If you were Peter Gordon, who would you move on first in a post season review?

[bulldogtragic]

Before Friday night, many have taken a keen interest in whether certain people are doing their jobs properly. I think PG and Bains will move on a few people from a few different roles. My issue has been with the communications department, but if this is true this is my nomination:

"Although Matt (Suckling) ticked all of our boxes last week in the return from his Achilles injury, I'm afraid that pre-game he had a flare up of his symptoms and we were required to withdraw him from the game," medical services manager Chris Bell told westernbulldogs.com.au"

"We're going to be really cautious with our approach with Suckers and make sure we get some continuity in his training and look for him to return in the next three to four weeks.”

So Bell and his team cleared him to keep training, to prepare to play and do the warm up - up until 9 minutes to go - because he's fine... Now he's out for about month!! This is a crazy situation. Suckling is playing his best and most consistent year, so we've robbed the team. Matt is out of contract, and now will be relying on a lot of good faith from Sam Power to reward him despite not being able to get on the park. So he's been robbed potentially. I'm absolutely filthy for Suckers and his ability to earn every dollar in this next contract after a good year. Seriously filthy.

This is compounded by repeat injuries to the same players, and a litany of problems since he's been with us. I'm sure he's a great bloke and means well, but Suckling being fine to missing a month now is not something the best person for the job displays. If we made mistake after mistake, and then made one which hurt our employer and a colleague, I'd expect to be on seek.com.au already.

[AndrewP6]

Maybe it was just an unfortunate aggravation of the injury. Maybe on tests it appeared fine (ticked the boxes, as they have said) and it just... happened. Some players are just injury prone, and the Achilles would be under a lot of stress in AFL. If anything, they seem over cautious bringing people back.

[bulldogtragic]

I've not done an Achilles before, specifically, but having my time with sports medico's and physios I can't believe that's the event. Although the personnel might be different, we sent Clay Smith on with an ACL, we've seen the same guys get the same repeat injuries. I don't see it in isolation. If you look at our injuries, our high ACLs, soft tissue injuries and clearing players to have them injure themselves very quickly (or in a warm up 9 minutes before the game), then I can't write this off as a once off. And I hope Matty Suckling isn't deprived on what was shaping as a better contract. The players must have complete faith in Bell, and to me at least, it looks like Suckling has had his trust burned.

[boydogs]

If anything, they seem over cautious bringing people back.

Absolutely. And they've just turned that up to 11 now we are no chance of finals

[westdog54]

Maybe it was just an unfortunate aggravation of the injury. Maybe on tests it appeared fine (ticked the boxes, as they have said) and it just... happened. Some players are just injury prone, and the Achilles would be under a lot of stress in AFL. If anything, they seem over cautious bringing people back.

With the utmost respect Andrew, I just can't buy that.

As BT rightly said, he's gone from fit to play to out for another month within the space of a warm-up.

Yes, many of our injuries have been put down to bad luck, and yes, injuries happen. But our management of these injuries is just coming up short far too often to be written off as bad luck.

Bell needs to be under massive, massive scrutiny. And it shouldn't wait for the off season. It needs to happen right now.

[bulldogtragic]

Yep, Suckers was training mid week and in fact playing in 9 minutes time, that was the view point of Bell at the time. By all accounts nothing manifestly disasterous occurred in the light warm up. Nothing to account for now, 5 missed games. Now Bell says Suckers is 40,000 minutes off playing again. First call on Friday night was 9 minutes to play, now the current Monday call is up to 40,000 minutes to play.

Missed it by that much...

Either he was way wrong in the first place, or has little confidence in his/their management and diagnosis of Suckers. In any event, I can't see how a professional elite sporting environment can continue to make these injury management blunders. What the real issue might become is that if the players don't think they can stay injury free at the club, then maybe for their careers and pay packets they begin to consider leaving for clubs that don't have our ingrained problems. If I was Suckers, and lost 4-5 games of career best footy while negotiating my last big contract, I'd be asking my manager to bring this up to Sam Power. Players need to have complete faith in the advice they're getting (ie Clay Smith going back on). It simply cannot continue along at this poor level if there's even a hint player retention or player satisfaction with the club is being detrimentally affected. I'd bet the house it is. So let's pray for change as soon as possible because we will be a better team for it.

[ledge]

I wonder about the western oval surface causing the problems.
Is it prepared to be the same state as the Etihad surface? Eg hardness and grass length.

[dog town]

Achilles injuries often just flare up like that. Once you have it then unfortunately it’s a constant battle to manage it. If he had been getting through training I don’t see how they could have known it would suddenly come back in the warm up.

[AndrewP6]

With the utmost respect Andrew, I just can't buy that.

As BT rightly said, he's gone from fit to play to out for another month within the space of a warm-up.

Yes, many of our injuries have been put down to bad luck, and yes, injuries happen. But our management of these injuries is just coming up short far too often to be written off as bad luck.

Bell needs to be under massive, massive scrutiny. And it shouldn't wait for the off season. It needs to happen right now.

Fair enough, we can agree to disagree. Suckling has had Achilles issues for a while now, it's not some new thing. Plenty of teams have significant injury lists.

[Axe Man]

Achilles injuries often just flare up like that. Once you have it then unfortunately it’s a constant battle to manage it. If he had been getting through training I don’t see how they could have known it would suddenly come back in the warm up.

Absolutely correct. I've had achilles tendinitis for years. It's been pretty good for a long time now and all of a sudden last week, for no particular reason, I get up out of bed and I'm limping around.

I'm not sure how happy I would be if people judged my employment performance on a couple of small pieces of information, without all the facts and with no understanding of my profession. I'm all for a review of the medical department, no different to any other department, but I can not reasonably assess their performance myself as a laymen from the outside with no idea of the specifics.

[Bulldog4life]

Dale Morris spoke very highly of our doctors and medical team on the channel 7 footy show.

[bornadog]

Absolutely correct. I've had achilles tendinitis for years. It's been pretty good for a long time now and all of a sudden last week, for no particular reason, I get up out of bed and I'm limping around.

I'm not sure how happy I would be if people judged my employment performance on a couple of small pieces of information, without all the facts and with no understanding of my profession. I'm all for a review of the medical department, no different to any other department, but I can not reasonably assess their performance myself as a laymen from the outside with no idea of the specifics.

I had a minor issue with my Achilles. I don't do heavy exercise, I walk about an hour every morning. Sometimes it would give me no problems, then out of the blew it would hurt.

We can't comment on something we don't know the full detail of. Yes we have the right to question why this has happened but to start calling for heads in the medical team is a bit far fetched.

[Mofra]

Maybe it was just an unfortunate aggravation of the injury. Maybe on tests it appeared fine (ticked the boxes, as they have said) and it just... happened. Some players are just injury prone, and the Achilles would be under a lot of stress in AFL. If anything, they seem over cautious bringing people back.
If he was cleared to play and a warm-up aggravated it to the point it needs 3-4 weeks rest, there is a serious issue with the medical clearance protocols.

We have a huge injury list and evidence we've mismanaged played injury, it absolutely has to be a focus for review during the off-season.

[bornadog]

If he was cleared to play and a warm-up aggravated it to the point it needs 3-4 weeks rest, there is a serious issue with the medical clearance protocols.

We have a huge injury list and evidence we've mismanaged played injury, it absolutely has to be a focus for review during the off-season.

We have had 5 players with soft tissue injuries including Wood, and Dickson recurring hammies and Suckling with his Achilles heel which has been a problem for two years now. The rest have all been broken bones, knees etc .

Hardly a disaster, however, agree the department needs to be reviewed as does the whole footy department to see where things went wrong this year.

[Mantis]

If he was cleared to play and a warm-up aggravated it to the point it needs 3-4 weeks rest, there is a serious issue with the medical clearance protocols.

We have a huge injury list and evidence we've mismanaged played injury, it absolutely has to be a focus for review during the off-season.

From discussions I had with some informed people on the weekend it sounded like we also botched Tim English's diagnosis which meant a potential 1-2 week injury turned into something much more significant (like 8-10 weeks)

From the outside I have zero confidence that our medical & conditoning team are doing a decent job, because if they were we wouldn't have had an injury epidemic these past 3 years.

Time for a change in personnel.

[Mofra]

Hardly a disaster, however, agree the department needs to be reviewed as does the whole footy department to see where things went wrong this year.



From discussions I had with some informed people on the weekend it sounded like we also botched Tim English's diagnosis which meant a potential 1-2 week injury turned into something much more significant (like 8-10 weeks)

From the outside I have zero confidence that our medical & conditoning team are doing a decent job, because if they were we wouldn't have had an injury epidemic these past 3 years.

Time for a change in personnel.
I'm very much in favour of the review however it may be a procedure rather than personnel change the review recommends.

The Tim English news has been rumoured for a while and is absolutely atrocious if true. It's not just an on-field performance issue but a welfare issue. These guys know their health is their livelihood and if the club can't guarantee proper medical care how can we really demand loyalty from them?

FWIW North do things very very differently to us (and most teams) and they have a very short injury list - Waite was their only injured player when they played us and he's 87 with dodgy calves.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I'm very much in favour of the review however it may be a procedure rather than personnel change the review recommends.

The Tim English news has been rumoured for a while and is absolutely atrocious if true. It's not just an on-field performance issue but a welfare issue. These guys know their health is their livelihood and if the club can't guarantee proper medical care how can we really demand loyalty from them?

FWIW North do things very very differently to us (and most teams) and they have a very short injury list - Waite was their only injured player when they played us and he's 87 with dodgy calves.

Shaun Higgins is the perfect example. Continually injured with us and hasn't missed a beat at North. Coincidence?

Bad luck or no, with 3 years of mass injuries, it's probably time for some change.

[bulldogtragic]

From discussions I had with some informed people on the weekend it sounded like we also botched Tim English's diagnosis which meant a potential 1-2 week injury turned into something much more significant (like 8-10 weeks)

From the outside I have zero confidence that our medical & conditoning team are doing a decent job, because if they were we wouldn't have had an injury epidemic these past 3 years.

Time for a change in personnel.

I always trust your info. In this event, that's an indictment on these people whose entire job is getting players back on the ground as fast and safe as possible. Not to mention that getting more AFL games into Tim would be ideal for his development into 2019. Again, his development suffers and the team suffers. Enough suffering through this please.

[bornadog]

if they were we wouldn't have had an injury epidemic these past 3 years.

Time for a change in personnel.

Do you have stats to say it's an epidemic? Take out the non soft tissue injuries.

This is a genuine question, because I don't know the answer. I checked this year and there were 5 or 6 that are soft tissue. Epidemic is a huge word.

PS: Tim missed 5 weeks and is listed as test this week.


Shaun Higgins is the perfect example. Continually injured with us and hasn't missed a beat at North. Coincidence?

Bad luck or no, with 3 years of mass injuries, it's probably time for some change.

Higgins left 3 years ago and we had a different team then ( not talking doctors, talking physio, and others involved with soft tissue injuries).

I have no doubt some problems, but we need facts not speculation.

[Mantis]

Do you have stats to say it's an epidemic? Take out the non soft tissue injuries.

This is a genuine question, because I don't know the answer. I checked this year and there were 5 or 6 that are soft tissue. Epidemic is a huge word.

PS: Tim missed 5 weeks and is listed as test this week.

Not sure it's a 'huge' word, but if I'm frustrated by the fact that we haven't had anywhere a fit list for 3 years I'm sure as hell thinking the coaching staff would be hoping just once we could pick our best 22. The only time it seems we had our shit together it seems from a medical sense was in the lead-up to the finals in 2016 when something clicked with regard to our player management... I wonder if anything was different through this period?

Forgot Tim played in the VFL after his last AFL game, but still 6 weeks is too long a break for what I'm hearing should've been rectified within 1-2 weeks.

[Twodogs]

From discussions I had with some informed people on the weekend it sounded like we also botched Tim English's diagnosis which meant a potential 1-2 week injury turned into something much more significant (like 8-10 weeks)

From the outside I have zero confidence that our medical & conditoning team are doing a decent job, because if they were we wouldn't have had an injury epidemic these past 3 years.

Time for a change in personnel.

I heard that too. From what I was told that there was some issue with the boots he was wearing and our medicos couldn't agree between themselves what the problem was so he ended up playing in the boots they thought were causing the problem.

[Bulldog4life]

In regard to our injuries playing on a car park regularly sure wouldn't help.

[bornadog]

In regard to our injuries playing on a car park regularly sure wouldn't help.

Williams out now with a foot injury

[Bulldog4life]

Williams out now with a foot injury

Yes just saw that.

[Remi Moses]

It’s got to be looked at closely
How doesSuckling go from being fit to play and getting injured. In a warm up?
Now theWilliams injury ! I’ve had Achilles tendinitis and it can flare anytime.

[bulldogtragic]

Was it Rod Stewart who said that some men get all the luck.

Either we get all the bad luck year on year, or maybe luck isn’t the issue.

Hopefully we have 22 guys to pick from by the end of the year. Williams has been looking great.

[Bulldog4life]

It’s got to be looked at closely
How doesSuckling go from being fit to play and getting injured. In a warm up?
Now theWilliams injury ! I’ve had Achilles tendinitis and it can flare anytime.

He is not the first for that to happen to and he sure won't be the last.

[Greystache]

We desperately need a clean out in the medical department. To call it disorganised chaos would be generous and it's been killing the team onfield. There's a real culture of all care and no responsibility combined with a dictatorial leadership structure that deflects blame for failure all round. We turn short term injuries into long term absences, treat chronic injuries appallingly, we make players fit to go sit on the sidelines longer than they need to, then bring back players who are underdone. Our injury prevention program is non-existent and the only way we manage an injury is to wait for it to flair up and put the player on the sidelines for an extended period. It's a shambles.

We clearly have no idea when players are ready to play and when they need to wait to come back, we may some wait while throwing others in early, it's just darts at a dartboard. Consistent injury plagues aren't just luck, and nothing will change unless we change it. I really hope Bains gives this the attention it needs immediately.

[Topdog]

In regard to our injuries playing on a car park regularly sure wouldn't help.

This would be the same carpark that North, Essendon and a bunch of other clubs play on regularly?

[Topdog]

Do you have stats to say it's an epidemic? Take out the non soft tissue injuries.

This is a genuine question, because I don't know the answer. I checked this year and there were 5 or 6 that are soft tissue. Epidemic is a huge word.


Why do we take out the non soft tissue injuries? We have absolutely had an injury epidemic over the last 3 years. We currently have I believe 11 players missing through injury. That is staggering.

[Greystache]

Why do we take out the non soft tissue injuries? We have absolutely had an injury epidemic over the last 3 years. We currently have I believe 11 players missing through injury. That is staggering.

Particularly foot injuries that have nothing to do with collisions/impact. Dale, Williams, English, and previously Adams were all load specific injuries. Obviously the English debacle is particularly damning.

[Bulldog Joe]

In regard to our injuries playing on a car park regularly sure wouldn't help.

That is just another excuse.

North play on the same ground and have basically no injuries in comparison.

[jeemak]

Remember, it's not just the type of injury - it's also injury management and recurrence.

[bornadog]

That is just another excuse.

North play on the same ground and have basically no injuries in comparison.

They currently have 5 soft tissue issues.

[chef]

The new Perth stadia has a carpark under it too doesn't it?

[bornadog]

Remember, it's not just the type of injury - it's also injury management and recurrence.

Agree with that, as you can't stop ACLs, broken bones, but the management of it is important and how the medicos deal with it.

[MrMahatma]

If it’s an issue, why wait until season’s end to make a change? Do it now.

[AndrewP6]

Why do we take out the non soft tissue injuries? We have absolutely had an injury epidemic over the last 3 years. We currently have I believe 11 players missing through injury. That is staggering.

Adelaide, GC, Collingwood and Carlton also have extensive injury lists, several other teams have only slightly lower numbers.

[1eyedog]

We desperately need a clean out in the medical department. To call it disorganised chaos would be generous and it's been killing the team onfield. There's a real culture of all care and no responsibility combined with a dictatorial leadership structure that deflects blame for failure all round. We turn short term injuries into long term absences, treat chronic injuries appallingly, we make players fit to go sit on the sidelines longer than they need to, then bring back players who are underdone. Our injury prevention program is non-existent and the only way we manage an injury is to wait for it to flair up and put the player on the sidelines for an extended period. It's a shambles.

We clearly have no idea when players are ready to play and when they need to wait to come back, we may some wait while throwing others in early, it's just darts at a dartboard. Consistent injury plagues aren't just luck, and nothing will change unless we change it. I really hope Bains gives this the attention it needs immediately.

Sounds like you've done a reasonably robust assessment then to get all those facts when personnel far closer to inner machinations of the club state otherwise.

The Giants, Suns, Crows have had far worse runs than us, the Pies too. I'm all up for an independent specialised review but to suggest gross incompetence and a sack em' all approach is a little bit too flaming brands and pitch forks for me.

[azabob]

Because other teams have extensive injury lists doesn’t mean we shouldn’t conduct a review of the medical and fitness department.

Surely improvements can be made. Four major structural foot injuries points to a pattern we are doing something wrong.

[LostDoggy]

The head of fitness and conditioning has to be in the gun. Recurring soft tissue injuries, poorly managed chronic conditions and more bone stress injuries than anyone.

Near the top of the injury ladder for three years running.

Actually, if I was head of our sports science department, I'd already be looking for a new job.

[Topdog]

We have 14 players on the injury list at the moment. Only Adelaide have more (15). It has to at least be discussed and we cant simply blame Etihad

[bulldogtragic]

The head of fitness and conditioning has to be in the gun. Recurring soft tissue injuries, poorly managed chronic conditions and more bone stress injuries than anyone.

Near the top of the injury ladder for three years running.

Actually, if I was head of our sports science department, I'd already be looking for a new job.

Hypothetically, if several people in and around Bell (maybe Bell himself) had a mutual positive separation with the club, how many other clubs would hire them/him based on our recent history with sustaining injuries and injury management (their area of responsibility)?

[Bulldog4life]

The head of fitness and conditioning has to be in the gun. Recurring soft tissue injuries, poorly managed chronic conditions and more bone stress injuries than anyone.

Near the top of the injury ladder for three years running.

Actually, if I was head of our sports science department, I'd already be looking for a new job.

There is a 5 year partnership from last October. There won't be any sackings.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-12-20/bulldogs-vu-create-afl-first-partnership

Members of the Western Bulldogs High Performance Team pictured at Victoria University Whitten Oval: [L-R] Senior Strength Coach Andy Barnett, Physical Performance Manager Dr Mat Inness, Sports Scientist Dr Alice Sweeting, Physical Performance Coach Calvin Philip, GPS Analyst Dave Corbett, Dietitian Claire Saundry. Photo: Liz Vagg.

The Western Bulldogs and Victoria University have today announced an AFL first, with VU becoming the branded partner for the Bulldogs’ High Performance team.

Led by VU alumni and Bulldogs’ Physical Performance Manager Dr Mathew Inness, the Club’s High Performance team contains many who have graduated from the University, or are currently studying.

As of 2017, the team added two PhD graduates, with Dr Inness and Dr Alice Sweeting submitting doctoratal theses examining the effect of altitude training on performance and exploring data mining techniques to analyse team-sport athlete match activity, respectively.

Dr Inness and his team are responsible for the overall physical performance of the players, which is achieved through nutrition, load monitoring and strength and conditioning training.

Dr Sweeting is a Research Fellow (Sport Science) with VU and the Bulldogs. Along with Associate Professor Sam Robertson, the High Performance team is further supported by a number of PhD, Honours and undergraduate students through the partnership with VU.

“I am incredibly proud that the strong connection between Victoria University and the Western Bulldogs will be reinforced through this AFL first,” said Victoria University Vice Chancellor and President Professor Peter Dawkins (AO).

“Over the years, VU sports scientists and students have helped the Western Bulldogs hone their performance and supported the high performance team’s activities, and to have them formally identified on match day is a great acknowledgement of VU’s contribution to the Club.

“I am particularly proud that the team will be led by Dr Inness, who was awarded his PhD in 2017 and exemplifies the amazing pathways this partnership presents for our students.”

In October this year, the Bulldogs and VU announced a five-year extension to their partnership.

“VU have been a long-term partner of the Club and as leaders in Sport Science, not just in Australia but globally, it made complete sense that VU became the partner of our Hgh Performance team,” said Bulldogs’ Director of Football, Chris Grant.

“With so many VU alumni and students working at our football club, it’s great to be able to showcase this link with a partnership such as this.”

The announcement caps off a strong commercial year for the Club, with other significant announcements made during 2017 including the expansion of AFLW partner Bob Jane T-Marts to platinum partner of the men’s team, the renewal of Cape Grim, and the addition of Mercedes-Benz Vans to its portfolio of partners

[Greystache]

Sounds like you've done a reasonably robust assessment then to get all those facts when personnel far closer to inner machinations of the club state otherwise.

The Giants, Suns, Crows have had far worse runs than us, the Pies too. I'm all up for an independent specialised review but to suggest gross incompetence and a sack em' all approach is a little bit too flaming brands and pitch forks for me.

Correct. Those closer to the inner sanctum are also very conscious of not being seen to have failed badly in their role. I do love a good "those in the inner sanctum know best" and "I'll take the expert's opinion over someone else" line of discussion however, because none of them have ever gotten it wrong before. So thanks for that.

[Greystache]

Because other teams have extensive injury lists doesn’t mean we shouldn’t conduct a review of the medical and fitness department.

Surely improvements can be made. Four major structural foot injuries points to a pattern we are doing something wrong.

They also haven't consistently had injury plagues over past seasons, which kind of gets lost in the injuries are purely a luck thing defence. Adelaide for example barely had an injury last season.


We have 14 players on the injury list at the moment. Only Adelaide have more (15). It has to at least be discussed and we cant simply blame Etihad

And as mentioned Adelaide barely had an injury last season. Meanwhile we're consistently near the top.


There is a 5 year partnership from last October. There won't be any sackings.

You do realise this is a sponsorship arrangement right?

You don't seriously believe we'd have locked in all members of a critical department for a 5 year block?

[1eyedog]

Because other teams have extensive injury lists doesn’t mean we shouldn’t conduct a review of the medical and fitness department.

Surely improvements can be made. Four major structural foot injuries points to a pattern we are doing something wrong.

100% agree

[Bulldog4life]

They also haven't consistently had injury plagues over past seasons, which kind of gets lost in the injuries are purely a luck thing defence. Adelaide for example barely had an injury last season.



And as mentioned Adelaide barely had an injury last season. Meanwhile we're consistently near the top.



You do realise this is a sponsorship arrangement right?

You don't seriously believe we'd have locked in all members of a critical department for a 5 year block?

I realize it is a sponsorship as well. As to how much influence the Vic Uni has over our sports science division, I know it is hard to believe, but even you wouldn't know.

[LostDoggy]

There is a 5 year partnership from last October. There won't be any sackings.

http://www.westernbulldogs.com.au/news/2017-12-20/bulldogs-vu-create-afl-first-partnership

Members of the Western Bulldogs High Performance Team pictured at Victoria University Whitten Oval: [L-R] Senior Strength Coach Andy Barnett, Physical Performance Manager Dr Mat Inness, Sports Scientist Dr Alice Sweeting, Physical Performance Coach Calvin Philip, GPS Analyst Dave Corbett, Dietitian Claire Saundry. Photo: Liz Vagg.

The Western Bulldogs and Victoria University have today announced an AFL first, with VU becoming the branded partner for the Bulldogs’ High Performance team.

Led by VU alumni and Bulldogs’ Physical Performance Manager Dr Mathew Inness, the Club’s High Performance team contains many who have graduated from the University, or are currently studying.

As of 2017, the team added two PhD graduates, with Dr Inness and Dr Alice Sweeting submitting doctoratal theses examining the effect of altitude training on performance and exploring data mining techniques to analyse team-sport athlete match activity, respectively.

Dr Inness and his team are responsible for the overall physical performance of the players, which is achieved through nutrition, load monitoring and strength and conditioning training.

Dr Sweeting is a Research Fellow (Sport Science) with VU and the Bulldogs. Along with Associate Professor Sam Robertson, the High Performance team is further supported by a number of PhD, Honours and undergraduate students through the partnership with VU.

“I am incredibly proud that the strong connection between Victoria University and the Western Bulldogs will be reinforced through this AFL first,” said Victoria University Vice Chancellor and President Professor Peter Dawkins (AO).

“Over the years, VU sports scientists and students have helped the Western Bulldogs hone their performance and supported the high performance team’s activities, and to have them formally identified on match day is a great acknowledgement of VU’s contribution to the Club.

“I am particularly proud that the team will be led by Dr Inness, who was awarded his PhD in 2017 and exemplifies the amazing pathways this partnership presents for our students.”

In October this year, the Bulldogs and VU announced a five-year extension to their partnership.

“VU have been a long-term partner of the Club and as leaders in Sport Science, not just in Australia but globally, it made complete sense that VU became the partner of our Hgh Performance team,” said Bulldogs’ Director of Football, Chris Grant.

“With so many VU alumni and students working at our football club, it’s great to be able to showcase this link with a partnership such as this.”

The announcement caps off a strong commercial year for the Club, with other significant announcements made during 2017 including the expansion of AFLW partner Bob Jane T-Marts to platinum partner of the men’s team, the renewal of Cape Grim, and the addition of Mercedes-Benz Vans to its portfolio of partners

Using the term 'High performance' in reference to our sports science program seems to be the very essence of oxymoronic.

[bulldogtragic]

Using the term 'High performance' in reference to our sports science program seems to be the very essence of oxymoronic.

Funny!

Perhaps 'no performance' would be more apt. There's 15 professional footballers at our club, owing to injury, giving no performance this week.

[1eyedog]

Correct. Those closer to the inner sanctum are also very conscious of not being seen to have failed badly in their role. I do love a good "those in the inner sanctum know best" and "I'll take the expert's opinion over someone else" line of discussion however, because none of them have ever gotten it wrong before. So thanks for that.

Correct, really? Tell us more of this robust assessment you've undertaken. Looked at medical data sheets,
spoke to players / interviewed the medical team / thoroughly reviewed rehab programs or have you just scoured injury lists and heard Chinese whispers from others? Or just lashing out because you don't understand what's happening? Seriously, I certainly have faith in upper management to get it as right as possible. There are too many internal and external specialists constantly monitoring injuries.

Tristan Tweedie came to the club with a serious leg injury and he has told me direct the clubs management and on going rehabilitation was exemplary. I'm not saying they don't get things wrong but they do mitigate injuries as much as possible, and club medicos are always talking to other club medicos and when an injury occurs you can be sure the rehabilitation program is not solely devised by the club. Every injury goes through Epworth where numerous independent specialists provide professional advice back to the club.

I'm not looking through rose coloured glasses I acknowledge our injury list is deplorable and our practices must be reviewed. I just need all the facts in order to make an informed decision. Especially when peoples jobs / relationships are on the line.

[bornadog]

Using the term 'High performance' in reference to our sports science program seems to be the very essence of oxymoronic.

Come on - you are now just being another troll.

[Greystache]

I realize it is a sponsorship as well. As to how much influence the Vic Uni has over our sports science division, I know it is hard to believe, but even you wouldn't know.

So what point were you trying to make by posting that old article? That we have a sponsorship with VU? They also sponsor the ground by the way, does that influence the type of grass we can use?

[bornadog]

So what point were you trying to make by posting that old article? That we have a sponsorship with VU? They also sponsor the ground by the way, does that influence the type of grass we can use?

Isn't more than just sponsorship with VU? I thought we worked with their sports science department. To what extent I am not sure.

[Greystache]

Isn't more than just sponsorship with VU? I thought we worked with their sports science department. To what extent I am not sure.

They provide resources and access to equipment at no cost. We provide their students access to elite athletes for education purposes, plus they throw in some sponsorship money on top for branding. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement arrangement that's particularly helpful to a less wealthy club like ours. We however decide the training, strengthening, rehab, and injury prevention programs, VU offer us support in doing it.

[LostDoggy]

Come on - you are now just being another troll.

Come back when you can explain how 3 BSIs and recurring ST injuries like Wood and Dickson is 'high performance'. And its not like its a one off bad yr either. And maybe try discussing without name calling.

[craigsahibee]

Injuries and reviews aside, Peter Gordon's first job in the post season should be a complete overhaul of the hospitality staff in the Victory Room ;).

The slow service of alcohol message gets confused with the responsible service of alcohol message. All jokes aside, it does take far too long to get a beer at the bar.

[Twodogs]

Isn't more than just sponsorship with VU? I thought we worked with their sports science department. To what extent I am not sure.


They provide resources and access to equipment at no cost. We provide their students access to elite athletes for education purposes, plus they throw in some sponsorship money on top for branding. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement arrangement that's particularly helpful to a less wealthy club like ours. We however decide the training, strengthening, rehab, and injury prevention programs, VU offer us support in doing it.

I think they called it a co-partnership when it was announced.

[Axe Man]

Injuries and reviews aside, Peter Gordon's first job in the post season should be a complete overhaul of the hospitality staff in the Victory Room ;).

The slow service of alcohol message gets confused with the responsible service of alcohol message. All jokes aside, it does take far too long to get a beer at the bar.

Agreed. Last week a woman gave another a mouthful after she let about 5 of her friends/family cut in the very long bar line.

[bornadog]

Come back when you can explain how 3 BSIs and recurring ST injuries like Wood and Dickson is 'high performance'. And its not like its a one off bad yr either. And maybe try discussing without name calling.

Oxymoronic - that is great way to discuss this subject matter.

[Twodogs]

Oxymoron isn't name calling.

[bornadog]

Oxymoron isn't name calling.

I called him a troll, only because he uses words like that.

[bulldogtragic]

Oxymoronic - that is great way to discuss this subject matter.

That's just a mere description. What's wrong with a poster using 'oxymoron' to describe their thoughts of something such labelled being the opposite, or in complete contradiction of the label in practice? Seems a legitimate use of the term to my understanding of the word and what was being said.

Best back to topic I'd suggest.

[bornadog]

double

[Bulldog4life]

So what point were you trying to make by posting that old article? That we have a sponsorship with VU? They also sponsor the ground by the way, does that influence the type of grass we can use?

Now you are being silly. My main point is, although you might think you know, you haven't a clue in hell what influence the VU sports science dept has over our players.

[bornadog]

Whatever BT, if that is how someone wants to make an argument with no facts to back it up.

[bulldogtragic]

Whatever BT, if that is how someone wants to make an argument with no facts to back it up.

Im just trying to keep the focus on the thread topic at hand.

[Greystache]

Now you are being silly. My main point is, although you might think you know, you haven't a clue in hell what influence the VU sports science dept has over our players.

I'm glad someone who doesn't know me, has never met me, and has no idea who I have contact with would know I have no idea about the relationship with VU. That's some psychic level of insight you posses!

[Bulldog4life]

I'm glad someone who doesn't know me, has never met me, and has no idea who I have contact with would know I have no idea about the relationship with VU. That's some psychic level of insight you posses!

I will pm the Powerball numbers to you if you are good.

[LostDoggy]

Whatever BT, if that is how someone wants to make an argument with no facts to back it up.

I have used facts to which you seem unable to respond to in a mature fashion without name calling. Disappointing really.

[bornadog]

I have used facts to which you seem unable to respond to in a mature fashion without name calling. Disappointing really.

The facts I am talking about are breaking down the last 3 years injuries and let's see how many are soft tissue and how many are ACLs, broken bones, ankles etc in general play and compare that to the rest of the comp. Of course injury management is another area to look at as well.

I am not saying we don't have problems, but I also like facts and figures and not second hand news from someone who knows someone.

As I have said, the club needs to do a review at the end of the year.

[LostDoggy]

The facts I am talking about are breaking down the last 3 years injuries and let's see how many are soft tissue and how many are ACLs, broken bones, ankles etc in general play and compare that to the rest of the comp. Of course injury management is another area to look at as well.

I am not saying we don't have problems, but I also like facts and figures and not second hand news from someone who knows someone.

As I have said, the club needs to do a review at the end of the year.

Bone stress injuries are a diect result of overwork and possibly poor monitoring. Something our sports science team is responsible for managing. It isnt secondhand info that we have three BSIs, it is fact. So too is it factual that Wood and Dickson have suffered recurrent hamstring injuries.

So i would suggest that our sports science team describing themselves as 'high performance' is taking the piss, as the opposite is true. I assume you agree things arent travelling well, hence your call for a review.

The fact is our so called 'high performance' team is underperforming (and that is a textbook eg of an oxymoron, a Telstra 'help' desk is another oxymoron).

So on topic, if Im Peter Gordon my first priority would be reviewing and likely changing our sports science set up. It isnt working and it hasn't worked for three years.

The flow on effect is massive as our best 27 let alone 22 never plays. Performance and memberships then suffer. And crucially players will simply refuse to come to a club with such a sloppy injury management record. O'Meara for example picked Hawthorn mainly due to their injury management record.

[azabob]

Im just trying to keep the focus on the thread topic at hand.

Regardless how we finish the season I think we still need a major review and some change of assistant coaches and the wider football department.

I hope we are well under way in reviewing our list management strategy and decisions over the past 3 years. A particular focus on offering contracts and length of contracts.

[bulldogtragic]

Regardless how we finish the season I think we still need a major review and some change of assistant coaches and the wider football department.

I hope we are well under way in reviewing our list management strategy and decisions over the past 3 years. A particular focus on offering contracts and length of contracts.

Yep. There's a lot of fix. The up shot is that if Gordon & Bains & Grant really the gumption to make all the hard necessary changes, the club will benefit bigly with the talent we have on our list and more talent this draft/trade period. I hope they make the hard calls, tough decisions and set us up. As a member, I'd love an actual review document (less sensitive info obviously) to be given to members outlining where we are at, why we are here now and what they're doing to turn one flag into a dynasty period (which we can do). Having a report like that to read would be worth more than a copy of the AGM, magnets, key rings or stickers as a reason to invest even more financially into the club for existing members and sway members not to leave and sceptics to sign up. I doubt it'll happen though, probably just a poorly developed communications strategy to not address this stuff head on and just watch an online video about how things are awesome. But I can hope for the latter.

[jeemak]

What if Gordon and Grant are part of the problem? How significant a review are we in need of?

[Axe Man]

Today I have read of Menzel from Geelong missing 8-10 weeks due to a cortisone injection going wrong and Carlisle from St Kilda suffering a punctured lung during treatment for a rib injury. Lucky those unfortunate events didn't happen at the Bulldogs or the medical staff would be strung up!

[bornadog]

Today I have read of Menzel from Geelong missing 8-10 weeks due to a cortisone injection going wrong and Carlisle from St Kilda suffering a punctured lung during treatment for a rib injury. Lucky those unfortunate events didn't happen at the Bulldogs or the medical staff would be strung up!

Bruce also broke his leg at training

[bornadog]

What if Gordon and Grant are part of the problem? How significant a review are we in need of?

What problem?

[Eastdog]

Injuries and reviews aside, Peter Gordon's first job in the post season should be a complete overhaul of the hospitality staff in the Victory Room ;).

The slow service of alcohol message gets confused with the responsible service of alcohol message. All jokes aside, it does take far too long to get a beer at the bar.

People were saying that standing in line to get a beer at the social club 2 weeks ago :)

[Eastdog]

I wonder about the western oval surface causing the problems.
Is it prepared to be the same state as the Etihad surface? Eg hardness and grass length.

Would be interested in a study of that. Could go someway maybe to explaining the injury situation or maybe not.

[jeemak]

What problem?

Is this a serious question?

On the assumption that it is, I'll preface my response by stating I don't think things across every under-performing aspect of the club spoken of over the course of the last 18 months are as bad as they seem.

Here are the areas I think need work summarised:

1. Club communications, to members, to the media and to the broader football public
2. Injury rate, ability of players to return without recurrence of injury
3. List management, trading, recruitment and development of talent
4. Player culture, focus on the job at hand, leadership

There's probably a few more areas, but each of the above are directly aligned to the football department and the senior leadership of our football club. I won't be going into specific examples for the sake of this post. However, each of these areas and their output are under the direct management of both Peter Gordon and Chris Grant. Bains gets a free pass because he has been here for five minutes.

Now, the angle I'm coming from is that I think a thorough review is needed across the whole football club. That review may determine that we are on course or plan, it might not. What I'm asking is, is the review actually effective if it doesn't also account for those responsible for the direct leadership of the areas we might be under-performing in?

You will note I haven't nominated considerations for the excellent work we have done to get our back-end on a level that should be commended. It goes without saying we are in a fantastic position, one I am surprised to see ourselves in. What I am saying though is top level organisations aspire to excellence in all areas.

[bornadog]

Is this a serious question?

On the assumption that it is, I'll preface my response by stating I don't think things across every under-performing aspect of the club spoken of over the course of the last 18 months are as bad as they seem.

Here are the areas I think need work summarised:

1. Club communications, to members, to the media and to the broader football public
2. Injury rate, ability of players to return without recurrence of injury
3. List management, trading, recruitment and development of talent
4. Player culture, focus on the job at hand, leadership

There's probably a few more areas, but each of the above are directly aligned to the football department and the senior leadership of our football club. I won't be going into specific examples for the sake of this post. However, each of these areas and their output are under the direct management of both Peter Gordon and Chris Grant. Bains gets a free pass because he has been here for five minutes.

Now, the angle I'm coming from is that I think a thorough review is needed across the whole football club. That review may determine that we are on course or plan, it might not. What I'm asking is, is the review actually effective if it doesn't also account for those responsible for the direct leadership of the areas we might be under-performing in?

You will note I haven't nominated considerations for the excellent work we have done to get our back-end on a level that should be commended. It goes without saying we are in a fantastic position, one I am surprised to see ourselves in. What I am saying though is top level organisations aspire to excellence in all areas.

As usual Jeemak, an excellent post which I agree to.

My question of what problem was to get you to lush out the areas you consider need reviewing. I particularly agree with the last paragraph and sentence.

I think you will find we have done the review on List management, recruiting and we have a new structure in place with new people.

[Sedat]

I'm going to make some presumptions here. Naughton looks to have seriously injured his ankle again tonight. There didn't seem to be much in the way of a twisting or rolling motion when he hurt it. I really hope it is not a recurrence of his ankle injury from earlier in the season.

I am heartily sick and tired of seeing a long lnjury list year after year, and I especially hate seeing recurring injuries even more.

Review the dept please PG and Ameet Bains. It is simply too important not to review with a fine tooth comb. Please don't chalk it down to 'bad luck' and at the very least have a thorough look at our processes, our personnel, the lines of communication and the reasons for the outcome of massive injury concerns and the hefty slice of recurring injuries to players for over 3 years now.

[Go_Dogs]

Reading the release around Webb brought me here.

The lack of information is curious.

[bornadog]

Reading the release around Webb brought me here.

The lack of information is curious.

Why???

Here are the details:

Lukas Webb


The 22-year-old has been ruled out for the remainder of the 2018 season with a neck injury.

Webb had returned from a fractured thumb in the VFL last weekend against Casey Demons and got his neck caught in a tackle, which pulled up sore after the game.

The position where his neck received the contact caused a compression injury to a bone in his lower neck.

At this stage Webb will be managed conservatively, and the Club will work towards him resuming training in the pre-season.

“The scans have shown it's a bit more serious than we thought it would be, so we'll take really cautious steps with him,” Beveridge said.

[Topdog]

You dont want to mess around with neck injuries. This was one of the few that i read and thought yeah that makes sense.

[Sedat]

At this stage Webb will be managed conservatively, and the Club will work towards him resuming training in the pre-season.
Every injured player on our list is 'conservatively managed'. It's Chris Bell's go-to line every single week.

Hope Webb recovers well - nasty injury.

[bornadog]

Vacancy if anyone is interested:

Strength & Conditioning

Western Bulldogs AFL (Melbourne, AUS) are looking for a Senior Strength & Conditioning Coach, full-time, AUS$100,000 - $150,000 per annum.

[bulldogtragic]

A good first step in the right direction if we get a good candidate. A first step.

You applying BAD? It’s all numbers at the end of the day :D

[ReLoad]

Ive applied, as i don't have any strength or conditioning! just what i need!

[Webby]

Vacancy if anyone is interested:

Strength & Conditioning

Western Bulldogs AFL (Melbourne, AUS) are looking for a Senior Strength & Conditioning Coach, full-time, AUS$100,000 - $150,000 per annum.

I believe that is Matty Inness’s position. Got a gut feeling Essendon might be calling. Just a semi-educated guess.
Not sure that Dale Morris could be taught much about strength and conditioning that he doesn’t already know..!

[bulldogtragic]

I believe that is Matty Inness’s position. Got a gut feeling Essendon might be calling. Just a semi-educated guess.
Not sure that Dale Morris could be taught much about strength and conditioning that he doesn’t already know..!

Matt is now the physical performance manager. He got promoted from S&C a while back. I'm not sure who is out the door.

[bornadog]

I believe that is Matty Inness’s position. Got a gut feeling Essendon might be calling. Just a semi-educated guess.
Not sure that Dale Morris could be taught much about strength and conditioning that he doesn’t already know..!

Matt was the one advertising the role.


Matt is now the physical performance manager. He got promoted from S&C a while back. I'm not sure who is out the door.

I think so

[SlimPickens]

Possibly Andy Barrett is the one who left

[ledge]

I believe that’s for the AFL women team.

[Axe Man]

Vacancy if anyone is interested:

Strength & Conditioning

Western Bulldogs AFL (Melbourne, AUS) are looking for a Senior Strength & Conditioning Coach, full-time, AUS$100,000 - $150,000 per annum.

This was Andy Barnett's role wasn't it?

[1eyedog]

Shaun Higgins is the perfect example. Continually injured with us and hasn't missed a beat at North. Coincidence?

Bad luck or no, with 3 years of mass injuries, it's probably time for some change.

Higgins has missed significant game time at North, even recently he missed 8 weeks.

[Greystache]

Possibly Andy Barrett is the one who left

He was one of the few I was impressed with. Her oversaw a very young group out muscle much more mature teams in the contest and win a flag through physical effort.

[Axe Man]

I believe that’s for the AFL women team.

You reckon we would pay $100-$150k for a strength and conditioning coach for the women's team?:eek:

There is a separate role advertised for a high performance manager for the women's team.

[ledge]

You reckon we would pay $100-$150k for a strength and conditioning coach for the women's team?:eek:

There is a separate role advertised for a high performance manager for the women's team.

Ok so that’s what I saw.

[SlimPickens]

He was one of the few I was impressed with. Her oversaw a very young group out muscle much more mature teams in the contest and win a flag through physical effort.

Agree, he is an American maybe returning home? Not sure

[azabob]

Is that salary unders for top talent?

[Axe Man]

Sounds very much like the review many have called for on here. Funny that it's being conducted by our former high performance manager.

Former Bulldogs boss looks at Carlton fitness regime (https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/former-bulldogs-boss-looks-at-carlton-fitness-regime-20180821-p4zywd.html)

Carlton have undertaken an extensive review of their fitness and conditioning regime, having hired a former Western Bulldogs official from Ernst & Young to complete the review.

The Blues have brought in former Bulldogs football department boss Graham Lowe to have an independent assessment of their ‘‘high performance’’ program, following a season in which the club has lost a large number of games to injury and struggled on the field.

Lowe has been speaking to staff and some of the players for the review of the fitness-conditioning program over the past month.

The review is expected to be completed next week, after the final game against Adelaide.
While the Blues are among the highest in the AFL for games lost to injury this year, they say the review is a case of ensuring that their conditioning and fitness regime – which includes conditioning, sports science and physios – has ‘‘best practice’’ rather than searching for scapegoats after another tough year on the field.

The Blues, who rank with Collingwood and Adelaide for games lost to injury in 2018, note that the bulk of their injuries are ‘‘collision-based’’ – such as ankles and shoulders – rather than soft-tissue injuries such as hamstrings, groins and quadriceps.

Clubs tend to question the management of soft-tissue injuries more than those sustained via collisions.

The review encompasses all areas of the conditioning-fitness program, with Lowe having been the Bulldogs’ high performance manager prior to becoming general manager of the Dogs’ football department, a position he filled until last April.

Carlton chief executive Cain Liddle confirmed to The Age that the Blues had brought in Lowe for the review. “For the past month, Graham Lowe, an independent consultant from Ernst & Young, has conducted a thorough review of our high-performance area,’’ said Liddle.

‘‘The basis for this review is to ensure we continue to invest in the development of our athletes and commit to best-practice standards across all facets of high performance.”

The Blues are confident that their methods in conditioning are sound, but they believe the review is still necessary for potential improvements.

Carlton already know that the team’s running capacity, as measured by GPS data, is not an issue – the numbers say that the Blues are running further and faster than most opposition sides, despite their relative youth.

The injury toll, though, has been significant, even if it has been obscured by the team’s struggles on the field. Sam Docherty missed the entire season after a knee reconstruction in pre-season, while injury-hit skipper Marc Murphy has played just 12 games, Giants recruit Matt Kennedy has missed a significant chunk after ankle problems, key defender Caleb Marchbank has played just 11 games, Lachie Plowman 13 and Tom Williamson has missed the whole season. Matthew Kreuzer has recently missed games with a heart problem. Jarrod Garlett had a shoulder operation.

Lowe had worked with New Zealand’s All Blacks before he joined the Bulldogs.

[GVGjr]

We could do worse than to follow this lead.

[Go_Dogs]

Interesting that Lowe has wound up as an EY consultant.

[ReLoad]

Interesting that Lowe has wound up as an EY consultant.

Kaching, kaching......