Maybe Bevo doesn’t know it but...

[MrMahatma]

....he doesn’t have the relationship or respect of the players he thinks he does?

I’ve seen it a lot before in business. People miss judge relationships and it destroys their team’s results.

Maybe he’s just a coach to most of the guys. Maybe he’s “almost” a coach to a few? Maybe he has too many favourites that a bunch roll their eyes when certain standards are expected from some and not others.

At this rate, he’s likely to go:

Finals
Flag
Miss
Miss
Miss
Sacked

That’s an all time fall from grace.

We can all cop losses. But constant losses for the same reason? I think we’re all over it.

[AndrewP6]

Maybe we should just let those in positions of power at the Club do their jobs. Predicting the future, based on guesses of things we know nothing about helps nobody.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

....he doesn’t have the relationship or respect of the players he thinks he does?

I’ve seen it a lot before in business. People miss judge relationships and it destroys their team’s results.

Maybe he’s just a coach to most of the guys. Maybe he’s “almost” a coach to a few? Maybe he has too many favourites that a bunch roll their eyes when certain standards are expected from some and not others.

At this rate, he’s likely to go:

Finals
Flag
Miss
Miss
Miss
Sacked

That’s an all time fall from grace.

We can all cop losses. But constant losses for the same reason? I think we’re all over it.

I think you may rethink this tomorow. At least, given your posting history I hope you do.

We all would like to find the one, the ultimate person we can lay blame toward. Man, it would be soothing, were it true.

We've had some great coaches in my lifetime. Nonetheless only one has led us to a flag.
But I guess that was just a fluke?

Wheeler, Wallace, Eade all led us to commanding home and away positions....
How many flags?

Bevo surely does have to own some things; so does the broader club, Gordon, Grant, Bains, assistant coaches................numerous professional football players who keep turning the ball over, miss easy goals.....

We've one, ONE, coach who has brought us a flag in 62 years, and we're gonna burn him at the stake for our collective frailties?
I wonder if Collingwood, might've liked their time again with Leigh Matthews? Maybe they would've evaluated things differently?

We clearly have a skill problem. Surely that rests with recruiting and training?

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Maybe we should just let those in positions of power at the Club do their jobs. Predicting the future, based on guesses of things we know nothing about helps nobody.

Andrew, I wish I could like that post 100 times.

[whythelongface]

Maybe we should just let those in positions of power at the Club do their jobs. Predicting the future, based on guesses of things we know nothing about helps nobody.

Absolutely. We all just second guess anything that goes on.

[The bulldog tragician]

There is a lot of snark towards Bevo lately. References to his surfing, skating, it’s getting tiresome. I don’t always agree with his selections. I believe he definitely needs more support, different voices around him, but how quickly we forget the massive achievement of 2016 and overturning a 60 year culture of failure.

[bulldogtragic]

I think we can only go on facts. That is, Bevo's contract expires next year. The club has two distinct choices:

- afford him more rope to continue what he's doing game plan, selections, philosophy etc.
- clean house of his assistants (like Richmond) and get him a senior assistant. Change things up.

Then the board can weigh things up mid next year based on success on W/L or internal metrics. That's about the most anyone can say.

[GVGjr]

There is a lot of snark towards Bevo lately. References to his surfing, skating, it’s getting tiresome. I don’t always agree with his selections. I believe he definitely needs more support, different voices around him, but how quickly we forget the massive achievement of 2016 and overturning a 60 year culture of failure.

I don't think I could possibly care less about his surfing, skating or even working out in the gym but he does sound a little like a frustrated coach who is searching for answers which isn't a great reflection. I can't live in the past though, 2016 was great but it was a long while ago in my opinion. Bevo's not on his own here, he's part of a bigger picture that need to come up with the answers and that point isn't lost on me.

[SonofScray]

There is a lot of snark towards Bevo lately. References to his surfing, skating, it’s getting tiresome. I don’t always agree with his selections. I believe he definitely needs more support, different voices around him, but how quickly we forget the massive achievement of 2016 and overturning a 60 year culture of failure.

No one is forgetting the flag that wagged. The urgency, snark, frustration is because we do remember it. The club is presenting itself incrediblly differently and the most visible feature is a coach who looks bereft of ideas at times, pig headed most of the time. There is no joy in our footy and it's a reflection of what our leadership are doing.

[Danjul]

The 2016 premiership was great, at the time. It is now simply history.

There’s no denying that the team’s performance since the bye in 2017 has been unbelievably poor. Most of the wins in 2018 were against the bottom four clubs, and two of them have beaten us this year.

The life of the club depends upon the supporters believing that the best possible team is taking the field each week. From the comments in this forum it’s obvious that many don’t. And that’s what I see around me at the game.

Look at selections for the Carlton game. One vfl player had 28 possessions, 2 goals and 25 hitouts. Overlooked for someone with 12 possessions in the same match. Not seen as OK when the result is a 10 goal defeat.

[Scraggers]

I keep drawing back to the Dockers (supporters) and their want to move Lyon on following the illustrious fall from grace after making the 2013 Grand Final. Instead the board stuck fatt and football department got an overhaul. Even though its early days yet in this season, the Dockers sit second on the ladder and are playing an exciting brand of footy. We need to do the same. we move coaches on way too early (Rocket should have got another contract). Our on-field personnel has changed dramatically over the last three years; some by design others through natural selection (retirements etc). We need to give Bevo the same luxury that Lyon got. Give him an extension and the support he deserves plus a footy department shake-up.

We need to stay fatt ... after 2016, god knows Bevo deserves that !!

[EasternWest]

We need to stay fatt

Pfft. You can't even practice what you preach :).

[DOG GOD]

Yes 2016 was great, and he’ll always be the coach that took us to that premiership, but let’s be honest, what we have done since has been diabolical in what has followed.

If I was the board the last thing I would be doing at this point is a contract extension. That shouldn’t even be talked about. A TOTAL review needs to be looked at at the end of the year (coz they won’t do anything now), starting with the asst coaches. ALL need to be replaced and Bevo needs a coaching mentor brought in for support. #1 priority for mine. A kicking coach needs to be given a full time reign at the club for 2020. Don’t care what the cost, just get it done. No more excuses. This needs to be fixed.

Complacency can destroy a club. End of 2016 we were thinking of a golden era for the club. We have fallen so far from that, 2016 seems like a pipe dream right now.

[The bulldog tragician]

I don't think I could possibly care less about his surfing, skating or even working out in the gym but he does sound a little like a frustrated coach who is searching for answers which isn't a great reflection. I can't live in the past though, 2016 was great but it was a long while ago in my opinion. Bevo's not on his own here, he's part of a bigger picture that need to come up with the answers and that point isn't lost on me.
I was referring to people on here sniping about surfing and skating as a basis for making comments about him and his selections. Nobody is above scrutiny, who knows if he can recapture the 2016 magic, I can’t understand his selection logic either, and yep, 2016 is the past, but i just prefer the discussion to be less personal and mocking in tone.

[GVGjr]

I was referring to people on here sniping about surfing and skating as a basis for making comments about him and his selections. Nobody is above scrutiny, who knows if he can recapture the 2016 magic, I can’t understand his selection logic either, and yep, 2016 is the past, but i just prefer the discussion to be less personal and mocking in tone.

Fully agree, I haven't seen anything of note about his surfing or skating here but I'll keep an eye out for it going forward because it's of little relevance to how we are performing.
I think there is a level of frustration after 2 poor seasons and that this one hasn't lived up to what we hoped for so far. We can't live in the sunshine of 2016 for much longer though and we may very need to shake the footy department up sooner or later.

[The bulldog tragician]

Fully agree, I haven't seen anything of note about his surfing or skating here but I'll keep an eye out for it going forward because it's of little relevance to how we are performing.
I think there is a level of frustration after 2 poor seasons and that this one hasn't lived up to what we hoped for so far. We can't live in the sunshine of 2016 for much longer though and we may very need to shake the footy department up sooner or later.

We’re all frustrated that’s for sure, and it’s legitimate to have questions about why solid performers in the VFL don’t get called up, some get dropped more readily than others, some are played in positions that don’t seem right. The match committee undoubtedly have reasons, not necessarily corrrect reasons, But they are operating from knowledge we don’t have (the mysterious “resting” of Bailey Williams for example). On the rare occasions I’ve heard coaches speak in an unguarded way - for example, there used to be coaches breakfasts addressed by Eade and then BMac...I found it fascinating how they viewed performances and the reasons they made various decisions. I don’t think Beveridge is infallible, but I’m sure the selection decisions have their own logic within the group...I’m more concerned there aren’t enough challenging voices for robust discussions to occur. I don’t see anything to suggest Bevo has lost the group...and I’ve been around long enough to know what that looks like...

[Scraggers]

Pfft. You can't even practice what you preach :).

Too funny :p

[bornadog]

There is a lot of snark towards Bevo lately. References to his surfing, skating, it’s getting tiresome. I don’t always agree with his selections. I believe he definitely needs more support, different voices around him, but how quickly we forget the massive achievement of 2016 and overturning a 60 year culture of failure.

Last week I said some of the posts were becoming unreadable and was accused of trolling.

100% agree with you TBT.

[Remi Moses]

It’s all getting pedantic as well .
Yeah critique the coaching and selections and our form , but let’s keep the personal tripe for big footy

[1eyedog]

The wolves aren't out for Bevo yet but if we continue on our current trajectory they soon will be. How long do you suffer the current predicament? Six more game, eight? End of season. If things continue does he coach into next year? Does 2016 give him that right? That's three incredibly disappointing seasons yeah.

[GVGjr]

It’s all getting pedantic as well .
Yeah critique the coaching and selections and our form , but let’s keep the personal tripe for big footy

I've had a bit of a look and I can't find too much that resembles personal attacks on the coaches.

[Scraggers]

The wolves aren't out for Bevo yet but if we continue on our current trajectory they soon will be. How long do you suffer the current predicament? Six more game, eight? End of season. If things continue does he coach into next year? Does 2016 give him that right? That's three incredibly disappointing seasons yeah.

I get what you are saying, but to answer your questions ... Yes, 2016 does give him the right to our backing. He is a proven coach at this level winning the ultimate prize. (We were there :) ). If we do consider moving him on, for who? Who else is banging on the door? I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face, stick with Bevo. Give him our full support and the support of the board. Make him our longest serving coach ... in doing so, more glory will come our way.

[whythelongface]

I get what you are saying, but to answer your questions ... Yes, 2016 does give him the right to our backing. He is a proven coach at this level winning the ultimate prize. (We were there :) ). If we do consider moving him on, for who? Who else is banging on the door? I’ll say it until I’m blue in the face, stick with Bevo. Give him our full support and the support of the board. Make him our longest serving coach ... in doing so, more glory will come our way.

I agree. If Norf can stick with B. Scott; St Kilda with Richo; Carlton with Bolton and Port with Hinkley who, for whatever reason, have underachieved surely we will stick with Bevo and give him a few more years to try and take us back to the top of the tree. As you state Scraggers there isn't a huge talent pool available to take over as coach.Even if there was a change this would cause significant disruption with potential player departures and a new game style. The end result being (potentially) an even longer period of mediocracy. Sure there is the argument that a new coach can bring immediate results eg Bevo in his first two years, however historically this would not be the case. I say stick with Bevo with the hope that the club provides additional resources to assist him over the course of the next few years.

[Ozza]

I don't at all agree with the inferences of Bevo being nearly done. But I am extremely frustrated with how he is coaching at the moment, and what I think is a misuse of the tools at his disposal.

But I do think Chris Grant and others at the club have to challenge the status quo more - particularly with regards to considering whether the assistants in place should remain or whether that group needs to change. The club may need to review whether Chris the best person to be in his role, but its certainly harder to judge his performance from the outside.

But back to Bevo, generally speaking, the best course is to stick with the incumbent and removing a recent premiership coach is more likely to send the club backwards than forwards. Maybe the conversation is around - how committed are you to the long term - if the answer is 'very committed' - then it moves to - well we will give you x number of years but that is based on an agreed way forward on coaching personnel etc.

[AshMac]

I think we can only go on facts. That is, Bevo's contract expires next year. The club has two distinct choices:

- afford him more rope to continue what he's doing game plan, selections, philosophy etc.
- clean house of his assistants (like Richmond) and get him a senior assistant. Change things up.

Then the board can weigh things up mid next year based on success on W/L or internal metrics. That's about the most anyone can say.

You’re onto something with option 2 here. Get the man some proper help. So many other coaches boxes effectively have 2 senior coaches in there. I’d love an ex senior coach to come in and assist

[GVGjr]

You’re onto something with option 2 here. Get the man some proper help. So many other coaches boxes effectively have 2 senior coaches in there. I’d love an ex senior coach to come in and assist

I think that is an excellent option. Provide him with more support

[1eyedog]

Who's available that has prior exposure?

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

I think that is an excellent option. Provide him with more support
Our 2016 Premiership has also been decimated with the loss of on field leaders in Morris Picken and M Boyd significant losses together now with the departures of Roughead and Dahlhaus. Liberatore’s injury woes and the illness of Tom Boyd who were keys in our flag win has had a huge impact. The form of players such as Maclean Dunkley Hunter and Dickson has wavered without the support of the above mentioned players. There is little doubt that our MC needs to be strengthened and changed. We could do a lot worse that to bring back former respected Champions in MBoyd and Cross both highly respected now at other Clubs and Scott West. Strong Clubs make these sort of changes. Time for a refresh.

[josie]

I love Cross and West and Boyd and I know they have all spent time at other clubs. Also think we need some assistants and/or senior advisors from other clubs with no recent WB involvement as well (fresh eyes, no fear of upsetting prior team mates etc). Malthouse? Riewoldt? Bartel? Others? And crucially a goal kicking coach!!

[azabob]

Three options for me to support Bevo are:

Jimmy Bartel would be my pick to tell a few home truths but on the Giants board.

Adam Ramanaskis has a sharp mind but is a player manager. Can’t see him giving that up.

Mick McGuane is the one I’d love to get as 2ic, has a great footy brain and currently is coaching at a local level. Not sure why he currently isn’t in the system.

[bornadog]

I love Cross and West and Boyd and I know they have all spent time at other clubs. Also think we need some assistants and/or senior advisors from other clubs with no recent WB involvement as well (fresh eyes, no fear of upsetting prior team mates etc). Malthouse? Riewoldt? Bartel? Others? And crucially a goal kicking coach!!

I agree, we don't need ex Bulldogs, we need some fresh ideas from different clubs, successful clubs like Hawks, Swans, West Coast, Richmond

[bulldogtragic]

Our team of coaches won an amazing premiership. How many have been poached by other clubs? (Monty left before it)

[jeemak]

I'm concerned with the coaching team and selection and the deterioration in skills and the poor development of some players. But, not as concerned as I am with the people who allowed it to get like this.

How any administration can allow a football department to maintain a position where absolutely no fresh blood is recruited to help address glaring issues leaves me a little flabbergasted. What we have now is a classic echo chamber breeding situation, where ideas aren't challenged sufficiently and new ideas aren't brought forward. And it shows with how are playing.

[LostDoggy]

Luke hasn’t looked like he enjoys his job for a long time. I’m not convinced he would want an extension.
Since 2017 at times I’ve wondered if he isn’t well. He doesn’t appear (from my very limited view) to have as much energy.

[Mofra]

Luke hasn’t looked like he enjoys his job for a long time. I’m not convinced he would want an extension.
Since 2017 at times I’ve wondered if he isn’t well. He doesn’t appear (from my very limited view) to have as much energy.
He once said he'd be a five year coach, not a career coach. Not sure if that's changed.

I absolutely agree with everyone who has suggested we get new assistants in. As far as I can tell Gia is doing well as VFL coach and the boys raved about Corey, but it's hard to judge assistants from the outside.

Leftfield suggestion (because he's a very different thinker to most football types) but Brett Kirk seems the guy who would have a knack of really connecting to some players and getting the best out of them.
Woudl be quite the change to have a Buddhist/meditator in the camp but we need different voices if only for a different perspective.

[Scraggers]

These are the people I would be approaching about a senior assistant coaching position for 2020
(In no particular order)
Justin Leppitsch
Mark Harvey
Brenton Sanderson
Matthew Knights
Brett Ratten

All five have coached at a senior level and are currently in assistant coaching roles at other clubs. They would bring experience and an outside point of view.

[Mofra]

I'd like to see us approach Anthony Rocca as goal kicking coach.
On results so far he's arguably the best in the business. If we can improve our accuracy in front of goal we become a vastly better side.

[Ozza]

I'd like to see us approach Anthony Rocca as goal kicking coach.
On results so far he's arguably the best in the business. If we can improve our accuracy in front of goal we become a vastly better side.

He's currently part time at Collingwood. Ruck coach and game day has a role on the bench.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

Too early to consider getting Matty Boyd back to the club? Not as a kicking coach..obviously, but as a harder edged assistant.
I'd imagine Matty would not be backward in coming forward in delivering a tough message.

[Bulldog Revolution]

I'd like to see us approach Anthony Rocca as goal kicking coach.
On results so far he's arguably the best in the business. If we can improve our accuracy in front of goal we become a vastly better side.

Do you mean Sav?

[Mofra]

Do you mean Sav?
I do, thanks I stand corrected.

[ledge]

Ratten seems to be of high regard , made mistakes in his first tenure but is showing he has what it takes.

[Twodogs]

Ratten seems to be of high regard , made mistakes in his first tenure but is showing he has what it takes.

And has a contract with another club unfortunately. I'd love to get him on board but I think that ship has sailed already.

[FrediKanoute]

These are the people I would be approaching about a senior assistant coaching position for 2020
(In no particular order)
Justin Leppitsch
Mark Harvey
Brenton Sanderson
Matthew Knights
Brett Ratten

All five have coached at a senior level and are currently in assistant coaching roles at other clubs. They would bring experience and an outside point of view.

Leppa - didn't make a pigs ear of a coaching gig a little while back?
Harvey - no thanks. Too long out of the game as a player with very little direct coaching
Sanderson - yeah ok
Knights - are you kidding?
Rattan - as an assistant yes. Not sure about him running the whole shebang

[Ghost Dog]

Young men need change and newness. GWS had or have Sheedy as their 'mentor'.
Why don't we get Barry Hall or Jonno back to the club in a symbolic role as a training mentor for forwards etc? The fans would love it. Time to think outside of the box a bit with how we motivate these players and staff and fans at all level.

It is as though some of these deficiencies ( kicking ) are starting to grow on these young blokes like barnacles and it's annoying to watch.

[Rocket Science]

Leftfield suggestion (because he's a very different thinker to most football types) but Brett Kirk seems the guy who would have a knack of really connecting to some players and getting the best out of them.
Woudl be quite the change to have a Buddhist/meditator in the camp but we need different voices if only for a different perspective.

Hey, in this post-Rocket world maybe this is an approach the likes of Schache and Boyd might respond to.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKlE5ICe5rA

Can you imagine the look on Moz's face though?

[Ghost Dog]

Leppa - didn't make a pigs ear of a coaching gig a little while back?
Harvey - no thanks. Too long out of the game as a player with very little direct coaching
Sanderson - yeah ok
Knights - are you kidding?
Rattan - as an assistant yes. Not sure about him running the whole shebang

It's time for the silver fox. Guido, come on down.

[AndrewP6]

Hey, in this post-Rocket world maybe this is an approach the likes of Schache and Boyd might respond to.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKlE5ICe5rA

Can you imagine the look on Moz's face though?

I reckon Libba would be thinking “And people think I’m weird”!

[hujsh]

Hey, in this post-Rocket world maybe this is an approach the likes of Schache and Boyd might respond to.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKlE5ICe5rA

Can you imagine the look on Moz's face though?

Oh he'd be wrapped.

[Mofra]

I reckon Libba would be thinking “And people think I’m weird”!
Kirky was a tough inside mid and a weird unit. I imagine Libba would produce his best football with Kirk as the official 'Assistant coach for spiritual inspiration'

[Daughter of the West]

Hey, in this post-Rocket world maybe this is an approach the likes of Schache and Boyd might respond to.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKlE5ICe5rA

Can you imagine the look on Moz's face though?

I seriously couldn't watch the last ten seconds.

Pretentious much?

[Rocket Science]

I tried picturing Kirky exchanging energy with Libba but had to stop before my mind melted.

[1eyedog]

Kirky was a tough inside mid and a weird unit. I imagine Libba would produce his best football with Kirk as the official 'Assistant coach for spiritual inspiration'

Nang

[Twodogs]

I seriously couldn't watch the last ten seconds.

Pretentious much?

Pretentious? Moi?


Nang

In the ning nang nong
Where the cows go 'bong'
And the monkeys jiber jabber joo!

[bulldogtragic]

No doubt Bevo has been trying things this year. Some good results, many poor results. He could've been truly pigheaded if he wanted to. But credit where it's due, he made some traditional moves and common sense moves. I'm happy he did, and including:

- Playing a second KPD. Trengove kept Lynch goalless. As I posted when I was following Cordy around in the TAC Cup, he can play tall but he's a good runner, rebounder and link man. He showed glimpses of that last night, despite his visually unappealing kicking technique, he's an accurate kick. Broke his best for handballs and hit outs. I think this mix of Trengove & Cordy (right now at least) with good team defence is a better mix.

- Dunkley to the guts. Sitting forward and missing easy goals is frustrating for all, especially since late last year he was smshing it as a midfielder. Last night he broke his AFL FP's career best playing in the guts.

- McLean also seemed to spend a bit more time up the ground.

- Bont also seemed to get a bit more forward time, and made his presence felt.

- Opportunity. English & Smith just keep growing week to week. La Young is raw, but there's a lot to like. Not sure I see much in Hayes at this level yet.

So the moves have been good, a lot more conventional in nature, but common sense and good. I think the one last structural change to me is a another KPF to be another target and a tall foil for Naughton. Dickson isn't giving us more than what Schache could, so if Josh can tick Bevo's boxes, a spine of Trengove, Cordy, Bonts, Schache, Naughton (& English) I think gives us great flexibility and structure.

We can't expect Naughton to kick 5 goals every week to win games, that said the entries were better last night. Schache and eventually Boyd will help the forward line. The improved mix in the guts and up the ground will help going ahead. Bevo has been experimenting and the results weren't great, but credit where it's due, making the changes he did got the mix right.

[azabob]

Bailey Smith is the big one. He keeps getting better and better each week.
Now he’s picked up the tempo of the game he looks like he belongs.
95% of supporters had him dropped in round 3 or 4. I was one of them.

[Bulldog4life]

Bailey Smith is the big one. He keeps getting better and better each week.
Now he’s picked up the tempo of the game he looks like he belongs.
95% of supporters had him dropped in round 3 or 4. I was one of them.

I wasn't one. :)