s tactics ugly but oh so effective. He was an innovative coach that’s for sure. And that wonderful Chris Grant goal late in last quarter-50 m out and tough angle hard up against boundary fence-what a goal!!

[ratsmac]

Anyone remember johnno being knocked in head (by bomber Johnson or Wallis?) and him lying face down on ground whilst close to an all out melee resulted? If I recall it correctly Johnno was sneakily looking out to one side to see reaction of others incl. umpires. One of my all time fave matches-colonial Stadium was a sellout and the crowd on both sides were naff loud. It was our “grand final” match. Our coach Wallace’s tactics ugly but oh so effective. He was an innovative coach that’s for sure. And that wonderful Chris Grant goal late in last quarter-50 m out and tough angle hard up against boundary fence-what a goal!!

Remember, how could I forget when I watched the replay so many times. Johnno flipping the bird to Barnes after the match was priceless.

[EasternWest]

Remember, how could I forget when I watched the replay so many times. Johnno flipping the bird to Barnes after the match was priceless.

From a safe distance.

[azabob]

From a safe distance.

And pretty much running the opposite direction!

[The Underdog]

So considering that we’ll likely have pick 7 after the Lynch compo and that picks 1-6 are likely to be a combo of Lukosius, the King brothers, Smith, Walsh and Rankine. Is Rozee the next best option from a talent and fit perspective? Assuming also that Blakey and Thomas end up being matched by Sydney and North.

[DOG GOD]

So considering that we’ll likely have pick 7 after the Lynch compo and that picks 1-6 are likely to be a combo of Lukosius, the King brothers, Smith, Walsh and Rankine. Is Rozee the next best option from a talent and fit perspective? Assuming also that Blakey and Thomas end up being matched by Sydney and North.

Rozee is definitely on my radar at our first pick. He would be a great fit for us.

[Go_Dogs]

So considering that we’ll likely have pick 7 after the Lynch compo and that picks 1-6 are likely to be a combo of Lukosius, the King brothers, Smith, Walsh and Rankine. Is Rozee the next best option from a talent and fit perspective? Assuming also that Blakey and Thomas end up being matched by Sydney and North.

At this stage yes, but plenty will change over the next few months.

[bulldogtragic]

Best change this thread to, pick 7 after GCS take compo.

Because that's what we've got.

[DOG GOD]

Best change this thread to, pick 7 after GCS take compo.

Because that's what we've got.

Hmm maybe Coll wanna play rich week 1 instead of weagles in Perth ? ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Hmm maybe Coll wanna play rich week 1 instead of weagles in Perth ? ;)

Man, I'm be up another 1,000 posts on this thread!

[SlimPickens]

Goooooo Freooooo

[DOG GOD]

Just want Freo wanted...an honorable loss ;)

[bulldogtragic]

Jesus, Fyfe's last 10 minutes was tank worthy. That miss was bad. That 36 is shit. Tanks for nothing.

[bornadog]

With Tom Lynch Compo confirmed as Pick 3 we now drop to Pick 7

[DOG GOD]

With Tom Lynch Compo confirmed as Pick 3 we now drop to Pick 7

And Richmond get one of the best young forwards for NOTHING....very annoying

[ratsmac]

And Richmond get one of the best young forwards for NOTHING....very annoying

How is it clubs have to pay for father /son recruits with draft points but an elite player on multi million dollar deals can cost a club nothing but every other club pays 1 draft position? This system is ludicrous

[The Doctor]

And Richmond get one of the best young forwards for NOTHING....very annoying

AFL equalisation policy privileged private school boy style

[comrade]

Richmond gets a gun without coughing up a thing and the rest of clubs lose draft position. Sweet deal, AFL.

[Grantysghost]

How is it clubs have to pay for father /son recruits with draft points but an elite player on multi million dollar deals can cost a club nothing but every other club pays 1 draft position? This system is ludicrous

Not only that it stifles free agency at the Gold Coast as they won't want to lose that compo by bringing players in. Saints must be sitting there thinking what did we do to deserve that. I think first round compo should be removed. Either that or it's the first pick of the club receiving the player. So pick 16 from Tigers. To be honest though I think the compo should be removed altogether.

[FrediKanoute]

Not only that it stifles free agency at the Gold Coast as they won't want to lose that compo by bringing players in. Saints must be sitting there thinking what did we do to deserve that. I think first round compo should be removed. Either that or it's the first pick of the club receiving the player. So pick 16 from Tigers. To be honest though I think the compo should be removed altogether.

I agree. There shouldn't be compo. It will encourage players to a) match a free agent b) clubs to shop around players the year before their contract expires.

[Twodogs]

Yep, take the compo away.

[azabob]

What about when Dahlhaus and Roughead sign elsewhere and the compo helps us get West and Khamis?

[EasternWest]

What about when Dahlhaus and Roughead sign elsewhere and the compo helps us get West and Khamis?

Shhh.

[Topdog]

What about when Dahlhaus and Roughead sign elsewhere and the compo helps us get West and Khamis?

Who cares? It's a rubbish system and should be scrapped regardless of its impact to us in certain years

[azabob]

Who cares? It's a rubbish system and should be scrapped regardless of its impact to us in certain years

You do? I’m on the record saying no compo for losing free agents. I was asking others their thoughts.

[Prince Imperial]

Not about pick 7 but this assessment of Buku Khamis is worth a read:

https://www.afldraftcentral.com.au/player/buku-khamis/

[Topdog]

You do? I’m on the record saying no compo for losing free agents. I was asking others their thoughts.

Whataboutism usually works the other way so i completely misread your intention. Scrap the thing. Team losing a player gets cap space and an extra spot on the list. They already can only leave after 8 years of service. Will just mean that teams are smarter and trade earlier if necessary

[Mofra]

Not about pick 7 but this assessment of Buku Khamis is worth a read:

https://www.afldraftcentral.com.au/player/buku-khamis/
I've been impressed with the games I've seen of him. Seems the new generation of 'hybrid' defender. Might take a bit of time (like Wood) but he can play taller than his height (like Wood) and has an incredible leap (like Wood). Bonus being a local kid.

[choconmientay]

Scrap the thing. Team losing a player gets cap space and an extra spot on the list. They already can only leave after 8 years of service. Will just mean that teams are smarter and trade earlier if necessary

Did you wrote this on theroar ... ?:cool: It's time to give free agent compensation the flick (https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/10/09/its-time-to-give-free-agent-compensation-the-flick/)

[Topdog]

Did you wrote this on theroar ... ?:cool: It's time to give free agent compensation the flick (https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/10/09/its-time-to-give-free-agent-compensation-the-flick/)

No but thankyou for sending through the link. A very worthwhile read

[bornadog]

Who is your choice with Pick 7. Realistically we are most likely looking at Bailey Smith, Rozee or Ben King.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Who is your choice with Pick 7. Realistically we are most likely looking at Bailey Smith, Rozee or Ben King.

I watched Rozee play in the SANFL final series and am a big fan. Will be a star and has already been doing it against adults so you would think he won’t be far off ready to go.

I haven’t seen Smith or King in action so I haven’t got a balanced opinion, but I think Rozee would be a perfect fit. Problem is, I don’t think he will be there. GC will take two SA boys (out of Lukosius, Rozee, and Rankine) and Port will mop the leftover one up with 6.

[stefoid]

Not about pick 7 but this assessment of Buku Khamis is worth a read:

https://www.afldraftcentral.com.au/player/buku-khamis/

Adams schmadams

[divvydan]

Smith is the one I've like the look of most. Was really impressed with what I saw in that metro v country game on the 'G. Did also play hb last year so has some versatility if he's not midfield ready straight away. This assumes his achilles is fine with a bit of rest.

[The Doctor]

Long live the King!

[GVGjr]

I watched Rozee play in the SANFL final series and am a big fan. Will be a star and has already been doing it against adults so you would think he won’t be far off ready to go.

I haven’t seen Smith or King in action so I haven’t got a balanced opinion, but I think Rozee would be a perfect fit. Problem is, I don’t think he will be there. GC will take two SA boys (out of Lukosius, Rozee, and Rankine) and Port will mop the leftover one up with 6.

We will have no problems with King, Rozee, Smith or Hately

It's a strong position to select from.

[ledge]

We will have no problems with King, Rozee, Smith or Hately

It's a strong position to select from.

Hately ?

[SlimPickens]

Hately ?

Ollie Wines clone...absolute Jet! He is my choice at 7 if available

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Unless port trade up to pick 2/3 expect Rozee to be gone. I’m expecting either B King or Smith. Love the look of Smith. There seems to be a clear top 7 so we will get a great kid. I feel like it will be B King left. Not great for us considering we have Schache and Boyd but he’s a great talent nonetheless.

[SlimPickens]

Unless port trade up to pick 2/3 expect Rozee to be gone. I’m expecting either B King or Smith. Love the look of Smith. There seems to be a clear top 7 so we will get a great kid. I feel like it will be B King left. Not great for us considering we have Schache and Boyd but he’s a great talent nonetheless.

Ben can also play as a key defender, a big one at that.

[Dancin' Douggy]

The answer is probably no, but would we consider pick 7 for Burton and pick 15?

[Mofra]

The answer is probably no, but would we consider pick 7 for Burton and pick 15?
It's hard to say without the added risk of a bid at 14 for Rhylee West.

[bornadog]

The answer is probably no, but would we consider pick 7 for Burton and pick 15?

No thanks

[The Bulldogs Bite]

We are desperate for skillful mids who can impact forward - King might be a talent and whilst our key forward stocks aren't great, I don't think he's the best fit for us.

With a skillful mid + West we can at least 'fix' one area of the ground - our midfield - leaving us with 1 hole in defence (KPD) and numerous holes in the forward half.

[lemmon]

Ben can also play as a key defender, a big one at that.

Am I right in saying that Ben is probably more suited to defense and Max is a forward?

Ben and Aaron Naughton lock up full back and centre half back for the next decade. I wouldn't be disappointed if he was there.

[bornadog]

Am I right in saying that Ben is probably more suited to defense and Max is a forward?

Ben and Aaron Naughton lock up full back and centre half back for the next decade. I wouldn't be disappointed if he was there.

I wouldn't be surprised if GC take Ben at 3

[Axe Man]

Spotted this in a Wingard article:


But the Bulldogs are now certain to take their No.7 pick to next month’s national draft, where they fancy Vic Metro MVP Bailey Smith and 202cm Haileybury key forward Max King, who is recovering from a knee reconstruction.

[bornadog]

Spotted this in a Wingard article:

Max King???

[Axe Man]

Max King???

Don't think he will last to pick 7?

[bornadog]

Don't think he will last to pick 7?

I would have thought we would be chasing Ben. I think Max will go closer to 10 plus

[bulldogtragic]

So Redders & Smith retire after questionable treatment of their ACL, and we replace them with another (talent aside). I'd be shitting myself if I had to come to us the way we've handled these issues. Especially sending Clay out just to make sure he'd done it.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Don’t worry. Pretty sure the saints will take Max

[Axe Man]

I would have thought we would be chasing Ben. I think Max will go closer to 10 plus

Max seems to be almost universally rated as the better King, with the obvious ACL concern.

[divvydan]

Obviously Max King is now a much higher risk of doing another ACL but does it run in families? Is Ben King also a higher risk of doing an ACL given his identical twin brother has done one?

[wimberga]

So Redders & Smith retire after questionable treatment of their ACL, and we replace them with another (talent aside). I'd be shitting myself if I had to come to us the way we've handled these issues. Especially sending Clay out just to make sure he'd done it.

Not meaning to derail the thread but in fairness to our medical team and Clay, the article below is quite good:

https://www.playersvoice.com.au/clay-odonohue-smith-dales-armband-sarahs-surname/#aH7fRFe8vK28hghh.97

it includes this excerpt:

The third one was a year and three weeks later. I’d played well in the VFL, come back into the senior side and we’d beaten the Swans in Sydney the week before, in one of the best wins I’ve been part of. We were off to a flyer against St Kilda when I landed awkwardly taking a mark. It felt like a hyper-extension.


I limped off and down in the rooms, they did the test again. They looked up and me and said, ‘Mate, it’s gone’.


Because of the strength in my leg I could still run and change direction. I didn’t know how long I had left in footy – I was coming to the end of a contract and knew this meant another year out. I said, ‘If I can still run around I want to go back out there’. They said I couldn’t do any more damage and left it up to me. I love the game that much, I just wanted to be a part of it.


I went back out and ran around for another 10 minutes. My teammate Mitch Honeychurch came up to me on the half-forward flank and asked if I was alright. I said, ‘Nup, I’ve done my ACL again. It’s gone’. He asked me what the hell I was doing and I said, ‘I can still run!’

Just before half-time, I was going back with the flight for a mark, landed, went to step on my right leg and it just collapsed underneath me. Your muscles can do so much but once they relax, there’s no ligament there to hold it.

[Mofra]

SEN reporting we are in the mix for May, pick 7 on the table.

[Hotdog60]

Are the Suns looking at both Kings?

[Remi Moses]

I’m channeling Trag here , but how about Scully for 7 and a pick coming back ?
Not a late one as Scully is 27, but one in the 20’s ( spitballing here)

[bornadog]

SEN reporting we are in the mix for May, pick 7 on the table.

You have to give up something good to get someone good

[bornadog]

Are the Suns looking at both Kings?

I believe they are.

[DOG GOD]

Surely GC can’t go past Luko with pick 2 or 3 ?

[bornadog]

Surely GC can’t go past Luko with pick 2 or 3 ?

Maybe they take Luko at 2, Ben at 3 and hope to get Max at 7?

[DOG GOD]

Maybe they take Luko at 2, Ben at 3 and hope to get Max at 7?

Very possibly...I can see saints taking smith at 4 if they hold their nerve on draft night and don’t give up that pick to the SA clubs.

[Mofra]

Very possibly...I can see saints taking smith at 4 if they hold their nerve on draft night and don’t give up that pick to the SA clubs.
I can't see Max sliding past the Saints pic. They love him, he's a saints fan and he's doing his knee rehab there.

[DOG GOD]

I can't see Max sliding past the Saints pic. They love him, he's a saints fan and he's doing his knee rehab there.

Might be right, but geez they need some firepower in the midfield. Wouldn’t put the house on hanners and Kent.

[GVGjr]

It's hard to say without the added risk of a bid at 14 for Rhylee West.

That's the downside and risk of doing that sort of swap. We would be better with 3 picks in the late 30's and 40's

[GVGjr]

Don't think he will last to pick 7?

Neither do I, Saints would be all over him but if they pass you never know.

Rozee, Smith, Ben King or Hately could be available and there is some upside for us with all of them

[GVGjr]

Hately ?

You mentioned the other day you support Centrals in SA. You should know him

[kruder]

Neither do I, Saints would be all over him but if they pass you never know.

Rozee, Smith, Ben King or Hately could be available and there is some upside for us with all of them

Do you think Hatley would bring a point of difference to our midfield?

[GVGjr]

Do you think Hatley would bring a point of difference to our midfield?

He's another big lad and would be a nice contrast to Rhylee West. Hately could also be productive when playing forward. We probably need the run of Smith or Rozee more but Hately is a solid player.

I wonder if we have Caldwell in our sights as well

[ledge]

He's another big lad and would be a nice contrast to Rhylee West. Hately could also be productive when playing forward. We probably need the run of Smith or Rozee more but Hately is a solid player.

I wonder if we have Caldwell in our sights as well

We have Lynch , Richards and JJ as runners in attack who can all kick goals , Hately is also good going forward, not sure if West is a goal kicker in that vein, so I would like to add Hately.

[Dancin' Douggy]

I know May is great, but do we really want to give up our golden ticket for him?
He's not exactly what we need.

I know the narrative sounds good. We finally land a 'big fish'.

But............. is it just a knee jerk reaction, just because he's there?

Is it a strategically sound move?

Would hate to go the draft with no high picks.

I was happy to keep pick 7 when Chad chose the pisspoo because pick 7 is still a major asset.
I would have given it up for Chad because he totally fitted the profile we needed. Either way we win.

Is May what we need?
Or is a young gun cleanskin midfielder what we need?

I'm leaning towards keeping the pick

[Webby]

I know May is great, but do we really want to give up our golden ticket for him?
He's not exactly what we need.

I know the narrative sounds good. We finally land a 'big fish'.

But............. is it just a knee jerk reaction, just because he's there?

Is it a strategically sound move?

Would hate to go the draft with no high picks.

I was happy to keep pick 7 when Chad chose the pisspoo because pick 7 is still a major asset.
I would have given it up for Chad because he totally fitted the profile we needed. Either way we win.

Is May what we need?
Or is a young gun cleanskin midfielder what we need?

I'm leaning towards keeping the pick

Naughton goes forward.kid will make Tom McDonald look a hack forward.

[Greystache]

I know May is great, but do we really want to give up our golden ticket for him?
He's not exactly what we need.

I know the narrative sounds good. We finally land a 'big fish'.

But............. is it just a knee jerk reaction, just because he's there?

Is it a strategically sound move?

Would hate to go the draft with no high picks.

I was happy to keep pick 7 when Chad chose the pisspoo because pick 7 is still a major asset.
I would have given it up for Chad because he totally fitted the profile we needed. Either way we win.

Is May what we need?
Or is a young gun cleanskin midfielder what we need?

I'm leaning towards keeping the pick

I understand what you're saying but the cleanskin is often massively overvalued. Would you trade May for Jarrad Grant, Ray, Walsh,or Williams who were all top 6 picks? I would in a heartbeat. A known quantity in an area of need is preferable to a gamble on a kid as far as I'm concerned. We have a young list with a lot of talent, we're screaming out for mature quality players. We should be throwing the sink a mature talent.

[bulldogtragic]

I understand what you're saying but the cleanskin is often massively overvalued. Would you trade May for Jarrad Grant, Ray, Walsh,or Williams who were all top 6 picks? I would in a heartbeat. A known quantity in an area of need is preferable to a gamble on a kid as far as I'm concerned. We have a young list with a lot of talent, we're screaming out for mature quality players. We should be throwing the sink a mature talent.

No *!*!*!*!ing way... Would I ever trade anyone for Jarrad Grant. Ever. The hair, the look away handball, the stingray injury, that one good season. People are so quick to forget the good times, but I never thought you, Rick Astley, would be one to give him up.

[Happy Days]

No *!*!*!*!ing way... Would I ever trade anyone for Jarrad Grant. Ever. The hair, the look away handball, the stingray injury, that one good season. People are so quick to forget the good times, but I never thought you, Rick Astley, would be one to give him up.

Jarrad Grant ended Josh Bootsma's career, not any dick pics sent over Snapchat, this is indisputable.

[Go_Dogs]

There will still be plenty of movement with draft picks, I expect we'll see Adelaide and Port try to work deals with Gold Coast and Saints, who depending on their draft interests, may see some benefit in trading down, and securing additional first round picks.

It seems we are open to trading a future first round pick too (based on the Wingard offer rumours) but it's hard to see how we can make it work to our benefit this year. We may have some other options available though.

If Adams to Brisbane trade must get done, I wonder whether we can use it to get some draft points this year and build a strong position for next year which will help us land a big fish via trade.

I'm no BT, but could we trade Adams and 27 to Brisbane for a future second round selection, along with 41 and 44 this year?

We'd then end up with something like:-

Picks 7, 41, 44, 45, 63, 64.

That means we have 1,300 ish draft points which should be enough to net West and Khamis.

Could we then look at a deal with Port to trade 7 and 2 x future second round picks (Brisbane's and ours) for pick 10 and a future first round selection.

We move back the order slightly, but guarantee ourselves 2 first round picks to assist with landing a big fish next year, while Port get 2 picks before the Crows (and maybe more leverage to trade up again) and stockpile second round selections for their multiple F/S needs next year.

That would leave us with pick 10 and West/Khamis points. I know there's been a lot of speculation about the top 8 players, but we can get a very good player at pick 10. If we can build a war chest to throw at a Josh Kelly deal given all the big Vic clubs are surely out of the running with salary issues after all the big recruits over the past few seasons, it might be the better play to be a genuine premiership threat in 2020.

[Ghost Dog]

I understand what you're saying but the cleanskin is often massively overvalued. Would you trade May for Jarrad Grant, Ray, Walsh,or Williams who were all top 6 picks? I would in a heartbeat. A known quantity in an area of need is preferable to a gamble on a kid as far as I'm concerned. We have a young list with a lot of talent, we're screaming out for mature quality players. We should be throwing the sink a mature talent.

Don't forget the kicking action. And the one finger in the air goal celebrations, but facial expression the same every time, all game long.

[Mofra]

I understand what you're saying but the cleanskin is often massively overvalued. Would you trade May for Jarrad Grant, Ray, Walsh,or Williams who were all top 6 picks? I would in a heartbeat. A known quantity in an area of need is preferable to a gamble on a kid as far as I'm concerned. We have a young list with a lot of talent, we're screaming out for mature quality players. We should be throwing the sink a mature talent.
Different era , recruiting has come a long way since that time.

Our last bunch first round picks are Stringer, Macrae, English, Richards, Naughton, Bontempelli with Boyd and Schache added to the list.

How many from that list would we swap for May? Stringer and Boyd post GF, that's all for me.

[Axe Man]

Apparently the Eagles and Cats tried to use our pick 7 as part of a Tim Kelly trade:


It's understood the Eagles, together with Geelong, inquired at one stage about the Western Bulldogs' pick No.7, with the Cats then prepared to send their pick No.12 to the Dogs as part of an elaborate pick swap.

However, the Bulldogs soon ruled out any such deal and, barring an exceptional offer, will take pick No.7 to the NAB AFL Draft

[bulldogtragic]

Apparently the Eagles and Cats tried to use our pick 7 as part of a Tim Kelly trade:

Good, that sounds like a shithouse 'offer'.

[GVGjr]

Apparently the Eagles and Cats tried to use our pick 7 as part of a Tim Kelly trade:

I'd have liked to have seen the offer even if it was complicated

There is certainly a targeted player or two in the draft we have our focus on

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'd have liked to have seen the offer even if it was complicated

There is certainly a targeted player or two in the draft we have our focus on

Doesn't sound like we were prepared to give up 7 for Wingard either. We must really love someone in this draft that we are confident of landing.

[GVGjr]

Doesn't sound like we were prepared to give up 7 for Wingard either. We must really love someone in this draft that we are confident of landing.

Would an offer of 12 from Geelong and pick 20 from West Coast with us throwing pick 45 back be too far off the mark for pick 7 unless we have couple of players at 7 we really want?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Would an offer of 12 from Geelong and pick 20 from West Coast with us throwing pick 45 back be too far off the mark for pick 7 unless we have couple of players at 7 we really want?

I don't like it. From all reports, the top 7 of this draft (8 with Blakey) is a fair way ahead of the next group. Plus unless we can offload 20 for an established player, it's likely to be used on West.

[EasternWest]

Different era , recruiting has come a long way since that time.

Our last bunch first round picks are Stringer, Macrae, English, Richards, Naughton, Bontempelli with Boyd and Schache added to the list.

How many from that list would we swap for May? Stringer and Boyd post GF, that's all for me.

I'd have to think very hard about trading Boyd too. I can't put my finger on why, I just feel bullish about him.

[Mofra]

I'd have to think very hard about trading Boyd too. I can't put my finger on why, I just feel bullish about him.
He looks a classic late bloomer. I'm thinking he'll be excellent in 2-3 years time but we carry the can for his development years and it's players like that which make you understand the Hawthorn route of trading mature talls in.

[Dancin' Douggy]

So. Pick 7.
I'm hoping both the King brothers are gone by the time our pick comes up, so the decision is out of our hands.
Then, Smith or Rozee will probably be available at pick 7.

I'm so glad we're going into this draft with this pick.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

I have been a voice for boosting our midfield/forward options but I am surprised posters are still dismissing the King brothers, particularly after the trade period has ended.

We have 2 key forwards on our list (Boyd, Schache) and one of them plays ruck.

We have 2 young KPDs (Naughton, Cordy) and 1 unknown (Young). Morris has one year left, Roberts is depth at best - both likely gone at the end of 2019. You could also argue Cordy is actually a third tall.

Our midfield group is young, we're adding West and likely another 1-2 F/S options who can rotate through there over the next 1-2 years. BT would be more knowledgeable on our upcoming F/S options but I am sure a couple are mids?

I would almost argue that one of the King brothers is a priority.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

No way Rozee gets to our pick.

It's simply B King or B Smith.

I'd prefer B Smith any day of the week.

[GVGjr]

I have been a voice for boosting our midfield/forward options but I am surprised posters are still dismissing the King brothers, particularly after the trade period has ended.

We have 2 key forwards on our list (Boyd, Schache) and one of them plays ruck.

We have 2 young KPDs (Naughton, Cordy) and 1 unknown (Young). Morris has one year left, Roberts is depth at best - both likely gone at the end of 2019. You could also argue Cordy is actually a third tall.

Our midfield group is young, we're adding West and likely another 1-2 F/S options who can rotate through there over the next 1-2 years. BT would be more knowledgeable on our upcoming F/S options but I am sure a couple are mids?

I would almost argue that one of the King brothers is a priority.

I've been trying to defend Ben King because for most years we have been crying out for that athletic and versatile tall.
I get we are a bit light on for genuine midfielders and we have an abundance of flanker types that play in the middle but we just can't be upset if we added Ben King.
Smith, Hately, Caldwell or King are probably all in the mix. Whoever we feel is the best will be okay with me.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Would anyone entertain trading next years first and pick 27 for Gold Coasts pick 6 so that we could land both King and Smith? Or am i looking through rose coloured glasses?

[hujsh]

B King and his ability to play either end could work out well for us. The idea of knowing he can cover for whatever area of the ground players haven't developed in or where we have injuries or matchups haven't worked out is quite appealing. Also fits into Bevo's versatility mantra.

[lemmon]

I'd be very happy with King or Smith - leaning more towards Smith because I think you're getting a rolled-gold jet versus a slightly more risky selection.

In saying that, I think our need for talls at either end just outstrips our needs for a mid, so I'm not complaining about an athletic 200cm kid who plays forward or back and is great below his knees.

[GVGjr]

Would anyone entertain trading next years first and pick 27 for Gold Coasts pick 6 so that we could land both King and Smith? Or am i looking through rose coloured glasses?

I don't think the Suns would do it but it's worth considering.
We might have some challenges getting West with pick 32 and 45 though but hey that would be 3 very solid additions.

[bulldogtragic]

I have been a voice for boosting our midfield/forward options but I am surprised posters are still dismissing the King brothers, particularly after the trade period has ended.

We have 2 key forwards on our list (Boyd, Schache) and one of them plays ruck.

We have 2 young KPDs (Naughton, Cordy) and 1 unknown (Young). Morris has one year left, Roberts is depth at best - both likely gone at the end of 2019. You could also argue Cordy is actually a third tall.

Our midfield group is young, we're adding West and likely another 1-2 F/S options who can rotate through there over the next 1-2 years. BT would be more knowledgeable on our upcoming F/S options but I am sure a couple are mids?

I would almost argue that one of the King brothers is a priority.

They’re mids. I think most of our NGAs for a while are primarily mids also. So if the boys go fairly high, we may not get a look at top 10 KPP for a while. Unless we finish bottom 5 again.

I’ve been reading that GCS want top picks next year. If both King boys are there at 6 & 7, I wonder if we’d like the set in a deal with GCS. It’s be hopefully a good retention strategy, fill out our KPP needs and then focus on mids the next couple of years.

[GVGjr]

This is something I heard to help us have a stronger position at the draft table. It all depends on how badly the Crows want to get early selections and it's reliant on not needing to go into deficit next year with getting West

We trade our prized pick 7 and pick 45 to the Crows for their pick 13 and 21. From a points perspective we give up 1,991 points for their 2,090 points. We might be able to squeeze them for their pick 16 but it's doubtful because they might be able to do something later with the Saints or Suns.

At the draft we pick the best player at pick 13 and at pick 21 we either take match a bid for West or take the next best player
We match a bid for West at pick 27 which will probably push pick 32 back a couple of spots but essentially we are likely to get 2 picks before West and still have enough points to cover Khamis

Our picks would be 13, 21, 27, 32 (moving to 35) and 63. Essentially it's 2 live picks plus West and Khamis plus a speculative late selection.

It won't be popular but might be worth considering. It's a question about adding depth or a potential star player. That isn't always a clear position but I think that is what the above is challenging.

[bulldogtragic]

This is something I heard to help us have a stronger position at the draft table. It all depends on how badly the Crows want to get early selections and it's reliant on not needing to go into deficit next year with getting West

We trade our prized pick 7 and pick 45 to the Crows for their pick 13 and 21. From a points perspective we give up 1,991 points for their 2,090 points. We might be able to squeeze them for their pick 16 but it's doubtful because they might be able to do something later with the Saints or Suns.

At the draft we pick the best player at pick 13 and at pick 21 we either take match a bid for West or take the next best player
We match a bid for West at pick 27 which will probably push pick 32 back a couple of spots but essentially we are likely to get 2 picks before West and still have enough points to cover Khamis

Our picks would be 13, 21, 27, 32 (moving to 35) and 63. Essentially it's 2 live picks plus West and Khamis plus a speculative late selection.

It won't be popular but might be worth considering. It's a question about adding depth or a potential star player. That isn't always a clear position but I think that is what the above is challenging.

I'm not a fan of the above at all. 13 & 16 would make me look a bit harder, but probably pass. But since pick 7 isn't in draft point calculation for West, it's a moot point for an extra 100 points that are not applicable in our circumstances. At this point we only are looking at four draftees, so we'd have to use 32 on Khamis whether he was bid on before it or not.

What merits do you see in it G?

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I’ve had a bit of a think over the whole B King vs B Smith thing.

It basically comes down to risk for me. I see King as a much larger risk. If it pays off, we have that generational talent. But if he just becomes another one of those tall serviceable types, I’ll be pretty annoyed. I think with Smith we know what we’re getting. A good solid 200 gamer who will take the game on and can kick a goal or two. King could be anything.

Where does everyone sit with their risk profiles?

[GVGjr]

I'm not a fan of the above at all. 13 & 16 would make me look a bit harder, but probably pass. But since pick 7 isn't in draft point calculation for West, it's a moot point for an extra 100 points that are not applicable in our circumstances. At this point we only are looking at four draftees, so we'd have to use 32 on Khamis whether he was bid on before it or not.

What merits do you see in it G?

Only that it helps manage any bids for West. I'm not sold either way

In the above scenario, we should get 2 very good players, match the bids for West and Khamis and we still might have room for another pick without having to go into deficit next year

As it stands if a pick comes for West at say #18 our position deteriorates quickly but we will come away with a very good player, West and Khamis and just a latish pick.

The other scenario might be that we keep the picks we have and happily go into deficit next year by adding West from a 2019 pick.
That would be a strong hand by having 7, 27, 32, West and matching something for Khamis

[bulldogtragic]

Only that it helps manage any bids for West. I'm not sold either way

In the above scenario, we should get 2 very good players, match the bids for West and Khamis and we still might have room for another pick without having to go into deficit next year

As it stands if a pick comes for West at say #18 our position deteriorates quickly but we will come away with a very good player, West and Khamis and just a latish pick.

The other scenario might be that we keep the picks we have and happily go into deficit next year by adding West from a 2019 pick.
That would be a strong hand by having 7, 27, 32, West and matching something for Khamis

I think we seem in a pretty good position right now, provided West goes 18-21.

7 is live
27 is West
32 is live (might drop to 35)
45 & 63 is Khamis (assuming he comes after 32-35)

That's our four spots filled. All likely from the first & second rounds. That's a good draft night in my eyes. Any change would want to have a clear upside for me above and beyond above.

[SlimPickens]

Must admit i'm having Scotty Clayton skinny flanker flashbacks when it comes to Rozee, haven't watched him play since the champs so i hope i'm wrong but i do have concerns.

[bornadog]

Must admit i'm having Scotty Clayton skinny flanker flashbacks when it comes to Rozee, haven't watched him play since the champs so i hope i'm wrong but i do have concerns.
I was also surprised how thin he was

[Mofra]

Only that it helps manage any bids for West. I'm not sold either way

In the above scenario, we should get 2 very good players, match the bids for West and Khamis and we still might have room for another pick without having to go into deficit next year
I don't see west slipping past 20. Jason McCartney would know how much we rate him and GWS hold pick 19 which is a few spots after many draft watchers rate him.

I trade up to get to 13 & 16 but even then 16 is a risk.

[bornadog]

Don’t touch 7, use it on a gun player, hopefully Smith or Hately

[GVGjr]

Must admit i'm having Scotty Clayton skinny flanker flashbacks when it comes to Rozee, haven't watched him play since the champs so i hope i'm wrong but i do have concerns.

At the combine he measured in at 184cm tall and 74kg, put just 4 or 5kg on him and he will be fine in fact he would be nearly the same height and weight as Ed Richards.

I don't think too many teams would be concerned about his weight. Mentioning as a Clayton pick is more concerning :)

[The Bulldogs Bite]

If it came down to a King, which would we prefer?

Max looks a right footed Daniher. Seems as though he's limited to being key forward but I would suspect he'll take turns in the ruck. The ACL is always a concern.

Ben's versatility is impressive but would you rather a very good versatile player or a standout one position player?

Based on very little knowledge, Max appeals more for mine.

[GVGjr]

I don't see west slipping past 20. Jason McCartney would know how much we rate him and GWS hold pick 19 which is a few spots after many draft watchers rate him.

I trade up to get to 13 & 16 but even then 16 is a risk.

That's why I think 13 and 21 might work better for both clubs. Perhaps we could get a bonus sweetener as well

As it stands if GWS bid for West at 19# then pick 27 nearly covers it after the discount with pick 32 pushed back by a spot or two.
If he goes at #16 though pick 32 moved to about 38 or 39 and we might then have to deal with a Khamis bid.
Another level of risk.

Is pick 7, West and Khamis going to be enough for us?

Could we keep 7 and just go into deficit for West and use 27, 32 and 45 for players including Khamis?

[bornadog]

If it came down to a King, which would we prefer?

Max looks a right footed Daniher. Seems as though he's limited to being key forward but I would suspect he'll take turns in the ruck. The ACL is always a concern.

Ben's versatility is impressive but would you rather a very good versatile player or a standout one position player?

Based on very little knowledge, Max appeals more for mine.

the ACL is a worry for mine

[bulldogtragic]

I don't see west slipping past 20. Jason McCartney would know how much we rate him and GWS hold pick 19 which is a few spots after many draft watchers rate him.

I trade up to get to 13 & 16 but even then 16 is a risk.

Yep. I don't see the upside in trading off pick 7. We have enough points to add West & Khamis to Pick 7 meaning 3 of our 4 picks are 'starting 18' All Australians. For our fourth and last selection, either we have a pick in the 30's for best available or a pick around the 60's for a VFL player we are interested in or someone whose slipped down. I think this is perfectly fine an outcome for me, either way. I don't see the reason to do it. Trading potential elite talent at pick 7 in a rebuild, for picks essentially picks 13 and (use of) 27 doesn't do it for me. I'd rather rebuild with pick 7 in the squad than 13 & 27.

[GVGjr]

Yep. I don't see the upside in trading off pick 7. We have enough points to add West & Khamis to Pick 7 meaning 3 of our 4 picks are 'starting 18' All Australians. For our fourth and last selection, either we have a pick in the 30's for best available or a pick around the 60's for a VFL player we are interested in or someone whose slipped down. I think this is perfectly fine an outcome for me, either way. I don't see the reason to do it. Trading potential elite talent at pick 7 in a rebuild, for picks essentially picks 13 and (use of) 27 doesn't do it for me. I'd rather rebuild with pick 7 in the squad than 13 & 27.

So are we rebuilding because the strong argument for Wingard was that we had enough emerging talent?

I think we can all agree that Pick 7 is going to be awesome for us. West should be as well but it could all drop off a bit after that if someone bids at pick 16# or so for West.

[Greystache]

Must admit i'm having Scotty Clayton skinny flanker flashbacks when it comes to Rozee, haven't watched him play since the champs so i hope i'm wrong but i do have concerns.

Granted I've only seen limited highlights of him but he looks a short and sideways first option type player to me. I don't get the excitement. He must have done some great attacking work that didn't get captured on film.

[bulldogtragic]

So are we rebuilding because the strong argument for Wingard was that we had enough emerging talent?

I think we can all agree that Pick 7 is going to be awesome for us. West should be as well but it could all drop off a bit after that if someone bids at pick 16# or so for West.



We are rebuilding because a lot of mature players left, and group is still very young and not close to hitting maturity. I wanted Wingard because he was a good player, not whether we were rebuilding or contending. The argument is really pick 7 or picks 13 & (use of) 27. That's a no brainer for me. No.

Picks 27, 32, 45 & 63 = 1,746 points

West at 16 is 1067 less 20%
Khamis at 35 is 522 less 20%
--------
1,589 (less 20% - 1,276)

We've got the points to do it this year without being close to mucking about in next year's draft. My bet is we land 7, West, Khamis and pick 35-38. Three starting 18 All Australians and another second rounder. That to me is already a very, very good story, not to mention the romance of a West back in the playing group. I don't see the need to go into deficit when we are holding an already strong draft hand. I wouldn't go into deficit and I wouldn't trade 7. Public relations is not a good enough reason to go into deficit in a draft with two potential father sons. And I think the PR will be just fine in the communications department do it right.

[hujsh]

If we get 7, something in the teens, West and Khamis, going into deficit if needed, then I'm much happier than if we get 7, West, Khamis and someone at 32 or higher (probably in the 40s or 60s).

Or trade 27 for a future 2nd rounder. If we're picking someone late may as well bank the valuable pick for next year. How about Collingwoods future 2nd (assuming they have it or someone elses) and one or two of those picks in the 50s for 27? Would people do that deal? Gambling a little that Collingwood don't do as well next year but if we have points coming in this year and set up something decent for next year I don't mind it.

Or package 27 and our future 2nd for someone's first this year. Kind of keen to experiment a bit and see what we can do since 27 really isn't doing us much favours.

[GVGjr]

There is a couple of parts of this I don't get
1) Our offer for Wingard was reported as being next years pick so I'm not sure why we would be more precious about that pick now
2) If we are rebuilding then is 2 genuine players plus the emerging Khamis enough to say that we are rebuilding?

It's a good draft and while I'm still to be convinced which approach works best I tend to think we should go hard at it.

[bulldogtragic]

There is a couple of parts of this I don't get
1) Our offer for Wingard was reported as being next years pick so I'm not sure why we would be more precious about that pick now
2) If we are rebuilding then is 2 genuine players plus the emerging Khamis enough to say that we are rebuilding?

It's a good draft and while I'm still to be convinced which approach works best I tend to think we should go hard at it.

In short, I have no idea what the club is thinking. We should listen to offers, but trading 7 as described or running deficits does not attract me in the slightest. As I posted yesterday, if we pay the benefit of the doubt, maybe Power goes to the recruiters and says 'I've got 32 on the table for Adams. What do you think'. They say, 'that could work. We think Rhylee takes up 27 or a bit more. Then we've got 32-35. We estimate Buku is going at 40. So if you take 32, we get use 7 on ****, 27 on Rhylee, 32 on maybe ***** and 45 & 63 on Khamis as our 4 selections at the draft'.

If a conversation like that happened, or if that's what they believe is 80% likely to happen, then I think that's a great strategy. The problems comes if either boy shoots up the order, but if the club really believe West is in the 18-21 range and Khamis 38+ range, then they believe 32-35 is in play as a live pick around the others. I'm happy enough with that. I think that's a great outcome from the draft. I assume if the recruiters said otherwise, we would've done a draft points trade to cover ourselves like 27 for 41 & 44 from Brisbane. Which we could've done, but didn't. The absence of action to me points towards us thinking that 32-35 pick will land between the two boys.

[Twodogs]

If it came down to a King, which would we prefer?

Max looks a right footed Daniher. Seems as though he's limited to being key forward but I would suspect he'll take turns in the ruck. The ACL is always a concern.

Ben's versatility is impressive but would you rather a very good versatile player or a standout one position player?

Based on very little knowledge, Max appeals more for mine.

The standout one position player every day I reckon.


There is a couple of parts of this I don't get
1) Our offer for Wingard was reported as being next years pick so I'm not sure why we would be more precious about that pick now
2) If we are rebuilding then is 2 genuine players plus the emerging Khamis enough to say that we are rebuilding?

It's a good draft and while I'm still to be convinced which approach works best I tend to think we should go hard at it.

I don't think we really did want Wingard so we offered up a Hobson's choice for him. I don't know why but maybe we were spooked by the reports about his ratbagism?

[bulldogtragic]

ESPN's Chris Doerre (aka Knightmare) last week as us taking this guy at 7 (8th as Blakey to Sydney above). Passing on Rozee at the next pick.

8. Xavier Duursma (VIC)

Best position: Outside/inside midfield
Height, weight: 185cm, 71kg
Recruited from: Gippsland Power

Projected draft range: 10-25
Similar to: Brendon Goddard

Rationale: Re-establishes himself inside the top 20 due to the strength of his finals series and the consistent quality of his play. A rare midfielder who plays inside and outside to a high standard.

September Ranking: not ranked

Strengths:

Versatility to play through midfield (inside or outside roles) or as a line breaking defender
Acceleration
Line-breaker
Endurance
High work rate
Agility
Competitiveness
Reliable kick
Clean ground ball-winner
Contested ball-winning
Distribution by hand
Tackling Stoppage work
Leadership
Overhead marking
Intercept marking

Weaknesses:

Light bodied
Stoppage work
Consistency




P.S.

12. Rhylee West (VIC - Western Bulldogs father-son)

Best position: Inside midfield
Height, weight: 180cm, 80kg
Recruited from: Calder Cannons

Projected draft range: 10-30
Plays like: Nathan Jones
Rationale: Ball-winning midfielder with production on the board. A star for Vic Metro during the Under-18 Championships. Drops as others rise.

September Ranking: 10

Strengths:

Strong body
Contested ball-winning
Tackling
Composure with ball in hand
Vision
Reliable ball user
Midfielder who can push forward
Strength through hips to stand up through tackles
Acceleration
Agility
Overhead marking
One-on-one marking

Weaknesses:

Height
X-factor

[GVGjr]

Duursma is a fine player but his kicking is just a bit off the mark for mine. He's more of a defender than midfielder but that won't stop him developing into a midfielder.

Regarding West, how is height a weakness for a midfielder?