Current depth of the playing list

[Dancin' Douggy]

DEPTH AT THE BULLDOGS.

I’ve been following the bulldogs for a looooooong time like many people here on woof.

I don’t believe I can recall us ever having so much depth of talent before.

Nathan Burke rued our lack of ‘superstars’, and then we went on to win a flag.
We did have stars, they were just too young to be considered stars yet.
And I believe our list has improved since then. I MEAN NAUGHTON JUST WIPES THE FLOOR with all of the following. Hamling, Fletcher, Dad, The specimen…..etc. And let’s face it, Richards is a class above Dalhaus…… several postcodes of class actually. Dalhaus was a much loved and committed player but he totally stank last year. TOTALLY. And Stringer of course is one of the players who WAS a young superstar in the making. Gowers is now doing pretty much what Stringer was for us then………….with a little less ‘sizzle’ of course.

I’m optimistic that we are close to doing it again. A flag I mean.

As I try and name the best 22 for 2019, there are certain positions that are easy to lock down, but there are some positions that have a ‘conga line’ of applicants. A conga line of seriously capable players.

I must admit a lot of my optimism revolves around Tim English, a player I believe will be THE dominant ruckman for the next decade. We simply have to keep him. He releases Boyd and Trengove to be key position players. And suddenly we have a strong solid structure end to end.

So here’s my starting 22.

WOOD. NAUGHTON. MORRIS.

JOHANISSEN. TRENGOVE. SUCKLING.

HUNTER. LIBERATORE. RICHARDS.

MACLEAN. BOYD. LLOYD

GOWERS. SCHACHE. DICKSON.

FOLL. ENGLISH. BONTEMPELLI. MACRAE.

INT. Wow……….where do you start?
HERE GOES.

INT. DANIEL. WALLIS. DUNKLEY. CORDY.

Now naming that bench wasn’t easy because here’s the players who I believe all have a legitimate claim to a senior spot. Most of these players would walk into a senior AFL team

DURYEA, (Premiership player……. Proven performer at senior level, certainly no weak link in the chain if he gets named)
CROZIER, (Just got better and better for us last year. maybe deserves the half back flank spot over Suckling, but Suckling was playing so well before his Achilles I’ve given Suckling the gig., Crozier is easily good enough to make the 22, maybe over Cordy, but Cordy has the height).
PICKEN. Walk up starting 18 in a normal world, but after a year out……..probably needs a run in the seconds for a month (ish). And I do worry about him playing at all, for his own sake.
BAILEY WILLIAMS. A genuine talent, but who does he replace?.........Another one in the line for Sucklings spot.
BRAD LYNCH Ditto. A genuine talent, but who does he replace?.........Another one in the line for Sucklings spot.
BAILEY DALE. Showed some big signs at the end of 2017. Seemed to be an emerging leader to me, 2018 wrecked by injuries……..but another proven senior contributor knocking on the door.
BAILEY SMITH. Probably not a straight up start with the Achilles………..but probably good enough to force his way in somehow when fully fit. Once again…….. who does he force out.
LIPINSKI. Looks a very good long term prospect
JONG. Can hold his own at senior level.
And maybe even FERGUS GREENE. Who really showed some signs towards the end of last year.

FLETCHER ROBERTS and ROURKE SMITH both have senior experience and though they’re probably both unlikely to be on the list next year they can perform a role at senior level.


That’s some serious depth.

[Mofra]

We have depth in the running types, not so much with talls but it was our running depth last year which was a serious problem in the middle of the season.

Trengove has trained all summer with the rucks and played his best football last year as a ruck. He's no CHB, Cordy will be.
I'm not sure we see Boyd at all this year sadly, and with Schache English & Trengove there's no place in the best 22 for him anyway.

Crozier plays.

[Dancin' Douggy]

We have depth in the running types, not so much with talls but it was our running depth last year which was a serious problem in the middle of the season.

Trengove has trained all summer with the rucks and played his best football last year as a ruck. He's no CHB, Cordy will be.
I'm not sure we see Boyd at all this year sadly, and with Schache English & Trengove there's no place in the best 22 for him anyway.

Crozier plays.

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of Trengove.
He won a best and fairest at Port Adelaide as an (and I quote from the AFL season guide 2012) ..."elite defender who can help out in the ruck"

All the descriptions of him around his draft and early years were of him being a key defender.

I think he's playing ruck for us simply because Bevo didn't rate any of our other ruckmen.
At 197 cm he's not really tall enough to compete with the genuine ruckmen out there long term..

I think he's just a finger in the dike 'til English is ready to take over. A bit of footy polyfilla.
I think he would be great as a permanent CHB. I also think Cordy is slightly too short and lean to be that big key defender.

I do agree with you that Crozier should play, but who do you kick out for him?

Maybe Boyd is the one who won't be playing?

[hujsh]

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of Trengove.
He won a best and fairest at Port Adelaide as an (and I quote from the AFL season guide 2012) ..."elite defender who can help out in the ruck"

All the descriptions of him around his draft and early years were of him being a key defender.

I think he's playing ruck for us simply because Bevo didn't rate any of our other ruckmen.
At 197 cm he's not really tall enough to compete with the genuine ruckmen out there long term..

I think he's just a finger in the dike 'til English is ready to take over. A bit of footy polyfilla.
I think he would be great as a permanent CHB. I also think Cordy is slightly too short and lean to be that big key defender.

I do agree with you that Crozier should play, but who do you kick out for him?

Maybe Boyd is the one who won't be playing?

Trengrove was a defender but is a bit slow for it now. He can take the job in a pinch or if the matchup is right but he's not first choice.

Cordy has grown to proper KPD height and is probably taller than Naughton.

[bornadog]

All the descriptions of him around his draft and early years were of him being a key defender.

I think he's playing ruck for us simply because Bevo didn't rate any of our other ruckmen.
At 197 cm he's not really tall enough to compete with the genuine ruckmen out there long term..

When Port had a few ruckman injured, Trengove ended up playing in the ruck for the whole year and did very well. Bevo merely used him when he needed a ruckman and knew Trengove had played that role,

[Dry Rot]

Our ruck depth is now dodgy and we have no depth at all with tall forwards and defenders.

[soupman]

I think he's our ruck.

When he first arrived he trained and played all preseason as a forward/ruck, but due to injuries and inexperience found himself playing as a key defender for the first half of the year, where he was fine. Uninspiring, but fine.

The second half of the year we swung him into what i believe was the role intended (except with possibly more emphasis on ruck than intended) and he performed better than any other ruckman on our list aside from flashes from English. Funnily enough him playing as a competitive ruck who could contribute around the ground coincided with our improvement.

And now people want to put him in defence again?

Besides, where does he fit? We already have Cordy, Naughton, Morris and Wood as locks for our best 22 and they are all tall types with little hurt factor. We can't possibly cram Trengove down there to be mediocre again.

So that leaves two options, ruck/forward or forward/ruck.

I think he is our main man. It works on a number of levels.

English is clearly going to play, and should. And the club clearly rates him as being able to play anywhere. Initially he lined up on a wing, and he has had promising moments as a key forward. I have greater hopes for him there than I do Boyd, last year they both struggled to hold marks as key targets but you can see unlike Boyd English's biggest problem is strength in the marking contest, his technique is fine and I believe he will grow into the role.

I think we try to play Trengove 60% ruck and resting forward, with English covering the other 40%, while spending time as a key forward who can work his way up the ground.

It means Trengove can be the grunt ruck who breaks even at worst with the opposition ruck, is competitive everywhere and does all the heavy lifting. Up forward we have two mobile talls who can use the ball well up the field in Schache and English, and English when rucking either gets to go against a second ruck who is either a liability up forward or a liability in the ruck.

So basically i question why people here seem keen to send Trengove to a position where we don't need him, don't really want him and where by playing him there it would be to the detriment of the forward half of the ground, forcing us to either have just one key forward or play Boyd is far inferior than Trengove in the ruck.

And thats not even taking into account all the other threads lamenting our lack of rucks.

[bornadog]

Our ruck depth is now dodgy and we have no depth at all with tall forwards and defenders.

In our defence we have Naughton, Cordy, Young and Roberts - I think we are covered.

For tall forwards we have Schache and an injured Boyd - plus the resting rucks.

With Boyd looking like he will be out for awhile, Rucks are a little thin and the pressure will be on Sweet as the replacement.

[BornInDroopSt'54]

Great post DD and great team selected. I've got to agree that the depth of this group is great and competition for spots is hot.
I like the idea of Trengove at CHB with Cordy as backup. With JJ, Suckling and onballers to initiate attack from defence. Your team backs our homegrown players above our imports with them as backups which speaks well of our development.

[Mofra]

Great post DD and great team selected. I've got to agree that the depth of this group is great and competition for spots is hot.
I like the idea of Trengove at CHB with Cordy as backup. With JJ, Suckling and onballers to initiate attack from defence. Your team backs our homegrown players above our imports with them as backups which speaks well of our development.
I think we'll try and push JJ and Suckling up a little to be in the middle of the scoring chain rather than in deep defence starting it.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them rotate on the wing at times with Hunter and Richards.

Wood and Crozier have shown real signs at being medium defenders who can intercept, with them there was can get away with only two genuine KPDs allowing Morris to play lockdown and give us another small rebounder to play in the last spot (JJ/Daniel/Duryea/Richards can rotate there).

Some of our F50 problems can be helped by better F50 entry.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Our ruck depth is now dodgy and we have no depth at all with tall forwards and defenders.

yes that's true. Lewis Young is pretty much our only tall depth

[BornInDroopSt'54]

As Tom Hafey said: Its your six worst players who win you the premiership, so our depth bodes well.

[Axe Man]

yes that's true. Lewis Young is pretty much our only tall depth

Fletcher Roberts is the very definition of depth.

[Dancin' Douggy]

Fletcher Roberts is the very definition of depth.

of course. he is depth personified!
I guess Lewis Young was the only tall 'depth' I didn't cover in my post.

[Eastdog]

That’s a strong interchange bench DD.

All potentially walk up starts. Bevo will select players who deserve it based on their form as we know. Happy Wallis stayed. He is one who embodies the Bulldog spirit. Hoping to see Jack Macrae get more involved on the scoreboard kicking more goals this season otherwise Jack has been excellent.

Important year coming for Bailey Dale and Lewis Young - he had a great debut.

Looking forward to watching Libba back carving it up in the midfieild

[GVGjr]

I think we'll try and push JJ and Suckling up a little to be in the middle of the scoring chain rather than in deep defence starting it.
I wouldn't be surprised to see them rotate on the wing at times with Hunter and Richards.

Wood and Crozier have shown real signs at being medium defenders who can intercept, with them there was can get away with only two genuine KPDs allowing Morris to play lockdown and give us another small rebounder to play in the last spot (JJ/Daniel/Duryea/Richards can rotate there).

Some of our F50 problems can be helped by better F50 entry.

I know Wood's best football is pretty decent but he hasn't actually played good football for about 2 years. A few games here or there but he's been disappointing for whatever reasons. Unless he bounces back this year we could have a sluggish back 6 given Naughton and Cordy are just decent kicks and Morris and Wood don't provide a lot of drive. A lot will fall onto the smaller defenders to create some run out of the backline.

[bornadog]

I know Wood's best football is pretty decent but he hasn't actually played good football for about 2 years. A few games here or there but he's been disappointing for whatever reasons. Unless he bounces back this year we could have a sluggish back 6 given Naughton and Cordy are just decent kicks and Morris and Wood don't provide a lot of drive. A lot will fall onto the smaller defenders to create some run out of the backline.

As long as we don't expect Wood to play on the Buddy types or be switched to the forward line, he can get back to his better football. This might be his first pre-season for awhile where he hasn't had major injury concerns.

[GVGjr]

As long as we don't expect Wood to play on the Buddy types or be switched to the forward line, he can get back to his better football. This might be his first pre-season for awhile where he hasn't had major injury concerns.

I hope you're correct but I think he had an injury free pre-season last year and just failed miserably to fire as a forward because he doesn't have a great feel for the game and while he was a bit better as a defender he didn't play a lot of good football last year.

While you don't want him to play against the likes of Buddy, you have also expressed that we have enough cover for tall defenders. If that depth thins out for any reason like form or injuries it will certainly fall to the likes of Morris and Wood to play against the bigger guys.

Wood has some noticeable limitations, many believe he can't play forward, many also believe he can't play against taller players in the back line and we know that he isn't a great kick and he doesn't provide a lot of dash from the back half.
His best football apparently when he can zone off and be an intercept mark which may not always suit us.

I really hope he gets back to his 2016 form.

[Mofra]

I know Wood's best football is pretty decent but he hasn't actually played good football for about 2 years. A few games here or there but he's been disappointing for whatever reasons. Unless he bounces back this year we could have a sluggish back 6 given Naughton and Cordy are just decent kicks and Morris and Wood don't provide a lot of drive. A lot will fall onto the smaller defenders to create some run out of the backline.
I really think he was mishandled last year - all pre-season as a forward then after round 2 thrown back.
One pre-season report suggested he wasn't noticeable which is not a positive but considering the 'team' nature of defence and that one wing is generally regarded as the defensive wing and one the more attacking we can generally get the ball into the hands of our good users.

[Axe Man]

As long as we don't expect Wood to play on the Buddy types or be switched to the forward line, he can get back to his better football. This might be his first pre-season for awhile where he hasn't had major injury concerns.

I thought Wood's game on Buddy at Etihad early last season was one of his best for the year. Buddy is one of the bigger forwards that Wood can actually play on if required.

[bornadog]

I thought Wood's game on Buddy at Etihad early last season was one of his best for the year. Buddy is one of the bigger forwards that Wood can actually play on if required.

You mean the game where Buddy had 16 disposals, 10 marks and kicked 3.4

[The Pie Man]

You mean the game where Buddy had 16 disposals, 10 marks and kicked 3.4

Could've been worse...

[bornadog]

While you don't want him to play against the likes of Buddy, you have also expressed that we have enough cover for tall defenders. If that depth thins out for any reason like form or injuries it will certainly fall to the likes of Morris and Wood to play against the bigger guys.

Morris and Wood have been forced to play on talls because in the past we just didn't have any players of size in the backline. With Naughton, Cordy, Young and Roberts as the backup, I believe we are covered.


Wood has some noticeable limitations, many believe he can't play forward, many also believe he can't play against taller players in the back line and we know that he isn't a great kick and he doesn't provide a lot of dash from the back half.
His best football apparently when he can zone off and be an intercept mark which may not always suit us.

We know he is not a forward and shouldn't come into the discussion. Whilst he can play on talls, he shouldn't have to as it restricts his normal intercept, and running off the backline. I dispute he isn't a great kick. Wood can thump the ball along way:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a-18bAI2EQ

I recall prior to 2016, Wood was at his best when he bounced and ran the ball out of the backline.

[Mantis]

I hope you're correct but I think he had an injury free pre-season last year and just failed miserably to fire as a forward because he doesn't have a great feel for the game and while he was a bit better as a defender he didn't play a lot of good football last year.

While you don't want him to play against the likes of Buddy, you have also expressed that we have enough cover for tall defenders. If that depth thins out for any reason like form or injuries it will certainly fall to the likes of Morris and Wood to play against the bigger guys.

Wood has some noticeable limitations, many believe he can't play forward, many also believe he can't play against taller players in the back line and we know that he isn't a great kick and he doesn't provide a lot of dash from the back half.
His best football apparently when he can zone off and be an intercept mark which may not always suit us.

I really hope he gets back to his 2016 form.

Was his 2016 form even that good?

He had an exceptional year in 2015 which saw him win AA selection, but I thought his form dropped off a fair bit in 2016... maybe the extra responsibility of being stand-in captain affected his play, but he wasn't as effective or influential during our rise to eventually winning the flag.

[Axe Man]

You mean the game where Buddy had 16 disposals, 10 marks and kicked 3.4

Yep, the same game where Wood had 18 disposals, more touches means he was the better player right? Come on BAD, stats only tell half the story, you're better than that. He did a good job that day which was widely recognised. If Buddy is on then all anyone can do is limit the damage.

I don't think anyone would choose Wood an ideal matchup against Buddy, but it's not a terrible matchup for us. Buddy mostly relies on his mobility and running, as opposed to one on one marking strength, so Wood can compete with him if required.

[bornadog]

Just for those who forget how good Wood can play. Let's hope he reaches these heights again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWZBJiZ3QvI&t=31s

[GVGjr]

Morris and Wood have been forced to play on talls because in the past we just didn't have any players of size in the backline. With Naughton, Cordy, Young and Roberts as the backup, I believe we are covered.

We know he is not a forward and shouldn't come into the discussion. Whilst he can play on talls, he shouldn't have to as it restricts his normal intercept, and running off the backline. I dispute he isn't a great kick. Wood can thump the ball along way:

I recall prior to 2016, Wood was at his best when he bounced and ran the ball out of the backline.

Based on how you are describing him, Wood must be one of the more limited players on the list that only performs well in very specific circumstances. We seem to applaud Bevo for wanting versatile players on the list but as long as it doesn't apply to Wood.
I don't agree that he shouldn't be measured as a forward, he trained for the position and failed badly and that shouldn't be forgotten and to me it underlines his limitations. As for his running off the backline you described above that was from a fair while ago and he just doesn't get enough of the ball to say it's a strength of his.

Thumping kicks aren't necessarily great kicks. For a mid sized defender that can play well in certain circumstances but not all we need him to provide run and clean skills and he hasn't for a long while. Mantis is right, 2016 wasn't a great year for him either but probably better than his 2017 and 2018 form.

There is a reason why we have targeted the likes of Suckling, Crozier, Richards, and Duryea in recent years and it's because their kicking skills are a strength and provide a contrast with Morris and Wood.

Has there been anything in the off season to suggest that he will get back to his 2015 form?

[mjp]

Has there been anything in the off season to suggest that he will get back to his 2015 form?

I agree with a lot of what you are saying...and the answer to this question is 'probably not'. But what are you gonna do? He's the captain of the footy club. It isn't like he wont play every week...

To me he has always been 'athlete/footballer' who has been at his best when able to sit behind the ball and use his terrific hand-skills and ability to judge the ball in flight to be an intercept player (choosing either to mark or spoil). The challenge he has always had is being involved in attacking chains outside of those defensive intercepts...hence his possession counts is generally pretty low.

He needs to play in the back half and be prepared to play on both talls and smalls...which I think he is up for (and capable of). The coaching team need to find a way to make it work. He is an excellent leader (by all reports), is clearly heart and soul, courageous and a very good overhead mark. I understand your concerns about lack of impact with the ball in hand...but that I guess is what the Crozier's of this world are around for.

[GVGjr]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying...and the answer to this question is 'probably not'. But what are you gonna do? He's the captain of the footy club. It isn't like he wont play every week...

To me he has always been 'athlete/footballer' who has been at his best when able to sit behind the ball and use his terrific hand-skills and ability to judge the ball in flight to be an intercept player (choosing either to mark or spoil). The challenge he has always had is being involved in attacking chains outside of those defensive intercepts...hence his possession counts is generally pretty low.

He needs to play in the back half and be prepared to play on both talls and smalls...which I think he is up for (and capable of). The coaching team need to find a way to make it work. He is an excellent leader (by all reports), is clearly heart and soul, courageous and a very good overhead mark. I understand your concerns about lack of impact with the ball in hand...but that I guess is what the Crozier's of this world are around for.

I genuinely get that but he is clearly being given a free pass on any reasonable level of scrutiny of performance over a long period and while many will call out the limitations of others, Wood remains our club's version of teflon.
No doubt he is a good bloke and leader and that really isn't in question for me but the suggestions that he shouldn't play on the taller players I think really disadvantages our team because he just isn't good enough to provide run and carry like so many others we have on our list.
I think we need 3 smaller skillful guys and that comes from Crozier, JJ, Suckling and Duryea (if I conceded that we have to play Richard elsewhere) and 3 taller players to cover the opposition talls'. To me that means Wood has to be able to match-up on some of the opposition taller guys not always looking for specific match-ups that allow him to zone off.

I really like Easton Wood but I doubt there have been many others that escape the scrutiny like he does.

[GVGjr]

Morris and Wood have been forced to play on talls because in the past we just didn't have any players of size in the backline. With Naughton, Cordy, Young and Roberts as the backup, I believe we are covered.


I think we all concede that both Morris and Wood had to play tall at times last year but this year you don't think they should have to.
And yet we also had Adams and Trengove playing there at various times but now Adams is gone and because of Boyds back injury and with Rougheads departure Trengove will have to cover the ruckman/forward positions. Even Roughead played a game or two down back as well.
So if I'm reading this correctly in terms of options we are 2 KP defensive players down on last year but we still have it covered even though we didn't have it covered last year by having to play the likes of Wood on Buddy?

[Dry Rot]

I think we all concede that both Morris and Wood had to play tall at times last year but this year you don't think they should have to.
And yet we also had Adams and Trengove playing there at various times but now Adams is gone and because of Boyds back injury and with Rougheads departure Trengove will have to cover the ruckman/forward positions.


Is it just me, or does anyone else have trouble remembering that Adams played for us?

So many games out injured.

I saw his name the other day in relation to the Lions and thought, shit, that's the bloke from WA who once played for the Dogs and was homesick so he went back to Perth or Brisbane or somewhere.....

[Go_Dogs]

I think our potential depth is as good as it's ever been. Potential is the key word.

We've got about 10 blokes who pick themselves for round 1:-

Bont
Macrae
Hunter
JJ
McLean
Liberatore
Dunkley
Naughton
Morris
Wood

After that, there's lots of players who you can argue for, based on 2018, based on scope to improve, based on historical performance, subject to returning from injury etc.

While it's great to have so many in the conversation, we need 15 blokes to step up and end the conversation. Not be boaderline, not be in the mix - but be consistent senior footballers who can be relied upon.

We can get there, but I'm not yet convinced we are deep.

[Mofra]

We've got about 10 blokes who pick themselves for round 1:-

Bont
Macrae
Hunter
JJ
McLean
Liberatore
Dunkley
Naughton
Morris
Wood

After that, there's lots of players who you can argue for, based on 2018, based on scope to improve, based on historical performance, subject to returning from injury etc.

While it's great to have so many in the conversation, we need 15 blokes to step up and end the conversation. Not be boaderline, not be in the mix - but be consistent senior footballers who can be relied upon.
Ed Richards without a doubt
Trengove (no 1 ruck)
Schache
Cordy

Tempted to put Wallis as a forward and/or Caleb Daniel but they're probably 90% there.

[jeemak]

I genuinely get that but he is clearly being given a free pass on any reasonable level of scrutiny of performance over a long period and while many will call out the limitations of others, Wood remains our club's version of teflon.
No doubt he is a good bloke and leader and that really isn't in question for me but the suggestions that he shouldn't play on the taller players I think really disadvantages our team because he just isn't good enough to provide run and carry like so many others we have on our list.
I think we need 3 smaller skillful guys and that comes from Crozier, JJ, Suckling and Duryea (if I conceded that we have to play Richard elsewhere) and 3 taller players to cover the opposition talls'. To me that means Wood has to be able to match-up on some of the opposition taller guys not always looking for specific match-ups that allow him to zone off.

I really like Easton Wood but I doubt there have been many others that escape the scrutiny like he does.

How well do you expect an intercept specialist to play when our midfield and forward pressure has been terrible, and opposition teams have been able to just run it out of their defence and score heavily against us over the past two years?

Intercept markers playing well and taking intercept marks represent a sign that things upfield are working well. Much like 2016 and 2015, if we can find it within ourselves to start being competitive forward of centre and actually making it difficult for the opposition to transition forward, Wood, if given the opportunity match-up wise will return to some form.

Now I'm not saying he's been great and doesn't deserve scrutiny, but if I could think of a defencive player who would really struggle to insert himself into a game when the ball is coming in quickly and accurately, it is the mid-sized defender who has to play on talls and usually plays an intercept game.

[Ghost Dog]

Highlighting the Western Bulldogs' stunning fall from grace after winning the flag in 2016, Pelchen has them in the bottom four lists in the AFL, ranked below the Lions and Fremantle.

Anyway, how's St Kilda going Pelican?

[GVGjr]

This is what Pelchen wrote about us

15. WESTERN BULLDOGS

Over the past two years, the Western Bulldogs have only shown glimpses of the team that won the 2016 premiership. Their slide has been both disappointing and dramatic – a reflection of how even the competition has become apart from two to three struggling teams. But the nucleus of a talented side remains. Their midfield and utility players are very good – represented by the likes of Marcus Bontempelli, Jack Macrae, Jason Johannisen, Easton Wood and Lachie Hunter plus younger players, Toby McLean, Ed Richards and outstanding draftees Bailey Smith and Rhylee West. It is in the key positions that questions remain. While Aaron Naughton is going to develop into one of the AFL's leading defenders, the performance of Tom Boyd and Josh Schache in attack will likely determine whether the Bulldogs improve on 2018. If both have greater outputs then a higher ladder position can be expected but if they don't provide genuine scoring options then the Dogs are going to sit in a similar position to last year.

Like Plough, the concern he has is around the key position players.

[Ghost Dog]

Thanks for that GVGjr.

[Ghost Dog]

This article appeared in the December 2016 issue of SEN Inside Football. Pelchan is quoted as saying our lack of key position players is ok as long as we have depth.

link (https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/01/10/can-the-dogs-avoid-the-pitfalls-of-an-early-rise/)




“Many would argue that the team that won the premiership this year actually wasn’t their best 22. I admit it is rare to have the best 22 players on Grand Final day because of injuries, you normally have one or two exceptions, but you have 22 of your best 24 or 26 players.”

The Bulldogs overcame significant injuries in the last eight weeks and it could be debated that they didn’t actually have their best 17 or 18 players on Grand Final day.

“Look at players like Robert Murphy, Mitch Wallis, Tom Campbell, Lin Jong, Matt Suckling, Marcus Adams who got the team into the top eight in the first half of the season,” said Pelchen.

“I would say there were 30 players who could have been in the first 22.”

Pelchen said the Bulldogs weren’t loaded with superstars either. “While they may not have reached the heights of previous premiership sides in statistical terms of elite players, the fact is they bat very deep and have such an even group.

“That should work in their favour for the next three or four years.”

He admires the work of the Bulldog recruiters.

“I always say it’s like building a chain. One link doesn’t win you a premiership. It’s a matter of building links together to give you a chain of talent.

“You won’t win it based on one good draft.” ( GD# Or one good key position player!)

We are going to bat a lot higher than Pelchan or Plough thinks. All eyes on Liberatore, Josh, Tom Boyd, to see what they can bring us.

[AshMac]

Reading through the fixture again just now, I honestly think there is a real possibility we only win 5 games this year. I'm pumped with our developing list, and i can see a huge upside in the middle of the ground with Libba back and Bont, Dunkley, Mcrae, Mclean all having strong preseasons - Wally in there for a pinch - but I still see big gaps in our defense and honestly dont know where our goals will come from this year.

Not a doom and gloom prediction, just saying I wouldnt be suprised w 5 wins and reckon 15th is about right.

[Ghost Dog]

Reading through the fixture again just now, I honestly think there is a real possibility we only win 5 games this year. I'm pumped with our developing list, and i can see a huge upside in the middle of the ground with Libba back and Bont, Dunkley, Mcrae, Mclean all having strong preseasons - Wally in there for a pinch - but I still see big gaps in our defense and honestly dont know where our goals will come from this year.

Not a doom and gloom prediction, just saying I wouldnt be suprised w 5 wins and reckon 15th is about right.

Fair enough. Well, we had Richmond by the earlobes at the sharp end of the year. I think we will win a lot more than 5 and surprise many. Bont may indeed be a key forward for a year, and we all know he can do it. Marks strongly, kicks straight, and lifts the team.
I just think so many of our new players look dangerous. Ed Richards, Billy Gower - lively!

[Go_Dogs]

5 wins would be a very disappointing result.

It’s such an even competition that anything could happen, and while I don’t agree that our depth is the best it’s ever been (if potential turns into performance maybe it becomes that) we should be a competitive side each week. We have a strong midfield and improved running stock. Our key posts are a little light on, but I’m not too concerned about that as long as we have a better run with injuries.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think a lot has to go right for us to have a good year, whilst only a little needs to go wrong for us to have a rotten season.

[mjp]

Reading through the fixture again just now....

....Not a doom and gloom prediction, just saying I wouldnt be suprised w 5 wins and reckon 15th is about right.

Well, if that isn’t doom and gloom I would hate to catch you in a dark moment!

What about the fixture has you thinking 5 wins? I look at it and seen double digit wins...I like our fixture (a lot).

[GVGjr]

I think a lot has to go right for us to have a good year, whilst only a little needs to go wrong for us to have a rotten season.

Last year it was a frustrating one that often focused on the injury list as the almost primary reason for each loss.
While I agree that a few untimely injuries for the key position players could derail us I do think we have an improved level of depth (and desire) that we probably didn't have last season.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I think our potential depth is as good as it's ever been. Potential is the key word.

We've got about 10 blokes who pick themselves for round 1:-

Bont
Macrae
Hunter
JJ
McLean
Liberatore
Dunkley
Naughton
Morris
Wood

After that, there's lots of players who you can argue for, based on 2018, based on scope to improve, based on historical performance, subject to returning from injury etc.

While it's great to have so many in the conversation, we need 15 blokes to step up and end the conversation. Not be boaderline, not be in the mix - but be consistent senior footballers who can be relied upon.

We can get there, but I'm not yet convinced we are deep.

Trengrove Richards Crozier and Cordy should also be lock ins. Our biggest problem still remains and that is to have an attack that can outscore the opposition.

[jeemak]

This is what Pelchen wrote about us

15. WESTERN BULLDOGS

Over the past two years, the Western Bulldogs have only shown glimpses of the team that won the 2016 premiership. Their slide has been both disappointing and dramatic – a reflection of how even the competition has become apart from two to three struggling teams. But the nucleus of a talented side remains. Their midfield and utility players are very good – represented by the likes of Marcus Bontempelli, Jack Macrae, Jason Johannisen, Easton Wood and Lachie Hunter plus younger players, Toby McLean, Ed Richards and outstanding draftees Bailey Smith and Rhylee West. It is in the key positions that questions remain. While Aaron Naughton is going to develop into one of the AFL's leading defenders, the performance of Tom Boyd and Josh Schache in attack will likely determine whether the Bulldogs improve on 2018. If both have greater outputs then a higher ladder position can be expected but if they don't provide genuine scoring options then the Dogs are going to sit in a similar position to last year.

Like Plough, the concern he has is around the key position players.

I was just about the post the Felchen article myself. It smacked of someone who follows enough to seem informed enough to comment, but too lazy to see the depth of talent coming through that can only be gleaned from watching closely.

Now I will admit I am guilty of doing the same thing but we're talking about my team. At the end of the season we could have all of Dunkley, Liberatore, Bontempelli, Macrae, McLean, Johanissen, Hunter, Crozier, Daniel, Suckling, Wood, Naughton, Williams and Dickson all being capable or almost capable of walk up starts to any side in the league because they're that good if playing well. That's 14 players who could command a spot at any other team if they moved.

When you look at who's behind them, that's where we have our issues and where the questions marks start. Trengove,, Cordy, Boyd, Schache, English, Richards, Morris (tough one), Gowers, Wallis and Dale. All of these players are ready to be capable for us, but they aren't quite there yet, and as you can see there is a bias toward key positions within this group.

If Gowers, Schache, English, Richards, Dale and Wallis improve this year then I don't see how our list could be considered as poorly as it is by the pundits if the top group have decent seasons.

[soupman]

I don't usually stick up for the AFL related media but I'm not sure they are saying the wrong thing here.



If Gowers, Schache, English, Richards, Dale and Wallis improve this year then I don't see how our list could be considered as poorly as it is by the pundits if the top group have decent seasons.

If that's the "if" scenario then no wonder people are sceptical about us or "don't trust us". Couple that with players who actually would not be walk up players in the AFL based on recent form (Dickson has shown glimpses but has lacked the continuity to prove he is still good, nobody wanted Libba so I guess he counts, I agree with you on Suckling but half the forum seems hell bent on dropping him so he in't exactly a star, and Daniel was dropped from our bottom 6 side last year so should hardly be in the walk up start category even just for us).

We look at our list and see potential and think "how could we not improve". The media look at our side and sees potential and thinks "they're shit, although if they improve as their potential indicates they could be good, but I'm not that confident that they will".

We have completely lost the trust of the media and wider footballing public, and they are right to rate us poorly until we actually show we are capable of improving as we hope.

[Mofra]

Reading through the fixture again just now, I honestly think there is a real possibility we only win 5 games this year. I'm pumped with our developing list, and i can see a huge upside in the middle of the ground with Libba back and Bont, Dunkley, Mcrae, Mclean all having strong preseasons - Wally in there for a pinch - but I still see big gaps in our defense and honestly dont know where our goals will come from this year.
You can be weak around the ground but strong in the centre and still win more games than you lose.

Playing 12 midfielders on the ground makes you a strong running side and AFL is a running game.

Earlier I was looking at NicNat's marking stats in 2015 - 33 in total (yes he won mark of the year). Cyril Rioli had 103, Suckers 140 or so. The ability to run into space is far, far more important than being able to wrestle an opponent under a high ball.

I really rate our running ability. Hunter and Richards provide substantial outside run and we have Wallis in the F50 who is one of our best runner, Schache who covers a lot of ground and Lippi's slow but a has endurance. That's before you consider our centre square combos or the guys who can run the ball out of the backhalf.

Srs hat on - if JJ misses round one Ghosty is a serious chance of lining up in the back half, even with Duryea in the side. That's our forte and that's how we'll beat sides.

[mjp]

...and Lippi's slow but a has endurance. .

Seems plenty quick enough to me: https://www.afl.com.au/video/2018-05-05/lightning-lipinski-does-the-double

[AshMac]

You can be weak around the ground but strong in the centre and still win more games than you lose.

Playing 12 midfielders on the ground makes you a strong running side and AFL is a running game.

Earlier I was looking at NicNat's marking stats in 2015 - 33 in total (yes he won mark of the year). Cyril Rioli had 103, Suckers 140 or so. The ability to run into space is far, far more important than being able to wrestle an opponent under a high ball.

I really rate our running ability. Hunter and Richards provide substantial outside run and we have Wallis in the F50 who is one of our best runner, Schache who covers a lot of ground and Lippi's slow but a has endurance. That's before you consider our centre square combos or the guys who can run the ball out of the backhalf.

Srs hat on - if JJ misses round one Ghosty is a serious chance of lining up in the back half, even with Duryea in the side. That's our forte and that's how we'll beat sides.

Agree there is top end talent and good leg speed in our middle now, and I see it having an impact but not winning is enough games. I felt last year - aside from the first few rounds - we were generally competitive most weeks, just let down by our forward entries (which will be better this year) and efficiency with the footy going forward which was our biggest problem (lack of depth in the middle and a rotating back line up didn’t help).

Not a fan of injuries as an excuse, all teams have injuries, and even age - though it’s more palatable. Don’t see enough change in our attack structure this year to see the midfield having enough impact to turn the tide. I think we’re atleast two years, and a damaging forward off pushing finals.

All speculation of course. Wally could play mostly forward and be as effective as he once was in one on ones, Gowers may take another step forward, Cav could deliver on potential and schache could learn how to put in a second effort and be the perfect blend of athleticism and strength. Hope all this is true.

Add in a heavier and hungry English, Bont free of a hip complaint with a beast mode Dunkley and Libba and I’m excited - but I’m also realistic and I don’t see the development of our kids, and our draft/trade period enough to cover the gaps of last year.

I’ll still be there every week, and get 100% enjoyment from us getting better.

The games I reckon we’ll win are the obvious ones - Suns, blues, saints and maybe lions in Melbourne. 5 games. Wouldn’t be surprised if we beat Essendon, swans and north based on confidence and match ups. Genuinely don’t think we’ll win a game on the road.

Worst case we win 5, get some great experience and gel in our top 24-30 players and a nice draft pick.
Best case we click into gear, topple a couple of teams we weren’t expecting to, win 7-9 games and still get a nice draft pick.

Would love nothing more than to eat humble pie by the bye round. The Richmond game for me isn’t a reflection on both teams ability - it’s was last round and they were 2 games clear first. Did kill they lied about Dusty’s stats on the board at half time when Jacko was best on by a country mile.