Were we really that bad?

[mjp]

So - we lost by a goal. And we all expected to win. But was it really that bad?

We won the Tackle count AND the possession count. Effort was OK.
We dominated the game from q-time onwards - won the stoppages despite being absolutely murdered in the hitouts and dominated the i50 count.

What we didn't do well was hold a strong defensive structure when the Suns countered after the ball had been bouncing around between the mid-field and our forward half...again, our defenders are (mostly) young and inexperienced and are 100% inexperienced at playing together.

There is a lot of talk about bad use inside 50m etc - and our determination to kick the ball to the GC spare 40m out from goal was frustrating...but that so often happens to teams when they are dominating in the midfield - the corridor is getting clogged, the forwards lead wide, the mids have been told not to go wide...it is a bit of a perfect storm.

Were we dumb with the footy? Yep. Were we a bit disorganised and prone to allowing sling-shot goals? Yep. Was there really a lack of effort? I honestly don't think so. You can point to the first 10-minutes and say there was no effort then, but in all seriousness we simply could not get the ball! So it is a bit hard to assess what we were doing 'cos we simply couldn't get the footy...that happens at times in a game and it just happened to us early...I would submit that we went in thinking we would get a LOT better contest vs Witts than we actually did and set up too aggressively at the clearances, but...

Still a good chance this Friday.

[MrMahatma]

So - we lost by a goal. And we all expected to win. But was it really that bad?

We won the Tackle count AND the possession count. Effort was OK.
We dominated the game from q-time onwards - won the stoppages despite being absolutely murdered in the hitouts and dominated the i50 count.

What we didn't do well was hold a strong defensive structure when the Suns countered after the ball had been bouncing around between the mid-field and our forward half...again, our defenders are (mostly) young and inexperienced and are 100% inexperienced at playing together.

There is a lot of talk about bad use inside 50m etc - and our determination to kick the ball to the GC spare 40m out from goal was frustrating...but that so often happens to teams when they are dominating in the midfield - the corridor is getting clogged, the forwards lead wide, the mids have been told not to go wide...it is a bit of a perfect storm.

Were we dumb with the footy? Yep. Were we a bit disorganised and prone to allowing sling-shot goals? Yep. Was there really a lack of effort? I honestly don't think so. You can point to the first 10-minutes and say there was no effort then, but in all seriousness we simply could not get the ball! So it is a bit hard to assess what we were doing 'cos we simply couldn't get the footy...that happens at times in a game and it just happened to us early...I would submit that we went in thinking we would get a LOT better contest vs Witts than we actually did and set up too aggressively at the clearances, but...

Still a good chance this Friday.

Agree this Friday is going to be on!

I’m most frustrated with the missed goals or butchered chances (EG: Dickson playing on, Dunkley first quarter...). We did a lot right but stuffed up when it counted.

[GVGjr]

We weren't bad at all and I'm far from devastated but whenever you drop a game like that and fail to fire I get why we are disappointed.
I stuck around after the game and talked to a number of Player Sponsors and the general consensus was we just made a few too many errors at critical times. A dropped marked here, a turnover there and of course missing very gettable goals were the area's that most felt had us not playing close to the best of our ability.
The mood of the room however, was still quite bullish for the season ahead

As you pointed out, the major frustration for me was decision making errors made but I know that we have to ride them out given the team is still adjusting. There were a heap of positives for me, Smith had his first of many good games for us, Bontempelli was awesome aside from his goal kicking and Macrae performed strongly in the 2nd half and Liberatore was great all game

Heaps of other positives and I'm still bullish for the season

[Mofra]

I think we played really really dumb football and our forward pressure was not quite up to the benchmark (Dickson and Naughton were very good in this area) but despite this we found ourselves kicking for a draw in the last minute.

We had a totally raw spine and a third gamer was one of our ball winners after barely getting near it in his first game and a half.

It was a very disappointing result but there were certainly positives there.

[bornadog]

As mentioned by MJP, in the first quarter we couldn't get our hands on the ball. eg: Macrae only had 4 touches which is unusual for him, and most of the mids were in a similar position and we were beaten in all the stats. The Bont was the only winner, but couldn't do it all himself and missed a couple of gettable goals. A few missed goals didn't give us any momentum, and I think we were a little stunned with the pace and movement from GC.

We regrouped and got on top all over the ground, but just couldn't hit the scoreboard. The movement from the backline to the forward line was slow which allowed GC to flood our fwd50 and give us no room.

Friday will be interesting.

[Topdog]

For the 1st quarter we absolutely were that bad. We need to stop 2 things.

1. Losing quarters by 4+ goals.
2. Capitalise when we dominate a quarter. e.g. Q2 vs Hawthorn and GC.

[Rocket Science]

We were crap in enough key areas that we lost the game. To a likely bottom four side in the nadir of a rebuild. Who are notoriously poor travellers. So yep, we were that bad.

While we're a work in progress ourselves, I think the most frustrating thing is we seem to fall victim to the same flaws and unmastered fundamentals that have plagued us for bloody ages now.

Good thing we've got 19 more rounds to work on them.

I'm worried about getting split wide open by a quality side on national TV this Friday.

[Mantis]

Lots of good points in the OP, but the concerns I have:

1/ No ability to change our structure at the clearances. It was clear that the player on the defensive side was getting sucked into the contest, but no adjustment was made.

2/ No ability to change the structure in defence. Young group sure, but we have our captain in that group as well as 3 of our more senior players (Crozier, Suckling & Duryea), but they continued to play too high.. no adjustment was made from the box in real time either.

3/ Our ball use into F50 has been an issue for 4 years, it is what it is with this group playing. Overnight we aren't seeing the likes of Hunter, Macrae, Wallis, Dunkley, etc.. becoming amazing kicks who make sound decisions. The ability to convert when we do get opportunities isn't great either and doesn't seem to be a focus area or a concern.

4/ Effort is always good, that's not a criticism, we have a hardworking and determined midfield group who are always up for the fight, but we rarely get reward on effort.

5/ We've played 3 sides who most will think will finish outside the 8 on familiar territory (includes 2 interstate teams on our turf)... A little concerned of what happens agaisnt the good teams, but I guess more will be revealed on Friday night.

Given how young we are in the KPP stocks it was always going to be a challenging year, and whilst there will be gains made there is also going to be some hardship/ frustrating times... Interested to see how the season unfolds.

[Eastdog]

We just weren’t on from that start on Sunday. Credit that we fought back but it wasn’t enough in the end. Turnovers and missing easy goals does that to you and we can’t get away with it against the top sides (even the average sides and GC seem to have improved a bit). In saying that I’m looking forward to the Friday night match at the G. Will be a challenge but I give us a chance again.

[jeemak]

I thought we were really poor around stoppages in the first quarter and were far to slow to respond. The fact our captain would have been viewing this from behind the ball and we didn't immediately stop it suggested we're not being lead on field well enough from a tactical point of view. Perhaps a few of our leaders are worrying a bit too much about their own games at the minute, or need to develop quickly so they can concentrate on in-game team leadership and playing.

For the remainder of the game we were actually OK, and fluffed our lines too many times. It should have been a Bulldogs win by a couple of goals, some better finishing and some better team defending on occasion throughout the last three quarters would have seen to that.

[bornadog]

Maybe watching this we weren't as bad as we thought we were.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rZCzidxD3U

[mjp]

3/ Our ball use into F50 has been an issue for 4 years, it is what it is with this group playing. Overnight we aren't seeing the likes of Hunter, Macrae, Wallis, Dunkley, etc.. becoming amazing kicks who make sound decisions. The ability to convert when we do get opportunities isn't great either and doesn't seem to be a focus area or a concern.



Our ball use would be better if we just kicked it to Naughton.

[AshMac]

Skill errors I can handle, but I’m tired of seeing games where we dominate play for 15 minutes with the ball in our forward half but can’t seem to score.

I thought we looked better than GC over the day, they were just so much more efficient inside 50.

[Go_Dogs]

I wasn't sure where to post this but here's as good as anywhere

Our defensive transition. Probably not something you can see on TV. Matt Suckling - our smartest, best, transition defence runner. He reads the next three kicks and sprints in transition to get there and impact a kick. I can see why he's been in coaches votes.

It sucked we lost. We should've won. But it's not time to throw the baby out...we are a solid, competitive team. It's still a development year, but we've made progress already. Enjoy the ride WOOOFERS.

[Ghost Dog]

We weren't bad at all and I'm far from devastated but whenever you drop a game like that and fail to fire I get why we are disappointed.
I stuck around after the game and talked to a number of Player Sponsors and the general consensus was we just made a few too many errors at critical times. A dropped marked here, a turnover there and of course missing very gettable goals were the area's that most felt had us not playing close to the best of our ability.
The mood of the room however, was still quite bullish for the season ahead

As you pointed out, the major frustration for me was decision making errors made but I know that we have to ride them out given the team is still adjusting. There were a heap of positives for me, Smith had his first of many good games for us, Bontempelli was awesome aside from his goal kicking and Macrae performed strongly in the 2nd half and Liberatore was great all game

Heaps of other positives and I'm still bullish for the season

Good posts and thanks for the insights MJP and GVGjr. I doubt any teams will be taking us lightly this season. GC are a good team, much improved and we can chew up a lead pretty fast.

[jeemak]

I wasn't sure where to post this but here's as good as anywhere

Our defensive transition. Probably not something you can see on TV. Matt Suckling - our smartest, best, transition defence runner. He reads the next three kicks and sprints in transition to get there and impact a kick. I can see why he's been in coaches votes.

It sucked we lost. We should've won. But it's not time to throw the baby out...we are a solid, competitive team. It's still a development year, but we've made progress already. Enjoy the ride WOOOFERS.

I agree with you on Suckling, his pace and work rate is underrated.

We should have won, what really disappoints me is that sitting in pretty in third position would have been a really great confidence boost for a developing team. On the flipside seeing how the team regroups after a short break and disappointing effort will be really interesting.

[Twodogs]

I wasn't sure where to post this but here's as good as anywhere

Our defensive transition. Probably not something you can see on TV. Matt Suckling - our smartest, best, transition defence runner. He reads the next three kicks and sprints in transition to get there and impact a kick. I can see why he's been in coaches votes.

It sucked we lost. We should've won. But it's not time to throw the baby out...we are a solid, competitive team. It's still a development year, but we've made progress already. Enjoy the ride WOOOFERS.

Not last year but the year before (against Collingwood I think) the game is winding down toward the final siren, about the 29/30 minute mark) and we were hanging onto a lead of less then a goal. My son nudges me in the ribs and says ''check Suckling'' I look over and he is standing 30 metres away from the pack on the defensive side about 50-60 metres away from the goal square (ie the pack is between him and the goal) when the ball gets squirted out by a Collingwood kicking it off the ground. The ball rolls to Suckling's feet (he didn't have to move) and he picks it up and kicks a goal. He's a very clever player. I'm going to go as far as to say that he reads the game almost as well as Doug Hawkins did. (Doug had a few other attributes that made him stand out from Suckers though)

[ledge]

I’m still trying to figure out if it’s our mids coach and forwards coach having two different running patterns , are they not communicating ?
It seems our mids are told kick long into the forward line but the forwards are told to lead, thus the defenders just sit back and take the Mark.
It’s been happening for a few years now.

[Bulldog Revolution]

Good thread - we werent that bad, we just lost when we had lots of chances to win

GC were better organised and more vocal on the ground - they used it better and got easier goals

Still lots to like about the way we have started the season and things look to be heading in the right direction - next exam is Friday night

[bornadog]

Good thread - we werent that bad, we just lost when we had lots of chances to win

GC were better organised and more vocal on the ground - they used it better and got easier goals

Still lots to like about the way we have started the season and things look to be heading in the right direction - next exam is Friday night

I agree, we are getting lots of the ball and the stats are showing we are getting similar numbers as 2016. We are way ahead of any team with inside 50, marks inside 50, and good numbers with clearances, stoppages and centre clearances. We just need to kick those goals.

Compared to Collingwood we are way ahead in all those stats including contested poss. and we have kicked 37 goals to date compared to 36. I think Friday is going to be a close game.

[1eyedog]

So - we lost by a goal. And we all expected to win. But was it really that bad?

We won the Tackle count AND the possession count. Effort was OK.
We dominated the game from q-time onwards - won the stoppages despite being absolutely murdered in the hitouts and dominated the i50 count.

What we didn't do well was hold a strong defensive structure when the Suns countered after the ball had been bouncing around between the mid-field and our forward half...again, our defenders are (mostly) young and inexperienced and are 100% inexperienced at playing together.

There is a lot of talk about bad use inside 50m etc - and our determination to kick the ball to the GC spare 40m out from goal was frustrating...but that so often happens to teams when they are dominating in the midfield - the corridor is getting clogged, the forwards lead wide, the mids have been told not to go wide...it is a bit of a perfect storm.

Were we dumb with the footy? Yep. Were we a bit disorganised and prone to allowing sling-shot goals? Yep. Was there really a lack of effort? I honestly don't think so. You can point to the first 10-minutes and say there was no effort then, but in all seriousness we simply could not get the ball! So it is a bit hard to assess what we were doing 'cos we simply couldn't get the footy...that happens at times in a game and it just happened to us early...I would submit that we went in thinking we would get a LOT better contest vs Witts than we actually did and set up too aggressively at the clearances, but...

Still a good chance this Friday.

It depends on your expectations. If you had us finishing outside the 8 on the recent where will we finish poll then no, we weren't that bad, or at least the result was disappointing but not overly unexpected. If you had us having a red hot go at finals this year because you scanned our list and saw over a dozen Premiership players still playing and a wealth of new, young talent then yes, it probably was pretty bad.

The stats are one thing but the overall impression is another. When you win well against two supposed top 8 sides in the first two rounds and you just start to believe that your prediction in that poll may be accurate and then you lose to the Suns at home who are basically fielding a VFL level side with 5 pretty good players it feels really, really bad.

Hoping we bounce back.

[Rocket Science]

I agree, we are getting lots of the ball and the stats are showing we are getting similar numbers as 2016. We are way ahead of any team with inside 50, marks inside 50, and good numbers with clearances, stoppages and centre clearances. We just need to kick those goals.

Compared to Collingwood we are way ahead in all those stats including contested poss. and we have kicked 37 goals to date compared to 36. I think Friday is going to be a close game.

That may be, but they've faced significantly better opponents in Geelong, Richmond and the premiers.

This is comfortably our toughest test to date, and their easiest ... potentially.

I hope we're 'on' and our systems hold up.

[mjp]

That may be, but they've faced significantly better opponents in Geelong, Richmond and the premiers.

This is comfortably our toughest test to date, and their easiest ... potentially.

I hope we're 'on' and our systems hold up.

Well, if Richmond lose this week, they are going to be 1-3...so maybe beating them wasn’t such a great effort? Things change from year to year...

[Mofra]

Well, if Richmond lose this week, they are going to be 1-3...so maybe beating them wasn’t such a great effort? Things change from year to year...
In a few weeks GCS may well be seen as a difficult assignment. They are playing good football right now.

[EasternWest]

I think the issue isn't were we bad, because for a lot of it we weren't.

The problem is we continue to be bad in the same areas and they really hurt us.

[Rocket Science]

Well, if Richmond lose this week, they are going to be 1-3...so maybe beating them wasn’t such a great effort? Things change from year to year...

Sure they do. But put another way only one of our opponents thus far might play finals in 2019; the Hawks, maybe.

Richmond have some challenges at the moment, finally, but you'd safely suggest the Pies' three opponents to date will all be there at the pointy end.

Anyway, popping away the crystal ball tonight's a pretty timely test for us. We'll learn a bit.

[mjp]

Sure they do. But put another way only one of our opponents thus far might play finals in 2019; the Hawks, maybe.

Richmond have some challenges at the moment, finally, but you'd safely suggest the Pies' three opponents to date will all be there at the pointy end.


Agree - but at some point in the season you simply ARE what your record says you are. For example, for all the good stuff being written and said about West Coast:

1/. They lost to Brisbane after leading by 30 points.
2/. They beat an undermanned GWS team in Perth after conceding 20x inside 50's in the first quarter...the Giants dominated but couldn't take advantage and it would have been game over if they had.
3/. They beat Collingwood at the MCG. Collingwood have only won one game - and that was against Richmond who have also only won one game...and that was against Carlton who haven't won a game.

A month ago I thought Richmond, West Coast, Adelaide and Collingwood would be top 4. Right now I am not convinced about any of them though West Coast's home ground advantage sure gives them a leg up. I thought GC would be hopeless and they clearly aren't...they will be 3-1 if they beat the winless Blues this week...

Projecting records and records based on opponents and all of that stuff is great - but as I said, ultimately you are what your record says. Lose tonight (which they will) and the 'Pies are 1-3 and in a LOT of trouble. And how many finals teams would they have played? Based on pre-season projections, the thought was Geelong would fall back...they seem pretty good. Richmond are in dead set trouble. West Coast are 'just going'. Pre-season, you wouldn't have thought that a lot of teams in the current top 8 would be playing finals footy...generally the ladder doesn't change much after 8 games...Melbourne are already half-way to that point and have just one win...against the equally hapless Swans...

Wins are wins and losses are losses and ultimately trying to assess form based on 'strength of schedule' this early in the year - when we have no idea who is actually 'STRONG', is futile.