Always Right Match Committee Thread Round 9, Vs Geelong

[Scraggers]

Welcome to the Always Right Match Committee Thread. The Match Committee threads has been named after long time WOOF member Always Right who tragically passed away in March 2018.


If you were on the Western Bulldogs match committee what changes would you make after our Round 8 match against Brisbane for our Round 9, 2019 match against Geelong at Kardinia Park?

For those new to these threads, please give a brief explanation for your changes ... this would add a lot of value to the discussion.

[GVGjr]

Sorry I missed this one

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Sorry I missed this one

Me too, Thanks scraggers

[Testekill]

I think that Fletch should stay in if English isn't ready to come back, he was fine today and we need Trengove as our number 1 ruck when English isn't in the team. Obviously changes are pending on tomorrows game but I'd like to see Lewy Young come in as he was a bit stiff to be dropped earlier this year.

[bornadog]

In: English

Out: Hayes

Which means we stay with the extra tall.

[FrediKanoute]

Tough game out there today and there will be some sore and tired bodies. Wouldn't be surprised if we swapped a couple of guys to allow them to freshen up.

[lemmon]

Tough match committee this week. Roberts did enough to stay in but English was stringing some pretty handy form together and clearly benefiting from the game time. Meanwhile Trengrove has put together two equally impressive performances at full back and in the ruck.

I don't think you can play Trengrove and Roberts in the same backline against a fairly small Geelong attack. Do you try and double team Stanley with English and Trengrove playing ruck/forward? Stanley's been in outstanding form.

[azabob]

Lemmon I like your thinking. Blicvas is also in great form who is a great match up for Naughton having Trengove down there may assist.

[Mantis]

After suggesting English was due for a rest before the BL game, I think it's the same for Bailey Smith... didn't seem to have the same zip yesterday playing on a heavy surface so I think a rest will do him well.

[GVGjr]

After suggesting English was due for a rest before the BL game, I think it's the same for Bailey Smith... didn't seem to have the same zip yesterday playing on a heavy surface so I think a rest will do him well.

I noticed that as well. It will be interesting to see if we manage him or just keep playing him.

[ledge]

I noticed that as well. It will be interesting to see if we manage him or just keep playing him.

I would bring in Lipinski or Webb for Smith.
If we want a bit taller maybe Young or Rourke Smith.

[Remi Moses]

After suggesting English was due for a rest before the BL game, I think it's the same for Bailey Smith... didn't seem to have the same zip yesterday playing on a heavy surface so I think a rest will do him well.

Thought the same . Bayley might need a spell

[DOG GOD]

Yep, lippa for Smith

[Rocco Jones]

English/Lewis Young for Roberts
Dale for Hayes
Williams for Lachie Young
Lipsinki for Smith (if sore)

Really hope English is right (should be if just the gen soreness) as I would like to see JT freed up to play on Hawkins. The Cats go Hawkins + smalls which really doesn't suit Fletch at all as he will struggle with Hawkins' strength. If English isn't right, I'd go Young for Roberts with Lewis spending time in the ruck.

Dale for Hayes, really adds a bit of class which we need. Lipsinki for Smith if he is sore rather than just an off game. Definitely looked sore to me as well.

Liked what Lachie Young is doing but thought Bailey Williams had a strong game in the twos today and we can do with as many good kicks as we can get.

Gowers is a worry at times, however we really have virtually no options of secondary forward who helps Naught compete in air. At least Billy kinda does it sometimes? Really would love to see the benchmark for that spot raised a bit. Schache just so meek in the air. Maybe Roarke? I know he is smaller but scrapping the barrel here. That said, Gowers had 3 inside 50 tackles vs Lions which is good going I guess.

[bornadog]

Williams with 31 disposals today. If he comes in where does he play?

[azabob]

Where is Liberatore at after his blistering opening to the season?

[bornadog]

Where is Liberatore at after his blistering opening to the season?

Played well yesterday with 23 disposals and 5 tackles. He has only had one quiet game and that was last week.

[kruder]

Out Hayes Roberts

In Dale English

We win a lot of the ball just think Dale can be more effective on the overlap than Hayes playing a similar role.
English straight back in with Trengove to play on Hawkins.

[hujsh]

Played well yesterday with 23 disposals and 5 tackles. He has only had one quiet game and that was last week.

Dockers and Blues were on the quiet side too though at least one of them saw him wasted on a flank/pocket all match.

Overall averaging 23.5 touches a game and 6.5 clearances (most since 2014 on both fronts) is a good return for him

[GVGjr]

I'd make a few changes but suspect that we won't

In Williams, R.Smith and if fit English or Lewis Young
Out Hayes, Lachlan Young and Roberts

[azabob]

I'd make a few changes but suspect that we won't

In Williams, R.Smith and if fit English or Lewis Young
Out Hayes, Lachlan Young and Roberts

Smith to all play forward or back?

[GVGjr]

Smith to all play forward or back?

A bit of both, probably more forward though
I've never been that impressed with him however, he has been playing well this year and has probably done enough to deserve a chance

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Williams was outstanding today against the Box Hill Hawks and should be selected.
The return of English will allow Trengrove to play on Hawkins. I still believe that Schache is a better option than Gowers
In. Williams English Schache
Out. Fletcher Hayes Gowers

[bornadog]

Williams was outstanding today against the Box Hill Hawks and should be selected.
The return of English will allow Trengrove to play on Hawkins. I still believe that Schache is a better option than Gowers
In. Williams English Schache
Out. Fletcher Hayes Gowers

I like those changes.

[Ozza]

Yeah I don't think we'll be making 3 or 4 changes after winning, and starting to get our act together for the season.

Out: Hayes; Roberts
In: Williams; English

Fletcher didn't do much wrong, but if English is right, then I don't think we need the extra tall v Geelong.
Williams is better than Hayes, Lipinski is better than Hayes, Bailey Dale is better than Hayes.....

[Mantis]

Where is Liberatore at after his blistering opening to the season?

He's playing on the HFF, which of course doesn't suit his skill set... but as he's been dropped as a primary midfielder Dunkley has been added and we've benefited, so I think they will continue to rotate in these roles.

[Ghost Dog]

Williams was outstanding today against the Box Hill Hawks and should be selected.
The return of English will allow Trengrove to play on Hawkins. I still believe that Schache is a better option than Gowers
In. Williams English Schache
Out. Fletcher Hayes Gowers

Got to feel sorry for Fletcher Roberts. I'd actually prefer him up forward than Gowers. He was a forward in his TAC years IIRC.
Bevo likes to play fruit salad. Why not give him a go.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Got to feel sorry for Fletcher Roberts.

Premiership hero? I think he probably accepts his lot - hes an eker who is part of the greatest premiership in the games history

[Jeanette54]

Where is Liberatore at after his blistering opening to the season?

You will always find Libba at the coalface. He does so much of the inside grunt work, which must be physically taxing. Ballarat's heavy conditions would just add to that load.

[craigsahibee]

Where is Liberatore at after his blistering opening to the season?

Libba has had a couple of defensive roles over the last two weeks. Don't worry about his numbers being down. He is still as important as ever.

[soupman]

I understand people not liking Gowers but don't see how you can drop him for Schache.

For all Gowers many faults he is aggressive, always involved and works hard as a foil for Naughton to benefit from. Gowers doesn't have to be good to have a net benefit to the team.

Schache on the other hand is meek, easily loses confidence and can dissapear from games. His spell in the VFL rather than being encouraging has been the opposite and he is by no means demanding or earning his selection back in the AFL side. I understand wanting to pump games into such a "talent" but it would be to the detriment of both Naughton and our side as a whole.

I've always believed that if you aren't a gun key forward then you need to be an aggressive one. Naughton is both, Cordy is most definitely the latter and 2016 is an excellent example of how someone with his limited skillset can have such an impact up forward in a role they aren't suited to through sheer determination and aggression despite being less experienced and smaller than a Schache thats had two more years in the system and infintely more "talent".

[hujsh]

I understand people not liking Gowers but don't see how you can drop him for Schache.

For all Gowers many faults he is aggressive, always involved and works hard as a foil for Naughton to benefit from. Gowers doesn't have to be good to have a net benefit to the team.

Schache on the other hand is meek, easily loses confidence and can dissapear from games. His spell in the VFL rather than being encouraging has been the opposite and he is by no means demanding or earning his selection back in the AFL side. I understand wanting to pump games into such a "talent" but it would be to the detriment of both Naughton and our side as a whole.

I've always believed that if you aren't a gun key forward then you need to be an aggressive one. Naughton is both, Cordy is most definitely the latter and 2016 is an excellent example of how someone with his limited skillset can have such an impact up forward in a role they aren't suited to through sheer determination and aggression despite being less experienced and smaller than a Schache thats had two more years in the system and infintely more "talent".

I think what you say is fair.

One benefit to Naughton's emergence forward (aside from the obvious ones) is we don't 'need' Schache or Boyd in the team immediately. They can earn their spot or work on their deficiencies in the VFL as required by the team.

[mjp]

I understand people not liking Gowers but don't see how you can drop him for Schache.


Gowers is great. I actually don't understand why people don't like him.

He is frustrating. But he has a go, upsets the opposition and generally makes a net positive impact. I would have said he was a core part of this current team.

[Happy Days]

Gowers hasn't had over 10 possessions in 3 weeks and only once in 5. He's got 3.7 in that time to go with a whopping 9 tackles. I agree to an extent that he doesn't have to play a good game to be valuable but he's giving us absolutely nothing right now.

[Axe Man]

Gower's positives generally outweigh his negatives but his last few weeks have been a little disappointing. He will always have some brain fade moments but I saw a couple of efforts up close on Saturday that were poor. Unfortunately I don't think we have anybody else that can play the same role at present.

[comrade]

If it’s Gowers or Schache, you take Gowers every time at this point.

Just highlights a massive hole in our list that we have so few viable forward options available to us.

[bornadog]

Gower's positives generally outweigh his negatives but his last few weeks have been a little disappointing. He will always have some brain fade moments but I saw a couple of efforts up close on Saturday that were poor. Unfortunately I don't think we have anybody else that can play the same role at present.

I have stuck up for Gowers, but like you watching him on Saturday, well he may as well just sat on the bench and we played 17 on the field. He must do more, otherwise he should be in the VFL.

[S Coast Simon]

Bloody Ablett gets let off two weeks in a row for elbows to the head. What a joke it has become, even worse than a few years ago. Christian is an absolute joke. What a little puppet he has become. Our bloke gets three weeks for a shove to the chest.

[ledge]

I have stuck up for Gowers, but like you watching him on Saturday, well he may as well just sat on the bench and we played 17 on the field. He must do more, otherwise he should be in the VFL.

Isn’t it funny how the inner sanctum see players , Bevos chat this week to members mentioned how Gowers has sacrificed his game for Naughton, especially the last two weeks, so as much as you say he didn’t do anything on the weekend Bevo commended him for his efforts and thinks he is doing what they want of him at the moment.
Personally I see exactly what Bevo sees, he is intimidating the opposition, he presents and makes a defender stick to him, I actually thought he had a good game, yeah he stuffs up at times but it’s actually making space for Naughton, he runs a long way out, taking a player with him, giving Naughton more space.

But I do see if he could just be more clean he would be more dangerous, but It was slippery and wet.

[Ozza]

Gowers is great. I actually don't understand why people don't like him.

He is frustrating. But he has a go, upsets the opposition and generally makes a net positive impact. I would have said he was a core part of this current team.

Agree with this. The only game I thought he was a liability was v Freo, where he wasn't able to halve a number of contests. Having said that, Freo are (at least they were at that point) the leading intercept team in the comp. I liked the way he fought back into the game on the weekend after not occupying Hodge or having an impact himself in the first half. Second half he was much better and he and Naughton worked better together - and you'd expect they would build on that in how they work together over time.

[josie]

I would rather Boyd or Schache kicking for goal than Gowers. He has to improve his goal kicking to stay in the team for mine, and yes I am aware of his benefits especially his aggression. Hoping Dickson becomes our goal kicking special list coach soon.

Knowing Bevo likes what Gowers brings and he is unlikely to be dropped I would like Lipinski or Williams or Dale brought plus English if he is injury free. Smith to be rested and Hayes to be dropped (bit too fumbly although I think he will come good) and depending upon expected Geelong forward line Fletcher omitted.

[Rocco Jones]

I think some fans are being a bit too negative about Schache long term, however short term, he simply cannot play until he works towards the things that got him dropped in the first place. Otherwise, what is the point? It would actually do more harm than just keeping him in.

With Gowers, I think he is the best of a few poor options in his role. Obviously very polarising with his strengths and weaknesses, but ultimately he did end up with 3 inside 50 marks and can compete in the air at times to help out Naughts. Roarke Smith is probably my next pick in that role, that's where we are at (no disrespect to Roarke, going alright at the minute and has other roles he can play).

[1eyedog]

My only issue with Gowers is his lack of accountability for his direct opponent and his second efforts when he is further than 30 metres out from goal. He just assumes he's not going to get the ball when he doesn't have it. Take a leaf out of the D. Morris handbook son and crack in!

[Ghost Dog]

Premiership hero? I think he probably accepts his lot - hes an eker who is part of the greatest premiership in the games history

People used to say the same thing about Liam Picken to me all the time. This is what he is. These are his limits.

[Testekill]

I hope one of our boys cracks Ablett in the head with an elbow since it's in the rules now. Maybe bring in Swweet to see if he'll make an impact on debut

[Mantis]

Gowers is great. I actually don't understand why people don't like him.

He is frustrating. But he has a go, upsets the opposition and generally makes a net positive impact. I would have said he was a core part of this current team.

I think 'great' might be over-playing his influence.

The difference between his best & worst games, best & worst quarters and best & worst efforts is far too great to be considered great.

[bornadog]

I think 'great' might be over-playing his influence.

The difference between his best & worst games, best & worst quarters and best & worst efforts is far too great to be considered great.

Not wrong there.

Last three games:

Disposals: 6,6,9
Goals: 0, 2,1
GA: 0,1,2

Back to VFL.

[Mofra]

Not wrong there.

Last three games:

Disposals: 6,6,9
Goals: 0, 2,1
GA: 0,1,2

Back to VFL.
A goal per game average + assist per game average while blocking for Naughton?

There's nobody at VFL level capable of that. If anything, I'd play him up the ground less and leave him as a full time forward. McLean can take the occasional wing rotation Gowers seems to be taking (and Dickson the week before).

[Rocket Science]

A goal per game average + assist per game average while blocking for Naughton?

There's nobody at VFL level capable of that. If anything, I'd play him up the ground less and leave him as a full time forward. McLean can take the occasional wing rotation Gowers seems to be taking (and Dickson the week before).

He'd help his cause if he was a little more subtle with his picks. He's up there for frees against and has managed to get away with a few blatant ones as well, mostly in-the-backs, but that luck won't hold.

[Cyberdoggie]

Gowers hasn't had over 10 possessions in 3 weeks and only once in 5. He's got 3.7 in that time to go with a whopping 9 tackles. I agree to an extent that he doesn't have to play a good game to be valuable but he's giving us absolutely nothing right now.

Have to agree here, when he's on song it think he has a place but he's been well short of that for the majority of the year. Should of won the game against the G.C, misses goals he just has to kick and can make some blunders. I'm prepared to wear that if he gives us something in return but it's just not happening of late.

Having said that against the cats we need some targets that can take a mark or compete in the air. We have been caught out down at KP a few times because we just didn't have targets that could take a grab, and the cats defense would dominate us on the narrow ground. Roberts will have to play this game for some cover down back, as will Gowers up forward as we don't have anyone else who can compete. He will be judged solely on just not losing a contest and possibly causing a stoppage up forward for us to reset.
I don't want to see Dale in the side for this game, prefer Lipinski as he as been consistently putting in good efforts in the 2's, and always seems to be getting a few tackles.

[1eyedog]

A goal per game average + assist per game average while blocking for Naughton?

There's nobody at VFL level capable of that. If anything, I'd play him up the ground less and leave him as a full time forward. McLean can take the occasional wing rotation Gowers seems to be taking (and Dickson the week before).

Schache was doing better than that and chopping out in the ruck before he was dropped. I know, go figure.

[soupman]

Schache was doing better than that and chopping out in the ruck before he was dropped. I know, go figure.

Not sure if serious?

For all Gowers faults he has not had a game where he went completely missing like Schache did against Collingwood, consistently impacts packs and brings the ball to ground (something Schache doesn't do), creates space for and helps protect Naughton (something Shcache can do) and is rarely not in the contest (something Schache struggles with).

I like Schache but he has neither the consistency nor competitiveness that Gowers brings and neither does anyone else on our list that isn't already playing. Combined with mediocre at best VFL performances leaves me wondering how people can call for him to replace Gowers.

[1eyedog]

Not sure if serious?

For all Gowers faults he has not had a game where he went completely missing like Schache did against Collingwood, consistently impacts packs and brings the ball to ground (something Schache doesn't do), creates space for and helps protect Naughton (something Shcache can do) and is rarely not in the contest (something Schache struggles with).

I like Schache but he has neither the consistency nor competitiveness that Gowers brings and neither does anyone else on our list that isn't already playing. Combined with mediocre at best VFL performances leaves me wondering how people can call for him to replace Gowers.

I'm semi-serious. I understand the immediate value a player like Gowers brings and I'm prepared to acknowledge it may / does help Naughton, who only just fell into the forward role recently. I still can't shake the feeling that Gowers' worth is over-estimated. I agree that Gowers gets to more contests than Schache but his decision making and skills often let him down, so to me that kinda cancels that out. Schache has a far higher ceiling and uses the ball so much better and we should be playing him with clear instructions to create that space Naughton needs. Also opposition teams don't need to put their second best KB on Gowers, they can match him up with their best mid-sized player, so is he really contributing that much? At least Schache will take their second best tall aerialist which would assist Naughton even more on one on ones.

Schache may be a very good player for us in the future and needs games, Gowers isn't the future he fills an immediate need and hurts us with his lack of efforts. There was one example on Saturday at half forward where he made two half-hearted efforts to chase his opponents, he only made the second effort because his opponent fumbled. If he had of committed the first time he may have caused a turnover. This lack of effort is Stringer-esque and he needs to be much better at these things if he's not being really good at the others.

[Axe Man]

Roberts will have to play this game for some cover down back

If English returns I can't see a role for Roberts. Trengove is our best matchup for Hawkins and the only other talls that make an appearance in the Geelong forward line are Stanley/Ratugolea when they aren't rucking or resting on the bench. Cordy can handle them. The rest are all smalls.

[Mofra]

Schache was doing better than that and chopping out in the ruck before he was dropped. I know, go figure.
The two games he played before being dropped were terrible, and he has contributed that poor form at VFL level. We simply can't reward such weak effort with promotion.

Naughton's two best games of the year were without Schache and with Gowers playing as Naughton's foil. The combo is working right now.

On the basis of English now being ruled out I expect we have no change, although I would have loved Trengove to be able to play down back on Hawkins.

[bornadog]

The two games he played before being dropped were terrible, and he has contributed that poor form at VFL level. We simply can't reward such weak effort with promotion.

Naughton's two best games of the year were without Schache and with Gowers playing as Naughton's foil. The combo is working right now.

On the basis of English now being ruled out I expect we have no change, although I would have loved Trengove to be able to play down back on Hawkins.

Schache - Two games in the VFL

Casey - 15 Disposals, 5 marks, 7 Tackles - seemed to play up the ground, so no opportunity to kick goals.
Hawks - 14 Disposals, 5 marks, 2 goals

Yes he had a shocker against the Pies, but was brilliant against Hawthorn early on. I would bring him in for all the reasons 1eyedog has pointed out.

Gowers - 6 disposals in the forward line doesn't cut it at AFL level. We are in the top 3 for inside 50s, so lots of opportunities.

[Axe Man]

Schache - Two games in the VFL

Casey - 15 Disposals, 5 marks, 7 Tackles - seemed to play up the ground, so no opportunity to kick goals.
Hawks - 14 Disposals, 5 marks, 2 goals

Yes he had a shocker against the Pies, but was brilliant against Hawthorn early on. I would bring him in for all the reasons 1eyedog has pointed out.

Gowers - 6 disposals in the forward line doesn't cut it at AFL level. We are in the top 3 for inside 50s, so lots of opportunities.

I've been disappointed by some of Billy's efforts lately but I don't think possession counts are high on his KPI's.

I also don't think that possessions are the key thing Schache was sent back to the VFL to work on. If his effort and attack on the ball have improved then he is a chance to return to the seniors. Like Gowers he doesn't have to have 20 possessions and take 10 marks to contribute. He needs to contest every ball he can, crash packs and prevent opposition intercept marks. If he clunks some himself and snags a few goals it's a bonus.

[bornadog]

I've been disappointed by some of Billy's efforts lately but I don't think possession counts are high on his KPI's.

I also don't think that possessions are the key thing Schache was sent back to the VFL to work on. If his effort and attack on the ball have improved then he is a chance to return to the seniors. Like Gowers he doesn't have to have 20 possessions and take 10 marks to contribute. He needs to contest every ball he can, crash packs and prevent opposition intercept marks. If he clunks some himself and snags a few goals it's a bonus.

I agree the possession count doesn't need to be high, but Billy's efforts the last two weeks have not been up to AFL standard. He did lay 5 tackles last week, but zero goals, and zero GA

[Axe Man]

On the basis of English now being ruled out I expect we have no change, although I would have loved Trengove to be able to play down back on Hawkins.

Did I miss something - when was English ruled out?

[bornadog]

Did I miss something - when was English ruled out?

I haven't seen anything either. Maybe Mofra has some inside news.

[Mofra]

Did I miss something - when was English ruled out?
No inside news, was in The Age this morning (at the end of Geelong's selection issues, Gary Rohan is 'doubtful')

[Axe Man]

Captain Joel Selwood should play after a strong training session on Monday after the Cats brought him into the clash against North Melbourne late then pulled him out at the death.

Gary Rohan is making strong progress from concussion and could take on the Dogs, while Tom Stewart is ready to play despite a neck injury.

Sam Menegola requires knee surgery on a piece of floating cartilage and will likely miss a month, while Lachie Henderson will miss several weeks with plantar fascia issues.

[1eyedog]

Hearing Ablett will be rested any word?

[ledge]

No change for us but cats bring in Selwood and Fort ( think that’s the guy who played at Footscray last year ) for Constable and Ratugalea.

[comrade]

Bevo continues to dig his heels in with Hayes.

Lipinski, Williams and Dale would be pretty miffed I'd imagine.

[bulldogtragic]

Bevo got interests in some ponies we don't know about?

Confused. Really confused.

[Remi Moses]

Once again surprised
Would have brought Lipinski in and Williams for Bailey Smith and Will Hayes

[Greystache]

I wonder what's really wrong with English and how many weeks he's going to miss.

[Bulldog4life]

I wonder what's really wrong with English and how many weeks he's going to miss.

Yes a bit long to still be sore. Be interested to hear what Bevo says in tomorrow's presser.

[bulldogtragic]

I wonder what's really wrong with English and how many weeks he's going to miss.

Anything to do with his footy boots?

[1eyedog]

I wonder what's really wrong with English and how many weeks he's going to miss.

Damn medical team again.

[Greystache]

Damn medical team again.

Got some inside word? Feel free to share it.

[Happy Days]

Seriously what did Williams do

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

Bevo continues to dig his heels in with Hayes.

Lipinski, Williams and Dale would be pretty miffed I'd imagine.

Williams deserved to be selected after being Footscray’s best player in their past two games. On the other hand Hayes has been ordinary.

[bulldogtragic]

Williams deserved to be selected after being Footscray’s best player in their past two games. On the other hand Hayes has been ordinary.

Got to soon hear from SA journo's saying he's not being selected because he's agreed to join 'insert either club here'. (True or not true)

[Danjul]

Bevo continues to dig his heels in with Hayes.

Lipinski, Williams and Dale would be pretty miffed I'd imagine.

I honestly cannot see the problem with Hayes.

in his 4 games he has had 66 possessions, 21 15 15 15.

Richards has had 52 and Smith 73.

only once this year has Richards had more than 15, and that was 16. He is averaging 12.

Last week Smith had only 10 (3 kicks).

personally, I would rotate all three through the vfl to keep them fresh and help them develop their skills further.

[comrade]

I honestly cannot see the problem with Hayes.

in his 4 games he has had 66 possessions, 21 15 15 15.

Richards has had 52 and Smith 73.

only once this year has Richards had more than 15, and that was 16. He is averaging 12.

Last week Smith had only 10 (3 kicks).

personally, I would rotate all three through the vfl to keep them fresh and help them develop their skills further.

Because possessions aren’t everything.

[Danjul]

Because possessions aren’t everything.

Smith’s 10 possessions are better than 15 and a goal? What else did he do? I was there and I didn’t see it.

what on earth is Richards doing, with his 14 less possessions in 4 games, that keeps him in the team when others in the vfl are consistently playing well?

I’m not criticising these 2 players, they could both be superstars, but it is hard to see some comments as balanced.

[comrade]

Smith’s 10 possessions are better than 15 and a goal? What else did he do? I was there and I didn’t see it.

what on earth is Richards doing, with his 14 less possessions in 4 games, that keeps him in the team when others in the vfl are consistently playing well?

I’m not criticising these 2 players, they could both be superstars, but it is hard to see some comments as balanced.

Hayes' goal was completely nullified by the one he gave back through a fumble and errant handball (and that was just one instance amongst numerous fumbles/dropped marks/ineffective disposal on the weekend). And 15 touches is nothing to crow about. Who's to say Bailey Williams wouldn't have gotten 20+...and if you're really arguing that Hayes is showing more than Smith, well I'm not sure what to say.

Richards has battled this year, no doubt but getting games into him is good for his long term development and will benefit us for years to come. Pumping games into a mature age recruit who's ceiling is fairly capped, when we've got younger players with more AFL level talents rotting in the VFL makes little sense.

[bulldogtragic]

Smith’s 10 possessions are better than 15 and a goal? What else did he do? I was there and I didn’t see it.

what on earth is Richards doing, with his 14 less possessions in 4 games, that keeps him in the team when others in the vfl are consistently playing well?

I’m not criticising these 2 players, they could both be superstars, but it is hard to see some comments as balanced.

Smith had a career high 9 tackles is the cold hard slog of senior footy at Ballarat. Hayes had a career best 4. In the type of game it was, I'd say that's something else he did.

[Danjul]

Smith had a career high 9 tackles is the cold hard slog of senior footy at Ballarat. Hayes had a career best 4. In the type of game it was, I'd say that's something else he did.

which of those extra 5 tackles was worth as much as Hayes 6 extra kicks and goal? In the type of game it was when the Lions looked like they were getting ready to pull away Hayes goal was extremely valuable, just like Naughton after the half time siren.

[bulldogtragic]

which of those extra 5 tackles was worth as much as Hayes 6 extra kicks and goal? In the type of game it was when the Lions looked like they were getting ready to pull away Hayes goal was extremely valuable, just like Naughton after the half time siren.

You just asked if he did something else on the weekend, because you didn't see it. So I mentioned this considerable difference to point it out.

If we are weighing up his goal, but coughing up a goal, I count that as a nil all draw. So 6 extra kicks at 60% accuracy on the day, is 3.8 effective kicks. 3.8 effective kicks, or 5 tackles? I prioritise the tackles.

Moot point considering Hayes will play another AFEL game, and Williams, Lippa etc will play some more VFL footy.

[MrMahatma]

which of those extra 5 tackles was worth as much as Hayes 6 extra kicks and goal? In the type of game it was when the Lions looked like they were getting ready to pull away Hayes goal was extremely valuable, just like Naughton after the half time siren.

Do you think Hayes has more hurt factor than Smith? More upside?

[bornadog]

Smith’s 10 possessions are better than 15 and a goal? What else did he do? I was there and I didn’t see it.

what on earth is Richards doing, with his 14 less possessions in 4 games, that keeps him in the team when others in the vfl are consistently playing well?

I’m not criticising these 2 players, they could both be superstars, but it is hard to see some comments as balanced.

Smith played a different role last week, he and Libba played a defensive role and were tasked with stopping Lache Neale from being effective for them. In the end Neale was not very influential.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Hayes' goal was completely nullified by the one he gave back through a fumble and errant handball (and that was just one instance amongst numerous fumbles/dropped marks/ineffective disposal on the weekend). And 15 touches is nothing to crow about. Who's to say Bailey Williams wouldn't have gotten 20+...and if you're really arguing that Hayes is showing more than Smith, well I'm not sure what to say.

Richards has battled this year, no doubt but getting games into him is good for his long term development and will benefit us for years to come. Pumping games into a mature age recruit who's ceiling is fairly capped, when we've got younger players with more AFL level talents rotting in the VFL makes little sense.

I think an area that some might be overlooking is Hayes' running numbers and work rate. He certainly looks like he is doing some heavy lifting.

Last weekend he ran:

-14.4km in total (second for the Dogs behind Macrae).

-3.3km at high speed (#1 on the ground in front of Cutler 3km, Liberatore 2.6km, Richards 2.4km, McCluggage 2.4km).
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 3.6km.

-Equal third fastest moving speed with Liberatore (9.3km/h), behind Zac Bailey (9.8km/h) and Bailey Smith (9.4km/h).
#1 on the ground v Richmond @ 10.1km/h

-The most sprint efforts on the ground with 26. Next best was JJ with 20, Cameron with 19, Cutler with 19, and Sam Lloyd with 18.
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 31.

-The most repeat sprint efforts on the ground with 5. Next best was JJ with 4 and followed by Lester, Hipwood and Hodege with 2.
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 8.

-Our fastest mover in defence at 8.5km/h

[comrade]

I think an area that some might be overlooking is Hayes' running numbers and work rate. He certainly looks like he is doing some heavy lifting.

Last weekend he ran:

-14.4km in total (second for the Dogs behind Macrae).

-3.3km at high speed (#1 on the ground in front of Cutler 3km, Liberatore 2.6km, Richards 2.4km, McCluggage 2.4km).
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 3.6km.

-Equal third fastest moving speed with Liberatore (9.3km/h), behind Zac Bailey (9.8km/h) and Bailey Smith (9.4km/h).
#1 on the ground v Richmond @ 10.1km/h

-The most sprint efforts on the ground with 26. Next best was JJ with 20, Cameron with 19, Cutler with 19, and Sam Lloyd with 18.
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 31.

-The most repeat sprint efforts on the ground with 5. Next best was JJ with 4 and followed by Lester, Hipwood and Hodege with 2.
#1 on the ground v Richmond with 8.

-Our fastest mover in defence at 8.5km/h

Good post and nice digging into the numbers. It does paint a positive picture of what Hayes does without the ball and away from the contest, which no doubt Bevo rates highly and why we've given him a chance on the list.

But even after all that running, he still only managed 15 touches at around 60% efficiency and coughed up a goal. And again, who's to say Lipinski or Williams (less likely) wouldn't be putting up similar numbers but also using the ball better and being cleaner under pressure.

[Bullies]

We will lose a player like Williams/Dale to another club yet we continue to play Gowers. I must be missing something as I have no idea what he offers.

[Bulldog4life]

Smith played a different role last week, he and Libba played a defensive role and were tasked with stopping Lache Neale from being effective for them. In the end Neale was not very influential.

Quite often we have no idea what roles the players have. We only go on stats and clangers whether we want to drop a player.

[Axe Man]

We will lose a player like Williams/Dale to another club yet we continue to play Gowers. I must be missing something as I have no idea what he offers.

Considering Gowers plays a completely different role to those 2 players I don't see how there is any correlation. Gowers frustrates us all but he is a unique player on our list.

[Happy Days]

This feels like a very facetious debate. Smith clearly should be getting games ahead of Hayes and raw stats really don't demonstrate a counterpoint.

[Bulldog4life]

Considering Gowers plays a completely different role to those 2 players I don't see how there is any correlation. Gowers frustrates us all but he is a unique player on our list.

Agree. He is playing a role that Bevo wants him to do. I have heard Bevo say in his pressers that certain players are sacrificing their own natural games for the good of team. If Bevo is happy that is good enough for me.

[Mantis]

Agree. He is playing a role that Bevo wants him to do. I have heard Bevo say in his pressers that certain players are sacrificing their own natural games for the good of team. If Bevo is happy that is good enough for me.

So this week Gowers needs to sacrifice his own game to ensure Stewart isn't influential.. Let's see how he goes.

[Bulldog4life]

So this week Gowers needs to sacrifice his own game to ensure Stewart isn't influential.. Let's see how he goes.

I am not sure. Will that be his role? I've got no idea.

[Bulldog4life]

Bevo said in his presser about the journalist with the black soul when discussing Tom. He said that journalist will never be forgiven. We all know who he meant.

[Bullies]

Considering Gowers plays a completely different role to those 2 players I don't see how there is any correlation. Gowers frustrates us all but he is a unique player on our list. Unique is right. Dale could easily play Gowers role whatever it is.

[Axe Man]

Unique is right. Dale could easily play Gowers role whatever it is.

Completely disagree, they share little in common. Dale doesn't have the strength, size or aerial presence Gowers does. You can argue we would be better off with Dale over Gowers but the role would not be the same.

[Axe Man]

Atkins out, Constable back in for the Cats.

[mjp]

Hayes is great. Smith is great. Richards is great. We have won 2 in a row in pretty good style...

I am all for going in unchanged - I LIKE it. I think it is amazing that Williams is banging down the door - let him bang a little louder. He has been given a couple of chances this year when he wasn't 'ready' and that was a mistake...the next time he comes in, he is going to be cherry ripe to impact.

If the team is winning and players competing hard/contributing, well, stick with the same 22 and see what they can do. We all know there are going to be injuries and opportunities will come for Lipinski, Williams, Dale et al. Maybe in 8 weeks time it will be Hayes banging down the door coming off 2x BOG's in the VFL on his return from a corky?

As for Smith - there is nothing wrong with him spending some time in the VFL but he was just fine last week...not every player in the midfield needs to have 30 touches for the team to be successful...they just have to compete and contribute. He had his head in the hole last week - especially in the 2nd q when we were under siege - and whilst that wasn't reflected in numbers it was ultimately reflected in the score-board.