Three things I have learned-round 10 v North Melbourne 2019

[Twodogs]

Its three things today that we want to know. Three things that you have learned when we played the cow fuc... , eerrrrrr, Shinboners, sorry.

[GVGjr]

Bump

[bulldogtragic]

1. Something is wrong. We compete against good sides, and cower to shit teams at our home deck. I don't know what the issue is, but we had a chance to restore honour and play finals. But not.
2. We really refuse to shutdown any opposition player killing us.
3. Caleb Daniel is a star, but his one or two howlers a game can really, really hurt.

[Ghost Dog]

I'm a bit annoyed to post anything of value. But at least I care.

[AndrewP6]

This team can find new ways of disappointing supporters.
Dale, Williams and Lipinski were in the right place at Footscray.

That's it. Sadly no other surprises today.

[AshMac]

1. So tired of these BS 4th quarter fade outs when we have momentum
2. I never complain about umpiring but those two holding the ball “non-calls” 1st and 3rd (Anderson and Pittard I think) qtr need to be addressed with the AFL during the week
3. If we are going to play a non ruckman against one of the leagues best - then shark opponent taps. We seemed to only realise this in the 4th qtr

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

1.Goldstein 57 hitouts to 7 by English was the major difference
2. Apart from JJ and the uncanny Caleb Daniel our smaller players are to slow
3. Terrible use of the bench in the final term after English and both Lloyd were removed together after kicking goals followed by Naughton. Where was the common sense?

[Mantis]

1.Goldstein 57 hitouts to 7 by English was the major difference
2. Apart from JJ and the uncanny Caleb Daniel our smaller players are to slow
3. Terrible use of the bench in the final term after English and both Lloyd were removed together after kicking goals followed by Naughton. Where was the common sense?

We also took off Bont at a crucial time who was killing it in the middle.. sports science and all that.

[Remi Moses]

1. That’s why Williams , Dale and Lipinski are at Footscray ( Dale isn’t up to it)
2. Going on the opposite foot when there’s no need to ( come on Caleb) thought his game was super
3 . Lead up forward and a key backman , and can we draft in some different coaches

[Remi Moses]

We’ve lost to Carlton , Gold Coast and Norf
Simply unacceptable

[bulldogtragic]

We’ve lost to Carlton , Gold Coast and Norf
Simply unacceptable

All at our home ground, and with only minimal injuries. Why?

[Bulldog4life]

All at our home ground, and with only minimal injuries. Why?

Only reason must be we took it for granted we would win. A bad trait to have.

[bulldogtragic]

Only reason must be we took it for granted we would win. A bad trait to have.

At the risk of sounding even more like a two year old. But why?

[Bulldog4life]

At the risk of sounding even more like a two year old. But why?

I was going to ask you the same thing.

[kruder]

1. That’s why Williams , Dale and Lipinski are at Footscray ( Dale isn’t up to it)
2. Going on the opposite foot when there’s no need to ( come on Caleb) thought his game was super
3 . Lead up forward and a key backman , and can we draft in some different coaches

All three should play next week with the chances given to others this year.

The reason we lost that game? Absolutely killed in the clearance and all ground ball, Bevo continuing to experiment in centre clearance, lack of pressure throughout, Bontempelli not playing midfield enough, list is unbalanced playing too many inside mids out of position, our defence continue not to mark the pill/ win a one on one contests, we clearly lack structure ahead of the ball and continue to have to play a midget in the ruck. Oh and I nearly forgot, our Captain is not even VFL standard for the last 2.5 years now.

[bornadog]

We also took off Bont at a crucial time who was killing it in the middle.. sports science and all that.

That was more crucial than the others coming off. Stopped our momentum

[Bulldog4life]

1. Great game from Caleb but still 2 or 3 brain fades a match. The left foot kick was unnecessary.
2. English showed in the years ahead he could be a good forward when playing there.
3. Disappointing game that had to be won for us to play finals.

[Flamethrower]

1. Watching 2 locals teams in a thriller in the WRFL is far more enjoyable than watching the Bulldogs surrender meekly to wooden spoon contenders.
2. Good form in the 2nds does not = good form in the 1sts - in the AFL or local Z Grade cricket or lacrosse.
3. Dane Rampe is a space cadet.

[bulldogtragic]

I was going to ask you the same thing.

I don't know. Maybe that 15 minutes against the Hawks has them believing they only have to play 15 minutes of good footy a week against mid-lower sides. Or, that the people getting big salaries to motivate them are doing a very poor job. Or both. Or neither. But something is really messed up. But we didn't change up our coaching panel and we are apparently re-contracting Bevo a year early despite his team's mental application, motivation and performances being currently unacceptable such that our 22 selected players are picking and choosing which ones to really fight out.

[Bulldog4life]

I don't know. Maybe that 15 minutes against the Hawks has them believing they only have to play 15 minutes of good footy a week against mid-lower sides. Or, that the people getting big salaries to motivate them are doing a very poor job. Or both. Or neither. But something is really messed up. But we didn't change up our coaching panel and we are apparently re-contracting Bevo a year early despite his team's mental application, motivation and performances being currently unacceptable such that our 22 selected players are picking and choosing which ones to really fight out.

I remember Bevo did say that the win against Hawks will do wonders for the player's confidence knowing they are never out of it. Maybe they think that all the time which means they can go into relax mode.

[Twice Bitten]

This team can find new ways of disappointing supporters.
Dale, Williams and Lipinski were in the right place at Footscray.

That's it. Sadly no other surprises today.

Bit harsh on Lipinski - I thought he showed poise and good delivery several times in a 23 possession game.

[KT31]

1.I miss the days when we just beat bottom sides and regretted not putting them away.

2. If Wood was any sort of Captain, he would know it was time to hand the reins over to Bonts straight away.

3. A sacked Coach can out coach a safe Coach, I rate him but I still would be waiting until the end of the season before we extend Bevo's contract.

4.And because I learnt this last week, you can apparently just throw the ball whilst being tackled and that's okay.

[The Bulldogs Bite]

At the risk of sounding even more like a two year old. But why?

Or we are a very average side?

Didn’t see today but I don’t rate us.

We have some talent ie Bont, Naughton, Caleb etc but so does every other list. We have far too many holes and we can’t blame this year on injuries - we’ve had none.

[Eastdog]

I remember Bevo did say that the win against Hawks will do wonders for the player's confidence knowing they are never out of it. Maybe they think that all the time which means they can go into relax mode.

Not a good way to be. Need to be roaring to go right from the start in games.

[Bumper Bulldogs]

1. We have the slowest coaching staff that refuse to make changes and address problems

2. We need a forwards ciach and a goal kicking coach

3. We need to sort out why we are complacent and don’t want to crack in for long parts of the game. We have lost a game plan and lost the buy in from the playing group.

[Twodogs]

We can't afford to rock up and start playing 25 minutes after the opposition week after week
2. We fall over a lot.
3 our skills are getting better theeyare nothing to write he about but better

[Sedat]

English is not a ruckman. He's a very tall midfield utility.

He never showed much ruck craft as a junior - he won't simply morph into Simon Madden. I like English a lot but a first ruck he aint, and I doubt he'll ever be.

[chef]

1. We are the farmers
2. I must be getting old as i told a lady to watch her language in front of another couples kids.
3. We made a huge mistake getting rid of Roughead and/or not using him properly.

[Ozza]

We also took off Bont at a crucial time who was killing it in the middle.. sports science and all that.

We kick 4 in a row to start the quarter and Bont, who was killing them comes off - at the same time as English and Lloyd - who had BOTH just kicked two goals each. Are you f&^%$$ng kidding me!!!??? Why does English need to come off at all?? Ben Brown played full forward today, ran 16.1 kms and played 100% game time. Why are we taking blokes off that are on fire when we've finally got on top?

Add to that - we FINALLY got on top in the middle because we had Libba and Bont in there - and at the same stoppage where the three players mentioned above came off - Libba is inexplicably half forward AGAIN.

The absolute arrogance and coaching hubris is out of control. And we all knew today was going to pan out like this when Bevo announces in the presser that Lipinski and others will be getting a run as inside mids. So forward of the ball we have Libba (why?) and Bont forward most of the game on account of Gowers being dropped and us being uncompetitive in the air against tall defenders otherwise - so it was a given he goes forward.

Centre stoppage after centre stoppage of English getting worked by Goldstein, and Bevo simply HOPING that Bailey Smith in his 10th game, Dunks and Lipinski are going to shark Goldstein's taps better than Cunnington, Higgins and co.

North have pretty much two things they can do. Centre stoppages, and take intercept marks. And we get beaten by the things we already knew. 4-6 after 10 - and we've pissed 3 games down the drain due to arrogance. Second half of the year fixture looks horrendous, so book your september holidays folks.

[Ozza]

English is not a ruckman. He's a very tall midfield utility.

He never showed much ruck craft as a junior - he won't simply morph into Simon Madden. I like English a lot but a first ruck he aint, and I doubt he'll ever be.

Disagree completely. He got walloped today, but he will be a good ruckman.

[Bulldog4life]

1. We are the farmers
2. I must be getting old as i told a lady to watch her language in front of another couples kids.
3. We made a huge mistake getting rid of Roughead and/or not using him properly.

Who did she barrack for Chef?

[Remi Moses]

Probably a bit tough on the three, but coming in and making minimal impact is pretty disappointing.
Agree we got killed in ground ball gets and around the contest

[Happy Days]

1. Trengove in the ruck makes us more likely to win games right now than English in the ruck. He's been completely destroyed against the elite rucks he's played against this year and even though he's got the talent to play at the level, I'm not sure its as a ruckman.

2. Really weird how we seem to lack a second forward target when we waste Bont there but don't struggle to score when he plays in the middle.

3. We don't know how to play when we think we should win. Our ball use was pretty arrogant for most of this game.

[comrade]

I’ve been calling for Bont to play more forward to provide another option beyond Naughton, but it’s obvious he’s too valuable in the middle. Without him, our mids are far too one paced and lack elite skills (Smith the exception).

[bornadog]

I’ve been calling for Bont to play more forward to provide another option beyond Naughton, but it’s obvious he’s too valuable in the middle. Without him, our mids are far too one paced and lack elite skills (Smith the exception).

I thought Libba was excellent today, another one wasted in the forward line

[Mofra]

1. We lined up in our F50 with Naughton, Suckling, Wallis, Libba, Richards and Lloyd to start the game.
3 kids developed as defenders, 2 inside mids and one genuine forward who spent most of last year playing VFL. We were always going to struggle to kick a winning score.

2. English isn't ready... but why did we ruck Cordy instead of Trengove? I'm a huge Cordy fan and thought he battled well but it was a strange one.

3. 3 losses against the bottom 3 sides - we are a very immature side.

[Yankee Hotel Foxtrot]

1. Bevo bemoan's our lack of KP size players. Meanwhile Nathan Buckley is extracting a very good season from Jordan Roughead......
2. We are bottom 4. When you lose to Gold Coast, Carlton and North at home, that signifies a bottom 4 season.
3. As much as I'm angry right now, and prone to flailing at easy targets, I think- given this season is gonski- we need to show the faith in the 4 blokes promoted this week. We need to find out if Bailey Dale, Bailey Williams, Patricke Lipinski and Tim English are going to be a part of our future.

[Mofra]

3. As much as I'm angry right now, and prone to flailing at easy targets, I think- given this season is gonski- we need to show the faith in the 4 blokes promoted this week. We need to find out if Bailey Dale, Bailey Williams, Patricke Lipinski and Tim English are going to be a part of our future.
I agree. Sounds like only inside mid types put their hands up for Footscray anyway.

English showed real promise forward.

[chef]

Who did she barrack for Chef?

Us. My 15 year old didnt care but there was a couple with 4 under 10 who probably didnt need their kids hearing stuff like that.

Stay at home of you want to swear out loud.

[ratsmac]

Us. My 15 year old didnt care but there was a couple with 4 under 10 who probably didnt need their kids hearing stuff like that.

Stay at home of you want to swear out loud.
I was guilty of letting a couple fly yesterday after the non holding the ball calls yesterday. Not proud of it but it felt so good.

[Sedat]

Disagree completely. He got walloped today, but he will be a good ruckman.
English is 205cms and is not a skinny strapling anymore, and yet he is utterly non-competitive against shorter ruckmen who have better ruck techniques. And he was never a good ruck stoppage player as a junior. I just can't see his ruck craft at stoppages imorpving to anything mkre than adequate, which is whatbwe are already getting from Trengove.

Around the ground is a different story - English has fantastic attributes and really gets involved in transition of the ball, and will only get better. But in terms of pure ruck craft, i have my doubts.

[Twodogs]

Us. My 15 year old didnt care but there was a couple with 4 under 10 who probably didnt need their kids hearing stuff like that.

Stay at home of you want to swear out loud.

That reminds me of the day that I took my son to North Port oval to see Port Melbourne play. We are sitting on the fence when the bloke next to him let fly with a string of invective advice for the umpire. Harvey would have been all of 3 or 4 years old and he turns to me with a really shocked look on his face and says "Dad, that man said F@#$." just as the bloke starts up and drops the magic word again, without flinching Harvey added "Twice!"

[westbulldog]

English is 205cms and is not a skinny strapling anymore, and yet he is utterly non-competitive against shorter ruckmen who have better ruck techniques. And he was never a good ruck stoppage player as a junior. I just can't see his ruck craft at stoppages imorpving to anything mkre than adequate, which is whatbwe are already getting from Trengove.

Around the ground is a different story - English has fantastic attributes and really gets involved in transition of the ball, and will only get better. But in terms of pure ruck craft, i have my doubts.

Well what is senior coach Steven King (240 games as a ruckman) doing to help Tim ? This is a prime example imo of why we need to overhaul the coaching staff and probably the MC.

[Ozza]

Of his recent games, English played well v Lobb/Freo, v Nankervis/Rich, and probably broke square with Kreuzer and was reasonable on a dirty day for us. He's been belted up by Grundy and Goldstein - who are elite ruckman. Thats just the reality of a young ruckman - that the best opponents get a hold of you. I'm not worried about English whatsoever. 21 years and heaps of development to go, before we consider the temptation to crowbar him into another role (which we love to do!). Its quite refreshing to have a ruckman that actually marks the ball around the ground.

[DOG GOD]

1. I Can’t believe I paid out about $400 for flights, accommodation and ticket from Tassie to watch that drivel.
2. We have too many passengers at the moment. If it wasn’t for Bont and Daniel, we’d be sitting on the bottom of the ladder
3. We are in for a world of hurt for the next 2-3 years.

[Bulldog4life]

1. Bevo bemoan's our lack of KP size players. Meanwhile Nathan Buckley is extracting a very good season from Jordan Roughead......
2. We are bottom 4. When you lose to Gold Coast, Carlton and North at home, that signifies a bottom 4 season.
3. As much as I'm angry right now, and prone to flailing at easy targets, I think- given this season is gonski- we need to show the faith in the 4 blokes promoted this week. We need to find out if Bailey Dale, Bailey Williams, Patricke Lipinski and Tim English are going to be a part of our future.

There is no doubt Tim will be a huge part of our future.

[Bulldog4life]

Us. My 15 year old didnt care but there was a couple with 4 under 10 who probably didnt need their kids hearing stuff like that.

Stay at home of you want to swear out loud.

Agree. You can swear as loud as you like at the tv.

[macca]

1. Bevo bemoan's our lack of KP size players. Meanwhile Nathan Buckley is extracting a very good season from Jordan Roughead......
2. We are bottom 4. When you lose to Gold Coast, Carlton and North at home, that signifies a bottom 4 season.
3. As much as I'm angry right now, and prone to flailing at easy targets, I think- given this season is gonski- we need to show the faith in the 4 blokes promoted this week. We need to find out if Bailey Dale, Bailey Williams, Patricke Lipinski and Tim English are going to be a part of our future.
Roughead is not being asked to play multiple positions . His managed 10 games this year , we struggled to get him on the park. Why can’t the coaches just accept some players cannot play in another position and focus on their strengths? Just because his the one of the tallest player was on our list doesn’t mean he can ruck all day and expect to be durable .
Hardwick came out last week and admitted he misunderstood the value of Letting ELLIS Play to his strengths ( 33 possessions ).

https://amp.theage.com.au/sport/afl/hardwick-admits-he-only-has-himself-to-blame-in-underestimating-ellis-20190519-p51p2k.html

[chef]

Agree. You can swear as loud as you like at the tv.

Yep. As i said to my wife if im not allowed to swear out loud no one is.

[dadsgirl16]

Kid next to me came with his grandma and in the final quarter let’s fly with GET STUFFED North Melbourne!
She was mortified.. I had to hide my laughter

[Sedat]

Of his recent games, English played well v Lobb/Freo, v Nankervis/Rich, and probably broke square with Kreuzer and was reasonable on a dirty day for us. He's been belted up by Grundy and Goldstein - who are elite ruckman. Thats just the reality of a young ruckman - that the best opponents get a hold of you. I'm not worried about English whatsoever. 21 years and heaps of development to go, before we consider the temptation to crowbar him into another role (which we love to do!). Its quite refreshing to have a ruckman that actually marks the ball around the ground.
He still has time on his side but I haven't seen any noticable improvement in his ruck stoppage work at all. I'm a huge English fan but rucking him 80% of the time is really hurting us at the moment. I hope the investment pays off.

[bornadog]

He still has time on his side but I haven't seen any noticable improvement in his ruck stoppage work at all. I'm a huge English fan but rucking him 80% of the time is really hurting us at the moment. I hope the investment pays off.

We stuffed up yesterday because ideally Trengove should have gone into the ruck, but that left us with no one to play on Brown. Lew Young could have helped out in the backline and Cordy would have stayed there. We had a 7 game tall with 3 goals, abit like last week with Fort.

[jeemak]

Of his recent games, English played well v Lobb/Freo, v Nankervis/Rich, and probably broke square with Kreuzer and was reasonable on a dirty day for us. He's been belted up by Grundy and Goldstein - who are elite ruckman. Thats just the reality of a young ruckman - that the best opponents get a hold of you. I'm not worried about English whatsoever. 21 years and heaps of development to go, before we consider the temptation to crowbar him into another role (which we love to do!). Its quite refreshing to have a ruckman that actually marks the ball around the ground.

It takes a touch more than 17 senior games to develop a ruck craft, and I agree he's acquitted himself well in games this year irrespective of being towelled up by a couple of elite opponents.

That he kicked a couple of goals yesterday was really promising, a ruck who can go forward and be effective is a huge asset to the team.

[Happy Days]

He still has time on his side but I haven't seen any noticable improvement in his ruck stoppage work at all. I'm a huge English fan but rucking him 80% of the time is really hurting us at the moment. I hope the investment pays off.

Reckon it's time for an extended run at CHF? I do.

As evidenced yesterday Zaine is a legitimately better ruckman at the moment. It often gets overlooked but ruckwork is HARD and not something you are automatically going to be good at just because of height alone.

[Bullies]

It takes a touch more than 17 senior games to develop a ruck craft, and I agree he's acquitted himself well in games this year irrespective of being towelled up by a couple of elite opponents.

That he kicked a couple of goals yesterday was really promising, a ruck who can go forward and be effective is a huge asset to the team. Totally agree. Ask Collingwood supporters how Grundy was going at the same time.

[Twodogs]

Totally agree. Ask Collingwood supporters how Grundy was going at the same time.

Have a listen to Simon Madden on This Sporting Life with Peter Donegan. He said he knew he was a good ruckman but was constantly toweled up by old hack ruckmen and it wasn't until Sheedy got Sam Newman in (who Madden said he learned more from than anyone else) to teach him the craft that he was confident that he had the strength and mongrel in him to take the next step. Madden said the sessions with Newman were hell-just him and Sam and the ball and Sam would fly into him from all angles and with all parts of his body until Madden learned how to cope with it. Only then did Madden say that he thought he could be an effective AFL ruckman and that was after 100+ games

[whythelongface]

1. I really hate games like that. We simply let the opposition dictate terms and we have to play catch up.

2. We need Trengove to assist in the ruck with English (Cordy did a fine job but also needs to play defensive). We need Lewis Young to step up.

3. Our Ins struggled. Was it the pace of the game? Are they not up to it in general? Do we continue to see how they perform next week? (apart from English) I have had high hopes for Dale but he has not come close to delivering on some of his promise.

[Twodogs]

1/ Brad Scott is a bigger dickhead than I ever thought he was. He attacked David King as he came off the ground at 3/4 time! What's going on there?

[bulldogtragic]

1/ Brad Scott is a bigger dickhead than I ever thought he was. He attacked David King as he came off the ground at 3/4 time! What's going on there?

Gave him a dodgy rising star 'tip' last year.

[Twodogs]

Gave him a dodgy rising star 'tip' last year.

I wonder who will be remembered and lionised in the future by North fans? The dual premiership half back who would happily lay down his life for the blue and white or the coach who had a 50% win rate and left them in an absolute rabble?


I'm guessing it will be David King.

[Nuggety Back Pocket]

It takes a touch more than 17 senior games to develop a ruck craft, and I agree he's acquitted himself well in games this year irrespective of being towelled up by a couple of elite opponents.

That he kicked a couple of goals yesterday was really promising, a ruck who can go forward and be effective is a huge asset to the team.
English showed enough yesterday to suggest he may well end up as a key forward and used as a second string ruck man to a Lew Young. If Schache was to come good it would then allow Naughton to become the key defender where he probably is best suited. This would then lead to the two key forwards and backs that we have been searching for all year

[Ozza]

Reckon it's time for an extended run at CHF? I do.

As evidenced yesterday Zaine is a legitimately better ruckman at the moment. It often gets overlooked but ruckwork is HARD and not something you are automatically going to be good at just because of height alone.

Yes, by all means lets not have any patience with a young player in their current role - and rush them into an unfamiliar role immediately. It has worked so well in the past.

[MrMahatma]

Why are people turning on English?

People complain we don’t play guys in their position, and that Schache should be given the chance to develop on the seniors... but how we should move English?

Crazy days.

[mjp]

English showed enough yesterday to suggest he may well end up as a key forward and used as a second string ruck man to a Lew Young. If Schache was to come good it would then allow Naughton to become the key defender where he probably is best suited. This would then lead to the two key forwards and backs that we have been searching for all year

It shouldn't but this genuinely made me laugh out loud. I am just looking forward a few weeks to the reaction on here where the boys run out, Cordy is in the ruck, English at CHF, and Schache at CHB...

English did show a bit - just like he did in Ballarat vs GC last year, but there is a bit of a difference between a bit of pinch hitting up forward and playing consistent minutes up there. Port have been really battling to get the balance right with Ryder and Lycett, both of whom have had far better outings as permanent forwards than Tim did in 'spot time' yesterday.

Could he go forward and sneak one or two every few weeks? Sure. Will we get reliable service from him as a forward? Well, history says we wont - big ruckman up forward often LOOK dangerous but rarely ARE dangerous...

[Happy Days]

Yes, by all means lets not have any patience with a young player in their current role - and rush them into an unfamiliar role immediately. It has worked so well in the past.

You mean like with Aaron Naughton?

[Mofra]

Could he go forward and sneak one or two every few weeks? Sure. Will we get reliable service from him as a forward? Well, history says we wont - big ruckman up forward often LOOK dangerous but rarely ARE dangerous...
... and no team ever won the flag from 7th ;)

I'm not sure anyone advocating English play mostly forward for the next week or month is advocating a permanent move, but we desperately need a second tall forward now and someone who can play second ruck.

English spending time forward will at least occupy McGovern who will destroy any forwardline with only a single KPF, have English develop an important part of his game as most no 1 rucks still pinch hit forward at times, and allow him ruck minutes each quarter against AFL standard ruck opponents so his ruck development isn't neglected.
I can see the logic of it in the short term.