Is Bevo Under Pressure to Perform this Year?

[bornadog]

According to Blight ( I have no respect for him), he ranks Bevo as 4th most under pressure as follows:


1. Alan Richardson (St Kilda)“That’s just fact.”

2. Brendon Bolton (Carlton)
“If you go 14th, 16th, 18th, 17th - you have got to see some movement somewhere.”

3. Ross Lyon (Fremantle)
“If he sits around those and gets six or seven wins again, I think that Ross would be in trouble.”

4. Luke Beveridge (Western Bulldogs)
“Maybe your turn is up, and it’s time to move on.

As far as I am concerned we need to perform, of course a given, but he still has plenty to give this club.

[Doc26]

According to Blight ( I have no respect for him), he ranks Bevo as 4th most under pressure as follows:



As far as I am concerned we need to perform, of course a given, but he still has plenty to give this club.

And his mate Ken Hinkley is not in this top 4??

[bornadog]

And his mate Ken Hinkley is not in this top 4??

Can't stand Blight, he is a real dickhead with the things he says. Whately just loves him.

[Mofra]

And his mate Ken Hinkley is not in this top 4??
Surely under more pressure than Bevo (Bulldogs the youngest side vs 22 opponents, etc etc)

[hujsh]

According to Blight ( I have no respect for him), he ranks Bevo as 4th most under pressure as follows:



As far as I am concerned we need to perform, of course a given, but he still has plenty to give this club.

Looks like he basically picked the bottom 4 excluding the Suns. Not exactly world class journalism.

[strebla]

One mans opinion who really cares won't matter when we make top 6 anyway!!!

[mjp]

1/. He will be under a little bit of pressure, but he is one of only 3 coaches to win a premiership in the last 3 years.

2/. I think we will win early games (draw is pretty favourable) and unless you LOSE early you don't end up under pressure...

[GVGjr]

I think Blight is right to ask the question if Bevo should be under pressure to have the team performing even though I believe Bevo is as safe as houses.

IF we don't win enough games or just play poorly then given our more than favorable draw, our strong list and the fact that we have rid ourselves of a number of distracted players then we should be under the microscope.
We can't use players being distracted from the flag and injuries as permanent excuses for falling short on expectations.
That time has past and expectations should be that we will make a significant improvement this year.
There are no more soft landings for us and it's time for the club to get back on track.

[Eastdog]

Bevo is a premiership coach. If we make the finals we won’t be talking about whether his job is safe but if not then will talk again.

[Eastdog]

One mans opinion who really cares won't matter when we make top 6 anyway!!!

Top 6 would be great considering what we have done the last 2 years.

[azabob]

Another poor year and yes pressure will start mounting especially from the supporter base. I get the feeling some supporters are already frustrated with the teams fall from grace.
I hope his choice to back in his assistants doesn’t backfire on him.

For other coaches under more pressure not on the list especially if they miss finals- Don Pyke, Leon Cameron, John Worsfold, Brad Scott, Ken Hinkley, Chris Scott.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

I agree that if we don’t perform and get to top 8 this year Bevo will have an uncomfortable preseason in 2020. But he is safe this year as a premiership buys you a few years.

My frustration is I really think after winning the cup he got a little ahead of himself (maybe more than the players) I hope he goes back to playing the players in the spots that took us to glory. I don’t care if they can can play multiple positions. If your winning the one your picked for you don’t need a second posistion. That said I really don’t think Bevo has a plan B as he seems to react slowly in game day. This may have been due to the age group to be fair.

We still love him anyway but we need to get back to basics and back up the ladder

[boydogs]

Yes I think he is under pressure, expectations rise when you win a premiership and he has failed to back that up. There will always be a perception that the group should be doing better than it is given it just won a flag

Whether that's fair or not is another question

[AshMac]

optically it looks like a fall from grace, those who follow the club understand the circumstances. So whilst I think the media have an angle - and the right - to ask questions about it, that’s all it is.

His job is probably one of the safest in the sport I’d have thought - even another poor year, which I’m predicting, would not change that.

He clearly changed the game plan in 2017 and the list over 17/18. I imagine he’s working to a 3-5 year plan and is managing he club’s expectations the whole way.

I’ve just finished the wink from the universe book which gives a lot of insight into his thinking and assessment of the team. I’m hindsight it’s easy to see the way our list changed, but everything is easy in hindsight.

[The Pie Man]

Similar to others, I believe he'll feel the heat if we lose games badly early on - but Blight's comment is a lazy one ignoring late season form.

The Sydney game feels similar to the Crows game in 08 (Johnno's 300th) I felt if we'd lost that, 08 might've turned out a bit differently.

[SonofScray]

I had him sacked at qtr time of R2 2018. Then flipped and flopped until the last month of footy and settled on a number of factors outside his control being the most impactful features of his/the team's poor performance.

He is already under pressure imo. But I expect things to improve and believe he will have an influence in that happening.

[Ghost Dog]

Absolutely under pressure, more because we have Libba back, a very strong midfield which a decent coach should be able to utilize.
He's got a good group and no reason not to be optimistic. Super Bullish this year. Be very disappointed if we don't make top 8.

[Remi Moses]

How on earth isn’t Hinkley on that list ?
Ex Cat coach bias there , me thinks !
Would think Longmire might be under pressure also as well as Worsfold

[Remi Moses]

Absolutely under pressure, more because we have Libba back, a very strong midfield which a decent coach should be able to utilize.
He's got a good group and no reason not to be optimistic. Super Bullish this year. Be very disappointed if we don't make top 8.

To be honest it well depend on how we fair in the injury stakes .

[mjp]

I had him sacked at qtr time of R2 2018. Then flipped and flopped until the last month of footy and settled on a number of factors outside his control being the most impactful features of his/the team's poor performance.

He is already under pressure imo. But I expect things to improve and believe he will have an influence in that happening.

You had our only premiership coach in 60-odd years sacked 20 games after that win? Holy sh!t that is unbelievable to me.

[boydogs]

You had our only premiership coach in 60-odd years sacked 20 games after that win? Holy sh!t that is unbelievable to me.

Getting beat by 10 goals in the first 2 games 20 games after that win was shocking

[Hotdog60]

I think the whole fox and 7 commentary team are under immense pressure they have been shit for a number of years.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Two JLT games down and now looking st around one. Based on what we have delivered so far in 2019 I’ve changed my mind. Yes I think Bevo is under pressure. He looks to have read the Alester Clarkson book and thinks it better to do left of field positional changes rather than do what you do well. It worked in 2016 and Bevo wants to be the next coach with a left field result that worked.

I just can’t see how he can afford any more buggering around with the team. Put them in posistion s they know, back yourself and play with Bulldog sprit.

Last year injuries gave him some form of excuses to flip players around. 2019 no more excuses the JLT was a joke and we need to be lead well.

[MrMahatma]

Aren’t all coaches under pressure to perform? They need to sell a vision and progress toward that. Bevo is no different.

Is he at risk of losing his job? I’d say not this year. Stranger things have happened but we’d have to have a full blown disaster of a year for it to be genuinely contemplated.

[Greystache]

He's got another year on his contract after this season but I think by then the pressure on him is red hot. If this season pans out the way I expect, which is bottom 4 with 5-8 wins, a number of beltings, and no real signs of improvement or team cohesion then that will be 3 years of consecutive regression with no signs of an upswing. He'd need a 2015 style expectation reversal in 2020 to survive.

If we get the wooden spoon this year, which is entirely a possibilty, I can see him going at the end of the season.

[Mofra]

Bevo did once say he'd only coach for five years so perhaps he'll walk anyway at the end of his contract?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

He's got another year on his contract after this season but I think by then the pressure on him is red hot. If this season pans out the way I expect, which is bottom 4 with 5-8 wins, a number of beltings, and no real signs of improvement or team cohesion then that will be 3 years of consecutive regression with no signs of an upswing. He'd need a 2015 style expectation reversal in 2020 to survive.

If we get the wooden spoon this year, which is entirely a possibilty, I can see him going at the end of the season.

Barring injuries I think we have the talent to be better than a bottom 4 team. We have recruited well in the past couple of years with the likes of English Naughton Richards Greene Lipinski Williams Trengrove and Lloyd. Our Father/ Son Recruitment in Libba Cordy Hunter Wallis with West to come has been excellent. I do have concerns with Bevo’s football support team however which is in need of a refresh. I would be going all out to lure back Matthew Boyd and Daniel Cross plus Dale Morris next year. All three have been fine players and are quality people with excellent character.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

He's got another year on his contract after this season but I think by then the pressure on him is red hot. If this season pans out the way I expect, which is bottom 4 with 5-8 wins, a number of beltings, and no real signs of improvement or team cohesion then that will be 3 years of consecutive regression with no signs of an upswing. He'd need a 2015 style expectation reversal in 2020 to survive.

If we get the wooden spoon this year, which is entirely a possibilty, I can see him going at the end of the season.

My thoughts are similar.

His stubbornness and refusal to introduce change to the coaching and medical teams hasn’t done him any favours.

Stripping it to basics, we’ve had long enough to address our ruck crisis and skill errors yet neither are looking remotely better. In fact, you could argue they’ve got worse - particularly in the way of the ruck situation. I find it diabolical we are going into 2019 with one ruck in the list (English) who isn’t ready, a rookie ruck and stopgaps (Trengove isn’t a ruck and neither is Boyd). The fact that basically 3 years after they changed the ruck rule we are still opting with occasionally rucking Dunkley, Morris and Bonti in parts is ridiculous. It was horrific when we first tried it and it was still horrific in the JLT v St Kilda yet we (Bevo) persists.

Eventually this kind of stubbornness will catch up with him.

[lemmon]

I reckon you've put it perfectly The Bulldogs Bite. I was hoping this year would be a 'back to the basics' season in terms of playing genuine ruckmen, playing a traditional forward structure and letting proven players play where they've made a name for themselves.

The trade and draft period didn't fill me with confidence (we have 1 actual ruckman and two actual key forwards on the main list) and JLT hasn't helped.

I'm still bullish about the year, but JLT has raised a few concerns. At the very least we seem committed to playing some guys over 6'2 forward of the ball this year.

[Vred]

Eventually this kind of stubbornness will catch up with him.

This +1.

Ruck options should of been fixed in the draft.
Forward options should of been fixed in the draft (I know Lloyd was bought in but I don't think it's enough).
Skill errors are what get me the most, with the amount that we get hit from turnovers and our ability to not score / even enter 50 smoothly, it's been a problem since mid 2017 and it seems, after JLT, it's still a problem.

[Remi Moses]

This +1.

Ruck options should of been fixed in the draft.
Forward options should of been fixed in the draft (I know Lloyd was bought in but I don't think it's enough).
Skill errors are what get me the most, with the amount that we get hit from turnovers and our ability to not score / even enter 50 smoothly, it's been a problem since mid 2017 and it seems, after JLT, it's still a problem.

I see your point but would argue that is there good enough ruck options in the draft ? and we didn’t get the King brothers as they went before our picks . It’s all very well to draft needs , but drafted KPP’s and rucks take time .

[Mofra]

I find it diabolical we are going into 2019 with one ruck in the list (English) who isn’t ready, a rookie ruck and stopgaps (Trengove isn’t a ruck and neither is Boyd). The fact that basically 3 years after they changed the ruck rule we are still opting with occasionally rucking Dunkley, Morris and Bonti in parts is ridiculous.
In fairness, Richmond won a flag with a second ruck (Grigg) who is shorter than those three guys.

I would have liked one more mature ruck because Sweet doesn't quite seem ready but who was available? Campbell seemed one of the top options and we wouldn't play him regardless.

[Remi Moses]

I had him sacked at qtr time of R2 2018. Then flipped and flopped until the last month of footy and settled on a number of factors outside his control being the most impactful features of his/the team's poor performance.

He is already under pressure imo. But I expect things to improve and believe he will have an influence in that happening.


Good god ! :confused:

[Remi Moses]

Sydney had Allir Allir rucking on the weekend . Richmond won a flag with Shaun Grigg .
Nobody plays two actual ruckman anymore . Just hope the ones that pile on in the negativity have the courage to come forward if we do go better than expected . I’ll watch intently

[GVGjr]

I see your point but would argue that is there good enough ruck options in the draft ? and we didn’t get the King brothers as they went before our picks . It’s all very well to draft needs , but drafted KPP’s and rucks take time .

Knowing all that the trade period should have provided some options

[Vred]

I see your point but would argue that is there good enough ruck options in the draft ? and we didn’t get the King brothers as they went before our picks . It’s all very well to draft needs , but drafted KPP’s and rucks take time .

I'm not OVERLY fussed with our rucking options, I think English will develop into a super-star ruck, it'll take time but he'll get there.

What we need is a *!*!*!*!ing big man power forward (aka Boyd) who can mark above his head, crash packs and hit the big sticks every time.. Something, we don't honestly have.

[The Pie Man]

Re: rucks.....with potentially more space around the contest - at least in the centre square - I think tap ruckmen are going to be more important.

Roughead was reasonable for us in 2016 with third man up and was exposed thereafter, while I'll watch Nankervis with interest this year with the new rules in place.

I wasn't too concerned about it, but after watching our pre season games, our rucks stocks look like a mess

[Sedat]

Can't stand Blight, he is a real dickhead with the things he says. Whately just loves him.
I guess dickheads are attracted to dickheads, even dickheads with good vocabulary who cannot rate to save themselves;)

[Mofra]

Re: rucks.....with potentially more space around the contest - at least in the centre square - I think tap ruckmen are going to be more important.

Roughead was reasonable for us in 2016 with third man up and was exposed thereafter, while I'll watch Nankervis with interest this year with the new rules in place.

I wasn't too concerned about it, but after watching our pre season games, our rucks stocks look like a mess
How do you think we went H1 vs Saints as opposed to H2?

Trengove had 9 taps, English 18 but Trengove did more around the ground. For mine it's line-ball between the two, Trengove marginally better performed but English has much more upside.

[The Pie Man]

How do you think we went H1 vs Saints as opposed to H2?

Trengove had 9 taps, English 18 but Trengove did more around the ground. For mine it's line-ball between the two, Trengove marginally better performed but English has much more upside.

That's pretty much how I see it as well - Bevo might play both to give us some flexibility (Trengove and / or Naughton back if they start catching it close to goal) but I'd much rather run with one and Schache as support...where I would pick Trengove purely for his strength at the contest and ability to get us forward.

Conversation with my brother reviewing last Sunday this morning went something like this.

TPM's brother : Trengove's no good
TPM : Bit harsh
TPM's brother : He's not a ruckman
TPM : but that's where he's played his best footy though...we could play him as a defender but he gets exposed for pace
TPM's brother : I know
TPM : so what is he then? We've got another 3 years on decent coin to go
TPM's brother : I don't know. Why'd we let Campbell go?

And so on....

[Axe Man]

Re: rucks.....with potentially more space around the contest - at least in the centre square - I think tap ruckmen are going to be more important.

Roughead was reasonable for us in 2016 with third man up and was exposed thereafter, while I'll watch Nankervis with interest this year with the new rules in place.

I wasn't too concerned about it, but after watching our pre season games, our rucks stocks look like a mess

We won the centre clearances 17-8 against St Kilda so we didn't have any glaring ruck issues in the square at least.

[bornadog]

Will be interesting what our setup will be come round 1

[mjp]

What we need is a *!*!*!*!ing big man power forward (aka Boyd) who can mark above his head, crash packs and hit the big sticks every time.. Something, we don't honestly have.

That’s fair enough, but it isn’t like we aren’t trying to find this player. Somehow we have gotten s former #1 overall pick from the giants and a former #2 overall from the lions to fill that role. No other club has been so pro-active in trading for key forwards...

What more would you have the footy dept do?

[jeemak]

That’s fair enough, but it isn’t like we aren’t trying to find this player. Somehow we have gotten s former #1 overall pick from the giants and a former #2 overall from the lions to fill that role. No other club has been so pro-active in trading for key forwards...

What more would you have the footy dept do?

We also brought Cloke in after we won the flag, but haven't been prepared to overpay or anyone who has been on the market either.

People need to also be mindful of experienced quality players wanting to play for teams that play in the big games, and unless we play finals year in year out, that just ain't us.

[Doc26]

In fairness, Richmond won a flag with a second ruck (Grigg) who is shorter than those three guys.

I would have liked one more mature ruck because Sweet doesn't quite seem ready but who was available? Campbell seemed one of the top options and we wouldn't play him regardless.

I’d feel more comfortable if we had a Toby Nankervis as our #1 ruck and others filling the backup 2nd ruck until English is fully formed.

[westbulldog]

Sydney had Allir Allir rucking on the weekend . Richmond won a flag with Shaun Grigg .
Nobody plays two actual ruckman anymore . Just hope the ones that pile on in the negativity have the courage to come forward if we do go better than expected . I’ll watch intently

The reigning premiers did and seem to be continuing with 2 rucks this year (Vardy, Hickey and later on Natanui).

[Mofra]

The reigning premiers did and seem to be continuing with 2 rucks this year (Vardy, Hickey and later on Natanui).
Yep - ditto Port and Hawthorn (who for years had Hale in the forward line when resting).

There's no single 'right' way to do things, we have to find what works for us.

[SonofScray]

Thought his presentation at the season launch was pretty good. He seemed to be in a better place, with some hope in his story, even though he effectively tempered expectations.

[Ghost Dog]

Not playing Bont in the ruck works for me...

[MrMahatma]

Thought his presentation at the season launch was pretty good. He seemed to be in a better place, with some hope in his story, even though he effectively tempered expectations.

Thought it was a nice speech that said “I’m a good bloke, and we’ll have a crack this year, just like last year.”

Nothing so far in the pre-season, apart from Libba’s return, indicates a better year this year than last.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

How much longer can we put up with Beveridge and the current coaching group?

Skills and goal kicking have got worse since he arrived if you can believe it.

Super talents like Stringer? Ousted - which we handled pathetically.

We won a premiership with a very young list. Three years on now and our list is diabolically out of shape. No rucks, no key defenders, no small forwards and little pace/excitement.

We are boring to watch to say the least.

Thanks for the flag Bevo but you’re done.

[bulldogtragic]

Is prior times he'd be in trouble. I don't think anyone will do anything. Maybe if he felt the pressure of the board on his back, he might go about selecting a team capable of beating the worse side in the comp. But that's not happening, so many members/fans can do the feeling of embarrassment for them all.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

I think it would be poor to sack Bevo.
But I do think the time has come for an absolute no holds barred independent review; not one conducted by our Footy department.

[chef]

When does his contract run out?

[bulldogtragic]

When does his contract run out?

End of 2020, unless we extend it before then.

[bornadog]

I think it would be poor to sack Bevo.
But I do think the time has come for an absolute no holds barred independent review; not one conducted by our Footy department.

5 games in, let's wait till the season is over.

[1eyedog]

First time ever my support of Bevo has wavered.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

5 games in, let's wait till the season is over.

Its not just these 5 games though. We've now a sample size of some 49 games. We've well and truly established:
We are the worst in the league for goal conversion.
We have even highly skilled players turning over the ball or failing to complete basic AFL skills with shocking regularity. Even Bont today, just a lack of care with some of his disposals by foot and hand.
In almost every way we have gone backward.
I don't dump this all on Bevo. He has proven himself a leader of men. I want to know what is going on across the club, what are we doing to address this.

[lemmon]

Time to go.

Forever grateful for what he did in in 2016, but his attempts to play the game differently have failed and continuing with the same odd strategies into this season is nothing short of arrogance.

You can't fill a team with half back flankers, you can't continually play undersized in key positions, you can't play small and concede the ruck and you can't play guys out of position in the name of versatility.

They're tenets of Aussie Rules and have been for 100+ years. I'm not sure why Bevo thinks a successful Bulldogs side would look any different to every other successful side in history.

Thanks, but time's up.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Time to go.

Forever grateful for what he did in in 2016, but his attempts to play the game differently have failed and continuing with the same odd strategies into this season is nothing short of arrogance.

You can't fill a team with half back flankers, you can't continually play undersized in key positions, you can't play small and concede the ruck and you can't play guys out of position in the name of versatility.

They're tenets of Aussie Rules and have been for 100+ years. I'm not sure why Bevo thinks a successful Bulldogs side would look any different to every other successful side in history.

Thanks, but time's up.

Very well put - couldn’t have said it any better.

[bulldogtragic]

Time to go.

Forever grateful for what he did in in 2016, but his attempts to play the game differently have failed and continuing with the same odd strategies into this season is nothing short of arrogance.

You can't fill a team with half back flankers, you can't continually play undersized in key positions, you can't play small and concede the ruck and you can't play guys out of position in the name of versatility.

They're tenets of Aussie Rules and have been for 100+ years. I'm not sure why Bevo thinks a successful Bulldogs side would look any different to every other successful side in history.

Thanks, but time's up.

That's very succinct and hard to argue with.

The question is whether he has ability to change his philosophy, or whether the club needs to do something with him.

[FrediKanoute]

I dont think its time to go, but it is time to start questioning whether the message is getting through and whether the players are listening. The list has deficiencies, but it is essentially a talented list. 2017 was a free pass; 2018 injury and attitude affected; 2019 and he is running out of excuses. Should have beaten GCS; Had chances to beat the Pies; No excuses today, we were putrid.

[bornadog]

I dont think its time to go, but it is time to start questioning whether the message is getting through and whether the players are listening. The list has deficiencies, but it is essentially a talented list. 2017 was a free pass; 2018 injury and attitude affected; 2019 and he is running out of excuses. Should have beaten GCS; Had chances to beat the Pies; No excuses today, we were putrid.

Summed up well.

[Flamethrower]

Stop playing our players out of position (look at how Roughead is thriving at Collingwood), reward players playing well in the VFL (eg Lipinski), and drop players who are out of form (eg Hunter, Wood).

[DOG GOD]

Stop playing our players out of position (look at how Roughead is thriving at Collingwood), reward players playing well in the VFL (eg Lipinski), and drop players who are out of form (eg Hunter, Wood).

Sadly, won’t happen.

Crows have recently dropped Gibbs and Jenkins. Seems certain players of ours have a free season pass no matter what form they show.

[Rocket Science]

That's very succinct and hard to argue with.

The question is whether he has ability to change his philosophy, or whether the club needs to do something with him.

We don't really even have the personnel to execute this swarming style very effectively. We're largely slow of foot and have a team full of shit kicks, so sure, build a game around high possession.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Stop sitting on the fence!

Yes it’s time to go. You are not as good as you think you are Bevo . Not as clever as you think you are ether. You got lucky in 2016. But really put that aside you have been disappointing and lack the ability to think on game day.

[Hotdog60]

I've mentioned before but how much has Monty leaving changed things.
The problem might be to many yes men in the committee and no one to challenge the decisions.

[bulldogtragic]

We don't really even have the personnel to execute this swarming style very effectively. We're largely slow of foot and have a team full of shit kicks, so sure, build a game around high possession.

I was going to start a thread around this in the last week. That is, has Bevo created this game plan as a game plan that will win premierships if it has an All Australian like team of talent? Or has he created it based on the actual talent and limitations we have?

When you have a finite list of players, he needs to 'dance with the one who brought him'. I defer to those who understand game plans and styles more, but to me I think he's created a gameplan that our players cannot pull off. If we had Hawthorn 2012-15 like foot skills, we'd be top of the ladder. But we are not them, we are 18th for goal accuracy and probably not much better for general efficiency. So I think for the most part, we are using 'square pegs in round holes'. It's great in theory, but not in practice.

I think if this is what Bevo wants to do, and the club is behind him, then we need to go 'all in' and off load a good chunk of players who lack kicking skills and hope to bring in far better kicks, like a Dunkley for example. If we won't play multiple rucks or tall forwards, we need to get trading on Boyd, Schache &/or Trengove. That's over $1.5M a season in and out of Footscray, which is over 10% of our salary cap not essential to the game plan. This is the back Bevo 100% plan.

The alternative is to understand the strenthes and weaknesses (poor skills, poor conversion, limited foot speed) of our list, and the appropriate selection of multiple KPPs both in defence and forward. Then play to their strenthes.

I don't think we can be 'half pregnant' on this. Sides this year, including average ones, have a simple game plan for playing us. Wait for us to make a turnover and score from it. It's been a very successful against Bevo's game plan, and no doubt it will continue this year. So back in Bevo, turnover the list get him the players he needs for his gameplan going ahead and lose games this year learning it better. Or, take a deep breath and play in a way more consistent with our skills. Which haven't shown signs of improving since 2017, up to and including scoring goals which is kind of the point of our game.

As I say, I defer to those who understand this better than I, but I'm really unsure about what we are doing and why.

[hujsh]

Make big changes to the coaching group. Bevo doesn't like it he can resign. Make a call on Bevo after trying that out.

[G-Mo77]

I've mentioned before but how much has Monty leaving changed things.
The problem might be to many yes men in the committee and no one to challenge the decisions.

He left before the finals in 2016 so I'm not sure if that is or was an issue. I do think we need to turn over coaches though. We've basically kept the same coaching staff here but shuffled them around. New faces and fresh ideas would help a lot.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Mentioned on many posts over the last 12 months. Gorden you need to show some leadership now!

As the great EJ said. Do something!

[Hotdog60]

He left before the finals in 2016 so I'm not sure if that is or was an issue. I do think we need to turn over coaches though. We've basically kept the same coaching staff here but shuffled them around. New faces and fresh ideas would help a lot.

Yes he did leave before the finals but was the ground work already in place.
Monty gave me the impression that he didn't hold back on what he thought and maybe it may have lead to him moving on.
Not saying Monty would be a better coach but maybe a good foil to assist the senior coach.

[Eastdog]

I dont think its time to go, but it is time to start questioning whether the message is getting through and whether the players are listening. The list has deficiencies, but it is essentially a talented list. 2017 was a free pass; 2018 injury and attitude affected; 2019 and he is running out of excuses. Should have beaten GCS; Had chances to beat the Pies; No excuses today, we were putrid.

Like what you say Fredi. Im still in the camp of persisting with Bevo but I think changes to the assistants around him is in order. Didn't change up too much in this area at the end of last season. Having someone come in with fresh ideas would not hurt.

There are coaches who have lasted longer with more bad seasons. Bevo has had 2 and hopefully the ship and turn again in teh right direction but we have a lot to work on and think about.

[bulldogtragic]

Just for info, for info sake:

2017-Current

Luke Beveridge

Games - 49
Wins - 21
Losses - 28
Success Rate - 42% (likely to fall further)

[whythelongface]

Stop sitting on the fence!

Yes it’s time to go. You are not as good as you think you are Bevo . Not as clever as you think you are ether. You got lucky in 2016. But really put that aside you have been disappointing and lack the ability to think on game day.

Lucky. Really. How was that lucky? He was able to transform the team to suit his game style. He executed that brilliantly. Sure there are elements of luck but would hardly call winning the flag from 7th lucky.

You can't put the fact that he won us a flag aside. It is a fact and he was brilliant in that period. Understand that our expectations were high after the flag and that we are disappointed in the team and the coaching team's performance since, but you just can't brush a premiership aside. Maybe it is taking the current crop of players longer to adapt to his game style, maybe Bevo also needs to be more flexible in his approach and not try and be as creative. I am happy to see how he goes this year and reassess at year's end.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I dont think its time to go, but it is time to start questioning whether the message is getting through and whether the players are listening. The list has deficiencies, but it is essentially a talented list. 2017 was a free pass; 2018 injury and attitude affected; 2019 and he is running out of excuses. Should have beaten GCS; Had chances to beat the Pies; No excuses today, we were putrid.
The quality of our list is questionable and has been for the past 3 years. We are too heavy reliant on the likes of Bont Libba and Macrae. Regulars like Hunter Dunkley and Wallis have very poor disposal. Our forward line is probably the worst in the competition.
Without the likes of Morris Picken Dahlhaus and Roughead there is a lack of onfield leadership. Recruitment also requires urgent attention. You cannot hope to improve by reverting to recruiting fringe players from other Clubs which includes Lloyd Gowers Duryea Schache and Suckling. Take a look at the Geelong side today on the art of recruitment

[bornadog]

The quality of our list is questionable and has been for the past 3 years. We are too heavy reliant on the likes of Bont Libba and Macrae. Regulars like Hunter Dunkley and Wallis have very poor disposal. Our forward line is probably the worst in the competition.
Without the likes of Morris Picken Dahlhaus and Roughead there is a lack of onfield leadership. Recruitment also requires urgent attention. You cannot hope to improve by reverting to recruiting fringe players from other Clubs which includes Lloyd Gowers Duryea Schache and Suckling. Take a look at the Geelong side today on the art of recruitment

Schache is a former number two pick and only 21 years old - let;s give him a go, Suckling has been an excellent pickup, jury out on Duryea and Lloyd and Gowers leading our miserable goal kicking.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

Lucky. Really. How was that lucky? He was able to transform the team to suit his game style. He executed that brilliantly. Sure there are elements of luck but would hardly call winning the flag from 7th lucky.

You can't put the fact that he won us a flag aside. It is a fact and he was brilliant in that period. Understand that our expectations were high after the flag and that we are disappointed in the team and the coaching team's performance since, but you just can't brush a premiership aside. Maybe it is taking the current crop of players longer to adapt to his game style, maybe Bevo also needs to be more flexible in his approach and not try and be as creative. I am happy to see how he goes this year and reassess at year's end.

I think we did get Lucky in 2016. We played one month of excellent footy and really had momentum and a fit list at the right time. I don’t doubt we applied ourself and put the work in for that to happen. But what has gone wrong since then. It starts at the helm. Did Bevo let the boys get ahead of themselves, did he not communicate the standards required for the following years. Did he not move players on etc.

I am gratf fir the ride but can’t see how he is the right fit his. He got lucky and his we need someone who can’t get the full potential out of this list. Sadly while Bevo wants to create stupid trends and be innovative with game plans he is missing what we all can see. We don’t have the best list in the AFL so go back to basics and do them well. It served us well back in 2016 why couldn’t it work again. I look at Richmond, Pirt and saints and it looks like they have adopted our old game plan.

[whythelongface]

I think we did get Lucky in 2016. We played one month of excellent footy and really had momentum and a fit list at the right time.

We were 15-7 in the season proper. We played good football throughout the year (sure a couple of average games) and peaked at the right time. There are elements of luck in all premiership wins but hardly lucky. You still haven't stated why we were lucky. Did every other team suffer crippling injuries during the finals period leading us to walk over the line? Were all our players suddenly playing above their own capabilities and on some kind of perform enhancing regime that lead us to win the flag? How exactly were we lucky??




I don’t doubt we applied ourself and put the work in for that to happen. But what has gone wrong since then. It starts at the helm. Did Bevo let the boys get ahead of themselves, did he not communicate the standards required for the following years. Did he not move players on etc.

We have had a high turnover of players, players that were destabilising in the years since, players losing form. Not sure what the reasons are but yes we have certainly performed below our expectations. I was hoping for a dynasty but for reasons this has not happened. Is this possible with the current list and coaching team? Going on recent form no. Hopefully this can be turned around as we have core group of quality players.




I am gratf fir the ride but can’t see how he is the right fit his. He got lucky and his we need someone who can’t get the full potential out of this list. Sadly while Bevo wants to create stupid trends and be innovative with game plans he is missing what we all can see. We don’t have the best list in the AFL so go back to basics and do them well. It served us well back in 2016 why couldn’t it work again. I look at Richmond, Pirt and saints and it looks like they have adopted our old game plan.

Again not sure how Bevo got lucky. He took us from a rabble at the end of '14 to a flag in '16. Sure alot of things need to go right but he was able to manage this and lead us to a premiership. No fluke and not lucky. On the one hand you say that Bevo got lucky but then you highlight the success of his game plan with Richmond, Port and the Saints. Either you believe he got lucky or he actually implemented a game plan that worked. You can't have it both ways.

The games against the Swans, Hawks and Pies showed that we have the ability to press high, sustain pressure and force turnovers.We were also able to win clearances. Even the game against the GC showed this albeit we were not able to convert our chances. The game against Carlton I am hoping is an aberration and we are able to come out and turn this around over the next few weeks. Yes we have issues such as our forward line and delivery into our forward line. I too hope they are addressed and we do bring in some players and drop a few who clearly aren't performing. I am still in the camp that Bevo is the best coach to lead us forward. Time will tell if this is the case.

[bornadog]

Good Post Whythelongface.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

The games against the Swans, Hawks and Pies showed that we have the ability to press high, sustain pressure and force turnovers.We were also able to win clearances. Even the game against the GC showed this albeit. The game against Carlton I am hoping is an aberration and we are able to come out and turn this around over the next few weeks. Yes we have issues such as our forward line and delivery into our forward line. I too hope they are addressed and we do bring in some players and drop a few who clearly aren't performing. I am still in the camp that Bevo is the best coach to lead us forward. Time will tell if this is the case.
You mentioned players out of form. Yes I agree but why? Take Wood. This guys will give his heart to the club. We can all see it. He was an AA Hackman. Bevo stuffed around tried to mend him a forward. He has clearly lost confidence since. Does he think that Bevo doesn’t see him in the best back six? I’m not sure I’m not down at the club. But I can tell you as an outsider looking in. It seems that since 2026 Bevo has made a lot of bad choices and we are lost without a direction. I’m really unsure he can get us bavmkn track. We have a list that is better than getting belted by a club in trouble like Carlton.

[Dry Rot]

Why did Montgomery leave? Jumped or pushed?

[Scraggers]

I agree we need a external review of our footy department, I agree there should be an assistant coach shake-up, but I disagree that Bevo’s time is up. We are all too ready to throw the baby out with the bath water; after the 2015 season and the culmination of all our dreams in 2016, Bevo deserves our full backing. Make sure all the ducks are lined up first with the review and shake-up, then pass judgment after two full years with these in place. Give him an extension to 2022 with a caveat ... finals in 2021 and 2022 or gone.

[GVGjr]

I agree we need a external review of our footy department, I agree there should be an assistant coach shake-up, but I disagree that Bevo’s time is up. We are all too ready to throw the baby out with the bath water; after the 2015 season and the culmination of all our dreams in 2016, Bevo deserves our full backing. Make sure all the ducks are lined up first with the review and shake-up, then pass judgment after two full years with these in place. Give him an extension to 2022 with a caveat ... finals in 2021 and 2022 or gone.

Just a question though, did Bevo take on a talented team in 2015 that was looking for a fresh approach and a different voice and one that just appreciated the way he went about things and then responded sensationally well? And after that ultimate win that same voice and approach couldn't spark them back into being hungry beasts? As a boss it's always good to take over from someone who lost the group because they are looking for someone to back them and most importantly lead them. Bevo is working with a different group now that probably requires a different leadership approach from him.

[azabob]

Why did Montgomery leave? Jumped or pushed?

Pushed. He thought he was headed in one direction and the club thought otherwise.

[bulldogsthru&thru]

Of course Bevo must be under pressure. It’d be complacent from the club if he wasn’t. Although there does seem to be a fair bit of complacency about the club these days. Let’s face it, this is now 3 years where we have seen no change whatsoever. The coaching group, the hopeless forward entries, the pathetic goal kicking, pathetic overall skills, disorganised forward half, always getting killed on transition, no smarts in the marking contest - be it in the marking contest or crumbing the spill, playing players out of position, playing the same old players etc. I mean we’ve all spoken about these things for some time now. At first I thought I’m an amateur in afl coaching, Bevo knows best, but these are weaknesses that continue to kill us week in week out. No injuries to complain about this year. We’ve also seen some players go to other clubs and have success. Patience has run out for Bev. We must improve and improve now. The honeymoon is well and truly over and the heat needs to be turned up

[boydogs]

Not a good game from Bevo but first quarter against GC aside he was going fine. Hopefully he can turn it around

[Scraggers]

Just a question though, did Bevo take on a talented team in 2015 that was looking for a fresh approach and a different voice and one that just appreciated the way he went about things and then responded sensationally well? And after that ultimate win that same voice and approach couldn't spark them back into being hungry beasts? As a boss it's always good to take over from someone who lost the group because they are looking for someone to back them and most importantly lead them. Bevo is working with a different group now that probably requires a different leadership approach from him.

Bevo also inherited the assistant coaches bar-one. It's the Ross Lyon theory ... taking a talented group that next step. But what Lyon has endured with a change of talent, lack of form, horrible losses etc, he is now seeing the fruits of a board that was willing to stick with him. Bevo needs (deserves) our full backing and the board's full support. The review should be clinical with the understanding that he is the man ... he is our leader ... he is the coach that will take us to our next finals and ultimate success.

[ratsmac]

Luck is finding 50 bucks on the floor. We didn't get lucky or fluke a premiership. Anyone who has played just one quarter of footy knows that luck won't make you put your head over the ball or gut run the length of the ground just to be an option. It takes skill effort determination and any other cliche that fits because it's true. Luck had nothing to do with it.

Bevo is safe IMO but his staff could do with a clean out like Richmond did at the end of 2016.

[Twodogs]

Mentioned on many posts over the last 12 months. Gorden you need to show some leadership now!

As the great EJ said. Do something!

Wasn't that John Kennedy? (Don't think, just do. Do something, tackle, block, that way when you come off the ground you can say "I did something")


Why did Montgomery leave? Jumped or pushed?

He wanted a senior coaching role and left to concentrate on getting one.


Luck is finding 50 bucks on the floor. We didn't get lucky or fluke a premiership. Anyone who has played just one quarter of footy knows that luck won't make you put your head over the ball or gut run the length of the ground just to be an option. It takes skill effort determination and any other cliche that fits because it's true. Luck had nothing to do with it.

Bevo is safe IMO but his staff could do with a clean out like Richmond did at the end of 2016.


Technically that's 'theft by finding' and is a criminal offence.

The rest of your post is correct and your point about what Richmond did at the end of 2016 is a very good one. Hardwick didn't want to lose any of his assistants but wasn't given a choice.

[DOG GOD]

Just listened to Bevo’s post match rundown through the bulldogs members thingo.

No mention of goal kicking, more so just the poor disposal and decision making, which they’ll continue to work on, as they do each week.

Also mentioned that we were short down back and with Freo also having a fairly tall fwd line, we will have to look at that.

And what I found very interesting is that he seemed happy with Hayes and young’s debut games, giving them a look into what they will offer the club going fwd. what griped me the most was saying that guys who play well in the VFL will be rewarded, hence them being selected, so what of trengrove and lippa ? Obvious favouritism If I’ve ever seen it.

Interesting 3 min listen, but no mention of team selection and why they decided to go small against Carlton so to speak, no mention of goal kicking and what they are going to do about it, and pretty much an “untruth” about rewarding VFL form. Hmmm.

[bornadog]

Just listened to Bevo’s post match rundown through the bulldogs members thingo.

No mention of goal kicking, more so just the poor disposal and decision making, which they’ll continue to work on, as they do each week.

Also mentioned that we were short down back and with Freo also having a fairly tall fwd line, we will have to look at that.

And what I found very interesting is that he seemed happy with Hayes and young’s debut games, giving them a look into what they will offer the club going fwd. what griped me the most was saying that guys who play well in the VFL will be rewarded, hence them being selected, so what of trengrove and lippa ? Obvious favouritism If I’ve ever seen it.

Interesting 3 min listen, but no mention of team selection and why they decided to go small against Carlton so to speak, no mention of goal kicking and what they are going to do about it, and pretty much an “untruth” about rewarding VFL form. Hmmm.

He has already mentioned goal kicking in his presso after the game.

[DOG GOD]

He has already mentioned goal kicking in his presso after the game.

Apologies, didn’t see it. Thanks Bornadog...but what did he say? Did he mention about getting someone like Wayne Carey or Brian Taylor down to the club to sort the boys out? I guess not?

[bornadog]

Apologies, didn’t see it. Thanks Bornadog...but what did he say? Did he mention about getting someone like Wayne Carey or Brian Taylor down to the club to sort the boys out? I guess not?

Yeah, that is what we need. Lindsay Gilbee would be good to have back.

[Grantysghost]

Yeah, that is what we need. Lindsay Gilbee would be good to have back.

Hell no to Lindsay.

[Twodogs]

Apologies, didn’t see it. Thanks Bornadog...but what did he say? Did he mention about getting someone like Wayne Carey or Brian Taylor down to the club to sort the boys out? I guess not?

Brian Taylor was our last goalkicking coach back in the Rocket days believe it or not.

[ratsmac]

Yeah, that is what we need. Lindsay Gilbee would be good to have back.

Yes, that is exactly what we need. The Lindsay Gilbee treatment!!

[Rocket Science]

Apologies, didn’t see it. Thanks Bornadog...but what did he say? Did he mention about getting someone like Wayne Carey or Brian Taylor down to the club to sort the boys out? I guess not?

After an early "we missed fairly easy goals" line, Bevo finished up replying to a question about kicking for goal and the inaccuracy that's plagued us for a couple of years and whether it's a consideration with regard to the way we train ...

"Uh yeah *exasperated sigh* it's a continual frustration".

He qualified that by stating we had too many long range shots that fell short, which they'd apparently addressed in the post-game player meeting that they need to be better at (whether that's better kicking penetration or working the ball closer to goal I'm not sure), then mentioned a couple of telling misses early in the 3rd that would've put us back within a couple of kicks only to have the Blues go up the other end and score "twelve point plays".

Clearly frustrated, "we just have to be better. Whether it's the pressures of the game and the environment we just need to deal with it and we'll keep trying to help our players and give them the tools, it's not like we don't train it, and making sure it's under the intensity and environment it should be is something we'll continue to look at".

It's some comfort that the cockroach has had a gutful of it too I suppose.

[LostDoggy]

Our team selections against Carlton were taking the piss. We all would have done better. Undersized and inexperienced for no good reason. Reminiscent of last years early rounds.
This week I’ve seen a lot of questioning of Bevo, I’m in for the first time. Play our best players in their best positions.
Will Hayes is not the future of this club.

[Twodogs]

After an early "we missed fairly easy goals" line, Bevo finished up replying to a question about kicking for goal and the inaccuracy that's plagued us for a couple of years and whether it's a consideration with regard to the way we train ...

"Uh yeah *exasperated sigh* it's a continual frustration".

He qualified that by stating we had too many long range shots that fell short, which they'd apparently addressed in the post-game player meeting that they need to be better at (whether that's better kicking penetration or working the ball closer to goal I'm not sure), then mentioned a couple of telling misses early in the 3rd that would've put us back within a couple of kicks only to have the Blues go up the other end and score "twelve point plays".

Clearly frustrated, "we just have to be better. Whether it's the pressures of the game and the environment we just need to deal with it and we'll keep trying to help our players and give them the tools, it's not like we don't train it, and making sure it's under the intensity and environment it should be is something we'll continue to look at".

It's some comfort that the cockroach has had a gutful of it too I suppose.

Then they are wasting their time by not teaching the basic skill of kicking properly.

Its a simple 3 or 4 step process and doesn't need to be complicated by filling the players head with a lot of nonsense.

I have been saying for ages to give me the worst kick in the team for 15 minutes and I will make him a better kick.

[Eastdog]

Twodogs for our new goalkicking coach.

[Twodogs]

Twodogs for our new goalkicking coach.

You tell 'em Easty.

[Eastdog]

You tell 'em Easty.

Certainly could teach our players a few things. Could assist the goalkicking coach at training. Goalkicking should be mandatory at Bulldog training sessions.

[Twodogs]

Certainly could teach our players a few things. Could assist the goalkicking coach at training. Goalkicking should be mandatory at Bulldog training sessions.

Goalkicking is a mandatory aspect of training whenever I've been there. They just don't do it in a professional manner.

[Eastdog]

Goalkicking is a mandatory aspect of training whenever I've been there. They just don't do it in a professional manner.

Need to get that aspect of it back.

[Twodogs]

Need to get that aspect of it back.

Actually in all the time I have been watching training they have never done it properly.

[Eastdog]

Thanks for that insight Twodogs. Certainly don’t get to training much ( only really GF training at WO in 2016) so good to know a bit of what actually happens there.

[azabob]

Goalkicking is a mandatory aspect of training whenever I've been there. They just don't do it in a professional manner.

That’s ok, it isn’t a professional manner on game day either.

[ledge]

Bevo looked a little lost in his chat , looks like a coach struggling and under pressure.
First time i have seen him looking like that.
Didn’t really answer the fans/ media questions that are blaringly obvious and what he would do about it, kind of danced around it in my eyes.
My thoughts of what he should have talked about and what he would do to fix it are :
1 Why continually refuse to have two talls/ ruckman.
2 Marvel doesn’t get rain why do we go small ?
3 We are continually bombing the ball forward, we recruit forwards but you continue to throw them in the ruck.
4 All teams we play against go tall and beat us, it’s a given, when are you going to see it?
5 Goal kicking? Where’s the expert at training?
6 Are the midfield and forward coach strangers because it seems they are the furthest away from connecting I have ever seen.

[DOG GOD]

The thing that frustrates me the most with our goal kicking are the EASY misses. The ones from within 30 metres almost directly in front, and the majority of these don’t get anywhere near the goal umpire, unless he’s running hard left or right...it’s frustrating and demoralising to watch it, imagine being out on the ground bombarding 15 inside 50’s to finally get a set shot 30 out directly in front, and shanking it...it’s shots AFL footballers should be getting, EVERY time, but other than a handful of players, I’m not confident at all watching the player kick.

I don’t believe for a second it’s all between the ears. Some players take a few steps, others look completely broken walking in to kick the ball. We don’t have a player that demands the ball and THRIVES in the opportunity to kick goals for this team. We need to find those players ASAP.

[bornadog]

The thing that frustrates me the most with our goal kicking are the EASY misses. The ones from within 30 metres almost directly in front, and the majority of these don’t get anywhere near the goal umpire, unless he’s running hard left or right...it’s frustrating and demoralising to watch it, imagine being out on the ground bombarding 15 inside 50’s to finally get a set shot 30 out directly in front, and shanking it...it’s shots AFL footballers should be getting, EVERY time, but other than a handful of players, I’m not confident at all watching the player kick.

I don’t believe for a second it’s all between the ears. Some players take a few steps, others look completely broken walking in to kick the ball. We don’t have a player that demands the ball and THRIVES in the opportunity to kick goals for this team. We need to find those players ASAP.

I think it is between the ears. I think it is playing on the players minds. You watch them at training or pre match and they sail through the goals from every angle.

[Bulldog4life]

Twodogs for our new goalkicking coach.

I vote you Easty as Twodogs assistant.

[GVGjr]

I think it is between the ears. I think it is playing on the players minds. You watch them at training or pre match and they sail through the goals from every angle.

I'm sure that is a part of it but when the same players will miss to the same side on numerous occasions at training and in the games it's an indication the coaching isn't what it needs to be as well.

The other week Bont pushed 3 shots to his left and never looked like making an adjustment.

[bornadog]

I'm sure that is a part of it but when the same players will miss to the same side on numerous occasions at training and in the games it's an indication the coaching isn't what it needs to be as well.

The other week Bont pushed 3 shots to his left and never looked like making an adjustment.

Does he do that at training?

[Greystache]

He's done but we won't make the call.

The season's playing out largely the way I was expecting (except Sydney being much more shit), skills are worse year on year, goal kicking is the worst in the history of the sport, defence leaks like a sieve, and the team can't score. There's no obvious signs of the style we even want to play other than have 22 players hovering between the two 50m arcs having little impact.

Beveridge has a contract for next year so the club needs to have a very direct and blunt review with him and see if he even wants to coach on next year. He looks tired, disinterested, and totally lacking in ideas. If he does want to stay on we tell him we're making wholesale changes to the rest of the coaching panel and he can have some but limited input into those changes. Again if he's not happy he can stand down.

I think we have to accept he is a one trick pony, he brought the Hawthorn defensive plan with him, released some players who'd been restricted, and made some left field calls that all came together perfectly for his first two seasons. Since then there's practically nothing that's worked. Teams pick apart our game style, weak areas continue to get worse, and left field calls are getting more and more ridiculous and almost never come off.

The end of next season will be 4 years since we he won the flag and given there's likely to have been 4 years of regression since then it's entirely reasonable to move on.

[ratsmac]

Technically that's 'theft by finding' and is a criminal offence.

The rest of your post is correct and your point about what Richmond did at the end of 2016 is a very good one. Hardwick didn't want to lose any of his assistants but wasn't given a choice.

So does that mean we stole the premiership!!!

[Ghost Dog]

He's done but we won't make the call.

The season's playing out largely the way I was expecting (except Sydney being much more shit), skills are worse year on year, goal kicking is the worst in the history of the sport, defence leaks like a sieve, and the team can't score. There's no obvious signs of the style we even want to play other than have 22 players hovering between the two 50m arcs having little impact.

Beveridge has a contract for next year so the club needs to have a very direct and blunt review with him and see if he even wants to coach on next year. He looks tired, disinterested, and totally lacking in ideas. If he does want to stay on we tell him we're making wholesale changes to the rest of the coaching panel and he can have some but limited input into those changes. Again if he's not happy he can stand down.

I think we have to accept he is a one trick pony, he brought the Hawthorn defensive plan with him, released some players who'd been restricted, and made some left field calls that all came together perfectly for his first two seasons. Since then there's practically nothing that's worked. Teams pick apart our game style, weak areas continue to get worse, and left field calls are getting more and more ridiculous and almost never come off.

The end of next season will be 4 years since we he won the flag and given there's likely to have been 4 years of regression since then it's entirely reasonable to move on.

Isn't this bit pessimistic? Besides the Carlton fiasco we have been up to our eyeballs in most games. Perhaps this is the most frustrating thing. We are underperforming badly. I'm really concerned because we have the weapons, every reason to put better systems in place.
I remember a time when McCartney was playing around with the chess pieces and it just wasn't working. It smacked of desperation then, and it does now, or lack of respect for our opponents ( Carlton game selections ). It's time he went back to basics. We need Lloyd and a couple of experienced guys down there to at least compete, lead and run their defence a bit. Dickson and Gowers are too slow. If our mids can kick some and our forwards do their job we will jag some decent games this season.

Bont, Lloyd, Naughton forward will work eventually if we stick at it and give them time to gel. If our mids are as good as their potential with Wallis, Libba and Co, no reason why we can't get some wins. These boys have to realise, easy misses totally negate all momentum with the first few wins of the season and I think Bevo said as much in the presser.

[FrediKanoute]

I agree GD. The Carlton game aside which was bluntly sh*t, we have been competitive and in a position to win games. We could with a little bit of luck be crowing that we are 5-1 or 4-2 instead of the other way round. I don't believe the game plane is a disaster. I think there is definitely effort and commitment. The problem is front half effectiveness, both getting scores from our inside 50's and also missing goals we should get.

Even against Carlton, as insipid as we had been we had a chance early in the last to put scoreboard pressure on them. We didn't and they took the ball away and scored a goal. Its demoralising to the guys in the midfield and backline who work so hard to see the guys in the front half squander easy opportunities!

[Mofra]

So apparently Bevo has fielded a younger side than his opposition in 80 of his 99 games.
Does he get any credit for trying to develop our next successful side? He's something like 85% winning percentage when he has a more experienced team than the opposition.

[bornadog]

So apparently Bevo has fielded a younger side than his opposition in 80 of his 99 games.
Does he get any credit for trying to develop our next successful side? He's something like 85% winning percentage when he has a more experienced team than the opposition.

No matter what people say, inexperienced sides will always find it hard against the more experienced sides.

I am excited we have some great young players, just have to make sure they stick together.

I thought the same after the premiership, but guys like Stringer, Dahl, Hamling are just ungrateful for the opportunity given to them and to help create a dynasty. You would have thought they would have stuck to together.

[mjp]

I'm sure that is a part of it but when the same players will miss to the same side on numerous occasions at training and in the games it's an indication the coaching isn't what it needs to be as well.

The other week Bont pushed 3 shots to his left and never looked like making an adjustment.

Left foot, left hand, left post.

Right foot, right hand, right post.

Malcolm Blight, come on down.

[mjp]

So apparently Bevo has fielded a younger side than his opposition in 80 of his 99 games.
Does he get any credit for trying to develop our next successful side? He's something like 85% winning percentage when he has a more experienced team than the opposition.

I'm a Bevo defender here but I do have a bit of an issue with this stat.

We didn't/don't have to always pick such a young and inexperienced side. When we have more experienced players being left out of the side based on form/coaches decision, well, you shouldn't get to play this card. Even in 2016 I seem to remember so much of our optimism came from the fact that it was the 'least experienced premiership side' since the Hawks in '08 (or something). But since then we have seen premiership players such as Roughead, Fletcher and Biggs languish in the 2's when fit, healthy and 'able' to play.

(And yes, I know the stories about Biggs losing his focus mentally etc, but some of that comes down to coaching (surely)).

In short, the inexperienced thing is real, but when you do it (seemingly) on purpose, well, is it that real?

[Rocket Science]

We've showed patches of something resembling cohesive football but not sure I'd put our present ladder predicament down to a little bit of luck ...

The game plan seems to rely on our talented mids dictating terms, which they're capable of against most. If they don't have it their way though our backline's routinely exploited.

Further, whether our mids are on top or not the collection of players we call a forward line can best be described as dysfunctional. We can force feed them all we like (yay, entries, lots of them) but if the diet is mostly junk, which given many of our front line mids can't kick the thing properly we're just fuelling our own demise ... intercepting half backs rub their hands together and before you know it our mids are chasing tail while Caleb Daniel's going one-on-one at full back against an opponent a foot taller.

Toss in half a side with 50 games or less on the clock, many of whom we though might kick on a bit after last year's encouraging last month but instead are trotting around at VFL level with nobody making a particularly convincing case for a call up despite a senior side full of *very* lucky troops and it's a bit bloody hard to be glass half full right now.

Let's see how things look at the end of May after running into Richmond, Brissy, Geelong (gulp) and Norf. Perhaps with a little bit of luck we won't be 2-and-8.

[Twodogs]

Left foot, left hand, left post.

Right foot, right hand, right post.

Malcolm Blight, come on down.

Yep, it's pretty simple really. Although I have trouble with the ''right foot, right hand'' bit, when I switch onto the right I have to drop the ball with both hands ala Phil or Jimmy Krakouer (that's where the comparisons end though unfortunately)

[bornadog]

The game plan seems to rely on our talented mids dictating terms, which they're capable of against most. If they don't have it their way though our backline's routinely exploited.

Isn't this the same for every team. Without a good midfield you are gone.


Further, whether our mids are on top or not the collection of players we call a forward line can best be described as dysfunctional. We can force feed them all we like (yay, entries, lots of them) but if the diet is mostly junk.

We are ranked 6th for marks inside 50, and second only has 5 more for the season to date. Inside 50 we are ranked second, which is a great stat as we know we can get the ball down there.

Our biggest issue is goal conversion. You look at Gowers and against the Suns and Carlton took 6 marks in each game and in both games his conversion was 1.2. He has kicked 8.8 to date.

[Rocket Science]

Isn't this the same for every team. Without a good midfield you are gone.

Spot on, but when it's the only ace in the deck you're asking for trouble ... which may explain why our mids are, according to the coach himself, "cooked".

[Grantysghost]

Left foot, left hand, left post.

Right foot, right hand, right post.

Malcolm Blight, come on down.

I'm left handed right footed. Was handy when expected to handball on the right.

[Mofra]

I'm a Bevo defender here but I do have a bit of an issue with this stat.

We didn't/don't have to always pick such a young and inexperienced side. When we have more experienced players being left out of the side based on form/coaches decision, well, you shouldn't get to play this card. Even in 2016 I seem to remember so much of our optimism came from the fact that it was the 'least experienced premiership side' since the Hawks in '08 (or something). But since then we have seen premiership players such as Roughead, Fletcher and Biggs languish in the 2's when fit, healthy and 'able' to play.

(And yes, I know the stories about Biggs losing his focus mentally etc, but some of that comes down to coaching (surely)).

In short, the inexperienced thing is real, but when you do it (seemingly) on purpose, well, is it that real?
TBH I'm not sure it's all choice - how much would Bevo love a fit Picken and Moz running around?
Boyd's had his issues and Hamling wanted out.

Chasing / adding Trengove, Crozier, Lloyd and Duryea (plus chasing Wingard / Impey) suggests to me the list managers know we are quite inexperienced and I don't think it's entirely by design.

[Ozza]

Isn't this the same for every team. Without a good midfield you are gone.



We are ranked 6th for marks inside 50, and second only has 5 more for the season to date. Inside 50 we are ranked second, which is a great stat as we know we can get the ball down there.

Our biggest issue is goal conversion. You look at Gowers and against the Suns and Carlton took 6 marks in each game and in both games his conversion was 1.2. He has kicked 8.8 to date.

We seem to have a heap of shallow entries. A lot of our set shots are from close to (or outside) the 50. We also lead to the boundary a bit - and are having shots from there. Defenders are obviously more inclined to 'give you' boundary side.

[mjp]

I'm left handed right footed. Was handy when expected to handball on the right.

Yes, but when you kick with your right foot you drop the ball with your right hand and you aim at the right hand post.

[Bulldog4life]

We seem to have a heap of shallow entries. A lot of our set shots are from close to (or outside) the 50. We also lead to the boundary a bit - and are having shots from there. Defenders are obviously more inclined to 'give you' boundary side.

Agree. How many times have I seen a player running in on the arc to get better depth but instead of going towards goal the ball goes in the direction of the arc. Infuriating.

[Danjul]

TBH I'm not sure it's all choice - how much would Bevo love a fit Picken and Moz running around?
Boyd's had his issues and Hamling wanted out.

Chasing / adding Trengove, Crozier, Lloyd and Duryea (plus chasing Wingard / Impey) suggests to me the list managers know we are quite inexperienced and I don't think it's entirely by design.

Of course it is by design. Look at the selected team against Carlton.

A novice ruckman who had 6 hitouts the week before and no support.

The tallest Backman was 192 cm when two opposition forwards were over 200 cm (and kicked nearly as many goals as our whole team). Cordy has kicked the ball 7 times (total) in the last three games.

one forward over 190 cm who had only played on the forward line 4 times and with no support. Not surprising that he had 2 marks and 5 disposals and no impact.

experienced players who could have an significant impact go to waste in the vfl. Trengove had 28 kicks,2 goals and 26 hitouts but was overlooked for a first gamer who had 12 possessions- actually, 11 others had more in that vfl game.

Bevo is seeing players as they will be in 5 years, not as they are now. The supporters see wasted opportunity for success now and groan.

[mjp]

We seem to have a heap of shallow entries. A lot of our set shots are from close to (or outside) the 50. We also lead to the boundary a bit - and are having shots from there. Defenders are obviously more inclined to 'give you' boundary side.

If you read 'Footballistics', it will tell you (amongst other things) that the team that wins the i50 count wins the game 74.2% of the time (or at least they did between 2008r1 and the 2017GF).

This number doesn't discriminate between deep entries, shallow entries, wide entries, re-entries...it is just Inside 50's. What it means is that if we keep winning the i50 count but losing the game then that is a statistical anomaly. What stats are more meaningful to winning than I50's? Well, there's only ONE. Total Kicks - the team that kicks the ball more wins 77.9% of the time.

Last week we won the i50's. But FREO won the kick count (and the game).

vs Collingwood, we were dead even for kicks. And i50's. The 3rd indicator is uncontested possession (69.5%) which we won...the 4th indicator is contested possession (69.4%) which we lost...what can I tell you, it was a close game.

What does all of this mean? Kick the ball? I don't know. I still thing the loss to Collingwood was a good performance and if we could recreate that footy we'd be OK.

[Danjul]

If you read 'Footballistics', it will tell you (amongst other things) that the team that wins the i50 count wins the game 74.2% of the time (or at least they did between 2008r1 and the 2017GF).

This number doesn't discriminate between deep entries, shallow entries, wide entries, re-entries...it is just Inside 50's. What it means is that if we keep winning the i50 count but losing the game then that is a statistical anomaly. What stats are more meaningful to winning than I50's? Well, there's only ONE. Total Kicks - the team that kicks the ball more wins 77.9% of the time.

Last week we won the i50's. But FREO won the kick count (and the game).

vs Collingwood, we were dead even for kicks. And i50's. The 3rd indicator is uncontested possession (69.5%) which we won...the 4th indicator is contested possession (69.4%) which we lost...what can I tell you, it was a close game.

What does all of this mean? Kick the ball? I don't know. I still thing the loss to Collingwood was a good performance and if we could recreate that footy we'd be OK.

Another statistic is .....

in all Four losses this year the team that defeated the Dogs had a discarded bulldog on their backline. Harrow, Roughead, Jones and Hamling.

I think it means keep good players and play them in their correct position.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Another statistic is .....

in all Four losses this year the team that defeated the Dogs had a discarded bulldog on their backline. Harrow, Roughead, Jones and Hamling.

I think it means keep good players and play them in their correct position.
We are in a similar position at the moment with Maclean Richards Trengrove and Naughton being played out of position.

[ledge]

Another statistic is .....

in all Four losses this year the team that defeated the Dogs had a discarded bulldog on their backline. Harrow, Roughead, Jones and Hamling.

I think it means keep good players and play them in their correct position.

Jones being the exception, he left as a forward and was tried as a forward at Carlton , he was on his last legs and they threw him down back as he wasn’t getting near it up forward.
He became a backman more by accident than design.

[mjp]

Another statistic is .....

in all Four losses this year the team that defeated the Dogs had a discarded bulldog on their backline. Harrow, Roughead, Jones and Hamling.

I think it means keep good players and play them in their correct position.

Umm - Harbrow and Hamling weren't discarded...

That's just making up facts to suit your point of view.

Jones was a forward as a junior and we played him EXCLUSIVELY as a forward...maybe (MAYBE) had he been thrown around a little more he might have made a go of it as a defender at our club? Who knows.

[bornadog]

Umm - Harbrow and Hamling weren't discarded...

That's just making up facts to suit your point of view.

Jones was a forward as a junior and we played him EXCLUSIVELY as a forward...maybe (MAYBE) had he been thrown around a little more he might have made a go of it as a defender at our club? Who knows.

Jones ended up playing in the backline with the Northern Blues. I am not sure how long for but, eventually tried at Carlton.

[Scraggers]

Another statistic is .....

in all Four losses this year the team that defeated the Dogs had a discarded bulldog on their backline. Harrow, Roughead, Jones and Hamling.

I think it means keep good players and play them in their correct position.

I'll give you Roughead ... disappointed we lost him, would have preferred to keep him.
Jones? He was a forward, had never played back. If it wasn't for the Carlton match committee/coaches, he'd be selling real estate in some hick town right now (hardly keeping him in his correct position). Hamling was a real loss ... Bevo freely admits that, but it was Hamling's choice. We had offered him a substantial contract to stay, he chose to return home. If by Harrow you mean Jarrod Harbrow, you're clutching at straws there. He left us in 2010 for an expansion club and we were compensated for that. we couldn't offer him the money he was given to leave and return home.

Only one of those you mention was discarded ... Roughead.

[Twodogs]

I'm left handed right footed. Was handy when expected to handball on the right.

I throw balls overarm right handed and underarm left handed. It's gotten me so many run outs playing cricket from cover and midoff. Batsman thinks "I've got him covered, he's gotta pick it up, balance and then throw it" and by the time they are halfway through thinking that to themselves it's time for them to tell their story walking!


Our biggest issue is goal conversion. You look at Gowers and against the Suns and Carlton took 6 marks in each game and in both games his conversion was 1.2. He has kicked 8.8 to date.

That sort of goalkicking return is just such a momentum killer.

[hujsh]

Umm - Harbrow and Hamling weren't discarded...

That's just making up facts to suit your point of view.

Jones was a forward as a junior and we played him EXCLUSIVELY as a forward...maybe (MAYBE) had he been thrown around a little more he might have made a go of it as a defender at our club? Who knows.

We didn't exactly discard Jones either. I remember we wanted to keep him but he chose to leave.

Roughead would be burnt in our backline. Good on him for finding a system where he can thrive as a Key Defender.

As you said the other two were very much desired but couldn't be retained.

[bulldogtragic]

We didn't exactly discard Jones either. I remember we wanted to keep him but he chose to leave.

Roughead would be burnt in our backline. Good on him for finding a system where he can thrive as a Key Defender.

As you said the other two were very much desired but couldn't be retained.

Correct you are. Jones & Tutt both threatened to walk to Carlton in the PSD, but we were trying to keep them. We traded Jones at the last part of the period for what we could get (mid 40's pick), and Tutt in fact quit and walked in the PSD to Carlton. I can't remember which one it was, said our fans were too mean.

[bornadog]

Correct you are. Jones & Tutt both threatened to walk to Carlton in the PSD, but we were trying to keep them. We traded Jones at the last part of the period for what we could get (mid 40's pick), and Tutt in fact quit and walked in the PSD to Carlton. I can't remember which one it was, said our fans were too mean.

Was he a WOOF reader :D:D:D

[Happy Days]

Carlton also tried to buy out Jones' contract before trying him back. Not that comparing player development and list management to Carlton is particularly endearing but I don't see how any club could have possibly seen his re-resurgence coming.

[Mofra]

Carlton also tried to buy out Jones' contract before trying him back. Not that comparing player development and list management to Carlton is particularly endearing but I don't see how any club could have possibly seen his re-resurgence coming.
We actually tried him back for short periods at VFL level, didn't work.
From what I've heard of the way B-Mac spoke to Jones I'm not surprised he left.

[FrediKanoute]

I throw balls overarm right handed and underarm left handed. It's gotten me so many run outs playing cricket from cover and midoff. Batsman thinks "I've got him covered, he's gotta pick it up, balance and then throw it" and by the time they are halfway through thinking that to themselves it's time for them to tell their story walking!



That sort of goalkicking return is just such a momentum killer.

Agree. Also his stats are misleading - his goal v Carlton came in junk time, the game was lost. When he had the chance to make a diffference he didn't, How many of Gowers 8 goals have come when the game was on the line v already over?

[Ghost Dog]

Jones was like Missy, always in the preseason articles, how he is set to improve, this is the year, etc.
Got a bit sick of it!

[SonofScray]

Bevo mentioned in his post game chat that he knows he gets criticised for players out of position. Offered some rationale. Wasn't super convincing. However, Trengove/Dunkley being in the team and used appropriately is pleasing and perhaps a sign he is prepared to shift a little. Coached well against Freo, got the rewards from a team that looked organised for a change tonight.

[The Pie Man]

Bevo mentioned in his post game chat that he knows he gets criticised for players out of position. Offered some rationale. Wasn't super convincing. However, Trengove/Dunkley being in the team and used appropriately is pleasing and perhaps a sign he is prepared to shift a little. Coached well against Freo, got the rewards from a team that looked organised for a change tonight.

Was an interesting response - from memory he was referring to Naughton. I wondered what criticism he had in mind...has anyone in the media pushed that barrow?

[azabob]

Was an interesting response - from memory he was referring to Naughton. I wondered what criticism he had in mind...has anyone in the media pushed that barrow?

Adam White on RSN mentioned it during the week and even last week from memory.

Then I heard snippets from Matthew Lloyd and a couple of others.

[Go_Dogs]

Adam White on RSN mentioned it during the week and even last week from memory.

Then I heard snippets from Matthew Lloyd and a couple of others.

It's interesting:-

Play a key defender in a key defensive post - tick, opposition and one of the games best key forwards kept goalless, also allowed Cordy to chop in the ruck where he did OK
Play Dunks in the middle - tick, Dunks monstered them around the clearance and Bont had even more swagger with his mate in there

Trengove won't always get a match up like that which suits him, but hopefully we continue to see a side each week with either Trengove or Lewy down back, subject to the speed and agility of the opposition player.

[bornadog]

It's interesting:-

Play a key defender in a key defensive post - tick, opposition and one of the games best key forwards kept goalless, also allowed Cordy to chop in the ruck where he did OK
Play Dunks in the middle - tick, Dunks monstered them around the clearance and Bont had even more swagger with his mate in there

Trengove won't always get a match up like that which suits him, but hopefully we continue to see a side each week with either Trengove or Lewy down back, subject to the speed and agility of the opposition player.

Trengove also did well against the Freo Talls, they didn't score at all.

[Go_Dogs]

Trengove also did well against the Freo Talls, they didn't score at all.

Agree, hes been good since coming back in.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

Why is it a surprise that playing players in their best position yields better results? Dunkley was fantastic and his role is critical to Bont. It’s ridiculous it took this long to roll out after Joshs big finish to last year.

Reality is we should only play two of Libba, Wallis and McLean. Dunkley is a beast mid and Libba is too, which means it comes down to one of Wallis and McLean. Otherwise we’re stuck continually playing multiple mids as forwards

[DOG GOD]

Why is it a surprise that playing players in their best position yields better results? Dunkley was fantastic and his role is critical to Bont. It’s ridiculous it took this long to roll out after Joshs big finish to last year.

Reality is we should only play two of Libba, Wallis and McLean. Dunkley is a beast mid and Libba is too, which means it comes down to one of Wallis and McLean. Otherwise we’re stuck continually playing multiple mids as forwards

Maybe we can play both McLean and Wallis, just not at the same time on the ground. I think both have something to offer the team. I’d rather see McLean more mid and Wallis more fwd though.

[bornadog]

Why is it a surprise that playing players in their best position yields better results? Dunkley was fantastic and his role is critical to Bont. It’s ridiculous it took this long to roll out after Joshs big finish to last year.

Reality is we should only play two of Libba, Wallis and McLean. Dunkley is a beast mid and Libba is too, which means it comes down to one of Wallis and McLean. Otherwise we’re stuck continually playing multiple mids as forwards

I heard Collingwood really gave it Libba and he hasn't been the same since, ie still recovering a bit. He started in the forward line again last night, and slowly got back into the midfield.

Many on here wanted to drop Dunks last week, but I thought he played his best game for the year against Freo. Last night in his 50th, he was a beast.

[hujsh]

I heard Collingwood really gave it Libba and he hasn't been the same since, ie still recovering a bit. He started in the forward line again last night, and slowly got back into the midfield.

Many on here wanted to drop Dunks last week, but I thought he played his best game for the year against Freo. Last night in his 50th, he was a beast.

Unless he played in the middle. Guess what he did last night?

[The bulldog tragician]

I heard Collingwood really gave it Libba and he hasn't been the same since, ie still recovering a bit. He started in the forward line again last night, and slowly got back into the midfield.

Many on here wanted to drop Dunks last week, but I thought he played his best game for the year against Freo. Last night in his 50th, he was a beast.
Interesting about Libba, can you elaborate?

[bornadog]

Interesting about Libba, can you elaborate?

What I understood was physically got into him.

[bornadog]

Watch a young Bevo - from Front Bar

https://twitter.com/thefrontbar7/status/1126440642018549760