List Analysis - August 2018

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There has been a lot of discussion on WOOF regarding the state of our list. Some on here are optimistic, others not so much so i thought it'd be worthwhile to discuss where we see our list sits given performance to date.

Of course this is very subjective, but i have given my breakdown below. The categories are:

A graders = This player is elite
Rate = I rate this player either currently of with a view to the future
Don't rate = I either never rated this player or don't rate them going forward
Jury's still out = Can be one of two things. Either haven't seen enough of them to know one way or the other OR they are a player who has previously played at a high level but is no longer playing to that level for unknown reasons and the jury is still out as to whether they will recapture that form. A good comparison is Biggs and Dahlhaus. I put Biggs in the don't rate category as i don't see him getting back to 2016 form and he didn't have enough runs on the board to suggest he's capable of finding form. Dahl on the other hand has played at a higher level for longer so i see him as someone who could eventually recapture that form.
Finished = Has either retired or don't see them getting back on the park or to potential due to injury

A Graders
Marcus Bontempelli
Jack Macrae

Rate
Aaron Naughton
Bailey Williams
Billy Gowers
Caleb Daniel
Dale Morris
Easton Wood
Ed Richards
Hayden Crozier
Josh Dunkley
Josh Schache
Lachie Hunter
Liam Picken
Matthew Suckling
Mitch Wallis
Patrick Lipinski
Tim English
Toby McLean
Zaine Cordy
Jason Johannisen

Don't rate
Fletcher Roberts
Jordan Roughead
Kieran Collins
Lin Jong
Lukas Webb
Mitch Honeychurch
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh
Roarke Smith
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell

Jury's still out
Bailey Dale
Brad Lynch
Callum Porter
Fergus Greene
Lewis Young
Luke Dahlhaus
Marcus Adams
Tom Boyd
Tom Liberatore
Jackson Trengove

Finished
Clay Smith
Jack Redpath
Tory Dickson

So out of 44 players, I:

Rate: 21
Don't Rate: 10
Jury's still out: 10
Finished: 3

So i am happy with 45% of our list. Questions marks remain over 23% of our list and i don't rate a quarter of our list. Interestingly of the players i don't rate, half of them are talls.

I'm bullish of our younger players but we clearly have a lot of players who are potential A graders but have question marks over their future. I think the list is in decent shape and can be turned around pretty quickly....provided the players can actually stay on the park. But it's not as bleak as some make out.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I decided to cut our list another way and look at list balance. I've categorised our list into key areas/roles.

I've then totalled each category to get an idea on the balance of our list.

I've also then subtracted from these totals, the number of players who are either finished, are not rated or have question marks over them (derived from the original list in OP)

The results aren't pretty. We look or for defence and that's about it.

The talk of getting Lloyd makes sense when you look at the mid-sized forwards we will lose and that doesn't take into account Picken. Where would we be if Gowers didn't become the player he has shown this season?

As we all know, we have zero small crumbing forwards outside of Greene

Inside mids take a massive hit when you consider the out of form players in Dahl and Libba. Makes the talk of turning Wally into a goal kicking forward more bizzare given the inside mids we have who aren't performing. I get Bevo wants to add strings to players' bow but we have much larger problems

Outside mids looks ok, but given they consist of Macrae and Hunter whose disposal is poor, we still need class.

Overall, if we didn't have stagnating players, we'd be in a much better position. But alas, we have plenty of work to do



Tall Forwards (2) Less 1 = 1
Josh Schache
Tom Boyd


Mid Forwards (4) Less 2 = 2
Billy Gowers
Liam Picken
Jack Redpath
Tory Dickson


Small Forwards (1) Less 1 = 0
Fergus Greene


Inside Mids (8) Less 6 = 2
Josh Dunkley
Mitch Wallis
Lin Jong
Mitch Honeychurch
Callum Porter
Luke Dahlhaus
Tom Liberatore
Clay Smith


Outside Mids (5) Less 1 = 4
Marcus Bontempelli
Jack Macrae
Caleb Daniel
Lachie Hunter
Lukas Webb


Wings (3) Less 1 = 2
Patrick Lipinski
Bailey Dale
Toby McLean


Halfbacks (8) Less 4 = 4
Bailey Williams
Ed Richards
Hayden Crozier
Matthew Suckling
Roarke Smith
Shane Biggs
Brad Lynch
Jason Johannisen


Tall Defenders (5) Less 3 = 2
Dale Morris
Zaine Cordy
Fletcher Roberts
Jackson Trengove
Kieran Collins


Intercept Defenders (4) Less 2 = 2
Aaron Naughton
Easton Wood
Lewis Young
Marcus Adams


Rucks (4) Less 3 = 1
Tim English
Jordan Roughead
Tom Campbell
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh

[Rocket Science]

Bang on about Gowers.

It's a welcome surprise he's come on and shows a competitive streak few others exhibit, but while no slight to the lad I wonder if we'll look back and muse "Hey, remember the year Gowers won our goalkicking? Heheh craaazy!"

Repeat. Gowers leads our goal kicking.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Bang on about Gowers.

It's a welcome surprise he's come on and shows a competitive streak few others exhibit, but while no slight to the lad I wonder if we'll look back and muse "Hey, remember the year Gowers won our goalkicking? Heheh craaazy!"

Repeat. Gowers leads our goal kicking.
That is crazy. A rookie is leading our goal kicking......

[Twodogs]

I decided to cut our list another way and look at list balance. I've categorised our list into key areas/roles.

I've then totalled each category to get an idea on the balance of our list.

I've also then subtracted from these totals, the number of players who are either finished, are not rated or have question marks over them (derived from the original list in OP)

The results aren't pretty. We look or for defence and that's about it.

The talk of getting Lloyd makes sense when you look at the mid-sized forwards we will lose and that doesn't take into account Picken. Where would we be if Gowers didn't become the player he has shown this season?

As we all know, we have zero small crumbing forwards outside of Greene

Inside mids take a massive hit when you consider the out of form players in Dahl and Libba. Makes the talk of turning Wally into a goal kicking forward more bizzare given the inside mids we have who aren't performing. I get Bevo wants to add strings to players' bow but we have much larger problems

Outside mids looks ok, but given they consist of Macrae and Hunter whose disposal is poor, we still need class.

Overall, if we didn't have stagnating players, we'd be in a much better position. But alas, we have plenty of work to do



Tall Forwards (2) Less 1 = 1
Josh Schache
Tom Boyd


Mid Forwards (4) Less 2 = 2
Billy Gowers
Liam Picken
Jack Redpath
Tory Dickson


Small Forwards (1) Less 1 = 0
Fergus Greene


Inside Mids (8) Less 6 = 2
Josh Dunkley
Mitch Wallis
Lin Jong
Mitch Honeychurch
Callum Porter
Luke Dahlhaus
Tom Liberatore
Clay Smith


Outside Mids (5) Less 1 = 4
Marcus Bontempelli
Jack Macrae
Caleb Daniel
Lachie Hunter
Lukas Webb


Wings (3) Less 1 = 2
Patrick Lipinski
Bailey Dale
Toby McLean


Halfbacks (8) Less 4 = 4
Bailey Williams
Ed Richards
Hayden Crozier
Matthew Suckling
Roarke Smith
Shane Biggs
Brad Lynch
Jason Johannisen


Tall Defenders (5) Less 3 = 2
Dale Morris
Zaine Cordy
Fletcher Roberts
Jackson Trengove
Kieran Collins


Intercept Defenders (4) Less 2 = 2
Aaron Naughton
Easton Wood
Lewis Young
Marcus Adams


Rucks (4) Less 3 = 1
Tim English
Jordan Roughead
Tom Campbell
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh


I like the division you've come up with there.

Gee our list is so unbalanced.

[LostDoggy]

That is crazy. A rookie is leading our goal kicking......

...An injured rookie leads our goal kicking...

[bulldogtragic]

I guess they do this analysis at the club, but the fact the list is like it is makes you wonder if they do.

[bornadog]

I would rate Libba an A grader

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I would rate Libba an A grader

If this was the start of 2017 i would as well. But the fact is, like Dahlhaus, Daniel, Biggs, JJ and more, he went backwards in 2017. Yes by all reports he had a great preseason and hasn't had the luxury of proving himself this year, but based on 2017 form i have a ? over him. I mean, there's been talk of not even re-signing him or re-signing on less than market rate. Not what you would do to an A grader

[Twodogs]

...An injured rookie leads our goal kicking...


...an injured rookie who can't kick straight leads our goalkicking.

[Go_Dogs]

Interesting analysis, thanks.

It definitely highlights we have a number of players entering "career years" which is hopefully a good thing for their application and motivation, and that we also have to re-balance our list over the next few off-seasons.

[westdog54]

...an injured rookie who can't kick straight leads our goalkicking.

An injured rookie who can't kick straight and has rotated through the midfield is leading our goalkicking.

Keep it going...

[bornadog]

An injured rookie who can't kick straight and has rotated through the midfield is leading our goalkicking.



and who has some passion and aggression not seen for awhile

[Twodogs]

An injured rookie who can't kick straight and has rotated through the midfield who has some passion and aggression not seen for awhile who started last year playing in the Ammos is leading our goalkicking.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

An injured rookie who can't kick straight and has rotated through the midfield who has some passion and aggression not seen for awhile who started last year playing in the Ammos is leading our goalkicking.

An injured rookie who can't kick straight and has rotated through the midfield who has some passion and aggression not seen for awhile who started last year playing in the Ammos and who couldn't get a game for a historically bad Carlton is leading our goalkicking

[Mofra]

An injured rookie who can't kick straight and has rotated through the midfield is leading our goalkicking.

Keep it going...
... who has also taken the mantle of 'best instagram at the club' away from Biggsy, which is arguably a greater feat.

[Mofra]

I decided to cut our list another way and look at list balance. I've categorised our list into key areas/roles.
Fair effort, but an impossible task. Boyd as a tall forward? Maybe in three year's time if you listen to interviews, but he's played more ruck than anywhere else.
Trengove trained forward/ruck pre-season, has been swung back for most of the year, then played as our no 1 ruck on the weekend.
NMM I haven't seen ruck at all at VFL level this year, has played more forward and despite his height often the mid sized forward because he's agile and we normally have 1-2 of Campbell/Roughy/English there.

Flexibility means it's harder to judge where players will play their football. Ed Richards? I'll say his natural position is being changed from HB to wing.
Bailey Dale seems more comfortable forward of the ball.
Clay Smith played forward far more than midfield too (although now it's sadly moot).

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Fair effort, but an impossible task. Boyd as a tall forward? Maybe in three year's time if you listen to interviews, but he's played more ruck than anywhere else.
Trengove trained forward/ruck pre-season, has been swung back for most of the year, then played as our no 1 ruck on the weekend.
NMM I haven't seen ruck at all at VFL level this year, has played more forward and despite his height often the mid sized forward because he's agile and we normally have 1-2 of Campbell/Roughy/English there.

Flexibility means it's harder to judge where players will play their football. Ed Richards? I'll say his natural position is being changed from HB to wing.
Bailey Dale seems more comfortable forward of the ball.
Clay Smith played forward far more than midfield too (although now it's sadly moot).

Yeah some players were tough to place. But i went down the path of placing players where their perceived strengths are for us fans. I think most of us agree Boyd was meant to be a tall forward and that's where his future is. He's not a ruckman. Others like Clay, Trengrove, Richards, Dale, Mclean even Picken can, to their credit, play multiple positions well.

NMM, honestly i had no idea where he played so it was a guess!

[Twodogs]

Yeah some players were tough to place. But i went down the path of placing players where their perceived strengths are for us fans. I think most of us agree Boyd was meant to be a tall forward and that's where his future is. He's not a ruckman. Others like Clay, Trengrove, Richards, Dale, Mclean even Picken can, to their credit, play multiple positions well.

NMM, honestly i had no idea where he played so it was a guess!

You needed a category titled 'other'

[westdog54]

... who has also taken the mantle of 'best instagram at the club' away from Biggsy, which is arguably a greater feat.


An injured rookie who can't kick straight and has rotated through the midfield who has some passion and aggression not seen for awhile who started last year playing in the Ammos and who couldn't get a game for a historically bad Carlton is leading our goalkicking

An injured rookie who can't kick straight and has rotated through the midfield who has some passion and aggression not seen for awhile who started last year playing in the Ammos and who couldn't get a game for a historically bad Carlton who has also taken the mantle of 'best instagram at the club' away from Biggsy and whose dad has served on the board of a rival club, is leading our goalkicking.

This is fun.

[G-Mo77]

Fletcher Roberts got a "home ground" send off last week. Dropped after 1 week? Thanks for everything Sid!

[Ghost Dog]

Yeah some players were tough to place. But i went down the path of placing players where their perceived strengths are for us fans. I think most of us agree Boyd was meant to be a tall forward and that's where his future is. He's not a ruckman. Others like Clay, Trengrove, Richards, Dale, Mclean even Picken can, to their credit, play multiple positions well.

NMM, honestly i had no idea where he played so it was a guess!

Why not? honestly think Tom Boyd will always ruck for us. He can't handle the pressure of being a full time foward. But that's ok. He contributes.

[jeemak]

Great posting BDT&T.

Much to think about. I'm of the view that our list attrition will pretty much balance everything out aside from genuine forward stock. This and midfield depth is where we need to focus our efforts.

[Mofra]

Fletcher Roberts got a "home ground" send off last week. Dropped after 1 week? Thanks for everything Sid!
He's contracted for next year. I've said before I'd keep him before Collins. Base salary back up I'd imagine.

[DOG GOD]

I can’t say I agree with the way the MC has treated Fletch...he played well in our premiership year and has been pretty much relegated to the VFL without a chance to cement his spot since, unlike some others who seem the coaches pet.

No he’s not the best defender in the AFL, but he’s certainly not the worst, and I still feel he can offer something. I’m not sure why the coaches have lost their faith in him.

[LostDoggy]

I can’t say I agree with the way the MC has treated Fletch...he played well in our premiership year and has been pretty much relegated to the VFL without a chance to cement his spot since, unlike some others who seem the coaches pet.

No he’s not the best defender in the AFL, but he’s certainly not the worst, and I still feel he can offer something. I’m not sure why the coaches have lost their faith in him.

There was a stat a couple of yrs ago when Fletch was playing more that had him as losing the most one on one contests of all KPDs in the AFL. One on one he actually is one of the worst KPDs. Given his treatment by the MC, if he wasn't contracted he would be gone. He still may be.

[Twodogs]

I know we went mainly zone defence on GF day but I thought that when they manned up that Hamling took Buddy? But a few posters here say that Roberts was on Buddy on GF day. Everytime I looked over to see the match ups Hamling would be standing next to Franklin.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

An injured rookie who can't kick straight and has rotated through the midfield who has some passion and aggression not seen for awhile who started last year playing in the Ammos and who couldn't get a game for a historically bad Carlton is leading our goalkicking and whose father played for bloody Hawthorn.

[HOSE B ROMERO]

Now what was this thread about again??

[Twodogs]

Not injured rookies obviously.

[Happy Days]

I know we went mainly zone defence on GF day but I thought that when they manned up that Hamling took Buddy? But a few posters here say that Roberts was on Buddy on GF day. Everytime I looked over to see the match ups Hamling would be standing next to Franklin.

I kind of got the feeling that we retconned Hamling to being the one who contributed less of the two during the finals after he walked out.

[Twodogs]

I kind of got the feeling that we retconned Hamling to being the one who contributed less of the two during the finals after he walked out.

We probably did. So who manned up on Cyril when we played Hawthorn? We should retcon that one too.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

An injured rookie who can't kick straight and has rotated through the midfield who has some passion and aggression not seen for awhile who started last year playing in the Ammos and who couldn't get a game for a historically bad Carlton is leading our goalkicking and whose father played for bloody Hawthorn.

An injured rookie who can't kick straight and has rotated through the midfield who has some passion and aggression not seen for awhile who started last year playing in the Ammos and who couldn't get a game for a historically bad Carlton and whose father played for bloody Hawthorn is leading our goalkicking and is in frame for selection this week

Ryan might have been reading this thread :D

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-08-06/dogs-leading-goalkicker-among-trio-in-frame

[AshMac]

Honestly not surprised Gowers is leading our goal kicking. Other than Dicko he’s the only “genuine” forward we have. I’m also wondering if he can back it up next year, particularly when we get players back and our game style and structure changes. 50:50 on him to date but love what I’ve seen this year.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

To track our progress. That's 3 of the don't rate list and 1 off the finished list

A Graders
Marcus Bontempelli
Jack Macrae

Rate
Aaron Naughton
Bailey Williams
Billy Gowers
Caleb Daniel
Dale Morris
Easton Wood
Ed Richards
Hayden Crozier
Josh Dunkley
Josh Schache
Lachie Hunter
Liam Picken
Matthew Suckling
Mitch Wallis
Patrick Lipinski
Tim English
Toby McLean
Zaine Cordy
Jason Johannisen

Don't rate
Fletcher Roberts
Jordan Roughead
Kieran Collins
Lin Jong
Lukas Webb
Mitch Honeychurch
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh
Roarke Smith
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell

Jury's still out
Bailey Dale
Brad Lynch
Callum Porter
Fergus Greene
Lewis Young
Luke Dahlhaus
Marcus Adams
Tom Boyd
Tom Liberatore
Jackson Trengove

Finished
Clay Smith
Jack Redpath
Tory Dickson

[Mantis]

Does JJ's good finish to the year (when played in his preferred position) change you ranking of him? Cause I can't agree he belongs in that grouping.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Does JJ's good finish to the year (when played in his preferred position) change you ranking of him? Cause I can't agree he belongs in that grouping.

Yeah agree. The original grouping was done in August following our loss to Port Adelaide. At that stage JJ looked soft, uncompetitive and completely unable to deal with any sort of tag. He's certainly turned that around since. A number of players have including Trengove. Those big names in that grouping were players who had either gone backwards or stagnated since the premiership. So there were big question marks over the perceived value going forward. I agree JJ has turned the corner. Dahl and Libba still question marks though

[kruder]

Does JJ's good finish to the year (when played in his preferred position) change you ranking of him? Cause I can't agree he belongs in that grouping.

Who has played better since 2016, JJ or Wood?

[Eastdog]

Yeah agree. The original grouping was done in August following our loss to Port Adelaide. At that stage JJ looked soft, uncompetitive and completely unable to deal with any sort of tag. He's certainly turned that around since. A number of players have including Trengove. Those big names in that grouping were players who had either gone backwards or stagnated since the premiership. So there were big question marks over the perceived value going forward. I agree JJ has turned the corner. Dahl and Libba still question marks though

Pretty good assessment there. Dahl looks to be on his way out and Libba has been frustrated by injury. Libba had a great 2018 pre-season until the injury so we need to see how he goes in 2019. I would think Libba is still around next year.

4 players gone. How many do you think will walk?

[Mofra]

Does JJ's good finish to the year (when played in his preferred position) change you ranking of him? Cause I can't agree he belongs in that grouping.
He's an outstanding rebounding backman, an adequate wingman or a poor forward. He finished the year in the backline and played very well.

Our best form for the year came when we started playing players in their best position. Funny that. I'd have two backline candidates well ahead of him as 'transition to mid/wing' options - Bailey Williams transitioned well despite good early season backline form, and Ed Richards looked good on a wing despite running out of steam towards the end of the year.

[ledge]

Morris just signed on another year so he is off any list of leaving or retiring.

[jeemak]

Who has played better since 2016, JJ or Wood?

I think they've both had times when they've been better than the other, and just as ordinary!

Last night I finally watched the weekend's game versus Richmond, and I thought that Wood showed glimpses of the best type of player he can be intercepting in all areas between wing and full back. He's elite when on song.

[hujsh]

I think they've both had times when they've been better than the other, and just as ordinary!

Last night I finally watched the weekend's game versus Richmond, and I thought that Wood showed glimpses of the best type of player he can be intercepting in all areas between wing and full back. He's elite when on song.

Wood was much better on the weekend than he's been most of the last 2 years.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Updated OP to keep track of those who are no longer at the club. 3 from the don't rate list, 1 from the Jury's still out and 1 from Finished

[BulldogBelle]

To track our progress. That's 3 of the don't rate list and 1 off the finished list

A Graders
Marcus Bontempelli
Jack Macrae

Rate
Aaron Naughton
Bailey Williams
Billy Gowers
Caleb Daniel
Dale Morris
Easton Wood
Ed Richards
Hayden Crozier
Josh Dunkley
Josh Schache
Lachie Hunter
Liam Picken
Matthew Suckling
Mitch Wallis
Patrick Lipinski
Tim English
Toby McLean
Zaine Cordy
Jason Johannisen

Don't rate
Fletcher Roberts
Jordan Roughead
Kieran Collins
Lin Jong
Lukas Webb
Mitch Honeychurch
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh
Roarke Smith
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell

Jury's still out
Bailey Dale
Brad Lynch
Callum Porter
Fergus Greene
Lewis Young
Luke Dahlhaus
Marcus Adams
Tom Boyd
Tom Liberatore
Jackson Trengove

Finished
Clay Smith
Jack Redpath
Tory Dickson

A brave list. I have to agree with most of it. I like the fact that we have a large amount of quality players there.

I think that Lewis Young will end up as one of our best players. How the hell can you give a game to Honeychurch instead of Lewis Young. Different sort of players for different roles I know, but crikey gee.

Brad Lynch has been a surprise packet. He had 2 good games with Footscray and then was promoted into the seniors where he showed some dash and flair. Mostly his flash play didn't come off but he seems to be ever improving.

Tom Boyd. Lots of people still see him as a full-forward. He is a ruckman and can be a very good one too. I think he will stay in the ruck.

Fletcher Roberts and Lucas Webb should have been delisted at least last year although I think that this has been Roberts' best year. How could they give a two year contract to Fletcher Roberts, the mind boggles at what their thought processes must be like. Webb has had enough chances.

Lin Jong should have been delisted. His only reliable trait was to be at the end of an attacking chain and screw it up. Everybody has now discovered that he has weak bones and he is just going to break some more. Our football department needs a huge kick in the backside.

Roarke Smith has so far proven to be injury prone and a one-trick pony. His trick is to take a high standing mark. He is not blessed with anything else that I can see. Why give him another contract. The mind spins.

I am expecting Bailey Dale to improve next year.

Callum Porter just doesn't get the ball enough. He plays in the centre but doesn't get mids' stats. He is lightly framed. I often sit near his dad watching him play for Footscray. Should be his last year next year unless he can improve significantly.

Fergus Greene needs to improve. I think that he will.

Adams is too injury prone.

Libba seems to be a bit reckless outside of footy. He will be good again if he can behave himself.

Trengove showed some improvement and may get better still.

It is good that we are going to rookie young 'Will Hayes'. At the very least he will be a good a reserve midfielder, a lot better than Honeychurch.

[SquirrelGrip]

It is good that we are going to rookie young 'Will Hayes'. At the very least he will be a good a reserve midfielder, a lot better than Honeychurch.

Have I missed this? How can we do this before the rookie draft?

[GVGjr]

Have I missed this? How can we do this before the rookie draft?

At this stage it's possibly more about our intention to rookie list him.

[SquirrelGrip]

At this stage it's possibly more about our intention to rookie list him.

But have we come out and announced this? Sure, it makes sense and follows on from Billy Gowers being under our eyes the previous year.

[Mantis]

I am expecting Bailey Dale to improve next year.



Why? Has shown no improvement in the past few years, is still a skinny runt, gets pushed off the ball far too easily and only gets a kick against poor opposition.

* This may or may not be based on personal opinion or perhaps I'm just following your lead

[hujsh]

Why? Has shown no improvement in the past few years, is still a skinny runt, gets pushed off the ball far too easily and only gets a kick against poor opposition.

* This may or may not be based on personal opinion or perhaps I'm just following your lead

I think he improved in 2017. Probably regressed some this year though

[bornadog]

I think he improved in 2017. Probably regressed some this year though

Do you think we just overrated him because he kicked a couple of goals? He is the same age as The Bont, ie 22 and will be 23 mid next year.

[The Doctor]

Why? Has shown no improvement in the past few years, is still a skinny runt, gets pushed off the ball far too easily and only gets a kick against poor opposition.

* This may or may not be based on personal opinion or perhaps I'm just following your lead

doesn't tackle and often seems to conveniently slip over when it's his turn to crack in or chase.

He would want to improve or he is a certainty to be delisted

[GVGjr]

But have we come out and announced this? Sure, it makes sense and follows on from Billy Gowers being under our eyes the previous year.

If we have given a commitment to Hayes (I'm not sure if we have or haven't) we could make it known we are going to rookie him on the proviso that he won't do medical testings with other sides. I don't think clubs would take the chance of selecting a player without him doing a medical.

That's all speculation though.

[Go_Dogs]

I think he improved in 2017. Probably regressed some this year though

He was one of the shining lights in 2017, but certainly regressed before his injury in 2018.

It's about getting him in the right role and I see that as ether a medium marking player who can play high, a wing or a running defender. He's never going to be a contested beast but if he can improve a little there he has enough tools with his kicking, nous and running to make the grade.

[Ozza]

If we have given a commitment to Hayes (I'm not sure if we have or haven't) we could make it known we are going to rookie him on the proviso that he won't do medical testings with other sides. I don't think clubs would take the chance of selecting a player without him doing a medical.

That's all speculation though.

Be crazy for a player to knock back medical testing elsewhere.
History is littered with players who thought a club was committed to taking them, where the club suddenly goes cold on them within days of the draft - for whatever reason.

[jeemak]

Be crazy for a player to knock back medical testing elsewhere.
History is littered with players who thought a club was committed to taking them, where the club suddenly goes cold on them within days of the draft - for whatever reason.

I'd certainly be advising him to get testing done with as many clubs as he can (providing he's healthy!), even more so if the Bulldogs are only offering up a rookie spot.

A club or two might have him pegged for a late main draft selection, after all.

[Mofra]

If we have given a commitment to Hayes (I'm not sure if we have or haven't) we could make it known we are going to rookie him on the proviso that he won't do medical testings with other sides. I don't think clubs would take the chance of selecting a player without him doing a medical.

That's all speculation though.
We wouldn't have been able to man Tory Dickson or BTC if VFL players regularly do that. Arguably, we would have missed out on Dahl as well (supposedly Geelong promised him a rookie spot).

[bulldogtragic]

from AFEL.com.au

Western Bulldogs (list analysis)

List changes: Premiership forward Luke Dahlhaus has already walked out on the club and is expected to take up a free-agency offer from Geelong, while third-year key defender Kieran Collins and rookie tall Nathan Mullenger-McHugh have been delisted. Flag stars Clay Smith and Shane Biggs have retired.

SEASON REVIEW Western Bulldogs

DEFENDERS
Key defenders: Marcus Adams, Zaine Cordy, Aaron Naughton, Fletcher Roberts, Jackson Trengove, Lewis Young
General defenders: Hayden Crozier, Jason Johannisen, Brad Lynch, Dale Morris, Ed Richards, Roarke Smith, Matt Suckling, Bailey Williams, Easton Wood

Summary: The Dogs have plenty of depth in key defenders and have a young and developing core of smaller backmen lead by skipper Wood and Dale Morris.

MIDFIELDERS
Midfielders: Marcus Bontempelli, Caleb Daniel, Josh Dunkley, Lachie Hunter, Lin Jong, Tom Liberatore, Jack Macrae, Toby McLean, Callum Porter, Mitch Wallis, Lukas Webb
Ruckmen: Tom Boyd, Tom Campbell, Tim English, Jordan Roughead

Summary: Father-son recruits Liberatore and Wallis remain unsigned but are likely to stay. Premiership star Roughead is likely to leave via free agency, while fellow ruckman Campbell will be traded or delisted.

FORWARDS
Midfielder/forwards: Mitch Honeychurch, Bailey Dale, Liam Picken
General forwards: Tory Dickson, Billy Gowers, Fergus Greene, Patrick Lipinski
Key forwards: Jack Redpath, Josh Schache

Summary: Redpath's knee problems are likely to see him retire, while Honeychurch is expected to seek a trade to Gold Coast. Picken has vowed to play on after his concussion issues over the past 18 months.

CONCLUSION

The Dogs have a young and well-balanced list but will look to inject some class into their midfield and forward line through the draft. Father-son prospect Rhylee West is a likely addition and he will complement the club's inside midfielders. Clever Richmond forward Sam Lloyd has been linked to the club to help their ongoing conversion woes. - Ryan Davidson

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Updated OP based on Redpath retirement

So far we are making good decisions

[bornadog]

Updated OP based on Redpath retirement

So far we are making good decisions

Dickson signed a new contract, so he is not finished yet.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Dickson signed a new contract, so he is not finished yet.

No he’s not, but back in August it certainly appeared that way, and this list is an opinion peice rather than fact. I still have doubts that his body can hold up and I think the club must as well if we are indeed after Sam lloyd.

[bornadog]

No he’s not, but back in August it certainly appeared that way, and this list is an opinion peice rather than fact. I still have doubts that his body can hold up and I think the club must as well if we are indeed after Sam lloyd.

I don't understand your logic. What is your definition of finished

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I don't understand your logic. What is your definition of finished

From the OP

Finished = Has either retired or don't see them getting back on the park or to potential due to injury

At Tory’s age, I just can’t see him being able to string enough games together to be the force he used to be. Ok he had that great game against north but then only lasted one more before succumbing to injury yet again

[GVGjr]

Assuming that we lose both Campbell and Roughead do we need to look at adding another ruckman during the trade period?
English will be our number one ruckman but I'm not convinced he can play a full season, Trengove will be the back-up but what if we need him in the backline and of course Boyd and even Schache will also be used. I think we will still need another option.

Thoughts?

[bulldogtragic]

Assuming that we lose both Campbell and Roughead do we need to look at adding another ruckman during the trade period?
English will be our number one ruckman but I'm not convinced he can play a full season, Trengove will be the back-up but what if we need him in the backline and of course Boyd and even Schache will also be used. I think we will still need another option.

Thoughts?

Yep. But Bevo doesn't seem to rate them, so there's little point in getting an expensive one. But there needs to be some depth in my opinion.

[GVGjr]

Yep. But Bevo doesn't seem to rate them, so there's little point in getting an expensive one. But there needs to be some depth in my opinion.

Perhaps we need a versatile tall that could also play in some other positions.
We could look at two options, a Zac Clarke type for a season or two until English is a bit stronger or a younger type from the state league or current draft class that could fill in for a few games at a pinch but taking a longer term view.
Is there even a slim chance we keep Roughead?

[bulldogtragic]

Perhaps we need a versatile tall that could also play in some other positions.
We could look at two options, a Zac Clarke type for a season or two until English is a bit stronger or a younger type from the state league or current draft class that could fill in for a few games at a pinch but taking a longer term view.

Yep. It depends on the rookie list strategy we will go with a little bit. Whether a young or state league ruckman is of more interest to us, so I'd have them on the rookie list. Or whether we have something like pick 100+ after the trade period, and we would prefer to fill that spot with a FA or DFA ruckman like Clarke rather than use the live pick.

Moving on Roughy & Campbell has stocks very thin. Bevo states publicly Boyd will be a gun KPF in the next couple of years - then he needs to play a lot more time there. If something happens to Morris or Adams injury wise, and/or Adams and Roberts get traded out, then we may need the experience of Trengove back for a chunk of the year when injuries hit, despite our conservative management of players. Then it's English and hopefully he stays fit. So we need to hedge with some ruck depth. It's just what type of ruck and on what list. I'm happy with either strategy as per above.

[Scraggers]

Given our dramatic drop-off from 2016 and the big names being thrown around this trade period, is it imperative that we draft a big name in Wingard or Sheils et cetera? Not only for our 2019 line-up but also for membership? In my opinion, losing a crowd favourite in Dahlhouse and seen to being weak during trade period could be detrimental to our membership and attendance in 2019 and beyond.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Assuming that we lose both Campbell and Roughead do we need to look at adding another ruckman during the trade period?
English will be our number one ruckman but I'm not convinced he can play a full season, Trengove will be the back-up but what if we need him in the backline and of course Boyd and even Schache will also be used. I think we will still need another option.

Thoughts?
English and Trengrove as a back up appeals as our best ruck combination. I would be inclined to retain Roughead as a back up ruck man. Boyd has failed to impress as a ruck man and still lacks the necessary skills to become a key forward. We still need a quality midfielder to match the superior mid fielders that was on show in the GF on Saturday.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Will be interesting to see how we juggle our list from an age demographic over the next 12 months.

Years left:
- Morris (1)
- Matthew Suckling (1-2)
- Liam Picken (1)
- Tory Dickson (1)
- Jordan Roughead (0?)
- Fletcher Roberts (0-1)
- Marcus Adams (0?)
- Tom Campbell (0?)
- Luke Dahlhaus (gone)
- Shane Biggs (gone)
- Jack Redpath (gone)
- Clay Smith (gone)

That's a really big chunk of a senior group. Whilst a couple are fringe (Roberts and Campbell) I think it's highly unlikely anyone from this list will be playing in 2020.

We probably need to keep Adams and Roughead unless we can find ready made replacements.

It reiterates to me that we need to pick up a few senior heads (Lloyd makes sense from this perspective) from other clubs as well as via state leagues.

If we are not careful and we trade out all of Dahl/Roughy/Adams, delist Roberts/Campbell and lose Morris/Dickson/Picken next year our list is criminally young.

[ledge]

Will be interesting to see how we juggle our list from an age demographic over the next 12 months.

Years left:
- Morris (1)
- Matthew Suckling (1-2)
- Liam Picken (1)
- Tory Dickson (1)
- Jordan Roughead (0?)
- Fletcher Roberts (0-1)
- Marcus Adams (0?)
- Tom Campbell (0?)
- Luke Dahlhaus (gone)
- Shane Biggs (gone)
- Jack Redpath (gone)
- Clay Smith (gone)

That's a really big chunk of a senior group. Whilst a couple are fringe (Roberts and Campbell) I think it's highly unlikely anyone from this list will be playing in 2020.

We probably need to keep Adams and Roughead unless we can find ready made replacements.

It reiterates to me that we need to pick up a few senior heads (Lloyd makes sense from this perspective) from other clubs as well as via state leagues.

If we are not careful and we trade out all of Dahl/Roughy/Adams, delist Roberts/Campbell and lose Morris/Dickson/Picken next year our list is criminally young.

Is it ? In two years time the Bont , Daniels, Cordy, Dunkley English, Naughton, Gowers etc will be In their prime.

[GVGjr]

Will be interesting to see how we juggle our list from an age demographic over the next 12 months.

Years left:
- Morris (1)
- Matthew Suckling (1-2)
- Liam Picken (1)
- Tory Dickson (1)
- Jordan Roughead (0?)
- Fletcher Roberts (0-1)
- Marcus Adams (0?)
- Tom Campbell (0?)
- Luke Dahlhaus (gone)
- Shane Biggs (gone)
- Jack Redpath (gone)
- Clay Smith (gone)

That's a really big chunk of a senior group. Whilst a couple are fringe (Roberts and Campbell) I think it's highly unlikely anyone from this list will be playing in 2020.

We probably need to keep Adams and Roughead unless we can find ready made replacements.

It reiterates to me that we need to pick up a few senior heads (Lloyd makes sense from this perspective) from other clubs as well as via state leagues.

If we are not careful and we trade out all of Dahl/Roughy/Adams, delist Roberts/Campbell and lose Morris/Dickson/Picken next year our list is criminally young.

Great observation TBB. The next 2 years are very important for us from a list management position. Good decisions need to be made. I'd hate to think in 2 years time we are explaining losses because of our inexperienced list like many did this year.

There are a few ways of looking at our list:
Draft and trade to address the the lack of experience by bringing in players like Wingard and Lloyd aiming for a quick bounce
Draft and trade for players with some experience that just need another season or two much like we did with Schache
Mine the state leagues for players with some experience
Do a bit of a combination of younger and older players

The concern for me though with the names you have mentioned is we don't appear to be prepared to cut into the list deep enough to make sure we have the right players to cover the likely retirements and delistings over the next 2 years

Sam Power has plenty of work to do

[hujsh]

So as things currently stand we're set to lose Dahl and possibly Adams (maybe Roughead) and are likely to get one or two Richmond VFL forwards.

Not great on paper. One upside is our good performances at the end of the year were all without Dahl or Adams (with the exception of Dahl vs Geelong)

[Ozza]

As long as we sign up the Bont on a long term deal, we can deal with the rest.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There has been a lot of discussion on WOOF regarding the state of our list. Some on here are optimistic, others not so much so i thought it'd be worthwhile to discuss where we see our list sits given performance to date.

Of course this is very subjective, but i have given my breakdown below. The categories are:

A graders = This player is elite
Rate = I rate this player either currently of with a view to the future
Don't rate = I either never rated this player or don't rate them going forward
Jury's still out = Can be one of two things. Either haven't seen enough of them to know one way or the other OR they are a player who has previously played at a high level but is no longer playing to that level for unknown reasons and the jury is still out as to whether they will recapture that form. A good comparison is Biggs and Dahlhaus. I put Biggs in the don't rate category as i don't see him getting back to 2016 form and he didn't have enough runs on the board to suggest he's capable of finding form. Dahl on the other hand has played at a higher level for longer so i see him as someone who could eventually recapture that form.
Finished = Has either retired or don't see them getting back on the park or to potential due to injury

A Graders
Marcus Bontempelli
Jack Macrae

Rate
Aaron Naughton
Bailey Williams
Billy Gowers
Caleb Daniel
Dale Morris
Easton Wood
Ed Richards
Hayden Crozier
Josh Dunkley
Josh Schache
Lachie Hunter
Liam Picken
Matthew Suckling
Mitch Wallis
Patrick Lipinski
Tim English
Toby McLean
Zaine Cordy
Jason Johannisen

Don't rate
Fletcher Roberts
Jordan Roughead
Kieran Collins
Lin Jong
Lukas Webb
Mitch Honeychurch
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh
Roarke Smith
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell

Jury's still out
Bailey Dale
Brad Lynch
Callum Porter
Fergus Greene
Lewis Young
Luke Dahlhaus
Marcus Adams
Tom Boyd
Tom Liberatore
Jackson Trengove

Finished
Clay Smith
Jack Redpath
Tory Dickson

So out of 44 players, I:

Rate: 20
Don't Rate: 11
Jury's still out: 10
Finished: 3

So i am happy with 45% of our list. Questions marks remain over 23% of our list and i don't rate a quarter of our list. Interestingly of the players i don't rate, half of them are talls.

I'm bullish of our younger players but we clearly have a lot of players who are potential A graders but have question marks over their future. I think the list is in decent shape and can be turned around pretty quickly....provided the players can actually stay on the park. But it's not as bleak as some make out.

OP updated with departures of Rough and Adams.

We've cut from the right categories, but i would have liked us to be a little more ruthless in that don't rate category.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

With all due respect, we need to cut Honeychurch - would be negligent to keep him another year.

[GVGjr]

With all due respect, we need to cut Honeychurch - would be negligent to keep him another year.

I agree, it's not a slight on the player because I'm sure he is a hard worker but we have given him enough of a chance and need to try and unearth a player. Perhaps there will be a delisting at another club that will suit us

[ledge]

I agree, it's not a slight on the player because I'm sure he is a hard worker but we have given him enough of a chance and need to try and unearth a player. Perhaps there will be a delisting at another club that will suit us

Could be Hayes for Honeychurch.

[Testekill]

Could be Hayes for Honeychurch.

My big two are Cavarra & Hayes. I'd also like Gibbons but I think he might be a touch too short to play predominately inside mid at AFL level. The other two at least either have a strong forward craft or play more on the outside.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I agree. Honey has had enough time to prove his worth and unfortunately he just hasn’t made it. We’re better of giving an unknown a chance to shine.

Would love to get Cavarra

[bulldogtragic]

Power said the Campbell is on the list. Wasn't a positive endorsement. Would we risk losing Campbell to another team by delisting him, and rookie listing him?

The upshot is another spot on draft night to get a Cavarra or Hayes with a pick near the 60's. With 7 & 32-35 on live picks plus West & Khamis it looks like the four spots are taken up here. If we want another spot, the obvious option looks like Campbell to the rookie list and if we miss him, then going after a Zac Clarke in the rookie draft (whose not worse than Campbell).

Small risk, medium reward.

Risk vs Reward

[bulldogsthru&thru]

There has been a lot of discussion on WOOF regarding the state of our list. Some on here are optimistic, others not so much so i thought it'd be worthwhile to discuss where we see our list sits given performance to date.

Of course this is very subjective, but i have given my breakdown below. The categories are:

A graders = This player is elite
Rate = I rate this player either currently of with a view to the future
Don't rate = I either never rated this player or don't rate them going forward
Jury's still out = Can be one of two things. Either haven't seen enough of them to know one way or the other OR they are a player who has previously played at a high level but is no longer playing to that level for unknown reasons and the jury is still out as to whether they will recapture that form. A good comparison is Biggs and Dahlhaus. I put Biggs in the don't rate category as i don't see him getting back to 2016 form and he didn't have enough runs on the board to suggest he's capable of finding form. Dahl on the other hand has played at a higher level for longer so i see him as someone who could eventually recapture that form.
Finished = Has either retired or don't see them getting back on the park or to potential due to injury

A Graders
Marcus Bontempelli
Jack Macrae

Rate
Aaron Naughton
Bailey Williams
Billy Gowers
Caleb Daniel
Dale Morris
Easton Wood
Ed Richards
Hayden Crozier
Josh Dunkley
Josh Schache
Lachie Hunter
Liam Picken
Matthew Suckling
Mitch Wallis
Patrick Lipinski
Tim English
Toby McLean
Zaine Cordy
Jason Johannisen

Don't rate
Fletcher Roberts
Jordan Roughead
Kieran Collins
Lin Jong
Lukas Webb
Mitch Honeychurch
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh
Roarke Smith
Shane Biggs
Tom Campbell

Jury's still out
Bailey Dale
Brad Lynch
Callum Porter
Fergus Greene
Lewis Young
Luke Dahlhaus
Marcus Adams
Tom Boyd
Tom Liberatore
Jackson Trengove

Finished
Clay Smith
Jack Redpath
Tory Dickson

So out of 44 players, I:

Rate: 21
Don't Rate: 10
Jury's still out: 10
Finished: 3

So i am happy with 45% of our list. Questions marks remain over 23% of our list and i don't rate a quarter of our list. Interestingly of the players i don't rate, half of them are talls.

I'm bullish of our younger players but we clearly have a lot of players who are potential A graders but have question marks over their future. I think the list is in decent shape and can be turned around pretty quickly....provided the players can actually stay on the park. But it's not as bleak as some make out.

Updated OP after Campbell and Honey delistings.

So we cut the Don't Rate category from 10 to 4 and the Jury's still out from 10 to 8. That's a decent turnover.

So going back to our rock bottom point after our loss to Port Adelaide in Ballarat. This led to quite a bit of discussion on the state of our list and our lack of depth and talent. I don't think it's as bad as our performances suggested. Looking at our list now, there are really only 4 players who aren't really rated (again this is subjective) and another 8 who need to prove us their worth. I think that's a solid position to be in. Granted a lot of the players we rate still have room for improvement, but 2019 hopefully is an encouraging year.

Let's hope in 2019 we don't add to that group of players where the jury is still out. In fact, i hope we can reclassify some into the Rate category. I'm looking particularly at Lynch, Dale and Trengove but mostly Boyd and especially Libba.

[AshMac]

Updated OP after Campbell and Honey delistings.

So we cut the Don't Rate category from 10 to 4 and the Jury's still out from 10 to 8. That's a decent turnover.

So going back to our rock bottom point after our loss to Port Adelaide in Ballarat. This led to quite a bit of discussion on the state of our list and our lack of depth and talent. I don't think it's as bad as our performances suggested. Looking at our list now, there are really only 4 players who aren't really rated (again this is subjective) and another 8 who need to prove us their worth. I think that's a solid position to be in. Granted a lot of the players we rate still have room for improvement, but 2019 hopefully is an encouraging year.

Let's hope in 2019 we don't add to that group of players where the jury is still out. In fact, i hope we can reclassify some into the Rate category. I'm looking particularly at Lynch, Dale and Trengove but mostly Boyd and especially Libba.

Would be great to have Libba, Trengove, Boyd and Dale all playing good consistent footy next year.

[Sedat]

Let's hope in 2019 we don't add to that group of players where the jury is still out. In fact, i hope we can reclassify some into the Rate category. I'm looking particularly at Lynch, Dale and Trengove but mostly Boyd and especially Libba.
I’d have Libba as elite. He was comfortably our 2nd best player 2 years ago. I think people forget how amazing his vision is in the clinches, how great his hands are in traffic and how good his general decision making is (on the ground at least).

[bulldogsthru&thru]

I’d have Libba as elite. He was comfortably our 2nd best player 2 years ago. I think people forget how amazing his vision is in the clinches, how great his hands are in traffic and how good his general decision making is (on the ground at least).

For sure we know he's got elite ability. But this assessment was more based on performance over a recent period of extended time rather than their career as a whole. And Libba's 2017 as a whole was very underwhelming. To the point where he needs to prove he can re-establish that pre-2017 form in order to stay on any clubs list.

I suppose this list was born out of our unique problem post 2016 where we had so many players we all know have great talent but were severely under performing. Some for 2 years and to the point where we were wondering if they'd ever rediscover a remote semblance of their former self.

[GVGjr]

One thing that tended to irritate me last year was the excuses many came up with to explain our poor form last year.
Week after week it was the age and games played profile that was offered up to explain our losses.
Now there is some merit in that but I think it's typically more about effort and talent more than age and experience which was the focus

Anyway Champion Data (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/hawthorn-and-collingwood-will-enter-the-2019-season-with-the-oldest-lists-in-the-afl/news-story/f4e3bb2f9ed1b0603f33f0b515f9cfdb) have analysed the lists of all clubs and we are rated 11th in games played and our age profile. Perhaps we could have looked to improve that during the drafts and trade periods but I think our focus was more on bringing in talent and good attitudes.

Surprisingly we are rated 15th as a playing list but substantially ahead of 16th placed Carlton.
By position we are rated 8th in defence, 15th in the forward line and 7th as a midfield

Clearly there is plenty of work to do but I think our list is a bit better than CD has rated it.

[bulldogtragic]

One thing that tended to irritate me last year was the excuses many came up with to explain our poor form last year.
Week after week it was the age and games played profile that was offered up to explain our losses.
Now there is some merit in that but I think it's typically more about effort and talent more than age and experience which was the focus

Anyway Champion Data (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/hawthorn-and-collingwood-will-enter-the-2019-season-with-the-oldest-lists-in-the-afl/news-story/f4e3bb2f9ed1b0603f33f0b515f9cfdb) have analysed the lists of all clubs and we are rated 11th in games played and our age profile. Perhaps we could have looked to improve that during the drafts and trade periods but I think our focus was more on bringing in talent and good attitudes.

Surprisingly we are rated 15th as a playing list but substantially ahead of 16th placed Carlton.
By position we are rated 8th in defence, 15th in the forward line and 7th as a midfield

Clearly there is plenty of work to do but I think our list is a bit better than CD has rated it.

I wonder what CD rated us in 2016? I agree that effort beats experience in most situations. Give me a Naughton or Richards busting their guts over Dahl & Stringer cruising. I think Cavarra & Hayes will be certainly bringing that to the side, but not in the CD data.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

One thing that tended to irritate me last year was the excuses many came up with to explain our poor form last year.
Week after week it was the age and games played profile that was offered up to explain our losses.
Now there is some merit in that but I think it's typically more about effort and talent more than age and experience which was the focus

Anyway Champion Data (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/hawthorn-and-collingwood-will-enter-the-2019-season-with-the-oldest-lists-in-the-afl/news-story/f4e3bb2f9ed1b0603f33f0b515f9cfdb) have analysed the lists of all clubs and we are rated 11th in games played and our age profile. Perhaps we could have looked to improve that during the drafts and trade periods but I think our focus was more on bringing in talent and good attitudes.

Surprisingly we are rated 15th as a playing list but substantially ahead of 16th placed Carlton.
By position we are rated 8th in defence, 15th in the forward line and 7th as a midfield

Clearly there is plenty of work to do but I think our list is a bit better than CD has rated it.

I did see that ranking and was quite surprised by our low overall ranking. Although I have no idea on what the ranking is actually based on, I still think it’s inaccurate to measure potential success on pure stats.

I think we’ve done a pretty good job or purging those players that weren’t up to it and also those that weren’t putting in the hard yards. I agree it looks like our focus this offseason has been to recruit players with excellent work rate. At the end of the day, it was that work rate that won us the flag so hopefully we take steps in the right direction and by August 2019 our outlook on our list is looking much rosier

[hujsh]

CD can only tell you about the past. Based on the last two years I'm not surprised our forward line is so poorly rated. That doesn't mean we can't improve this year

[Scraggers]

One thing that tended to irritate me last year was the excuses many came up with to explain our poor form last year.
Week after week it was the age and games played profile that was offered up to explain our losses.
Now there is some merit in that but I think it's typically more about effort and talent more than age and experience which was the focus

Anyway Champion Data (https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/hawthorn-and-collingwood-will-enter-the-2019-season-with-the-oldest-lists-in-the-afl/news-story/f4e3bb2f9ed1b0603f33f0b515f9cfdb) have analysed the lists of all clubs and we are rated 11th in games played and our age profile. Perhaps we could have looked to improve that during the drafts and trade periods but I think our focus was more on bringing in talent and good attitudes.

Surprisingly we are rated 15th as a playing list but substantially ahead of 16th placed Carlton.
By position we are rated 8th in defence, 15th in the forward line and 7th as a midfield

Clearly there is plenty of work to do but I think our list is a bit better than CD has rated it.

There's something wrong with the data I believe ...
West Coast Eagles as reigning Premiers rated :-
5th Age
8th Games played
4th Finals played
5th Defence
8th Forward line
15th Midfield

11th overall

:confused::confused:

[Axe Man]

All you need to know about CD's ratings can be summarised in one fact: they rate Liam Jones and Majak Daw as an elite key defenders.

[Twodogs]

All you need to know about CD's ratings can be summarised in one fact: they rate Liam Jones and Majak Daw as an elite key defenders.


The two of them combined? It sort of makes sense I guess!

[Axe Man]

The two of them combined? It sort of makes sense I guess!

Nope, Daw 4 and Jones 8!

They certainly were elite at creating scoring opportunities for us when we played them this year.

[Ghost Dog]

All you need to know about CD's ratings can be summarised in one fact: they rate Liam Jones and Majak Daw as an elite key defenders.

Well for all their toil, they have something to show for it. Good luck to them.