3 or more things we already know, but no one will do anything about.

[bulldogtragic]

1. We won't play a seasoned ruck
2. We won't play more than one key defender
3. We think one key forward with 6 games experience as a key forward is a good idea
4. We can't fix our goal kicking
5. Our MC smoke something bad before the selection meeting

[bulldogtragic]

6. Sorry to steal more, but we won't use a stopper or tagger in real time to stop players dominating the centre and clearances.

[AndrewP6]

1.2016 was a fluke. A glorious, beautiful fluke, but a fluke nonetheless.
2. We are unable or unwilling to fix our VFL 2s level kicking.
3. Our so-called leadership group should surrender half their pay for the season. We don't have anyone that says "Nah, stuff this, I'm not putting up with this shit". Not one. We have triers, sure, but leaders? I'd have to look up who they are.
4. I thought losing to GC was the worst. I was wrong.
5. I can't count.

[Bulldog4life]

1.2016 was a fluke. A glorious, beautiful fluke, but a fluke nonetheless.
2. We are unable or unwilling to fix our VFL 2s level kicking.
3. Our so-called leadership group should surrender half their pay for the season. We don't have anyone that says "Nah, stuff this, I'm not putting up with this shit". Not one. We have triers, sure, but leaders? I'd have to look up who they are.
4. I thought losing to GC was the worst. I was wrong.
5. I can't count.

Where is the unlike button when you want it.

[AndrewP6]

Where is the unlike button when you want it.

Based on evidence of the 3 years since, it's the only conclusion I can reach.

[Bulldog4life]

Based on evidence of the 3 years since, it's the only conclusion I can reach.

Well it is a ridiculous conclusion. Which game was a fluke. 1,2,3 or 4. Or were they all flukes. We are all hurting after today but that is crazy talk.

[AndrewP6]

Well it is a ridiculous conclusion. Which game was a fluke. 1,2,3 or 4. Or were they all flukes. We are all hurting after today but that is crazy talk.

To each his/her own. If it was just today, I wouldn't have said it.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

To each his/her own. If it was just today, I wouldn't have said it.

But today has absolutely no relevance in stating a case as to whether or not 2016 was a fluke.
As Bulldog for life said, which finals game was a fluke? We won 4 in a row... and I don't think anyone can mount even a semblance of a defense that any single one of those 4 games was a fluke, that we didn't deserve to win.
Our performances since, don't diminish what was achieved in 2016. I have to listen to this dross from friends, and the general public, never expected to hear it from Bulldogs people.

[AndrewP6]

But today has absolutely no relevance in stating a case as to whether or not 2016 was a fluke.
As Bulldog for life said, which finals game was a fluke? We won 4 in a row... and I don't think anyone can mount even a semblance of a defense that any single one of those 4 games was a fluke, that we didn't deserve to win.
Our performances since, don't diminish what was achieved in 2016. I have to listen to this dross from friends, and the general public, never expected to hear it from Bulldogs people.

I'm not in the mood to debate. Agree to disagree.

[chef]

Dont think it was a fluke, but i think we've really overated the team.

Yeah we were an average team that just had a great month of football.

[Flamethrower]

1. There is a real disconnect between the senior MC and the VFL - eg: what more does Lipinski need to do to get a game ahead of some of the pretenders in the 1sts.

2. There is also a disconnect between the senior MC and the structures required to compete consistently in the current AFL environment.

3. Luke Beveridge has the media bluffed. He may be a good motivator (see 2016), but he is tactically inept, way too reactive, and lets emotion and stubbornness control too many of his decisions (eg sacking Stringer, playing Hunter & Wood in the 1sts, playing too many players out of position).

[DOG GOD]

1. I’m really starting to believe that since the start of the 2018 season, that the players aren’t willing to play under Bevo.
2. The media really need to apply the blowtorch
3. Was the appt of Lloyd based on the fact he could kick straight at Richmond ?

[Bulldog4life]

Dont think it was a fluke, but i think we've really overated the team.

Yeah we were an average team that just had a great month of football.

Better than average Chef. At the end of the season we finished with 15 wins and 7 losses and 2 games off top position. If that is average give me more please.

[angelopetraglia]

Better than average Chef. At the end of the season we finished with 15 wins and 7 losses and 2 games off top position. If that is average give me more please.

So including finals we won 19 games for the season and had a horror run with injuries. Fluke? That’s crazy talk.

[chef]

Better than average Chef. At the end of the season we finished with 15 wins and 7 losses and 2 games off top position. If that is average give me more please.

No doubt we had a great season, but it wasnt a great team as shown by the bigger sample size.

[Remi Moses]

Based on evidence of the 3 years since, it's the only conclusion I can reach.

Talk about knee jerk nonsense
You don’t fluke a win in Perth , Sydney and the three peat powerhouse

[The Pie Man]

I’m not in the fluke camp - but you can mount a case.

You don’t fluke 4 finals?

Well, West Coast underestimated us and were ripe for the upsetting
The 2016 Hawthorn was finished, had dipped significantly from the three peat
GWS were playing in their first prelim and were playing their 2nd game in 4 weeks due to the bye
The umps handed us the GF

This is all devils advocate, I believe about 40% of it. On reflection, I’m staggered we got it done.

So happy we did of course...makes today a bit easier to swallow. I’d be livid if we hadn’t nicked that flag and were turning this in, and I reckon today would’ve been a coach killer if that were the case

[AndrewP6]

Talk about knee jerk nonsense
You don’t fluke a win in Perth , Sydney and the three peat powerhouse

Again, not in the mood. It, like everything on this forum, is an opinion.

[Grantysghost]

So including finals we won 19 games for the season and had a horror run with injuries. Fluke? That’s crazy talk.
Swans and us finished season 19-7 it's a fair case the best two sides of the year played off .

[soupman]

Im not in the fluke camp, but I think we got lucky with a few things.

Beveridge as a coach is a gambler. His whole coaching career he has backed in the unconventional, and for 2015 and 2016 it worked. We were a talented squad that was for the first time unleashed as an attacking force, and every play he made came off (unconventional selection, picking 1st year players for key roles, relying on players coming straight back in from long term injuries, playing 1 key defender, 1 ruck, midfielders as forwards etc.). He bottled lightning with the team spirit and will to win that season, and that combined with high risk tactics that always came off won us the premiership.

It wasn't a fluke, we were genuinely a very good side that year and deserved the premiership, but since then all the gambles he has made, which all came off in 2016, have failed to come off. And really lets face it none of them should work.

Playing a completely undersized defence throughout the season, shouldn't work, did in 2016.
Playing a forwardline relying on an outrageous amount of inside 50s to produce a score from woeful conversion, shouldn't work, did in 2016.
Bringing players straight back from injury after log lay offs or playing with niggles, shouldn't work, did in 2016.
Almost always allow the opposition to get within a kick of the lead in the last quarter, shouldn't work, did in 2016.

These are the most obvious to me, and they are all things you shouldn't be able to point at and be confident will work. Yet in 2016 they did, almost every week. Fluke or not that was certainly Beveridges best gambling return.

[Grantysghost]

Again, not in the mood. It, like everything on this forum, is an opinion.

Maybe I'm having an issue with the word fluke. It means it was luck rather than skill. You can't get that much luck...

[comrade]

Who cares?

[bulldogtragic]

Who cares?

Exactly. We won it.

The thread was about things not learned and things we don't or can't address.

[Eastdog]

Where is the unlike button when you want it.

I don’t agree that it was a fluke. You play against great sides in the finals and we took up the challenge in 2016 and succeeded.

[GVGjr]

We did not fluke the GF and we were an awesome team in 2015 and 2016. What has happened since though is worth taking the coaching team to task over.
Momentum is a bitch of a thing to regain when you take your eyes off the ball and despite assurances to the contrary I think most would now agree we were asleep at the wheel in 2017 and have paid a high price for it since.

We are almost a quarter of the way into the season and the signs aren't great. How we go about the next 3 weeks will tell us where we are really at.

2016 was no fluke though

[The Pie Man]

I’m finding some relevance in discussing past achievements, as it may buy a senior coach more time than perhaps is warranted

[I'm Not Bitter Anymore!]

What happened to the Positive Thread?

[Doc26]

We’re also now talking apples with oranges compared to our current list.

We had some experienced, hard it at types in MBoyd, Picko, Moz, Dahlhaus and a desperate Clay Smith. Biggs was also experienced and a different player than his 2017 version, and Stringer would command a very good defender each week.

A better performing ruck setup in TBoyd and Roughy and a better balance of tall KPDs with Hamling, and Roberts (w/ Wood & Moz).

That’s half our team not there today, and very key contributors, and when coupled with the 3rd man up rule and catching many by surprise with the manic intensity at the stoppages that is now the minimum standard today, set us up very well when the finals came.

I don’t believe for one moment that 2016 was a fluke but I can see how this could be interpreted when you compare today with circa 2016. To the contrary, we were quite outstanding in 2016 given the extent of injuries suffered and up against the might of the hugely resourced interstate teams with their incredible home ground advantages.

[hujsh]

What happened to the Positive Thread?

Burned down. Covered in gasoline and thrown into an dry well.

[DOG GOD]

The worst thing that could’ve happened after round 2, happened.

The media broadcasted we were back to our 2016 hunger and desperation.

Bevo and the club believed it, and have been playing arrogant since.

I didn’t believe it.

Leading Sydney by 40 points,then almost giving up the lead in the last qtr
Losing to hawks by 30 points at 3 qtr time, only to kick 9 in the last with them 2 players down on the bench (Burgoyne and Shiel I think)

I know it’s hindsight, but we could easily be 0-5

We had the arrogant “just turn up” mannerisms against GC and Carl and we had our pants pulled down by more desperate, hard running, better skilled teams.

I think our coaches, and some of our teams leaders, need to take a good hard look in the mirror, or give 50% of their salary to charity, who deserve the money.

[ratsmac]

1. Wood is playing like an average VFL defender and no one is doing anything about it. I get it he's the captain, you can't drop the captain, but dropping him will make a hell of a statement.

2. Lipinski and Trengove deserve games before Hayes and Young. Wouldn't have made a difference against Carlton because everyone pretty much sucked but I'm sure there would of been quite a few players rolling their eyes when Lippa and Trengove were overlooked again. You can almost bet your balls that Rourke Smith will get a game before Lipinski. Does this sort of thing start to sow seeds of doubt in the minds of the playing group about the coach and MC? Maybe.

3. The Bulldogs forward line is shite. It has been for years and little looks to have been done to address it's problems. No new coaches to replace others that aren't getting results, no specialist coaches, nothing but shuffling a few deck chairs.

4. Making medium sized defenders play tall far too often. I would of liked to see another tall defender against the pies to cover Cox's height advantage last week for one. Also the blatant disrespect of Carlton's tall forwards on the weekend bit us on the arse badly. I felt sorry for Cordy (being our tallest defender at 193cm) at one point trying to defend against McKay (204cm) and Casbolt (201cm). Even Kreuzer was floating around forward at times to make his job even harder. Is Roberts that bad that he can't even get a look in when horses for courses is warranted? It's any wonder why Wood looks all at sea being asked to play on players with a huge height advantage and not allowing him to play on players in his weight division.

5. The game plan/style has been worked out. We need fresh ideas. The same assistant coaches for too many years has run it's course it seems. I really wanted to see a few changes in coaching staff over the pre season.

[Bulldog4life]

We have such a shorter backline that we did in 2016 Granny where we were successful. Then we had 2 key backs, Wood and Morris plus flankers. Now we have Cordy....not a true key back, Wood and a heap of flankers. We do have 2 key backs in the VFL but according to the MC they are not up to it. Hopefully we can fix this problem up in the future.

[Jam Donuts]

1/. Wood must be dropped and the Bont as Captain, he will lift the team and himself.

2/. Are the players now instructed not to run in a line or a wave through the middle or from half back? Have we forgotten how potent this type of football was for us.

3/. The selection process is total garbage, we all know it, but how do you change it.

4/. If this terrible football does not turn around quickly, then I hate to think what will happen to our so called elite players, I cant see them staying with us, and why would they, so instead of the coaching panel just stuffing up our season, they are or maybe stuffing up our future.

5/. Give the players a chance by working out the best positions for them and leave them there for an extended period, my god if you asked most of them where they play, they wouldn't know.

6/. Our players have no confidence, it looks like they are not enjoying their football, is this a tactic?

I could go on and on but I may as well smack my ugly bonce against a brick wall, my sponsorship money is staying in my pocket, the least we could as supporters expect is a red hot go, but that tactic appears to be gone as well. Rant over.

[Twodogs]

Nobody flukes winning a premiership. They are bloody hard to win and if you could fluke them we would have won a lot more.

[The Adelaide Connection]

Nobody flukes winning a premiership. They are bloody hard to win and if you could fluke them we would have won a lot more.

People reference the whole finishing 7th thing as to why we fluked it. Those with good memories will remember how injury ravaged we were and we still managed to chalk up 15 wins.

Question: How many more home and away wins than our 2016 season did the dominant, dream run with injuries, raging favourite Adelaide manage when they finished minor premiers in 2017?

Answer: 0

That’s right, Adelaide managed only 15 wins (plus one draw) and finished first. Would people have called it a fluke if they actually turned up at the GF and taken care of Richmond as they should have?

[Ozza]

2016 being a 'fluke' is ridiculous. We beat every team in the league apart from Geelong that season.